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OQPlus GPL Replacement
Ni hao,

I'm forking OpenQuartz and calling it OQPlus (formerly known as the Open Quartz Decrapification Project) for now because I don't like OpenQuartz's direction of 'what'. OQPlus's direction is much more Quake-like than OQ will ever be so players should feel at home in it.

I know there are some anti-GPL snobs on this board and i'm not naming names but I wish for a refrain of them in this thread please. We get it, "GPL sucks" and you don't want to help. Thank you.

I'm currently replacing the Quake textures one by one from scratch, slowly, by hand with old fashioned pixel pushery. You can see the current SVN here:

http://mancubus.net/svn/hosted/fsfps/oqplus/

I hope to be able to:
- have all GPL'd id Quake maps compiled with textures, though due to size they may not be included, and I would feel guilty of scavenging Quake's well known levels from id software anyway.
- "out-of-the-box" experience for Quakeworld clients to join servers running popular mods like Team Fortress, as it may contain extra assets to suitably replace
- Run on all Quake ports including the original DOS Quake build
- Be a bit more memory efficient/faster than Quake (Quake used a lot of 320x200 textures for models in a time where 3d cards barely handled 256x256)
- Have a dark gritty atmosphere and not bright sunny day lets-kill-zombie-trees-and-guns-on-wheels-and-pteros atmosphere.
- sudo apt-get install oqplus
- Stunt the current scene of rampant Quake piracy (especially in quakeworld) by providing an alternative, legal, Free solution for those who are too lazy to give id software the money they really deserve (slackers)

Why am I making a thread? Well I hope to make this a long-term project that'll take some years to do so a soon-forgotten smidge on the Jobs Wanted thread wouldn't do. Besides I like serious discussion than "help plz" anyway :)
 
so instead of stealing Quake, you're just going to fully remake it, exactly the same, except now it's free, and likely has horrible lighting, effects, textures, and models? 
 
I don't see how something that runs in quake.exe, using the id maps is going to have horrible lighting or effects, unless you think quake.exe and so on have horrible effects, and you think the id maps have horrible lighting.

Textures and models are another issue, but having seen some of his other work, leilei does make a concerted effort to keeping a feel. I trust him in this over... just about anyone else, especially on making it look good for the detail. He has done some weapon models (which actually fit in fairly well with Quake) that are sufficiently detailed, but are significantly lower in poly count than Quakes. 
Interesting 
OQPlus (formerly known as the Open Quartz Decrapification Project)

haha, truth. Open Quartz is truly horrible, but I guess they heard everyone loves fighting evil trees.

On the map front, I don't know if you noticed but we're running a remix-a-original-quake-level competition right not, some of them changing the theme and some of them just improving the quality of the architecture. I'm sure if you ask nicely when they're done a load of guys won't mind GPLing their maps. Also I'm guessing you've played the e1m1rmx and e1m2rmx maps that have already been released, if not, try them! The quality is much higher than in the original maps.

Texture-wise, I don't know about copyright stuff at all, but how different do the GPL textures have to be? Could you, for example, resample a retexturing project down to original texture sizes if that retexturing pack was built 100% from scratch?

If that would be legal, I've got a idbase retexture pack that I'm pretty proud of that I'd be happy for you to use for whatever. I haven't GPLed it, but hey, I could, just need to figure out how!

http://www.quakeexpo.com/booth.php?id=6 
Oh 
and could you possibly post a screenshot or two from what you've done so far? I'm not at a computer which I can run Quake on right now. Cheers. 
Also... 
if you need maps, this thread tries to track all the maps that have their source code released under GPL:

http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60094 
Starbuck 
Here's a screenshot of Tyrann's Devourer (lol) map with some very quake-like from-scratch textures. Super Shotgun is untextured.
http://openarena.ws/fsfps/devoured.gif
I also made a bunch of skies to use also, since just blue, and purple skies get old. ;D

Also no, unless its totally from scratch (which the quake retexture project ISN'T) it's not allowed. Also, resampled textures look UGLY. Also your retexture pack isn't legally okay.

metlslime - most of those links are broken and/or not gpl :(, would be nice to check out your maps again though. 
Yeah 
someone needs so pay czg's subscription 
 
I can see 2 crosses, some sky and some wireframe at the bottom. Otherwise that screen shot is completely black. 
 
same ^^ 
I Would Guess Theyr'e Slightly Exaggerating 
but perhaps the textures could be a little brighter! Also I'm not familiar with the map particularly (although Tyranns stuff always looks pretty cool in screenshots), but if it's a very low-lighting room perhaps a shot in a brighter area would be better to showcase the texture. 
Also 
If you are going to take on the huge task of (re)making all the content of the game - why not create something original? Doesnt even have to be a new game, maybe just a standalone partial-conversion. People will never gonna like the remake over the "real" Quake and will still play the original, unless ofcourse you make it look 99% the same AND better (and I dont see that happening for many reasons, just look at the re-texturing project for example)

I really dont know how much the re-make need to differ from the original to be considered
'legal', but I believe Starbuck`s textures are
(Legal for a free distribution, that is)

and QW scene is using gay texture and weapons replacements anyway and the maps and the engine are GPLed. So all they need is the player model and the sounds to call it legal :P 
Speedy Makes Some Good Points 
Personally, the only thing that really interests me about this is the potential to release something of a higher standard than the original quake, that people could easily and legally download, and would showcase the work of people in the community to new players.

That's why I mentioned the remix-project really. E1m1rmx and e1m2rmx genuinely improve the quality of the maps, and hopefully the new entries will too. No need to only include new versions of the old maps though, there are some amazing maps out there whose authors would consider releasing under GPL if asked nicely I think. If the whole thing was brought together under a cohesive theme it could be great.

Most of the work would involve making new monster/player models though, and if you've got skills here, then congrats, it's hard to find (Preach is the very obvious exception that springs to mind).

If you're saying that texture packs are only legal if made from scratch, then that means my pack is legal, at no point did I sample anything at all from the original textures. If you're not interested then no worries, I'm just trying to save you some effort. For what it's worth, I've tried resampling them and I thought it worked great.

Is Quoth GPL by the way? 
OK, Humour Me Here . . . . 
What do you mean by GPL? Y'all can do whatever the hell you want with my shit as long as you aren't doing it to make money. And you put a credit somewhere where folks might see it. :-) 
GPL 
Does nothing to prevent anyone else from making money with your work. I can take any GPL work I like, be it the linux kernel or a quake map, sell it as my own and keep the profits, as long as I make the source to my version avaible under the same GPL license. 
RickyT23 
Yeah 
use the already largish amount of excellent free textures (knave, speedbaze etc) and custom maps. "Only thing" missing is some monsters, models and I think some progs too...

I mean, you can save so much effort. 
Speedbz 
speedbaze is based on IDbase and metal and hence not a legacy free material Im affraid 
 
"but perhaps the textures could be a little brighter! "
No because then it'll look horribly ugly with overbright. I'm trying to maintain the low brightness Quake had. I wonder if anyone plays Quake at gamma 1 (I do)

"If you are going to take on the huge task of (re)making all the content of the game"
pfft this isn't a huge task, i've done bigger :) (OpenArena). It's definitely not impossible, and with an artist team this can really speed up no problem.

"People will never gonna like the remake over the "real" Quake and will still play the original, unless ofcourse you make it look 99% the same AND better"
That doesn't matter because you can't apt-get install quake for the full game in linux. This is more likely to drag in newcomers which the Quake scene really needs right now.

"I mean, you can save so much effort."

Those are non-Free. I am very serious and strict about the Free license i'm going with. There will also be no careless "Fair Use" of copyrighted materials either. 
... 
Those are non-Free. I am very serious and strict about the Free license i'm going with. There will also be no careless "Fair Use" of copyrighted materials either.

That's a laudable aim, and I agree, in order to draw in new people to Quake, a truly free and legal open source game is the way to go.

How closely are you planning on following the content of Quake? Are you going to copy it theme for theme, level for level, monster for monster and so on, or are you going to include custom levels and themes?

Maybe if you set out exactly what you want in the game, then mappers might even GPL some non-GPL maps to help you out, who knows. Are you even looking for help by the way, or is this more of a watch-me-progress-with-my-project thread? 
Hey 
I appreciate your effort.

Is it qw playable already? I might test it...

Were the progs released as gpl? 
Eewww 
pfft this isn't a huge task, i've done bigger :) (OpenArena).

I gave the latest OpenArena version a try:

Models: Shit
Sounds: Shit
Textures: Shit
Maps: Shit 
 
starbuck: things will be less lovecraftian but they won't be lsd trips. i'm still going for demonic feel. There will be no anime involved. I promise. Yes i'm looking for help but this is also a progress showoff thread too.

bambuz: progs are released as gpl, however only 1.01 and qw 2.30 are gpl'd for progs. 1.06 is nor :(

spirit: go eat shit 
 
well if quake remake will look somewhat like this ... http://openarena.ws/shots/angelyss-dark.jpg
anyway goodluck and try to stay true to the style 
 
so there will be gargoyles? 
I'm 
Working on a remake of Ep3, maybe I can pass on the mapsource when it's finally finished.

GPL? Why not. 
 
starbuck: things will be less lovecraftian but they won't be lsd trips. i'm still going for demonic feel. There will be no anime involved. I promise. Yes i'm looking for help but this is also a progress showoff thread too.

Haha, no anime at all?! That'll probably work out for the best i guess :). It's kind of a shame you're lowering the Lovecraftyness (technical term) and upping the demonic stuff in my opinion. I always think demonic stuff in games is usually pretty cheesy and immature, and it's a problem that id software have with almost everything they've ever designed, especially Doom 3. Personally I think there isn't much *less* unsettling than a flaming goats head, pentagrams, etc, just so cliche.

What I love about Quake's theme is the grainy dark forboding architecture, the arcane machinery, the indecipherable symbols... basically all the Lovecraft stuff that they mashed in without much finesse, but somehow it really worked!

I'm biased obviously, I always loved his stories. Come to think of it, I may be the only person who loves ancient space tentacles but doesn't like anime. 
No, My Friend 
I'm biased obviously, I always loved his stories. Come to think of it, I may be the only person who loves ancient space tentacles but doesn't like anime.

You are among brethren, I'm sure the extreme manneristic nature of anime annoys more than just the two of us on a board dedicated to Quake mapping. 
Among Brethren 
Indeed. I cannot tolerate anime, but I love Lovecraftyness.

I suspect with leilei going more demon than Lovecraft however, at worst it will shift more towards Doom a little. Doom3, the demon stuff would've been more effective had Betruger not done his silly laugh which I guess is supposed to be scary, but he mostly just spawned Imps. With tons of forewarning... Doom3 evil only felt evil really with the very few 'ghost' bits.

Fuck thats off topic. 
Hello 
I have done a basic site and I experimented with retexturing. There is a brief image comparison between the original OpenQuartz and OQPlus if you're too lazy to read the words.

http://openarena.ws/fsfps/oqplus.html 
Cool Site 
top screenshot looks nice
keep up the good work! 
Except 
the top screenshot is not oqplus
it's the 'crappy project' i'm forking from 
Uhm 
Can't really tell anything from these screenshots because they show different architecture. It would be better for a side-by-side comparison if both screenshots were made in the same place in the same level. 
Nice Webdesign 
makes me really anticipate the quality outcome. 
Harsh. 
 
But Seriously... 
we don't really need to see what openquartz looks like. We just want to see more of what your project looks like. 
 
Well, the shotgun looks fantastic and the textures are tasteful and good. But there is nothing funny or cool about a crappy presentation (the site). Same as with the OpenArena site. :( 
-_- 
Spirit Sucks 
Spirit - Well aren't you the picky one? Judging projects by the quality of their site. At least it isn't flamboyant pink and brown eugh. I put functionality first before any flashy site. There are no rules saying I need a professional web site design for the project to advance.

Metlslime - I needed a quick shot comparison to emphasize on the fact that we're taking on a retro style. OpenQuartz is retarded, OQPlus is not.

Speeds - ew that site is quake trademark and likeness, and not generic for all of the projects, HATEHATEHATE 
Leilei (lol?) 
good luck with your project. Sadly I can't model or something, I can pretty much only map and do minor coding... I can write documentation, translate and playtest though... if you think I could help somehow, feel free to email me, golden_boy in People/profile.

Do you know the SynQ project? You think it would be worthwhile to team up with Baker?

I much respect your understanding of the GPL, and your aim to stay on this side of it :-) I share your viewpoint about some of the existing custom textures and their relation to the GPL or copyright... btw if you talk too loudly about these things in the Quake community, you can pretty much expect a spanking. :-/

where do I know your nick from, Hexen2? GemRB? I can't put my finger on it but I saw you elsewhere in the big wide open source world.

are you giving your textures the same names as the id ones? If so, it would be rather easy to retexture existing (and future) GPL maps. If not, we would need to retexture each map by hand :-/

you want to use the GPL mapsources by Romero? If so, may I suggest not to do that, because I tried retexturing them for 6 months before breaking down and starting from scratch. I'm redoing ep.1 atm. I will probably GPL it anyway, and if you can supply me with free replacement textures, I'd consider applying them at no extra cost :-E Requirement: They must be drop-in replacements, both visually and concerning names, i.e. wizmet1_2 must still be named wizmet1_2 and look remotely similar. I hope the copyright doesn't extend to texture names?! Because that would make it a lot more difficult to retexture maps...

If you want to see what I did so far, mail me.

Possible deal? 
Ok No Quake 
Leilei 
Listen dude...

Im a mug for base maps. Gimme a full set of base tex and I'll knock you up a map. I'm not about to stick a time limit on myself or anything, but I'll help :D !

I'm no texture artist or anything, but if you gimme some textures, I'll whip you up a bsp. 
Alright, I'll Shut Up With My Criticism 
You could try to get Rouhis on board.
He made some fantastic item models and just started on monsters.
Items: http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?id=312
Monsters: http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2960 
Lol 
3300 poly Fiend, 1500 poly Vore? right.. 
 
Ruohis said that the polycount should be close to classic Quake, no? IIRC. Has he changed his mind?

IIRC he also denied GPLing them so far (somebody else asked IIRC) and that would pretty much be required. He seems a cool guy though, so if we could present to him something that's halfway finished/finishable, he might agree?

I don't know if his models/skins CAN be GPLed anyway, since they're pretty clearly imitations (copies) of id's ones. You can only put a new license on original stuff. leilei said something about no shady fair use tactics. I mainly see problems with the skins here (similar issues to textures.) The models are pretty much code, right? and they're from scratch. Skins are pixels/artwork just like textures.

I think we would probably need .mdl (and .pcx) versions, too, unless leilei wants to restrict the project to certain engines?

A .mdl exporter for Blender exists, thanks to Preach...

Of course it would be easier if id decided to freeware Quake as a promo gag or something (it's happened before, for example Tribes...) or to celebrate the 15th anniversary... hint hint... would save us so much work (well remapping would still be desirable...)

a question out of interest, would you guys tolerate an ad-financed freeware version of Quake? Seems to be the current trend... say they did to Quakeworld what they are doing to Q3:Arena... 
Ad-financed Freeware Version Of Quake 
 
gb - Baker only cares about scavenging existing crap together just to form some crude looking Quake just to get people to play on his servers and join his forum (as well as illegally exploiting the data from the shareware version). No thanks.

I also wouldn't really need to 'retexture' the maps since I can just compile them with the new WADs from the project. Retexturing them to use existing textures that are available is missing the point. Have you seen FreeDOOM?

http://freedoom.sourceforge.net

RickyT23 - Just work with the Quake texture wad for now but don't post a BSP ;D GPL'd .MAP files are key here.

Spirit - Don't you understand? We are NOT copying Quake!!! We're going for a feel LIKE Quake. Things won't look exactly quakey, but it'll feel quakey. Also those models are ugly, and I am my own favorite low-poly modeler. GPLing those would be a bad idea since it would bring more misinformation onto the internet that Quake is public domain material.
SPOILERS: it's not

gb - but the MDL exporter for Blender is broken as much as the MD2 script. I still export to MD3, then go through a painful process to get that down to MDL. 
To The Point... 
do you want any help and suggestions at all?
or what is this thread about 
Come On 
as well as illegally exploiting the data from the shareware version

Do you really think anyone actually cares?

Seriously. Id software included - do you actually think they care, assuming the content is distributed for free in a non-commercial project?

Disregarding any bullshit hardline stance, what is the point worrying about this kind of stuff? Id isn't going to dispatch a crack legal team to come after you. Even if they get wind of it (and care enough to stop you), I imagine the worst you'll get is a cease and desist email from the Carmack. 
Also 
On a completely unrelated note, every time I see OQPlus I think of the crap I used to see in WoW and on those forums (the whole QQ = cry more thing).

Given that I have that association, I keep thinking this is the cry more quake engine project! 
Ok, Last One 
I have nothing to say, just two quotes:

Don't you understand? We are NOT copying Quake!!!

............

I'm currently replacing the Quake textures one by one from scratch, slowly, by hand with old fashioned pixel pushery.

Discuss. 
Bleh 
So it will look like Quake, smell like Quake, sound like Quake, but it will not be Quake.... Err... are you biased or what ? 
@ Leileo Aka CheapAlert 
as well as illegally exploiting the data from the shareware version

Nice bald-faced lie, Cheapy.

Isn't it time for you to change your name again? 
JPL 
I would have said hypocritical, but whatever. :D

Apparently it's OK to completely rip off all of the original textures (copying the look of the textures and even keeping the original names intact), but it's totally not cool to use the source maps that were released under the GPL. 
Baker 
I don't think anyone is actually taking this guy seriously anyway.

I do like his style though... as soon as anyone offers any help or feedback, he starts getting aggro and insults them. Smooth.

I can't wait for the next installment of AssQuake, which will be just (not-quite) like the original, only with vastly inferior textures and smelling vaguely like ass! 
Well I Was Serious 
It's a serious offer! :D

What kind of maps do want there to be with this?

If you want me to work on one I will, I'll help!

I can make you a .map file if you want, although I use Worldcraft 3.3, so I dont know how you intend to compile them but the maps will be Valve v2.20.

What textures do you have? Sent them to me and I'll start working on something :D 
@Bakeo Aka Adolf Hitler 
"OPENARENA USES Q1 RETEX PROJECT TEXTURES I HAVE PROOF AND YOU ARE WRONG I AM RIGHT"

yeah lies all right, you know your "freeQuake" guilt. You're just jealous because I actually putting effort and talent into my stuff.

also fyi, "Cheapy" lives in Sweden and is dormant from the internet. He does not hang around anymore. His constant racist 'nigga jokes' won't be missed. Don't you dare try to associate me with that useless dog-dick-sucking furry bastard.

Mr Fribbles - the textures are actually pixeled from scratch and some look very similar (not much you can deviate for a blue rusty metal texture) while some do not (like my rock wall texture, damn it was hard pixeling each individual rock on a 64x64 with shading and all!). Most of the GPL'd Quake maps don't even compile into working versions that can be played so they're not quite a priority right now.

RickyT23 - check out the SVN and use qpakman (found seperately, on the forum) to build the wad files using the batch file. You also have to SVN update for any new textures and then rebuild the wads quickly with the batch file again.

No there's not much textures yet but (hopefully) I should commit the FreeDOOM texture pack to the SVN soon. They're really fun textures and bring out the rusty brown look most custom maps of 99-2000 had.


We won't have a unique Q nor will we use the Quake Q either. It's a registered trademark.

Speeds - no i'll live with my site fine thanks 
I Guess Frib Is Right 
and this is a big joke
are you serioulsy proud of your textures?
nothing personal, but they are very weak. some dont even tile (link in the original post)
But you seem to be content with low quality standards and want to make all the shit yourselfs, and reject any criticism.

... as soon as anyone offers any help or feedback, he starts getting aggro and insults them. Smooth.

so its just timewasting
/thread 
You Can't Expect Gold Immediately [Speeds] 
Give it time and they'll improve, barely any project ever starts out gorgeous. 
 
I rejected 'criticism'? So far I only rejected a quake-derived site, a quake-derived texture pack, and general assholism. No real actual helpfulness rejected (Thanks RickyT23, and metlslime, your contributions to this thread are appreciated)

To make you scampies shudder, I have Dr. Shadowborg involved. What now? Gonna judge the project entirely as crap from his contributions, from the fact he helps this at all?


Low quality? Excuse me? You expect me in my spare time to crank out 512x512s and hundreds of skyboxes instead? I'm doing this port-neutral. 
Slow Down Guys 
My popcorn isn't done yet. 
 
That whole popcorn thing is so tired. When will it die? Every thread that gets the least bit heated, some tiny brain has to pop up with a comment about getting popcorn. Die. 
*Gets The Popcorn* 
down in front! 
Hey 
IT'S STILL POPPING DAMN IT. 
Leili 
Please calm down.

You posted on a elitist site here, so what were ou expecting ? Any mercy from anybody ? Come on be serious ! You should check what has been done in the past 11 years, and check what were the progresses done so far onto engines, map, textures, etc...
Nobody is blaming your work nor your passion for Quake, but maybe your project, given the its quality, is maybe out of date, and came too late compared to the nowadays quality.... though...

Well, at least you can now only progress..... :P 
 
ofcourse you are happier with a shit-derived website

and let the people judge which side is crap http://www.speeds.quaddicted.com/openquake-textures.jpg 
OK. So: 
1. Someone finally buy me a mac so my brain automagically enlarges. *munch*

2. Leilei, please pay close attention now:


.
.
.

WHY THE ORIGINAL MAPS NEED "RETEXTURING"

The original textures are badly aligned and thus look a lot worse than they possibly could, so just exchanging them for new ones (like the QW community does) inherits this same fault. Just using new textures doesn't cut it (from a mapper's point of view.)

.
.
.

WHY THE GPL MAPS CANNOT BE USED

The original maps were built on a comparatively tiny grid (16?) and this means that the texture alignment problems are "built in". You cannot align a 64x64 texture to a 80x48 wall. Clear? So in order to finally properly texture the maps, they have to be entirely rebuilt on at least a 32 unit grid, i.e. all (most) faces must be a multiple of 32 or sometimes even 64 in width and/or length for the textures to properly fit onto the brushwork. Clear?

Plus, for a map released under the GPL (and thus meant to be modified and added to, or developed) it is desirable to use meaningful (semantic, hey, I used the word!) targetnames for triggers and entities. The original maps use numbers, thus it's totally opaque to most people which trigger targets what entity. Not good. Clear?

Plus, it is desirable to iron out bugs, re-add parts that were cut from the original release, finetune DM and monster/item placement, correct wrong sounds, and generally expand on the original concept (we like this one best.) The original developers were limited to 1.4 MB per map, but we aren't, thus we can improve where it is obvious how to do so. Clear?

Thus, it is not only desirable, but inevitable to remap the entire game.

That is what Ijed and I have been doing for months. And what I described above is a chunk from our collective consciousness, or the development thereof. We both tried the GPL sources method and it does not produce acceptable results, and is problematic to work with, and actually slower and more painful than just doing it from scratch.

Thus, using the original maps in combination with replacement textures will not, no, CAN NOT produce good results.

Understand better now? 
Don't Be Such Smartasses 
What does the look of the site have to do with the quality of the actual thing? This is a secondary concern. Though, indeed, some (more) comparison shots would be good.

Yeah right, a large part of the game (the maps) is already available under GPL, but still you'd prefer to completely remake all of it (~35) instead? Their quality is questionable alright, but it doesn't really matter. Who cares about the targetnames as long as they work? If the new textures resemble the old ones in theme and structure, it will look just as fine (or poor for that matter, but that's irrelevant here). Who cares about DM settings? Hardly anyone plays those maps anyway. Fixing all those things is indeed desirable but not necessary, i.e. can wait.

It was already mentioned that this thread is supposed to be more of a progress report than an actual help request, so why reject it so keenly.

I'm actually interested in seeing some of the new content, especially the models, as I think it's quite a challenge to create something Quakey without at least hinting at Lovecraftian style (=tentacles and no eyes :P). 
Gb Shut Up 
 
 
??? czg, go back to playing with yourself plz. 
Yeah What Nekke Said 
the models especially! 
Peace Of Shit Game! 
what is the point of this game! it sucks ball! play Warsow instead if you want to play a real gamers game. 
 
so, nozzle, playing any real games? 
Hey 
I think this is a pretty good idea. 
The Models Do Look Good. 
Basically what Gb says - the original maps are pretty poorly built by todays standards, replacing their texture sets is just going to give you crampt, buggy maps with what look like a few amateur looking photoshop efforts splattered over them.

Good luck with the project anyway. 
Leilei 
I know I sounded patronizing, I'm sorry. I was just pretty convinced about that stuff.

My offer stands, after Remake is done (not tomorrow, mind you) I'll gladly donate my maps to OQ+. They will be (insert open source license here) anyway. 
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