The information for which you seek can be found at the very top of the screenshots and betas threads! ;)
Thanks for the quick response, RickyT23.
Ok, so the main purpose of this post is to ask for help from anyone willing to beta test and provide me with feedback on anything and everything they wish to tell me. Bugs, Feature Addition/Removal, Pros & Cons, Hardware compatibility, etc...
And, of course the other purpose is to give a little something back to a community that has provided me with so much for free.
Now, for a little bit of a description...
The software is based on eerie's http://eerie.anarxi.st/qe3/build.2007.09.05/
QE3.1 which is in turn based off of id's QE4. Most features are inspired or taken directly (with modifications for compatibility) from both Q3Radiant and QE5 by M. Milley http://www.yossman.net/~mmilley/qe5/
so much thanks and respect go Mr. Milley, Robert Duffy and anyone else at id who worked on the editors.
This originally started as a quest by me to find the original QuakeEd. I had wanted to start mapping for Quake again after a long break and within that time I had become accustomed to the Radiant style of editing. So Worldcraft, wasn't an option, BSP is a very nice editor but was just a bit different (even though it is almost 100% customizable) for my liking, and GTK Radiant, sadly, does not work on my laptop (a SiS chip).
So, finally I found both QE3 and QE5. Just what I was looking for but they were lacking features found in Radiant that I felt were essential.
I didn't think to start adding those features myself. I didn't think I had the ability. My C/C++ knowledge is very limited, only having read a few books on my own and that's its, so all I was going to do was change the icon. Then going through the code and finding that I understood some things, at least the Windows side of it, so I started messing around with things. Long story short...
This is Windows only (unless it will run under WinE or other emulators).
It comes with the current source and the original QE3 source by eerie along with most of the popular compile tools, conversion tools, entity definition files, and standard wad files. The only thing that needs to be done is to edit the "quake.qc" to match the directory paths you use.
Also, my internet access is limited, I tend to be gone for days, even weeks at a time so any replies or emails will be responded to when I get the chance. I'll try to provide more info or maybe a proper readme as soon as I can.
Thanks again, in advance.
Get the file here:
Immediate Error On Startup
After extraction, qe3.exe and instantly got an error saying:
"Could not load C:\Games\Quake\tools\/gfx/palette.lmp
GetLastError() = 3
So from the looks of it, I have to create a new directory just for the quake palette to run the editor? Seems a bit unnecessary. But maybe its just a bug.
I'm running Vista 32-bit.
I get the same error.
I don't like that this looks like it wants to be extracted into my base /quake/ dir. I have a lot of other shit cluttering up that folder already and it'd be nice if it were self-contained. It also looks like it wants my base quake dir to be c:/games/quake/ :)
In The Meantime
I've created c:/games/quake/tools/gfx/ and put palette.lmp in there, just to be diplomatic.
Impressions as I goof around in the program:
- The windows snap to each other. That is sexy. My hopes are already high.
- Loaded lundm1.map ... it looks like radiant, only minus GTK! ... I just blew a hole in the front of my pants.
- It didn't load the wad from my worldspawn ent. in fact, it seems to only look for wads in /gfx/. Okay, I'll put the wad in myquake/gfx/ and hit 'update texture list.'
- oh, now it's empty. where on earth is it looking? let's dick around in the project file.
- ah, you change c:/games/quake/tools/ HERE. A first-run dialog box that lets me set all that stuff before the program crashes out because it can't find anything, or at least some mention that I have to edit that file would be shibby.
- okay, let's edit this thing up and see how it works now. Got my texture wads path pointing to /id1/ where all the wads are ...
- the wads show up in the list but I can't load any of them, and the map is still checkered.
Okay, I think mainly the first thing I'd suggest is ripping out the project file thing completely and just going with proper preferences. I was surprised those kludgy projects persisted as long as they did in the GTKRadiant trunk. Worldcraft's preferences and compile dialog always beat radiant hands down.
Otherwise ... this feels just like radiant. I think this may have already become my new default editor. Nice work, man.
at least some mention that I have to edit that file - I will state for the record that yes, I finally noticed that he did in fact mention that.
it doesn't seem as if he's watching this thread now, though. I should email him. I woke up late last night, grabbed a drink, passed by the computer, and had to stop myself from poking too deeply into the source lest I be up until morning writing things.
is there a way to get more than just one editor window open at once? i hate having to cycle through views to get front, side, back.
at least in d3edit you can open up all 3 windows and manually place them, but here the menu command just switches the one window instead of opening up a new one.
at work so I can't check but isn't there a layout option in the prefs? radiant has it but I'm not sure if this qed does. I think the top/zchecker/camera was the only mode qed had.
either way, if you learn to map with top/zchecker/camera you won't go back. Having two side views seems kind of redundant to me now. I do a retarded amount of brushwork in the camera view.
Me too. I generally done everything done in top-down and camera view. I only use side views if I need a good look at what's going on there.
I use 4-view (including 3d preview)... but that's how i use max too, but often just use 3d view, it really depends on what i'm doing.
Anyhow, call me crazy.. but i think adding something like TF2 support would make you a god amongst men. Who knows, may even attract the ladies.
I'm yet to try this out for myself, would like to have preferences and stuff like the simple hardcoded paths fixed up so i can put it where-ever i like and same with my quake. Things i want to keep NEVER go on C drive. That is reserved for the almighty windows that could explode at any moment.
They Aren't Hard Coded
you have to edit the quake.qe3 file in the /scripts directory to point to the correct locations (ie: where you copied qe3)
The Windows Are
there's an "xy.c" and a "z.c" in the source, so, looks like those windows are so your only option that the code is actually named after it.
i meant about the gfx and pallete.lmp things.
really too bad about the one editor window at a time thing though. with the two qonquer maps out recently, i was going to try something out in qe3, but only having 1 editor window slows down the mapping process so much.
in that case, what Willem said. :\
Thanks, everyone, for the replies. This is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. I little things that are overlooked and not thought of because I know how it works internally. I'll go through the comments in order and give help where needed.
As a note: My setup is "Quake/tools/qe3.exe"
Also, keep in mind that the code is C-based, using the Windows SDK, and does not use MFC so things that you might like that are in Q3/GTKRadiant will be difficult or not possible (at least for me) to implement.
Orl: Yes, the palette location is hard coded to "location of qe3.exe/gfx". That's how id's QE2 & QE4 were and remains untouched for now. I'm guessing you just extracted the exe instead of everything. I guess I might as well put a new item in the project file for palette location that way people can have their wads and palette wherever they want.
Lunaran: One thing that I wondered but never bothered checking myself was whether wads HAD to be in /gfx in order to load from worldspawn. I'm pretty sure that whatever folder "texturepath" is it should load wads from it (not necessarily /gfx), but multiple locations I don't think so.
There is a run-first dialog if the quake.qe3 is not found. Maybe I should have left it out of the package. I assumed that most mappers here would be familiar with how QE4/QER/Q3R handles paths. My mistake. I don't know how GTK 1.5 does it.
Also goto "File/Edit Project" to edit the project file within the editor.
I don't know enough about how you have all the paths setup to know why your textures won't load. Sorry.
Necros: Only one XY window for now. That's how QE4 is. TAB cycles views though, of course. I personally prefer just one as 1) less cpu usage 2) larger view making it easier to edit. But since I'm doing this more for the public then for myself now, I will make it a priority to implement.
Electro: What exactly would be needed for TF2 support? I haven't done any editing for Source so I don't know what is different about the map file format. But since Valve has everything packaged together in the SDK it makes sense to just use Hammer.
Again, thanks for everyone's interest and I'm sorry there are problems for some. This is still very much a beta and I consider this release just for testing purposes. When I release this "officially" I plan to have a proper readme explaining everything needed for installation and setup and a manual, which if anyone would like to help with that, I'd be indebted.
I'll be online until tomorrow night (7/3/08) so, if you have questions that need a prompt answer...
If I can get this compiling, do you accept code contributions? :D
Of course. You could release any changes/additions as your own editor if you'd like. This is completely open for anyone to do and release what they will. I know the GPL stipulates that it has to be that way, I'm just saying that it wouldn't bother me if anyone did. Although, for the community's sake, it would probably be best to just have one QE3 to keep it simple and just add to that to make it better.
Anyways, you said "if". Is there a problem in compilation? It's a VC++6.0a project, if that helps any.
To everyone else: I have a bunch more commands that are ready to be inserted into the toolbar. My question is, would you want them added or would you rather have more screen space for editing? I prefer the later.
Also, if anyone is interested, I have a Q3Radiant exe that has free look, working camspeed slider, fixed Sphere command, and some other minor cosmetic changes.
The way the map file is laid out is a bit different, and i'm not sure what format their textures are in.. although i imagine it wouldn't be too much trouble to get them out as tga's for mapping for TF2 in this with.
Editing with hammer is just a real pain, radiants way of doing things is so much faster.
The .map files basically have the same data, just laid out differently, I don't have an example to show, but I made a box a while ago in TF2 that I can show you for how the formatting is.
Electro: Go ahead and send it to me. If you could, put some entities in there as well. Also if Hammer still uses FGD's or similar, send that as well. I'm not making any promises here, and I wouldn't even start on any other game compatibility until the Quake side is 100% complete and perfect. Do Source maps still use BSP/CSG/VIS/LIGHT compiling tools?
To Willem: Man, am I glad to find you here. How do you do your hollowing? How well does it work for oddly shaped brushes (e.g. cylinders, spheres, etc.)? Is it possible at all to have a look at your code? Pretty please.
My hollowing is basically making a brush and then making another smaller brush inside of it. I then subtract the small brush from the large brush and delete the small brush afterwards.
This works, of course, only as well as my CSG routines - which is barely. :)
Give me a few days to clean the code up and I'll see about providing a download. I have a few features that are half implemented which is what is preventing me from doing a new ToeTag version at the moment. I'll post in this thread when I have something worth downloading!
You know, I thought of doing that exact same thing. Unfortunately, when I tested it on non-cube brushes, it gave unfavorable results to where having overlapping brushes from normal hollowing was preferable.
I'm interested in trying your editor but I have no access to a Mac. I recently downloaded an emulator, though I haven't messed with it yet. Hopefully I can get it to work.
And, take your time with the code. It'll probably be a week or so until I'll be online again, so no rush.
Yes, it's not ideal but it basically works. When I get time I want to try some more optimal solutions. Hollowing is generally done on box brushes 95% of the time so it seems good enough for now.
Anyone hollowing a sphere in the Quake engine is asking for pain anyway. :)
I've got a hollow sphere prefab which I made. are there aany edtors which can make a sphere? had to make mine using czg's curve tutorial!!!
I haven't added one to ToeTag at this point because generally spheres cause tears. :)
QE3 (link above) can create spheres.
SPHERES DO NOT BELONG IN QUAKE
Is there a problem in compilation? It's a VC++6.0a project, if that helps any.
No, I know, but getting code to compile is one of those things that magically causes endless problems only for me. I spent most of a weekend trying to get q3map2 to compile, and after spending most of that time trying every incremental version of pnglib I could find for the particular 0.001 level version that ttimo has on his hard drive that actually fucking works I had grown so furious I went outside and killed a family of squirrels.
Anyway, I'd rather contribute code to you and keep the editor centralized than split off my own editor.
Complete source map file specs:
WHAT ABOUT ONES WITH 16 SIDES?
Heh - thats sounds bad - a 72 sided one?!! That's what fucked me up last time :P
Whats Wrong With Spheres?
I mean, I can't think of any practical use for spheres in maps, but why not?
QBSP bleeds tears of blood when you feed it spheres.
I made a bowl once (32 total sides), with some slime and a spiked corpse in the middle and couldn't get it to compile with wandering vertex syndrome, which caused crap in vis.
You Can Get Away With A "corner"
or 1 8th of a sphere. Done that loads of times!!
You can have func_illusionary spheres, even func_wall spheres.
Also I can't see Quake having any problems with a 16 sided sphere. But you can't really call that a sphere, can you.....
16 is possible, 72 is not. I really wouldn't use anything above 12, though something like 28 sides is the limit before it crashes (which reminds me, I need to put in a check so it won't craash).
I Just Compiled A Map
for the sake of experimentation which had 62 faces. It was a sphere with 62 faces!!! Compiled fully no probs!
Still, It gets messy when you start to add other stuff around it.
I mean using AguirRe's tools you can compile maps for Q1 with LOADS of curves. But you dont have to stick many in before vis takes 10 years....
That's the only problem I see with it!
What Use Is A Sphere?
Where is a Sphere's place in a world of Crates? What can the lowly Sphere do that a Crate cannot do more effeciently?
Harken to me, my brothers. Let us not be taken from our holy traditions, lest we be driven mad by our temptations of substance over style. Our lord God created the world in 6 days, it is no coincidence the mighty Crate is 6 sides!
CZG's Helix - the one with the disclaimer on the tutorial.
I layered helix' to make a smoother surface and it worked, a nice curving helix, but as soon as more stuff was added the geometry started going nuts - a brush added or removed and the helix would transform one of its brushes into a spike, or remove some of its faces.
"Still, It gets messy when you start to add other stuff around it. "
Well, that's really the crux of the issue now isn't it? :)
I once made a map that was just a sphere with nothing else around it and it compiled fine
Made a map that was a load of balls.
I'll be gone for a while, hoping to be back in a week or so. Please continue to post or email any bugs/problems encountered and/or things you would like to see added. This is just a hobby for me but I'll do my best to update as quickly as possible.
And thanks again for those who are showing interest. Any and all feedback is appreciated.
When you get back, here's a download link to grab the latest version of ToeTag AND the source code:
Another New Old Editor Resurrected
Wow, Tread! Cool to see new Quake stuff being developed...
One thing I'll critique - that's a sucky texture browser. Lots of wasted space there.
Ogier's texture browser any day.
Worldcraft has a nice one. You can look at them both in original size or forced to a certain size, there's an instant filter by name command too as well as the "all textures" and "used ones" and you can have all wads in the same list. And you can alter the brightness at which they are shown.
ToeTags sorts them by width/height and then packs them together as closely as it can so you can get the most on screen as possible. It has a name filter, an "in use" filter, and a zoom control. No brightness though. That's a cool feature idea...
The WC Texture Brightness
applies to the 3d textured view too. Also alphabetical texture ordering has some advantages in some cases, so it could be a nice option to have.
On The Subject Of Old Editors
anyone remember Deathmatch Maker for Quake? I cannot believe that was a commercial product. Wins the award for the most inept level editor ever devised. The grid was in units of ten ffs (with no option to change), and it didn't even have a working texture browser, you just had to go by the names of the textures if I recall.
The icing on the cake was that it shipped with the tagline "The only level editor authorised by id software". What the christ.
I still use TexMex - does the job as long as I don't provoke it's tantrums by using the detail view.
The grid was in units of ten ffs (with no option to change)
dear lord. that sounds terrible!
qED was my first editor (from the guys that made QME).. that was pretty poor. no clipping or vertex editing, no clone function (unless you manually copy & paste), the skew function was shabby and inaccurate and it was nigh on impossible to select in the 3d view. plus it had a habit of messing up verticies when you tried to import any non-basic brushes in via a .map file
I believe QMD summarized my views on that editor quite nicely...
What I think would make handling large amounts of textures easier are tags. Since meta information isn't possible in the file formats (at least I'm pretty sure they aren't flexible enough to support them) you'd need to save that in an additional file but if the editor supported adding and removing tags it should be able to work pretty smooth.
The editor could automatically assign "width" and "height" tags and then the user could add whatever they want such as thematic ones ("base", "medieval"...", material ("stone", "wood"...), type ("trim", "wall", "floor", "light") and so on.
Then you could use these tags (and partial name matches too) with different logical combination for some very powerful filtering cababilities :)
would be to be able to share your tags with others in some way. There's no use in everyone tagging the same textures with the same tags - it would be cool if texture packages came with tags already.
you could do an online database but you'd need to keep be able to handle same texture names in different places and different versions of textures and so on.
I think what I was originally visioning was something simple (for quake anyway) like "wadname.tags" in the same directory as the .wad so if you put a .wad up for dl you could provide a .tags file along with the .wad
I was hoping to come back to some more feedback on bugs/feature requests, but I guess there may not be much interest in this editor or those who do want to help just haven't had the time, which is completely understandable.
Those who are interested in helping, I suggest contacting me through email to keep from bumping this thread.
Lunaran: If you still want to help code, let me know what you plan to do so I don't end up do something similar.
And thanks to all who gave it a try, I'll probably still upload new versions to Shub-Hub when I can.
Remember that the Quake1 mapping community is microscopic and those who remain already have editors that that know and love. You'll have to add some bad ass features to lure them away from the editors that they already know.
Really. I never learned to use Radiant so can't really help.
Don't be put off though, guaranteed that there's lots of people who know about your editor and use it, but won't post here.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not bitching or complaining nor am I expecting people to just drop their current editor for this. All I was looking for was some help. For a few people to just to try it out and post the pros/cons/bugs/whatever, and I figured if there is any one site to get that kind of help it would be here. I'm more surprised then anything, but I'm not bothered by the lack of interest nor will it deter me from continuing my work and releasing future versions. It'll just be an editor that will cater to my preferences and that's not what I was hoping for.
I'm Not Sure..
..if this has already been brought up, but does it have some kind of function where the user can determine their own shortcut keys for just about any command? and if not, how feasable would it be to implement it?
i'd be much more inclined to give it a proper go if i could tweak it to feel as close to worldcraft as possible!
I was going to just poke around and see what I could come up with. I have a hankering to move all settings to one .ini file and mirror them all in one preferences dialog. because I'm ANAL RETENTIVE.
Does It Have A Good
texture lock feature? Is there a button which will "fit" a texture to a face? If so I may well try it...
Like I Said Earlier,
it's nice, but not being able to have the traditional 4 window setup pretty much makes in unusable for me. :P
4 windows ? I have only 2 (top/bottom view, left/right side view), and it is IMHO largely enough to have a correct idea of the 3D stuff I'm doing..
Anyway, it is just a habit I guess... and don't tell me it explains why maps suck :P
sikkpin add the new ficture that Quark is adding... the real light in editor!!! but still suck a lot...
rj: Not yet. Right now it is all hardcoded but it is definitely on my TODO list. My plan was/is to implement text file usage as apposed to relying on the registry for saved settings and in turn have customizable keys. Mouse commands will remain hardcoded.
RickyT23: Yes, but I don't know what you mean by good. What editor has "bad" texture lock capabilities to compare with? Right now, it is either on or off for both Move & Rotation and behaves like Radiant as the code (the rotation part, I believe) was taken from it.
necros: It will happen, eventually. Even though you are a seasoned mapper and a damn good one at that, I highly recommend using just the one XY view with Z & Cam. I used to love the 4-view because of starting with WC until I learned Radiant and came to realize how much screen space is wasted on redundancy. And really hitting Tab to cycle views is not that much of a slow down as you might think.
eerie: I sent you an email some months ago (two emails, actually, because of a bug that was in the first one) and was wondering if you received them? If not, I had asked for your permission to release what I had been doing. I never heard back so I assumed you didn't care.
I hope it doesn't bother you at all and your name will be first in the Credits (well, second, id deserves first, really) when I write a proper readme.
Trinca: That's something I wanted to do from the beginning but unfortunately would require a good understanding of OGL which I don't have. You'd have to wait for either me to do a lot of reading or for someone with the knowledge to lend a hand. There is a rudimentary light radius view, though, with CamWindow support on the way.
has shitty texture lock features
sikkpin dont ask me :)
i just map and not very good...
sikkpin, last two or three months, my mailbox on anarxi was pointed to /dev/null because chinese spam-attack ;)
now it's work
I started this project for my own use and it's pleasure for me, that you continue development
(my english so bad, sorry ;)
i use 4 window setups on all the 3d applications i use.
the thing i dislike about 1 window editing is it is disorienting when you switch from one view to the next. also, having 2 views showing the side helps me to make sure of what i'm building. i can't stand that stupid z cam thing, i'd have to actually check #s on the grid that i'm on since it doesn't show any other brushes in relation to the current selection.
anyway... just saying this is what i like. :)
if i'm the only one here, then don't make it a priority since i'm not mapping much these days and i can always make do with gtkr 1.4 if need be
Your Not The Only One Necros ;)
I myself need 4 windows, aerial view, 2 side views, and the 3d window.
I was taught
first-angle projection. You probably don't even know what first-angle projection is. Which is perhaps the point.
I was also brilliant at it, and it's certainly contributed to the quality of my mapping.
You don't have to use a four window set-up if you don't want to. But I do want to. And it'd be me making my maps with your editor, not you making them.
This is not an ultimatum or a threat or anything, it's just a statement of fact. If you don't design your editor in a way that suits users, they won't use it.
I Actually Prefer 8 Windows...
...top, left, right, bottom, front, north, 3D, and one window that shows the future. I use the last window to figure out what year my map will be released.
.. is winning !
I use the last window to figure out what year my map will be released.
I guess that window must be blank then.
first-angle projection! I know that too. Even that standard is different in USA, where technical drawings have the rotations exactly reverse. :(
Theoretically, mapping with mostly only top view would direct to more 2D maps, ala Duke...
I realize when mapping with four views that one view is usually unused (usually either of the side views) when placing a brush but then needed so soon when putting the next one anyway. With the big screens nowadays it shouldn't be that much of a problem.
For example building stairs is so easy with the side views when you can see the relations at a glance.
One 3d View Should Be Enough!
The best way though is probably to let the user arrange views anyway they want(blender is a good example)...
It's really a matter of taste and editor being used. When I use GTKRadiant, I only ever use the 2-window setup (3d view and the other one I ctrl-Tab through). However when I use UnrealED, I always use the fullblown 4-viewport setup.
I'm Used To 4 Windows
But it's a question of screen size/rez, Try to map with 800x600 and 4 windows. Have fun.
I was taught first-angle projection. You probably don't even know what first-angle projection is. Which is perhaps the point.
I was also brilliant at it, and it's certainly contributed to the quality of my mapping.
show-off, but your maps are undoubtely of great quality.
A real pro needs only the coordinates everything else is in the mind. And with two views you have all coordinates
Hey I can do real time raytracing on a piece of paper^^
is when a frame takes less than, say, a second. You can do that?
But I got a new Samsung 22" at work, never get to use that for mapping. Only GIMP. Shame really cause I'd be able to map in 1650x1050 or whatever it was... :(
Who maps with dual displays?
...but I only use one 2-D view and the cam window . No Z.
It seems you should just be able to spawn whatever views you want. If you want a top and a side and two camera views, you can have it.
that seems like a good improvement.
Regarding The Views...
Multiple orthographic views is a definite but I'm not sure which route I'm going to take. Either one window of each view can be opened/closed by user choice (Q3Radiant) or any number of windows can be opened/closed and changed to any view (UnrealEd). Splitter window will NOT be implemented, they snap so that's good enough :)
And, Kell, you came across as a total ass. Maybe you should read through this thread before contributing, specifically post #58 & #66, which makes your post pointless.
Kell IS An Ass!
If you don't design your editor in a way that suits users, they won't use it
I couldn't continue to hate GTKRadiant if I didn't agree with this. However, you shouldn't turn your software into a carnival of preferences and options so everyone can retain their own little interface comfort bubble. There comes a point where every user just has to learn a new way of working.
And, Kell, you came across as a total ass.
What the fuck? Get over yourself.
Asking for feedback about your program, then saying "oh I'll just add what I think is good, really you should try it my way" makes you sound like a total ass.
My post was meant to point out that, sure, it's your editor and you can do what you like with it. If you're open to adding features that accommodate other peoples' preferences, then they will be interested. If you don't, you can't really be surprised if they show no interest. The number/type of views is a major difference in preferences. Perfectly valid point.
And if you choose not to accommodate other preferences, yet continue to solicit interest in a dedicated thread, it's really just attention seeking.
I have know idea where all this is coming from.
Please, show me where I said (not word for word, of course)"oh I'll just add what I think is good, really you should try it my way". Show me where I said that I'm not going to implement features that don't comply to my preference. Tell me, how do I need to "get over myself", how am I seeking attention? Please, show me anything that makes your posts valid.
Anyways, back on topic...
Lunaran: No, I won't let that happen. I want to keep it clean and efficient, to be able to do anything that other editors can do but keep that QuakeEd/Radiant style. If it doesn't make editing easier, than it won't be added, at least not by me.
Is This Just Me?
in gtkr and doomedit, i can use the mouse wheel to zoom in and out on the map view but i have to use insert/delete here... is that a problem on my end? if not, could you add that in? :)
Ctrl+RMB and move mouse up/down to zoom in/out, respectively. If you and others prefer the mouse wheel I could easily add it. I, myself, prefer the moving the mouse, as it enables you to zoom exactly where you want where as the mouse wheel is done in hard-coded increments. Hell, I'll add it anyway.
Also, in the "docs" directory there is a file called "Q3E-mousecmds.txt" that lists everything you can do with the mouse in each window. It's not very detailed but it should be easy enough to understand. Any questions, though, don't hesitate...
i just figured since gtkr, the d3edit version of qeradiant, hammer and 3dsmax all use mouse wheel to zoom. :)
to me, this kind of thing is all about speed and efficiency. you have to think that a mapper is going to be panning and zooming a lot, and that he shouldn't have to think about it. that means the less keys involved, the better.
keeping relevant controls all in the same spot is just good practice. right click + drag = pan and mouse wheel = zoom.
with the current method, you'd have to first pan with right click + drag, then press ctrl and use the same mouse button again and then drag again (at this point, your mouse may be off the mouse pad :P). with gtkr (and the others i mentioned), you can pan and zoom at the same time.
cheers, and good luck :)
Speed and efficiency is exactly what I'm going for and is the main reason I so detest WC/Hammer. The mouse wheel is a very unique and powerful tool that I plan to utilize for many tasks, zooming being one of them. For instance, maybe using it for nudging brushes or whatever else I think that would benefit from it.
Also, Doom3Edit uses Alt+Drag to zoom as well, so I'm considering changing to that instead of Ctrl+ for those who may be used to D3Edit and have Ctrl+ used for free rotating.
And, necros, I very much appreciate you giving QE3 a try and also for your feedback.
it's slow going though, so i'm eagerly awaiting the next version for multiple editor windows. ^_^
it *is* nice having an editor that's actually for quake, instead of having to use the gtkr 1.4 haxors and map converting.
and yeah, i agree, apart from mouse wheel zooming, WC is just a really slow way to go about doing anything. having to switch modes ALL the time just to perform basic tasks like entity creation and texture application is dumb beyond belief. the actual texture application method *is* really powerful, however. moreso than radiant style editors. there are methods to preserve texture alignement across rotating faces so doing trim along curved brushes is a simple matter, for example.
You say you use gtkr 1.4. Are you like me and disgusted by the direction they seem to be taking the editor? I finally had a chance to try 1.5 out a few weeks ago and was amazed by some of the useful features they have removed/changed. Vertex editing is now completely useless again like in QERadiant, they removed the Z-window and they seem to be moving more towards a 3D modeling interface/interaction. But, there are, of course, some nice additions to it. Oh well, at least idStudio appears to have kept the wonderful Z-Window :).
Which version of WC are you talking about, as someone above mentioned that 1.6 had terrible texture locking capabilities. But, yes, texture lock is something I need to perfect when it comes to complex, multiple axis rotations.
You say you use gtkr 1.4. Are you like me and disgusted by the direction they seem to be taking the editor?
/me jumps up and down waving
I am! Having tried to use maya for FPS interior stuff I can say the camera is a huge detriment. It's designed to pivot around things and look at them from the outside, but in a room or a hallway it's useless. QE/Radiant's camera is like a little FPS player you can drive around the inside of the level.
I admit I've done nothing with this code so far. :(
1.5 has almost nothing to do with id or the original devs, does it? It's (almost) entirely Spog doing it?
noname (i'm assuming sikkpin...):
yeah, gtkr effing 1.5 is stupid beyond belief. they completely changed the interface for (to me anyway) no apparent reason, and it definitely wasn't an upgrade.
gtkr 1.4 is the pinnacle of that particular editor.
also, when i was talking about WC, i actually meant Hammer (ie: WC 3.3 that valve uses for source). they fixed a lot of problems in hammer that were in wc 1.6.
lun: have you checked to see if there isn't a 'walkthrough' camera mode? 3dsmax has one, and esp. now that autodesk is doing maya, i'd be pretty surprised if there wasn't one.
Just tumble, track, and dolly. Maya is extensible enough that you could probably create a radiant-style walkthrough camera but it'd probably require API faffery, and I'm not up for that.
Am I the only one who actually prefers 1.5 to any of the previous versions?
That Is A Distinct Possibility
A Statistical Probability
A simple yes would have sufficed...
You'll be happy to know that I've got multiple orthographic views up and running. I just need to work on it a little more and iron out some of the kinks (dealing with clipping mostly) and I'll send you the .exe for testing if you like (or to anyone else who is interested).
There are some other changes as well, nothing major, like brushes can now be saved as floats in the .map file (users choice via Preferences) for more precision and I added more commands into the toolbar.
I'm hoping to finish tonight so I can have it ready for you sometime tomorrow. This won't be considered an actual release but just for testing the multiple XY windows.
If I get it done quickly enough, I'll try and put in mousewheel == zoom for you too.
sounds like good news!
you can use the email addy i have listed on here if you like. just let me know what to focus testing on. :)
Ok, it's been sent. As for what to test, whatever you want really. But, I guess mainly if the multiple views are working as they should and don't cause any crashes or anything.
And mousewheel zooming is in so enjoy. Later I'll make the zoom amount adjustable like GTKR.
If everything is working well and no bugs can be found, then there are just a few more things I need to do and then I can do an "official" release.
Thank you for you help ahead of time, and if you ever need someone to test a map, I'd be more than welcomed.
hook me up please! I need to start working on more than one map at a time, everybody tells me Radiant is good. I dont know the difference between one version and another. But I'm no programmer, so I con offer a little feedback and bug reports.
But let me get this straight:
1 - there can be 4 views: - top, side, side, 3D
2 - the mouse wheel moves the camera back and forth.... ?
Before you use the new .exe, delete the regisistry entries for the previous QuakeEd 3. Either open the old one and hit the "Reset Registry" button in Preferences or goto "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\id\" and delete "QuakeEd3" manually.
Sorry, I forgot to mention this sooner.
1 - Yes. The XY view still works as it always has where you can Tab through the the views(XY->XZ->YZ) but now you can open separate windows for XZ and YZ. All windows can be toggled on or off but the Camera & XY views won't be saved. Meaning if toggled off when you close the app, they will be toggled back on when you start again.
2 - As of right now with this test exe, the mousewheel zooms the XY/XZ/YZ/Z windows and drives the camera forward/backwards along the XY axis in the Camera window. Eventually I plan to do alot more with the mousewheel and to make the camera driving part like GTKRadiant where it moves the direction you are facing and not just forward/back along the XY axis
Do you have the previous release? I need to know whether to just send the exe or the entire package.
I Dont Have The Previous Package
Please send me everything.
You can email it to me, or whatever!
I have a project in very early stages, which will be an episode, so I will try a different editor for a map (!)(lol)
Obviously I have been using Worldcraft for all of my releases, so I am likely to draw comparisons. But I am in no real rush to complete this episode so maybe I will get used to the second program......
Just curious if you received the email
shit sorry man!
The program started up fine after I installed it, but I didnt get as far as setting it up (yet).
Sorry man - I've been hellish busy!
I'll get to it soon tho! ;P
No, don't apologize for anything. I was just making sure you got the email. I wasn't checking in to get feedback.
Problem With Texture Browser
I just can't get it to show any textures.Here is the console log:
By the way. Why can't I just copy text from the console?
In the project preferences dialog box the folder selection doesn't work for me. I have to enter the path's by hand.
are those directories correct? i set mine up to just go fetch the wads from the folder they're in when you install qe3.
my texture path in quake.qe3 is:
which shows up in the log as:
MSG: FoundFile: gfx/base.wad
MSG: FoundFile: gfx/common.wad
MSG: FoundFile: gfx/hipnotic.wad
MSG: FoundFile: gfx/IKBASE.WAD
MSG: FoundFile: gfx/medieval.wad
MSG: FoundFile: gfx/metal.wad
MSG: FoundFile: gfx/ne_doom.wad
MSG: FoundFile: gfx/ne_lend.wad
MSG: FoundFile: gfx/quake(extra).wad
MSG: FoundFile: gfx/quake.wad
MSG: FoundFile: gfx/rogue.wad
MSG: FoundFile: gfx/start.wad
MSG: FoundFile: gfx/wizard.wad
Thank you. My textures are loading :)
Well Mine Aren't
MSG: FoundFile: d:/games/quake/id1/q_all.wad
... etc ...
WARNING: Could not open d:/games/quake/id1/q_all.wad
In Reply To...
Where is your qe3.exe? Is it in "d:/games/quake" directory? If so, make the texture path just "id1/". As of right now, wads must be in a folder that is under the directory where your qe3 is placed and if you use the "Find" button, it'll setup the directory text correctly. This is a limitation from the original qe4 and something that will be fixed so you can place your wads anywhere you want before the official release.
Console Copy: You can copy text from the console. Use Ctrl+C. I guess I'll create a context menu for the console, as well, but the only thing it'll do is copy so I might not.
Project Settings: Really? What does it do exactly when you press it? What version of Windows are you running? Do the other "Find" buttons work in the "Preferences" Dialog?
Thanks for pitching in with the helping. Much appreciated. Also, I feel like I'm writing a master's thesis here replying to your emails. You'll probably get it in a month or so :). Let me just say real quick that they are all valid points but I hate you for bringing them up.
Edit In Above Post...
Ankh: You are right. You can't copy text in the console anymore. Sorry for that. It will be fixed.
it's a good editor-- i enjoy using it. :)
it makes the list relative to qe3.exe but loads it relative to the quake base dir, so if I want qe3 in its own folder, any wads I want to open have to be in both quake/qe3/gfx/ and quake/gfx/.
but if you're fixing it then yay
There also seems to be a limit to the number of WAD files it can cope with. I tried 'installing' all the wads on quaddicted and while they did display in the list, it refused to load anything past about F or G...
ALL THE WADS ON QUADDICTED?!?!?!?!
Dude there are fucking thousands of them.
it refused to load anything past about F or G...
What you mean it only loaded the first couple of hundred thousand? Gah! Yes, sikkpin had better fix that one. (not)
Firstly, there's slightly under a hundred WADs, less when you remove the duplicates (there's at least 2 different versions of each of sock's packs for instance). You did realise that there were duplicates right? I mean, you didn't just assume that different file names = different texture packs without working out what was in each pack... right?
Secondly, yes, when it's displaying the WAD name in the texture menu and I click it I would like it to then load the textures from that WAD. Seems fairly straight forward. I'm not trying to open every WAD at once, I just want to be able to have every WAD available without having to piss around moving files around. Apart from anything else it's counter productive when trying to decide a theme.
So yeh, probably would be a good idea to fix that...
OK Sarcasm Granted
It's a fair point. I thought you meant you wanted all of the textures loaded at the same time. Which would be insane because you wouldnt be able to find one. It'd be like looking for a needle in a haystack :P
I used 1 wad for e4m1rmx. And like two crate tex and a button.
That's one of the reasons why I don't use wc3.3 (laziness) ie. having to split my wads up into smaller units (less than 256 textures per wad). The other being the inability to adjust tex brightness - on a flatscreen in a fairly open area with a few windows that's a pain in the balls.
Lunaran: The wads should only need to be in qe3/gfx with the texture directory being gfx\. It looks like you have everything setup exactly how I do so I don't understand why it's not working correctly. I guess if you want to send me your *.qe3 file, maybe I can see something wrong in there. Other than that I don't know what could be causing your problem.
noentity: What does it say in the console? How many wads do you have exactly and how many will it load exactly? I have all the wads from quaddicted (filtered through them, of course) so I'll see if I can't get that bug to pop up. I'm guessing it's a hardcoded limit from id's original code. Hopefully it's just an integer value change that's needed.
Just A Warning
there's a bug that can mess up your map.
if you have multiple brushes, brush entities and/or point entities selected and move them and then undo, all entities will be converted to normal brushes.
for brush entities, they just become brushes, but point entities will also be converted to brushes (with respective bounding box size) which will mangle your .map file and prevent it from being loaded and compiled.
i sent you an email about this already sikk, but i just wanted to let people know so they don't loose their stuff. :)
In regard to what necros said, this is a know problem to me and it's also a bug in Q3R and early versions of GtkR. I have spent many hours trying to figure out a fix but so far haven't had any luck. If I'm unable to fix this then I will just do what Q3R does and prompt the user that there is a bad texdef for whatever face when the map is saved. In the mean time, just make sure you pay attention when you undo.
In regard to the wad loading limit. I just checked the source and yes there is a limit of 32 menu items that have an associated command to them. A simple fix. I just add more. The limit to how many wads can be loaded (shown in the menu) is 128. More than enough in my opinion. I don't know if I will add that many usable commands though. To me that's excessive and makes for a very long menu list. I may bump it to 64.
In my opinion, when mapping, I always go through my wads with Wally or TexMex and pull the textures I want to use and create a single wad for the map. To me it's just easier and cleaner that way. Plus, there is also a limit of how many characters can be in the "wad" string in the worldspawn. Which is one of the reasons why I use simply "gfx/whatever.wad" instead of "C:/Games/Quake/tools/gfx/whatever.wad" as it wastes a lot of unnecessary characters.
Things radiant has I miss:
- Ctrl-right-click as a shortcut for dropping clipping points without needing to toggle the mode.
- Ctrl-tab cycling the grid view as well as just tab.
- When click-dragging entities in radiant you don't actually have to click on an entity, you can just drag anywhere.
Also, I can't type certain capital letters like 'B', 'C', 'H', 'I', 'M', etc in the value box in the entity dialog because their functions capture the shift-keypress first.
i've been in emails with sikkpin over the past few weeks working on bugs and features and stuffs.
apparently, the original coding of radiant is pretty bad, so implementing new features without rewriting everything is long and annoying work.
i mentioned about Ctrl+RMB for clip points and this is one of those things. i'm still hoping we can work it in because i agree with you-- it's a big time saver. i absolutely *hate* editing "modes" which is why i've never liked WC or it's decendants.
i don't know what Ctrl+Tab did in radiant
As for moving objects... yes, i still prefer the old way of doing it like you're saying. sikkpin's implemented a new method which involves Alt+LMB which moves an object directly to where you clicked. it's a decent alternative that's almost as good as the old way. i'm still hoping for the old way though. :P
otoh, when you create objects now, they appear wherever your last moved brush/object was, so moving things over big distances aren't as common an occurrence now.
as for typing in capital letters (and copy/cut/pasting), those are fixed.
i think he just wants to finish up bug fixes before doing another official release.
Ooh Oh Ooh Oh Oooh
Ctrl-tab did what tab does, but I'm just learning to hit tab in the mean time.
Necros already said pretty much what I would have so no need to repeat. The quick drop clip point is of course something I would like to do but it requires a lot of work to implement. Pretty much everything dealing with brush manipulation, window/mouse handling, etc. would need to be rewritten to handle the clip point. As it is now, it's basically just: if it's in clipmode do this, if not do that, but when you remove the "mode" it makes handling the clipping very complex. Plus I already have Ctrl+RMB in use :)
Tab is way easier than Ctrl+Tab. Learn it. Love it. ;)
I'll look into implementing the way Radiant moves entities. The check is already there so it should be simple. For now though there is the Quick Move feature which works for both brushes and point entities.
Final note for anyone: Please, let me know if you want me to send you current releases. I'm not necessarily keeping this to myself because I don't want others to use it until I feel it's ready, I just don't want to have a bunch of useless files up on Shub, making things confusing.
What's Happening With Those Sausages Charlie
I'm rethinking not asking for current releases. (I'm also mapping.)
New Version Released...
Sorry to anyone who has been waiting patiently. I've been sitting on this for about two months waiting to here back from necros for the word that everything is working ok but it seems that real life has gotten a hold of him.
So, anyways, here it is. It's still a beta and probably always will be but it is stable and, in my opinion, surpasses GTKRadiant in functionality and efficiency, at least for Quake editing. Updates will probably be a less frequent from now on. There really isn't all that much more I want to do, and the things I want to do are a bit beyond my skill at the moment, but I will keep chiseling away at it as I still find it enjoyable. The link's below and cheers to anyone who downloads it.
For any questions, email me or post here. And remember to read the readme before using. Those with previous version will have to remove QE3 registry entry.
Click link below to start download...
tbh, i forgot all about the editor. o.o i haven't even mapped in the last month.
on the other hand, i don't recall there being anything that was really bothering me either.
grats on this though, lots of work went into it.
ttfn for the new download
sikkpin: I havent given up on the editor but im still finishing off the SAME map in WC. But a promise is a promise...
The only translation I could find on Google was "ta ta for now" :)
As Said By Tigger
from whinnie the poo
sikkpin put a pic of the project settings please... i cant start the Editor :\
i�m puting the directorys all wrong
I ran into this AGES ago, but I probably went on my holidays straight after, with a fractured pinky, and forgot all about you, sorry...
when I click the central button in the second picture, it CTD.
Important Note For Everyone...
Some people may run into a problem starting this if they downloaded it within the first day that I posted the update. I didn't realize it until later that evening that I left my project file (quake.qe3) in the archive which means unless you use the same path structure I use it won't be able to find the "palette.lmp" file and therefore exit. I uploaded a "fixed" zip the next day, with Spirit quickly removing the old one from Shub and replacing it with the new so the link would still work.
So if you are one of those people, either re-download it, or simple delete the "quake.qe3" file. The latter being the easiest.
For RickyT23 & Trinca: If the above applies to you two, delete said file and try again. A "Project Settings" dialog should popup allowing you to enter all necessary paths. I recommend that you use the "Find" buttons so the formating is correct.
If the above does NOT apply then...
Trinca: You can use the "default.qe3" to help you with formating though it is slightly outdated as the "texturepath" should no longer have a wad at the end, just the folder name, and it doesn't contain a "defaultwads" key (which is written like: "wad1.wad;wad2.wad;..."). I kept it in there mainly for all of the useful BSP commands.
Or, if you let me know where you have it installed, I can fill out all the info for you here and you can just copy/paste.
RickyT23: If your "qe3.exe" file is located in your "...Id1/maps" dir (based on the pics), then your "Texture Directory" should be written like "gfx/" and the "palette.lmp" file should be put in there.
I'm assuming that the above applies to you both so I hope that your problems will be solved. I apologize for an inconvenience, you don't know how pissed I was at myself for leaving that file in there. If you still have problems I'll try and check back as regularly as possible to assist. Thank you for trying it out.
ok, thks i will try when i get home!
When You Start It
make sure you check out the 'window' menu on the far right side. it has many presets for different window layouts to help make you comfortable. :)
Tooltips Or Something?!
What's a Project Directory?
What's a Remote Basepath!?
Also, setting a Texture Directory only kept the last 3 characters of the location I selected via the dialog box.
Putting in stuff to hopefully get around this and try the editor now though. Just calling shit as I see it.
Could not load D:\Quake\qe3\maps/d:\quake\id1\textures\palette.lmp
GetLastError() = 123
Used default as a base (copy/pasted it, renamed to quake.qe3) and manually edited the paths and it worked.
Some first impressions:
- I miss texture move lock toggle via shift+T (gtkradiant also has texture rotate lock as shift+R)
- I have 2 monitors, and want my texture window on my secondary monitor, but it's currently clamped to my primary display.
- A way to change the display of the scale of the textures in the texture window.
General note: escape to close dialogs = win
I keep hitting ESCAPE wanting to get the textures window out of my face but I have to find T instead.
Is there a scroll bar for the texture window that I'm not seeing? Would be really handy instead of having to use mousewheel to scroll through all the textures to get to the lower ones.
For actual editing from what I've seen so far seems nice though.
*begs for tf2 support* ;)
Having this though, I'm getting the urge to make a Quake map again hehe :D
can anyone post a screen of this all filled out?
that�s my problem... ;) at me moment of course...
Yeah those menus are broken, have to edit the file manually.
Or at least I wasn't able to get that menu to work.
This worked for me:
Directory structure: D:\Quake\Quake\qe3\
All the contents of the package are extracted to qe3.
I must say the setup is very unintuitive. How can a first time user know what is meant by remote basepath etc?
And if you set it up wrongly then the program won't even start next time but close with a message about missing palette file.
After getting through the setup problems it starts too look very fine though. Still lack of documentation is a big problem but at least a command list can be found in Help menu.
To get the bsp menu working I have just copied this text at the bottom of quake.qe3 file in the scripts directory.
"bsp_NoVis" "!qbsp $"
"bsp_Entities" "!qbsp -onlyents $"
"bsp_Relight" "!qbsp -onlyents $ && !light $"
"bsp_FullVis (light -maxlt -extra4)" "!qbsp $ && !vis $ && !light -maxlight 1 -extra4 $"
"bsp_FullVis (light -extra4)" "!qbsp $ && !vis $ && !light -extra4"
"bsp_FullVis (no light)" "!qbsp $ && !vis $"
"bsp_FullVis (nowater)" "!qbsp -solid $ && !vis $ && !light $"
"bsp_FullVis" "!qbsp $ && !vis $ && !light $"
"bsp_FastVis (nowater)" "!qbsp -solid $ && !vis -fast $ && !light $"
"bsp_FastVis" "!qbsp $ && !vis -fast $ && !light $"
Please Make Noobler Friendly
Some editor needs to beat the existing editors in noobster friendliness.
You have every advantage, including that it is the only open source editor made by someone who "gets" mapping.
(Where as Worldcraft isn't open source and will be stuck in 2002 from now 'til doomsday and the other editors seem to not be very learnable).
As a general rule of thumb, you should be able to compile upon startup after loading a map without doing any settings. Default them to something a dumb user can easily comply with (i.e., decide what their Quake directory is .. don't ask them, etc.).
Remember, new users are always "dumb" because they have no experience. If you can satisfy the dumb user, you will as a bonus satisfy the user who is worried that they might discover they fall in the dumb group.
User noobster friendliness makes everyone happy. The advanced user will understand how to customize, and newbster can fumble around and start posting in the mapping help thread when his map won't compile because it doesn't have an info_player_start.
What I did with ToeTag was to eliminate configuration options. I supply your compiling tools and everything else that you need to make a level. All that I require from you is for you to tell me where your Quake directory is. Once you do that, you're good to go!
Hows the texure lock - during - rotations thingy going?
(or isnt it?)
Ankh thks i will try tonight!!!
Not so much. I have basic locking on drags (that works most of the time) but nothing for rotations. My math skills are so badly lacking that I haven't the first clue of how to even begin there.
It's on my list but it's probably one of those features that will never actually materialize.
"Hows the texure lock - during - rotations thingy going?"
My understanding from talking with a Half-Life mapping expert (Scrama) is that the standard .map format can't easily support texture rotation.
That's why in WC3.3/Hammer .map 220 format, they added some extra fields.
That Kinda Explained Why
the Worldcraft 1.6/a version was very "temperamental" .....
I don't think the user should be limited like that. It might good for beginners not to be swamped with lots of options, but advanced users usually want to tweak the editor to their liking. So basic->advanced options tabs would probably be a better solution.
The editor does not run on operating systems where people actually make choices themselves.
I've considered an "Advanced" button on the preferences dialog but since, maybe, 3 people are using the editor it really hasn't gotten near the top of my task list.
There is some validity in wanting to use custom tools for compiling and such but it's never been an issue for me personally so I've been slow to accommodate it.
Yes, you are correct. The Mac is not for anal retentive control freaks.
The editor is great.
I have some questions though.
Is there a possibility of grouping brushes like in Worldcraft?
Also there are no visgroups right?
Ankh: No visgroups yet. It is definitely planned for the next release. When that will be, I have no idea.
"What's a Project Directory?"
"What's a Remote Basepath!?"
Look in the "default.qe3" file for id's short description. The "Remote Basepath" is a legacy left over. It is used for assets that reside on a network server machine. I probably could have removed it but I think I left it in there for a reason, but I don't have the the code with me at the moment to tell you why. For now just set it the same as the "Project Directory"
"...Texture Directory only kept the last 3 characters ..."
This is from using the "Find" button, correct? I have never run into this problem so I don't really know what's happening here. Is the problem consistent?
"...texture move lock toggle via shift+T..."
Whenever I fix a bug that will enable the use of the "Shift" key for shortcuts this can be done. For now, Texture Lock locks for both move and rotate but eventually I'll split the two as unique commands.
"...texture window on my secondary monitor..."
This is not working because the Window Snapping feature doesn't handle anything but the primary display. I'll look into adapting it to handle multiple displays.
"...change the display of the scale of the textures..."
Ctrl+RMB+Drag. Look in the "QE3-mousecmds.txt" file in the "/docs" directory.
"...escape to close dialogs = win..."
Since "Escape" is used to deselect a brush, this can't happen because eventually the "Entity/Texture/Console", "Surface Inspector" and some other windows will be changed to be able to remain "on top" while editing.
"Is there a scroll bar for the texture window..."
RMB+Drag. Again, refer to "QE3-mousecmds.txt".
"...those menus are broken..."
How are they broken? What are they not doing correctly? They work fine for me.
I see now that I should have at least written a description about the Project Settings dialog. It was never my intention to design anything "noob friendly". I'm not trying to make an editor to please the masses or to get people who have never mapped before to start mapping, I just wanted to design an editor that I wanted to use. Hell, it's been almost a year and I still haven't been able to map yet. :). I do recognize my fault in not supplying proper setup documentation (what I wrote in the readme I though would suffice) but the setup will remain the way it is.
Is development still happening on this project?
I'm looking for a new Q1 editor to try out, as QuArK has been completely buggy shit for me, unfortunately. Constant errors doing the most basic things, and hell with textures. I love QuArK's grouping of map items, that just rocks. So easy to hide various areas of the map, or make them visible but unclickable and so on. But it is just too buggy for me to use.
This after giving up on GtkRadiant learning that it is incapable of doing Q1-style shapred brushes (spheres, cylinders, etc.) as it only handles Q3-style meshes. Lame.
I miss the days of using Qoole in the 90s, as it "just worked" almost always, and was really easy to use.
Try Worldcraft 3.3 And The Quakeadapter
thats what I use :)
i don't think sikkpin is working on this anymore. shame as there are a few minor but annoying bugs, but it's an excellent editor and i recommend it over gtkr.
I don't think I've ever used WorldCraft, as at the time it was popular I was already using Qoole and liking it. I went and looked for WorldCraft a few days ago, and found that it stopped development a few years ago, bought out by Valve. How "complete" is it? I'll go try to find 3.3 to download, thanks.
I also found a Qoole download, and while it has a bug with rotating objects allowing leaks, I can easily work around it. I'll see if it's as good as I remember it being from the 90s! :-P
Well, I have downloaded it and will give it a try. Qoole also used the one-2D/one-3D/one-texture layout, and I got really accustomed to it, and prefer it to the three-2D layouts, as I tend to only focus on one of them anyhow.
Forgot to include my "Samus Aran" nickname in the last posting, oops! I'm surprised this message board lets it post without at least filling in a nickname.
WC 3.3 Is A Good Editor, Definately Worth A Try.
Its basically Hammer editor, fully developed and stuff. Customizable views, easy to use interface.
It was used for Half-Life levels, and there is a tool which converts Quake .wad files into hlwad format included in the Quakeadapter package, and the TxQBSP tool compiles Quake maps directly from this format. Its a good system, and the Quakeadapter makes it all work with no fuss at all.
A couple of people had troubles getting it to work on ATI cards, but some other people had no problems, I would give it a try ive been using it for years with no hassle.
Are there any tools good for converting high quality JPEG/Targa textures into the very strange Quake 8bit palette? I run into issues where auto-conversion disregards the special fullbright entries in the palette, making the resulting textures look horrible.
Also, is there any way to use a custom 8bit palette for Quake? I am not using any of the official Quake textures, though the default monster/item skins are still being used. I am currently working on a very bright level (office building taken over by monsters) with 100% custom textures, so it's a pain when they look so awful in-game.
I use the Dark Places engine for actually playing levels, and it has support for 24bit texture overrides in .pk3 files, but I would still like the stock Q1 to look acceptable when distributing the level to people not using Dark Places.
Log in and it fills in the name automatically.
I use photoshop and TexMex for textures, you'll have to convert textures to indexed colours and load in the Quake palette if you go that route.
If you haven't got a big pile of money lying in the corner then you could try using Paint Shop Pro, which is free and apparantly has automativ palette conversion in the latest version.
TexMex is basically a decent frontend for Quake textures and can do some useful stuff, like extracting from .bsp.
I use GIMP for pretty much any image editing I do, and it's free so there's no barrier to entry there. The first thing I did was created a copy of the quake palette with all of the fullbrights changed to black. This way when you automatically convert textures, the fullbrights are never mapped, as the program always uses the first colour for black pixels.
In order to get the best texture conversion in GIMP, you need to know about a strange, seemingly undocumented feature: pasting a 24 bit colour image from the clipboard into an index image performs an automatic conversion which matches colours better than any of the "mode->indexed..." conversion methods. It isn't always the ultimate answer though, because it performs no dithering, meaning on subtle gradients you get banding.
My current favoured method is to take the full colour texture, copy it to the clipboard, then apply "positioned" dithering to convert it to the quake palette. I then paste the contents of the clipboard to get the better colour matching version I described before, and convert the pasted layer into a regular layer with an alpha channel.
Then it is a matter of experimenting with portions of the two version by painting on the alpha channel of the top layer. Usually I look for areas which display banding, and expose the lower layer to see if the dithering is an improvement. Sometimes areas on textures which are meant to be noisy end up too uniform without dithering - rusty areas are often examples of this. So paint them out on the alpha channel as well. The nice thing about this is that you don't need to worry about undoing anything; if exposing the lower layer doesn't improve it any, then you can easily paint the top layer back in.
I'll admit that usually when I'm doing this, I am converting textures I've created myself for quake. When I'm doing that, I'll work in full colour to blend/dodge/burn etc, but only paint with base colours from the quake palette. So I'm stacking the deck in my favour there. If you're starting with an texture which was never intended for quake, you may have to perform some colour adjustment to it. Trying to adjust specific channels to nudge an image towards one of the quake palette ranges has never worked well for me, but reducing saturation can help for vibrant images. It's a balancing act though, wash it out too much and you'll be worse off as everything maps to the limited grey ranges.
It is possible to replace the quake palette entirely if you can't get good results
has the details of what you need to do, using
You still need everything in one palette though, and there might be a trick to getting glquake to play along. I remember making "noir quake", which just mapped all of the quake palette to sepia tones, and having to mess about to get glquake to forget the standard palette.
Everyone's got their preferred methods. Knowing how methodologic you are Preach yours are probably better.
I tend to do alot of modifying existing textures so my method works for what I'm doing.
And yeah, converts from brand new textures typically have alot of issues, it's rare that you won't have to repaint some once they're in the game.
As opposed to merging two different versions I tend to try pixel painting now. I find it's alot easier than you'd think to achieve reasonable results - especially with cloning tools.
A recurring problem (I haven't found a decent yardstick to solve it yet) is that artists get too focused on what they see in the art program and don't develop the conceptualisation of what it will actually look like in game.
Thank you all for your helpful suggestions, it's very much appreciated.
I have been using Gimp for my image editing for the past 9 or 10 years, so your tips are great. I was trying to figure out how I could get a copy of the Quake palette into Gimp, as I only see a file called palette.lmp or something, and I have no idea how to open or convert the .lmp file into something usable -- could you post your Gimp palette somewhere for me?
Basically what I am doing is using the full size 24bit JPEG textures for the level, but want to make the ones appearing on standard Quake at least not look totally awful/broken. I was experimenting tonight with using the texture overrides, and it looks great when it works (I've run into an issue where the overrides are working in Dark Places on one OS, but not on another, no idea why).
One thing I have noticed even with the 24bit JPEG textures, is that Quake (at least my Dark Places) expects textures to be a bit dark, as light cast onto fairly bright/vibrant textures makes them way too bright and washed out to see clearly. So I think I'll be darkening most of the textures a bit.
palette.lmp can probably be loaded as a RAW image, if you specify 3 bytes per pixel, 16 pixels wide, 16 pixels tall (for 256 pixels.) With the image loaded maybe you can generate a palette file from the colors in the image? I know in photoshop you could switch to indexed color and choose "exact colors" for the palette generation method.
I know in photoshop you could switch to indexed color and choose "exact colors" for the palette generation method.
this is what i did. in fact, i went even further: i created palettes for only fullbrights, without fullbrights, only flame fullbright, etc... also, when converting, it pays to sometimes make a custom palette with say, all blues removed (or maybe only bright blues removed) to make it look right with the dithering.
also, the type of dithering you use has an impact as well. some textures will look good with a pattern dither, other times varying levels of diffusion will look better, and noise is good for smooth, but non-repetitive stuff.
Just To Specify,
i created palettes for only fullbrights, without fullbrights, only flame fullbright, etc...
what i meant was i'd take the full palette image with all 256 colours, and then change all the colours i didn't want to black. then i'd go back to index mode and save the exact palette photoshop made.
Yeah, you can create a palette from an existing image, find something in quake colours, then right click on an existing palette, select import palette, and choose the image as your source. But for ease of use:
Both palettes included.
"Also, is there any way to use a custom 8bit palette for Quake?"
The Half-Life map format.
Supported engines: DarkPlaces, ProQuake, Qrack, FuhQuake, ezQuake, Telejano, FTEQW
Tutorial to add HL map support:
Bottes Ugg Soldes
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here's a list of bugs that i've found during the use of the editor.
also a few features i'd love to have, but aren't absolutely required.
Mostly for baker, but Sikkpin, if you ever swing on by again... ^_^
Thank You Sir
I can't promise any fast action on this.
But we damn well need a good open source map editor and I'm a stubborn bastard and have no intention of going anywhere.
At some random time, I may be asking you questions about how to "tune" this editor.
And I'll make some sort of grand Windows installer for it that sets it up all nice and neat [like the Quake Adapter for Worldcraft 3.3 that I made in '06] or maybe I'll recode QER a bit to make it happen.
It installs worldcraft in c:\program files, and not c:\programs files (x86) in windows 7. Not so grand.
I Made It In 2006
Sheesh! In 2006, who knew what the future held. No Vista, no Windows 7, 64-bit existed in the fringe. It was a creation of that era and I didn't know better nor did I know what the future held.
Re; QE3 Dev
either ask here or just go ahead and send me emails. i don't mind discussing this kind of thing.
I'm happy that someone is interested in continuing the work on this editor. I felt bad for leaving it out to dry like that (especially for necros who put a lot of time into the editor, mapping, documenting bugs and all that) but I've just never had the time to get back into it, and any free time I did have was used for idTech 4 stuff.
Anyway, I have a build here that may be newer than the last version I put up, but I'm not sure. It's been years since I've touched this shit. If anyone's interested, I can zip it up and upload a raw dump of my files. It may not have anything new but who knows...
i was pretty impressed with the stuff you did on the d3w forums so it was worth it, i think. :)
i have QuakeEd 3 beta build 105, but then again, i have two executables that are build 105 but have different timestamps and file sizes.
probably safe to upload your files.
Was a version of QE3 with multiple 2D views ever publically released? It's been a long while for me as well since using this, and I don't have a PC box around to check.
It largely comes down to philosophical differences and preferences, and it's not too big a deal to tab between 2d views, but with a nice big hi-res screen it would be nice to see everything at once, even if it's slightly redundant.
Also, everything necros said about bugs and features. All that's a higher priority than extra 2d views really.
yeah... sikk programmed in a bunch of great presets that can make it look like almost anything. on top of that, you can do whatever you want with the windows and they snap together.
aside from those numerous bugs, i still find this to be my ideal editor. i wish you could customize the hotkeys though. i mean, we've got quake where you can bind anything to everything, yet the editor has builtin hotkeys. :P never really considered the irony of that before.
Could you bundle up your latest and upload and post link here? Doesn't matter if it has bugs.
Uploading to a public thread is superior to private communications, you can't rule out other parties with an interest in your work or with useful things to say about QER.
If its a viable alternative when the next version is up (which it sounds to be) then I'll switch to it.
i remembered another bug that wasn't on the original list i posted. i've updated the list:
the only addition is this:
Vertex Manipulation: The area around a vertex/edge dot that is selectable appears to be a fixed size. ie: If you zoom in, the selection area is huge and if you zoom out far enough, it's pretty much impossible to select a vertex. the selection size should be constant, irregardless of zoom level.
What about the source? Shouldn't that be included in every release? What license is the original QuakeEd source under? I'd like to look at how you are doing vertex manip in this editor.
If It's Based On Radiant
Then it's gpl.
The Source Is In This Thread Somewhere
A bit hard to find, you'll need to look through to find it.
The Source Should Be In The Archive
Any version I uploaded had the source included. But, no matter, here's the latest source. And, like I said earlier, it may be no different than the last beta (v18.104.22.168) I put up.
And yeah, the one I downloaded did contain source - I just overlooked the rar. Sorry.
Decided to give this a whirl and one thing is bothering me. Made a little test room and have it textured. When I quit and reload the map I only get the blue/black checker everywhere and (afaik) no view option to show my applied textures. Placing a texture on a face causes the rest of that brush to revert back to the way they were textured when I saved the file. Maybe I'm missing something obvious here?
you probably didn't specify the wad file in the wad key?
Ah! Got it working, cheers.
sorry to bump this thread for such a small thing but i noticed i forgot to re-upload the bug list i made on this when i switched to slipgateconstruct.
i've since re-uploaded it.
(the old link also works now, thanks to spirit's url redirection!)
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread. It seemed the links here were somewhat dead. Here is a zip I just made of the editor as it was installed on an old hard drive. Should work.
Good save raptore. I'll re-upload that to Quaketastic too. I'm dropping it in the "tools" folder... since it includes the source code, I didn't drill down further into "windows", but if anyone feels like it should be moved somewhere that's fine.
Hmm, I uploaded it to Quaketastic but don't see it there? Maybe waiting for approval or something?
Your Upload Must Have Failed
I did not receive any notification of an upload, which means something didn't work. Please try again.
Tried a couple more times, no dice. It gets to 100% uploaded, then it auto-refreshes the page, but file not there. *shrug* I dunno. This is using Chrome on OS X.
Just Tested It
with latest Chrome on latest OS X, works fine for me. Sorry. Try it with Safari maybe?
Nope, still no luck... I'll leave it to someone else.
Here's some links to keep the files alive. First is the last "official" release (version 1.0.5) and the second is the source code dump I had posted above which may or may not have new stuff in it.