|Posted by madfox [22.214.171.124] on 2009/01/15 07:09:15|
|Small Quake level of the Hangar, introducing the ZDoomGl models.
It is more a level to expose the new models as it is to show a new mapping skill. First I made it quiet large, and I'm still going on, but the main reason was the new Doom monsters.
They are not perfekt , some have vertice meshes, and the texture thing is still undone. Fitzquake will give the doom glow palette, Gl-engines will do otherwise.
So not a big level deal, but a new monster pak. More magic monsters, like archville, cacodemon, etc.
download (7zip): http://members.home.nl/gimli/Hangar.7z
download (zip): http://members.home.nl/gimli/Hangar01.zip
Have fun with it!
Fitzquake will give the doom glow palette
Translation: fitzquake reveals the fact that these textures have lots of accidental fullbrights.
you can remove fullbrights from a texture by using loading it into texmex with the "use fullbrites" option unchecked in the workspace tab in the preferences. Then, if you want to use the texture in another application you can just copy the texture out from texmex and past it where you need it. I think there is an export option too if you need to save it to a file.
There are a fair few dodgy fullbrights even on the Quoth monsters :( Thankfully, they are not all that noticeable.
Very cool Madfox. Perhaps include the doom shotguns patch (and the original door sound)?
Monsters are pretty good, although some are too small or too big compared to the others. For example the mancubus is a little short :) Also, their HP are obviously too high (or the weapons are too weak).
To see which textures have fullbrights, software quake will always tell you. :)
Maybe use the original fireball sprites for the Baron of Hell?
I found myself in a map with flying doombirds and an outer base, untill I realized it were the Doom monsters I was looking for.
The textures are bad, I know. I was texturing the imp for houres untill I couldn't see a red from green. This wad gamma is hard for using.
I tried pulling up the gamma and tthen work on the colours, but every time I import them to wally this gamma turns back.
than - good to know the use of texmex, than, metl - as the translation of my accidental language
gb - size of the monsters is out of order.
I used qurk47 as it is the only one that uses modelling. The chainguy was to high, the revenant still. I had a hard time on importing sprites. Sometimes qcc just runs out without errors, but the sprites won't turn up.
I tried to add the missile sounds to the painmonster but they won't turn up. I don't now what it is. I will add the qc files to the pak, so you can take a look at it. Then you can see I used the skill settings rather rough. More the speed of the missiles make the difference.
And yes... other sounds can be added, as the ammu packs could. Mastermind is the one I couldn't succeed (fortunately)
There are a fair few dodgy fullbrights even on the Quoth monsters :( Thankfully, they are not all that noticeable.
These are of course specular highlights on the blood splatters..ahem.
It would be nice to fix them, but the only way to "patch" it officially would be to include fixed version in a higher numbered pack which override the current ones. And that seems an excessive thing to do, since the duplicates remain on disk and the download is increased a lot for a small gain. Perhaps I can put a download out for people who are bothered, which would require you to manually replace the files in the pak...
Disk space? Download size? Are these still concerns for people these days? :)
What Willem Said
2nd Run Demo
once i figure out how to deal with a new monsters. as previously been said: Also, their HP are obviously too high...
i would reduce HP of some monsters (as average monsters hp 160-180) also some glitches with the armor shards eg. if you already got maximum amount of whichever armor, you shouldn't be able to pickup additional armor shards. something like this...
link to demo http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/hangar_spy.7z
overall, it's a really good attempt to recreate
the doom atmosFEAR in quake, new features should be tweaked though
a few dodgy fullbrights would go, but as I watch the Cacodemon it's a glowing neon sign.
I tried texmex, imported the textures but when I add the quake palette nothing seems to change.
So I thought to be smart and cropped the quake pallete without the fullbrights. Importing the tex now gives a real crunched colour.
But then it will be probebly not the glowing ball it was.
I am not that good in texturing and it often led me to a brown brewed path. I thought PaintShopPro could extract and replace colours one by one, think I'll look for that option.
How to get my colour out of accident..haha.
spy - I made them rather strong because I got the feeling to make them a tough fight. But the level isn't made in order of gameplay, more the testcase to see the reaktions of the monsters. Thanks for the demo!
I was juggling with bowls and skulls. For now there were only skulls, and I could have give them 1 point armorshare as in doom. That takes 100 entities to get a green armour, so that wasn't an option. I made it 50 which is too high. It had more to do to make it look as if.
The health bowl was something else. It doubles the height you are on, so above 50 you reach 100 fast, but on low it goes slower.
But this is indeed fine tweaking before they are introduced in game.
Quake doesn't use sprites but for explosions, while doom is full of it.
Preach is a perfectionist!
Madfox this is pretty sweet! Sooo many monsters I could use in a doom-style map. Very cool animations. I died trying the map - another weapon would have helped for so many monsters with guns!
Please keep working on it. A Doom shotgun would be very cool.
I perticularily liked to Doomguy monster - I didnt expect to see that in there, and it was quite freaky :P
Ps. Forgot To Say
madfox your mod/monsters etc much better than YPOD mod :) keep working
Doom is cool, this mod as well. It is not perfect, but you made a great job ! As example, soldiers could have been killed with one shotgun hit... though... The map is quite well reproduced. As mentionned previously, you should have made a small effort on textures... Anyway.. I think the mod at least exists, and with some effort you can make something faboulous !
It always a pleasure to see people experimenting new things !!
Keep it up !!
It's pretty rough. I'd be interested to see it in a larger map with hoards of monsters aka doom2, and player and enemy speeds increased. At one stage i came round a corner and found two mancubus facing tightly into a corner. Wasn't obvious at first, but they were gang raping an arachnotron ;>
.. Just thinking about the differences between D2 and Q1 gameplay, and how it's related to the true 3D of Quake. With Doom, the only had two dimensions, really, and gameplay was focused on hoard combat and large open areas. Lack of 3d meant they had to use beautiful big sprites (which this mod really misses). When the true 3d worlds of Quake came along... there was a shift in game play and monsters too.
I'm just kind-of thinking about the idea of "inventions looking for a use". As an example, thomas edison (arguably) invented the phonograph, but it took him 20 years before he acknowledged that it's main use was going to be playing music, and not something more practical. And here's a blog related to this idea with a more PC theme: http://kaiseradvisor.blogspot.com/2008/12/home-computers-were-once-invention.html Anyway, i think my point is... modern 3d games are too realistic and bore me shitless. They force people onto the upgrade cycle, take the emphasis away from fun, and make know-all experts out of clueless teenagers with too much money. I still go for quake and even d***3d. The high-tech of modern GPUs is still an invention without a use. Or maybe they've just found one with the tesla supercomputer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Tesla_Personal_Supercomputer ?
A Doom Mod In Charge
Fun to see the demo, spy!
Jumping out of that window was a long kept wish of mine...
Indeed you can pick up armorshare although it is max 100. But it has to do with the fact they were 20, and I was balancing between bowls and skulls. My turbo is poor: YPOD mod?
There are item_bottle but I didn't use them.
Replacing them would have killed the game.
For me it is just testing these new monsters.
And as far as now I come to the next statements:
Textures are not quake pal but doom. I must find a way to get this fixed.
HP of the monsters is uneven, arachnotron is too strong, cyberdemon to weak and may have a melee attack.
Sounds aren't right adjustes, like doors and weapons.
some monsters have verticemeshes : right leg of the Baron, cheeks of the revenant and chainguy. Also I find dark shadows on some triangles as if the light bumps of the surface.
Baron has a strange texture default in the back I couldn't determine. As if the front mirrors the back in some triangle. I deleted it and added a new one but it is still there.
and the other level gets a monster, only the vis-time execelerates fast.
The doomguy had a stealth position I was rather impressed with. If I could managed the bouncing box to duck out under the shooting line it would be a perfect misser.
Don't know if it is possible, because the player shot takes all from bottum to 64 units.
for crouching doom guy, you could make the entity move down 32 units (so the box is buried inside teh floor) and then make the crouch frames 32 units above the other frames -- so the guy appears to still be standing on the floor, but the box is half in the floor, and the exposed part of the box is shorter. (assumes you never have thin floors where the player can shoot the underside of the floor)
that could be an option! I gave the stealh attack a th.melee, but I couldn't get to the shooting point.
Sometimes the player can't shoot over a bar of 32 units, and I think there is no underlimit.
I'd never heard about YPOD, looks as a good idea. Have they ever finished it? Seems I have to download it.
it is in fact a very old mod. the models you converted from zdoom a much better too but to be fair, ypod was made before even quake2.
Oof, I'm Tired...
are much better, but to be fair, ypod was made before even quake2.
That was good - I can only imagine how much time and effort you spent on it all.
Now for the, hopefully, constructive critiscisms.
I think you need to rebalence the weapons of the enemies quite alot, and some of the attacks seemed odd - is the Cyberdemon firing grappling hooks?
Nobody likes hitscan weapons but I think the cannon fodder could go back to shotguns if they have a health drop.
It'd be good to see the mancubi fireballs come back as well, though to make them look good would need some sort of constantly rotating / animating sphere or collection of objects.
I think the armour skulls should rotate.
It'd be good to see the props redone in 3d as well - the lights posts, candlesticks and burning barrels. Those always annoyed me for their decal tilting behaviour (look at camera).
The size of the arachnotron feels wrong, like it's a mini version. There is a way to hack in a bigger bbox but I'm not sure qhat it is. The dragons patch by Patrick Martin can probably help there.
The palette could do with a change, yeah. I reckon a higher contrast and less brightness, although moving to the Quake palette might lose you some of those bright Doom colours - the red blood and so on.
The flames from the lost soul would work better coming out the back than the top - due to Quake conditioning it took me a few seconds to figure out what it was.
And finally, I'll suggest again applying a Doom shotgun patch. It's easy to do and remove if you don't like it, but I think it'll be worth the effort.
Very nice work so far - remaking stuff can be a gruelling task, but is also very rewarding.
When do we get to see the pain elemental in action?
So I can't download YPOD anymore, shame because I was really curious, the hub was well done.
metl- I tried the option for the doomguy, butI keep bounded to the bouncebox that moves with the model, if I try to move the crouch model up the bouncing box moves also.
ijed- this is made with the idea to get some kind of confinement to the doom models so critisisme isn't an argue. I just want to see the doommodels in quake on a way most players could feel challenged with.
No word of critisisme on the Quoth monsters, they are good, but I miss the magic of the demon and the wizzard, the enforcers make it so millitary.
The Cyberdemon shoots its original weapon : the cybershot. Maybe you are used to firing missiles so it can look odd indeed.
But here begins the hard part, make it spinning. (not turning round as in qmle model/rand)
I could make the skulls rotate, but I haven't found a way to lift them. Bsp_models tend to another hull which gives a strange effect on the floor measure. ie placing it 64 it's half in ground, placing it 32 still half in ground.
There's something in the sprites that give a bright though in quake, they're much more bright than the original textures, but also somewhat rough. The diametric view doesn't bother me as long I can't see them from above.
Anachtron en Mastermind do look much at eachother. But it was a strange experience to import them into a Cad-studio. Some monsters just imported well, others just fell out of shape by the fact my AM2000 makes squares of the triangles, and later on turns them back to vertices.
But its shape could be some bigger.
In fight strange situations appear that two mancubus are fighting the aragnotron but it is completely disapeared. Same happens to the Cacodemon and LostSoul.
If you import the model in Quark47 you can easily change the seize.
Palette's a mesh. Gonna be a though job.
LostSoul is a melt of the skull model with the flame2.mdl as you would probably have seen.
Because it is a frameproperty I can't manipulate the flames in Quark47, only in Qmle one by one.
I tried earlier to make a deathscene as in doom by patiently dividing all parts as last death frame but Qmle sweeps all back again by saving.
The hub I'll try to change, but the biggest part is still the qc. fireballs come back is a great option but cruching with scripts is a whole kind of other thing.
As you say: the pain model in action.
I lost an evening to get the thing shoot a missile. As it is a flying monster the origin of shooting had to be it's eye. But it still shoots somewhat from above.
Madfox, to keep the DOOM colors, maybe use the Half-Life format? Just an idea, some engines can load that. Then you're free of the Quake pallette. See discussion at quakeone.com. I assume the pallette thing also goes for models, not just textures.
I changed the link because 7z starts all kind of errors while upoading.
Zip works better. I added some info about the models and the qc.
new download link Hangar:
maybe metlslime could change the upper link.
gb - possible , I'm searching with texmex.
it mostly concerns the models, because the pcx skins are that way, and wally imports only bmp.
Madfox, Think I Have YPOD Stored Away On Some Cd, If You Want It.
Let me know...
I will take a look at it, thanks for your respond. I'm really curious about it. I had the idea for long that someone else had also made a Doom/Quake mod, but I couldn't find it. So I decided to start one of my own.
I'm wondering about the spectr monster.
I made 8 very small triangles that are used for a bounce box, only then apears an almost transparant player. But that's hard to fight. It misses the dropeye effect of the original apearance in Doom.
The only transparance can be made is with sprites.
Now I have a monster sprite walking, but it doesn't look at all.
please god no, lol
could you do something like quoth has for the polyp? take the normal demon model and just delete most of the triangles but leave enough so you can sort of tell what it is supposed to be and change the skin to something black or very dark?
Make it black and invert the normals, so you only see the back faces.
Or there's alpha.
I was just surprised. I'd never mannaged to get a sprite moving so I was intrigued.
Still I think it is possible when using the right colours. Only strange to see it from death stage as it turns to the same angle.
I've been deleting triangles, but it is almost impossible to make it out of sight. And alpha channel is such a hack.
Then I would go for the unvissible option by using really small objects to creat an empty bouncing box and add an EF_DIMLIGHT.
That's a fine mod, that ypod. Must say the levels are really inspiring! The monsters self are a catch, but given the time they made it not bad at all. Strange to see the the soldiers freeze when they die.
But the hub and the weapons were really convincing. And seeing what they obtained it somewhere slows down my motivation.
Wally uses the same palette format as PaintShop. If you don't have that .pal its here
Open it with Notepad and replace the last 32 colors with:
0 0 0
...and save it as:
Go to Wally Options and enter the nobrights.pal
for 'Quake1' 'use this palette' and 'Color Selection Palette'. Click Apply - OK. Restart and load a wad or 24 bit bmp.
Replace each of the last 32 colors with:
0 0 0
so there are still 256 colors...
for the hint, robot.
I couldn't reach the link, but I can export it from PaintShop.
I'll see what it does.
I can use the colour extraction from PaintShop to indicate the fullbrights into the normal colours from quake. The sight of the monsters become somewhat flat, but it is more easy to recolour the skin files once they're into a more uniform colour.
I tried to import the YPOD monsters into Qmle and they all had the ugly crushed palette.
yeah, meant to mention that before and it must have slipped my mind.
ypod uses a completely different colour palette than quake. this is how they got all the doom textures and monster skins to look close to the originals.
i don't know how to change the quake palette.
Malice and the X-men mod (I think) used different palettes, so it shouldn't be too difficult to do.
For complete overkill, though, couldn't you convert the original Doom textures to 24-bit TGAs and put them in the ID1\textures directory?
Make Some Of Those Normalmaps
and all the other _maps what Lun used to talk about, then run in Darkplaces :D
you can edit palette.lmp ... this is a 768-byte raw file (not a normal lmp format) which has 3 bytes each for 256 textures. It determines the palette used to load all 8-bit artwork.
Don't forget colormap.lmp. This is the file of precomputed colours used by winquake(but not glquake) to display the correct colour for each light level. This is also what controls the fullbrightness of each colour - the 32 fullbrights simply have the same colour for all light levels. So in theory you could create fewer or more fullbrights by manipulating this file correctly. However, hardware accellerated engines would do fullbrights on the usual colours so it might not be a good idea...
Some Texture Converting Info
I use the nobrights.pal initially when making a wad in Wally, then import photos and scans. Then I'll save the wad and reopen it using Wally's standard Quake1 palette, and modify anything that needs fullbrights. This works best when Wally's Options are set with 'Palette Conversion' use 'Nearest Color'.
Maybe the same technique would work well in PhotoShop when making monster skins. Seems like an extra hassle but there are advantages and disadvantages to everything. At least a map level can be made where 40 to 50 monsters can be fought at one time, in one area, without a hic-up in framerates. So this stuff still rules.
The file has a Doom texture wad. I've already removed fullbrights. Use anything in there that helps.
Surprised by the way the harnash lesds to the outside! I made another doom hangar, but this one really looks good. Also the fullbrights are nicely dimmed, only he blizzard outside looks a bit dark. Overall was good lightned.
Where did you track this map, there's no wrong brush spotted, all integer, well done!
I am trying to get the Doom Guy in a crouch scene, but there's something I can't understand in #17.
If I make the model 32 units lower than the original the model appears half in the ground.
Also I can't compare with rising the frames in Qmle again because the bouncing box will also rise.
All I can think of is making the crouch frames smaller, but then again; how low does the player shoot? On 32 units height? 48?
player's eye level is 22 above the player origin, which is 32 above the floor, so that is 54 units. I believe the bullets originate at the eye level.
That is a low point for a bouncing box.
I think when I seize the model to 32 it still will hit.
Maybe there's a way to shield off the attack scene with qc.
Finally I managed a way to get rid of the full brights. It took quiet some time before I realized how to manage this. After resizing the skinfiles so they were divided by 16 I could import them into a wad.
Then in Texmex make them fullbright and delete them.
Still some monsters have a strange red shape, also the skin tex is flattened. But most fullbrights are deleted now.
Still I wonder how to get the Doom Guy in a crouch scene. If I lower the bouncing box the model also sinks in the ground (?!)
i've found a (possibly better way) of removing full brights.
i've been doing some skinning and texture work lately for quake, and dealing with the palette kinda sucks especially because things like texmex don't have great conversion.
the solution is (amusingly) pretty simple. get one of those palette textures that has every colour of the quake palette and load it in photoshop. now, simply remove the first two rows (at the top) of colour boxes because those are the fullbright ones.
convert to index from rgb (or if it's already in index, convert to rgb then back to index) and choose 'exact'. now, you can open up the colour table and save the new palette. this way you can use photoshop's nicer dithering choices.
this also works in reverse. say you are converting an explosion sprite. do the above, but instead delete everything except the second from-the-top row (these are the full bright colours used for flames and such) and do your index conversion with dithering. you'll get a decent conversion with only those fullbrights.
this might be a well known thing for you guys who do textures a lot, but it's saved me a ton of time since i figured it out.
Is now my final stage for a model, basically just to set the correct flags. But one feature it does have is colour replace - you can replace all instances of any given colour in a model for another.
Goodbye fullbrights - which are the bottom two rows in this zany old software.
Should Be Bottom Two Rows In Most Software...
since they are color indices 224-255
Photoshop Tends To Flip Out
and display the palette backwards, going from 255-0.
the .tga file i have of the quake palette has the vertical flipped, i believe. anyway, you can easily figure out which rows are the fullbrights because it's pretty evident. :)
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