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Quake Expo 2008 Discussion Thread
August 15th - QUAKE EXPO BEGINS!!
New URL is:
Nothing Is Fixed So Far. 
Currently a (or more) leaders are being searched and thus I thought it might be a good idea to post. Maybe someone from here would like to volunteer?

The planning thread is here:
But the usual happy cross-community people will surely follow this one too and bounce communication (if you don't want to post at i3d). 
It looks like Jehar is up for doing the main hosting of it, which should be a change of pace as he is a Quake2 player/mapper/clanguy (some may remember his article about community from the 06 expo).

However, speaking from experience, it helps to have another person contribute to the news load, as it can mount up quite quickly - I am willing to help, but a third is welcome. Also we are open to people organizing other events - such as speedmapping or matches.

I am assuming we will be using the same booth code as 06 which Sajt wrote, unless I hear otherwise, so what is lacking is a site design for this year, and additional support. 
I am assuming we will be using the same booth code as 06 which Sajt wrote, unless I hear otherwise, so what is lacking is a site design for this year, and additional support.

Hey, I'd be down with designing the site. You don't need it before the 16th of may, do you? 
Roughly When... 
will it be happening? Mid June again?

Sounds cool. I should have a couple of nearly finished maps ready by then so I can postpone/speed up release to coincide with QExpo I guess.

I wonder what state other maps are in. I wonder if Tyrann will be able to finish off his big base map. I hope he still checks the board from time to time. 
I could deliver 2 turtlemaps. Id metal and base, using Quoth. 
I have to speed up if i want to deliver my base map.... hhhhmmmmm sounds difficult... 
If you think of something you would like to ask Trent Reznor (Quake-related in any kind) please mail me. If he finds the time he will answer what I send to him. 
i'll mail j00 
So Whats The Date? 
if it happens at all... 
i might have my Maya map ready on that tdate! 
I Withdraw My Announcement 


I'm looking forward to posting the same two screenshots of rubicon2 i used in 2006 and 2005 and 2003. 
And I Look Forward To Briefly Viewing Them 
and experiencing moderate interest, which quickly turns to disillusionment and general resentment. 
Fuckin' Hell Guys... 
What do you think I should do?

I've tastelessly grilled you for support with my web-authoring, ranted at you profusely about dumb stuff, you seem to be enjoying my produce, er... I feel happy to have gotten into this game...

What can I say?!!

I'd drunk again, im in the process of putting the gameplay into e4m1rmx, it's 3:30 here, Saturday night!

Bhlah de Bhlah-blah blah....

(Ughh, ny mate was picking a fight with gypsies before, and I tried to break it up... nothing happened in the end, but it was just stupid, cause my freind was gonna floor this guy, who was "looking for a fight" and the guy was skipping from side to side and everthing!)

Meh... :-|

Well anyway, I ' seen the stuff in the previous Quake Expo's! If you can imagine me at the age of 23, my previous band had broken up (well, I knew the band was gonna break uo, and I guess I started looking for Quake the 1st-2nd of July last year) and I was on Google for the first time in ages checking shit out! First I was looking at music videos on Youtube, cause I thought it was ACE how you could find all of the stuff you liked in one place like that (edit ;-|) then it was looking at entemology (sp) like pictures of spiders, camel spiders and shit lik that, then the memory of Quake entered my head!

I remember when I was 14-15, after I had got used to having a PC, before I went completely off the rails, and was still in high-school! I had made a small episode for Quake called "insomnia". It had new progs and everything! 5 maps, re-skinned enemies, except I had only 5-increment pain skins for enforcers, dogs and feinds... I had a custom console background, custom HUD (in the style of a calculator) and blood splats. I was using the auto demo-playback of quake to make an intro (which was pretty stupid) without naming the sequence anything other than "demo1", "demo2" and "demo3". I had five .bsp files, although I sold my old PC when I was 17/18 (hehe) and lost everything :-(, also I had another PC, which was an AMD equivilent to a celeron 266 (an early one) and I had it overclocked, my mother eventually recieved this machine and it exploded. Nonetheless I lost all traces of this creation (which I made completely naive of the other stuff which was going on in the community at the time)

I salvaged one map of the entire thing and it's crap and I would never post it...

When is the 2K8 Quake Expo?

Should I make some sort of Website for it, hosting my maps?

Rest Easy... 
I'm in charge! (Tries to muster up bravado)
Ahem, well, you might want to worry after all - but just a little bit. QExpo08 is going to be continuing as planned with full force and expectation. However, I'm going to need some assistance, as some of the previous handlers of certain matters have been AWOL as of late. Going to need a web developer\designer to help out with the page layouts and handling booth transactions. Not to mention the booths themselves. Bring all your projects :D 
In Addendum... 
Be sure to come by and idle\brainstorm in #qexpo on 
Wasn't Qexpo about releasing/presenting at least something NEW at some point in the past? I really liked that.

Jehar: Starbuck already offered doing the design and I couldn't imagine someone more talented for this job. 
I will have a map ready for release. And if than has at least one as well, Tronyn manages to to continue working on his almost finished WIPs, goldenboy undramas and Pulsar resurfaces, everything will be fine.

Hey Ricky, why not team up with Madfox and write some random and alienating abstract Quake poetry!!! 
HeadThump, where is your Zer map? 
I Was Thinking 
the same thing. That would be a good map to release for QExpo. So far, you are the only person who has seen it :) 
Do We Have Dates Yet? 
I'd like to anounce a limited resource level building competition to finish on SP day of the Expo.

Yes it's a real comp, with an award for the winner. David McKenna is working on a maquette of a fiend along the same lines as this , and it will be first prize. 
Oh. My. God. 
That is incredible.
It will be end of July as always I guess. 
Most Important Question: 
will it have eyes? 

Count me in for this competition.
2nd place gets a Quake rune from Spirit? :D 
The Plaque For The Alternates down in the ladies room. 
...the artist and I are in discussion about that very topic :) 
Winner's Discretion? 
I would hope the winner would choose 'no eyes' but perhaps not. 
Calling All Important People 
That means you Starbuck :D Could you get into #qexpo some time or pm me so we can discuss plans for the site?

BTW, news for everybody:
This is still going on track, and yesterday I spent the day with LordHavoc and scar3crow (in Eugene no less) discussing some qexpo possibilities. One thing that came up was the revitalization and printing of the Brushwork art book project. There's no shortage of material, and printing a limited run these days is pretty cheap. They'd make good prizes, no? 
When Exactly Is This? 
Anyone have an idea yet? 
Hey dude, consider me officially called. I like being called important too. Maybe I should get a top hat.

I'm definitely still up for helping out with the site... How about you send me an email and we can get chatting about what kind of style you'd like to go for? I could do IRC instead if you prefer, but it'll be a bit more difficult, I'm a bit busy at the mo and we're probably in different timezines, heh. Cheers! 
Also, Spirit 
very kind of you to say sir! 
Qexpo Dates - OFFICIAL 
QEXPO WILL KICK OFF ON AUGUST 5th - and probably last at least two weeks in the same manner as the last one.


Got it? Spread it around like a happy fungus :D 
My wife's birthday party that day, and the handin for the 256 competition . . . cutting it fine. 
I was expecting july and I want to have one map ready (I have several near completion) but I just don't feel like mapping much lately. August should give me enough time to get one of them finished at least. 
Where oh where has Starbuck gone? I've left him emails, snuck around his house at night, and have been fawning over his picture in the high school yearbook. But he's not returning my calls :(

Heh. You there man? 
Any luck finding him?
Do you have any update on whether or not the site will be ready? ;) 
I'll go ahead and paste the relevant snippets from his email:
"sorry about being MIA, I'm not actually dead, but I'm ridiculously busy right now. I'd still like to help, but I can't guarantee to have any free time in the next few days unfortunately. Currently I'm stuck in iceland with no real internet connection, and some rather intense project milestones to meet by friday back in the UK. Yeah I know, cry me a river.

Also, I hope you know I'm not much help to you with the backend coding side of things... my expertise is in graphic/web design, I'd be wasting both of our time doing database stuff. But hey, if you want some pretty templates done I'm your man!"

I let him know that graphic-wise, we'll probably simply modify some of the previous sites - provided we can get access from theplanet (or even calling Echon). We're still on :D 
can't finish my map for qexpo as not only am I busy with lots of rl stuff after having split up with my gf of 5 years but my computer has broken so I can't really do anything now. I hate computers. 
I smell a post coming to the Drunk Thread... 
my maya map will not be ready for ^Qexpo :\ this year i think i will have only screenshoots... 
Rough patch there :( 
Admittedly I heat up quickly, especially if the circumstances are encouraging (looking at no one in particular here), but let's say I undrama and get no additional shit for anything, then I could have a map ready. Deal?


I'm probably away for some time, between August 02 and 16th or 18th or something. I could finish it this week and then someone else could post it or I could deliver at the end of the expo.


-Expo end date
-someone to make a bunch of screenies that aren't too dark
-perhaps someone with a fast machine to help with VISing the final map
-a few playtesters again (OK Sielwolf? Neg!ke?)

good karma to Than :-/ 
I whould like to have something this year :( but the i dont think i can finish tchak even my boss will be away in the next 15 days... i need many many hours of mapping and i will not have time :\ maby next year... but i will be a "speedmapping" 1 day mapping for exemple i will join to contribue with anything! 
Sounds good.
- tentative end date would be August, 19
- ok
- ok
- ok 
Sorry to hear that. The maps are well worth the wait. 
I'll get my ass in motion then. 
YE than maps are to fucking sexy!!! 
July31 Here 
so will it be good to go in 5 days? 
Who's got stuff for release during the expo? 
Zero Time 
Always busy at least for the next few maps, so much unfinished stuff. I do civil service at the ambulance (instead military service) 
Ricky, Spirit, zwiffle, rj (?) - remix maps
negke - 768 map
gb - quoth2 map
probably some others? 
Someone Get Than A New Gf ASAP 
as his delicate wrist must be preserved for mapping only... 
Still Hope 
We might be a day or two off schedule, but I just got the php and mysql backend uploaded for the site. Just need to configure it all now. 
so? will we have a speedmap event or what?

:\ is the only thing i will have in time to contribute... 2 days turtle or something... :! 
Before Asking For Events... 
... will QEXpo happen... actually ?? 
good point JPL... :| 
From What I Understand 
some problems with mysql caused a hiccup in the calendar for them, but the relevant data from quakedev should be getting passed along to tastyspleen (they've already got the 06 php). i dont know where things stand at the immediate moment, as im only mildly in contact with the planners about it.

real life definitely interfered with my participation for anything Quake this year, as i surmised it might have. 
The site is up, the css is in, and all we need to do now is fix the accounts system. After that, we'll announce that booths are open for registration, which will run for a little less than a week. Then we're on! 
The site is live and running at - news posts and old booths have been cleared, logins work, making new booths work, etc. There are still a lot of tiny niggles to sort out, but I'd say that the site is at 95% operation. Regarding Echon - even if he is now available and willing to help, I think it'd be best for everyone and a whole lot less stressful if we kept the hosting that tastyspleen (railwolf and quadz) have so graciously provided. They have truely saved our asses this year, and it'd be good if everyone recognizes that. Many people have jumped in during the final hours and have pulled off their own heroics, and the site is now working in the state it is because of these people. I'll provide more detail on these individuals when I can pay more attention to it and not accidentally skip anybody. So, on with the Plans:
You're still allowed to futz around and put your booth in now, but be willing to encounter the odd bug every once in a while.
August 15th - QUAKE EXPO BEGINS!!
This will be the OFFICIAL opening date of all the booths - keep them private until then. For the intervening week, we want to see lots of people talking about quake expo, getting people on with their booths, and spreading the word as much as possible.

This year has been one of unfortunate absences, miscommunications, and some genuinely bad luck. But we're here. Hopefully you are too. 
Not With Me This Year 
I'm on holidays at the end of the week... and till September, with a limited access to the internet... :( 
If it's possible, it would be really nice to see it at
If Echon is back it should be no problem to setup and the long delay would mean that when it starts the DNS has surely propagated. 
Yeah... But... 
With all of the work that tastyspleen has put forward so far, I think it'd be best to keep this host. I can't stress enough how much they've helped us this time around. It'd be good to show our appreciation. 
Please update the link in the thread title ;) 
i tried to register but my username is already taken. Is there another metlslime out there somewhere? 
For some reason they did not remove the accounts from last time. You can request your old account to be deleted in the IRC channel.
Can't wait to see the new Rubicon 2 screenshot. 
thanks for the info. can't wait to post it. 
no need to request deletion, i guess i can just log in using the old account. 
And Post The Same Screenshot 
too bad they deleted my old booth, it was perfect!!! 
Which Year? 
There are at least two to pick from.

I would suggest adding czg like happy faces and colors and keep the info the same. Maybe add a really dark picture of Chthon from the back torso with the caption, 'Rubicon2?' to keep the Metlologist guessing. 
its today :D 
Four Hours And Ten Minutes Late Now. 
The tension is killing me. 
Im Looking Forwards To This!!! 
Heh - Sorry I didn't do a booth, but I believe there's a couple of things in there. Thanks to people who have done this stuff!!

The Booths Are Now Open 
Though it seems not many have been made public yet.

Arcade Quake looks cool. 
No Sign 
Of the Quake Remix Mapping Challenge maps.... ? 
Those are some high quality screens of the new map, as well as having possibly the coolest screenshot I've ever seen, that vertical shot of the entire map. Pure greatness. 
I Agree 
neg!ke's map looks badass. gonna set some time for it later. ^_^

the feral mod looks pretty cool too, in terms of capability. at least from what's on the site, no playable version yet. 
Quake Expo Booth! 
Tronyn has compiled 4 Top 10 Lists of his favorite Q1SP Maps, split by four themes: Base, Medieval, Runic, Elder World.
I will be publishing 1 top 10 list each day of Quake Expo: so the first Top 10 Ranking is posted today.

check my booth for more. 
Thanks. My plan is to release the map when the new version of Fitzquake is out too - unless there is a delay.

Underworldfan: Sounds good. It would be great if you also provided download links (e.g. Quaddicted) to the maps in the lists so people can grab them more easily. 
While I did enjoy the base maps list, I did think omitting NotoriousYay's "Hexameron: Phase One" was a very glaring omission, as well as Damaul's
"Grind Core". 
What He Said 
those are 2 of the best. 
Ionous, Tronyn 
ionous: pbrsp1 is at the very least worthy of consideration. I don't think I remember the other map you mention.

Tronyn: Small correction: The Secret Installation is IKSPQ5, not 4. I look forward to your other lists, even though base is my natural preference. 
That is one wonderful "declaration of love" for those maps. Can't wait to see the others. 
Glad To See Interest 
At one point I had Hexamoron Phase 1 on the list (sorry NotoriousRAY!) but I had to cut something because there were some maps that I'd forgotten about. I should have remembered to put it in honorable mentions though, heh, as it certainly pwns The Sewage System (id's best base map imo).

I've actually never played Grindcore - Damaul's stuff was mostly before my time (although I did like Suicide Nation) - I'll check it out.

this is part of the point of the article, to generate discussion for a more definitive list or at least "cluster" of top maps in each theme.

I left out non-id themes; I was considering doing an Egyptian/Temple list also, but I ran out of time. 
Enjoyable Read 
Though I don't see how would E1M3/4/5 fit into Episode 2.. they definitely have their own unique vibe.

Waiting for the other three lists :) 
grindcore in neh1m3 
Further Thoughts On The Article 
I personally think you put the wrong Distrans map in the top 10. His qte2m3 was simply fantastic, unmissable. Ruined Nation was definitely experimental, creative, but an overall inferior map to the Travail one.

Hmm, I don't even remember JJSPQ3. I'm going to replay it.

Well, it was good, an original theme, but this is not in any way, shape or form, a base map. Industrial, yes. I can see why one would be hesitant to categorize further, as that runs the risk of splitting hairs.

While I do like Military Complex better as an overall map, I agree with your placement, as this map is rather revolutionary. Where did you find out who did which maps? I'd be curious to know who the authors were, since I really feel the Hipnotic level designers upstaged the ID ones.

Totally agree about OUM3. I may have been tempted to put this 1. Maybe when Tyrann's new IDbase map is completed, he'll take the spot.

While I don't think Colony is the best base map ever released, it's certainly very high quality, and well deserved to be high on the list. Too bad Glassman hasn't been around in a few years, Markasbruch looked great. Last time I spoke to him, he said he was going to put up a more detailed web site with more information on his future projects. That never materialized, apparently.

Based upon your criteria, wouldn't CZG07a-b qualify as base maps? I would think those deserving of mention. Also of note is Rubincondom (sm82?), which was fantastic, Neg!ke's Aderlass1, Zerstorer's Bunker, and other stuff I'm probably forgetting. 
Thank's a lot for the article. It was very good to read. With your help I have found some very good maps (Colony, Subterranean Siege) that I have played for the first time today. 
Top 10s 
more to come, i just posted Tronyns Top 10 Medieval Maps, enjoy. 
Minor, Trivial Error 
Yes, I'm actually including a 100 brush map on this list. In this map, Hrimfaxi does more with 100 brushes than most mappers do with an unlimited brush count.

It was a one thousand brush contest. 
So seriously is anyone gonna post the maps that we made for the RMX mapping challenge fucking thingy, or should I just post mine somewhere myself.

I mean people were hinting for me just to leave it a couple of weeks ago, saying it would probably be ready for QuakeExpo, but I havent heard a thing from Speeds for months now, and I just dont understand what the fuck it is with this bullshit. I mean if I knew your were gonna be a bunch of fuckign fannys about it then I wouldnt have fucking bothered. OK? Im no fuckign Quake martyr. That aint my fucking bag. I've got a little more on my plate than that, if you know what I mean. If I want to get off I fuck.

If no cunt is gonna even tell me what the fuck is going on then what the fuck am I supposed to think?

If no-one's gonna bother posting them then I'll do it. send me the files and I'll knock up a page.

If not I'll repeatedly post ftp links on GA, and continually try to post as a news thread. So-help-me-god.

I didnt spend hours making a map so I could be told off for trying to distribute it.

Dont wanna help me - FINE! Fuck you then. See you later 
I Was On A Roll 
well done. You fucked me. 
Re: Articles 
Well it looks like I missed quite a few things on the base list, and I'm sure I'll be finding out what I neglected on the new list. It's true that JJSPQ3 isn't really a base, I maybe should have considered it too different for inclusion. I don't know who did all of the hipnotic maps, but I know Levelord did hip1m3 since he did an interview back in the day where he referred to how one only had to be "a god, a very humble god" to make a map like that.

I don't think the Zer bunker is good enough to be on the list; however CZG07b is one I forgot that's certainly good enough.

Thanks for the corrections/additions so far.

& yeah it's too bad we didn't get any more Glassman maps. 
Sounds like you have high standards. Quake needs people like you. 
in case people missed it, the video on this page is cool:

Totally looks as if DM6 was ported to the Super Metroid engine. 
Send it to metlslime, you whiny cunt. 
i have three maps:

e4m1rmx (ricky)
e4m7rmx (not sure who submitted it, no txt file)

as far as i know this is all the completed submissions. lunaran also has all three, i think. I think we both agree we should just pack it up and release it during the expo... we haven't heard from speedy in a long time. 
Thanks For The Update :) 
i appreciate that. 
should be Zwiffle's. 
Azure Apathy is indeed my map. 
The problems of dealing with people who're on different schedules, and busy. 
At #99 
ya as soon as i saw the rockets i wanted to play a bit of metroid, too bad me gameboy broke about maybe 6 yrs ago, cos the first person view isent as cool [ well it is but havent play side scroll met in long time :P ] 
Medieval And Runic Lists Are Up At UWF's 
in addition to three reviews (including the Lizard's Trance).

Looking forward to the other remixes. 
I am not quite sure whether you forgot or actually completely hated the map for some reason, but I am quite puzzled why neither Apinaraivo / Monkey Rage nor it's DM version Enraged made it into the base top10 list. Oh well. 
yeah I did forget that one. I'll easily admit that the base list is the weakest - not only are there by far the most base maps as opposed to the smaller pools of medieval, runic and elder world maps, but base is not really my area of expertise. Sorry. 
Can't Wait For... 
the "top 10 rubicon-textured maps" list 
More Interviews (i Forgot To Post The Previous Ones, Linked Within) 
Morbidity and Arcane, by they bring back memories. I remember being blown away by both those back in the day. 
Ziggurat Vertigo 
scores 2nd on the top 10 Runic maps list?

*blinks eyes*

ISTR a "worst map ever" thread on Quakeone where several people said "e1m8". So this score is mildly surprising.

I myself think it's an OK map, nice-ish even, but I wouldn't have expected this. e1m6 is better IMO, especially when you realize e1m7 is really just the chopped off ending.

An id map top 10 would be interesting. 
I've always felt it was really weird and unique; best id Runic map in my opinion and contender for best id map, although e1m6 was good. For once an id map that isn't freaking puny. I'm sure I missed other custom maps that should have been on there. Arcane actually still holds up well, Morbidity 2 is more historical interest.

re: metl
lol, well when you release Rubicon 2, I'll do one. Rubicon 2, Rubicondom, Rubicon, the nomonsters experimental map was rubicon style... am I missing any? 
I'm Gald That Kellmet1 Gets A Good Mention 
I thought the initial 14/20 was a bit unfair... 
Rubicon I missing any?

I've actually made 1,5 maps using that set! And was fairly surprised by JJSPQ3's inclusion. 
hrim_Sp1 is also one of the coolest runic maps 
You guys are forgetting that any top 10 done by a human being is that person's top 10. It is simply impossible to be objective. 
and it's not definitive even for me; there are things I forgot about, I only put so much work into it.

maybe after the last one's posted, people could post their own versions. 
good work anyway Tronyn. 
make booths guys.

Post screenies, pour out your wisdom, show each other pxxx - I mean booth babes.

Remember QExpo is as much for "outsiders" as for "insiders". And "outsiders" normally want to see glitzy stuff, or download something for free.

Registering an account is as simple as "welcome, you're in". Making a booth doesn't require any HTML knowledge.

yeah i thought the lists were great tronyn. course it's all your own opinion, i'm sure everyone else would have different top 10's.

it's especially hard to score when it's individual maps alone, rather than packs.

i wanna see the 4th list! 
Top 10 Elder World Maps? 
but just what criteria makes it an elder world map? :S 
i appreciated that he talked about individual maps within episodes, since so often people only talk about releases as complete units, even though it's not very helpful to compare episode A to single map B.

For example, I've long considered oum3 a favorite, and you could rank it against other maps such as ikspq5, but to try to ask "is insomnia better, or is apsp1 better" is bound to be useless and inconclusive. 
but just what criteria makes it an elder world map? :S

plain architecture, and lots of unlit areas :) 
Holy Shit 
#126 posted by metlslime [] on 2008/08/20 03:44:00
but just what criteria makes it an elder world map? :S

plain architecture, and lots of unlit areas :)

I might have a chance at making that list. 
Metl comes close to owing me a new keyboard. 
disorienting layout is also a prerequisite. 
Elder World Maps Article Is Now Up 
good points in this thread about the definition, which is easily the most difficult out of the four categories. 
Best List Yet, 
but it's a shame you didn't feel you could put Masque in there. :( 
Re: Elder World Article 
i had a feeling you'd have to open the definition of elder world up like that, tronyn. ;)

i like most of your choices, but i'd have put red777 first. it's one of my all time favourite maps. ^_^ it's the most intricate map i've ever seen with consistent architectural styles and amazing attention to detail.

also, i guess i'm wierd, but i kind of liked bastion more than marcher. :P marcher is visually stunning, but i felt bastion had a better overall vibe.

and yeah, definately masque would have been up there. that was a truly breath-taking map. 
I Made A Booth

Some screenshots and a blurb on the Remake project. 
to dark... :| that�s why joequake ownssssss pics are always fine... 
And The Maps Aren't Properly Lit Yet. 
I Think Trinca Should Make A Booth 
to celebrate his return to unlife aka mapping

and elaborate on his motives.

i�m to lazy this year... i�m in vacacion and at home i got no motivacion... i will participate next year... 
More Top10 Lists 
Inspired by Tronyn's top10 lists, I got the idea of making a semi-random list of less well-known maps that either feature somewhat unusual themes or gameplay, or that I felt at least deserve an honorable mention of some sort. 
I'll Probably Put A Booth Up 
in the last week. I'll have no more than a fairly large single player map ready for it though. 
I had less than that, but having more stuff there can't hurt.

There's a couple on that list I don't think I've played before Negke - cheers. 
Love That Article Tronyn 
quite a many insightful description. 
I feel a little guilty, about not having that monster pack up, but they are not ready for prime time. 
Stuff's almost always better when completed to its own schedule.

I take my hat off to Tronyn and Patrick for planning so that the nsoe pack arrived with the qexpo as it did. 
Re: More Top10 Lists 
Inspired by Tronyn's top10 lists, I got the idea of making a semi-random list of less well-known maps that either feature somewhat unusual themes or gameplay, or that I felt at least deserve an honorable mention of some sort.

but where's The Fly by Markus Klar? :o

seriously though, nice list. middle evil is an awesome map, it's just that the gameplay is not that great. i tried once and failed, but i'd love to see a new map using those textures.

precipice and kjsp1 are both awesome too. ikwhite is underused and i actually completely forgot about precipice.. wasn't it originally for some contest or other? 'outdoor' maps or something? 
good list; it would be nice if you put in a small blurb explaining what makes each map interesting. 
Re: New Top 10 
cool list, for some reason I'd never seen The Monolith Complex before - looks great! Also, Cobalt Palace was a really neat map. I agree on w/Necros on The Middle Evil. Maybe a speedmapping session could occur using those textures or something.

re: elder world
yeah, there really wasn't enough to do a "narrow elder world" list so it had to be broader.. it would be nice to see some maps that really take e4m2/e4m3 elements to a whole new level (using quoth of course)

I was also determined to pick individual maps as opposed to packs - seems better, a lot of stuff gets lost in terms of critical attention in packs. A vain mapper would release his episode 1 map at a time to maximize review words-per-brush - lol 
Just wanted to mention, i think its been a very good idea stretching out the length of the qexpo to 4 weeks, it give more time for everyone to set up competitions and booths etc, and the number of booths is already up to 50.

Also, I may have to do an overall top 10 q1sp maps, to complement tronyns top 10s. 
Quake Rangers 
I wasn't planning it, but I made a little boot on QExpo 2008.
My new map isn't finished, but I though to show some model explorement.

I added a small try-out level for the Bones model. 
I'm Not Sure What's Wrong 
but seems to be corrupted... something about a bad offset? 
and if the frames for the converted doom monsters are playing too fast, you can add a self.nextthink = time + 0.2; line in the frame function.
the default frame delay for animation is 0.1, but 0.2 is half as fast so that should make it look better, although it will be a very chunky animation in game. 
thank for the call. I renewed the file. try again.

monters need a minimum framecount for good exposure. 
The Middle Evil: that's why I wrote "not for everyone." It certainly offered a new approach to gameplay - however one that most people will find unsatisfying.

The Fly: yes, I guess this map would qualify for the list as well. If you can think of any other one that would fit, let me know.

metlslime: I might. Though for the most part it's their style. 
negke: well i mean, that makes it more of an "article" ant less of a simple list of links, which i think is nice. basically just rave about the maps for a paragraph each :)

Re: middle evil textures -- I believe the guy never released the wad because he didn't want people using the textures, for some reason. Of course, with people's attitudes nowadays, that won't stop anybody from using them. 
Maybe he didn't release the wad but he wasn't against their use: If you do want to use any part of this level for non commercial purposes, textures etc, give me credit! 
hmm... i guess my memory is failing. must have been some other level? 
madfox some of those monsters are pretty cool. the baron could work, as could the red tentacle thing. the tribolitus dragon looks kinda cool, albeit a little goofy. the tentacles are very lovecraftian. the skeletons i'd use too, although i would give it a gun. in undying they throw rocks, maybe that could work? or throw its own bones at you. 
i tried once and failed, but i'd love to see a new map using those textures.

Now you just be patient. 

They need to go in that e3m4-nightclub speedmap. 
those are awesome, especially the first two, I lol'ed

cool looking site too Madfox, that large medieval map looks great! Nice complex architecture, cool setpiece-based layout. (although as before mentioned, the courtyard needs more texture diversity)

Doom baron and tentacle guy look good too. If you're bored sometime, convert the Doom Pinky - I've always wanted to use these in Quake, as a powerful melee alternative to the Fiend. 
that hellboy ninja looks awesome 
Madfox + Negke = Win 
oh, you're my hero as my ex-wife (or i think it should go to the drunk thread :))))) 
I Mean As (like My) 
sorry :((( 
zomgggg negke great!!! :) 
Excellent Monsters!! 
No theyyhave a bass player. Just no guitarists. 
Oh, No Hang On, Context Is All Wrong.... 
Negke? Er.... I dont have a bass. Also I'm too ugly for that band. 
So Many Q1SP To Play 
Prevents Me From Mapping 
For Neg!ke 
Kona > the skeleton has a gun. I was planning to convert the Doom monsters, I was wondering if nobody else had done it?

Neg!lke > here is a hint for what they play...

all by meself, multiplay so turn open that tuner! Where is your pronouncion mark?

Tronyn, thanks for your reply, you made a new level I saw. Great!

Spirit, you played Doom I guess...

Bal, you roll...

Spy, I've got an Orb watching me constantly,
so I think that's not as worse as an ex.

RickyT23, don't blame Neglke, he's a bit weird after losing his letterframes. just enjoy the tune.

I had a pak with all the monsters in it, but it became such a masacre I decided it not to publish. Some moonsters need some after care. 
Negke Owns. Madfox Owns. 
I Think My Mind Has Cracked 
I Hope To Have All New Textures 
More Interviews 

Flashy and full of holes. 
How About 
pretty and easy to use? 
Is It Sad 
that i was expecting "covered in bees"? o.o 
Easy but a little bit simple? 
Bitchy And Shallow 
oh, no wait 
Disorganised but complex?

You are bad at this game. You need to use more women... um... I mean editors.

(the nonentity would like to make it clear that neither they, nor anyone affiliated with them, supports the practise of manipulating women with evile intent. Just brushes) 
You Know.... 
The #qexpo irc channel *is* up and active over on anynet... 
The Quake Band 
I put on Madfox's tune & had each of neg!ke's creations in a browser tab. Flipping from one to the other was like watching some bad alien music video ... or the Muppet Show.

Nearly busted a spleen. Classic! 
6 More Interviews 
more interviews
ORL, Pope, RickyT23, Scampie, Trinca, Zwiffle 
hope you liked the tune...neg!ke was only scrubbing his pronouncion mark.

may I call you djhack in future? 
My interview is the best thing in the Q1 community. 
I Dunno 
I thought that one unfinished map Madfox did was pretty good too. 
unfinished one did I do? 
you ment the upcoming level.
is there a Doom Q1 monster convertion already? 
#160- I wondered which Doom monster you call "pinky"? 
The Pink One 
i noticed you had the baron of hell on your site...

have you converted that one already? i remember trying to convert those monsters years ago and ran into a problem where they had too many vertices (i had preserved the md2 skinning by splitting up the mesh)

i'm guessing you kept the mesh intact and reskinned them? 
Did ID Release 3D Versions 
of the Doom monsties, or are these conversions of fan-made models? 
thanks, Lunaran, Necros

Indeed, at this time I have the Arachnotron, the Demon (or "Pinky"), and the Imp. It is not such a big job or that I do it when I'm bored.

It is quiet easy to export one of the stand poses in Qmle into a dxf one. Importing it back to a new monster gives the stand pose as base frame, so you receive a new texture skin.
In oppertunity it is possible in Qmle to match the root sector by dividing the atributes to parts, and save this dxf again.
When I open a new monster with model from base frame and import this dxf model I have the perfect texture base start for the monster.
Most of the other frames can be imported with import and exporting multiple frames.

One thing I can't overcome is the fact that some monsters have another vertice count so they are useless.
But the old quark47 can import the stand frame and make it collide as well as it can handel several verices.
Other Doom monster have the same count and they can match a full quake mdl.

Then there is the qc. My great harm... At the moment I can make them walk all three in Quake,
imported the doom sounds, but what I do, there is always one monster that doesn't die.
As if Doom wants to remind me of his Horn. 
I can't remember where, but I could download a full pack of the Doom models in md2. I think they are original, as they are three times bigger than QMLE could fit. If you want them... 
No Thanks 
I was just curious, what with the original Doom monsties being sprites. Guess they were probably recorded from 3D renders or something though. 
Doom Monsters 
the originals were either hand drawn or stop-frame captured (in the case of the spider mastermind, i think the legs were).

the death animations for the doom md2 models have different vertices because they are different models. because of the way some of the monsters die (like the mancubus or cacodemon), there are extra pieces that appear only during death.

you'd have to make two seperate quake mdls, one for normal and one for death and in the qc, actually swap from the normal to death models before playing the animation. 
the imp squeezes bloodtraces, that is one with an extra mdl, causing a higher vertice count.
But in quake there is also a way for bloodtraces? 
Those Don't Look 
half-bad, actually.

The mastermind is a bit of weeny, tho. 
I Know 
but that is the texturing thing. The textures from doom are rather flat. And it takes quiet some time to do that better in Wally.

For sofar I am only interested if I can make them excist in Quake.
And giving them a reasonable subroutine.

Or playing x time the Imp map, and half the time
they become solid and won't die!
They just won't DIE, DIE ! Stupid IMPorted actor. 
You are a genius. Seriously. I haven't got a clue what you meant, but fuck me did you mean it!


They look fucking perfect! 
One Thing

I think the spider-mastermind is bigger :) 
It's The Little One From Doom2, Guys 
you have played it, right?

Here's a nifty retro-article about Quake's then-ongoing development, written for Wired, by Marc Laidlaw: 
It's just a bunch of model property nonsense.
I think it's the perspective vieuw that mislead your scale measure.

Now I/m just playing Doom again to see how they realy were. 
Travail Interview For Those Who Are Interested 
Oh nice interview, very detailed. You guys remembered my early involvement - yay! You know I had a big scrap left over for Trevail, it was just 2 large rooms, and one huge 3 tiered outdoor section. I should have donated it to Trevail!!! Maybe I'll still use it if I make another map one day. Here's some screenies:

So, you guys gonna do a Trevail sequel? :D I don't mind waiting another 5 years. 
According to the distrans booth, "There is some hope that I will release dis_sp2: Grendel's Keep,
a prequel to Travail, sometime during QExpo2008." 
Baker: Nice interview, good job. Font choice and toilet paper backdrop make it awkward to read, though.

Kona: The shots look awesome. Hope you do finish those scraps some time, or alternatively release them for other people to do. Maybe there's going to be a Travail addon... I have a fitting scrap, too. 
That's way too hard to read in that font / size. 
release that map please :) 
nice, solid screenshots up on your booth, man :) shame about the release date, but i'm sure it's worth the extra time. :) 
Grendel's Keep 
The second screenie looks like something from Doom. The skybox definitely helps :)

I might want to play that when it's finished. 
Sagdoll Mod 
looks pretty cool:

I'll have to try it when I get home. 
Its About Time 
actually im really surprised someone didn't do it sooner.

Looks like it needs some work, but as the guy is basicly pioneering this tech on the Quake engine I can let him off :)

From a mapping perspective, it would be quite exciting to get a full physics engine to work with in Quake, you could create some really cool traps and puzzle elements with it! 
we could have that seesaw puzzle! and that puzzle where you cut a rope and a thing swings and hits another thing! The physics puzzles are endless!

A real draw bridge would be neat. 
So it turns off gibbing in favour of painting the level with big blood.

Looks a bit like gameplay following technology so far, but it looks to be early days. 

Anyone played it ? The shambler referee is just too cool :P

This sounds great: Wouldn't this be a cool centrepiece gimmick for a REAL singleplayer map? i.e. you are roaming some base map and come across this ring where captured monsters are being made to fight. 
you already get to watch infighting in quake except you're still a participant in the action. I've never liked singleplayer ideas that start with "wouldn't it be neat if we made this thing and made the player look at it" 
Check out lurker's "QuakeBuilder". That's gotta help a lot with map tweaking, setting up entities etc once .map or .ent dumping works. Awesome! 
Holy Suffering Fuck 
That's impressive.

Why hadn't it already been done? 
Love It :) 
I hope its possible to save your entity changes to the bsp and/or to a .map file.

Would speed up creating & modifying gameplay scenarios a whole lot! :) In fact, its totally fucking awesome! 
From The Readme 
QuakeBuilder 0.1 (somewhere between alpha and beta)

important binds:
impulse 20 -- menu
impulse 18 -- alternate showscores

optional bind:
impulse 215 -- (incomplete) dump entities for .map file

please note:
coop mode only supports 2 players. Please set maxplayers to 2 if playing cooperatively.

This is a work in progress and so not everything works properly all of the time. Buttons and sometimes doors don't properly delete, sometimes players in coop can't enter selection mode, entity dumping is incomplete, 2 planned play modes are missing, and some entities can't be placed yet. Also, the menus grow as the project expands, so the Other Options menu especially could use a reorganization.

I looked at it this way: possibly some people will find it fun just to mess around with the stock id maps in limited sessions and won't be overly concerned if they can't place a trigger_multiple, trigger_teleport, or set up a spikeshooter logic gate. Why not let people have some fun with an incomplete version?

Also, this project was started during QuakeExpo 08 so I thought it should have some manner of release during same.

incognoscente yahoo com

So I guess ent dumping to .map file is possible, but is perhaps buggy in this version. Its still fucking awesome :) 
In A Similar Vein 
in Deus Ex 2, there is a basement area of a seedy bar where cockfights featuring a mutated chicken strain (forget their names but they are in Deus Ex as well) occur. Areas like that can add atmosphere to a game. 
Thanks for spreading the word!

Currently all* monsters, path_corners, and items (save for possibly Sigils/Runes) should export. trigger_counters (though no other triggers) should dump properly, though it was a late addition and I think I forgot to try compiling a map with a dumped trigger_counter to make sure I wasn't accidentally creating concave brushes.

*Unfortunately, only entities of the current skill setting can be dumped by QuakeBuilder as the engine culls the others. One of my goals for the future is to create a fake spawnflags/skill settings option for map authors to get around this limitation for their testing and exporting.

While it might not be of much interest to full-time level designers, one of my other goals is to create a system whereby a player can edit a map and export a plug-in script that they can play later (think .way files for FrikBots). Basically, map remixes on a small scale. Then, if the player chooses, they could play an entire game of Quake full of their remixed configurations without being placed into edit mode each time. Or they could share their configurations with their friends.

First up is a short break for me since I've been working on QuakeBuilder almost endlessly for the past 4 weeks (weekdays and weekends). :) 
Wired Interview 
Thanks for posting that, Lunaran. It was an enjoyable read. 
QuakeBuilder looks fucking awesome. Great work, keep on it!

Perhaps now we could make a map... then make Shambler do to monster placement so he can claim to finally have credit on the creation of a map :) 
QE08 - Great Event, Probably The Most Successful One Ever? 
- So many map releases! and all of them were good.
- Four speedmapping sessions! and people (more/different ones than usual) even participated. Only from Func_, though.
- Fun little speedmods.
- Numerous interviews, conducted by Spirit and others, provided interesting read.
- AOP touched up and bug-fixed! I always thought this was a good mission pack after all, despite a few neglectable shortcomings here and there, especially concerning the original release date. Though in my view the new lighting is a bit bland in many places.
- Quite a few promising maps in the works. And omg, Kona (or was it Tronyn? or both?) and Worch having a stab at Q1SP mapping again!
- Krimzon's racing game looks fun.
- The Q1/DP fantasy TCs and independent games look interesting. We'll see what comes out it
- The Q2 engine ports got me back into playing Q2SP. I didn't like Berzerker very much, because it made the game look too comicy, but Q2XP rocks. It has subtle, yet nice graphical enhancements and speeds up gameplay considerably - so it almost feels like Quake. I started playing Ground Zero (for the first time) with it, but have lost interest again, not least because it's another MP obviously Rogue'd.
- Undeniable star of this QExpo is Arcade Quake. Despite a few niggles, it's a very cool TC - the E1M1ish map looks awesome. I've had sound issues, though. Also impressive how DP manages to have a lower-than-necessary framerate in such a simple (2.5D) map/perspective. I'll be defnitely keeping track of this one.

I didn't care so much for the Alien Arena/Warsow/Nexuiz booths, but it was good they were there. Also nice to have people post some tutorials.

At first, news coverage was poor, almost non-existant actually. Fortunately, a few people stepped into this gap after a while. The 'booth updates' page was very helpful in this respect.
The 'events' went by rather unnoticed, better coverage would have helped.

By and large a very enjoyable event. I wish more people had cared about it and pimped it in various communities and fagtions. Still, thanks to Jehar et al and everyone involved in one way or another. Now Quake can finally die in peace. 
Wait So.. 
you build the map, and then run around it to place the stuff?!? 
Negke: great recap until:

Now Quake can finally die in peace.

Quake will swallow us all. 
@ #232 
...yes :) 
I don't think it is over regarding Quaddicted status Spirit did there:
There are at least 6 mappers that are preparing something yet... and I hope more will come later on ;) 
So Am I 
and I told him so in my interview. :( 
It's A News Post 
Don't tell me you expect anything true and meaningful from the news!

PS: It was a qexpo booths digest, nothing more. 
Has there been any updates from worch kona tronyn.... or tyrann? 
was nice, what I remember most is meeting all those people. I'm a newcomer, so it was like "oh wowzers, they are talking to me" :-P My Quake network just got a lot bigger.

Also for the RMQ project, it was probably the right decision to make booths, because a couple of people joined the boat. No mappers though ^^

Anyway, it was remarkable. Also remarkable was the absence of the online gaming communities, both NQ and QW, Q1 engine coders, most model and texture artists, and a large part of the veteran mappers. We could easily have reached 100 booths, but many people just didn't care.

And that's another interesting piece of insight to be gained from QE08. There are "camps" in Quake, but they look quite different from the "camps" of legend. That much I have learned.

The camp I was part of during QExpo was talkative, open minded, and looking towards the future. It contained people from Q1, Q2, Q3, Nexuiz, mappers, modders, engine coders, modellers, and players. It was quite an eye opener.

I think that not only there will be Quake maps, mods and engines 10 years from now, and people who play them, I actually think they will be breathtaking.

Lurker outstanding!!! 
No mappers though ^^

alright then,
I'll keep mapping while I'm boothing...uh
keep boothing while I'm mapping 
Alien Rhinoceros 
is updating the pag�ez. 
Spammer! You killed my father. Prepare to die! 
The Spam Just Makes Me Sad 
because I keep wishing a qexpo is coming up. 
It Killed Its Hexies! 
I offered my new map as contribute to the Q14Expo, not to that rinocering alien! 
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