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ZDoom Stuff
ZDoom forums are such a mess... so this thread is for news and other stuff about the project, and to link to the occasional epic mod that floats along, such as Knee Deep in ZDoom
and Torment and Torture .

Just some background info in case anyone's missed out. Zdoom is a highly customized Doom engine written by Randy Heit and having a GL fork, GZDoom. Enhancements over Doom 2 include immersive cut-scenes, 3D worlds with jumping and swimming, removal of most Doom engine limits, translucency, a powerful Quake inspired console, screenshot tagged game-saves, and support for all Doom engine games including Doom 2, Heretic, Hexen, and Strife.

It does have it's down sides... the worst of which is a very dynamic api where three things come to mind: It uses the closed source (and ever changing) FMOD library for sound and music; Randy occasionally makes disruptive changes of his own; and the GL features of GZDoom mean mods will often only work with either GZDoom or ZDoom. Did i mention Linux support is an f-ing nightmare. See these forums , ,
or get some old binaries here .
I just had to post... Love this level, but things like this often go under the radar. It's a Hexen inspired castle, with a variety of monsters from KDIZD, Doom 2 and many brand new. It has moody lighting and intricate detail throughout. Highlights include the hoard of new monsters, an unreal-esque mirrored floor, an interactive, macabre dungeon, and interesting finale.

Gameplay is v.good and the secrets (unmarked) rewarding. You should probably make sure to get the plasma gun amongst the towering stacks
of the library as it's sure as hell not easy. (I cheated a couple of times).
Game was played on skill 2 (out of 5) with GZDoom v1.1.4 (GZDoom 1.1.0 or
newer recommended). 
Good Idea Steven 
I like Doom in all variants. 
Zpack has some good stuff, too (as long as one watches the difficulty setting): 
Good Topic. 
Useful if it can become an all-round Doom reference in a digestible format. 
Bind F Freeze 
Just thinking about the numerous old school mods i tried...
007 License to Spell Doom
Had some ace moments.
I've never seen any Q engine with this freeze command. Wahoo ;> 
The Dark Side 
ZDoom is like the Darkplaces of Doom, only more buggy.

The problem with the ZDoom extensions is that your wad will be tied to one engine, for better or worse. All your eggs are in one basket. This wouldn't be a problem if Zdoom was multiplatform and if it wasn't so sluggish.

A dedicated DOOM engine like PrBoom is often preferable. And now that the Heretic source is open,I guess it won't be long until a dedicated port pops up. Perhaps that will also benefit ZDoom.

Hm, ZDoom is aparently no longer in Gentoo portage. O_o It can't be that bad?! 
(G)ZDoom On Linux 
The Linux situation is pretty dire. The developers of (G)ZDoom don't really care about Linux too much and support is often broken. There are patches available as mentioned in the first post but sometimes I've had to go in and edit a snip-it of code myself to get things to compile again. Things like that make me miss binary releases.

I did hear something about ZDoom possibly moving from FMod to OpenAL which would cause GZDoom to follow suite.

Oh and the situation with WADs being (G)ZDoom spefic isn't really an issue as a good majority of the community use the engine.

ps. You might want to check out Skulltag, which provides online play (DM,CTF,Coop,etc) and is based off of GZDoom. The community there is surprisingly active and there's plenty of players and servers at any given time. It is closed source however but that just means you don't have deal with compiling. >_> 
And Now The Cetain Thread 
is at the certain bottom of a certain page, but is still there... 
Not ZDoom-exclusives But Still Great 
Some nice wads I played recently.

D1 E1-style episode with incredible detail (love the shadows) and good gameplay. Highly recommended.

10sectors contest:
D2 megawad, each map uses not more than 10 sectors in total. Neat stuff, kind of like 100b.

2sectors contest:
Even more impressive. D2 16 maps with lots of trickery. 
ZDoom Sucks... 
... use DoomLegacy instead !! 
Doomlegacy Is A Horse Shit 
use gzdoom instead ;/ 
I Say... 
.. and I persist: ZDoom sucks, please use DoomLegacy instead... you damn stupid Doom-ish player :P 
what's wrong with zdoom? i used it to replay strife a while back. what a cool game, btw... 
you damn stupid Doom-ish player :P
you may tell it to your wife/mom, but not me, you stupid horse shit lover... :| 
I think you just lost your sense of humor playing too much with ZDoom :P though... and please don't talk about my mom/wife, you don't even know her... and you don't want to know her... 
I love ZDoom. I don't like GZDoom. Always gives me problems that ZDoom doesn't have. 
.. as if compatibilty/compilation/sound-api isn't bad enough, some mods require either gzdoom or zdoom.

I finished the 10 sector wad. All maps rocked ('cept map31). The first time the cyberdemon shouted his appearance i shit my pants. 
Horse Shit 
I think you just lost your sense of humor playing too much with ZDoom :P though... and please don't talk about my mom/wife, you don't even know her... and you don't want to know her...

i was wrong, i'm really sorry :/
ps. why do you think i'm playing doom at all ;) 
why do you think i'm playing doom at all ;)

dunno.. I was just guessing :P 
i like gzdoom :) works like a sharm and it keep been updated! 
what Trinca says ;) 
... nevermind... 
... nevermind... 
I'd quite like to know JPL's sister... 
.. my sister is a moron.. forget it :P 
.. my sister is a moron..
well, i'm not surprised 
Fair enough...

What's your mum like? 
...being a moron does not mean your cannot be sexy... though... and please let my mom outside the discussion, I'm not talking about yours... :/ 
This Discussion Is Embarassing To Read. 
You are right: let's stick to ZDoom fuckery.. :P 
ZDoom Fuckery 
Knee Deep in ZDoom is I think, the greatest doom mod ever, next to The Ultimate Torment and Torture.

Whats yours? 
knee deep in zdoom looks amazing and has a lot of awesome little things, but i don't think the levels are that fun to play though. i got lost quickly and very bored after a while. 
Trying To Find A Doom2 Map 
which i believe is part of a multimap wad.

It was called "Eye of the Storm" and i'm pretty sure it took up map06 (or maybe 08? i remember d_stalks playing).

It's NOT storm.wad (aka cabal6 by 'cranium' iirc) that was packaged with the Master Levels pack.

i have a vague notion it might have been called "eostorm.wad" but google doesn't find anything with that name.

i'm pretty sure i got it off a pcgamer cd but alas, very few of those remain intact. :S 
Chec K There 
There are plenty of wad to download. It is in French unfortunately, but maybe you'll find hidden in the big wad packs that are provided what you are looking for... Good luck ;) 
The Doomworld archive has pretty much every wad, it seems - give it a try. 
thanks guys, but neither has it. :(

i was actually looking through all the doomworld idgames archive but i was really surprised they didn't have it. i remember the wad pack as being well built and since it was distributed by pc gamer, i'd have thought it would be easy to find again. :S 
AgentSpork's Ultimate Simplicity 
Good stuff. 
Is it possible to disable multitexture in GZDoom? 
Hunch Is... 
no. I'm not sure, but i remember trying unsucessfully a couple of years ago. (It does need 32bpp colors too). 
You could use the software renderer. 
yeah, I am trying to run UTNT, and I've been told that thing has issues on 3.0 Ghz and 2 gb rem computer, lol 
Can't Remember Issues With UTNT 
But I had performance issues in Deus Vult II with ZDoom (too many sprites visible at once). GZDoom helped but its interpolation looks bad and I didn't know how to turn it off. 
So is it possible to play through it in software mode? 
I'd say yes, give it a try. There might be a few slower areas, but most of it should play just fine. 
I heard there are so progression problem because of missing bridges and 3d floors? 
That's why GZDoom is required. It has a software renderer, too. 
They were ok.. No terrible maps, but quite a few meh ones... The last ten or so were good, with some interesting bridge work. Map 29 was the shiner for me - great action. Big monster count with *no* Plasma , Cyberdemons or Masterminds. Map 30 was interesting i suppose. That Revenant hidden in an internal corner scared me shitless, laugh. I heard a missile fired off but couldn't see where it came from, until.. Holy fuck!! right beside me!! Map 25 was cool too, With a "007" infiltration feel. Started the 2sector ones. Holy hell they're cramped ;> Look nice

I was wondering, does anyone have a link to Randy talking about Zdoom ? It's such a huge project, but afaics he keeps a fairly low profile. 
Phobos: Anomaly Reborn 
Jesus Negke, that's easily the best doom 1 mod i've seen. And to be honest, it kicks quake's arse.

I guess you caught the secret map e1m9, and second episode (sub-Par). Playing with gzdoom , it needed doom.wad. With doom2.wad, level progression was failing. 
Deus Vult 2 Is Amazing 
some maps are more detailed than some modern quake maps. 
Are there any doom map review sites? 
As if the exclamation mark hadn't been bad enough... 
What are some good wads with custom weapons/monsters besides KDIZD and UTNT? 
Check Wads Page Here 
I don't know many. Satanic is a great TC, but no new levels

The older Osiris has nice sound, enemies and weapons, but level design is bland 
Marble Blood ... Pretty good. 
I have stumbled into this:
Doom Postmortem by Tom Hall and John Romero - GDC 2011 
haha, I posted about that ages ago! I actually did find it, and the map is much worse than I remember it. :P 
The Refinery (E2M3 Remake) By Tormentor667

More KDIZD-like stuff. A large, visually-impressing remake of E2M3 with typical excessively hard and unfair gameplay. For GZDoom 1.6.0 or higher. 
Those screenshots are way too dark. 
hmm yeah mostly hitscan enemies, bugger all health, uninspiring placement of monsters/fight design and confusing layout.

Pretty though. 
That Man 
knows how to make a pretty map. 
The Idea Was To Slow The Player Down And Make Him Play More Cautionsly 
By the way, the Community Chest 4 megawas was released a couple of days ago as well. 
Looks great - interesting enemies, but not promising when you're massacred by a mob of teleporting ghouls in your first encounter. 
I was talking 'bout Tormentors map.

Up to map 7 - Hoedown - on CChest4 and it's starting to heat up. Nice stuff :) 
Keep at it. As usual it's quite a mixed bag. Some very average maps, but also some very nice ones. My favorites so far are 08, 10, 14, 18, 20. 
Yeah, 20 is a bit of a bizarre sci-fi themed epic. But they backed it up with similar in 21, which just doesnt work.

Loved map 24. Solid gameplay and detailed base level. 
ZDoom Community Map Project Take II 
I played the beta a while ago. It's great stuiff. 
Going Down 
Got back into Doom wads recently after finishing Doom1 and Final Doom. Going Down is the first wad I tried in I don't know how many years.


tl;dr: Going Down is a fuckton of fun with some really inspiring level design.

Going Down is a 30-ish level .wad for Doom2 by mouldy/cyriak. Yes, that cyriak. The Welcome to Cat City cyriak. I don't know if mouldy is cyriak or if he just did the custom music for the wad or what, but the levels certainly have that schizophrenic quality you see in his videos.

Anyhoo the idea around this map pack is that you go to the top of this building, then descend, floor by floor, to the bottom. So the maps are pretty small but full of bad guys to mow through. I don't want to spoil it for you, but the level design is pretty innovative (I guess, I haven't played a lot of Doom maps to compare) and the maps don't become stale at all.

Combat mostly sticks to horde-style. Like, sometimes 500-800 kinds of numbers in a couple of them. But mouldy changes the pace in several maps with smaller numbers but more interesting game play elements. Again, I don't want to spoil it, but the levels get pretty mind fucky. I actually thought I dropped acid during one level. Not for real, but like, it certainly felt like a Doom version of dropping acid.

The only thing I kind of got tired of was the music. Cyriak is great and everything, but basically it's listenting to 3-4 hours of Cyriak while killing hordes of demons and stuff. I just found his style tiring after a while. The music isn't bad or anything, just a bit repetitive for my tastes.

You could totally play it in an afternoon or break it up into smaller chunks over a couple of days, like i did, but I don't think you'll get bored of it. It's a solid map pack and plenty of fun. 
Thy Flesh Turned Into A Draft Excluder 
Since Zwiffle is recommending wads,

I'm on the final level of this now, haven't had the time to sit down and really address it. Draft Excluder is for me, tough. Not beat my head against the desk tough, but rather "Wow, I didn't realize I could do that..." tough. The maps are pretty linear, but they have enough going on with fun combat that this isn't a serious negative. Impressively, while being restricted to the Doom bestiary, the combat doesn't get old. Secrets are plentiful, adequately hinted at, but not always obvious. I consistently felt an accomplishment from finding them, and I didn't find every single one.

I'm on the last map now, and... it looks a tad crazy. I shall see how I handle it. I played for 20 seconds and encountered four Cyberdemons, a couple of different hordes, and heard a Spider Mastermind... Don't let that scare you from the WAD, the final level is obviously a tonal shift from the rest.

This made it into the 2014 Cacowards Top 10, and I see why. 
Just because you mentioned them.

I like them because it's a pretty good filter to find the best Doom Wads out there without a lot of hunting around plus they link to the wads themselves so no need to go looking for them. 
going down is in my opinion a must play. But I think the latter levels gameplay isn't as good as the rest. Still liked some of the ideas for the settings in the final levels, especially the dark corridors turning to hell and the hellish city 
I really didn't enjoy Going Down. I think the skill level of Doom players has passed me by, I found the lack of ammo and health makes it far too difficult for me. 
I Thought 
Other than a couple of levels (Indigestion, mainly) that GD had an overabundance of ammo and health. But I didn't play on hard mode or anything. 
I always play through on Ultra-Violence.

For me Doom has never been about showing restraint or conserving ammo, it's been about dealing with a fuck-ton of enemies and surviving against ridiculous odds. But somewhere along the line this got lost in some wads and now ammo needs to be conserved a crazy amount. 
It Should Be Noted 
Skill levels exist for a reason. 
IMO if I can play normal doom on UV then I think it should be balanced the same for other wads. 
Not really ... the player community has moved on from the retail levels and the skill level has ratcheted up accordingly. 
This way of thinking is selfish.

UV is the hardest skill level in Doom (NM is more of an additional game mode not intended for normal play). If every wad was balanced to play like Doom 2 on UV, players looking for bigger challenge would get nothing. 
Advise in this thread :-

Same Goes For Quake Maps Btw. 
Being able to beat Quake in skill 2 does not mean that you can beat modern SP maps in skill 2. 
Unless It's A Sandy Petersen Map... 
in which case no-one completes it on skill 2. ;) 
Yeah No Way Modern Quake Sp Skill 2 
is the same as ID skill 2.

Same should apply to current doom sp maps. 
You can apply the logic of scaling like the original Doom if you're playing it keyboard only without always run. If you aren't, then you have to acknowledge that people are making new maps to challenge their new skill ceiling.

I'm not good enough to even look at Sunder. That is a fact. However I will return to my previous post to say I finished Draft Excluder, and that final level had me in a vise, but I managed to carve a foothold and make it from there. 8 Cyberdemons and 5 Spider Masterminds... Not all at once, but - well, 6 of the Cyberdemons were all at once - I didn't think I could do it, but I did. 
Back To Saturn X Ep 01

What a fucking privilege it was to play this map pack.Seriously, the maps are gorgeous, some a little more than others, but across the board the map quality is top notch.

It took me about a week and half to get through the whole thing, but I felt it was worth it. Seriously, everything is great, except for like 2 small problems.

Music - Not to my liking. That's okay though, it didn't kill the experience.

Map Repetitiveness - Consistent use of the same texture set creates a cohesive whole, but a repetitive and tiring whole. They do change it up a bit more in the later levels, but it's all Q2-textured space stations. A hell level or two to break it up would have been welcome. That's okay though, it also didn't kill the experience.

There is also an Ep 02, which I have not played yet. 
There's a bit less repetition in the second episode, and I liked the music more (although that doesn't mean you'll like it too, of course). 
So I've been looking at Doom a little bit lately. I have a tech question which is super-noob, but ...

OK, so the WAD file contains the linedefs and sectors and so on. Is there a compilation process that goes on beforehand to generate a BSP tree of some kind or are they in there raw and Doom figures it out at load time? Like, what are editors like Doom Builder doing when they write out the file? Is there a pre-process step? 
There is, but I remember it taking only a couple seconds during the save on a Pentium 90 so it's probably unnoticeable now. 
Yeah, it's pretty much instantaneous I'm just wondering what it is. I mean, is there a command line tool you can grab from somewhere to do it on your own or is it a piece of code that every editor copy-pastas into their export routine or ... ? 
I thiiink it does the same thing qbsp does, but in only two dimensions, splitting sectors into convex subsectors and cutting necessary linedefs.

I also think it started out as a command line tool called NODES, but it's been rolled into the save process since DEU in the early 90s. 

Thanks for the push, I appreciate it! 
Actually, DB uses external node builders during saving. They're just bundled with it. It's possible to choose/configure/add them in the options. 
Only by messing with config files, pardonne moi. 
Ah, right, the tool was called BSP.

Funny how I associate that with Quake so strongly I didn't think it could have been the actual Doom map compiler name too, even though I knew B.S.P. is what it did. 
Quake's tool is QBSP.exe, not BSP.exe 
you know what I meeeean 
Back to Saturn X Episode 2 is very cool too. The temples remind me of Doom 64's, albeit a lot brighter. 
this years best megawad imho, just works, great looks, fun to play. Cacoward material 
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