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Q1SP: Deja Vu - Six Map Mini Episode
OK, Im throwin it to the wolves cause Ive had enough, and I wanna start a new project. Deja Vu v1.0 is released, and downloadable here:

http://shub-hub.com/files/maps_singleplayer/DejaVu10.zip

Single Player only and requires Quoth mod. Its basically the result of a lot of head scratching that I have chucked together in the last six weeks or so. It has been described to me as being a bit doomish, it all in a base/tech sort of feel, the last level was a bit inspired by aliens/alien3 and used elements of kells fury wad.

Screenshots are here:

http://shub-hub.com/files/images/DejaVu001.jpg
http://shub-hub.com/files/images/DejaVu002.jpg
http://shub-hub.com/files/images/DejaVu003.jpg
http://shub-hub.com/files/images/DejaVu004.jpg
http://shub-hub.com/files/images/DejaVu005.jpg

If anyone feels like being really nice and hosting it anywhere except for the shub-hub then that would be marvelous I guess.

Problems with the Darkplaces engine running it cause some of the entity spawning isnt aligned the same as I intended, (things like player falling through a train at the start of a map) it isnt entirely flawless, but I would hope it would provide at least an hour of entertainment for the average quaker.

OK, Im ready for all of your 'comments', or lack of them, or sarcasm, threats, whatever, hit me!
404 
all screens are 404, please fix or give proper url 
Fixed Links 
Oops! 
Never realised the links were gonna be case sensitive. 
Aw... 
...Guess I should have sent you some feedback sooner?
I'll post some comments on the final version, then... 
Sorry 
If theyres anything major I may well do a v1.1, but basically, I re-hashed the teleporter room for the start map, and realised that I would end up re-doing almost every level at that rate, so it was best to cut it off, and start something new. Compare the teleporter room on the start map on the beta you have and the one on this version, and you'll see what I mean. 
 
OK, Im ready for all of your 'comments', or lack of them, or sarcasm, threats, whatever, hit me!

have some confidence in your work. not ORL-level hubris of course, but we're not here just to rag on you and act superior to "noobs", even though this community does come across that way sometimes. 
Same As The Silent Said In Post #4 
got the beta on monday, it�s thursday, and as I write I was getting ready for some testing. Maybe you guys should say how urgent it is in the future...

(same happened with Mikko�s "Distractions"; tested around on the 2nd version for a good part of an evening, sent off the comments, an hour later I see he released it).

Anyway, good to see some new Quoth content :) 
 
Sielwolf:
"(same happened with Mikko�s "Distractions"; tested around on the 2nd version for a good part of an evening, sent off the comments, an hour later I see he released it)."

Yes, but I wasn't rushing it or anything. There was plenty of time between receiving the second report and releasing the map - plenty of time to read the report, consider the points you made and then release the final version. 
Finished... 
The Nightmare setting was a joke - I died maybe twice during the entire thing. The whole thing took me maybe 25 minutes. But it was fun nevertheless (I really don't even like hard levels/games).

(I usually don't even play on Nightmare but this time I just happened to find the secret route and thought "oh, what the hell"...)

I missed the Lighting gun so there were plenty of cells around without me being able to pick them up.

Architecture seemed pretty basic - not bad but nothing managed to drew my attention either. Outdoor areas were the best, especially in the last level. Some elevators behaved so that it was quite difficult to exit them. 
Hmm 
Why are almost all the maps boxed? Dv5 has 63 lightmaps as a result, a few more and it would've been AllocBlock quality time ... 
 
ok RickyT23 have been missing speedmapping events ;) those maps look like speedmaps :) some had nice details like last level enjoy it a lot! gameplay was easy even on hard but fun neverless!!!

hope to see more from you! was a fun pack to play and i will replay it for sure ;) 
OMG 
September 07!

what a month!
gotta test this pack tonight :) 
An OK Pack 
The things I liked most were the train, the catarpillar 'crane', and the outside area in dv5. Dv3 was my favorite map from the pack.

The maps were fairly small for the most part and not very hard on skill 2, probably because there were so many yellow armors lying around. Found at least one secret in each.

They show progression in quality indeed, however all but the start map are boxed, which is a very bad form for a release. Visually, they are OK, but all have a number of plain areas with room for improvement.

Often monsters looked in the wrong direction or spawned too far away from the player which made it easy to pick them off - it would have been better to trigger them upon teleportation so they woke up and moved towards the player immediately. Trigger_secrets can have a message field as well; having them fire an extra message trigger is confusing - as well as using the secret sound for regular centerprints. Most of the buttons used a wrong texture (or were at least missing their +a_ version). In the first map, the sound value assigned to the Quad secret door is invalid. Dv5 end gibbing was badly timed. What's with the crazy caps in all text messages??
Tip: Make the chairs, or their legs, func_walls or lift them one unit up from the floor to avoid unnecessary face splitting.

Looking forward to your next release. Just wait for and consider the betatesters' comments next time (after all, you posted your request 3 or 4 times)... 
Aah, Yes, The +a_ Buttons 
I read about that on a website yesterday. I didnt even know thats how it worked!

Also, boxed levels. Does that mean that I just drew a massive rectangular brush around each level, then hollowed it so that the f@kn map would compile?

I started on a new map yesterday, so far just a building on the surface of a planet with rocks all around, uneven ground to walk on, but its got lots of curves on the building. The only program that would compile it was TxQbsp, all the others I have wouldnt. Is this because, I carve my rock brushes into eachother?

Anyhoo, I did read some good reports from beta-testers, and thought about doing masses to try and get it purfik, but I just ended up doing some of the major things then deciding it was best to start something new!

Check out these comparisons of the same room in the beta v0.9 and then this v1.0:

http://shub-hub.com/files/images/dvstart1.jpg
http://shub-hub.com/files/images/dvstart2.jpg

I just wanted to start something new!

If i think about it for not very long, I can already think of a few things I could do to improve the maps, like spawn those two fiends closer to the player on dv5, or make it so you cant jump through the window at the top of the first platform on dv3, allowing you to miss half of the map, or putting some bobs in the large atrium in dv2, but I figured it plays well enough for me, so start something new, or I'll be at it for weeks.

Or maybe patience is a virtue I dont have lots of?! (hehe)

func_plats p@ss me off, is there a way of using two buttons to toggle them up and down? i.e. press one button then theres a delay of 2 and the platform goes up, stays up, then if you press it again theres a delay of 2 then the platform comes down, stays down, with two identical buttons, one at the top of the plat and another at the bottom; or can anyone suggest a system that would have as good of an effect?

Also did anyone find the nail-trinity-damage thing in dv3? Thats my fave secret in the whole thing! 
Lunaran 
I can handle people taking the mickey out of the way I write things, like saying jolly good for example, but to be honest to submit something to this forum when I've never done so before is quite nerve wracking. I play guitar and sing in a band too, in my backwards little town over here, and that IS nerve wracking! Espacially to a small audience who are just stood watching and not dancing.

I had a look at your website BTW yesterday, and your maps are FKn awesome! The map you have on the cover, like a 1930s style industrial warehouse type thingy, with pumping machinary or whatever it is sticking up through the floor (using the Quake4 engine i believe it said) just looks ace, like what Id imagine Half-Life 3 to look like I guess.

My point is I know I need help (in more than one way) and I do appreciate constructive criticism, but I have a small fear I guess that people will just say 'its crap'... 
Don't Worry, They Are Not Crap 
Yes, "boxed" means enclosing the map in a large room for vis to work. It's like putting your broken car on a truck just to be able to drive. I assume you know how 'pointfile' works? Tracking down the leaks can be a real hassle, but it's essential for clean mapping. Besides, boxing only increases compile time, file size and engine limits unnecessarily. Sometimes (e.g. when it comes to misaligned brushes) you can help yourself by placing a brush on the back side of a wall or structure spanning over its entire length to seal a more or less invisible leak.

If by carve my rock brushes into eachother you mean using Worldcraft's carve too, then yes, it's a prime source of trouble and be avoided. If you mean that you move the rock brushes into each other (so they intersect), it's ok.

Use func_doors with the 'toggle' flag for lifts that stay in position until being triggered again.

Or maybe patience is a virtue I dont have lots of?! You better do something about it then, as mapping usually takes A LOT of it. ;) 
Thanks 
...for the info on platforms. I could never figure out how it was done. But all of a sudden it seems clear to me.

As for 'rock brushes', do you mean that if you have two brushes that overlap eachother i.e. one part of each brush is inside of the other and you havent carved one of them into the other, that works OK? 
Is It Possible 
for me to get the zipped source map files for this pak? 
RickyT23 
aguirRe has a masochistic joy for fixing up maps ;)

Also, I haven't played V1.0 just yet, I'll run through it sometime over the weekend to see the changes.

Congrats on the release. 
You Are Welcome To 
Although I think perhaps my technique for doing rough outdoor terrain is questionable! Be prepared for a bit of a shock. Or to laugh. Still, you live, you learn. Still wanna see it? 
Overlapping Brushes 
work. There might be a warning message occasionally, but in most cases it doesn't cause any problems. 
Source Maps 
Yes, please. 
 
September 07! what a month!

climate change/weather probably... no beach for me this year either. Raincoat.

do you mean that if you have two brushes that overlap eachother i.e. one part of each brush is inside of the other and you havent carved one of them into the other, that works OK?

The original id maps are full of that. They practically used it as a feature! Hey, I can have two floors for the price of one? Two ceilings too?

That's how much they used it. There is a water brush in e1m2 that goes practically through the whole level. So anywhere you see water in that level, it's most likely the SAME brush!

=) 
Busy With Other Things At The Moment 
but I wanted to say these are some pretty decent little levels. More later. 
Enjoyable 
Classic Quake style. Good brushwork and lightning, as well as entity placement. Perhaps a bit easy even on hard, but there are certainly some tough challenges at the end.

The final map was, as everyone else said, the best in the pack, which clearly shows your mapping skills have improved over the course of the episode.

If this weren't in Quoth format, I would consider adding these maps to the RQuake and FvF server. They have potential.

Keep up the good work, hope to see more soon. 
Ebuild And Water? 
Maybe this is stupid question, but is there transparent water? (without `r_novis 1'). I'm using darkplaces to play this mod and it it solid as concrete.

2nd: I've made an ebuild for Gentoo Linux, it can be found here: http://roslin.kicks-ass.net/download/gentoo/overlay/games-fps/quake1-dejavu/
If this mod works with Qrack or Joequake (some reports?) I will add support for them to the ebuild.
(BTW there's more quake1-* ebuilds for Gentoo users!) 
Thanks Ricky 
I checked the pack out - stopped at the end battle in the final room, but I'd say overall I don't agree with everyone saying it's too easy on hard. then again everyone loves the new quoth monsters and I don't, so maybe I just play differently. It definitely seems like you started to get a better handle on scale and such, although I think your next step should be to start designing and building rooms specifically for the monster placement, rather than just making rooms first and then populating them with whatever.

nice work. 
Tansparent Water, Darkplaces 
I havent figured out how to do the whole transparent water thing. Theres not much water in the whole thing really, but there is a little I guess. Isnt there a way of doing it where you just run something on the bsp files as they are? If anyone wants to do some trick to make the water transparent then Please go for it!

I tried the episode using darkplaces, and it was OK until I got to the start of dv3 when the player kept spawning inside the train right at the start, is if the info_player_start was being read as being 32 units lower or so?!?!

Shame really, cause I was using it on a 3.2ghz Pentium D w 256mb ATI 1300X, and it looked N.I.C.E. The framerate kept suffering when I put the realtime world lights on in the last room on the start map, I think thats cause its quite a complex room and there are a few special effect lights there (slow strong pulse).

OH well, Ive started a new map, with the aim of making one rather large map instead of six smaller ones. Im not pulling any punches with the brush count either, although ive read the tutorial on doing curves without using the worldraft carve tool, so that should help keep it a bit lower than what it couldve been.

BTW, I think Quoth is the way forwards in quake. I dont know what Quoth 2 is going to be all about, but I think being able to add a wider range of monsters without being a programmer is great, and I think the monsters fit in with the original quake theme fantastically.

Right, off for breakfast. . . 
. . . At Twilight? 
I don't know about DarkPlaces, been a long time since I used it, but standard 'wateralpha 0 - 1' should work for any map thats been watervised.

So wateralpha 0.5 produces 50% transparent water, but if its not been vised then you'll get HOM (hall of mirrors) effect. You can revis a bsp from outside, check aguirRe's documentation if that's the case.

Qouth2 is basicly expanding on the base enemy set, with alot of other neat features going in as well. 
Transparent Water 
You could always use "r_novis 1". Few maps actually should be played that way (transparent water) though, most will look better without and sometimes you would badly spoil secrets (eg e2m4 near the start zombie). 
Transparent Water 
I don't know about DarkPlaces, been a long time since I used it, but standard 'wateralpha 0 - 1' should work for any map thats been watervised.

They look like not watervised to me.


You could always use "r_novis 1".

I know about this, but with this turned on framerate drops noticeably...

PS. and there is some water. I saw one right after spawn on the startmap. (: 
Werl, 
Turning off the vis will fuck just about any map.

Like I say, there is a way to vis a bsp, I've just never used it, but I'm sure aguirRe's documentation and tools can help:

http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/

But there's not that much water in the maps - is it worth it? 
Making Maps 
Is it a lot, or a little... I think it should be watervised anyway. Not that I'm like "no, I refuse to play it", but it should be a standard optimization (if that's a good name for it) for maps.
That would be a good thing to do. That's my opinion.

And about the pack, it's "Deja Vu v1.0" so it can be watervised and updated to v1.1. (; 
<: 
Well, look at Travail - there were plenty of areas that I would have liked to have seen watervis, but the huge size and complexity of the maps made it infeasible.

Currently I'm experimenting wth info_commands to dynamically change the water alpha depending on where you are - the teleporter 1 lava 0.9 water 0.4, or something like that. 
Little More Offtopic (: 
Why is is infeasible? It takes a lot of time to made it? It isn't hard, with all this tools, right?

I'm not familiar with this, I did watervising (or re-watervis) with aguiRe's tools (as far as I can remember). It took *a lot* of time. Looking from the other side: maping also takes huge ammount of time, so, in the end, why not to spend a day or two more to watervis them? (: 
 
Maybe because transparent water is no "instant and always positive feature"? 
Well... 
I'm somewhat on the fence about transparent water.

Personally, I think that the creator of the map should be respected, that the player should attempt to experience it as intended. I design my maps for opaque water. Water is a gameplay element, and whether monsters can see you and shoot at you through the water matters, and whether you can see them matters, and whether you can see the secret health under the water makes a difference too.

On the other hand, players seem to love transparent water. So is your ego as an artist more important than the whims of the audience? If people want transparent water, or to replace all your textures with TGAs from the retexturing project, or play it in a mod that makes all the monsters have altered AI, then why try to stop them? I once had a roommate that liked to play doom in god mode, because he just enjoyed shooting the monsters and didn't like dying. Look at all the posts where people say "morrowind was unplayable until you install these 3 mods" or that people consider CPMA to be the true quake 3 experience.

Players like to make changes, remix things, modify their gameplay to maximize their perceived enjoyment. Perhaps letting players do what they want improves the overall fan base for a product, and in the long run keeps the community more alive? 
Apart From The Gameplay Aspect, 
opaque water is sometimes used on purpose out of technical considerations. When compiling maps for transparent water, the water surface doesn't block vis anymore and everything beneath it is rendered as well, thus increasing r_speeds (lowering performance). Of course, modern machines can handle it but that doesn't mean the mapper should not care for performance in certain situations.
Besides, transparent lava looks silly. 
Other Technicals 
Another reason transparent water wouldn't work so well in a few of the travail maps is the waterfalls. Since they're func_illusionary, they'd be visible through the water and wouldn't go transparent. 
Oh 
I always presumed people played with transparent water. I do mainly because it looks so much less bad. I suppose it might let you see secrets that are supposed to be hidden underwater, but I really couldn't care less about that. 
Erm, Seriously. . . . 
When I got my copy of quake from the id website, not 2 or so months ago I found some little patch that adds transparent water to the original quake levels! Yippee! Im as much into eye candy as any other player. How do you vis your levels so that they have transparent water? Somebody tell me and I will certainly do it at some point!

I doubt it would affect gameplay much, due to the design of the levels.

Qrack is nice for eye candy BTW, also Fuhquake with the Quake Retexturing Project textures installed. I prefer the textures in the latter.

Not all of these things are quoth friendly tho. I personally think quoth should be a priority when playing these levels for the added gameplay. You could play them in standard quake if you dont mind all of the error messages on the console when you load a map, cause there are no quoth world entites, and all of the monsters teleport in the old-fashioned way (I couldnt figure out the new way). Some of the monsters are unkillable, due to poor arrangement! 
 
Use aguirRe's tools (see ijed's post). Txqbsp automatically produces a .prt for transparent water. In Treeqbsp you have to enable it manually with -transwater (as well as -transsky for nonsolid sky brushes). 
I Don't Know 
what -transsky in TreeQBSP does actually, you definitely don't need that to get proper sky brushes for sunlight to work. 
Deja Vu Now Mirrored At PlanetPhillip! 
Yippee!

http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/deja-vu-for-quake-1/

Wow

Does this guy have an ID at this forum? 
Quick Comment: 
Fairly fun and some interesting ideas. Rather simple in some places but in others there are some really cool design ideas - expand onto those and you'll be a winner. The gameplay was very easy in general and could do with some beefing up although the non-base monsters were good. The ending didn't work for me unfortunately. Keep it going this is a great start. 
Shambler 
This looks suspiciously like a return to reviewing, in some form - ? 
A Return To... 
Absolute laziness and providing the bare minimum of feedback to show I played the damn thing.

There has been some great Quake action recently, really liking it. Big up everyone! 
Shambler: I Like The Way 
you 'reviewed' all of the new SP stuff simultaneously, like you just binged out and now its over.

PS Thanks for the positive feedback.
I have a new map on the way, I might post some shots tomorrow, but it could be a couple of days before its ready for testing, cause its a massive wide open space with tall-tall buildings, so compile time will be H.O.R.R.I.B.L.E!
What would people think to testing a map that has been fast-vis-ed? 
Ricky 
I always ask people to beta test fast vised map.... so no worry... :P 
Ricky 
Well, i just played the map, and I found it interesting in term of design layout, and globally architecture. There some nice touch here and there.
I found the gameplay a little bit easy, but it was cool nevertheless..

Keep it up ! 
Alright 
I just remembered I made demos until qrack (used it as it supports auto demo record even after reloading) crashed. I haven't played the rest yet but I really should. :)
http://shub-hub.com/files/demos_singleplayer/spirit_dejavu10.zip

I liked the ceilings!
I did not like the sounds neg!ke already mentioned. 
Does Quoth Run On Qrack? 
I didnt think it did. 
Re: Quoth Query 
Quoth on Qrack? Quite a Question. A Quick Qonclusion Qould Quiet Quizzing Quakers and Quell Quarrels. 
I Always Thought 
Q Rack is a weird name for an engine. It's like a rack of quake materials? 
I Think Its Pronounced 'crack' 
And does anybody believe they have managed to run -hipnotic -game quoth successfully? 
Qrack 
I've not tried running it, but if it doesn't work and you can describe the error, send some details to me(e-mail in profile). I can take a look and see if it's possible to fix for the next version of quoth. 
Qrack 
Came with deathmatchmaker right? Maybe, but it's been too long and my memory chips r fuzzy. 
No 
It's an "enhanced" Joequake, got some nice and some bad thing. Not for a first choice for singleplayer but good enough for "just-so" playing. And it's autodemo feature is very nice.
http://www.quakeone.com/qrack/ 
AguirRe... 
Doesn't your version of glQuake allow for running Quoth and a custom PAK from the commandline? If yes, could you please tell me how to run this PAK without renaming any files? K-Thx :) 
It's 
-quoth in the commandline or -id1 for other packs. Just put whichever it is and afterwards -game.

Read the docs! 
Generic_maps 
You may still have to rename the Quoth add-on pak files, but you can now put them in their own mod directory instead of messing up the quoth dir.

In the case of Deja Vu, rename the pak file to pak0, put it in a new dir called dejavu and add -quoth -game dejavu to the cmd line.

The engine will then first look in the game dir (here dejavu) for resources, then in quoth and finally in id1. This makes addition of new quoth add-ons very structured and follows the same behaviour as the older -hipnotic, -rogue and -nehahra options. 
Cheers, Aguirre! 
:) 
OH 
I thought I needed to write:

-hipnotic -game quoth

'cause the Quoth pack required the -hipnotic cause it usus the hud layout of Scourge of Armagon. Thats what it said in the readme. I figured it was only for the plasma cannon and the hammer, and the extra powerups?? 
Well 
why did you released it as a 6 maps pack, while you could make it a one or two levels of bigger size. I don't understand the maps with <30 monsters there.

overall pretty nice oldskool pack. but too easy for me 
 
but too easy for me

Heh, poor Ricky. There's no pleasing them, eh? 
 
at least some mappers coments is maps and not othres... 
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