News | Forum | People | FAQ | Links | Search | Register | Log in
Remix Quake Mapping Challenge
New Quake mapping challenge in the tradition of good ol' 100brush and Coagula contests. Only this time the theme is "remix".

Game: Quake, sp

Theme: remix/remake of an original Quake sp map.

You cant take first episode E1M*maps though (because Kell is doing them).

get original map sources here: http://rome.ro/2006/10/quake-map-sources-released.html
or http://www.speeds.quaddicted.com/quake_map_source.zip

Mod: no mod

Engine : Fitz ( so go ahead use a skybox if you want)

Submission deadline is 1st June so you have more than 2 months.
(I think its more than enough time, considering you have small maps and the source files to build on. But if you dont think so - let me know )

Judges: yes there will be few, to review and rate the maps (metlslime is one of them)
Im not judging, I will be making a map myself.

people interested so far: Zwiffle, Trinca, Zombie, GomJabbar, Spirit

maybe Voodoochopstiks, Gibbie, Neg|ke�

Post comments if you want to take part.
Please state what map you are going to make. No more than two people on the same map please

(or catch me on IRC quakenet #terrafusion)
 
This sounds fun. What constitutes a remix? Are we expected to add a bunch of new play area? Add decorations to the existing map?

I guess I don't know the requirements here. I'm interested in taking part though. 
 
ach. i have enough mapping to do already but this is tempting...

i'd have chosen e1m4 first as well :(

*thinks about it* 
I Don't See The Reason For This: 
You cant take first episode E1M*maps though (because Kell is doing them).

Oh noooo it would be soooooooo terrible if there were multiple remixes of the same map.... would only be interesting to see multiple takes on the same map. 
Thinking About It.. 
..i've just have a brief wonder about the rest of quake looking for inspiration and like the idea of e1 maps not being allowed.. basically because they're the ones everyone already knows inside out, and also because it's probably the neatest designed episode in the pack, thus would benefit the least from a remake. sizewise the maps are probably the smallest too (8 excluded) and would offer the least playtime.

i'd especially like to see remakes of the later e4 maps, they should be pretty easy to add detail to and have some really large open areas that alot could be done with.

other maps that would work well:

the wind tunnels - lots of large rooms that could be decked out to look spectacular

the wizard's manse - has a great interconnecting layout & a potentially impressive frontpiece to boot

the dismal oubliette - probably the longest level in the whole game that would make the most complete single-map experience

the underearth - great atmosphere & tidy design that shouldn't be too hard to work with

satan's dark delight - i'd love to see someone's take on the room with the floaty platforms


hope there's some inspiration there for people. also i think the deadline is a little tight personally, but i'll wait to see what others have to say about it. 
Great Idea 
I was wondering when someone was going to start a remix project. I am a bit busy myself so will not be taking part, but I'm looking forward to seeing the results.

the E4 maps are the most in need of remaking, being by far the ugliest in the game, but also have interesting gameplay and abstract themes so would probably be fun to remake.

On another note, I want to do sp remixes of all the DM levels at some point, so maybe we should do a DM level SP remix pack at some point in the future (definitely not concurrently with this one!). I did DM3 already and was working on DM1 a little while ago, though I became a bit busy at work and stopped. Also, I remember distrans or someone mentioning something about a DM2 remake, which is the other obvious candidate for a nice SP remake along with DM3. 
Cool :) 
if any of them turn out half as decent as dm3rmx then that would be splendiverous. although dm6 could prove difficult to expand on 
 
OK, I'll take E3M4 (Satan's Dark Delight) if it's available. I've always liked that level but thought it was a little drab.

So, again, what are the rules here? Are we just dressing the place up? Does the core gameplay have to remain intact and you just make the experience look cooler? What engine limits are we concerned with? Does it have to run in software quake (aka r_speeds <= 800)? 
 
e2m1 = mine 
Ok I'm Giving.. 
e2m5 a shot 8) 
Uh 
There is a remake project.

I have map e3m1-e3m7 in beta with their own progs dat and all made from scratch (not built from the originals).

The changes in the progs dat are mostly AI but with a chainsaaw replacing the axe (because it's shit).

I go on holiday for a month in May so won't be able to have all the maps ready by June, at least not how I'd want.

They'll run fine on id1 - the changes are fairly cosmetic, as I say. Not too bothered if others make maps from e3, but if this is going to be a 'full' remake (ie. the entire game) then its possible to package everything together when finished, finally including a start map and shub's pit.

My original idea was to make each episode and have the episode's not built blocked off by the shareware barriers saying something like 'under construction'.

But I prefer to go at my own pace - seven maps is alot, and I want them to be good. Already I think I've superceeded Warp Spasm. 
Ugh 
Willem, I was gonna take Satan's Dark Delight! NoooooooooOOO!!!!!!~

Are only id maps allowed or can we do remakes of custom maps? Not that it matters, I'll attempt an E4 map most likely anyway. 
Count Me In 
I feel I have at least one more version of Underurth in me, and if it isn't taken by someone already, that be my baby 
Zwiffle: 
Please state what map you are going to make. No more than two people on the same map please

you can still bag it :p

although i'd prefer as many dif maps as possible 
Respect. 
Good idea, I've really liked E1M1 and E1M2 rmx. Good luck to all involved. 
 
I think I will "officially" nab up Azure Agony (E4M7) for my remixing pleasure.

Now, another thing - are these maps intended to be stand alone maps, or are the intended to be played at there particular point in the episode? I would think they should be considered stand alone maps, but maybe others had the other idea. Just wanted some clarification. 
Man, This Is Tempting 
but I know I won't work on it. can't abandon seven projects for an eighth. :/

The Crypt of Decay seems like it would be awesome fun, though. although my last quake map also had a big tower with extendable bridges ... 
 
Yeah, I was wondering that as well. Because starting E3M4 with the shotgun and axe kinda sucks. :) 
 
ok e2m2 for me

"the ogre citatel" 
 
This is fun! I've never worked on a remix before. Can we add secrets and things? What is allowed in a remix and what isn't? 
Well 
I'd assume anything that doesn't completely modify the map so that it's unrecognizable from it's original incarnation is banned. If you look at e1m1rmx and e1m2quoth you'd see that, while there are some layout changes, additional areas/secrets, the maps are still recognizable. So I would assume that you can add secrets/things, change some of the layout etc as long as the map can be identified as a remake of the source.

/end pedantic rant 
E1_QMX 
I am doing a Quoth 2 remake of episode 1. For a while this was the counterpart of Ijed's episode 3. He chose to drop Quoth along the way, and he's more experienced so he's way ahead. I actually started last year but made practically all the mistakes that were possible to make. It's getting off the ground though. The style is very different from Kell's and it is planned from the ground up as a coherent episode.

It's fine with me if anyone else does other interpretations of the original maps though. It'll just add fun to compare the different mappers' interpretations. Believe me, the maps will be different enough. I had my fun seeing Kell's map, and just how different they can be.

It's not really smart to use the GPL maps as a base, that's what I originally tried and I failed horribly. They are just full of problems.

I am straying rather far from the original maps, like Ijed, so I don't think several attempts at the same maps will be any problem.

I'll go by my own pace, too. Just letting you guys know.

And if you'll take my input, any map should be playable on its own (shotgun start.) 
Yep, There Are 
a lot of entity bugs in the GPL source maps. I recommend if you have a map with more that a few easy to correct bug to take the GPL version wipe the entities from your map pile, decompile the original game .bsp with bspc, take the resulting .map file and copy the entities and paste into the .map file you are using. If you have never decompiled a map, you'll see why you need to take the extra step because the brush work in the decompiled map is almost unuseable, the entities however are usually sound. 
E2m1 
I should add that my e2m1 will be mostly a style/texture/atmosphere change (no base!) so it isn't a "proper" remix. Thus it should be fine if anyone else does a remix of it too.


Btw: No Quoth? :( 
Good Idea 
The variety of maps to choose from feels inappropriate for a compo, though. How would you judge them? I would've prefered the theme to be about the DM maps only (a limited set), so the results could more easily be compared. And they're small enough to serve as a reasonable base for a compo, unlike (some of) the original maps which, albeit being around medium-sized overall, are still too large to be worked with in such a context. We'll probably only end up with a much of mediocre remixes (though they could be used as a base for further versions because of the GPL of course). 
 
What I'm finding amusing is the number of brush errors I'm finding n E3M4. Some of those lava pits have incomplete floors which lead to empty chamber below so the engine is drawing a load of junk it doesn't need to in certain views. Kinda funny to see the mistakes that pros can make. :)

So I'm not only remixing, I'm optimizing and fixing.

My remix is mainly going to be a visual overhaul with some considerations given to gameplay flow. Some useless areas will be eliminated, etc. I might add a secret or two as well. 
Willem 
They weren't pros back then, they were inventing the term. That's why its a great game.

I always found it to be a nightmare to fix all the errors - kind of took the fun out of it.

I wouldn't suggest copying the ents alone, either, since there's some mad alphanumerical naming system there that makes it next to inpenetrable since alot of the monsters use paths. It also limits you to the same crampt size that id built on.

Not many modern Quakers like getting stuck on small pieces of brushwork every two minutes, but maybe my method is the opposite extreme. 
 
Zwiffle explained it pretty well - the remix map should be recognizable in layout/style but you are free to alter it, change and add more (both visuals and gameplay). Improving the original ofcourse! E1M1rmx by Vondur and CZG is a great example.

Ofcourse the maps should be played as stand-alone (cause we wont have the whole episode). Its your choice wether you start with a shotgun or add all the weapons you are supposed to have at the very start, but make sure the difficulty curve is right.

neg|ke go ahead and prove yourself wrong and make a non-mediocre remix, we know you can
If you map just 1-2 hrs each day for 2 month its ~90hrs already. Lots of time to make a good map (considering the time it took you to make Zer maps)

About E1 "ban" - well I dont know already. Its the community event, so if anyone really wants to do e1m* remix ...

Ijed, Kell and gb: maybe you could enter a single map each into this challange too? Would be great 
Happy Eostre 
:-)

About GPL maps, I can only say that you will find it horribly hard to texture them properly. Plus what Ijed said about the numbers, spawning crap, paths... you won't know what is targetting what, it's all numbers... all one big mess.

I can't be part of this challenge I think, I'm planning on a pak. I also have 2 practically finished (ex)turtlemaps but they aren't remakes. Plus I have a life :-D which is the main point.

I look forward to some cool maps.

cheers. 
 
i will try to make a map but i dont promiss becouse my time is realy realy short and is about to get much shorter...

let�s see... 
Ok 
I'll include e3m1, but as a preview of the full ep. Most likely it'll change for the final release but it's been almost ready for quite a while.

Don't know if its fair to judge the map the same, since it's had alot more time spent on it than two months.

If enough maps are made (and there aren't any objections) maybe we can bundle the whole thing together in the end under id1 and go for a remake of the entire game . . . 
@jied 
There was a plan for a total remake before: http://sourceforge.net/projects/freequake/
But this project looks like dead for a long time now.

Anyway, the idea is great (about the BIG remake and about the small remixes). (: 
Ok, I'll Join 
I finished dm2ish, dm3ish, dm4ish, dm6ish and e1m2ish. 
How About, Speeds 
you change the rules to make an e1 map remix in idbase style. Only.

Give out a wad that has to be used, and acceptable entity list too (possibly fgd). Like no knights or torches.

This post was sponsered by warm thoughts of a certain gentleman in northern Germany. 
Yuck 
Tell me who that gentleman is and he will get a visit from another nothern-german gentleman who really LOVES base maps. 
One Day 
It'll be finished . . . 
Aard 
now add SP gameplay to them :)

+how's it going? 
I Could Do One. 
It'd be fun!

Ha-ha-ha! I can prove that I can make maps with reasonable speeds.

I'll do any one. 
 
RickyT23 sure, would be cool to have a map from you.

aard: yeah, but please read the challenge guidelines first :P
bambuz: ofcourse not (its been discussed with many people on tf) 
I Could Do An E#M1 Map . . . 
...but I am starting to feel like doing a non-base map...

And I've only just found the textures I was looking for - speedbz_fin.wad

Aargh! 
Reverse 
Ok, not going to do a map now.

I could, e3m1rmx is pretty much ready to go, but I don't want to break the pack up into pieces. If I've resisted temptation for this long then there's no reason to break it up now. 
Ijed 
:-E 
:| 
 
E3M6 
 
/:=( 
 
 
i will not make a map! my kid born last night and i will probably not have time to map... just maby some minutes at launch time... and is not enought to make a full rebuild!

so good luck to all and i hope to play some fun hardcore maps ;) 
Trinca 
Congrats on the baby ;) 
Yes Trinca 
Congratulations! Maybe when your kid grows up, you can teach her/him mapping for Quake! I believe this community can last that long! 
Same, And; 
Is your oldest mapping yet? 
Crikey 
Congratulations Trinca! 
Another Trophy To Trinca's Potency 
Cheers and Cigars 
 
thks guys :) 
Trinca... 
Feel free to name your child after any of us, if you like :)

Congrats!!! 
If 
He names his child after anyone, his name will be Zwiffle. 
Again Trinca, Congrats. 
The newborns name is Nuno. And Trinca, you haven't told us. Is it a guy or a gal? 
Woooot... Congrats! 
Trinca will release for Archane pak though, yes? 
You Know What? 
fuck it. I'm in.


haven't decided a map yet, but likely I'll take something from episode3 
 
OK, so here's a question:

Are we required to keep DM capabilities in the maps? I could reduce my compile time and brush count by deleting all of the DM teleporters and DM specific entities in this map.

Is that allowed? 
Dm... 
removing those ents won't save more than a second or so of compile time, surely?

Although I'm not personally participating because I've too many other unfinished maps to work on I am trying to put dm in my sp maps. Why not? It also means you can play them with the dmsp mod and have another game type, wheras with no spawns the map won't work in dmsp. 
 
It would make certain changes easier if I didn't have to work around hidden teleporters and stuff. That's why I'm asking. 
Willem 
It's something you don't have to do, sure, but I reckon it'd be better with - there's a whole DM community who'll thank you for it (QuakeOne).

Zwiffle - what's your problem with Trinca? 
I Think It's Interesting 
Who would make a map by using the original ID mapsource, and who would just look at the layout of the map, but build a new one from scratch?

Also how were the other RMX maps made?

I think I would probably rebuild from scratch. 
Thinking Of E2m3 Or 4 
just beacause nobody else is doing them! 
 
I'm using the id original and building on top of it. I'm more about improving the visuals and adding some fun rather than re-imagining the entire level. 
 
The first remix I did, of the Palace of Hate, I started with the original .map but it became a nightare, all the crappy brushwork, coupled with the WC problems. And the aforementioned opaque entity naming.

I spose when it's your own editor it's not so bad ;)

My method now is to resist opening the mapfile at all costs. But that's me. 
 
E3M4 is a bit rough with 130 models in it and some fairly complex interactions here and there. I wouldn't want to spend the time trying to replicate the map again from scratch.

I would also think that doing it from scratch would introduce scale problems and incorrect distances. But maybe not, I dunno. 
Daamnnn Son 
geez louise, it's projects like this that make me wish I had a PC that worked. Maybe the next paycheck I get can buy me that last component I need and then I can start mapping again. 
 
Im building from scratch, just checking the original map for reference when needed. Im doing e3m5 and DM is no concern for me.

updated list of claimed maps http://speeds.wordpress.com
but you are free to pick the same maps 
Speeds 
czg said he's really fat.

but he wouldnt post a picture. i had my suspicions about it . . . 
Willem 
From Scratch Is The Best Course Of Action 
with dm3rmx I built from scratch since there was no .map source available. I think the e1m1 source may have been available somewhere, but it doesn't look like it was used in the remake.

I was working on a dm1 remake and using the original .map to check the scale along with ALOT of checking in game to see how things feel and comparing it to my own version to see if the adjusted scale etc. feel better or worse.

I wouldn't reccomend using the id source as a base :) 
 
I think y'all are crazy. I don't have that kind of time. :) 
 
I am using the e2m1 source. After some cleanup it is usable. The targetnames don't really bug me as Quark shows nice connectors between targets and targetnames if some are selected.

The brushwork is awful at most places though... 
E3m3 
The Tomb Of Terror 
Please Make It Into 
The Tomb of Error 
Or Even 
The Womb of Error 
 
ijed, Zwiffle want a pure macho... and i already said him i just like women�s... but he insists... what can i do more? i must ignore him or he will commit suicide one of these days... 
Heh 
What he means to say is that Trinca is having an affair with me. Don't tell his wife. His children will also be devastated to find out. He merely named his son, Zwiffle, in honor of his one true love, myself. 
Why Not 
The Schlong of Zerst�r 
These Maps Will Probably Mostly Use... 
...ID textures. So they'll be really good with hi-res textures!

I feel I'm gonna end up with 2 maps on the go at the same time here, cause speedbaze_fin.wad is calling to me. I cant stop looking at the set. 
The Schlong Of Zerst�r... 
Is a good name for any child ;-) 
 
The Schlong of Zerst�r

rotfl

watch out for the shlong of blitz.

:-E 
Bump 
Wind Tunnels? 
Looks good - good to see your classic archways.

Makes me realise I'll be able to look at the maps from this project as a reliable quality barometer. 
Bump2 
http://a.imagehost.org/view/0184/e3m3rmx_1.jpg
http://a.imagehost.org/view/0184/e3m3rmx_2.jpg

Started using runic textures, then stecki base, then reliezed I was just rebuilding the architecture of the original and not making the map my own. So I decided it would be best if I just completely go 180 for it's texture set so I can keep the keypoints of the architecture, but put my own spin on things. Plus, I now have a ton of ideas for new spins on the gameplay of the map. 
E3m3??!!? 
(speeds/scampie looks good!)

Scampie - e3m3, I hear what you are saying, but just to clarify, are you making e3m3 from a metal map into a base map?

I really started looking at which map to do. I was thinking e3m3/4

Which maps are still availiable? I want to get started (I'm not fussy) and I dont want to step on anyones toes!

;-P

I think the best course of action is for Speeds to assign one to me! 
 
E3 seems to be fairly popular. I think M3 and M4 are pretty spoken for. Someone else grabbed another I think as well. The metal theme has a lot of friends. Heh. 
RickyT23 
maps claimed: http://speeds.wordpress.com
plenty of maps are 'free' (but you can take any really) 
 
So everyone likes the same episode as me then. 
Right. 
A decision has been made!

Please put me down for e4m1!

(cant remember what its called, but its gonna get a speedbaze makeover!)

I commit myself. And that's that. 
Since We're Sharing Shots... 
It's obviously not final but here's what I've been hacking on. I'm using the original map as a base to build on top of.

http://wantonhubris.com/remix/E3M4Rmx_1.png 
Looks Really Curvy And Detailed! 
nice 
 
ijed, nothing new - everyone always liked e3 and e1 the most
RickyT23, done 
True 
And in any case, that's an interesting looking list. 
 
and if the X1M1 maps stay idbase, we'll have 4 idbase, 5 runic/wizard. So it's a nice mix. 
And Ricky 
Yes, figured that may be obvious from the shots. :) 
 
I'm most curious to see Wizard's Manse. 
 
Wizard's Manse is a fave of mine as well. I like the structure of the place a lot. 
 
I'm most curious to see Wizard's Manse.

oh go on then:

http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=teaserek3.jpg

working off the base but i'm finding myself rebuilding pretty much *everything*.. i'm pretty OCD when it comes to neat brushwork and the same certainly can't be said for romero! 
 
Heh, well, Romero was working with virgin tech and a first pass, clunky level editor. The fact that levels got done at all is something of a miracle. :P 
Gah 
I am so frustrated with the original map source that I just started deleting ceiling and wall brushes and boxed the map. Coagula! 
 
Maybe if you had a good editor that could merge brushes and subtract reliably and stuff like that. *whistles* 
You Mean, UnrealEd? 
 
 
Using UnrealEd for Quake editing would be fairly painful, actually. 
Heh Heh 
I've done it!

UnRealEd --> .t3d --> conversion to .asc --> q3map2 --> .map

What's so hard about that? 
Wow 
this could turn into some seriously good maps released around the same ime. cheers guys. 
Hehe! 
I built a room last night. The first room of e4m1. Is not gonna be IDBase though, but speedbaze_fin.wad is the only textures I'm using for this one. What a fantastic set it is, as well!

Also I'm gonna do a .lit file for this one as well...

rj - that - looks - fuckin' - cool. 
Gah! 
I did something stupid. Now the map is leaking and missing brushes all over the place. WTF? Maybe ToeTag boned me with some previously unknown bug.

*shakes fist*

Ahh well ... more to rebuild, I suppose. 
 
Maybe if you had a good editor that could handle maps without deleting random brushes and stuff like that. *whistles*

:P 
 
Touche! However, I'm on a Mac. Heh. 
Guys 
save intermediate versions. Then you don't lose so much *when* the editor fucks up. It always does from time to time. 
 
Hooray, leaks fixed! And a cool new ceiling to boot.

I've also turned over a new leaf where I'll be saving a new version of the map for every major thing that gets built. 
Rj 
aww, I hoped for the original textures :-)

It looks fresh though. 
Willem 
Vis leaf? 
Ahem 
 
 
(speachless) 
Heh; Speeeeeeds? 
I assume that this texture set I keep going on about was created by you! Its lovely. I love it!

but on the main sort of texture (er how to describe without posting a shot), the one which is like the standard IDBase sort of wall tex, has ONE fullbright pixel in it!

How terrible! Whatever will I do? I'll have to spend at least 30 seconds in Wally to fix this!! 
That E2m5rmx Shot Looks Awesome 
Keep it up guys :) 
The Judges 
Metlslime, CZG, Lunaran and Bal.

Long time members of the so-called "true quake community" (ex QMAP), veteran expert mappers and industry professionals. 
Heh 
For a second I thought that read "...veteran ex-mappers..." Silly me. 
Thats Pretty Frightening! 
 
Veteran Ex-mappers Eh? 
[insert joke at Bal's expense] 
In Other Words 
guys who hang out on #terrafusion, even though they haven't released more than 1 map between them in the last 3 years. And why are there judges at all? Is there a prize?

This whole thing really is just one big ego-wanking circle-jerk. 
If 
You have to stroke someone's ego to get them to map, then you might as well make it a group event. 
Lol Wut 
whats your problem Kell?
its just a mapping community 'event' in the spirit of coagula and 100b mapping competitions of the past. Its point is making some nice maps in a given theme with a bit of competitiveness thrown in to spice things up. #tf is where the idea was born and discussed, so what?
All the judges are undeniably respected and experienced people who btw worked on like 8 games (and who knows how many levels!) between them in the last 3 years besides working on some custom/community maps and stuff. (just so you dont think they are some rusty EX-mappers from the past)

And you could contribute to this challenge yourself instead of starting a drama. About 2 months till deadline - still plenty of time Join in people! 
 
(Tsk tsk .... ) 
 
contribute to this challenge yourself

Yeah, cause I haven't contributed nearly enough, especially in the form of remix maps :|


My 'problem' is that it smacks of a kind of nepotism, where only 'oldskool' mappers, i.e. people who stopped Q1 mapping years ago but hang out on IRC talking shite, are the authority and their 'approval' is sought for anything that happens these days. It's unfair to those who are active now.

So what I'll contribute is a suggestion: what I think would be a better idea is that only those who actually complete a map get to judge. Every contributor gets 1 vote, and can't vote for their own map(s).
That seems much fairer. It empowers those who actually put in the effort, and is another motivation to join.

But you still haven't explained why there needs to be judging at all. 
Kell 
I'm not really sure what the drama is regarding the judges chosen - to be honest I think any contributer to the scene, past or present, is a valid choice as a judge. Sounds like they were there when the idea was being discussed, which is as good a reason as any.

On the other hand...

But you still haven't explained why there needs to be judging at all.

Fair call there. There's no prize up for grabs, and no other reason why there should be any judging or 'winner' chosen. Everyone putting in the effort to make a map is going to make it as good as they can regardless, so there's no need for any extra motivation. 
The More The Merrier.. 
i say we take on kell's idea AND speeds' proposed judges ;) ..each user ranking the maps from best to worst with a mini review for each one, with the averages added up at the end. providing each map gets the same amount of votes, there should be a way of working it out.

i like the fact its a competition.. even if there isn't a prize it feels like an added motivation.. although that may just be a natural competitive streak ;D 
 
Give everyone on the board who cares to vote, a single vote. If you're in the competition, you still get a vote but you can't vote for yourself.

There. It's fair and everyone gets to participate. 
 
I mean, this is really just for fun. As was stated, there are no prizes at risk here.

I'd like to see these maps compiled at the end into a nice PAK file and announced on PlanetQuake at the end. It's a community thing. 
The Winner 
will one day open his front door to see a giant cake sitting on his front lawn. Upon inspecting the cake, a note will be found "Dear Winner." Picking up the note and opening will read "Upon your victory of the Quake Remix Mapping Challenge, your name has been submitted to an underground mapping club. The rules of this underground mapping club are simple: Anywhere, at any time, you may have to put together a speed map against a rival of said underground mapping club. An unknown judge will decide upon these maps who is victorious and who is not. And what will happen if you are victory? What will be your prize? Your life. You have 24 hours. Save the kitten."

Let the games begin.







Or just go fucking map. 
 
The cake is a lie. 
Its A Shame I Cant Put Rotating Objects In This Map... 
bummer 
I Ain't Doing This Mappin' For The Fame Or Glory... 
I'm doing it for the kids.

But if there is a prize, I want it to be a hug from Kell. 
/me 
intercepts the hug-trajectory and inserts himself snuggly into scampie's warm embrace.

Oh the joy. 
Zwiffle 
I'm seriously going to stab you. 
 
He's in perfect shanking range now. Put your shiv where your mouth is! 
Here's What I Want 
I want Kell to take his grumpy pants off. Do it, or I'll sic DaMaul on you! He invented bears, you know. Not a man to be trifled with! 
At Least Somebody's Thinking Of The Children 
 
Kell 
Think of beauty contests. The judges are never beautiful young women, but always some dirty fat old men in sunglasses who have nothing to do with beauty themselves.

You should be honored not to be called for a judge - as you are considered an active mapist (and modist and artist) yourself. 
Mr. Fribbles 
Does DaMaul still live? I figured he'd disappeared due to a horrific accident in his shed while inventing yet a new race of super creatures. 
Bambuz 
By that logic, I'll judge. I'm slightly overweight, I wear glasses... I'm not old, but I am curmudgeonly. 
You're Hired! 
...as long as you vote for me so I can win the non-prize. 
Fine 
I will ship 50 USD worth of this to the winner:

http://www.gogurtfizzix.com/

how's that?

(yes, that's carbonated yogurt. /me waves a tiny american flag) 
Thats Shit Is MINE!! 
 
Does That Mean... 
...the maps have to be playable in fizzQuake? 
You Know... 
i believe the only meaningful raised limit in fitzquake 0.80 is the max_edicts, so if you keep the map under 600 edicts you should be able to run it in any engine. 
Oh Great 
thanks metl, now I probably wont sleep tonight, or maybe ever again.

Also, that is the worst website in the whole world. 
And By Metl 
I mean Lunaran. 
Scampie 
I figured the same, I haven't heard from DaMaul in many years. So you called my bluff, it was an empty threat (unless somebody actually CAN summon DaMaul!?) 
Heh... 
...the last thing DaMaul did around here was enter a competition, blatantly break one of the comp's few rules and still come in fourth. Such a loss... 
It Was Those Inverted Organs 
A man has no more chance with a condition like that than a bubble boy does rolling down the streets of Newark. 
 
hey 'no wizmet' rule sucked anyway! 
Hah Yes 
What kind of a rule is that? That's like saying "no brushes" when you're making a Quake map :)

DaMaul was right to break that rule... a victory for common sense and righteous justice! 
Kell 
 
Snapshot - E4m1RMX1 
Heres a pic of what I've done for the first room:

http://shub-hub.com/files/images/e1m1rmx1.jpg 
404 - Hold On.... 
 
 
try this:

http://shub-hub.com/files/images/e1m4rmx1.jpg

typo - e1m1rmx (oops! soory judges...) 
Aren't You Doing E4m1? 
in any case, look great! 
 
You seem to pay great attention to accurate texture alignment on rotated faces, which is good. 
 
Looks sick, Ricky! Love the attention to texture alignment. 
Heehee... 
...I seem to remember there was more than just wizmet at stake...

Anyhoo, I'm liking these remakes that involve twisting the texture scheme. People are stepping right away from the "stricter" remix protocols of kell et al. Don't get me wrong, I strongly believe e1 should continue to be revisioned in line with the painstaking and brilliant work that has already begun. However, I'm getting a nice kick out of some the skewing being wrought upon levels from the other eps.

RickyT23, if you keep going the way you've started, e4m1 may well finally be worth playing :)

Scampie, I'd never have thought of doing it but I look forward to the results. Please don't let the editing process bring you down so much you don't finish.

Here's to a bit of fun in the making.

And no, I'm too busy trying to get dis_dp6 out the door...along with creating the prefabs for a mapping competition. 
 
the editing process ain't bringing me down. in fact, it's fucking awesome for me to be doing level design rather than the work I've been doing the last few weeks. 
<--- Dancing Man 
...w0000t... 
 
RickyT23, if you keep going the way you've started, e4m1 may well finally be worth playing

bah, heresy! e4m1 rocks! 
Heehee... 
...Come in spinner! 
 
RickyT23 you are getting a pro man!!! guess u�ve born to map :p 
On Behalf Of Willem 
http://wantonhubris.com/blog/2008/04/13/e3m4-progress/

looking cool :)

Yes, I read your blog. It's ok, I'm not a stalker. 
 
Thanks! 
 
oh nice. I havent even compiled once and yet to place any lights 
Yup 
Dat look cool :-)
Interesting architecture! 
 
"oh nice. I havent even compiled once and yet to place any lights"

I know guys who can do that but I can't. I need to see solid results and finished areas as I progress. :) 
 
I spend more time compiling and running around in the map than mapping, that should explain a lot. 
I Like To Do It Speeds Way 
TBH. Not always, depends. It's often easier to implement ents at the end because the map seems less cluttered.

Problem being your'e almost building blind I spose. One thing I like to do is build different areas seperately then stick them together.

As for gameplay, I plan roughly what's gonna happen as I create the world stuff. I just dont implement any monsters till the end? 
Half And Half Here 
I spend a long time working on the first area of the map to define look and style, and get get decent lighting, so I spend a lot of time going back and forth then compiling. Once I'm reasonably happy with the look and lighting, I'll just use those light ents and the defined style throughout the rest of the map so I don't have to constantly recompile and take a look. 
'Nother Shot... 
Fuck Sake! 
Well i've accidentall uploaded both shots as e1m4, but they should be e4m1 (obviously)

http:/shub-hub.com/files/images/e1m4rmx.jpg

Wallop! (sigh) 
 
 
Heh Heh 
Ricky, neither one of those links work :) 
Spoke To Soon. 
Anyway, that looks really nice. I may use an engine with colored lighting for once on this map. :)

But.... another base!? Whats with all the base maps! 
The Last One Does 
and i meant to save the file as e4m2rmx2, but saved it as e1m4rmx2, then uploaded it, then posted loads of incorrect links. but the last one does work on my comp...

(embarrassed) 
E4m1 
that looks really good! Very clean architecture and texturing, just really pleasing to look at, very nice. 
E4m1 
Nice architecture but it's dark. And remember that thing about too many/much colored lights. 
Ricky 
looks great! 
Icky... 
Ricky, correct me if I'm wrong here, but it seems you've got 4 different light styles and colours mixed together there in one (very small) area.

I reckon that that would look a bit dodgy even without coloured lighting.

My opinion: use less different light textures within the same area to give it a more unified look (especially if you're going to use coloured lighting).

Other than that, it looks great! :) 
Thanks For The Pointers Guys! 
I must admit I've been very busy of late and have been piecing this one together quite gradually. Tips about lighting/aesthetics are good, if anything just because they'll make me tweak tweak tweak and try different combos, so great! :-) 
 
Im with frib, try 2 types - one coloreless/slight for overall and another for small colored areal lights 
I Think The Blue White Light With Two Vertical Stripes 
doesn't fit while the other three work pretty well together. Apart from that it's looking good! 
 
RickyT23 if i will have a level design company i will get you to my team for sure... fast with lots of imaginacion!!! looks real cool 
Thanks Man 
I must mention once again though that the texture set I am using is fucking brilliant! It's really easy to work with and looks great. And I think it fits a sewer system theme very well. 
I Have Prepared A Little Something, Too 
 
sweet i wanted to make one to but my fucking time is to short :\ 
That Looks Interesting 
perhaps make the runic symbols on that teleporter symetrical, i.e remove one half of the frame, copy the other half and then paste it, and spin it 180. Just a dumb suggestion....

:P 
Or, You Know... 
he could just cut the top brush in half and scale the textures on one side by -1 horizontally. 
Yay... 
...I'm getting quite excited about some of these remixes.

RickyT23 - a superb vision for e4m1, clean - solid - detailed - can't wait! I agree regarding the light fixtures, and have never been able to understand why mappers insist on rotating floor tiles. Tile cutters (or in this instance the hot-axe) exist for a purpose. Unless the rotated section is such that it looks like a piece fabricated to fit round a bend - and I'm not suggesting realism here, rather consistency - then it just looks arse.

megaman - interesting, but isn't e1 off limits? 
Thanks Distrans 
I gotta tell you though, the floor tiles were inspired by APSP1.

(hehe - tile cutters) 
Pfft Tile Cutters 
Don't listen to them. (Properly) rotated tiles are the way to go. Cut tiles are ok on 45 degree angles and the like, but look totally bad on round floors. 
Cut Floor Tiles 
almost always look bad. They're one of the first things you notice in a level (I do) even before misaligned textures. In the original e1m2 most of the big metal tiles were cut away somehow, which looks horrifying. For example.

The QW guys' craving for high quality textures, but at the same time ignoring crappy texture alignment, which looks much worse than the original texes themselves, amazes me to no end.

The base floor tiles (sfloorblah_blah) can be made to look good when cut, for example Gibbie pretty much has it down, look at his map Alcyone.

so, neg!ke++

megaman: Nice! Try using even less red? Perhaps red "runes" only in the corners? Looks good, proper metal. Niceness. 
And 
megaman: The L-shaped pillar in your screenie looks unaligned with the floor texture. The whole floor looks weird in that screenie, is there a cut of some sort exactly where the shadow begins? 
 
Cut Floor Tiles are REALISTIC
Iv been doing floor tiles in REAL LIFE so I know what Im talking about!

so get over it and focus on the things that matter 
Yeah, But 
it's Quake, so it doesn't have to be REALISTIC. It just has to look good. 
Uh 
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7498/e1m7srcgr8.jpg

i tried to be funny and failed :( 
Megaman 
that looks pretty pro dude, keep it up! 
 
:-E all right. 
Wall-E 
http://vigil.quaddicted.com/pics/vigremix.jpg

Click on the link for a free preview of an upcoming level-map. 
Vigil 
Looks nice ;) 
Free?! 
I'm in. Looks good, what map is that? 
Vigil 
nice but the light... 
Oh Yes Please... 
...would this be your first full release back since Nehahra? 
 
ricky that looks great, and keep rotating those floor tiles! if than and czg did it then it can't be wrong... 
Gibbie 
Hell yeah. Since when was emulating reality a noble goal (especially in Quake mapping!?) Real Life usually has shitty texture alignment anyway. Those builders and tilers should be ashamed of themselves sometimes.

In all seriousness, it all comes down to what looks best to you with the geometry and textures you're working with. Sometimes you'll want to rotate those suckers, sometimes not... can you imagine how a map like alcyone would look without rotating the floor tiles though? 
Distrans 
No, but definitely since 2001.

And that's E3M1, Determination-To-Finish Central. 
 
Fribbles

That reminds me of my secret shame. Whenever I'm in a bathroom or a room with tile, the level designer chunk of my brain immediately starts checking the edges to see how the tiles are lined up. If it matches up nicely, I give a nice mental nod of respect to the tile layers.

I'm such a ridiculous nerd... 
Willem 
I do the same. Every time. 
I Think... 
... it is not a reflex of nerd, it is more a reflex of mapper: I do exactely the same when I visit some Gothic church, I'm looking for the details, and how the Hell they've been able to do their architecture, and how could I put it in my maps...

Hey, we are too fanatic ;) 
Actually 
I kind of like it when tile layers make tiny mistakes and the tiles don't line up correctly. It makes reality seem a little more real instead of aligned to the grid. 
But Also Realize 
That the real life tile layers can't just stretch or shrink the tiles or move the surrounding walls to make the tiles line up perfectly. 
They Should Use The Grid Ffs 
The tiles in my bathroom aren't properly aligned either on both walls and floor. Plus there's a leak above the door. And a gap beneath. Fucking architects. 
Neg 
Do you get HOMs when your'e on the crapper? 
I'm Not A Mapper 
But I always check the alignment of tiles, and how dividers match up with the grid, and if the lights are intersecting consistently through the room... So maybe its just a trait of weirdos, not mappers. 
Aspies Crawling Out Of The Woodwork In This Thread 
 
Obsessive Compulsive 
I've always maintained that to be a level designer, you have to have a bit of the obsessive compulsive personality type.

My suspicions were confirmed when I actually started meeting other LDs in person and found out that almost all of them were in fact obsessive compulsive.

For example, I met one guy who only ate pizza or french fries for every meal. He literally would not deviate from this. I honestly thought he was going to die of scurvy or something like that. 
Scurvy 
the bane of mappers. And seamen. Well, nowadays, there are some STD's as well. 
Little 
lime juice in the nightly vodka & tonic will keep the rickets away. 
Also, 
step away from the desk at the top of every hour, do fifty push ups to keep your metabolism running at a high rate.

It really doesn't take much from slipping into decrepitude. 
And After A Few Years 
doctors start wondering why so many young pale men have worn out elbows... 
Ok Guys 
stop turning this thread into a mess
please stay on topic 
Drop And Do Me Fifty! 
 
Progress 
 
Oh, obviously very WIP and needs more work but this is the direction it's headed at least ... this is the very start area, E3M4. 
Careful With Those 
grilles/girders/complex things on the ceiling. vis time and lotsa splits or make em imaginary or funkywalls. 
 
I'm keeping an eye on it, believe me. It's just over 5 minutes at this point for the whole level so I'm not concerned yet. 
 
very recognizable! 
 
Looks good Willem! 
 
OK, well, 21 minutes ... still, not too bad. If it gets over an hour I'll start hacking. :P

Thanks all! 
Four Weeks Left! 
in case someone out there isn't counting. 
Yeah 
Lunaran is right. so guys, I hope you make it!
Im done doing geometry and some light ... 
 
It's coming along. Assuming work doesn't get crazy I should make it. Let's hope... 
Im Up Shit Creek Without A Paddle. 
Butim on holiday this week. ;D

I dont like letting people down and looking like a twat, so. . . .

Has anyone reached the stage of beta-testing yet? 
 
I used the id map as a base so my level has always been playable. 
 
I just sealed my map some days ago. It looks 50% as good as the original, has 20% the details, 0% items and monsters.

Oh, did I ever mention that QuArK is a piece of shit when it comes to maps with more than 20 brushes? Each click makes all views update and that takes about a second. Retexturing and aligning is so much fun this way! 
Spirit 
Oh, did I ever mention that QuArK is a piece of shit when it comes to maps with more than 20 brushes?

Err I disagree, QuArK is fine if you configure it properly. I think you should use only 2 views (bottom and side view): no 3D view is helpful in this case. Also, if you want to use 3 side view + 3D view, etc.. you need a speed runner computer... though.. 
Heh, Damn You Lunaran 
the 'someone out there' was specifically referring to me... I really need to get back into the mappin'. 
 
I got my mapping mojo back. 
Hehe... 
I started working on e4m1rmx after a small spell of speedmapping last week. 19 days left :o
It's gonna be tight! :P
Has anyone done any testing yet? 
 
What do you do, Ricky? How do you have this kind of time for mapping? I'm lucky if I can squeeze a few hours a week in... 
No - Well - I Mean 
I started e4m1rmx a while ago, after I finished Slave. I just postponed it while I was doing that speedmap!

As for where do I find the time, well - I dont really know!! If you want to do something, you do it!

I'm sooo busy at the moment too! Ive got my job (office administrator), college (book-keeping), my band, my girlfriend and my friends to worry about. Sometimes I map from 2am to 3:30am if thats the only time I get. It really difficult sometimes to stay motivated. Sometimes I open Worldcraft and stare blankly at the screen for ten minutes. But if I add one brush or fix one texture I always save it straight away.

I'm blindly charging forwards with my life for fear of missing a trick, I spent 6-7 years just messing around/"standing still" but now I just keep going!

I still consider mapping and my band to be pointless pass-times rather than prospective careers, I'm just playing in my sand box really! :P 
Also I Think I'm Turning Into A Bit Of An Insomniac 
I keep going to bed when it's light, and it's getting worse!

Fuck-it; sleep when you're dead! 
 
"I keep going to bed when it's light, and it's getting worse! "

Oh, you're young and single. That explains it. Thanks! :) 
Im Not Single 
I've been together with then same girl for five years this July :)

I met her in a poultry processing factory (ugh - gutting chickens at 6am on a Saturday - how romantic :/ ) 
 
If you're not living together, you're a mere stones throw from single. :) 
We Have Been Living Together For Almost 5 Years 
As in sharing a bed every night, sharing our flat. I almost proposed to her at Christmas, but wherever I went to look at rings they refused to sell me one because I didnt know the exact size. So she got a camera instead! I know what size she is now, so I have run out of excuses ;-P

She doesn't mind the constant Quake playing/mapping because it keeps me off the guitar! Although I think it annoys her a bit when I'm playing from constant "hup, hup, hup, (bang bang), yeeaargh (death". I bet it doesnt annoy her as much as soap-operas annoy me! :| 
 
Alright, well, whatever works for you two then. :) I know that mapping until the sun comes up regularly would never fly with my wife. Heh. 
Wife Vs Men's Activities, ... 
.. whatever the activity is, it never fits well... except sex.. thought :P 
Lol ;-) 
I am still young I guess...

Hehe - I bet drinking all night and playing guitars wouldn't either Willem! I'd do anything for my woman though, but she likes me for who I am. "She bought me as she saw me". 
And I Cook All Of The Food! 
We should start a new thread for this kind of crap. "Lives and Times". Naahhh. I'll shut up now ;P 
Please... 
... don't give again bad ideas to Trinca :P 
 
ye ye ye let�s do it!!!

womens and Quake are not compatible... my wife hate Quake :\ and if i love sex i must hate Quake at home :) 
 
Uh, that sucks. Too bad you couldn't have married someone who would support your hobbies and stuff. 
 
Portuguese womens are evil :) 
Willem 
I'm afraid you'd have to be extraordinarily lucky to find a woman who would tolerate quake. Actually supporting, well, that's fantasy. 
 
I don't agree. As long as you aren't telling her, "Sorry, can't spend time together, I'm playing Quake" and crap like that - why would she have a problem with it?

My wife thinks my interest in Quake is awesome and she totally accepts it - because, primarily, she sees how passionate I am about it. She has her interests, I have mine, and we also have stuff we do together. That's how you make it work. :) 
Ditto 
" " " " "

(Except for the passionate thing I guess, I recon my girlfreind, partner, whatever yee might refer to her as just sees the benefit of me not playing the guitar so much) ;-) 
 
My friend who works at Raven has a fiance who's favorite game in the world, apparently, is Quake. She used to play it all the time when she was younger, so they say.


She's a weird one, she is. 
Progress Report... 
...heh... er, well I'm trying to fit as much time in for mapping on this project as possible, my map is starting to take some shape too...

I dont realy map like you guys I think; what I tend to do is all of the brushwork as I go, maybe adding a few details as I go along. Each area is lit as I go too (certainly on this map), combat is thought about as I go too, but I dont put any monsters in until I have basicall sealed the full map! Same goes for triggers and gameplay! I add doors and lifts as I go along, just so I can run around the map while I am making it.

So talking around the subject a bit here I guess; there are what - 2 and a half weeks left! I recon I can meet the original deadline but it's gonna be tight!

My band has ever-increasing momentum at the moment too with an increased practise regime and a few planned gigs up ahead! And my college exams are in three weeks or so. And I'm going to the USA in the second week of June, too look at some massive dairy farms (!).

In short I'm very busy. Im doing my best too meet all deadlines!

The speedmap I have made was actually quite refreshing, although I am regretting not spending the time on this map a *little* bit... :P

So anyone else under a l00t of preassure?

Also:

Good luck to everyone working on a map! :D 
RickyT23 
So anyone else under a l00t of preassure?

Not really at home, rather at office...

At home it is quite nice: when kids are in bed, my wife jumps onto the PC, check her email, and then she play on my daughter's Nitendo DS (generally Cerebral Academy... :P ), and then I have all the time I want to either play or map or go on #terrafusion, or go on the internet...

Generally I have 3 hours by evening, then a shower, and by a good day, it ends by sex (sometimes during, and after the shower)...

Cool life :D

However, I have to admit my wife does not understand my interst for Quake mapping, and more generally in FPS and violent game... As well, she does not understand my passion for windsurf... girls... ;) 
 
i really loved czg/vondur's remake of E1M1, i wish all quake maps would've been remade that way!!!

if anyone's gonna do Dismal Oubliette, please don't forget to re-insert the beginning area that was cut out by Romero because of the limitations... he later released as E2M10 or something like that. 
I Don't Think Most Women 
could ever appreciate quake mapping. They don't understand it. At least over here. It's at best irrelevant to them.

Probably like most men view many of the women's decoration hobbies. Though many of them are actually much more useful than quake maps. But they often lack the grandeur and expressivity possible in quake.

Perhaps in a future world everything is different. Or maybe it's genetic and can't be changed. 
 
Oh, my wife doesn't understand the process itself but she's cool with it. That was really my point. She doesn't actively try to discourage me from doing it in any way. 
 
you shouldnt say 'Im mapping for quake'
try 'Im creating virtual interactive worlds ' instread 
Bambuz 
I have to say, you are quite the macho man to put them womens in their place. Us manly men are the only ones with the intellect to create. 
Glad You Read It Right 
my favorite painter is a woman. 
And Of Course 
it's probably a cultural issue. I can see when re-reading my post that it wasn't clear. 
Hey Back On Topic 
 
Sex-ay! 
Oh Yeah 
THIS thing. Gotta get to work on mine. I should be able to finish mine in time, but it'll be barely adequate =/ 
I'm.. 
..starting to think mine won't be done in time for the deadline. it's making steady progress but i'll be out all next weekend and realistically it's probably around 3-4 weekends' worth of mapping away from being complete. it's turning out pretty nicely though so releasing it as a standalone wouldn't be the worst thing in the world! 
I Recon The Date Should Be Moved 
I could do mine, but I would be rushing it and it could be better if I didnt have to rush it!

Date Should Be Moved 
to what date ? if you havent given up, just need more time it makes sense 
 
I haven't given up but I'll be hard pressed to finish. At the same time, work will be picking up steam in terms of hours starting next month so if I don't get I'm probably not going to get done. .. blargh. 
Well How About 1 Month Exactly? 
Im going to the USA for 1 week on the 9th of June, so I can't map then anyway.

July the 1st would be 110% fine for me!

I maintain that I could finish the map for June 1st, but it would be very mediocre...

Seeing as four people are expressing the need for a wee bit more time, perhaps this is a good date!

lol!

We dont want this to be another Base Pak... 
That Sounds Good To Me Too 
This weekend, plus two three day week ends coming up for me, and I should be able to make the deadline, but a little extra time would be great because nothing ever goes according to schedule in my personal life. 
I Am On Time 
and will finish my map to the end of this month. Actually I stripped away lots of it when I realised that otherwise I couldn't make the deadline. (Which was good anyways, no hard feelings if there is an extension, just saying that when there is a deadline, you should try to think about it. :) ) 
 
"Which was good anyways, no hard feelings if there is an extension, just saying that when there is a deadline, you should try to think about it."

Oh hey, I agree, but when deadlines at work conflict with deadlines in my hobby - work wins. :) 
TEN DAYS LEFT 
if you hadn't all pussed out! 
 
I thought it was extended ... 
Someone Just Pick A New Date 
 
July 19, 2009 
Gogogogo 
Im On Course Of The Original Deadline 
gogogo 
I Hope... 
... it will not turn into another "endless Base Pack postpon session"...


gogogogogogogo.... thought... :P 
 
I thought it was extended

Yes, you guys pussed out. 
Shall We Not Just Stick To The Deadline? 
gogogo 
 
Gogogo is great, but some of us are busy. 
 
I guess that was bitchy but, yeah, I won't be able to make the original deadline. So either move it or I'll have to release my map separately. 
How Fickle Am I !??! 
sorry 
 
I'll try to make the deadline, I'm pretty sure I can make it, but the map will turn out pretty lame in the end. But as of now I'm on track to finish on time. 
Hm.. 
is anyone else with me in that they'd rather wait a little longer to play solid & polished complete maps as opposed to hurried/untested entries ready for the end of the month?

just curious really.. i have no objections if the original deadline were to stick, but i'm happy with how mine is turning out & am not overly keen on the idea of rushing it over the next week, since there's still alot of detail & lighting work to be done. 
Yeah 
Id love to see better/more maps
if it really helps. cause maybe you`v givin up or too busy and 2 extra weeks wont make a difference 
Well 
Ill only be here for one of those two weeks, but an extra week will = one extra weeks worth of work for me.

Map would be better!

(also Quoth/hipnotic rotating doors would be cool for floodgates :-( 
Ugh 
my brain is very tired. Must...keep...mapping... 
Better Rename This To "The Other Speedmapping Thread" 
Ha! Ha! Ha! 
Didn't You Mean "The Other Base Pack"? 
 
 
Hey, I'm working on mine! I swear. 
See Everyone In 2 Weeks 
 
Will The "Remix Mapping Challeng" 
have a booth on the Quake Expo? 
Sux 
no news on main page = I didn't know about that contest...

:(:( 
No More Sleep!!!! 
Bah! - Who needs sleep anyway!!! I can map 'till 4AM it seems, and still feel fine in the morning!

I wish....

(curls up in a ball on the floor in office at work, slips off whilst clutching the phone) 
Yeah.... 
I'm boned on this. Work is too heavy. Whenever the deadline is, I'll turn in what I have at that point. Don't wait for me. :) I'll do what I can until the buzzer sounds. 
So... 
...any free maps to do? 
Files 
How shall the files be named? I'd suggest e*m*rmx_nickname.

Will there be a start map? Then we would have to set the changelevel right. Would be nice so people don't have to use the console. The drawback would be that the pack would need its own directory as the weapon removal is fixed for start.bsp in the qc, isn't it? All the 100brush packs did this too and I think it's nice.


MaTi: A lot of maps. One and a half week is quite short for it though I guess. Maybe you could contribute a start map (see above)? :) 
Start Map 
You could make a simple start map called rmxstart which player could load manually after finishing a map. The remixed maps could still point to their regular follow-up levels. Probably better than a QC solution. 
Uh 
That would completely screw up any balance. Or did you guys all keep the map "enclosed" in terms of weapons and balance for follow-up levels? 
 
I asked that earlier and was told that the remix map should be playable from a cold start - so include pickups for any weapons that the player will need for your map at the start. 
Trigger_changelevel 
should point to "e4m2" or whatever.

This way, all new maps could be placed in an "rmx" dir in the Quake dir, and renamed to "e4m1, e3m2, whatever", and players could play through Quake as normal, with the new maps replacing the id maps where possible...

Weapons: in my maps there is an SSG, a Nailgun and a secret LG. Except for the secret LG, I think this is all of the weaponry that there is in the ID version... 
 
"and players could play through Quake as normal, with the new maps replacing the id maps where possible... "

Some maps are being duplicated aren't they? I think we have some overlap. 
Do We? - Not So Sure... 
Spirit e2m1
rj e2m5
headthump e2m7

Vigil e3m1
Scampie e3m3
Willem e3m4
Speeds e3m5

RickyT23 e4m1
Zwiffle e4m7


I just think that if you target the next level as the original map did, then the "RMX" collection could be played through as if it were a mod, it could be added to in the future without re-packaging...

Although Im not the person to decide how to do it! :P 
 
Oh, my mistake then. I thought some people had doubled up on maps. 
 
Hence my suggestion of the independent start map. 
A Start Map Would Be Nice I Guess... 
...an excellent addition to the pack! Who's gonna make one in 10 days?

The beauty of naming the maps "e2m1, e2m1" etc is that and additional maps would be compatible! Just whack them in "quake\rmx\maps", then all maps could be accessed from the Quake menu! Also any future maps could be added/replaced as and when the end user feels like it. If there are duplicate maps at some point then the player can choose which ones they want in their experience...

Still I maintain that this is just what seems logical to ME, others may differ....? 
Bah 
release them individually, they would be too hard to match up for balance otherwise. 
Bah&#178; 
Naming the maps e*m* is a terrible idea. They are not meant as replacement for Quake's maps, are they. e1m1rmx is available as id1 and quoth, e1m2rmx is quoth, ours are all id1. Also maps should always have unique names.

The Quake menu (I guess you mean the multiplayer menu) has the map names hardcoded, so the names would not be the new ones ("my rmx map by me" or whatever). So that would be completely useless.

If they were meant for continous play then we have a problem as either people would have to make sure the player has no ammo left when getting to the next map (right...) or the follow-up mapper would need to know how much ammo and what weapons are taken over. And then we could aim for release in December...

Having to use the console after each map is a bad idea, especially for normal people. It's bad enough for many that they have to specify some commandline.

negke: "take away all stuff on starting new episode" is determined by if (world.model == "maps/start.bsp") in the qc. Thus my suggesting of a folder (rmxcomp or what) and a simple start.bsp (like the ones in the 100 brush packs) pointing to the maps. 
#178? 
So should we make "trigger_changelevel" "target" "start" ?

And name the maps "e4m1rmx" ?

I'm down with that! ;-P

(by "down with that" I mean "sounds fair enough to me..." 
Doubling 
As I've mentioned before I'm working on a remake of episode 3 - but with its own progs. It will be playable under id1, but some stuff will be missing.

I'm using the name format e#m#rmx - maybe a bumper rmx pack later on would be good.

I'll be doing a remake of the original startmap once I finish 1-7 that will call the basic starts for each episode and shub's pit with rmx appended.

I have betas of m1-m2, alphas of m3-m6 and a very early version of the haunted halls. There's months of work left, so this is a heads up more than anything. 
 
And then we could aim for release in December...

December 2012.

:( 
December/2012 = >:-o 
15th June 2008 baby!!!!!

:D 
15th June 2008 
Is that confirmed? If so, I still have a decent amount of time to work in. I was afraid I would have to take a pass given I can't map this coming weekend. 
I've Been Mapping Like Crazy 
this last couple of weeks, I'm about to go into some last minute testing!! But I can only map up to the 8th because I'm going to Idaho/Vancouver for the final week! I'll submit my map to Speeds on the 8th!!

Headthump - I'm looking forwards to your map! 
Dont Give Up Plz 
you have 11 more days 
Standalone.. 
sounds the best idea to me.

it could be an idea to have everyone submit .map files though (in fact isn't this a requirement of the gpl shizz anyway?) so the maps could be edited into episode format later on by whoever feels up to the task.. 
GPL 
Only applies if the mapper used the map source. In the end I did not but I will release the (pitiful) source anyways. 
Startmap 
I started speedslowmapping the start rooms of the maps into the original start map's episode corridors. Unless someone wants to do a fresh map we could use that.

Everyone still on board? Scampie? 
Oh, And Thanks Ricky 
If I finish this sucka I'll send it over to you for beta testing. 
Speeds :-) 
I will have my bsp, rmf, map and lit files ready for you later tonight....

Where should I send them?

Rick x 
Im Serious Dude! 
If I dont give this to you tonight then I wont be able to submit it until after the 16th.

Unless anybody else wants to be the bearer (have a sneak peak...)

Also if anyone want's to give it a final playtest within the next six hours then that would be great!!! , but I dont see there being any point in sending me any feedback after about 4 hours from now, so please no-one who can't test...

:-0 
 
send to speeds@bk.ru
although Lun and metl and Bal are to judge 
Meh 
i regret to say i've been mostly out having a life this weekend :|

so unless i can pull something miraculous out of the hat next weekend i can almost certainly say mine won't be done in time 
My Situation 
I was all set to finish my map this weekend. All I have left to do is combat/gameplay. But here's the problem: my video card is dead. Like seriously. Which means, I can't really run any 3d apps, which means Quake.

I've ordered a new card, but I don't expect it until Wednesday at the earliest, possibly not until next week. So I'm unsure as to whether or not I will be able to finish in time.

But we'll see. 
 
Liar! Quake has a software renderer. 
Well Speeds Has Got Mine 
or atleast I've emailed it to him!!

If ya'll decide to release then go ahead.

If not I'll pick it up again when I get back, and the version I have sent to Speeds will be rendered obsolete! HAHAAHHAHA!!!!

gogogogogogogogo go !!!! 
Zwiffle 
Oh come on, you weren't serious were you?

Which means, I can't really run any 3d apps, which means Quake.

Most of us might prefer the hardware accelerated versions, but you can't tell me you can't run Quake using the software renderer!

In all seriousness, you should be doing at least cursory testing in standard Quake anyway, especially for an id remix map. Even if you have to increase r_maxsurfaces and r_maxedges to render it properly, you should at least verify that it runs and the lighting is semi-decent (a map lit specifically for GLQuake might be too dark in normal Quake).

For an id remix you might not even need to bump up the edge/face limits, depending on how you feel about sticking to the original limits for such a map. 
Remember Guys 
Even if you never use it yourself, there's still some people that (either by choice or necessity) use the software renderer.

A map should always be tested to verify that it can be loaded and played in the standard Quake engines, even if it isn't tweaked for the software renderer. People should at least be able to play it.

There are some bugs that will crash WinQuake, for example, that won't be apparent in GlQuake (and I'm not talking about simply exceeding engine limits). You don't want to find out after release that someone has downloaded and tried to play your map, only to have it crash out in a standard Quake engine. 
Oh Btw There Is Start Map So 
make your levels trigger_changlevel point to 'start'. kthx 
Just Over A Day Left.. 
..anyone else rushing for the finish line?

been getting bits done here & there throughout the week. it's a few brushes from being architecturally complete and the lighting is all done, just hope i don't have to tweak the gameplay too much from its original ID state! 
<- Me, Cool 
Sent. 
EEP 
I'm still working on mine! I can get it done in a few hours, I swear!! I SWEEEAAARRRR!!!! 
I Guess.. 
..the sensible thing for me to do is admit mine won't be done for tonight. it's pretty much finished, but unplaytested and unvised. balancing the gameplay will probably need a couple more sessions of work & i can see fullvis taking a fair while. so hopefully should be out as a standalone within a week

good luck to all those who made it! 
Hi Peepul 
Im stuck in Vancouver airport, and I can't get out for a cigarette... :-|

It occurred to me that my map has a problem - monster count is broken. I'll fix it up tomorrow and re-send :-0

There is one monster which doesn't teleport on hard, at least.

Apart from that its's fine!!! 
Hi Peepul 
Im stuck in Vancouver airport, and I can't get out for a cigarette... :-|

It occurred to me that my map has a problem - monster count is broken. I'll fix it up tomorrow and re-send :-0

There is one monster which doesn't teleport on hard, at least.

Apart from that its's fine!!! 
OK - I Put A New One Out! 
When is the release date? 
So 
why are there not more URLs being posted in this thread that end in '.zip' 
CLARIFICATION BECAUSE I'M A CRABASS 
That was a serious question. there were several people going "almost there this is gonna be great!" and now the thread's dropped off. the only actual release I've seen was the one Ricky mailed us. 
Lun 
I 'finished' my map within the time limit. I gave it to speedy. Speedy wanted a full vis. I started full vis. 2 days later it gets to 97% full vis, so I leave it running over night. When I wake up, it hasn't budged. So I leave it on during the day. When I get home, it hasn't budged. So I cancelled it.

Anyway, spd has a fast vised version of my map. 
Zwiffle 
Send me a map and a wad and I'll try.... Which light are you using?

Mail is in the post :P 
 
I sent mine to Speeds yesterday. It's not great but it's all I had time for. :-/ 
 
I had only two free week ends to work on mine, and I really don't like the results so far. 
Oh 
were submissions supposed to be emailed to speedy? 
 
I dunno. He emailed me asking for it so I sent it. 
Lun 
I dunno, I looked for some indication on who to send maps to, but since I saw none, I figured I would just send it to speedy since he organized this thing. 
Obviously Yes? 
I mean, who else would do the packaging? 
Lol 
I sent Speeds a copy of the version i finished before I went to America for a week, he sent me an email beck saying thanks, but the judges were Metl, Bal and Lunaran, so I made another version when I got back with a couple of bug-fixes and emailed that one to all four: - Speeds, Bal, Metlslime and Lun! :) 
Yes... 
i got that map, just waiting for the other entires! (from speed or whoever is supposed to send them to me.)

If you are the only contestant, i guess that makes judging easier. 
Hehe 
Nobody wins? 
Spd 
Are we supposed to send our maps to all the judges or are you packing them up? Let's get this sh!t done. 
Send Them To All Four! 
That's what I ended up doing.
Although according to Lunaran he has only recieved my entry, so maybe send them to Speeds. Just send it already! ;P 
Who Cares About Judgement Anyway 
Just pack them up and release. 
 
Yes, since I'm going to finish last anyway - screw the judging! Just pack and release. :) 
How Long Will It Be Before 
your map is done Willem? 
 
I sent mind to Speeds. It isn't done but it's as far as I'm going to get. Gears2 needs me... 
I Understand 
that's how I felt about mine. Except for the gears part. I personally think that a map can be expanded until all limits are met.

It is my intention to make a map which will work in FitzQuake but is @at@ all of the limits.

E4M1RMX was the fastest compiling map I ever made! 6 minutes man! Slave took 2 and a half days!!!! :o If I kept going at that rate I think the first limit I would hit would be lightmaps (after edicts or signon buffer) (!) P 
(oh Just To Add E4M1RMX Was Miles Off The Limits I Think....) 
 
 
"I personally think that a map can be expanded until all limits are met."

That's true from one perspective and not from another. More paint could be added to the Mona Lisa but would that make it better? More notes could be crammed into Stairway to Heaven but would that make it a better song?

Sometimes a level is done. 
Hmmm Yeah 
More notes could be crammed into Stairway to Heaven but would that make it a better song? </Q>

No but scrapping the lyrics and hashing the riffs into an industrial breakbeat remix might...

Good point otherwise, possibly a topic in it's own right (not least considering Digs' impressive recent base map - drenched in details, was it too much? Or not?) 
 
Dunno, can't run it. :P 
Ok 
But as a mapper improves generally so does their technical understanding of what works and what doesn't.

The warp maps all took less than a day to compile - much less for most, but only because I've been fighting with Quake engines for quite a while.

Ricky, the difference between 3towers and slave was good, but I saw more improvement technically than in gameplay / style (already good).

You learn the tricks as you go along - even though you say slave took two days how long did 3 towers take? And thats just from one release to the next.

Sadly alot of the explanations of how all this stuff works have gone 404 over time so its not as easy now to find Quake1 specific explanations of visualisation and Binary Space Partitioning.

The cool thing about these remake maps is that they're pretty much limited by the original size as well, making it easier. 
Heh 
First came 3 towers which took almost a week, then came The Hand which took 4 hours then Slave took 2 and a half days :o

When I was making slave I know vis would be a bit borked because I knew I was going for a wide open space again, which Quake doesn't like.

But seriously, e4m1rmx takes 4 minutes to vis !! 
E2m5rmx.. 
..takes 2:30 on fastvis. that isn't good is it? 
2 And A Half Minutes? 
sounds great! 
2 And A Half Minutes Fast-vis?!! 
Well that could take more than a couple of hours to do a full (level 4) vis!!!

Maybe like a day or something??!

Place your bet's now!!!

(see if Willem will do it for you RJ, he's got multi-threaded vis on his sexy Mac ;P) 
Willem 
Where might I find the code to that multi-threaded vis, so I can at MPI support? 
 
Here's the latest version that I posted. This include multithreading support for both LIGHT and VIS:

http://wantonhubris.com/ToolSrc/

The thing is, this is really only good for Unix/OSX guys. The function calls won't work on Windows. Someone else will need to add that support. 
Where Can I Pick Up A Compiled Version Of That? 
not that i was planning on using it right away, but i couldn't find it on your blog 
 
If you download ToeTag, you could delve into the .APP package and copy it out of there if you wanted to (on a Mac, natch). It's still a command line tool, I'm just calling it from within the editor. 
 
Willem 
Could you include compilation instructions? 
 
Load the project file into XCode and hit CMD+B. :) 
Willem 
Could you somehow export it out of xcode so it is in a portable format (if it isn't already)? 
 
Are the files not readable? There should be a vis.xcodeproj included in the ZIP (I just downloaded it to check and it's definitely there). Double click that if you have XCode installed.

On thinking about it, you'll probably have to download the other file there called "Original id Tools.zip" because you'll need the "common" directory to compile - I think.

I'm not prepared to spend TOO much time on this to be honest so I hope that helps. The changes, in all honesty, were minimal. I basically just uncommented the threading code that Carmack already had in place and made it so the struct names and function calls matched the current OSX signatures. 
 
First thing I wanted to do was compile the executable:

g++ main1.cpp

or whatever it is. 
Inertia Please Take Coding 101 First 
 
Willem 
Please compile a open-source-code-linux-cross-platform-64bit-arm-multicore-x86-binary. If you can't your multi-threaded VIS is useless! 
 
GAH! func, now the greatest joke in the history of this board was lost because of the dreadful ...!
The last word was binary! Haha, funny isn't it!

ps: And I was making fun of inertia of course. :) 
Bah 
I'm sick of closed source bollocks in a community that, in large part, exists only because of open-source. I'm talking about the GPL engine code. We wouldn't have had Nehahra, or Marcher, or advanced quakeworld clients and servers, if we didn't have access to the id engine sources. GtkRadiant is open-source. How many of you have looked at the .map sources for legendary maps, like Pingu's A3? I think it's pretty cool that we can look at the guts of stuff like that.

Another thing, Quoth 2: Preach emailed me reasoning about how if it is open-sourced, people will modify it and then we'll have to download a new 70mb package for each new map release! Oh my!

As if any mapper would actually alienate his users by doing that.

It turns out I just want to read some modern, quake-related code, for the sheer enjoyment of being a quake fanboi who is liking programming more and more nowadays.

Keep in mind the engine codebase has been GPL for... how many years? Get with the thymes, people. 
 
Is this in reference to my VIS code? Or did you want the ToeTag source? I'm not sure what you're after now. 
Everything! 
 
Uhm 
As if any mapper would actually alienate his users by doing that.

I did with a fix for spawning tarbabies in quoth1 and coop options. 
 
If you're just grabbing stuff to collect it then I see no need to rush to get you what you want. *shrug* I'll probably release the ToeTag source sometime after Gears2. 
Willem 
Sure - as long as you release it. We're hobbyists, no rush :) 
Hey, Here's Something You May Not Have Considered. 
The world doesn't owe you anything, inertia. 
 
Thanks for the flamebait, I'll eat that and shit it out into my gold-encrusted toilet and wipe up with cocaine-dusted $100 bills. 
Hmm 
So, Er, Looking Forwards To Seeing These Maps Huh? 
I am! This is gonna be cool! 7 RMX maps to play with!

How long must we wait? 
 
Speedy, you are being missed! Hope everything is fine. 
Any News About Upcuming RMX Pak? 
 
 
I submitted to Lunaran, so he has mine now since spd fell off the face of the earth. 
Yeah 
So I wonder if I'll get my next project (an episode) finished before the judges feel like they are ready to release our hard love's labours? 
 
It's dead, Jim. Move on. :) 
What Do You Mean "its Dead"? 
I don't understand! 
Damnit Jim 
I'm a doctor, not a mathematician. 
So 
the lizard's dance or whatever was released on its own, zwiffle sent me one I haven't played, and ricky sent me one and I'm afraid I lost it could you send it again plz :(

Who else was mapping? 
 
I was but forget it. My entry sucked balls. :) 
Yeah.... 
if i ever see a second entry, i might actually judge them. 
This Is Silly 
Okay I Played Them! 
Tested them all on skill 2 in fitzquake.

e4m1rmx (ricky)
Best architecture, hardest. Respawning biosuits were clever and added some tension, but it was a pain getting caught without one. Bonus points for lasers. first run demo: http://lunaran.com/files/e4m1rmx_lun.dz

e2m1rmx_spirit
Easiest, neatest exit. Fun secrets. Looks like it was built by a reviewer. :) first run demo: http://lunaran.com/files/e2m1rmx_spirit_lun.dz

e4m7rmx (zwiffle)
Cool architectural set pieces and details but visually unconnected - the sea of blue brick between them looked blank. Most vicious, flying vore circus wtf. I somehow bypassed 20 monsters in this map. first and second run demos: http://lunaran.com/files/e4m7rmx_lun.dz 
Nooo 
Please let's not release the maps as "singles". If all participants feel like releasing must happen now, then let's package the maps into one nice solid zip with readme and stuff. This zip then would go to the judges. I have no idea what their job actually is but I guess it would be something that would go into the zip too (textfile?).
And then it shall be released. But why not wait three more weeks until QExpo for this. :)

If you want I would do the packaging.

Speedy, you are reading this, what's wrong? :( 
So When The Pak Will Be Released? 
 
Ricky 
lovely looking map! The lighting and brushwork are absolutely superb.

Was never of the original's layout and the remix suffers a bit for sticking pretty close to it but having said that there's still quite a few nice gameplay bits. 
Yeah 
Release them on the QExpo. 
 
yes nitin, RickyT23 improved so fast that put everybody nuts :)
he become a great mapper! 
Lun 
Please compile the maps into a pak file, or maybe better a zip file and post em on a newsthread! Then the judging can commence!

Or gimme some URL's mappers, via em@il, and I'll do it myself.

Willem - Is you're map playable? The early screenies looked buff, and you said all along (except for the later hours when gears2 consumed your time) that it was playable. Except for the other time I recall when you said that the mapsource had seeded corrupt brushes, - but you said you fixed that!!

How far did you get? You plan to pick it up for a later release?

Feel free to play mine people, link's above. It's on the hub.

Or if you plan to Quake expo it then you'd better moderate it out.

Whatever man. 
Ah Well 
Would have been nice to have a coordinated qexpy release, but if they're done they're done - no need to stand on ceremony.

Ricky, I'll play it tommorow. 
 
i think the more important stuff in this pack is lost...

Speeds please comeback!!! you are a huge stone in this game. 
And My Kidney 
So it's just those three then? 
@Ricki 
The hub link is dead. 
Yes 
because the nazi host does not like chickening out of a pack even if the starter is AWOL when there are better alternatives. 
So.... 
What's the delay again? 
Waiting For Quoth3 
obviously.. 
Ok, Let's Pretend Quoth2_1 = Quoth3 
Unless any of the participants objects, let's do this:

Participants send maps to me.
I put them into a zip and send it to Metlslime, CZG, Lunaran and Bal.
They sent whatever they are supposed to do back to me before QExpo.
I bundle it into a proper zip and it gets released during QExpo.

So send me your maps (Ricky, I already snatched yours from the Shub-Hub of course). 
Yeah Thats A Plan! 
Saves having to felate Spds!

Curious though - what's that got to do with Quoth? 
 
Zwiffle?
Anyone else? 
So... 
There are three maps. Qexpo is almost here. Should we just put the three maps in a zip, and release the pack during qexpo? Or will there be more maps? 
^ Sounds Good 
I just remembered that I even made a start map. With, well, corridors to 8 maps... Guess that is worth nothing more than a laugh now. http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/8820/blehhf9.jpg :)

Willem said above he send something to Speedy?
HeadThump, what about yours?

Don't be so perfectionistic, just throw out what you made, you can always refine and re-release something later. 
Start Map Looks Cool 
 
Hmm 
So... I was reading through this thread trying to comprehend how the entire first quarter of the game has been shotgunned when I realised something...


I think I can actually summon DaMaul. He was working in Oxford a few years back same time I was with than/pingu. Afaik Pingu is in touch with him...

Ofc, this may be late night insanity. According to irc Lun is asleep before me despite being 8 hours in the past. This worries me. (The fact I believe timezones to work like time machines doesn't ;) 
Hah 
Anyone who can summon DaMaul on demand has great power at his fingertips... TREMBLE IN FEAR, MORTALS! 
TALKING TO ME? 
Spirit: 
why didn't you ask him about inventing bears? That's the first thing i would have asked damaul. 
Metl 
I have no idea what you mean. Don't forget that I am not in the Quake community for a long time either. 
Spirit, 
it's one of the old things people always say about damaul, that he invented bears. the origin is actually before i joined the qboard/qmap group, so i don't know the details. 
"What Do We Want?!!?" 
RMX maps to be released!!!!

"When do we want it?!?!"

Preferably some time before the end of Quake Expo 2008! :P 
 
DaMaul also invented Mill-K. 
Rmx 
the pack is coming, speedy came back as a zombie. 
Http://www.speeds.quaddicted.com/rmx 
I Heart U 
 
 
yes yes....downloading and looking forward to play it. even the screenshots look great. thanks to all involved :-) 
 
Hey, this looks like crap. Why the fuck would you unleash this plague upon our peaceful community, spd? Why do you hate us so much? 
Really Gad To Se Willems!!! 
:D :D :D :o

Nice one - worth the wait!!! 
Eh - GLad To SeE 
 
 
fgdfgnsdf csdmfvsdb quake 
Yet Another... 
.. moron camper... 
He's Got A Point 
Sums up the content of the discussion on this board quite well. 
Yeah 
Bees Motherfucker Hippy Lizard and Three Point Clipping Tool 
Bump! 
http://rickyt23.com/maps/remakes/e4m1rmx/index.html

There is a download link from Quaddicted.com, accessible via my website ^_^

Maybe a mod should link Spirit's mirror in the sticky? 
Post A Reply:
Name:
Title:
Body:
message
question
exclamation
idea
flame
noflame
error
skull
beer
moon
pent
rocket
sheep
pacman
pig
cheese
worldcraft
gauntlet
crate
pitfall
pimp
smile
cool
sad
frown
oi
yay
tongue
evil
wink
neutral
q1
q2
q3
ut
hl
cs
doom
dkt
serious
cube
Website copyright © 2002-2017 John Fitzgibbons. All posts are copyright their respective authors.