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Is ready. Its a Quoth map pack with some added features, only playable in its own engines.


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This is a hugely impressive pack. It has taken Quake into a whole new level of size and hardcore attrition gameplay.

Some of it I didn't like, a lot of it I did. I do think my attempts to get through the maps first go were actually the wrong thing to do - it was a pretty gruelling challenge. Playing a map in "episodic" stages was more fun and would have allowed me to appreciate the sheer scope more - this worked for WarpC, although I still maintain that's the best for objective factors.

However even though I found some of it gruelling, this pack has certainly been prominent in my mind in the last couple of weeks - it has got me quite addicted in fact. That in itself is a good feat for a map release!

Well done ijed, a hell of a way to make your mark. 
Thanks Shambler 
And the best way to play it is piecemeal, at first at least. For second runthroughs try the extra game mode options - I still haven't played it in coop modes myself; trying to get a group of four together, but not easy in Quake. 
...for those of whom it might be of interest, here's the high spec stereo version of the track I made to accompany 'warpe'. 
...worst English sentence ever. Sorry for butchering the language. 
256 Kbps! 
high spec stereo version of the track I made

Hey! warpe soundtrack is way cool! Thanks for this!
Any other music files of yours accessible out there? 
Distrans - I called it starscream inside the pack's readme because of the email conversation . . .

Thanks for this stereo version - goes in the playlist :) 
...only the Travail soundtrack (in terms of ambient) so far. That should become very useful on Monday or Tuesday of next week.

There's other bits and bobs (some pop, rock and even country) but nothing I'd recommend. When the current Folk Noir project gets some stuff together, I'll point you at it.

ijed: I thought about it, but out of deference to tronyn I decided to go with warpe-dis :) 
. . . 
So Travail is out next week? Nice.

Also, never heard of Tronyn's Starscream map - Ethereal Hell says it was part of the Coagula contest . . . have to play. 
Star Scream is a great name for a map. 
the Travail soundtrack

Yeaaah. I didn't miss this release some months ago, but I tried not to spoil my pleasure and kept it fresh for the - now soon to be released :P - Travail mission. (Once you've seen a good movie or played a great game, listen to its related soundtrack is such a compelling and addictive memory trigger!)
...Although my Travail soundtrack CD is burnt ready yet! 
Just Played This. 
my opinions..

start map. very nice, probably the most brutal nightmare entrance i've ever encountered! not that i went for it, once i'd found it i backtracked & went to the normal one instead =) solid design here though

warpa. wasn't too keen on this, mainly because of the snowy textures, imo quake doesn't handle them that well. the designs were pretty plain also, although i did like the end room. gameplay was so-so, got rather annoyed at the repetitive shambler ambushes. the exit was neat =)

warpb. wowow, fantastic! best new map i've played since marcher fortress. the scale & layout were both tops, with really neat architecture & great use of curves.. the end arena being the highlight. gameplay was also spot on, never once felt too crowded despite the huge monster count, and managed to stay varied with a few decent setpieces. the music & the fog really added to the atmosphere, too. ended up finishing in 76:14, somehow with only 397/427 kills, despite killing everything i came across. only found 2 secrets =(

warpc. also awesome, although not quite as consistent as the previous map.. it had some annoying parts, like the purification chamber (just seemed like lots of excessive running around) and the massive curved underground catacomb section towards the end (where you had to push three buttons & fight shitloads of droles.. got tiring), but plenty of good parts too, like the gk area, underground lava cave, final arena & library sections. overall i think the variety works in favour ; it felt more like an episode rather than just a big level the way warpb did. very epic.. finished in 92:48 with 5 secrets, 382/399 kills

warpd. considering the quality of the first two maps, this was a massive letdown =( i hated it. thought it looked really bland & far too 'right angled' with lots of samey looking sections & without much in the way of interesting/pretty architecture. the layout also seemed alot simpler & 2d, and the gameplay was FAR too repetitive; playing it felt more of a chore than an enjoyment, especially in the later stages. i think the main problem was it was just too damn big given the lack of variety, and went on for too long. in addition, the atmosphere from the two previous maps just seemed absent; maybe it was the bland lighting, change of mood in the soundtrack or the bright skybox.. but i really couldn't get into it. the gore sections didn't seem to integrate that well either, they just contributed to the randomness of the design. forgot to screenshot my exit stats after finishing but my time was around 82 mins, a good 10 mins or so less than warpc but it felt an eternity longer

warpe. better.. although some of the design work looked a bit messy and the lighting seemed to lack contrast on some of the more open sections. the vertical aspect was neat though; the gaunts were really effective as a result. the droles/vores/shamblers got a bit boring to fight though, since it was just standard ducking/shooting for most of the map, in a fairly linear fashion. the end battle i'm in two minds on... whilst it was well engineered, the only way i could beat it was by polishing off all the monsters before the quad ran out; which resulted in short crazy bursts of gameplay with lots of retry attempts.. when ultimately i'd have preferred a longer, more epic battle, with more chance of surviving on the first/second attempt

on the whole, i'd have to say kudos for coming out with something this size all by yourself, that must be one hell of a task. even if warpd was completely left out it would still be an epic episode, and i'd have probably rated it alot higher. still either way it's definitely inspired me & hopefully will serve as some sort of a milestone in q1, pushing the limits the way the the classics (mexx9, zer, insomnia etc) did. i look forward to your future projects, ijed! 
Cheers Rj 
warpa and warpd are the weakest in the pack - and the last ones finsihed, they should have been more detailed.

Warpc is the map I like the least (horror) its built from scraps, more or less, even though all the scraps were built for warpc. It was assembled from multiple files, which is why its so disparate.

Warpb is easily my favourite map of the pack, even though its very sectional, which is belaboured by the scale of the environment.

warpe and s were pretty much fun stuff to build, even though the gameplay is fairly flat. I was stuck on the final battle of warpe because what I wanted to do wouldn't work since monsters cannot destroy scenery even by accident.

So I went guns blazing - maybe its a bit tedious to do the constant quickloads but its also a scraping through by the skin of your teeth feeling that gives a good sense of accomplishment.

Glad you liked.

I'm messing with a couple of maps at the moment, waiting for one to catch my attention enough for me to finish it. 
Finally Finished ... 
So, it took a while to finish the full pack, and I do not have more to say than others: what a pack ! These levels are really really big, and each needs hours to close it with 100%...
Nice job, I'm just curious to see the next one ;)
Keep it up ! 
I played it whole night, still stopped at warpd because I need to sleep sometimes =)

A great pack. Interesting gameplay, good design, large scale (which I liked the most). great job! But spawns were annoying. I kept walking with GL looking around the corners for spawns and tried to kill them before they begin to jump. Also I didn't like those ambushes of dogs/fiends behind you, but then got kinda used to them.
Good use of dogs. It seems like most of people forgot that these monsters exist in the quake universe. Good traps but you could have done a little more them in maps of such scale.

Well, it seems that mappers can simply use aguire's engine for their maps and forget about marksurfaces, clipnodes, edicts and other limits and make maps of giant scale with tons of monsters. Am I not right?

ps gonna finish this mod tonight 
Glad You Liked 
The traps are a bit lame, I admit. There should have been more that involved the whole environment, with moving floors, walls etc. As complex as it gets is warpd with multiple laser shooters, but that's it.

I tried to keep the spawns natural, as if the enemies have entered the map from somewhere else and only just caught up to you, but that's not always as is in many parts.

AguirRe's engines are great. 
AguirRe's Engines 
only run on Windows. I hacked my Proquake so I could at least run TPOF (static entitities) and warpa, but warpb/c still crash it. I don't know exactly which limits I'd have to raise and where to look in the code. I just raised max_static_entities in one of the header files. Seems to solve _that_ problem.

Anyway Ijed said from the start that it needed its own engines so that's OK. It's his good right.

warpa was very much like Doom 2. The shambler attack with the screenshake and breaking walls was cool. Good effects Ijed :-)

I hope that Baker's Proquake will have some limits raised because that will run on Unix at least, don't know about MacOS though. Mac Quakers are probably screwed from the start.

Running stuff in an emulator like Wine is obviously "suboptimal."

Don't take this as criticism Ijed, it's just general ranting. Your maps are cool. 
I realised from the start I'd be cutting down on those who would be able to play the maps, but decided to go ahead and really break the limits rather than just tip them.

Basicly for the big three you need all limits raised; marksurfaces, entities, static entities etc. Warpd runs a bit lighter, but not much. 
I hope that Baker's Proquake will have some limits raised

When I start playing around on my Linux machine to compile that engine project I will also see if I can create a Linux versions of aguirRe's engines.

That isn't going to be immediate, but I personally don't know of anything that should hold back a Linux build for aguirRe's engine. 
I'm able to do the required hacking I guess; I may try to screw around a bit more.

Baker, AguirRe's winquake failed to build last time I tried. You're doubtlessly more familiar with the code than I am, so if you can do that it would be so much appreciated.

I feel bad doing the lobbying, but I suspect there must be more people like me out there. :/ the silent ones. 
And Baker 
Your Proquake development is the best thing to hit Linux Netquake since I don't know when. Thank. you. 
I badly want aguirRe's engine for Linux! 
While On The Subject 
are there a few extra steps needed to build WinQuake in XP? With Windows 98/ME, you simply had to have Visual C++ and Masm installed, you then built the Masm2Gasm executable from the Quake source and things were fine, but it is not such an easy compilation in XP as I've recently discovered. 
this should be moved to another thread, but all my tools/engines are built in XP Home. There are no special problems, actually I'd expect it to be a lot more issues in Win9x. 
It Struck Me Last Night That... 
...the proximity mine launcher from SoA would've actually been a useful SP weapon in this pack. In fact these might be the only types of SP levels where the prox launcher is more than just a gimmick. 
With the Nehahra roaming monster AI - not just the teleporting, but the wandering about as well. 
Oh My Fucking God 
(I installed Ubuntu on my MacBook and am playing with Wine, nicely obscure I think)

These maps are blowing my mind :-) It's mainly the size, I think, they're well constructed and creepy and all, but there have been well built creepy maps before -- just not ones where one of the maps of the pack took me 80 minutes of playing on skill 0... It feels like you could have fit all of the original id maps inside some of the rooms of warpb.

It's actually fairly easy on skill 0 if you're just a bit cautious. Masses of ammo, plenty of health. Maybe I should have played on skill 1, but it's ok with me so far.

Congratulation, ijed. If only you could travel back in time and show this to Carmack, Romero et al. as Quake was being released.

I'm not even finished yet... 
Runs On Wine? 
Hm, thought it was out of the question.

Glad you like the maps - I still get the odd email saying thanks, so its nice to know all that work went somewhere. 
Yeah, Wine Works 
Performance is a bit middling, but it's only a intel integrated gfx card, and it crashes every now and again, but it works pretty well. I was surprised! 
I closed off alot of people from playing the pack by not cutting the levels into chunks, but it wasn't the direction I wanted to go in. Baker's made an EZ installer available over on QuakeOne which makes it a bit simpler for those who haven't played the game for years.

I'm working on an episode 3 remake in Quoth atm, alot smaller in specific map size and much more fun to do now that I've stopped remapping the originals. I did have fun making warp, but the sheer size made it very unweildy for testing or trying out ideas on the fly. 
Yep, AguirRe's engines generally run in wine, but the price is the same as with other emulators. Maps run dog-slow, and there might be any number of issues (sound etc.)

Might be bearable for small maps, but we're talking big-ass maps here otherwise there would be no need for special engines. So the slowness adds up, part coming from using an emulator, and part just coming from very big maps.

I'd estimate that most Wine apps only perform at 70% native speed, plus the usual problems. And I'm not alone there.


And this is _not_ a complaint. Just the facts. (disclaimer ;-D) 
I played Warpspasm with wine&glquake too and the only issue were sudden random sound screw-ups. Speed is not an issue, actually some games are said to run faster with wine than in Windows. What you saying are no facts but FUD about wine. It's not an emulator by the way... 
Running Warp In Linux 
Unsure if anyone already gave this as an option, but if you want to run Warpspasm under Linux, you can use the DarkPlaces engine, which somewhat recently got support for Warpspasm. 
...and running warp in DarkPlaces under Windows should work just as well, if you dig that flavor ;) (haven't tried yet, other than watching the startdemos, which run fine) 
Huh, Didn't Know That 
Have to give it a look. 
It's not a myth. It's my experience, which is shared by a (rather large) number of other people. I have run quite a lot of popular Windows games under Wine, and they are all slower compared to Windows (I used to have Windows installed as a dual-boot option) and often have additional issues, the most prominent one being sound. And Wine is an emulator for all practical purposes (I know the story about why it's technically not an emulator etc.)

Of course the Wine website says it's a myth. That's because the speed issue has probably been the major negative remark about wine in the past. If my product had all kinds of issues, I would do exactly that (call it a myth.) There are massive commercial interests behind Wine (Codeweavers, Windows software vendors.)

You can go to any linux distro's user forum and search for "wine bugs/problem/slow/issue" and you'll find soon enough these are no myths. You can do the same in the Wine bugzilla and you'll find even more interesting things.

With faster hardware and more RAM becoming available, people don't notice it as much today. That's all.

Sure Wine has its place, but for FPS-critical or time-intensive applications, it doesn't seem very reasonable to rely on it when you can run the same app natively.

Can't we leave it at that? I already said I wasn't complaining... and that's true. I am beginning to think the whole discussion is better avoided here.


FUD is pretty nasty, I can't see why you used that. I was just relating my experience. 
I don't want to totally derail this, but the Wine not-an-emulator speed question is interesting.

Given a program like glquake or another quake engine, there are relatively few windows API calls. Most of the code is internal algorithms made up of machine instructions which should run the same speed given the same CPU. However, what about the video drivers? Since I assume your glquake-on-wine has to link to linux video drivers, perhaps those drivers are not as good as the windows drivers for the same graphics card? 
I Remember 
fuhquake-sw precompiled binary with self compiled svgalib was perhaps up to 10% faster in old red hat linux back in 2002 than in windows.

But practically everything else like web browsing was slower in linux. :) 
Wine Is Not A Goddamn Emulator 
because it just isn't.

I agree with metlslime, I bet for quake performance comes down to graphics card performance and so driver issues. My MacBook has integrated intel graphics which isn't the hottest performing setup ever but does have good linux drivers (one of the reasons I didn't get the Pro, in fact) and my nehwarp.exe performance is fine (~70 fps timedemo-ing the included warp demos). I don't have Windows installed to compare it with that. 
What hardware of the MacBook Pro isn't supported? Not that I would buy a powerbook again, anyway; just curious. 
A Friend Of Mine 
used to play WOW with wine 
They have nvidia graphics cards, which means you're either stuck with a buggy unreliable undebuggable but reasonably performant binary blob from nvidia or a slow-ass missing-features but probably-working open source driver.

I don't know how well wifi works either, but that's spotty enough on the macbooks already. 
Test Your Level... 
No he tenido la dichosa oportunidad de probar tu design, un dia after the Work on the office we can play it!!! OK???
Congratulations for your passion for design.. muahaha


PD. Callate! 
Aqui se habla ingles... entiendes ?

I Quit 
I have to put this aside for awhile or my landlord will give me the boot. I've been yelling all week. Made it finally to the 4th map but I'm tired of sucking void. Am I the only knucklehead that decided to start out on hard? Ugh.

P.S. Thank you for your work. 
No Problem 
Thanks for playing 
Try The New 
coop modes, that's what they're there for ... 
No One To Coop With 
My gf usually leaves the room when I quake. 
You don't necessarily need another person to play coop mode. 
Coop Modes 
Read the readme - they just make it either tougher or easier depending on which mode you select. I think one for example 'halves all enemies health' or suchlike. Makes it a bit more fun if too tough!! 
Played through this mother of massiveness the past 3 days once again. This captures the weirdness of Quake so well. It feels so different from the "usual 'unimaginative' polished and slick" maps. To me the map Sealed City (warpc) is a great example how a modern Quake could be like. And I just love the Doom-ish parts in it.
Your imagination (and execution of it) is simply jaw-dropping. 
Post #232 
That's quite a number.

Thanks Spirit, I think I've superseded this in my current project, though there's a long way to go yet. 
ijed rockzzzz :)

tchak if i ever finish will be a massive map to... 
The new one is getting even evil-er. And I'm finally getting somewhere with this qc malarky.

Btw, warpc was, for me, the worst map of the pack - I had to completely revamp whole areas multiple times and it was basically rebuilt from the 'medieval city' and 'babylonian garden' maps. The second one having died a death after I got sick of bright green grass and dodgy statues.

So I salvaged some of the subterranian parts of it for warpc. 
Can't Wait To See Your New Release Ijed! 
and about Warpspasm, one of the things I love it for is the background story. Shame that no one seems to have paid much attention to it, but when I read it for the first time, it's as engrossing as any good novel. 

The new project is going to follow the same storyline as the original Quake, but I'm thinking about filling in the blanks, since the original was just a paragraph. 
what happens in the thirty minutes between receiving the phone call and arriving at the installation? Could be the quake guy gets stuck in traffic, and saves a cat from a house fire. 
are you remaking all 4 eps? I thought it was just ep 3. 
I'm doing ep3, and there's episode one under construction by goldenboy.

Maybe others will get interested enough to undertake an entire episdode. I thought about asking the various authors of the remake challenge maps for permission to use those, but that'd be stepping on maps we already have built in beta form.

I prefer if a single mapper does each episode as well (seven maps). Maybe that's an unrealistic expectation, but time will tell.

As to the storyline, I was thinking of backstory for each level - why it's there, what it is. If the player doesn't want to read it then they're not forced to.

I like depth. 
Well My Map Is Open For Whatever... 
the source is availiable to anyone who wants it, I could expand on it, whatever. Someone else could expand it! Or you could just use it. I could see a quoth2 expanded version. I always thought it would have been cool to have added a large outside are to it - kinda 'surface' type area!. I pictured the exit being able to see up some rocky hill which had the start are visible...

At the mo though (and the reason I haven't done and speedmaps or posted any shots) I am working hard on an episode. Unfortunately it will be a while before anything is revealed because of texturing issues shall we say, and the fact that I will create each map from scratch to completion ONE AT A TIME.

I am locked into it. 
wicked ricky! can't wait!!! give us some screenies when you can :) 
Just reading through all your comments again.

I'm learning alot. 
And So, 
After reading all that again;

I'm a bolshy cunt.

We need two more mappers who have no social life or love for their families.

Mappers who're prepared to do seven maps at a stride. 
Are you looking for .. slaves ... ? 
Funnily Enough. 
Only last night I was looking through a couple of these (for the first time since playing them), running through them on God mode (and I'm quite chuffed with the WarpE_033 I did ;)).

I don't know whether you're a bolshy cunt or not but it reminded me just how brutal, gruelling, massive and impressive these maps are. 
No, the mentally ill. The ones who get enjoyment out of a gruelling slog of mapping, taking place over months.

I don't know about how good these maps were. There's not enough detail - warpd especially should have been alot better made, and I didn't take advantage of everything in warpb or c either. Pure gameplay wise I think they're ok, but the visuals are part of real gameplay. 
The ones who get enjoyment out of a gruelling slog of mapping, taking place over months.

That's what it felt like playing the maps ;)


That's a good assessment of the maps but the sheer size and continual challenge were also very notable in their own right. 
Harsh Assessment 
I personally think this is one of the great packs. 
I would have to dig in the post, but I don't recall if I have commented on Warpspasm, given some earlier PC troubles I came to the mod a bit late. The best compliment i can give it is that is was the Alien Vendetta (the Doom 2 megawad that was even better than Hell Revealed) of Quake mapping. 
Show Me The Monay 
what do you need slaves for ijed? another episode remix? 
So far it's two mappers (me, goldenboy) and Dr Shadowborg and myself coding - with help from other sources as well.

The idea is to recreate the entire game as we'd always wanted it to be, concentrating the Quakiness as it were.

Ideally it should be one mapper per episode, meaning a total of seven maps. It's alot to ask, but we're all prepared to put as much time into it as is necessary - it'd be ready when it's finished ;)

The size of the project so far is alot of monster remixes / modifications, maybe one and a half episodes in various stages of beta and a fair few client enhancments like moving water etc. included as well. 
W A R P S P A S M is a pack we will never forget!!! :)

pure fun ;) 
so hows the remixes going anyway? i hope they are vastly different from the originals, like the first half of speedy's wind tunnels remix.

give us progress reports to keep me excited :D 
But they're all very different indeed. I'm looking at ep3 now and realising in an effort to make each map completely different from the last only one of the seven has lava. For a runic episode that's practically sacralige. 
Is It E3M6? 
Judging both from the screenshots, and the fact that it used lava more menacingly than the other E3 maps...

Looking forward your project, ijed. Warp is one of my all-time favorites and if you say that your E3 remix is even better, then I'll be in heaven :) 
It's a smaller scale of map, but more detailed. It's definitely better though.

There's some screenshots at: 
yeah i think smaller is fine. there's no need to have maps the size of the warp ones. especially if they're remakes of quake maps. i like lava :( 
The lava's making a comeback. I broke the model limts by replacing all lava pits in one map with rotating machinery traps / grinders. Unnecessary, and breaks the map for alot of users. 
Currently Replaying 
Skill 3, coop 1.

Just finished WarpB in 95:59 with nearly 100%: 14/16 secrets, 511/522 kills. One zombie got stuck in the architecture (lucky fucker) and I couldn't get him gibbed no matter what. I also didn't really feel like finding two obscure secrets to shoot down ten more Zombies.

I missed the opportunity of Quad + Trinity like a blind idiot, too.

It was a good challenge. At first it seemed much easier because dying wasn't a concern anymore, but that feeling went away as I delved into the map further and further. Skill 3 might have been a wrong choice, with Shamblers et al being relentless in their attacks, but oh well!

I also found the rune shrine and got to admit, nice tribute :) 
I think I know which zombie got stuck as well - on the slope near where you start, entering the base.

Never remembered to fix it. He can be killed if you wait until you hear is idle and have an explosion in the same spot at the same time.

The Shamblers in the tunnel were a mistake as well - they replaced a Gug once I found his shot pattern (divide in two) meant the player could just back away and never get hit. Really I should have fixed that up to work better, keeping the Gug instead of the Shamby horde. 
Does anybody still have SielWolf's Warp demos? Thx 
Not Me . . . 
Could be they were all lost when the Hub was attacked - and I've since changed hardware. 
You Mean When I Was Too Stupid To Uhm... 
The WarpC and WarpD archives are corrupt.. 
Argh, Bummer 
Then I should quickly add that it was not really a backup but a random folder with Quake files, heh. 
Where's Sielwolf? 
Did he give up gaming? Did I miss something? 
i email him some time ago... he have been very busy... real life eating him alive :)

but he didn�t quit! 
Trinca I Hope 
the real life doesn't eat you too 
that shitty real life i hate it 
hehe spy sorry not to respond your map beta :\ i will try today... sorry my friend but life is eating me alive to!!!

more like my KIDS eat me alive :\

the smaller wakeup a lot at night :( i�m always wasted at 21:30 :\

but i will reply this week to you my friend! 
Offtop Here 
trinca. i wish i could have a family/kids, but after my wife is left me... you the happiest guy. GL. 
Offtopic Again 
get another one ;)

at least u can change the menu :)

go for it now!!! 
Warpc & Warpd Demos 
I've got both of these. Willem, could you delete the 2 broken archives from Quaketastic? (that would be warpc_sw62.rar and warpd_sw59.rar). I'll then up my copies.

BTW, I'm looking for sielwolf's demo of Five Rivers Land (it was called Anyone? 
I Am Creepy 
jdhack, can you email the demos to me at Thx 
Demos Upped 
They're a bit big for email, so I converted them to zips and put them on Quaketastic:

And thx Spirit - non-corrupt and everything! :) 
Now that there is a Fitz SDL 0.85 for OS X and Linux, I looked forward to playing Warpspasm on my Mac (and to future 2 player coop with my PC and Mac using Fitz 085).

I know there isn't an easy way to address this, but what would be great is if somehow the demos could play in FitzQuake 0.85

So I'm just making this a note for future reference as I consider Nehahra, Travail and Warpspasm sort of the big 3 Quake mods that stand in their own special league. 
Big, uh, bigup. Thanks. 
I think that Sielwolf's demos are lost, unless anyone has them backed up - the fall of the Hub.

I vaguely remember that someone did, but then again I'm half cut. 
adding client-side support for other protocols is one of the things on my list for a future version. Aguirre's protocols and the nehahra protocol are fairly similar to the standard quake protocol and so supporting them should be possible. 
Thinking On 
This was a nice learning curve. It wasn't pretty or special, but it got across an idea.

On to RQ;

We really need talented, creative people who are, most importantly, dedicated.

The project is already something that knocks the shit out of any industry effort, and we're not even half-way.

We need you, mother funcers. I wouldn't want this to be a 'five guys / gals made a great partial once'.

Yeah, I'm banging the drum, and won't stop until it's finished.

The game you love = better.

Help us.

The thing we really need is opinionated cunts, and I know you're all professionals at that. If you can map, model or code then that's a bonus. 
> I think that Sielwolf's demos are lost, unless anyone has them
> backed up - the fall of the Hub.

Yes, if only some kind person had uploaded them to a new site, and then posted the links in a convenient place, say 3 posts above yours ;-)

> I vaguely remember that someone did, but then again I'm half cut.

Only half? 
Averaging 3/4 
Corrupted Data File 
Finally wanted to play this on mac using Fitz 0.85 SDL beta + Quoth 2. I downloaded from and right after the game with

-heapsize 128000 -quoth -game warp +map start

I get an error saying "Corrupted data file". Am I doing something wrong or is the download fucked? 
I have these in warp/
5ae38b85568a8b8317d533985da22f3e pak0.pak
dfe0a1f86819713649a9257c1e4e0e2d pak1.pak
eeb6d8f828b8d00148ebe01c4091b0bb pak2.pak 
I have the same - thanks. I think quake injector may have fucked up my quoth install. 
Is 0.85 svailable for Mac? Where might one download it? 
00480ea1008b9fe2e134896a015a31fd quoth/pak0.pak
7e67039da2527d95f61c215ef6f879cd quoth/pak1.pak
15adde4d62463f2384eace9b3d6076a5 quoth/pak2.pak
91d68e864df2e58c968fb3bdb0e238c6 quoth/pak51.pak (no idea what that is) 
Big Willie

Hey, has anyone ever considered a 4-player coop run through Warpspasm? Let's do it! 
That was the problem - qi wanted to install quoth, which I already had, so I cancelled that. It left partly downloaded files in my quoth dir. If you ask me, qi should a) make backups of files / dirs it overwrites (or at least ask me to) and b) installs should be atomic. 
Hell yes, thanks negke! 
Willem Killem 
You have quite a bit of catching-up to do, right? - hf. 
That definitely is an important feature (prompting before overwriting). Somehow we forgot about it, it is on the list now. 
I volunteer for that! 
Let Me Know If Anything Breaks 
So I can nod my head and scratch my beard. 
Point Of Fact 
Does anyone have the source - I don't. 
the map sources? 
I uploaded to the Hub before it was attacked, then changed pc. A few have them I think - Spirit, Trinca?

Probably wouldn't go back and fix anything - warp is a closed book for me, and I wouldn't recommend crawling through the maps. There's alot of fundamental layout errors. 
I Have It 

As a matter of fact, I was poking through the maps just now, looking for secrets I missed. Still looking for the rune shrine in warpd... it's the three tiny buttons scattered throughout the level, right? 
OK, so what does it mean if 0.85 locks up my Mac? It runs for a few seconds and everything looks great and then -- hard lock.

Is there something I can send to someone so they can debug something or am I boned? 
I should mention that 0.80 works perfectly. 
They're in the big open room with the walkway and pits down below - there's also something hidden in the ceiling near the Vores.

Also, the trinity is warpb is on a ledge with some runes drawn on a secret (brick tex) door - I remember Shambler asking about that one. 
BTW, the download link in the top post is broken. 
not sure. on windows, if you go over the new clipnodes limit, for example, the engine will just crash without any error message as soon as you try to load the map, but that doesn't sound like the problem you're having. 
No, this seems to happen with all levels. The level will load, I'm running around and then maybe 10-15 seconds later, bam, hard lock. It's really weird. 
What's your hardware specs? Do you have an ATI card? 
Macbook Pro
2.33 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo
4 GB
ATI RadeonX1600 (256 MB)

And the 0.80 release works perfectly so it must be something changed from 0.80 to 0.85. 
I have an MBP with NVidia card, which works fine with 0.85. I didn't do the 0.85 port. I guess you'll have to ask the dude who did this version. metl and I plan to do an "official" SDL port that will replace all Fitz versions, but it may still take a while. That version will be based on 0.85 and SDL 1.3. 
I believe it was Baker. Oh well. I'll just stick with 0.8 then until a better one gets released. Thanks! 
The next time it crashes, send me the log. Maybe I can spot something somewhere that's easy to fix. 
The Spammers Are Always So Polite! 
I just replayed WarpB. Died once, trying to kill a Gug with grenades. And then realised it's very easy with plasma particularly if you change strafe direction once he's shot.

Anyway. It was surprisingly fun. I'm not sure how I managed that. Still very hard though. I only just made the end battle. Going into the final arena with only 50 nails and lots of grenades probably didn't help. I got more secrets this time, 12/16.

Ijed you are right about the insta-gib nails from Quad + Trinity, what a joyous effect :D.

Did I read right that these maps had been extensively if not exclusively tested by Sielwolf?? That explains a LOT ;)

I learnt a few things this time. There's a lot of Enforcers so plasma is your friend. Those damn Bobs don't like it either. It's easier to tackle Bobs and....those flying snot things in corridors where they can't dodge. I still haven't worked out how to tackle Spawn, I should really know that by now.

Oh, one more thing. I remember you saying that there's a progression in enviromental hazards in the map, in particularly slime > lava > void. I realised in this map, they are all equally dangerous, the slime and lava are inescapable anyway. So presumably the progression is solely in atmosphere rather than gameplay effect. Interesting. 
Plasma becomes the primary weapon, the rest really there to take down the weaker positioned enemies.

It means that you have to manage cells carefully.

I kick myself about the x7 damage nails - I should have made it an almost insta-find and spawned in lots of extra fodder. I'm guessing you only managed maybe 10 seconds or so of the combined effect?

Yeah, Sielwolf was my playtester - one reason why AguirRe (who was my other support) made the extra coop modes (less Quoth monsters came first, super easy mode and more Quoth later) was just so he could play the thing without getting shredded.

Learning curve.

Having said that warp was playtested alot, so if you hit the rhythm of the gameplay it should be fun. But barrier to entry will put off alot of players.

I don't think anybody has a decent tactic for spawn apart from fool the Ai into getting stuck then nail the fucker. Those bumps do a fair bit of damage, considering. I still overuse them.

And yeah, the atmosphere was what I was talking about more than anything for the env hazards. I tend to look at it in terms of psychology - what fears the player?

Maybe an 'omnipresent grey pit' wasn't the best final.

Warpd had alot of potential, just starting to explore that kind of ambience now in a remake map of e3m4. 
the spawns didn't cause much problems for me in b and c.
they are placed in predictable areas, so when i was paying attention, i could usually blast them before they started jumping.
while this would be lame for normal monsters, i actually felt this was good with spawns, because whenever i'd take damage from them, i felt it was my own fault for not paying attention and blowing them up early. 
Well there's one point in warpc where I drop four in on the player. Not locking the entrance (the exit has a Shambler) was an act of generosity.

Should have done that and given an auto MH beforehand. 
Map 1, The Rooftop Secret. 
How do you get there ?
I know there is a crate with a teleport, but I can't break it or anything.
You can tell me, I won't tell anyone else ... 
I just found it ...

Sorry ! 
Skill 3 
In useless retrospect, I think that skill 3 was something of a missed opportunity here. Since the start map gives you the rune, it would have been cool to mess around with the episode entities - for example, putting info_player_start2 in the middle of the map, or making func_episode_gate powered logic gates to change ambushes around or make more monsters spawn (the downside of this is that you wouldn't be able to get 100% kills in skill 2, though...)

All in all would probably make the episode (moreso) harder beyond necessity though. :P

Would be cool to see some future Q1SP exploit this. 
If it got to hard you could try the -Quoth option.

Making skill 3 genuinely different would have been cool. Like going through Kell's Contract Revoked to find all the runes. 
You Know... 
You can make entities only appear in skill 3, should you want to... 
Fix For The Progs/s_plas.spr Error 
To anyone that's running into this error:
QUAKE ERROR: Mod_LoadModel: progs/s_plas.spr not found

Note that the quake directory that contains your "id1" directory, should not just contain "warp", but also "quoth"! This is because quoth is a dependency. 
Just tried playing it on the DK2 - latest Occulus Rift devkit. Was a cool, but very strange experience.

The scale of things in Quake is very weird when you're actually inside it.

And the position of the weapons. Because the Quake guy is a stumpy little dude, and the position of the weapons so, uh, strange, you basically have a gun for a dick.

The plasma dildo was especially misogynistic.

And by looking down you can see the muzzleflash model in your invisible stomach.

Still feel a bit queasy because of the speed of movement, but apparently that's normal until you get your VR legs.

It'd be great to have a proper mod using the Hydra's though.

I played one for HL2 where you had to gesture to use ironsights, throw grenades and reload.

Imagine axing a Shambler for 'real' - you'd probably end up breaking your hand on the desk. 
Sorry For The Necrobump

completed with about 2 rockets fired and 10-15 plasma bolts fired. :) 
Just lots of infighting and fiends jumping off the platform? 
Just bunnyhopping along the edges as fast as possible and waiting for the infighting to stop. That could be an interesting puzzle map concept, using movement to complete a map with an impossible amount of enemies (Which must all be killed before being able to exit 
This turned 10 years old and nobody noticed. 
But You Did 
Warpspasm is the Xlarve's Dream of yesteryear. It can be fun and is well made but can get repetitive. Not for everyone. I enjoyed many parts of both of your massive worlds, but I don't see this as having as widespread an influence as other releases. 
Shadow Tower Secret 
Does anyone know how to get the Shadow Tower secret in WarpC (Sealed City)? The one with the RL atop a tower with a spiral staircase. ijed said it's one of the hardest in the pack. The 100% demo links people posted back in the day are now dead. 
The links in post 264 seem to work fine for me.

In case, I have the files too.

They require an engine that plays demo protocol 15 back fine. This means glwarp, markv etc.

However, I remember my markv crashed during a playback of the warpd demo.

The warpc_sw62 file contains a warpc_rl demo
which shows the way to get to the shadow tower. 
In #277 there are links to zip versions of c and d.

And the demos are protocol 10002, not 15, so you need and engine that supports the 10002 format. 
Thanks, too bad QuakeSpasm doesn't support protocol 10002. Does Mark V? 
Mark V only supports protocol 10002 to the extent that Warpspasm start demos needed it to playback.

Requiem uses protocol 10002 as the protocol all the time, you might try that engine. 
I used the included glwarp.exe and it played back fine. Thanks. 
You said you'd be watching demos. Requiem does have some sort of demo rewind and fast forward because it based off JoeQuake.

I would imagine Warpspasm 100% demos would be rather long. 
Yes it was purely for watching the demos parubaru mentioned. Before downloading Requiem I thought I'd try the engine mods included with the map pack. glwarp.exe played them back fine, albeit without the rewind/fast-forward functionality as you said. At least the demo was a 100% run and quite fun to watch.

Speaking of demos, the only playback functions I'm aware of with vanilla Quake/Quakespasm/FitzQuake is play and pause. Are there any others? Googling turned up nothing. 
Vanilla Quake/Quakespasm/DarkPlaces that is really all you can do, although you can fast forward with host_framerate. Rewind is simply impossible, rewind ability in an engine requires a fair bit of work.

Mark V has demo rewind/fast forward better than JoeQuake with the arrow keys. Press tab (+showscores shows how much of the demo remains to be played.) qbism super8 (a WinQuake style engine) also has demo rewind based on the Mark V style implementation.

glwarp is a neat engine for its time. One upon a time was only huge maps engine with classic look. 
Do I just drop any of the mark_v exes into my Quake directory?
And speaking of engines, what's the best way to run Nehahra nowadays? Quakespasm + Spirit repack from Quaddicted? 
The best way to run Nehahra is probably still with one of the original engines built especially for it. Nehahra is a bit of a special case, and a lot of what it does (and the way it does it) dates from a time before things were really well standardized. Consequently, Nehahra tends to do many things in a way that's not really compatible with everything else (and some are outright broken, like adding extra protocol functionality without changing the protocol version). Even DarkPlaces gave up on maintaining Nehahra compatibility a long time ago. 
@maiden - Mark V runs Nehahra (put this in the nehahra dir fmod.dll. Add -game nehahra -nehahra to the command line.

Engines that can play Nehahra: Mark V, JoeQuake, Requiem, engines that come in the zip if they still run.

Do "nomonsters 1" to stop the annoying strafe if you want.

@mh -- Hehehe. You ought to see how nice Mark V runs Nehahra or Zerstorer. Both mods like to screw up your settings really badly when playing cutscenes or Nehahra playing between level demos. They mess with your crosshair, wateralpha, fov, viewsize. Mark V treats those as "display hints" instead, your settings remain unchanged. 
I found that the 'best' way to run Nehahra
depended some on the hardware, graphics card etc.

Three computers, three engines. The orinigal ones are worth a try, and I seem to recall on one machine I eventually went with nehwarp (an engine in this release).

Most currently I used a very recent markv, which was updated to support the Nehahra fog system. I think you can just drop the markv files into the Quake directory, yes.

I set cl_autodemo 0 in the config, and recommend the command: cutscene 0. Launch with the command: markv -nehahra -game nehahra for the fog. Apart, from the initial stutter upon launch I had no problems with the pack. 
Mh, Baker, Parubaru 
Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. So no Quakespasm for Nehahra? I recently ran Zerstorer with a recent build of QS (0.92 I think) and didn't notice any issues. Just wondering. 
QuakeSpasm doesn't have any of the Nehahra-specific engine features, so it's best not to use it for Nehahra. The maps load but various stuff will be broken (I'm not sure to what extent).

Zerstorer on the other hand, I think runs on any Quake engine (I remember playing it on Winquake when I didn't have a gpu.) 
I just did c:/quake/quakespasm.exe -game nehahra -nehahra -->Single Player->New Game and it did a Quake Error "sprites/explode1.spr" has wrong version number, should be 32".

Plus Nehahra requires some qc functions that aren't in original Quake like PF_changepitch, PF_sqrt.

(Also the progs.dat with just certain maps like to crash Quakespasm if you remove the sprite32s. Quakespasm Spiked ironically has a fix for that.)

For completeness, the wrong menu shows (it shows, I guess the "Seal of Nehahra" menu instead of the game menu --- Nehahra's actual menu is named differently), the fmod .xm music won't play, Nehahra needs some extra cvars available or it won't work right (which I think is limited to cutscenes). Plus Nehahra does not use what we view as the normal "fog" worldspawn entity, it rolls it own way via an svc. Nehahra also has some custom effects (certain particle numbers it treats differently).

Even with a non-Mark V engine that properly supports Nehahra --- all kinds of stuff likes to mess with your settings during the course of gameplay. You might have a certain fov or crosshair you like, perhaps a certain r_wateralpha setting --- and Nehahra will smash your config to pieces.

(Zerstorer likes to do some of that as well. If you use Quake default settings, someone may not notice --- like fov 90, viewsize 100, r_wateralpha 1, crosshair 0 -- you may never know it happens).

Nehahra is difficult to deal with.

mh wrote a long commentary about Nehahra once. It was a good read.

I got obsessed a bit with Nehahra, pushed my stack of engine coding chip into the pot and said "All In" a few years ago and kept defanging it until I could play it and enjoy it with zero annoyances.

(Then I think I stopped engine coding for 2 weeks and played Nehahra with some frequency -- -haha. Nehahra really is quite a masterpiece and it becomes clear after the annoyances are eradicated). 
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