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Q1SP: Five Rivers Land
This project is a remake of Doom3 Hell level, split in 3 small/medium maps due to the amount of details of the original, using the Doom3 texture set I converted last year plus some few others.

For this project, I tried to put the emphasis on the ambiance, adding new sounds, and more details than in others of my previous maps. Like in Doom3, the gameplay is very linear, so don't hate me please... but I tried to respect the original Hell level... even if I added some personal touches (e.g: secrets)

Note: Quoth pack is needed to play the maps properly. Unzip this pack into your quoth directory.




All comments and advices are welcome: enjoy !

PS1: Special thanks to aguirRe, Trinca and JohnXmas for their contributions to this project: you rock !

PS2: Five Rivers Land title comes from the 5 crossing rivers of Hell... Read the text file for further details ;)
you stole doom3 textures 
Nice Looking Screens 
comments later. 
I want more of that poetry...

And your secrets were pretty intuitive! 
Good Map Overall 
First off, most of these textures were ugly as hell. Which rather worked in this map's favor, since it is supposed to depict a place no one would ever want to go. So, they fit the map nicely.

The construction and indoor sections would have seemed rather plain, if not for the large amount of ruined places there were. The ruined details were quite nice.

The details were nice, like the skulls in the first and last maps, and there were a few other neat structures, like the crusher in the second map.

I do have to say i did not find the first two maps very challenging, as i only think i was below 50 health once, on a well placed drole ambush. The third map was fairly easy, until the second to last spawn, which was quite difficult, the only place i died. Gaunts really eat the player alive in open spaces. I played on hard.

While it did look like you put a lot of effort into the terrain, it looked slightly off to me, less like terrain and more like blocks. I know i'm not doing a good job at explaining it, but the terrain seemed slightly off. Maybe it was the textures.

Overall, a well done map. Thanks JPL, and i hope to see you continue to improve in your mapping. 
very nice, need spirit to add this to news!! 
(I haven't even posted at Quaddicted yet, lazy bum I am :( )

I gave a quick try this morning and I have a very diverse feelign so far.
The sounds (nice!!) and atmosphere are pretty great.
But the combat is nothing but annoying to me. Too Doom3-spawn-behind-your-back-or- right-in-your-face with very tight room to move and evade. I had the same table-smashing moments like in SRC where I felt very disabled by the map's "environment".
The maps are well built and looking (I am in the middle of map 2) but so crampy. A style I really dislike (please keep that in mind when reading this comment, it is very biased ;) (just like with base maps, heh)).

Textures and lighting = same as SRC. When picking up the quad at map2 start I couldn't see anything in the mess of darkness and no contrast... This is one thing I would really love to see changes. ;)

I don't know if you played Travail now, but neg!ke's qte2m6 is a perfect example of a quite as tight map but with good lighting and non-crampyness.

I'll play the rest tonight. :) 
The best part of Doom 3 was obviously the Hell level. It was unsettling, dark, and scary.

This map looks and feels just like the hell level, maybe better. Brushwork was great as always. Although some have said lighting was too dark, I found it to be just right.

I love all the ambient sounds you put into it, such as the evil chants, the deep groans and growls, and betruger's laugh.

I don't care what anyone says, I think the Doom 3 textures in Quake are just awesome.

I thought there was a bit too much ammo in most situations, and my health was almost always below 50. But that makes for a good challenge.

Overall, I feel this is the best Doom 3 based Quake map ever. Plenty of replayability and things to see. Great job JPL :) Keep on mapping. 
I played on hard and I thought it was easier than SRC and most "modern" q1sp maps. The thing about the type of combat in these maps is that you can't rush ahead, you must play like you're scared. Which is fun, especially since otherwise

you will die. 
I did manage to find almost all secrets (before I killed all the enemies mind you) so those armors and such probably helped a lot. 
Time To Get In Gear I Guess... 
two maps by JPL in such a short time? Awesome! 
Very Nice Levels... 
..but buttugly textures. And it has in some places the same problem as doom3: it's too dark.
I wondered where that plasma gun came from and where my rl went to in the 3rd level.
But overall i enjoyed it. 
... for the feedback.

As I explain in the thread header, this map is supposed to be a remake (down-make ?) of the Doom3 Hell level. I knew the gameplay will be ruined due to the Doom3-linearish gameplay, so, I decided to add some secrets to make the map more Quakish... and also to add a cherry on the cake with the last arena: the biggest deviation from the Doom3 Hell guardian part...

In anyway, I'm sorry for the crampiness, but it is exactely the same in the Doom3 original level, so as a remake must not deviate too much from the original IMHO... I has to preserve this "convenience" in the map... and it also add to the global unsecurity feeling

All in all, the major diffculty thing was to obtain the same ambience feeling as in Doom3... That's why I heavily concentrated and put the emphasis on the ambience, particularly using the rumbbling background sounds, and adding others (thanks to the freesound project wesite), and also to SoundForge I used a lot to add cavernous reverberation and bass-boost effects, etc.. Also, the overuse of crucified/hanging bodies was the key.. like the blood fountain...

Well, I knew some purists will complain about the textures and the crampiness, but the idea was to make something different from what you ever experimented, and I guess the result was not so far from my expectations, regarding some comments above...

So, I would like to thank the people who took time to play the map, even if they didn't give feedback... 
thanks for the pointer to freesound... that could be a useful website. 
Played Through 
I haven't played DooM 3 yet so perhaps I spoiled the surprise awaiting for the Hell maps but I liked this dark romp through a hellish landscape that reminded me very much of some levels in Undying (Osiris levels?). Even the sounds seemed familiar from Undying or perhaps Diablo 2.

I found all 6 secrets and they seemed fair and usefull. Ammo was a bit more scarce in the first map but plentiful later on. Gameplay was decent (I played on Hard). Those vorelings really gnaw me down though. The final map was also fun and I did use some strategy to beat it.

Like my Travail maps, it was crampy but that encourages a slower more cautious play style - more of a snipe from cover then a barge in and mow down style. But cramped maps do frustrate too when you can't dodge the Guant's lightning in time.

Good moody map set. Thanks JPL. I hope to play more of your maps in the future. 
Nice D3 hell feeling. Not too hard for me on skill 2, the end battle was very tough though. I never ran out of ammo, but my health was constantly below 50. Found only one secret in each map. Nice ambient sounds, too bad there weren't more.

Brushwork could have been better in places, especially the indoor rocks. Lighting was often very flat, high minlight doesn't go well with those textures. Use trigger_void instead of _hurt. 
Nice Pack JPHell 

atmospheric sounds
dark mood
I liked the textures
good tough gameplay


map3 is impossible from scratch, no weapons /not enough shells

the start is very laggy for me, some spots later on are quite slow too

no Cyberdemon (expected it after your Event map)

made some demos: 
Nice Indeed... 
...the big positive with this pack is atmosfear. It's loaded! I think the things that did it for me were the skybox, the soundscape (brilliant), the inclusion of Quoth map objects, some (but only some) of the lighting, and the not too overdone Doom3 spawning. Once I realised that, like D3, picking up something useful was also going to be dangerous it kept me on my toes.

On the downside, most of the brush work was boring or simplistic. One of few exceptions was the little alcove area that contained a broken blood well, some supplies and a shambler (on skill 1). There was just enough light to make out what was going on structurally and the feature that capped the experience was the broken barred window that looked out into the "void". Yum! Another big downside was texturing, seeing wall blocks used as ceiling, supported by "beams" that are just more wall blocks is most disappointing. Also, misalignments like the one above the Vore over the "void", where the sloped ceiling joins the horizontal can be OK, but not if you put two wall torches just underneath them :)

Downsides aside, I've replayed it three times just for the atmosphere. Thanks JPL! 
Holy Shit JPL 
faithful to the original but much more fun inside the Quake universe. Love the
ambient sounds, and I'm not sure if FitzQuake has true stereo but it was quite convincing to my ears.

I'm going to play it again, even though I have a lot of driving to do tomorrow; screw it, I'm playing again. That's a problem for future Thumper to worry about.

JPL. masta of da atmosphere. 
Thanks a lot for all the good comments above, I was not expecting so much good things after post #12.

Well, I'm about to go on holiday now (3 weeks), and maybe I will find time to start something new... This time I'll try to put all the best I did in a single map (CDA architecture design, CMC curviness, SRC interconnect and 5 Rivers ambience)... Maybe something top will result in...

Again, thanks a lot for all the feedback guys ;) 
I Think 
that cyberdemon map was very good, except the part with the cyberdemons! 
played again after beta testing :)

the end is perfect on hard :) lots of action :=)

thks JPL you are a great mapper! hope to see more maps from you

the skulls gave problems i now but they look real great, good job my friend! 
Perfectly Doom-y 
Great job, JPL, of re-creating the Doom 3 Hell experience in Quake! The ambiance and architecture were spot on -- Doom 3 Hell levels weren't that spectacular architecturally, save maybe for the intricate rock formations here and there. The textures did the trick, overall, but I still don't like the lava ;)

I only wish the experience lasted a little longer...

Cheers and Happy Holiday to you!!! 
I havent played the original so I have no idea what its meant to be like. So the comments are just in relation to this map.

I found the ambience well done for sure, someone else mentioned the oneiros levels from undying and this did remind me of those. Only this was menacing rather than mysterious (which is the vibe the undying oneiros levels gave me).

There is a general simplicty to everything visually though, from brushwork to detailing to texturing to lighting. I think more work could have been done visually. The caves were especially unconvincing in their rockwork and the lighting needed further work too as its too flat.

But there's a few very nice looking areas like the one distrans mentions. Dont know if this is how the original was, but if that area was a deviation, there should have been more of those.

Gameplay wise, I didnt find it too bad. Its not as cramped as your last map, or maybe the enemies here just dont require as much movement. the teleporting monsters behind was annoying, although from what I have read that's a doom 3 thing so I wont blame you for that :)

Overall, nice work and keep it up. 
JPL, this is just a f****** good map. The looks and atmosphere are TOP. (You might want to replace the lava with standard Quake lava.)

Lighting was very nicely gloomy. Played in software and it looked just right.

Now for the criticism. Gameplay. Map 1 was all right difficulty-wise. Map2 was OK, but in some places I thought "uh-oh, three droles?!" I was _very_ thankful when I grabbed the Quad ("just what I need now!")

I must have missed the RL, where is it?

Map 3: This is where I just lost patience and hit "god" and "impulse 9." It feels like 100 times a Trinca map. A Trinca map with only boss monsters.

WTF? There are how many Death Lords in here? Plus multiple droles, and night gaunts, and finally four gugs?!

JPL, this is the best work I've seen from you yet. The atmosphere is great. The hardship is great. This is a super-hard map. But please could you make it so wimpy players with no skills and no attention span like myself can actually finish your maps in the future?

I played on Hard, though.


good map(s), but overuse of those semi-boss monsters like Droles and Death Lords. Please **** us slightly not so hard in your next maps.

(still hurting.)

Never played Doom3 so can't comment on that. 
I'm Probably Not 
the right person to comment on this, but I think you can make it easier for yourself in the arena by killing stuff in another order, see Sielwolf's demo. 
AguirRe Is Rigth... 
There is a certain strategy to use, for sure... I'll comment later on this...

BTW, Sielwolf, I still didn't download the demo, could send it via email please ? 
Sielwolf's Demos 
Sielwolf: You're apparently a very patient player. The amount of times you jumped into that blood pool in map 2 would have driven me nuts. When you did that for the 5th time or so, I cringed in my chair.

Frequent use of boomstick and shamblerdance maneuvers isn't my idea of fun, either. I finished that map much, much quicker because I just didn't bother to kill everything...

The arena (map 3): Well I played in the same way basically (is there another way?) Just that I used Impulse 9 instead of doing what Sielwolf did.

Personally I don't find it the least bit exciting killing 20 death lords in a row with a rocket launcher, but to each his own I guess.

JPL, instead of confronting the player with groups of 4-8 monsters of the same type, then another type, why not mix them up more? Is that coming from Doom 3?

Playing like you're afraid: Yeah, I guess that hits the nail on the head. Problem is I'm more the trigger-happy type (hey, I play QUAKE!) and so I need maps that cater to an aggressive playstyle.

I'd even say I liked the gameplay in src better, apart from the bobs. 
Is that coming from Doom 3?

No, in original Doom 3 , there is a single monster, with some other minor 'flyers' (i.e the Guardian), that is the Hell big boss...

Well, as I already said, the gameplay is really similar to Doom 3 gameplay: linear .... Well, I know it sucks and it could have been improved, but as I've chosen to make a remake, it has to follow certain rules, and at least to look like the original... :P
The most difficult thing to render was the ambiance... and regarding the comments posted here, I guess I hit the target I fixed, more or less...

Anyway, thanks a lot to all the people who posted here, and who supported me during this project.. 
Pretty amazing. Some indoor areas seemed a bit plain but I loved the Doomish atmosphere, the sound effects and the texture set. Also, combat was top notch. I especially enjoyed the last map - health/ammo balance was just right. 
Hellishly Delicious 
JPL..this is great stuff. Totally immersive evil atmosphere, great use of ambient sound and I personally loved the textures in the context of the setting. The inclusion of the Quoth entities only made it that much better. 
Does a very good job of replicating D3 hell feel, very accurate, although that is a double edge sword because although it's a cool style it is also a bit flat and bland layout-wise. Still, top marks for execution and style.

Gameplay was variable, very hard to start, good in the second map, in fact that was a real blast. Final map I sorta got bored with. 
nice maps, I liked the atmosphere a lot, though I agree with the comments that some of the locations were a bit bland, and the gameplay a bit linear and occasionally unfair, but I know you can blame a lot of that on Doom 3 itself. Good effort too, there's a lot of mappage here so thanks and congrats! 
It is a good map.

Can you make a fast, easy fragging zone map in the style of original Quake for us more aggressive guys in the future? :-) 
More frightening and agressive than this map ? Do you really want to die in the first second ?

No, actually, I planned to start something new, based on Quoth (or Quoth2.... nevermind), but I still don't have a clear theme... I'd like to go for a medieval map, but Quoth2 is more base oriented (regarding the new monsters added... at least in the preliminary release of last year)

Wait and see....

And as usual: thanks a lot for all the comments above ;) 
Very Cool Map 
Looks very Doom3 athmospheric. The skybox and textures really rock
But I don't think that the gameplay is Doom3 like. Doom3 is like running through the maps only using the shotgun. this doesn't work in 5river land.

Apart from that I experienced framerate drops at the start, it seems that there are too many dynamic lights for my 8500gt.
I had something similar with my old onboard i810 intel gfx-card, with the difference that only one dynamic light dropped the framerate. and I remembered that i fixed this with adding -nomtex to the command line.
So I tried this and it worked. 
You Could Also Try 
r_flatlightstyles 1 in Fitz or my GL-engines. 
Apart from that I experienced framerate drops at the start

You had framerate drops at the start: in which order ? Cause I didn't get that with my PC... or maybe the r_flatlightstyles 1 command is in my default Quake setup....

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, I'm glad you enjoyed the map ;)
Exactely here. Maybe the gfx driver is not too good 
Oh, it is indeed surprising... I didn't experienced such behaviour, except when the maps was fastvised... thought... 
Why Isnt This A News Thread 
I thought this was released yesterday or something... I lose :/ 
Took a look at it
I think the textures dont really work because they are too dark and all the light is lost on them. I had to use gamma .6 to see anything and it still looked pretty undefined cause of the very dark textures and lighting (btw are there any falling shadows at all? I havent noticed). The most common rock texture is just bad. What are the .lit files for? I havent seen any colored light (tried with DP and Fitzhack)
Nice try to remake the d3 hell maps anyway, some detailing looks good. And the sounds and skybox make a good atmosphere.
The jumping-shit before the vore was really bad idea f9... f9... oh fuck this. (and its present even on ez skill, are you a sadist?)
Final arena was fun, replayed it few times (except its rather choppy in Fitz, even DP runs faster).
Very doom3 overall - dark and you cant see much, annoying monsters(vorelings), nice detailiing, gameplay is a mixed bag. :P 
DaZ / Speeds 
DaZ: Indeed it was released by ned of July last year... I guess you were on holiday at this time :P No go play and provide feedback please ;)

Speeds: There are colored lights in the map, but I didn't forced the value in order to have something completely red or blue..; The ligth color effects are "smooth".. I tried actually to make a "downmake" of Doom3 Hell level, and I guess I captured the ambience right ? And concerning the texture: I used Doom3 only, except for the sky (Biff's sky9 tex), so well, I admit it looks odd, but it is the best rock texture in the Doom3 set...
Anyway, thanks for your feedback ;) 
i played this map a while ago but never got round to posting feedback it seems.

first off, i loved the end arena.. VERY well executed. the ammo balance was just right, the quad was appropriate (i liked how there was a choice between taking it straight away or saving it for the bigger critters) and the sniping enforcers were cool - having to focus on taking them down whilst avoiding the ground monsters added an extra dimension to the gameplay. it took me 3-4 attempts in total but was never frustrating since i could always put up a solid fight and was always fairly beaten.. plus it was a fun battle :)

the rest of the map, i'm sad to say, didn't do much for me at all :(

i haven't played doom 3 so this was a q1 map in itself for me. there were a number of things i didn't like about it though. firstly it just felt a little claustrophobic (after the first arena) without much freedom to move or explore.. gameplay felt too restricted as a result. secondly the lighting felt too dark & drab overall.. i sense you were going for a 'dark' mood but i'd have preferred a little more contrast all the same. thirdly the layout seemed a little disparate and linear.. with simply one area after another and no route choices or backtracking.. i'm surprised you couldn't fit the first two maps in one since they didn't feel particularly big or detailed.. that probably didn't help matters.

there are probably more things i could nitpick but it probably all just boils down to this not being my style of map. i can appreciate you were going for the style of another game though.. i guess the doom3 copy that's been sitting unplayed on my shelf for 3.5 years should just remain there ;) 
how i'm supposed to get the RA secret in the 2ns map ?
About the 3rd map : the last 2 rows of monsters (gugs and flying lightning beasts) were sick. I was playing on normal difficulty. I hardly finished them, helping by getting up on some rocks in a corner before finished last knight.
I had the RA armour (but a bit sacrificed by some RJ), but the quad would be really welcome. I used it before, picked it unwillingly while running around at the first stages from those fiends and knights). 
RA secret in 2nd map: There is a stone you have to push in the room with the RL (stone bridge with the cultist "song"), just on the left, when you enter... it will open some bars. in the previous room...

And concerning the end area, I really advice player to think twice before using it at the beginning... really... ;)

Thanks for the feedback 
Corpse Removal? 
i was reading how to do this in nsoe2 and putting the cvar into an autoexec file.
i tried temp1 4, but i realised it probably is a different cvar with this mod/map. 
Peter Tron 
You should check Kell's Quoth webpage: you might find what you are looking for there:
.. or directly ask necros/Kell/Preach in mapping help thread ;) 
i don't know, sorry. i didn't add a way for the player to control corpse removal, but preach might have. 
or... well, ok, if you want to edit the entities in the map .bsp... you can change/add worldspawn's 'corpse_time' key to set the number of seconds before corpses disappear. you'd have to restart the map for it to take effect though. 
i tried opening the .bsp in textedit (the mac version of notepad), and it is all unreadable text. 
You'll Need A Hex Editor 
this is what i get when i downloaded hex editor and opened up a .bsp file:

1D 00 00 00 84 40 30 00 0B 70 00 00 7C 00 00 00
F8 AA 02 00 90 B0 30 00 40 23 0F 00 2C D1 04 00
B0 E9 02 00 FC B4 26 00 85 8B 09 00 DC BA 07 00
A8 54 03 00 84 0F 0B 00 80 3E 05 00 04 4E 10 00

i'm not sure where to go with this. i assumed i should be seeing 'text', like when you open a .ent file.

is there another thread in func somewhere that talks about these things, as i'm starting to veer slightly off-topic with this hex editing query (even though it is still related to corpse removal in the 5rivers map!).

i might get a slapped wrist! 
BSPs are binary files, whereas .ent or .map files are plain text. I don't think you'll want to mess with BSP files directly if you don't know exactly what you're doing. 
is there another way i can alter the corpse_time info?
if not, it's no big deal, i just enjoy fiddling with all these cvars 'n' wotnot. good clean, honest fun! 
not sure what the best way is but you can extract all the entities from a bsp file (proper texteditor should actually work, they are at the bottom of the file; alternatively some engines have commands to dump entities, dp does). then you can save that file as maps/bspfilename.ent (and modify it) and engines with support will load that.

brb removing all tarbabies from negke's maps! 
i didn't read the previous posts, but there is a section in the bsp file which is readable text; this section contains all of the entity data. It looks like a .map file but with no brushes. You can edit it directly (as long as the number of characters doesn't change) or you can copy/paste it into a new file called .map, and then edit that, and then run qbsp -onlyents and light -onlyents to push those changes back into the bsp file. 
A better way to get a proper .ent file is using BJP's bspinfo tool with -copyents. But then, is this really worth the trouble? No need for corpse removal if playing with QS, unless for visual reasons. And isn't there a command in Quoth2 to enable it manually without hacking the map? Sucks the Quoth manual still hasn't been updated with all the additional information (features blatantly missing on the page) scattered around various threads here. 
Yeah, A Lotta Hassle For A Small Visual Thing 
i've finished the episode now. i enjoyed it, the whole hell doom 3 'mood', so to speak.
i didn't care too much for the ending confrontation. lots of spawning flying twats with instantly hitting lightning, whereby there is hardly anything you can do about it. i'm sure someone out there can obviously do better than me, but..i hate getting smashed about and not having any clear way to avoid/strafe behind cover . i t always feels a tad 'cheap' to me.. 
lots of spawning flying twats with instantly hitting lightning
if you strafe, you can avoid the lightning. 
you're right, but it's a 'distance' thing. get some distance, then strafing does work, unlike shambler lightning.. 
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