are those levels even any good?
I suppose we could mail The Romero about this, or id Software. The standard levels are now open source, so perhaps we could get the bonus ones too.
On the other hand, if they were good levels somebody would already have stolen/ported them I think. You could just rip them from the pakfiles of that version, no?
Oh and: Pics!
Probably the levels were made (and therefore copyrighted) by another developer, i.e. whoever ported it. So Romero probably can't help, other than maybe pointing you in the right direction
... I seem to remember that those levels were at least standard id quality, I only played 2 at the time and, quite frankly, I wouldn't know where to find screenshots, I'll try google them later.
@golden_boy, do you mean that .pak files from the Sega version would be playable on PC? Would it be the same with the other versions? I'm not that much of a techboy, you know...
And I'd sure love to play all versions of this game!
As for re-creating them... Could it be a speedmap theme? If someone finds a screenshot, the theme would be: Build a map around this!
...does not say much, tough...
I've discovered the names and how to jump to the 4 bonus levels in a cheats document to be found on Fileplanet:
I did not remember they were substitutes for the secrets level(Thinking of Quake without Ziggurat Vertigo gives me goosebumps), furthermore, I discovered in this document some nice features of the Sega version (i.e. the "rain" cheat that has rain falling in open areas of maps), still, no screen of the secret levels...
I'll keep searching....
Didn't Even Know There Is A Saturn Port As Well
Can't you just warez the Saturn version and play it with an emulator? If the file structure is remotely similar to the PC version, one could maybe extract the levels and try some obscure bspversion conversion. I don't expect much from them however. Do you remember anything about their sizes/themes?
I own the N64 port shown in the comparison shots. What were they thinking when adding the colored lighting... Indeed, many areas have been simplified to varying degrees. Deathmatch rocked (well, in a way) with the wacky controls, no idea why people always refused to play it with me. ;) The Saturn version looks somewhat better.
...I'm thinking of asking that old friend if he still has the disc and try to do something with it.
About size and themes, I'd say average Q1, I seem to remember that secret level 1(Purgatorium, as we have learned), accessed from where once was Ziggurat Vertigo, was blue metal in style, with lotsa scrags...
If you're interested in this version, I'd suggest you give a look at the document about cheat codes ( http://files.filefront.com/Quake+1+cheat+codes+in+detail+PC+N64+Saturn/;2607167;/fileinfo.html
) it has a good section about Sega Quake and offers nice comparation with the other 2 versions.
Colored lightning, they were thinking "Hey, we can make this look like Quake2, it just came out, people will love it!".
They made it look like Barnum in Hell, instead...
Now, if I only can find the number of that friend of mine....
But I've no idea how to convert these levels...
I am playing it with the Yabause emulator right now, unfortunately there is some overlay of sprites on the screen. Seems like they used sprites for the hud weapon models. No entities are displayed and the walls are tilted in a weird way. The levels are _very_ low quality compared to the original ones in my opinion. Like 50% of the brushwork is gone for performance.
Hm, that overlay layer can be turned off.
I tried one secret map, secret3 I think. It was an arena where the player had to select a monster to fight against a computer monster (eg orge vs shambler). Or the other secret levels alike?
Some Screenshots From That Level
... As I said, I remember having played the first two secret levels, or maybe only the first one...
But, I don't remember such difference in quality... It's been along while... My brain has had to take a lot of abuse ever since...
Hey, can you give me a link to Yabause? I dloaded a coupla emulators, but they don't seem to work at all...
...what is google for?
Found Yabause. Thanks anyway.
those levels look total balls! Is there supposed to be no lighting? Seriously, the majority of the people who post on Func can do better speedmaps.
but, consider the ridiculously low specs of the systems they were designed to run on. (Not to say these were awesome, but you do have to consider being told "re-make this 1mb map, but it can only be 500k in size, and you can only use lightmaps on 50% of the walls" or similar.)
he meant the bonus map.
...Can anyone fill me in on how to actually run a game with an emulator? I tries Yabause, SSc to no avail... YAbause is the easiest to use for me, but, after having set up the thing, told it where to find track01.iso, nothing happens...
Uff.. damn my poor tech skills....
Any help will be greatly appreciated, thanks...
It's Not Worth It
It's _very_ slow and as I said entities do not show up. You need to find a BIOS image for Yabause and specify some options too.
@screenshots: Are you kidding? :-)
Spirit et al: What is the format, I assume it's a CD image? Is it ISO9660?
If so, it should be easily readable. You could mount it and look at the contents. Maybe it does have PAK files.
Or it has a LHA archive like Shareware Quake.
It is definitely possible to extract the BSPs. But downloading 70 MB of crap from some unreliable host doesn't seem attractive to me considering the screenshots.
Who did the four bonus levels? Id Software?
Yes, it's an iso file. There are no pak files, the maps are in .lev format iirc. No idea how to open/convert them.
They were most likely not made by id - see metl's first post.
The filelist from the ISO:
382 Kilobytes - 1997-10-24 - 0
996 Kilobytes - 1997-10-23 - credits.lev
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-13 - drklogo.pic
1269 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e1l1.lev
1363 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e1l2.lev
1321 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e1l3.lev
1212 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e1l4.lev
1355 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e1l5.lev
1216 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e1l6.lev
654 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e1l7.lev
1369 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e2l1.lev
1349 Kilobytes - 1997-10-24 - e2l2.lev
1590 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e2l3.lev
1457 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e2l4.lev
1348 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e2l5.lev
1500 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e2l6.lev
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - e2m6.pic
1340 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e3l1.lev
1181 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e3l2.lev
1218 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e3l3.lev
1403 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e3l4.lev
1434 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e3l5.lev
1263 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e3l6.lev
982 Kilobytes - 1997-10-22 - e4l10.lev
1029 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l11.lev
1281 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l1.lev
1444 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l2.lev
1319 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l3.lev
1406 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l4.lev
1441 Kilobytes - 1997-10-24 - e4l5.lev
1149 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l6.lev
1497 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l7.lev
1259 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l8.lev
1080 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - e4l9.lev
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - e4m6.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - end1.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - end2.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - end3.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - end4.pic
1220 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - end.lev
81 Kilobytes - 1997-01-17 - initload.dat
164 Kilobytes - 1997-01-17 - intro.dat
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-07 - litlogo2.pic
Kilobytes - 1997-09-22 - nits_abs.txt
Kilobytes - 1997-09-22 - nits_bib.txt
Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - nits_cpy.txt
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-07 - qblank.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-16 - qload.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - qlogo.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-13 - quaker1.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-18 - quaker2.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-13 - quaker3.pic
6 Kilobytes - 1997-10-24 - quake.scr
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - secret.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-18 - sega.pic
11204 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - skank.dat
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - splash1.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - splash2.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - splash3.pic
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - splash4.pic
1068 Kilobytes - 1997-10-24 - start.lev
632 Kilobytes - 1997-10-18 - static.dat
77 Kilobytes - 1997-10-03 - tele.pic
607 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - test.lev
518 Kilobytes - 1997-10-21 - title.lev
3 Kilobytes - 1997-10-24 - usip.bin
My thought on that is that
a) LEV is obviously short for Level
This means it's not really an established file format, just a work extension. I'm pretty sure the actual file format is BSP, because it seems unlikely that they had their own map compiler.
b) It could be renamed BSP (unlikely)
c) It could be individually compressed files, i.e. packed with one of the standard packers of the time.
Finding out which is a matter of trying to open them with various unpackers.
Moreover, the unpacker would have to be on the CD, because the files would need to be extracted for playing. It is either an executable or it's built into the engine. Or it's some built-in SEGA thing (BIOS?).
One could also spy at the files with a text editor.
Maps: If id wasn't guilty, who is? The names of these mappers should be in the Book of Quake.
I doubt it's standard bsp format. At least when I opened it with a text editor and searched for worldspawn, I found nothing (no text strings). Maybe I overlooked something but I don't think so.
Well, I Tried Some Stuff
eg file *.lev
all except credits.lev and e*l1.lev are "identified" as lif file
, the others are just "data". Seems like file does not work on these as it also "identifies" some pictures as sounds here (at least I think we can be sure that the .pic files are no sounds...).
Watching them with a Hexeditor shows that they got quite some non-different stuff in the header(?).
Good luck! :)
What Book of Quake? It's not in Masters of Doom if you meant that.
*Of Course I Meant Hex Editor Above
They don't seem to be compressed as their sizes are rougly equal to their PC counterparts (a bit smaller, likely because of the reduced details).
E1M1.bsp (the PC version) registers at 1365176 bytes; this one (assuming E1L1 is Slipgate Complex) is 1269 KB.
This is about a 10 percent size difference. What does the size difference come from?
a) Compression (see above)
b) Stuff they took out (see rename theory)
I see a single BIN file, which obviously means Binary - not necessarily executable.
usip.bin - only 3 KB so this isn't the engine.
There are also .dat files.
static.dat - 632 KB - Is this the game code?
skank.dat - 11.2 MB (!) This must be sounds or...
intro.dat - 164 KB - perhaps demos?
initload.dat - 81 KB - this sounds interesting.
I'm pretty sure those .dat files are interesting. Internet forums or newsgroups might know more... they are probably archives.
But considering we only want the levels, I think there's no need to look further.
Anyway - where is the rest of the stuff? There should be sound samples, models... only 67 MB? It must have been scaled down rigidly.
The Filename Gives A Hint
I left out some bigger files as my upload sucks.
Oh, No I Was
thinking/talking wrong. I was stumped for a moment that the whole ISO is only 67 MB, but of course that's all right.
Pak0.pak is 18 MB, Pak1.pak is 34, so 67 MB is about right for the whole package (iso images don't contain audio). My fault, ignore what I said.
Thanks for the stuff, but I'm getting interested and might just buy the whole thing. ^^
Thank You For Playing Powerslave!
That's what I found in initload.dat. So I looked that up.
Turns out Powerslave (Exhumed) and Quake have a lot in common on the Sega Saturn.
based on Lobotomy Software's SlaveDriver Engine and feature a true 3D world, similar to Quake. It is worth noting that the same engine was used to power the Sega Saturn versions of Duke Nukem 3D and eventually Quake.
It Gets Even Better
Interview with Lobotomy Software on porting Duke to Saturn, using their own obviously superior engine PLUS their own level editor, which was modified to import the Duke maps.
Considering Lobotomy later did Quake for Saturn, the following conclusions seem in order:
1. Saturn Quake runs on Lobotomy's engine, not Id's
2. The levels were compiled using Brew, Lobotomy's editor.
In which case having the compiled maps is of no use to us.
Seems like they used sprites for the hud weapon models.
That would be explained then. You're playing Exhumed/Duke3D with Quake levels, not Quake.
The Thick Plottens!
Have A Beer
Lobotomy Software. You made a kick-ass engine and a nice game.
And that was that.
And The Final Scoop...
Interview with Ezra Dreisbach, Quake Saturn programmer
Ezra: For Quake, all the levels were rebuilt by hand using our in house tool "Brew".
That level (Ziggurat Vertigo) was way too open to run well on the Saturn. One of the main problems with both the Quake and the Duke ports was that, on the Saturn, you can't just draw a huge flat wall as one huge flat polygon. For one thing there's no perspective correction, and some other limitations prevent you from even trying to work around that problem by dynamically subdividing the walls. So a flat wall has to be drawn as a mesh of quads. This means that huge walls have to be a lot of polygons, so huge open areas just can't work. One of the Duke Nukem secret levels had to be replaced for the same reason.
The exclusive secret levels were designed by the whole quake team.
That sounds like a mountainous task, rebuilding all the levels. It also means there are not even map sources that any of us could use today.
...You guys really did your homework! What an interesting read!
So, is there any way I'll eventually get to play those levels?
Shall I keep trying to get those pesky emulators to work?
Good work, golden_boy! Would be great to add this information to Wikipedia if you feel like it.
the_silent: I would not hope for it. :P
I guess trying to get one of the emulators to work is your only chance.
Try these bios roms: http://segaxtreme.net/content/emulation.html#saturn
Maybe there is some additional information how to set it up here: http://www.emulator-zone.com
In case you're successful, please post some more screenshots.
... I'll try for sure.
Even if Spirit says it's really not worth the effort, given the suckage of said levels.
But, to tell the truth, to me playing those levels is like finally having a way with that hugely arousing blonde that you saw in High School but just couldn't get next to 'cause she was, like 3 years older than you. Now she's 40. Those melons are sagging bad, but... What the hell! Can't be worse than a solitary night on your own, right? ;)
You get the idea....
By The Way...
... any of you can speak any italian?
Managed to get it running, tho....
... any of you can speak any italian?
Luckily not, considering I'd probably hear about that hugely arousing blonde from high school in Italian then.
:-) 40? Gosh you're ... grown up. 3 years older than me would be 36, which still is really acceptable.
Adding to Wikipedia:
Too much other stuff to do atm, used up all time to make demos for Ijed. ^^ And there would be mapping to do. ^^ ^^
Plus being pissed about the fact that this shop hasn't been able to deliver the Krait I ordered two weeks ago. GRRRR.
... no, I don't mean to tell anything more than what I said before in italian, why should I?
I only asked because "sega" in italian can have an... amusing meaning, especially coupled with names like Quake, or a number of other games' names...
And yes, I'm "grown up", in fact, I turn 38 this very day...
"Acceptable", what can I say, I would suggest you don't let hugely arousing blondes in their 40s scare ya, they can be quite amusing human beings, I assure you... ;))
Besides, they may have a trick or two you don't know up their sleeves... ;))))
Hehe, yes they may. But it's nice having something to look forward to :-)
happy birthday =)
Happy Birthday Distrans
I just turned 26 . . . still a we'en.
Well, Thanks, Guys..
.. Both of you..
I suppose Ijed meant "Happy Bday, the Silent" or do I share my birthdate with one of the mighty authors of Travail?
Anyway, thanks a lot, I'll raise a toast to you all tonight!
Sorry, you've got the same colour name :\
On the title screen showing the copyright to id, it also says copyright portions Sega. I assume that the portions are the exclusive levels, but I'm not sure.
They completely remade the levels, with id's agreement I would guess.
Anyone knows if this actually exists: http://forums.lostlevels.org/viewtopic.php?t=1337
(sega saturn quake beta)?
I played around with emulators again. SSF always hung. But I managed to get the FOSS Yabause to load it. You need a BIOS. Also use software rendering.
It does not really work. Models are not rendered & the sky is garbled and overlays parts of the screen.
I Would Try To Redo Them
Ok, very old thread, but why not.
Even if there are copyright issues, does anyone care nowadays?
Are at least a few people interested in playing them?
But for now i do not have the time to do it, would be something for next year (except i find those levels superior myself :P ).
What about the levels of N64 Quake 2?
Have those ever been ported to the pc?
Would love to play them in some decent engine with mouse and keyboard <3
I've bought a Sega Saturn only to play the Quake version, but I couldn't find the game at a reasonable price back then... Plus that the controller of the Saturn is very bad, so I've sold the console.
I would really like to play those special Saturn levels, maybe a guru from here can write a convertor for the maps.
And What About....
... finding a Saturn emulator that works over Windows ?
I know there exist these kind of stuff for Atari: http://www.cheek.org/atari/emulator.htm
, so maybe same exist for Saturn...
check this website maybe: http://www.emulator-zone.com/doc.php/saturn/
the Sega Saturn is very hard to emulate, I haven't managed to run Quake properly in an emulator. If someone does (first-hand), please share how exactly.
Im Gonna Try.....
Well I Had Some Success
Yabause seems to almost work. It loads the title, and plays some of the music, and allows you to create a savegame. But on pressing start to start a game, it crashes for me. On Windows 7. But it might be worth a try on a platform other than Windows.
Unless yabause significantly improved (in the last ~2 years), forget about it.
SSF would be your best bet but if I recall correctly I never got it to work well enough. You can find compatibility lists on http://www.segasaturn.org/
(Japan, US, PAL).
I actually just ran it perfectly in Cassini 3.0 - it seems that Cassini 3.0 itself can run it, but I have to open the frontend.exe application manually rather than using the start menu shortcuts. Also sometimes when I click on the frontend.exe application nothing happens. But it did load. And it did run. :)
When I click the start menu shortcut 'Cassini Frontend' nothing happens. The hourglass appears for a couple of seconds. When I click it a second time, it loads. Repeat.
That Link Is Bogus ^^
Thanks! Fails miserably in Wine but I will try in Windows later. How is the performance?
The Performance Was OK
Not exceptional, but relatively fluid. Didn't have too much of a chance to experiment TBH, I was at work! I'm home now, think I'll have another play.....
Well It's Not Very Stable
Doesn't get past the Quake menu on this computer. Just loops some sound effects with a black / blue screen. And sometimes on loading I just get booted to the Saturn menu.
Im still experimenting....
Heres A Few Emulators For Various OS
I got it working again, was playing e1m1 - the sound doesn't work on this computer - it does, but it's overlayed with static.
I've no idea how this emulation malarky works so just ignore me if I'm talking bollocks, but is it possible to snatch the BSP files for the "new" levels right out of the emulator version of the game and run them with PC Quake?
Nope, they used a different engine.
Blimey. So different that it didn't even use BSP files?
Yes, the Sega Quake engine is similar to Duke3D, all the maps were made again for that engine.
What about rebuilding the levels from the ground up using one of those map builders for PC Quake and make actual PC versions of the four Saturn levels. One of you can probably do that.
Sure, 15� per hour and I am your man.
Seems rather pointless to just recreate levels, the maps are just a part of the port, there is more that makes a full game.
And of course it is for gamepad controls.
read post #53
What's The Point
From what I saw on screenshots and footage, Saturn Quake has pretty much the same levels as the PC version, only simplified. Unlike Quake2 on N64 which actually has completely new and different levels.
Rebuilding is not required for all levels, they are the same as the levels on pc, but there are 4 special levels, those would require rebuilding. But rebuiliding only the leveles is not enough, those levels have special "things" so it would reuire a new mod (with new progs file and new models).
I didn't say rebuild all the levels, I was trying to say rebuild just the four Saturn levels from the ground up so there will be PC versions of them. That's the only way to get them to work on PC Quake because the original versions of the four levels were used on a different engine that the Saturn version used. I know is possible to make them. Sorry about the confusion.
Thats Also What I Meant
But footage of those four levels is needed first.
Videos, Screenshots, Layout.
All one can get.
@RaverX: What are those special "things" exactly?
Well From What I Noticed Playing The ROM
both start and e1m1 are different. They seem similar, but there are definate differences.
For example, there is only one hall facing you at the start of start, rather than three.
Also in e1m1 at the bottom of the first elevator, you don't have to turn right to go over the bridge, the bridge is infront of you (visblock fail).
I Can Play The Game On Two Machines Now.
One has an SSD and NVidia - it runs nicely.
One has no SSD and AMD/Radeon GFX. It runs OK, but often the ROM wont load, and the sound always fails. I can hear sounds on this machine but there is constant loud static to boot.
It's The Secret Levels
Here are some dark and low-quality videos:
Skimming through the videos I didn't see any of the new "things" that RaverX mentioned. Looks like all of could be made in vanilla Quake, and if there's anything new, it's probably not vital. Of course one would need more to work with, better and brighter videos and screenshots (ideally from a noclip perspective) and information on the skill settings. Perhaps there are some cheat modules available for the Saturn emulators?
Well then, Ricky. Go map, I guess!
There's a couple new textures they added in the "Hell's Aerie" level:
Textures: The night sky and the wooden bridges.
There's a couple new textures and sound effects they added in "The Coliseum" level:
Textures: The wrestling ring and the faces of the enemies on the wall.
Sound Effects: The bell ringing and the crowd cheering.
I think that's all the new textures and sound effects they added in the new levels.
I found another new texture in "The Coliseum" level, the circle lights that are above the ring and surrounding it as well.
I'm glad to see that the artwork in sega quake not only settles that fiends have eyes, but also that rangers have fingers - a result so surprising that before now nobody even dare suggest it.
Is the delay on the grenade trigger slightly longer than PC quake?
Fiends Don't Have Eyes Though.
There's something wrong with the skin.
Of course fiends have eyes.
No they don't and they look retarded when they do.
The Original Skin Has Them
Ever added eyes to the original fiend skin AFAIK. Badly drawn ones in hirez packs I don't know about.
It's the Shambler and Vore which are blind. The Shambler is also furry according to Romero.
The horns don't cover them up.
Can never see them in game = don't have 'em :)
Does ZealousQuakeFan Have Eyes?
Fiend eyes are visible on the side of their heads, level with their horns - run the game and look for them : - p
I don't no target and wander around Fiends to examine them to see if the eye on their skin is visible, I play with them like you're supposed to.
What Is Interesting...
Is that on the skin there is a piece where the eyes are black as if the fiend was supposed to blink (00) (--) (00)
What About The Corpses!?
And THIS is why Quake in low resolution is perfect.
Not a terrible skin, but the mesh wasn't made for it, which makes it look gash.
Doom3 is a good example of lopoly meshes with hirez textures. Still hipoly compared to the Quake ones though.
Curses my plot is uncovered :(
On the subject of the actual thread btw... I assume the N64 version had original levels too?
I think it just had cut down ones. Some corridors were blocked off and the entrances to the secret levels were moved, or removed.
It was only two player as well as I remember.
Bit hazy on the details, but don't think there was anything new.
No it didn't, the N64 version only had the PC levels. It almost had all of them, but Midway had to take out six of them because of cartridge space.
N64 Doom is a particularly unique specimen then
Sounds right. But I don't think it was the secret levels that were removed, they were instead put into the normal map order and their entrances blocked.
Did this version have colored lights, or am I confusing it with the q2 console version?
They took out The Grisly Grotto, The Installation, The Ebon Fortress, The Wind Tunnels, The Sewage System and Hell's Atrium. They kept the secret levels as secret levels, but they moved two of them to different levels. Yes, the N64 version did have colored lights.
I don't know if there were technical reasons like those being the largest or most taxing maps, but if you were removing maps from quake on merit that's a pretty awful choice of maps to cut. The Wind Tunnels & The Sewage System would be sorely missed
God knows what was behind the decisions there.
Is anybody going to make PC versions of the Saturn levels?
I contacted one of the administrators from inside3D a month ago asking if anybody ever made PC versions of the levels, he told me someone did made rips of the levels. I looked around for them and I had no luck of finding them.
I doubt it. You could try offering a bounty like Spirit does for some stuff but any map more than a quick hack-job would be a fair amount of work. The mapper would also need to be somewhat familiar with the sega maps.
Converting them is probably a big undertaking. Unless there are ways to analyze binary data, without specs on the sega format it would be very difficult to make sense of the files.
Maps are stored as just one long series of byte values. When maps are loaded, the engine knows how many bytes to load for each bit of information it needs because it has been programmed in by the designers of the map format. Without that header info, you have no way of knowing anything beyond basic easily identifiable data. The minute the format deviates, you would get lost.
reverse-engineering the levels would be an interesting challenge for a serious hacker. Similar to figuring out byte offsets for ROM hacks of old NES games.
...like a job for Inertia :)
It's more fun and easier to just make new maps, at least for mappers.
Most ~1996 maps are crampt and b0rky by today's standards, in general mappers now want to do things grander and more complex than was possible back then.
I know a lot of mappers today like to make new maps instead of remaking old maps, but it would be nice if one of them can make PC versions of the four Saturn levels. A lot of people been wanting to see PC versions of the levels for years and no one didn't make them yet.
the main problem is that most of them dont have both a saturn and quake for it, to make a closer examination of the levels, which is imho essential for redoing them.
And as it seem's emulators arent working for most people too.
I've been noticing people are having problems with the Saturn emulators. There are four Saturn emulators that I know of, Satourne, SSF, Yabause and Saturnin and a bunch of people did uploaded the bin and cue files of the game so it could work on them. Hopefully somebody will be able to get the game and one of the emulators to work right so they can start working on the levels, we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
Apparently in the American version of Saturn Quake, Purgatorium had a green sky texture with a rain effect.
Here's a video of it:
For a mapper I think the quality of the maps would be an issue.. would be for me anyway. I wouldn't take much pleasure from recreating something I don't personally like. Particularly if the audience wanted slavish adherence to the originals.
I say this remembering that most of the exclusive extra stuff I've seen in ports was pretty lame
Nahh I Mean
You could 'remix' a map, enhancing brushwork and texturing and gameplay and everything, but there are better maps out there, and better reasons to remix maps that aren't from versions of games that had to be ported onto inferior hardware, downgraded engines etc.
I just mean what would be the point in remaking an unremarkable, little known map. For what purpose. Rather go create something original and better.
I know these maps are old and a little known and a lot of you mappers prefer of making new or remixed maps but it would be really nice if one of you can make near replicas of the Saturn levels for vanilla Quake, a lot of us Quake fans been wanting to see PC versions of these levels for a long time. You only have to make them once and that's it. I named four Saturn emulators you can mess around with, you can find the bin and cue files of Saturn Quake around the internet, I made a few posts on here that tells everyone what new textures and sound effects they added to the levels, I posted a link to a video that shows the American version of Purgatorium because it has a green sky texture and a rain effect that wasn't in the PAL version and negke posted links to videos that shows the rest of the levels. We pretty much gave you mappers all the tools you need to make the maps. This is the best we can do to help you.
And Now They Are Obliged?
That's a great idea ! When do you start mapping ?
I'm guessing you're not a mapper, which is why you keep asking people here for such a big favour. By the looks of those videos the brushwork in these maps is pretty amateurish, so perhaps it would be a good project for you to learn mapping on?
We'll all really appreciate it when you're finished. Don't take too long though please, thanks.
I don't know what people are talking about, I'm not a mapper. That stuff is way too hard for me, I don't know anything about how to make a map for Quake. If it's the way I wrote that paragraph, I'm sorry if I confused some people. I wrote it because I got a little annoyed that we gave the mappers all the info they need to make the maps and they still turn around and say "We're still not going to make them, we prefer to make new maps.", it's like what's the point of giving them info if there going to keep doing that. It's not a big deal for me if the maps won't be made, I tried my best to get a mapper to make them but I had no luck at all. I pretty much giving up at this point.
it's interesting that you seem to feel that giving unsolicited information is some kind of payment in exchange for a service.
that's a very bizarre point of view.
that's like giving a guy your bottle cap collection and being surprised that he doesn't want to give you his watch.
you may be interested in the sega maps, but you need a mapper who is interested in them in order for them to have incentive to do all that work.
this is like basic human nature here... i'm not even sure if i just got trolled into typing this out.
a lot of us Quake fans been wanting to see PC versions of these levels for a long time.
Really? Are you sure you're not just saying that? You and who else? Most of the dudes here have been around for a long time...
I posted a link to a video that shows the American version of Purgatorium because it has a green sky texture and a rain effect that wasn't in the PAL version and negke posted links to videos that shows the rest of the levels.
This makes it sound as though you are in league with Negke. I'm sorry, but Negke has been around for ages too, mapped a lot of really smart maps (100% original ones), I can't see why he would condone this sort of 'project'.
The Sega maps are trimmed down because of hardware restrictions. This makes 'gameplay' awkward because it is hard to get a lot of monsters on the screen at once. As a result a lot of the Sega Quake environments are no geared up to having lots of monsters on the screen at once (small rooms). This makes the gameplay possibilities more limited....
because it has a green sky texture and a rain effect that wasn't in the PAL version
OK, we could achieve this effect if we wanted to. Infact it has been done. Multiple times. But that really doesn't justify making a PC version of the Sega Quake map, does it?
Not to be mean man, but honestly, if you want to do it, get a copy of Worldcraft or Radient or BSP Editor, and have a go! You seem to have the drive to get these maps made, you seem to be familiar with them. We will be here to give you help and advice with regards to using your editor, fixing compiler errors, general stuff like that. We will even play and review your map(s), should you make any. But right now, we are looking for something different. 'Tis all.
Ricky Is Just Being Mean
Seriously though, it's indeed not as easy a job as it may seem at a glance. The maps may be fairly small and simple, but remaking them takes more than just looking at a low-res video or emulated version and then clicking around a bit in the editor. First, one would have to meticulously note and draw the layout, scale/distance information, entities and difficulty settings, and style elements - which is an awkward affair at best, considering there's no noclip cheat (possibly no way to switch directly to the bonus levels, either) and only restricted controls. Then build it while always cross-checking with the originals and trying to maintain a certain quality standard at the same time. This isn't a thing you do in just a couple of hours.
It would certainly be nice to have PC versions of those maps for archival reasons, or a sake of completeness. If this was a place like Doomworld, a remake project would be well underway already. Alas, there are only few active mappers left here, and with very limited time. So it's understandable why people don't automatically get all excited about remaking maps they barely know (have no history with, so to speak), and especially on request. Many may be busy working on their own maps which already eats up enough time as it is. Maybe one day... but keep your expectations reasonable.
I tried to load the game in a Saturn emulator, but it seemed unnecessarily complicated. Does one need a bios file, too?
Yes it does, I found a download link for them from emuparadise. Here's the link: http://www.emuparadise.me/biosfiles/Saturn.zip
I think the best option is one of you bring this idea to Doomworld, QuakeOne or Inside3D. This way there's a better chance of the levels being made because there will be a lot more people that are willing to do it.
How about you try that yourself?
Would you like your shoes shined in the meantime?
... looks like sarcasms are now leading :P