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Community Sinking?! What Can We Do?
Community sinking?! What can we do?

Ok, i�m pretty sick of all these complain and bla bla bla everybody hating each other and what are we getting?

[Kona], Distrans, SPD and many others are simply going away�

What can be done?

1- More people comments the mappers maps and if there is something we don�t like about the map there are many ways to show it instead of killing the people�s will(more positivism).

2- No more community map pack please!!! Always give crap.

3- Contests no delay even if is only one map.

I still think that the bigger machine to make us map is people comments and first runs demos.

So are we going to make something?

Or in the next 10 year we will be playing others fucking games and still with the same negative way of being in life?

I�m not a good example but at least i try.

Chill Out. 
Sit back, take a deep breath and appreciate how awesome it is that after more than ten years this community is still a strong one. The same cannot be said of many online communities.

You're clearly a very passionate person Trinca, but even Quake isn't worth the daily aneurism's you appear to suffer from.

Im Mapping Still! 
As soon as I get the first bit sealed and lit I'll post a shot! 
Get Bailing! 
Text_Fish i�m latin ;)

yes i�m a very passionate person :) but i can say when i�m wrong.


and i one cricified a litle kell but i already admited my error :\

so let all kiss?

Czg call down!!!

in face dont make porno idears...

i�m still mapping to. mapped a little at launch break on tchak. 
Take your Valium. 

Distrans and SPD

we miss you guys :\ 
Jago i prefer alcool :p but in the weekend not during week 
community seems fine, about as fine as its gonna get anyway (although I'm not totally involved)

expo 08 is just around the corner and its gonna be good

plenty of good people are still making stuff.

czg is a prick true, but his license to be a prick wears out more every year he doesn't release anything. so either he stfus, or he releases a new map. win-win for the community I say :) 
Didn't Trinca quit about a month back?


QBoard is dying!!!!! 
nonentity me gustas cari�o! 
All The Incarnations Of This Community 
have had threads of this kind so it's probably just a sign that it's alive when someone cares enough to create one. 
ye Bear said it all!

/me hugs bear 
Good Riddence. 
What can be done?
Map (for all engines)
Promote (to more than just the usual people)
Be nice (to keep people around) 
wised words Spirit! 
The Only Negative Thing I've Seen About This Community... this thread.

When I look elsewhere I see loads of recent map releases given this is an old old game and a lot of previous protagonists are busy with shit. I see a lot of maps in the works, a lot of mods and coding in the works. I see people tinkering around in other games. I see a small but well-established community of people who have been around for a whole fucking decade and I see new people cropping up regularly and being welcomed into the fold. I see banter and bollox and productive periods and quieter periods an no real sign that this community is any more dying than it was 1, 2, 5, or 10 years ago.

i just hope SPD and Distrans return :( fuck the rest!!! 
the rest of craps... not the others that are missed to :p 
It's Not Like People Have Only Just Started Leaving After Ten Years 
The following people have left:

Cheshire, Escher, Gonzo, Ghandi, guf, Gen, Gilt, ztn, RPG, Headshot, danimal, Aardappel, Apollo, Borsato, Peej, Pingu, Paul, Damaul, necros, Jeff Yost, Sadlark, Iikka, Preacher, Hotcakes, Fern, Fat Controller, XeNon, xen, ELEK, bla bla bla bla bla Spirit could think of a thousand more.

It happens. nonentity nailed it.

Let's not pronounce anything dead until at least after QExpo, hm? You can panic then. 
Its Funny 
a few months ago I *might* have agreed with the OP, but now not a chance in hell, there has been so much good stuff released recently its like the 2nd coming of Quake or something ;) 
Actually I thought Sham got it tbh. 
>The following people have left:
.....XeNon, xen,.....

i believe he's still here 'rj'

and where is RPG? 
is in college slaving away for his math professors. I don't think he's coming back, at least he has not expressed any interest the times I have talked to him. He's been gone for a few years though. 
Xen Is Still Around? 
I never even suspected! 
am i wrong? 
If Rj Is Xen It Would 
be like that X-Men episode where during the funereal of Jean Grey, Kitty Pryde shows up at the gates of Xavier's mansion.

one star fallen, new rises, lightening crashes, etc. 
hehe rj is a expirient mapper... from the map he release is easy to know :p but i dont care :) just want some more :p 
check xen's ealry maps email and check the current of rj

figure out the rest

i'm sure xen and rj the same person :) 
Awesome private investigator. :)
rj, do you still have the images for that fantastic "how to spice up a room" guide?
I have some but it seems the webarchive drops them silently over the years. 
..was little more than an attention-deprived jumped up teenager who wanted recognition. i wasted *FAR* too much of my life talking shit on #tf, getting involved in petty arguments on here & spending loads of time in WC/qED without really achieving anything, which is essentially why i left and would sooner forget that part of my life. i just found myself wanting to come back now & then because i miss quake and miss the spirit around here.

spirit: have uploaded the tut + all images here: - take what is needed :)

with regards to the thread, #17 had it pretty much spot on. i remember being sick to death of similar discussions on qmap back around 2001! 
Xen's Back!!!! 
OMG Quake community lives again, panic over. 
Maybe JPL is also RPG with an elaborately french disguise? 
I Hacked Into The Intertubes And Found A Video Of Trinca Playing Mario 
lol Kinn i just play Quake i think is CZG

at least this crapy threath help tp find the lost diamond! 
Wonder how much acid he dropped before playing. 
That Explains It, 
must be the brown 
What Can We Do ??? 
It is simple: stop whining and GO MAP !!! 
i�m mapping :p

my bosses are all out today ;) 8 hours of mapping hehehe 
Ever since Zan left the community, things have gone to shit. 
Zanashi the flying monkey or whatever the fuck he used to call himself... never been the same since he left. 
dont remenber seen a map from him...

URL please!!! 
Shorty has the right idea. I said the same thing when Lun posted the QBoard links.

Although we do have inertia now... That's almost the same 
Aah Haha 
laffo 9000 
Huh, What? 
Wait, I still post...I dunno what you are talking about Lun?

My dog's name is Bailey and she likes ice cubes! 
Anyone have some chives hanging around? 
no no no. You just don't get Zan. He was kinda like a more annoying version of interia, and somehow, did even less! 
Don't worry Trinca, he wasn't as annoying as you, you're still the champion in that category. 
Also Trinca: 
Personaly i think is time for these threaths to be forgotten in history... people guys let then die!!! 
This Was... 
... the sentence of the day :P 
hmm i'm not leaving, i already left like 6 years ago, lol. i do sometimes pop up on here for a cpl weeks once every 6 months, just to see what's been happening :)

same here xen/rj. too much time spent in wc for what was always just a time-consuming hobby. if i could take it all back now, i definitely would.

quake will never die though! 
"if i could take it all back now, i definitely would."

at least u didn�t spent that time with sex,drugs and alcool!

so... it was already a good thing :p

now go map 
I'm glad you didnt/cant. Your maps inspired me!!
So did it get you anywhere? Did you make maps with the intention of it leading on to a job in the industry of computer games?

Giant pink Fiends are cool though!!!!

I get what I want out of mapping - relaxation. Detatchment from real life!!! I'm slowing down with my mapping a bit. Or more like "not pushing myself as hard to continue". Just map when and only when I'm in the mood for it!

Although I do tend to find that once a project gets well underway it is hard to put it down, especially if you know exactly what needs to be done. 
same here xen/rj. too much time spent in wc for what was always just a time-consuming hobby. if i could take it all back now, i definitely would.

heh, at least you had a shitload of decent releases to show for it :)

by my last count, eight years' worth of mapping has yielded two standalone SP maps, three DM maps, two 100-brush maps and a speed-chain-map. four of the standalones were little more than refined speedmaps, with the other being an id remake. i can barely count the contributions to SoE as Tronyn practically remade everything i laid down!

i wouldn't still do it if i didn't enjoy it but without solid, completed, playable results.. it has a tendancy to end up feeling like one massive exercise in procrastination 
cheers guys.

yeah true that, even if you don't release anything, just making maps for yourself is satisfying. it's making architecture in quake that i really loved. it's friggin addictive and fun!

nope i never had any intention of getting a job in mapping. i think that would take the enjoyment out of it.

rj: u should be mapping right now! :D 
Seven years, a 100-brush map that shouldn't have been released, a mediocre Lost Chapters map, a decent turtle map.

Oh yeah, and roughly 100 maps that only have one or two rooms completed.

And I still don't regret it, the thousands of hours spent with rare finished product. Even if I almost never finish anything, I have fun fooling around and building stuff that will never be completed. Though I am working on something I still feel something for after a week, so maybe it will see liht of day. 
.. the solution is that people finish their map. I don't see any interest in starting a map, and never finish it: it is waste of time. 
inounous, your 100b map weas not mediocre, you are WRRRRRRRRRRRRONNGG

and xen, I'd say your SoE maps were 50/50 - you certainly built the basic idea, theme, layout.

I agree however that the productivity to time invested ratio is fucking horrible. I've been trying to finish a few q1sp maps for at least five years. 
guess I should be more specific - ionous, I meant your 100b map was good, not just "not mediocre" which also leaves the possibility "horrible" open 
sure, i'm not gonna argue against that :) the problem for me though is that the creative aspect of mapping comes with making nice looking rooms and setpieces. connecting those rooms and setpieces into a full-blown layout entails less in the way of creativity and more plain toil, wherein the dreaded mappers' block ensues.. 
Let Me Elaborate... 
Why do you think people have so much unfinished map ? I think it is because they are mapping for fun, and if they find something more interesting, they switch to the "new funny thing", and forget they have already something cooking... whatever it is...

Well, I can't require people to not behave like this: we are mapping for fun, we are all hobbyists (most of us) and I understand there is no price at the end of the day for the work mappers are providing, except the self-satisfaction you can have when finishing a map and see players having fun with you "baby"...
Anyway, I don't like starting something, and never finish it. I act like this at home, office, and also for mapping... It is my own behaviour in front of a task... I didn't say it should be the case for everybody. I'm just arguing that it would be cool if mappers try to finish each started map, instead of being perturbated by lower game, just because they think it is more funny... It would result maybe in more quality maps, rather than waste of time and unfinished stuff, that could have been so cool to see the day of lights... though.. ;) 
the problem for me though is that the creative aspect of mapping comes with making nice looking rooms and setpieces. connecting those rooms and setpieces into a full-blown layout entails less in the way of creativity and more plain toil, wherein the dreaded mappers' block ensues..

Ok, so you're an artist, not a level designer.

Team up with a level designer and maybe you'll have more fun. Or take up modelling... 
release the maps as speedmaps :) "the unfinish" of course 
Re: Tronyn 
Awesome, I did actually think you were implying it was worse than mediocre, a charge I would not be able to argue with.

In retrospect, I do think the gameplay at least made the map interesting to play, which Aardappel seemed to agree with when doing the rankings. I do also like the distinction of having constructed one of the ugliest IKblue maps ever. 
i don't think the practice of unfinished mapping is that uncommon. i have loads of stuff i never finished. i have 2 q1 maps that i invested 3 or 4 months on each as well as 3 d3 maps with probably a year's worth of time altogether.

i look at it as both fun and practice. learning the workflow, finding better and more efficient ways to accomplish tasks and such.

for example, last month i wanted to do a little bit more complex scripting than what a normal map calls for, so i built a d3 map based on the movie Cube where nearly the entire map geometry moves and is governed almost by something that could be called AI. triggers send inputs to a main looping function telling it where the player is. it keeps track of where the player was and continuously decides what rooms to rotate/move and what areas to open and close off, as well as where to spawn in monsters. i doubt i'll ever finish it. :P 
why start something not to finish?

i dont see any point... :/

maby it�s just me...

i finish everything like it or not i dont give a shit 
Not That Hard 
The "problem" is most probably that many people here are perfectionists. And perfectionism makes progressing with one's work very slow and hard. 
i don't think the practice of unfinished mapping is that uncommon

Yes, I know, and I'd really like to see this "practice" disappear, and see less mapping loss and more releases ;) 
Not Releasing 
why start something not to finish?
i dont see any point... :/

Because some people have standards. Why release something that you KNOW is subpar? 
To get feedback you otherwise would not have received regarding how to improve it? 
Provide whining ammunition? 
or organize a visit to .NL (Amsterdam) for a weekend with drugs, alcool and grup sex with some nasty bitches?

hehe guess i drink to much at lunch time :) and had nasty drunk idears... i will repost in drunk threath :p 
What Can We Do? 
"What Can We Do?"

Shut up and map. 
To Have The Pleasure Of Working On It Until You Lose Interest 
Just because you don't finish it doesn't mean there's no point to doing it. wtf? 
To Have The Pleasure Of Working On It Until You Lose Interest

exactly, it's not as if you start a map knowing you're not going to finish it!

frib: your reply to my post makes me regret starting this discussion, heh. i'd say i'm a level designer, i just struggle with some aspects more than others and have a short span of focus :) (with anything, generally, not just mapping!) 
Agree With Lun 
Though the pleasure of having players actually enjoying a finished map is greater, there is still a great deal of personal satisfaction getting an odd piece of brush work to align correctly, or seeing an idea for a design motif actually work when you get it up in the editor. 
A Journey Is Worth A Thousand Steps, Or Something 
Although honestly it's not as if when I start something I'm just fuddling with brushes to see where it goes, I have plans and ideas and goals. I really should adapt more of a "what's the point if you don't finish it" mentality. I might finish more that way. :P 
I'd Probably Start Less. 

seriously, and i know this sounds cheesy, but it's more about the journey than the destination when i'm making something. if i get something finished that's more like a bonus. 
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