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Q1SP (Quoth2) - Slave To A Machine
OK, here is my new map! There have been a l00t of high quality maps/mods to have come out in the past month or so, here's my contribution. This one is for Quoth2 so make sure you have the second part of Quoth installed.

Also note that this level is meant for GlQuake engines, preferably ones with .lit file support for coloured lighting. I would recommend FitzQuake or JoeQuake, both engines have been tested with this map, and work properly. (NOTE: JoeQuake users type "loadsky dragonheart" to view the skybox) Darkplaces has a bug which causes it to remove all of the doors from the map!!

This is a medium/large base map using Daikatana, Doom3 and Half-Life textures to give a tech/industrial feel. Almost 180 monsters on hard. Expect to see random telefraggings and in-fighting!

Here are some screenshots:

And heres a download or two:

And heres the mapsource:

Enjoy! :-)
Nice Stuff As Always Ricky 
Lighting was a bit dark for my taste though, but everything else was great. Brushwork, texturing, gameplay balance, all good.

I'd like to see you do a medieval themed map. 
It's impressive how you can make such huge but detailed levels. And I like fact that you've been sticking with the hi-tech theme. The texture set was generally very good and blended in nicely with the skybox. The new monsters were used efficiently.

The level took me a bit less than 20 minutes. I didn't get myself killed on normal. Here's a demo of my first playthrough: 
Thanks Ricky 
for another good map. Your name has come to be associated with good atmosphere and intense combat and great fun in my mind! With just two previous releases and this one! 
shots look good, can't wait to play this. 
Those screenshots look great. 
My first run:
Crashed once (thus maybe the first demo is borked) and then died once later.

The map is impressive and the coloured lighting is used well.
Some minor things were annoying (apart from the hurting debris and missing "hit" feedback of breakables...), those were the brushes that stood in my way or affected my movement in combat. Most notably some structure in the floor or the black/yellow lights (? don't really remember) on the sides of ways. Those could have been skipped/"illusionaried" well. But that is my way of playing and taste.

Textures and brushwork are great. At first I thought the textures were external high-res ones.
The Quoth monsters and non-base Quake monsters made me really enjoy playing this one even though it was another base map. :p

One funny thing: When I came into that "outer rim" grey concrete way on the side of the map the engine somehow reset gamma to 1.0 making it pretty dark. At first I did not really notice, then I thought "hm, rather dark here", then "wow, did he just used some trick to add a day/night effect?". It looked so nice with the skybox. But then it was way too dark in the building again. :)

Great job! 

You have become a real good mapper fast!!! i�ve enjoy the map very much... i died in a easy place because my wife call me a lot of times :\ fuck women�s when they piss us of during pure pleasure(Quake SP), so there it goes my first demo that goes till there.

The rest of the map was very balance not as hard as previous releases from you, just think the map is to hard in final area, but maybe i�m just a fucking noob ;) the rest of map made it with no deaths.

love the brushwork and the layout!

thks for this 40 minutes of fun!!! :)

ahhh 1 complain didn�t run in joequake :p
play it with glquake ;)

fixing the link!!! 
Wow Nice Shots 
looking forward to playing this. Looks like you've actually used coloured lighting well too! 
The map looks fantastic, very nice texturing style and as others have said, the coloured lighting is done very tastefully. Nice skybox too :) It was however way to dark, I could not see my attackers 50% of the time so that kind of ruined the gameplay for me unfortunately. I took some screenshots so you can see what its like on my pc...

A good tip (in case you didn't know) if you want to have a dark map but keep enemies illuminated is to light the floor a lot brighter than the walls / roof as the characters are lit based on the brightness of the floor below them.

The areas that were brighter were great fun to play though, monsters were well thought out and placed intelligently. I did get a bit annoyed at the constant spawning of enemies behind me (usually fiends) that then proceeded to snap my neck in two. I finally worked out that the warning message was to warn of enemies from behind... ;)

Overall.. Very nice map but the darkness kinda ruined it for me at least. 
Ricky / DaZ 
Ricky: �ber map, thanks alot :D

there�s idgamma: (at the bottom)
These are the idgamma paks I use, maybe they can be of use:
Makes GL engines brighter without the washed-out look. 
Holy Shit 
Those shots look great, very impressive.

Feedback soon. 
Played around with the gamma a little and got it looking acceptable, second play through was much better as I could see what I was doing :) 
Thanks For The Feedback Guys! 
Im glad you're enjoying this map! I enjoyed making it, and the new Quoth monsters are really cool! I'd just like to thank Kell and Preach (and Necros) for Quoth. Especially the new monsters.

Its great that some of you have posted demos. Unfortunately I'm a little busy to watch them right now, but I definately want to ASAP!

Cheers! :D 
Looks like a custom Quake 2 map, with the type of wall panels and buttresses etc and how they are assembled. Plus the colored lighting. Do you have a Q2 background Ricky?

Outside reminds me a bit of Ijed's maps (fucking huge angular walls and red sky.)

One thing though, I'm pulling my hair out over maps that have a lot lower r_speeds. I hope to replay this and some other maps one day when all you gamer types sell off your hardware and I can snatch it up cheap.

I can't say more because I didn't finish it, need to buy a new computer first. :-P

Another thing regarding the use of Rocketeers in big maps: When they are far enough away, i.e. the area is large enough, it is possible for the player to not hear their firing sound. This has to do with the distance that sounds travel in Quake, and the effect is that guided rockets appear out of nowhere.

I just wanted to mention that. It's another practical limit to map size. 
[spam deleted by metlslime] 
I Was Wandering When Somebody 
would say something about r_speeds. They are quite high in places, particularily around the outside area. I know this. I mean Ill be the first to say that this map wouldnt do for old computers. And making it 10 years ago would have been nigh-on impossible. Vis times would have seemed infinate, and thus nobody would actually get round to compiling it! Throughout the build I have vised this map three times. It takes long enough! I wouldnt have wanted to do it on a 486 100mhz processor ten years ago!

So I would like to appologise for knowingly missing some people out who are using classic hardware. I would recommend running this map in some sort of OpenGl accellerated engine. The map should run in any Quake engine though! The only one which I wouldnt use is Darkplaces, because of a bug where all of the doors dissppear! I think this might be to do with one particular "logic gate" scenario, where I think four doors/buttons are right on to of eachother so to speak. If anyone can think of a solution to this, please let me know.

Trinca - Good demo! Which progs are you using? Some monster spawning and more importantly the sentinals did not appear 100% correct. 
Not possible for me to play it now, as I'm in Phoenix, and my laptop do not have Quoth installed yet (shame on me... I know) So I'll come back soon for sure.
Regarding the shots, it indeed looks great, while a little bit dark... And I joined Trinca on the fact you made really good progress in a very few time... nice to see that ;) 
It's "wondering" ...with an O not an A
"wandering" is a totally different word.

Nice map btw. 
Another thing regarding the use of Rocketeers in big maps: When they are far enough away, i.e. the area is large enough, it is possible for the player to not hear their firing sound. This has to do with the distance that sounds travel in Quake, and the effect is that guided rockets appear out of nowhere.

I've realised this too, and it's annoying. Because 'far away' is one of the things rocketeers are supposed to be useful for.

My suggestion would be to have the rockets themselves makes a distinct roaring sound, which might be enough to give the player a warning as they approach, in time to dodge a bit.

Attenuation can also be mucked about with. Necros decreased the attenuation on the gaunt idle sounds, so that they travel across large areas to create spooky ambience.

Will see what Preach has to say about it. 
More Feedback 
Haven't quite finished the map yet, but I've got most of the way through before dying. Shold have quicksaved :P

You seem to like the ALien3 style, and that's good. Cause no other bugger has ever tried it except me, and you've got it better than I did in kdmw. The heavy doorway surrounds are fucking class.

Your use of colored lighting is the best in Q1SP so far. Admitedly, no-one has done that much either, but your most recent mappage is a good demonstration of how colored lighting can/should be done for Q1.
The grubby yellow general industrial lights, the emergency-red in specific locations, the cool-blue against the less frequent gray metals. Good stuff.

Your style overall - texture choice, skybox choice, brushwork, monster placement - is still a bit haphazard. There's a lack of coherency or overall concept. At least, one that's visible.
But still, I attribute this to a volatile mixture of talent and enthusiasm, which are both very welcome.

Rock on. 
Excellent stuff Ricky. Not so thrilled with the textures, but your brushwork, layout and detailing are all spot-on. And I really did dig the colored lighting, to boot. And yeah, the overall feel and "fuse hunt" reminded me of Q2 immediately -- but nothing wrong with that. You are the bomb, sir! 
Good Map 
Almost felt like another game - not a bad thing.

Not quite Quake2 (not as stupidly slow) but it shows what can be done with good old Quake still.

My favourite bits were the exploration and manic telefrag spawns.

Some of the eldritch monsters felt a bit out of place, but nothing too invasive. Would have liked to see some more combinations of the new base monsters, but can't have everything.

Nice work. 
that looks class. i cant wait to play this when i get back. 
I liked it overall. I thought it felt like a Quake2 map which I guess was the point (obviously that's due to the colored lighting and the use of the Quake2-ish texture set).

I found the monster mix to be alright actually. Not sure why I didn't mind the wide selection. Maybe the place didn't establish enough of a familiar theme for me to mentally rule some of them out. Like how when you see a base.wad level you really notice the medieval monsters a lot.

Anyway, good work! 
Slave To A Machine & Darkplaces 
to play this great level with darkplaces you have to do only one simple thing. load level in any alternative engine (maybe not ANY...i tried only vengeanceR2, tremor and joequake :-). save level immediately, quit quake, start darkplaces as usual (-hipnotic -game quoth) and load level from save. all doors will be in place and working. 
Wow, Great Tip! 
Thanks Jakub!

Still hope lordhavoc can fix it, though. 
Yeah! Very Nice Tip! 
Im gonna try that later! (me likes eye candy) 
wow, congrats Ricky, very great map :) 
Another great Q2ish map with a good layout, some non-linearity, tasteful coloured lighting and gameplay that felt pretty fair on Hard (and yes, that means dying a few times.)

I liked the small touches like the broken door going up and down and the spiral things in the generator room and other unique details. Great ceilings - I looked up a lot.

I found 3 secrets - not bad but most took a few tries to find.

I found the light levels to be just fine on my machine. I really wonder if this is an NVidia vs. ATI thing since I had complaints about my maps being too dark when I thought they were just right. I used Fitz and while there was some slowdown, framerates were still good on my 5+ year old machine.

So thanks Ricky for a fine map to add to 2008's collection. 
this is more quake2 than quake2 ever was!!

I really really liked this map. The most impressive aspect (and there are many) is the atmosphere, its so...oppressive. You always feel under threat, exploration feels dangerous, and theres just a general air of unease about the whole thing which caught my attention straight away.

The look is definitely impressive, I loved the use of the main texture set (is it daikatana textures on the main bttresses and walls?) and the coloured lighting usage is easily the best in q1. And I also dig the big, chunky brushwork.

As for the gameplay, its just heaps of fun. Its hard, but I had no real prblems with ammo or health. There were a couple of areas where thebrushwork gets in the way of movement (maybe some judicious clipping could have fixed this). And the non-linear layout is also very nifty, you can go either way and will still end up on the correct path to progress.

Definitely one of may favorite recent releases. 
Oh And No Problems With The Light Levels Here 
I use idgamma though so maybe it doesnt work right without it. 
Another Good Map 
Though I enjoyed "Sick base" and "The Hand that feeds you" a bit more. Texture set is Ok. Good use of colored lights.

light level is always a problem: wehereas I can play quake with gamma 1 on my TFT It is really dark on a CRT. 
Just Finished It, Ricky 
That is one sweet ass layout. I may have to revisit it later for some highly inappropriate fondling and hit the cam record so you can watch. 
That Would Be Cool 
Hmm, is the world ready for a 5 minute spoilers speedrun yet?

(I've got one ready)

I've also got a Nightmare run demo with 0 secrets, 23 minutes. 
Better Than DKT :) 
Ok Iv played it and its quite cool and rather Q2/D3-like.
Very nice architechture details, and believable building structure but the texturing could be more effective to highlight the shapes and the edges.
Lighting is interesting, with the nice use of color but it should be brighter for sure and again highlight the areas of importance, like passages and spots to look at (which it does in some places indeed, but not everywhere)

The whole idea with the objectives and locations that make sense isnt carried far unfortunately and you still have 'some bars have opened' and many other things that dont make any sense. Still its pretty cool that you tried to give more purpose to the usuall "press some button to go further" stuff. Thumbs up!
Combat gameplay well ... I played with cautiousness and didnt get 'fucked', but overall there were many unfair situations, like the totally unseen grenaders somwhere above you in the complete darkness. Those generous RAs helped big time... hmm cant think of much else now, Im fairlty tired atm
Also the RL secret - if you dont get out on time the bars lock you and you cant get out!
So overall its a cool map with high quality brushwork and the right ideas which need to be carried further but gameplay could be more 'clear' and less 'wtf just hit me' 
....when did you become so wise recently? 
Although I did enjoy this map a lot, you seem to be making a habit of putting gugs on top of platforms that can only be accessed via lifts. This makes it unfair IMO because if you fall off, chances are you will not have enough health to make it back up.

I'm personally not a fan of the gugs earthquake attack. I can see why it was put in to create a tense situation where the player cannot hide for too long. But I think the radius is too large, and when used improperly it's to easy to create hopeless situations for a player who accidentally goes the wrong way.

If you're going to have a gug, make sure the player is 'locked in' to the arena so they cannot stray too far (as done on red777 and the test maps). This I believe also creates the kind of epic battle the monster was designed for. 
you playing with quoth2? I didnt notice any gugs (or is that what he's done on hard?) 
Well Here Goes . . . 
SPOILERS ! ! ! (I Mean ^ ^ ^ >:- D ) 
Fuck The File Must Be In Configs Dir 
Thanks Spirit! 
OK, not drunk anymore, just to clarify; There are two demos in the file linked to above, one is a nightmare run with zero secrets, about 23 minutes. The second is an easy speedrun with all of the secrets there. It took me five minutes, but I'm sure that time could be greatly improved on! 
Go On Then 
Here's a sloppy easy run:

1:42, 17/111 kills, 2/4 secrets. 
Easy Run In 1:04

Thanks again Ricky for the great map. 
Your architecture keeps getting better and better, but you keep pulling bullshit maneuvers with the gameplay like the ever-so-tiring "Look behind you, it's a surprise vore and now you're just fucked because there's nowhere to go."

Went up the gold key lift and was faced with about thirty guys all jammed in my face. Great. And what's my reward for surviving? A Gug, and a shoebox to fight him in. stopped playing at that point. 
Gug was Sielwolf's idea. Glad you played though. Blunt but helpfull.

Honestly, this map was another big learning curve for me. The hardest thing was vis-blocking (which as you will notice there are large areas with shit vis-blocking). Second hardest thing was conception and texturing. I was determined to move away from the IDbase texture set, cause I'd had enough of it. The textures I was using were just what I picked out by eye when browsing through what was on offer. Hence the lack of theme I suppose.

As for the gameplay I really dont know. Parts of it worked out in a way I liked, but other parts could be volatile. I wanted the player to enjoy the NG/SNG, but then get thrown out a bit when supplies ran out of nails and have to use their imagination with explosives and shotgun.

Heh! I tested on Skill2 then moved up to Nightmare and downscaled from there.

Skill2 I thought worked quite well, with the Vores I mean. The area where the Eliminators start is fun because you can use the Vore-balls to take down other enemies, run round the crates in the middle quite easily. Skill3 however this becomes a lot more difficult. My tactic was to retreat and attack the enemies as they came to you to an extent, but you cant avoid taking damage when the Vores first spawn in. The Gug could back you into a corner in the top room outside with the computers on it (the shoebox) but I figured with the YA and PG you could hopefully take him down. I figured it would work because there would be a panic moment where the player is faced from all sides , but the Gug was far enough away that the player would be able to get to a position where they could kill the Gug quite quickly. I the idea of having a Gug on the balcony because I figured it would be pretty climatic. I think what I did wrong was to have the Gug spawn in from behind.

I also think what I did wrong was to start playtesting in skill2. Skill3 would have been better, because I would get to see the 'worst case scenarios' and Nightmare players would be protected from unfairness.

Did you play in Nightmare Lunaran? 
Another Great Map From RickyT 
I realy enjoyed your latest maps, this one included. Usually base maps aren't my thing but you manage to convince me to your style and to the quoth monstery also. The texturing, brushwork and coloured lights were great for me and the same applies to your previous map.
The gameplay. It just feets my shoes. You manage to keep the player moving quick and reacting fast. I played on hard and I was twice very low on health but I managed to survive. Skill 2 here seemed to be comparable with skill 1 in The hand for me.
Here is my demo from the first play (it won't play in fitzquake)

Keep it up. I can't even imagine how great a medieval map from you could be. 
Nice Map 
I didn't think it was too dark. But I played with gamma 0.5. Never used idgamma, don't understand what that effort is about. Fitzquake has a command called gamma, use that.

Nice with the bobs hunting me behind breaking boxes. Found one secret. Lots of nice details at places. The plaques helped a lot when trying to hunt down some places. Sometimes hard to see the color of the enforcers with them standing in the colored lights at ledges...

*spoiler coming*

At a few places there were cool gameplay things like when you came to a clearing and spotted a bob on the left, started firing at it and then a fiend came from the front. So the bob was only a distraction.

The sentinels are pretty nice enemies in that they don't have such huge masses of health.

I was in trouble at places since with fitz I have to choose either a good res or dinput. I played this without dinput then and that means mouse acceleration so I was shooting all over the place. Also took off crosshair to make nicer screenshots. :)
Here's one (ran with xnview's auto contrast) 
I didn't think it was too dark. But I played with gamma 0.5.


Never used idgamma, don't understand what that effort is about.

This is what it's all about:

Default palette:

Palette tweaked with idgamma:

It's not about the brightness so much, it's all about making it look non-shit.

Fitzquake has a command called gamma, use that.

No. Anything other than gamma 1 is bad. Make maps look good with the proper gamma value please. 
id gamma is a low prescision pal shift which kills all the details on the brighter spots and it shouldnt be used with an engine that supports proper overbrights, like fitz or dp 
Interesting Info Speeds 
I'll try Fitz without idgamma, but I imagine I'll just go straight back to it. You know how it is, it's all down to what you're used to.

Especially considering the relatively low res or otherwise poor quality of quake textures (badly converted custom ones for instance), I'm more interested in what looks good at a glance than what is 'accurate' or 'precise'.

Then again I'm someone who cranks the saturation up on my monitor/drivers because I like stuff to be colourful... real artists look at my screen and bitch about the colour balance... :)

I used the idgamma converted palette originally to make standard glquake look less pants though, so I'll have a go without it for the sake of science. 
well, tbh some maps look better with IDgamma, some look worse, depending on the textures and the lighting 
Heh - People All Have Their Monitors Set Up Differently 
for starters, secondly lots of modern graphics cards can do things to the appearance of 3D images.

The word of advice "to try and get the lighting in a level to the same sort of effect as in the original Quake levels" is probably a good idea!

I may have made this a tad dark. It was meant to be quite dull and dark in places, but people having the effects that Daz did, #11, well I must try to avoid this for the next map!

I have found FitzQuake to render things a bit too light in the past, and wished I could turn the brightness down a bit more, but only ever to a tiny degree, and it was probably to do with my Nvidia control station settings or something (?) 
was perfect for me, not too dark but grungy and moody. 
In the nvidia controll panel is a option with video brighness/gamma/color...

Does this apply on games too? Someone tried? 
I Played On Skill 2 
but you cant avoid taking damage

Every time a level designer says this and it's not phrased in the form of an apology, a kitten dies in a house fire. 
Dear Fribbles, 
I luv u.

Need more petrol? 
I can vouch that it does, have witnessed this phenomena! Play Quake. Go into your Nvidia control panel and tweak the brightness settings. Go and play Quake again. Anyone tell me it doesnt affect the brightness? It does with FitzQuake for me! Im on an 8800GTS512 using XPHome32. 
Lunaran Is The Law 
All Hail 
Lunaran, the Moon God

Religiously offending material to follow:

I played on skill 1 after reading Lun's outpour. And yeah it's a bit forcing at places, even when I knew about it. 
Your architecture keeps getting better and better, but you keep pulling bullshit maneuvers with the gameplay

Sounds like Strombine - like the part where you walk into that big room and there are two snipers taking head-shots at you. I got killed - stopped playing at that point. 
you mean the ones that take turns firing once every ten seconds in the room where all the cover is as tall as you are?

The alternation was a tad nonintuitive (my fault), so I don't blame you for not catching on. It was designed to add some time pressure to keep the player moving around - the safe zones are always changing, but in a very predictable back-and-forth way. Two independent snipers didn't really give that away as obviously as a better-designed enemy might have (like a single helicopter in an obvious orbit or something). However, once you pick up on the pattern, it's actually pretty easy to clear that room without being hit a single time.

A Gug in a room that size would have been reasonable. :) 
some textures were as if 8-bit reduced quality or something like this. but impressive lightning. and good level design. another good map that would go good in an episode along with "the hand" map and "sick base"...
i was stuck at the gold keycard, probably because had only quoth 1.
the actual playing (shooting, monsters)... well.. decent. 
Look Closer 
wrong thread but hey 
Just to repeat what the others probably said already: nice map. Good variation on the base theme with the DKT and whatnot textures. In most areas the conversion artifacts aren't noticable because of the dim lighting - colored lights worked well. Some areas felt a bit minlighty though.
Gameplay was ok on skill 1, a few quothisms here and there but it always worked out for me. No ammo or health problems. Found the upper RA secret by accident.
I got stuck behind that girder thing in the GK room and between one of the outer walls and the rocks, lack of clip brushes there.
You've expored the base theme very far - I'd like to see you try something else for the next map. ;) 
seems legit lol

(note: didn't click on it) 
Dead Link 
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