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New Q1SP From Necros - Moldy Tower
Originally inspired by negke's Skinny Norris, I didn't fully adhere to the 768x768 rule. Instead I just used it as a rough guideline that it had to be as vertical as possible.

Medium sized with a bit slower gameplay than usual. Uses id medieval textures and a mix of Kell's kdmtex.wad and apocrypha.wad.

Note: You need an engine that supports the -quoth command line (although it is possible to run it without that with some hackery). The map however, does require an engine with increased limits (such as FitzQuake 0.85 or AguirRe's GLQuake). Some of the mandatory limit increases are: Lightmaps, Edicts and Models. Other increases that help but won't cause a crash: Beams, Packet Size and MarkSurfaces

Will check out immediately. 
Fucking wow that was good. Although I thought it would be a tad longer with the monster count, it turned out to be a pretty solid length. Surprised I actually made it through the damn layout, it's pretty confusing, but still workable.

Am excited. Wish I'd spotted this earlier this evening. Oh well, soon. 
The atmosphere in this map is incredible. The turning gears, the breaking floors, the body being pulled into a tight crawl space, with the end battle being the best of it all. There was never a moment where i didn't feel entranced in the game. Lighting was dark and moody, which suited perfectly. Difficulty was also fair. This is no doubt an A map. Fantastic work necros! 
Great to see a level of this format as I it rapped me from my mapping plans! Can't help my P3Gb is crying like a vacuumcleaner. Will turn the QuakeCd volume full to finish this monster.
Excellent job, Necros..,a true jewel!!! 
Why Is There Only 1 Screenie? 
Screenshots please (Ban Flash!).

I tried the map earlier and a totally stupid bug by nvidia makes the game freeze every few seconds. It is related to complexity or something. So I cannot play it right now, damn! 
i've found 3 so far, you just have to dig around his site. There's on in "work" for example, and another one in "news" that seems to be reused in "downloads." 
Yep Found Them 
hardly screenshots though are they :) 
Zommmgggg can�t wait to get home and put my hands in the last release of my favourite mapper work!!!

Will try it tonight for sure...

There is nothing better then 22:30 in a day like today at my home... kids sleeping and me with a glass scotch with water, enjoying an outstanding map that will be for sure :)

Anyway I still got a whole day at work :( I will try not to think on this or time will not pass today :p 
This was excellent! So wonderful. I loved all the machinery with moving bits and pieces, and the cramped battles, like inside a big clockwork.

The detail of mapping in the outdoors area simply amazes me. I mean, who puts little strands of seaweed by a shore that nobody normally has time to look at? I had to noclip around in that area for a while after finishing the map a first time (on easy).

FitzQuake wouldn't work on my rig; after about a minute (up the second case of stairs) sound would begin to stutter, and everything would play in slowmotion. Jardrup's engine worked better, but half way through my first play (I was even recording!) I had to alt-tab back to windows to see what the impulse was for that plasma gun. Alt-tabbing back into Quake did not work. So I have a half first play demo which I won't bother posting. Finished the rest of the map from my pre-alt-tab save game.

After that, I did finish it without dying. And it was a pleasing experience. Sortof short, but packed with fun. Yeah, the body being dragged into a hole was a definite mood setter =)

Always looking forward to a new Necros map (and occasionally enjoying one of the old ones!) 
try a larger -heapsize value with fitzquake 
Yeah that solved it for fitzquake :) 
Re Posts Above 
on the monster count,
the end fight is supposed to have continuously spawning monsters, so the hordespawner there is set to spawn 100 monsters.
unfortunately, the hordespawner adds the # of monsters to the kill tally right at the start of the map, so you end up with 100 extra monsters. to get around this and allow a player to get 100% kills, i made a second hordespawner that creates (up to) 100 'boss_death10' entities.
the great thing about boss_death10 is that not only does it add 1 to the kill score, it also fires it's triggers AND removes itself.

the way it works is that each monster spawned triggers a trigger_counter which is set to '100'. when you end the map, the normal monster spawner is killtargetted and the other spawner, that spawns 'boss_death10' is triggered to start. (this is why the monster count 'ticks' up after you win).
the boss_death10 spawner also targets the trigger_counter so when the counter hits 100, it killtargets the boss_death10 spawner.

on screenshots,
there's a pretty big thematic change halfway through which i wanted to preserve as a surprise, so i deliberately didn't take any shots from anything passed the first section.
however, the first section is also where it is most strictly confined to 768x768 and i wasn't able to get good shots that didn't completely give away the entire area.
anyway, here's a couple that i used for cropping:
screen shot 1
screen shot 2

thanks for the comments :) 
<- Func_ Ate My Earlier Post 
So I'll just say that this map is cool, the details i.e. corpse drag are great, I liked the "lightweight" gameplay (low tier monsters and weapons, little health), and the end was superbly spectacular.

Very refreshing to see a classic Quoth map again after seeing all those (not necessarily base) maps with quoth2 enforcers...

Any more Q1SPs in plans? (please say yes) 
it's still very early though, so i'll just leave it at that 
I'm Glad My Map Inspired You To Do This 
Slow and boring demo:

Very enjoyable map! Pretty atmospheric, good use of sounds (no cdtrack set, though). The corpse effect and the foreboding voreling ambience were great, too. I definitely liked the lowkey gameplay and the visuals - brushwork and machinery - though better texture alignment would've been good in some spots. A pity the map wasn't larger (higher).
The end battle worked well, but may also be somewhat luck-based for some people. 
at one point in your demo, you said 'invisible key?'

when i was watching, a lot of models weren't visible to me (like all the rotating gears), as well as the key you mentioned...

what engine did you use? i think something was up if you couldn't see the key or the rotaters and such. 
Sorry, My Fault 
For some reason I was playing on Fitz protocol 15, that's why some of the entities didn't show up. I missed some great cogwork because of this.

metl: feature request for 0.90 (as if there'll ever be another version) - dynamic limit breach detection/protocol selection 
i have considered that actually. on the other hand, the only reason to use 15 is compatability (for hosting a server, or recording a demo) and if you auto-switched to 666 halfway through it would defeat that goal. 
That was really quite strange, and brilliant. Yet another intriguing and entrancing progression in Quake mapping. 
Wow, Instant Classic 
What shambler said. This goes where no one has been before. Quoth showcase too, the sounds, the gears, the "horror" part. Just incredible work!

Just wish it was a bit longer or maybe there was some ultra secret, gonna explore later. (And those few pesky fullbright pixels... ;) ). 
So This Map Has Rotating Gears? 
Oh my oh my

I�m stuck in the outside area really hard on hard :)

Anyway got 3 first demos runs with nice noobish deaths

The map so far is what i expected... full of atmosphere and outstanding brushwork!

More feedback and demo after i kill those bastards! 
Very Nice Indeed 
couple of questions, what are the white beams of light at the start of the brown area and why is the monster count 156? 
I should say Mister Necros, or even Master Necros: this map is a fucking amazing piece of Quake !! nothing to add more than what others said, except that I really loved to play it. The end is Fantastic :) 
I've just replayed the map, sober this time and with the proper protocol. Great stuff. The ladders work well, they even add to the overall appearance/theme. I found the 'secret' this time and also realized that I've missed a whole bunch of monsters in my first run (the ones right before the SK cage). The end battle isn't so difficult after all - all one has to know is that the Cross deflects the 'environmental' Death Guard balls. Nice intermission!

I'm interested in how you did some of the hacky extras. 
Thanks Guys! 
nitin: the beams of light: they are supposed to be rays of light leaking in through holes in the walls and ceiling but visible because of the dust.
the whole idea of the map is that it's an ancient tower that the death guards/knights/lords have taken over, but they've blocked up the bottom areas. i chose to do light rays instead of the electric lamps because i wanted to have a nearly completely silent area right after the lift ends.

as for the monster count, it's an unfortunate side effect of the end battle. the death knights are supposed to spawn continuously throughout the fight. i used a hordespawner for them. the hordespawner needs a 'count' value to let it know how many monsters to spawn, so i just put a big number in there (in this case, 100).
unfortunately, the way the spawners are coded, they add the total # of kills at the start of the map.

i didn't want the player ending the map with less than 100% kills though, so all the death knights spawned by the spawner target a trigger_counter set to 100. this keeps track of how many have been killed so far.

when you go through the end trigger, first it killtargets the monster spawner. then it triggers an info_notnull with a brush with a 'use' key set to 'trigger_void' which envelopes the entire play area. this removes every monster left there.

finally, it triggers a new hordespawner, except this one spawns "boss_death10" entities. the boss_death10 function is used in a progs hack to add kills to get around the fish bug in unmodified quake. the great thing about this function is that, not only does it add a kill, it also triggers it's targets and removes itself! so all the 'boss_death10' entities have a target to the same trigger_counter. as these spawn in (the hordespawner for them is set to 1000), they trigger the counter up until it maxes out at 100 and removes themselves (this makes sure you get all the kills back from the death knight spawner). when the counter hits the max, it killtargets the 'boss_death10' spawner to stop any more kills from being added.

incidentally, that battle was designed from a discussion a while ago, when willem released that base map. we talked about how end battles have a sort of opposite progression to them. as you fight to the end of a battle, the battle usually gets easier the more monsters you kill, which is unfortunately the flaw of any arena battle.
to get around this, i added the explosive shooters and the infinitely spawning death knights.
on top of that, once the 2 death lords are dead, the shooters start shooting twice each, so instead of 3 fire balls, it's 6.

also, on hard skill, the cells only respawn 4 times and the cross respawns every 45 seconds (so you have to spend 15 seconds without protection) whereas on lower difficulty levels, the cross respawns every 30 (or 20 on easy) seconds and the cells are infinite.
the death knights also spawn faster on hard. on easy they only appear every 14 seconds, but on hard, i think it's every 7 or 8.

finally, although you can try to kill the super gaunt before the death lords, it's surrounded by trigger_teleports such that it will port around the area making it really annoying to kill. when the 2 death lords die, the teleporters are killtargetted.

negke, which hacks are you referring to? 
grats on getting the PL secret trinca, you're the first to do so even though it was an accident. :P

also, as an aside, because i've noticed every one who recorded a demo doing this:
you can just press jump to get off a ladder and it will throw you in the appropriate direction. 
A quick playthrough before but am returning to this now - excellent work it is. 
Thanks Necros 
was just a bit confused because I could not see any entrance point for the light beams. 
This Was Great 
Necros you really outdid yourself this time! =)

Great, great theme. Loved the new sounds you added, they really notched up the atmosphere. Cogs are the new crates =) 
There's a pretty big thematic change halfway through which i wanted to preserve as a surprise

Worked :>

Whole thing is pretty amazing, but i missed not getting to explore the outside area more though, as it looks spectacular.

Now's your chance to escape

Quake.... we don't run away. Oh well.. Maybe this time. The end tally counter is cool. 
The Quad thing, for instance. And the boss teleport setup. And the knight drag.
It's probably less complicated than it appears, but I'm always up for new technical tricks. 
Bunch of demos from me (if they crash, please tell me): 
the hack where you get a free quad after killing the death lords is actually abusing the built in quake 'unstuck' feature.
when you go through a teleporter (or turn on noclip), the game saves the origin you were at so that, if your new origin is invalid (ie: stuck in a wall), it can pop you back into place.
so all i do there is teleport the player into the floor. he picks up the quad, but gets 'unstuck' and put back where he was.
the only thing is that it doesn't remember your orientation, which is why your view changes, which is unavoidable.

there's also a transparent trick involved with the shooters. when the death lords die, the shooters start shooting twice per 'spike' instead of once (6 fireballs instead of 3). the tricky thing there was that they had to both have the player as the activator AND had to start firing at the right time (otherwise the fireballs would come out at uneven times).
there's a logic gate with a lightning trap that starts firing at the same interval as the trap shooters which starts off blocked. when the dlords die, the logic gate is opened.
the trick is that it doesn't turn on the info_traps. it triggers the teleporter that gives you the quad.
it's actually the quad damage you pick up that triggers them (so that the player is the activator, if the lightning started them it would be 'world' that triggered them). that's why you will sometimes get the quad sooner or later when the dlords die, and not always at the same time.

the boss teleport is pretty simple. there are 4 info_teleport_destinations surrounding the arena. each destination is surrounded by 5 trigger_teleports (4 for the sides and 1 below) that teleport to another of the destinations.
each destination is surrounded though, so no matter where it goes, it's bound to teleport somewhere else eventually.
when the death lords die, all the trigger_teleports are killtargetted.

as for the knight drag, it's actually from when preach coded in model support. previously, you couldn't assign a model to a func_ because the game would complain about not having it precached.
there was supposed to be a func_train_point made specifically for assigning models, which is what i would have used, but that entity is actually broken, because it's still coded to set the func_train_point as SOLID_BSP which is not allowed with a .mdl (or external bsp afaik), so the dragging knight is actually a func_rotate_train (which is never solid).

spirit: i was able to watch your demos fine in aguirReGLQuake. pretty funny, if you don't mind me saying so, especially the first couple. ;) 
Hackity Hack 
the hack where you get a free quad after killing the death lords is actually abusing the built in quake 'unstuck' feature.
when you go through a teleporter (or turn on noclip), the game saves the origin you were at so that, if your new origin is invalid (ie: stuck in a wall), it can pop you back into place.
so all i do there is teleport the player into the floor. he picks up the quad, but gets 'unstuck' and put back where he was.
the only thing is that it doesn't remember your orientation, which is why your view changes, which is unavoidable.

Brilliant!! It's really cool hearing about such trickery with very basic quake functions. 

Slow, cautious, vaguely inept, but I made it! 
Sweet Sorcery 
Great job, Necros! The gear lift, light beams, and end-game hackery make this map more than memorable. The added sounds were put to good use and I loved the little touches like the knight drag. The textures and architecture were a mixed bag overall, but they somehow worked. I was a little disappointed at not having to revisit the water area on the bottom floor. I also found the ending slightly confusing, but I eventually caught on.

It will be tough trying to top this release, but I know you can do it! ;)

P.S. Quoth ladders need help now! 
i had some issues with quoth ladders since i'm so used to climbing rubicon2 ladders (where jump = climb and you face away from the ladder to fall off) 
i myself prefer the hl style ladders where if you walk 'towards' the ladder, you move up (and move down if you back 'away') and when you jump, you fly off in the direction you're facing. they're also a lot faster.

the quoth ladders are at the mercy of the mapper.
you have to set an angle key, and contrary to docs, the angle key has nothing to do with what angle you have to face to use the ladder, but instead, it refers to the angle you are thrown off when you jump.

it's unfortunate but i noticed nearly no one jumps off the ladders in this map, even though they are set up for it. i can only assume it's because they don't know. :( 
You can jump off ladders??!!?? 
You can jump off ladders??!!??

Isn't that the ONLY way to get off the ladders? 
Yeah I Found 
jumping off was the only way, don't know which ladders you guys wee using :/ 
Reminded Of 
One of Gb's Qouth testmaps with multiple ladders, jumping between them was the only way to finish the level. 
Thanks for explaining. Pretty clever. 
Oh, my... 
What To Say That Hasn't Been Already... 
I thought this map was pretty awesome. I mean that literally too, my jaw dropped several times while playing, and I had to remind myself I was playing a 12 year old game. I was drawn into the ambiance created through architecture and map entities. My disbelief was well suspended, and I really felt like I was in a creaky moldy clock tower, crawling with vorelings. Using new sounds for the lifts was a pretty simple change, but it was very effective in making the map seem different. Also, the rotating bits are some of the best utilized I've seen in any quake map I can remember, so kudos for that.

The gameplay in the first half actually felt like a medieval version of xplore by speedy - tight gameplay with well placed monsters where every shot counts. A welcome change from the mindless horde-killing maps.

The final battle was way more difficult than I was expecting, on hard (it took me probably 20-30 tries), but it was certainly something different, so I had to figure out what was going on and what to do in the heat of battle. It was mostly the player-seeking bomb launchers that I would forget to pay attention to for a brief moment, and then pay the price for. I certainly don't intend to advocate stifling innovation or anything; no, new styles of boss fight are definitely a good thing. (and I'd never have thought up an entity setup like that in a million years) 
Not dead while the netherworld plasmatic heart keeps beating. 
Quake's not dead

Falacy, deceit, eternal lie!

It's... Wonderful. 
..All I can humbly offer is a crappy, boring demo...

12 mins, skill 3, 157(?) monsters, 100% secrets. 
It was mostly the player-seeking bomb launchers that I would forget to pay attention to for a brief moment, and then pay the price for.

yes, the shooters were kind of a toss up. with the cross, they won't even do any damage at all, unless it's direct hit, and then only like 10-20 damage (when you have the YA, like ~10).

i like the way powerups like that change an entire fight around. i think there could even be something where pents or quads are not overpowered, and maybe even a way to work invisibility in somehow...
i wish we had added the hipnotic wetsuit in. it had the added effect of giving you normal movement speed in water instead of that 60% or whatever with a biosuit.

the silent: not boring, always fun to watch people play your own maps. thanks! 
Thanks To You, Really... 
...for all the beauty&fun!!!! 
sexy as fuk.
firstrun (died at the scorpions), love the sound and the suspense, as well as train models, cogs and other weird shit like breakable stuff. Nice mix of enemies (for the part I did seen), jealous..... 
is that like a rickroll where you make me download my own map? lol 
sry - nope, just a rick-fail where I evidentally uploaded the wrong archive top the demos/ folder on quaketastic. Bugger. There is actually a demo, but its on my home PC, I'll post it later

OK, Here Is The Actual Demo:

Willem - Im sorry about this but there's a copy of in the demos dir on Quaketastic

Necros - promise its the real demo this time :)
Also its Fitz 0.85, so protocol 666 'n stuff.

(sorry Willem, I know 'uve had probs with .85, heh, dont even know if you'd really want to watch me die anyhoo! :P) 
OK, I removed the map from that dir. No worries, Ricky! 
ricky, that demo made me laugh, thanks man! ^_^ 
I was looking forward to play this one since the very first green teaser screenshot pop-up on your webpage, necros. the map does not dissappoint: the sounds, the cogs, the ladders implementation, the style-change halfway though+the final epic battle (haven't managed to survive there yet)! wow, all great, superB level, thanks 
Taw Review 
I Didnt Even Know About That Site 
Yeah, I Am Trying To Pimp It A Bit. 
One cog too few. 
Wow this is just so good, fantastic visual, awesome atmosphere and the way things move around and lock together is breathtaking. Plenty of 'is this really Q1!?!' moments for me. The skill levels were good, I actually completed the map the first time through. Plus I still felt like it was a challenge. Need to play this a couple more times through. :)

This is the sort of map I would love to make with Q3 visuals but it seems necros has done a better job with the Q1/quoth engine. 10/10. 
thanks! :)
i'm glad the map didn't stomp on you. ;) 
I Must Be Cranky 
I am sure most people think I am some noob quake 1 player here but I do play games to enjoy myself and not be tortured with crazy hard skill levels when I first play a map. If a game has easy/normal skill levels, they should do what they say and not pretend to be hard/nightmare. Necros, your map skills were good and to me that is a big part of what game design is about. Balanced AI encounters depending on correctly worded skill levels. :) 
sorry dude, i wasn't trying to have a go at you.
honestly, it really was bad luck that you chose both tronyn's and then negke's map to start off your venture into custom maps.
you're probably no worse than most of the guys here. i died a lot on both those maps as well. 
negke's maps are really weird-smart hard whereas mine are just really brute-force hard. I'd reccomend (in addition to Necros' The Living End/Elder World Waystation) my 2005 map The Masque of the Red Death, if you get a's much fairer than my more recent ones. But aside from my maps or my reccomendations there's tons of great stuff in modern q1sp (travail, war spasm, quoth, etc). 
You might want to put that one on the back burner for a bit. It's not exactly a walk in the park. 
I never actually tested easy skill, although some played through on it and said it was reasonable.

Normal and above are pretty terrifying tbh - especially given the play times.

Moldy Tower is indeed a great map. 
can't believe I missed this one. Absolutely wonderful atmosphere and gameplay throughout, and some extremely creative use of Quoth entities.

Loved the gears etc. early on, and the second section being empty for a while really created a lot of tension. Interesting boss fight that I died on and didn't manage to finish (will probably go back later...)

Anyway, I really wanted to ask if there is source for this, as I'd like to see how some of the plats are set up so that I use them better in my own level. The Quoth mapping guide is good, but missing a whole bunch of Quoth functionality, so getting a hold of the map source to this would be excellent. Any possibility of that happening, Necros? 
Map Sources 
Glad you liked it!

As linked above, there are map sources for lend, doom, tower and ruins. I can probably dig up the older stuff if anyone cares, but I didn't bother since they're just really old. 
Doh, I Suck 
I went to your page but didn't think to look there for sources (just assumed they'd be in the original zips... doh!)

SlipgateConstruct Was Exploded By A Vore 
Anybody still got the sources? 
Found them, nevermind. 
FFS They all give me a 404, and there are no sources beyond the one for ne_ruins.

I need to think before I post. 
no they're gone for now. sorry. :( 
Look At Me, I Am Amazing 
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