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Deleted News Item.
Edited due to copyright controversy and lack of actual mapping.
Oh God 
also, illegal. Unless id tolerates qn textures in qn+m games. 
Now that is one fugly map. Well, the links are not meant to live long anyways, eh? 
Sure The Deal Was Rotten, Soon I Will Be Pickin' Carmack's Cotton! 
that was the plan, but whatever.
i dont think id will go for ql custom maps anyway, maybe for the cellphone ports of quake or doom they make a deal with jamba, where you can buy wads with great never seen before content for some fixed price for a whole month long and if you forget to send the cancel message even for a year [:

sadly atm id is kinda acting like the metallica fags - first you make some awesome cool stuff and let your fans taperecord the live shows back in the 80s and if you have become some rich douche you cut your hair and become the first band to sue napster.

and they also said wolf would in no way be like bullshit cod! 
Metallica Fags LMAO Great Post 
Seriously though. Did you really, really think this was a good idea? Really?

Was definitely worth to invest 5 minutes time to convert it.

Nothing was mapped
You don't say. 
My Eyes 
they burn orange. 
The mistake you made was to post a ripped off map on a forum frequented by people whose hobby it is to create original maps, so not only is what you've done unimpressive by their standards, it's also mildly disrespectful.

Wolfenstein is in no way like CoD. To claim otherwise would be to liken Inglourious Basterds to Saving Private Ryan. 
Inertia's Poo Is Orange Too! 
(Agent Orange) 
Dont Be Stuck Up Idiots 
This is actually one of the most played maps in q2, and since plenty of others from previous games have been converted to ql, perhaps you could cut the guy some slack.

he didn't say it was original work. hence the remake part.

get the hell over yourselves, and if you want respect (or others to treat you with it) you can earn it by not being mouthy pieces of shit and belittling someone for converting more content to a form usable in a newer game.

I guess the guys who made the generations mod were just all a bunch of rippoff artists by your "standards". 
Read up on copyright law. 
its not like he's making a profit off of this...

or releasing it under the pretense that it's his original work. 
"its not like he's making a profit off of this... "

Irrelevant. Read up on copyright law.

"or releasing it under the pretense that it's his original work."

Irrelevant. Read up on copyright law. 
Read It... 
some popular maps here admit they rip content directly from other sources yet you didn't comment there. Double standard looks like. 
No offense, Willem, but you're a fucking cunt. 

You aren't id software, and I dont see them taking up a lawsuit over a 10+ year old resource from a game that is open source now.

The map comes with the free patch of the game up to v 3.20.

Which you can apply over the free demo of q2 to make a fully working multiplayer game.


id doesn't give a shit, so why should you, and why should you be so vocal about it?

perhaps you have a bit too much free time.. 
I'm not saying that anyone is innocent or that past violations are fine and dandy - I'm simply trying to stamp out ignorance on this subject. The argument that "he isn't making money off of this" is so fucking tired at this point, I can't believe still try it. 
As is the argument that "the game is 10 years old". It's not a valid argument, and no number of "ha"s typed into a web browser will change that.

Anyway, I know better than to argue copyright laws with anonymous internet twats. 
I Still Think The Whole Thing Is Rock And Roll 
The man

Sticking it to him! 
I approved this as news, I only skimmed it and thought he'd remade the map and that was enough. I didn't realise it was a rip and didn't realise it would attract a load of anonymous abuse on the forum. Now edited. 
I am sure a proper mapped remake of Q2DM1 or indeed any other map - preferably using all the mapping quality available in QuakeLive - although of course much more preferably using original content, will be very welcome here. 
Freedom Of Speech! 
"I thought that first, im gonna sue you!"
"That was my idea, im gonna SUE YOU"

ok you can delete it 
<- For Willem 
Who invited the kindergarten? 
There's a whole shitload of not realizing going on here.

Like people not realizing that nobody gives a flying fuck about some random on the net who thinks he knows every in and out of "copyright law" and proceeds to inform everyone without ever stating a single bit of the "laws" he is supposedly drawing such conclusions from.

Who's law?

Is there some magical internet wide copyright law we should all know about now? 
Well, you obviously DO give a flying carpet fuck about it. Welcome to Func btw. 
the caring would be about him or her, not "it"

I don't care about his/her non-points and non-evidence.

I do care that he's acting like a douche for no apparent reason other than he's sick and tired of people thinking they know better than he does.

couple that with the bashing of a guy's contribution who probably had no idea that he'd generate such a "legit modder" backlash for releasing some content ripped from another game, on a board where people regularly post content that is ripped from other games, and you'll get why I'm posting.

Mappers don't all start out making their own shit from scratch. They often try converting something they like from one game to another just to learn how mapping works for a certain game.

If they all got crapped on at this point over some copyright non-issues, based on intellectual property laws in one country that are completely ludicrous, none of them would get beyond that point and make original content.

they'd probably just think modders are stuck up.

I am sure a proper mapped remake of Q2DM1

Funny you should mention that . . .

Mappers don't all start out making their own shit from scratch.

Most do? Very few mappers will convert something as their first attempt at mapping because it means having knowledge of both games as well as the more complex tools needed to make the conversion.

Word to the wise - when you're spouting transparent bullshit remember that there are people who know what you're talking about who will call you out on it. 
Developer Vs Player - A Timeless Classic! 
Just come down guys, I can understand your point of view - but I think you took it a bit to personal. Didnt mean to degrade any of your work, nor to say i got any mapping skills at all. As I said I didnt even made the q3 conversion, why I called it 'conversion of converted q2dm1', and didnt remember who made that one.
To name Willtis wasnt relevant, because everybody knows that.

I posted the map here because I think its a cool site and i thought some people might wanna have it BECAUSE it was so close to the original.

The understand the argument that it wasnt worth to convert in the first place only, if I look at it from the 'developing' perspective.

That's the problem, we got here.
Because I dont care about any textures, lighting or other fancy stuff. I guess with my cfg and picmip settings I wouldnt be able to see stuff like that anyway.

But in terms of gameplay, design and item placement the edge is such a clever made map, which most of the mp maps today are simply not.
I also prefer the original textures, because I love the old q2 look.

Its totally ok you deleted it, because this is your site and you can do whatever you want.


And when I said wolf has some similarity with the horrible CoD I was talking about the MP. For me thats what matters in a rtcw sequel.

I also attached a picture of a PigMonkey 
"not staying long..."

One can hope, but I have a feeling this won't end anytime soon. They care so little, they're posting novels. 
Tends to overreact, it's the internet.

Willem was just making an observation though.

PigMonkey for RemakeQuake . . . 
I Dont Know Man..... 
....chill out a little.

People like Willem and Megmn always go on about licenses and copyright because they have to deal with the real side of it.

Hobbyists and Quake1 modders have had huge epic battles over the issue in the past. Some of the guys here actually hate some of the other guys because they will/wont release the sources to their mods (!)

Its not an argument which is going to be resolved on this thread. There have been threads dedicated to the topic in the past which have failed to do anything except spread bad karma.

Which is, btw, what you are doing, or trying to do by flame baiting everyone here.

TBH converting a hugely popular Quake2 map to QuakeLIVE is kinda cool but I think somewhere between trying to encourage you to re-make the map from scratch, or in a format which people can actually PLAY the map online, this has gone horribly wrong.

Now there's one or more person with their feelings fondled, and animosity has sprung out of a bit of fun.

And some people are just enjoying the argument, others are participating AND enjoying it..... 
I don't care about his/her non-points

Only I may award non-points.

So far Willem has 2 for righteous anger, the 'mapper' has 4 for 'making' the thing in the first place, his cohorts have -23 for general idiocy and Sham has 17 for approving it as news and starting this whole argument.

Also, my first map was a box. Full of crates. (rly. it got 0.5/5 from Zan at MPQ) 
Some of the guys here actually hate some of the other guys because they will/wont release the sources to their mods (!)

Or, we (I?) just hate the noncooperative/non-positive-sum nature of closed-source hobbyist modding. 
Where's the league table link? 
Inertia Re: #7 
Off the Ho Chi Minh trail! 
Should we just stand around waiting to get our ears raped with repetitive crap about copyrights "because someone has to deal with the real side of them"?

I don't think so.

Someone should go back to working on the real side of them, and perhaps fuck off, instead of repeatedly jumping up and down about some shit that will never be relevant, in a thread that's now dead, thanks to people like him with a giant stick in their ass.

Is iD going to sue this guy for copyright infringement on a hastily made rip of someone elses rip of one of the maps that they freely distribute with a patch? NO?

Then shut your fucking mouth about it.

BTW, I do make maps textures and models, and I have repeatedly helped others start making them who've asked me "how can I convert this map, since I'm not any good with brushes?" 
You don't care though. Let's make that perfectly clear. 
I'm sorry for the controversy caused with this, and I'm sorry if deleting the news item is the wrong thing to do.

I don't feel as strongly as other people on this site about copyright abuse, but I do feel the resulting arguing and several very bitchy anonymous posts (NOT yours explaining your side, they are fine) are not beneficial to the site nor communication about mapping. Ideally metlslime would move this to a discussion thread and perhaps something useful could be hammered out about the role of copyright in non-profitable conversions and whether they should be promoted. 
Well The Way I See It 
Is that these guys are actually doing more good for the community in many instances than bad.

I attacked Lunaran for critiscisingone of my projects in the past, but ultimately Lunaran was a cool guy to have on the 'board, and he actually had many-a valid opinion.

We dont always have to agree on everything. The best thing is to agree to disagree 
When your regs sit around here posting negative crap all day, shitting on other's contributions and statements without evidence and instead resorting to ad hominems because they have no actual point, you can expect quite a few bitchy posts.

I doubt "willem" gives a crap about what's beneficial to your site unless it directly effects the number of people subjected to reading his mindnumbing elitist responses.


anonymous posts are not anonymous when the IP is quite visible above them.

effectively there are no anons here so why should anyone bother to register a name?

So we can have uber cool colored letters on top of the posts that about 3 people read and then shit on? 
OK, Look Man, Listen: 

Ive tried being reasonable and explaining myself here, but your just not listening. Try saying something remotely constructive, set an example of the level of conversation you are prepared to pitch.

I mean this is getting old. OK, we get it, youre pissed off, you blame Willem, you're smarter and cooler than he is and you know what everyone else is thinking. Old news.

New News:

Go away and leave unless you have something to add other than defensive abusive vulgar comments. Please. 
Lol. What A Kafuffle. 
To be honest, posting anonymously [a person would have to impress me GREATLY to make me bother memorizing/backtracking their IP] marginalizes anything the poster wanted to say. Unlucky anon(s), your hard-fought argument is ultimately worthless.

Anyway, ZLZ clearly isn't a bad person and obviously didn't intend to cause offense. 
apparently you guys can dish it out with gusto when some new mapper puts up something he spent a little time on, but you can't take a bit of criticism from an "anon" when you take 15 seconds to post some absolute tripe.

I'm not surprised.

For the record, I haven't said or implied any of the shit you just mentioned, and you're just grasping at straws and mouthstuffing to develop some semblance of a reason to post.

your comments went from "peace love and let everyone just disagree" to "fuck off" in the course of one hour, when I didn't even address a comment to you.

I think we know who is the reasonable one here, and it's not you brother.

I understand your point: Some criticism is useful. You don't seem to understand the ones I was repeatedly trying to get thru:

1. All criticism is not useful, like spirits "Your map is fugly"

2. People crapping on this guys map contribution and declaring it illegal are not doing anyone any good.

3. Copyright laws are only applicable in their country of origin if the someone who actually holds them cares about the content covered, not all over the fuckin net like some sort of all encompassing commandment from god 
I don't care if you are being honest. You're still displaying the very same sort of attitude that would lead a person to conclude that you think you are something special (iow an elitist prick)

Get the fuck over it, it's a little colorful name above a post. The content of the post is what matters not how many times you've +1'd someone else's comments to swell your postcount, or how long you've been a member at whatever forum/board/community. 
Don't be sorry, you did nothing wrong.

Im going to drink some beers now, which is always the best thing to do.

and remember 
The little colourful name above the post helps to create a broader picture of the poster and better contextualize what they're saying. First impressions are very important, both online and off. My first impressions of Ricky and Willem have both been very positive, so although I don't agree with them one hundred percent of the time, I am more willing to thoroughly read what they have to say because I have some assurance that they won't waste my time. My first impression of you is not good, as my only experience of you has been this ridiculous thread overflowing with angsty bullshit.

You clearly want your opinion to be heard and respected [otherwise why bother posting it?], yet you're completely unwilling to open yourself up to closer scrutiny by revealing anything more than an IP address. All this suggests is that you're ashamed of the rubbish you're spouting, and don't want it to come back and bite you in the arse on a future visit.

And yes, compared to you I do think I'm something special, but that's not saying a lot. 
You'r Like One Of Thoze Annoying Little Doggies 
that just yaps on in an angry fashion.

And has a brain the size of a golf ball.

Just trying to advocate a less immature response out of you. CZG? Is that you!!? 
I'm Confused... 
It's acceptable to use copyrighted textures from another game in a Q1 map, but it isn't to convert a map? 
advocating a more mature response out of someone who disagrees with you, now takes the form of telling them to "fuck off" and never come back?

You sure make a ton of sense "Ricky". Try again.

btw "fish"

Why would I be ashamed to come back here, and how would me putting a name on my posts make a difference at all, when the IP is there on every single one?

I got linked here from some other board, where people had commented that you seemed to be so far up your own asses you couldnt see daylight, and after readin this thread decided that they were absolutely right and that you seemed like the types who'd flail around stupidly if someone called you on your crap.

I was right, just like I am about you thinking that your opinion matters, and that you think you're hot shit.

I'm battin a thousand. 
Thread Of The Year 
What A Hoot 
Looks like a piece of history. Wish I'd have donloaded the bitch now. Looked pretty lame at the time. 
@ Ricky 
This thread is a great read with valid points on both sides. When scar3crow contacted Romero to get the id1 map sources released, q1edge wasn't in there but maps like dm7 were and I never read the news item or look at the screenshots.

Anyways ...

Some of the guys here actually hate some of the other guys because they will/wont release the sources to their mods

"hate" is a mighty strong word; disappointed or a feeling of deception is a better substitute.

Ricky, I hope you don't truly believe the issues some have with a certain mod are related to "that they won't release the source code."

The issues that some people have is that the mod was talked about being open source, was said it was done for the community and then AFTER all the sweet talk and soliciting the community for years for ideas for the mod CHANGED their minds with no explanation for the change of heart.

This is what I call false pretenses.

It's just a game, the people behind the mod are very helpful to the community and have done many great deeds.

And yet the idea of trying to achieve widespread support through sweet talk only to have the story turn out differently ONLY AFTER widespread support is achieved is an ignoble act.

And 2 of the most hailed "mods" of that mod are in fact actual mods: Warpspasm and that one with the sound that can be turned off and on (I can't recall the name at the moment.

What is the point of an unmoddable mod? Especially when the 2 greatest works are mods of the mod?

It isn't really an expansion pack, but a limitation pack as a result.

You get new features to play with and map with, but unlike id1 or hipnotic you LOSE the ability to make modifications.

So it is not a net positive but rather 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

As RPG once said, if you like Quake today you are a defacto supporter of Open Source because you are using a modified engine which is what makes skyboxes, enhanced limits and so forth even possible.

Enough said. I just saw a comment that was either poorly phrased or the author of the comment only has a limited understanding of the issue and the history and for once I felt chatty.

One of the guys behind the mod in question is my favorite mapper of all time. 
Limitation Pack 
Baker you are awesome. 
is clearly a fucking genius! As if he didnt mean this.

btw, aenoch has a point. Not that that means willem and the others dont. 
....I didn't. The map seemed like a bit of a grey area, but the bitchy posts didn't. 
This Is Dead, But Needs Some Clarification 
I'd guess most of us aren't angry at the copyright stuff as much as at the straight rip from another game without permission stuff. That doesn't play well in a community of creators.

Nobody would have raised a brow if it was a real remake like that shitty osp map, be it as close to the original as you want, including shitty lighting.

Shit count: 2. 
But you guys don't care. No sir, not at all. 
On A More Positive Note... 
...why doesn't someone remake Q2DM1 for offline Quakelive play?? It's a great map, Quakelive is Q3A right?? So remake it with all the Q3A graphical shizzle, suitable textures, try to incorporate some of the tricks from the original Q2DM1....see how the gameplay pans out with Q3A... 
It is not possible dus to the copyright.... :P 
Willem Honestly 
and truthfully I dont care.

I know that laws are laws, but I dont solute any flags, and sometimes laws should and can be bent, twisted and occasionally snapped.

As long as no-one gets hurt, or ripped off financially (short or long term) then I fail to see where the harm is. And if it's just a matter of principal for some people then fine, I guess I will never see eye to eye with those people (on some things).

Like when driving up a mountain pass I often drive on the wrong side of the road (when I can see that there is no oncoming traffic) so make the corners less harsh.
Is that so wrong?!!? 
I'm honestly OK with that, Ricky. Bend the laws for the purposes of fun or what have you - go for it, everyone does it. However, what I take issue with is the weak sauce justifications that these clowns often use to justify it. If they could stop that crap, I could stop breaking their balls over it. 
haven't been here for maybe half a year. I didn't see the original post, but when did func people start getting so worked up about someone making a bad quality rip?

Who cares? Some old id map for some newer id game...

It may be against the law but that's beside the point.

It's a bit like copying books that are long out of print. (Which may not be against the law but that's besides the point too.) Those who own the printing plates / rights to the material just don't bother to print any new books, even if there is demand. So they voluntarily have removed themselves from the picture.

You are providing useful services to people and not taking profit away from anyone.

Ethics is more important than the law.

There are lots of Q1 maps having Q3 textures here and there for example... I don't really know the legal issues with this and nobody in their right mind couldn't get that worked up. Mind somewhat, yes, it'd be nice if there were free textures and a completely free Quake release, with new sounds and all, and still paying some stylistic homage...

But all in all this whole rip not such a big thing. 
It Seems 
They forget that we can just scroll up the page and see where they're contradicting themselves.

On the other hand I agree with alot of what was said by most. There aren't sides in this, unless everyone has their own.

As to the discussion, there's a certain amount of leeway in modding and mapping to do what you like. You only hear about legals stepping in when it's a movie license.

Anyway, welcome to Func on behalf of the elitist name owning albino (for lack of sunlight) masses. 
Yes To The Above 
Bambuzzled said that Ethics is more important than the law.

Aaaand, art is more important the the law. But ethics are more important than art. 
I heard there was this leet pro MAPPER called zlz, who is already working really really hard on the offline QL version of q2dm1.
I think he also did the level design for the smash hit Super Noah's Ark 3D, which was even ported to the famicon.

An epic classic!

All of you guys are fucking entertaining btw! 
yeah, i think that's the guy! 
But Art Can Fuck With Ethics For Artistic Effect 
Hey Everyone! 
SM156_Pack is out! Go play it! 
Hey Everyone !!! Bis !!! 
SM156_Pack is out! Go play it!

... and moderators please close definitely this thread... 
lol, why does the Quoth source code come up in nearly every discussion? 
I wouldn't close this thread, there's too much actual discussion going on. Too bad half of it is flames, but so it goes.

I do think it would be a good idea to leave up the original thread post text and links for posterity, if there was any way to recover them (note to self: save version history of edited threads.)

And the original news item, while maybe not that interesting, isn't some sort of crime against the internet, though I guess shambler is right that it doesn't really fit into the category of things we typically post news about, such as new user-made maps and mods, new engines, new mapping tools, etc.

Actual question: since you can't play against other humans using custom quake live maps, what is this for? Just playing against bots? 
Hi Metl. 
Yeah didn't really know what to do with this one. Didn't like the flames though.

There is probably a worthy discussion topic in it's own right. 
Wasn't the main argument for converted textures in Quake1 maps that Q1 is archaic, unplayed except for us and a few scary QW players (who do far worse things to the engine imo) and generally forgotten about, so converting things _to_ it was illegal but irrelevant.

Converting content to QL is a different matter. That's a currently played game with at least some modern relevance, therefore more of an issue when illegal material for it is released.

And that's without mentioning the 100s of hours it takes to create a map using stolen textures vs script-kiddie converter fun.

Oh, and couple of points on Willem and copyright; firstly, he's got better at not mentioning this (and I'm normally the first to bite him when he does), but he works at Epic and was a senior on Gears of War 2 (among various other uber games you'll have played). Since you seem to be questioning his credentials to comment on this (which rates kinda higher than the 'content' of posts which are mostly poorly formed insults).
Secondly, you posted a link to the stolen work you created and admitted to it's creation on a server hosted in the US. Therefore, US copyright law does apply (although it also applies in most countries with international agreements anyway) and more importantly, under the DMCA legislation is a crime for which you _can_ be prosectuted internationally... US law may not be all encompassing, but neither is the internet some magically place immune from the laws of countries that host it's infrastructure.

Oh, and terrible, ugly, script-converted, badly scaled, lazy and stolen maps we mind less than moronic arguments supporting them... 
Also, I'm sure people here know some of the iD staff. Can we not just get them to send a cease and desist from either iD or their lawyers?

(you said something about not being bothered to sue you right? ;) 
sooo... willem works for one of dime-a-dozen bullshit console catering companies that put out 3rd person shitty shooters and sell them to teenagers who couldnt tell you what a good game really is.

google 'logical fallacies' before you use another 'appeal to authority' to back your arguement that somehow he's right in acting like a knowitall douche because he works at some company that makes games for kiddies.

while you're at it, try to guess how many dollars this ZLZ guy would be stealing from id by releasing a free map for their free game (QL) to be used freely in single player against bots.

next, while you're pondering, take note that I'm not the guy who made the map, and he didn't bother to even talk about your illegal copyright infringement hoohaa.

He hasn't insulted any of you, yet you are still harping on him and his 'work' like an a prick elitist modder, because you think you know so much that you dont have to bother reading the thread.

look at the IPs and, ya know, think a little in the future before you open your mouth. 
If you can't take the heat, get out of the internets or tell your little forum lackeys not to start shit by trashing people and their contributions out of some sort of mistaken belief that they are superior because they have no lives and plenty of time to make custom content for video games.

Can you not see how right off the bat, they were asking for someone to respond to their posts in an not so nice manner? 
^scream At This Wall More 
i think it almost worked that time :P 
you're not typing hard enough. 
if either of you could conjugate a sentence, or weren't self proclaimed 'modders' for a long dead video game.

does not conjugate a sentence. 
Just For The Sake Of Clarity 
...amid all the shit flinging, I don't have any particular legal beef with any of this (even though I work in the industry). I frankly just don't care enough about that aspect of it when it comes to one person screwing around with one map. I'm guessing that id has plenty of money and lawyers, should they choose to take any action, and they don't need my help.

My beef is posting a map that's a straight auto-conversion across a couple of different tool sets with no concern whatsoever paid to scale or player speed or game balance or any of those things.

I've played some Generations remakes and some of them are pretty damn cool. They look and play great because of the time and care and effort that went into the process of remaking them in a thoughtful way, and changing things that needed changing.

Put a bit more effort into making something cool and you'll find that this community is pretty quick to encourage and praise. This map took five minutes (by your own admission) and looks like a bag of boiled assholes. I'm not sure what you were expecting. 
your little forum lackeys

Quoting for irony. 

conjugate as in "to join together" not as in to dick around with the tense of a verb.

Here's the statement, in plain english this time, for the slow crowd:

I stated that they seem unable to join words together to form a sentence, and as such they seem intellectually incapable of forming a verbal assualt that would affect me.

nice try tho. 
You toughening yourself up for something really badass? Like biting into a lemon, drinking a whole pint of shandy in one go or taking piss in the neighbours garden?

What's your point here? It's not defending zlz - who didn't seem to care much about any of the negative comments his conversion got. Is it defending free use / conversion in general?

Not sure I'd buy that one either, the trolling tactics are pretty obvious. Whatever you wanted to win you probably already did. Over anyone who still cares.

I'm battling a thousand - doesn't the mournful sound of the wind and empty stadium take the fun out of that?

Why not go and look at the speedmaps in the last batch, or try commenting on something in another thread.

You might already have done that, but I don't care enough about anyone on the internet to memorise their ping.

Fun to read thread anyway. 
I Meant 
batting Since they don't play stickball where I'm from. And I can only scroll up the last 25 posts for c+p since I'm lazy and disabled most of my touchpad functions. 
Can't pretend I did more than skim the latest flaming....but I want lackeys! And minions! 
what's a lackey? 
We Are 
Hail Shambler! 
Don't nerd rage before bed time. You'll upset your tummy. Go jerk off to some anime and get a good nights sleep. 
Done and done. 
I'm suddenly receiving much more spam . . . 
Dear Mr. 
Honestly, why are you here? If you hate us so, and we suck so much, and you don't care, why are you coming back day after day just to make pointless trolls?

Not that I mind; I've got my bag of popcorn, and we're here for the long haul. 
Nobody really cares and they're just here to watch the OTHER people make asses of themselves. That's the ticket. 
I Like Making An Ass Of Myself 
I get replies and that makes me feel like someone is giving me attention.

Heh - this thread just wont DIE!!! 
I stated that they seem unable to join words together to form a sentence, and as such they seem intellectually incapable of forming a verbal assualt that would affect me.

Quoting for irony 
I Think That Was Partly Twards Me 

... its not worth the keystrokes or spell check to comment farther 
I haven't stated that I hate all of you, or that I think all of you suck at all, or that "I don't care" in general.

When I mentioned not caring it was in reference to willem continuously posting things that were not in any way useful or informative. I don't care if he continues to do so, because like the rest of you, I see his little baby blue name and just skip the crap he posts that contains no actual content or arguments.

I haven't mentioned hate once.

I do think people that trash a relative newbie modder over something as silly as a quick rip of a popular map really do suck. But, you ALL did not do that. Just a select few to whom my comments were directed, and I never said they suck. I said they were stuck up elitist pricks who seem to believe that their copious amount of free time gives them the right to put down others who dont have so much time to make original content.

To answer your question tho, you can scoll up and read the part where I mentioned that someone from another community had linked me here after having a laugh about how uptight people were being about a non-issue such as this guy making a rip of a quake map for another quake game.

I came here to observe the asshattery, and I decided, once I was here, that I would enjoy myself at the expense of certain raging dicks who are overly concerned about copyright law and who feel it is disrespectful to them that a guy liked someone elses work enough to copy it to a new media and post it for others to try out.

Essentially, I came to observe the uptight stupidity, noticed how easy it would be to generate more stupidity from the people who were posting, and decided to stir the pot for more action.

Considering the number of people claiming this to be the best thread in a while, I think I succeeded in at least infusing some life into this internet backwater, even if I didn't convince one of you to take a step back and stop crapping on this guy for making a quick rip that hurt nobody and that you didn't have to comment on in the first place.

If I'm reading your post correctly, and I believe I am, your position is:

Notice the lack of actual content in the above post and the intent of that poster.

He has nothing to add to this, and not even the nuts to come out directly and insult me now that he's run out of things to say and is still steamed that I trashed his supposed career for being nothing more than a thoughtless moneygrab that will fuck up the future of gaming if not kept in check.

Willem: Keep hiding behind your veiled insults so you can backtrack like a pussy when someone calls you on it. Maybe when you run out of those, you'll have a point to get across. 
I thought you were skipping our posts? How are you then responding to them?

Also, you're confusing time with skill.

Oh, and yeh, you totally trashed his career. How's life with your parents anyway? Tell your mum I said hi. 
What's that? I can't hear you through my money hat. 

You aren't a very good troll, but at least you're trying. The childish shot at my mother was really original.

I said: "skip the crap he posts"
not "skip ALL of your posts"

next time, try reading. 
Just a select few to whom my comments were directed, and I never said they suck. I said they were stuck up elitist pricks who seem to believe that their copious amount of free time gives them the right to put down others who dont have so much time to make original content.

My problem with this is : Everyone has every right to put down anyone and everyone, for absolutely no reason at all, justified or not. It really has nothing to do with elitism.

By saying that we can't/shouldn't put down a guy who made a quick rip of someone else's map, you're basically saying that you yourself shouldn't be shitting on people who shit on that guy, since the comment itself hurt nobody, and was in fact harmless in and of itself. Yet you went ahead and did it anyway.

Other than that, I don't really care either way. 
I don't care! <stuff> <stuff> <stuff> I really care and want the attention :( is clever and has successfully played us all and earned his e-badge in baseless arguing and forum-baiting.

All of the regs here feel thoroughly ashamed of their actions, and's ego has been sufficiently boosted that he can return to this mystical 'other forum' from whence he came and leave us all to our anguished tears.

Func has been improved and thinks he's responsible, so everybody's a winner. Hooray.

Can we talk about something less retarded now? I myself am working on a new map which I intend to release in the coming days. It's an unlit, single texture boxmap filled with a thousand explosive crates, and now that everybody here has learned their lesson in manners from, I look forward to their heaping praise upon it regardless of its quality or worth. 
"The mistake you made was to post a ripped off map on a forum frequented by people whose hobby it is to create original maps, so not only is what you've done unimpressive by their standards, it's also mildly disrespectful. "

Does this not stink of 'elitism' to you?
Who the hell has the right to feel like they've been treated disrespectfully by this guy who didn't intentionally do anything to them or even know of their standards?

I get your point tho and I agree to some degree.

Insulting people for the sake of entertaining conversation is fine and we all have the right to do so. I do it all the time.
where we may differ is here:

Doing it out of some belief that you're actually better than those others is not fine.
It's actually really lame.

The difference between what I did and what certain people here did, really lies in where the speaker was coming from.

I'm shitting on people for being obviously lame: they were shitting on a guy and his work over what amounts to nothing and acting like they were victims when in fact they were the aggressors.

Those people were shitting on this guy for doing something that he didn't even know would not live up to their 'high' standards.

I shit on them for not living up to fairly universal standards in human societies that say you shouldn't act like a dick to people over nothing. Yes I personally wasn't wronged by them, but that doesn't mean I can't tell them that they were wronging someone else and mock them for thinking they are justified in doing so. 
Well Then 
They weren't personally wronged by him, but that doesn't mean they can't tell him that he was wronging someone else and then mock him for thinking he is justified in doing so. 
For someone who doesn't care, you sure post a lot. 
text-fish stated that you're all wronged by saying that what the guy did was disrespectful to anyone who frequents this board, when in fact the guy was just uninformed and meant no disrespect. not one of you said "hey I dont feel like what he did was disrespectful".

If you interpret what the 'mapper' stated, he didn't even know he was being disrespectful, and as such there's no way he would feel justified in doing something that he didn't even realize he was doing.

Effectively, the regs here were mocking a guy and treating him disrespectfully over nothing, because no one should have been wronged (or felt that they were being treated poorly) by the act of posting a map.

It's obvious that his intent was to give you all something that he thought was of value.

What he got in return was a bunch of mean-spirited shit from people who are judgemental and who decided that his gift wasn't good enough for them, and stupidly took it as some sort of insult. 
He didn't present any work. He presented a brush for brush conversion of someone else's work. That deserves no respect or consideration. 
I do care about quake modding and people being willing to continue doing it.

When I came in here and saw people crapping on a guy over nothing, who was just trying to put forth his latest effort at adding something to the games, I was insulted and worried about the future of PC game modding if this is what it's communities foster.

I regularly assist others who show any want to learn how to make new assets for games, even if they are inexperienced.

I started making content for other's games as a young adult a year or so after duke3d was released. I've tried my hand at quake, C&C, CS, Unreal, and a few other games as well over the years.
I wrote a few games in old qbasic in elementary and middle school and created and distrubted games that I made in C++ and visual basic to my friends in high school.

In recent years, I've made from scratch and released 10 maps for quake2, and I've done some skinning, work on some mapping contests, helped with a couple of mods and a tiny bit of 3d modelling when I had the time. None of it is professional quality stuff but it's all original and I don't feel like this guy's 'work' was disrespectful to me or any other level headed modder who does this for fun and for the sake of having new cool stuff in games that they love.

As a modder myself, I think some of you give us a bad name by acting the way that you do.

I especially dislike guys who knowingly fuck up entire game genres, for profit, by shoehorning them into crappy console games for a living, and marketing them at the lowest common denominator of gamers. 
I can only assume you're directing your console insult towards me since you've mentioned it several times. I'm not sure how I personally am responsible for whatever slight you've perceived since I make levels and work on the tools a little bit. I guess I can shoulder responsibility for entire genres being, apparently, decimated because someone got chainsawed in Gears of War but I don't think it's even remotely reasonable. 
114 Posts Already 
and noone played the Hitler card. Who says we are not improving ;-) 
you and your money hat.

if you haven't seen (from within the industry no less!) the consistent degredation of various video game genres (shooters foremost) that is caused by 'AAA' console titles consisting of crappy rehashes of what PCs have done better, then you're completely oblivious.

Market trends that cause companies (like the one you work for) to repeatedly put out reskinned titles with a few new guns and no new features, are not entirely the fault of stupid consumers.

The companies themself bear responsibility because they use their superior budgets to hype these titles as the best thing since sliced bread instead of actually spending their money on innovating like indy PC developers have done for years.

I can't wait to see the new iD now that they're owned by a console kiddie catering investment group that doesn't give a shit about gaming except as a means to make profit.

Making games used to at least be a little bit about the art. Now if you want to even make a game, you can't get funding without pandering to the LCD. 
it's coming soon.

Just you wait. 
What? Sorry, my face was pressed into an oiled up set of money tits and I couldn't hear your, I'm sure, incredibly awesome insights about the games industry. 

Well, now we're talking. 
""I Came Here To Observe"" 
which usually means you don't get involved with the subjects, but you mister 208 decided to jump right in.

there's a reason why The Savage hung himself at the end of Brave New World, I'd stop before it gets that far [metaphorically of course].

I'm out of this completely now, maybe ill actually release a map someday :/ 
HAH! ok now I'm out 
Really, this is all time that could be used creating original maps. 
Porting ones from other games. 
Somebody Change The Thread Title To: 
"Random Flame War, Just for Kicks!" 
Ooh, I Got Quoted. 
Bingo bongo. 
Can't everyone please stop giving this sad little mama's boy the attention he craves for? 
This "sad little momma's boy" judged your latest map to be one of the best in the latest Q2C mapping contest, and he's had your back in the past when people thought your port of your own map from q2w wasn't exactly what "brand new map" meant in previous contest's rules.

You'll notice that I never once called someone's work fugly, and made jokes about them.

Perhaps you should not call people names when can't manage to correctly use the english language to do so.

to all:

I don't need your attention, and I post on other forums and boards regularly without some mythical need for attention being ascribed to me.

This one caught my attention in recent days.

Since here, I've been replying to actual questions, intended insults, and inquiries as opposed to making stupid halfassed trolling attempts like the majority of posters in this thread.

We can go back to this little internet backwater getting pretty much no play, and you guys circle jerking, but I'd rather you got some action around here.

Judging by the popularity of this lil thread, I'm the best thing that's happened here in a long time. 
"We can go back to this little internet backwater getting pretty much no play, and you guys circle jerking, but I'd rather you got some action around here. "

Well, there weren't any current flame wars before you showed up so I guess ... thanks?

"Perhaps you should not call people names when can't manage to correctly use the english language to do so."


But it's good that you're trying.

"Judging by the popularity of this lil thread, I'm the best thing that's happened here in a long time."

No, not attention whoring in any way. Crowd approval certainly doesn't factor into your self esteem, no sir. 

this would be what I mean by shitty trolling attempt from one of the regs here.

Blame who you will, but I'm not the one fanning the flames repeatedly.

I am engaging in discourse. This jackass is just flaming and trolling. 
Well, I reckon it's about time for you big city folks to head on home and leave us country bumpkins to our little backwater message board, right? Or have you not had enough attention yet? 
is the only thing I'm getting out of this.

..and boy is it tasty 
ya know, raping the shooter genre some more with your shitty excuse for a 3rd person action game so you can make money hats and act like a cunt to randoms on the net in your free time... 
Hey Man, You Must Have Missed This 
There are two guys named Spirit in the Quake community. Do not go personal against the one you have in mind. It would hit the wrong guy. 
So you're just a random mouthy quake modder, not the "spirit" that's actually been putting out quake maps recently?

Good to know.

What have you done for quake? I ask, because the other guy, who doesn't act like a twit, seems to be more deserving of the alias than someone who makes it look bad. 
He hosts half the current Q1 mappers and repository that he's carefully compiled of every release for the last 12 years. What do you do again?

Oh, and in regard to Well, there weren't any current flame wars before you showed up so I guess ... thanks?, I've been away for a bit, was about to start one and all... :(

Can't everyone please stop giving this sad little mama's boy the attention he craves for? 
Half The Current Q1 Mappers? 
so you're saying like 4 people right? 
Witty. Actually it's 7.

Anyway, I thought you were replying to actual questions, intended insults, and inquiries? I'm fairly sure I asked what you'd done in terms of game design (or general life achievement frankly). Answer the actual question please, and in more than vagueries about umpteen maps/models/code, actual links please.

And for someone who isn't seeking attention, you sure are checking this page a lot to see if anyone has responded to your inane postings. 3 minutes for that last one, that's almost as quick as sex lasts for you. 
Since you asked soooo nicely, here are some random screenies of some quick little maps I made back when I wasn't workin so much..

They aren't much but they're quite playable, have good flow, and they're in regular use on servers (including a few that I run) for a game that people actually still play.


The first one is a set of skins I made for the stock q2 armor models a couple months back. 
Here's The Link 
last one didn't like the forum... 
I've made some set pieces, prefabs, and brush models for others to use in their maps for a couple different games.

On occasion I'll make HUD reskins for certain shooters including q2 and warsow, and I put together some custom .pak files with high res texture replacements, model reskins, game sound replacements, and other little bits and bobs.

I'm just getting into mapping for ETQW even tho the official ones are really the only ones that get play, and if QL customs weren't such an iffy prospect, I'd be lookin at making stuff for that too.

I keep myself busy with work, a reasonably sane social life, outdoor hobbies and indoor hobbies, a girlfriend of 6 years now, and a home that eats the rest of my time keeping it up.

Even with all that, I stay on top of developments in the Quake franchise and contributing to it's communities, and I've never once heard of you. 
Have you decided who'll play you in the upcoming biopic

A Neutral Perspective 
If someone wanted to port one of my maps over to another game, I would be flattered, but ultimately I would appreciate it if he or she asked my permission first. Although my recent maps are under the GPL, it just seems polite to ask. For maps from large companies, or even small companies, it's generally not so easy as dropping an email to your friendly neighborhood mapper and asking permission. If they reply, they're probably going to say no, regardless of personal perspective. This could be for any number of reasons, not least of which is that whoever you emailed probably does not have sole authority to grant such a request, and trying to get all parties involved to come to an agreement would take too much effort. In short, the cost is greater than the payoff.

It's pretty rare, and it has possibly never happened, for a mapper to receive a cease-and-desist simply for porting a map and a few textures. Since the game developers and publishers have never told anyone to stop, I think many people take that to mean the copyright holders are implicitly giving permission to proceed. (I think this is mostly a subconscious assumption instead of a conscious decision on the part of us the mappers.)

The following is what was once explained to me, and, considering I am not an expert on anything worth caring about, I have no (convenient) way to confirm its validity. If a copyright holder were to know of someone creating an illegal derivative work from their original work, but the copyright holder did not prosecute, then they would not have a sufficiently strong case to prosecute someone else later who was violating their copyright. The ramifications are that a copyright holder is not able to selectively prosecute persons that they know to be violating their copyright--it's all or nothing. This may be why Fox is so zealous that they have their own verb, and why id software tends to be a little more don't-ask-don't-tell. Of course, this is all second- or third-hand information, and mosty speculation...

OTH, TLDR kthxbai. 
This thread needs some levity. Might I suggest a drinking problem?

My new roommate was polite enough to call me an "alcohol enthusiast" instead of an "alcoholic." I like him already. 
You're A Breath Of Fresh Air Buddy. 
love that strip. here's an old one: 
I think you just ruined this thread for many, many people. 
not one of you said "hey I dont feel like what he did was disrespectful".

I personally don't feel like what he did was disrespectful. To me, that implies some sort of awareness or intent. I have nothing against him personally--I just think it was a bad idea and a dumb thing to do.

...people who are judgemental and who decided that his gift wasn't good enough for them...

I'm going to poop in a box (it will only take five minutes) and mail it to you. I hope you enjoy it; I'm sending it with the best of intentions.

(Also, it's "judgmental", Cap'n Literacy.) 
Send The Poop Any Time Now. 
1. Never once have I claimed to be perfect or incapable of a grammatical or spelling error.

2. If you sent me a box of shit, I wouldn't verbally bash you in front of others and declare it illegal without cause, I'd just look inside, see that its not something I want and continue with my life. perhaps a few around here could try emulating this in the future.

3. It may very well be illegal to send human fecal matter in a box that isn't properly marked thru the US postal system.
It would be a biohazard.

4. Bravo for manning up and not just going with the status quo (aka swinging on willems nutsack and letting text-fish trample some ignorant newbie over a non-issue in the name of the entire community) 
the "defend it or lose it" scenario applies specifically to trademarks, I believe. 
Oh Boy 
Never once have I claimed to be perfect or incapable of a grammatical or spelling error.

Correct. You haven't. You've only questioned the legitimacy of others' posts based on such things. Hypocrisy much?

If you sent me a box of shit, I wouldn't verbally bash you in front of others...I'd just look inside, see that its not something I want and continue with my life.

Of course. I'm sure that's exactly how you'd react. Even if it were delivered during a party, and unveiled with a flourish in front of all your friends, and someone were saying "Hey, what do you think of this?"

Bottom line: People (newbies, experts, and pros alike) post maps and screens here on a daily basis and get helpful, friendly feedback. This time it didn't happen.

Concluding that we're all judgmental stuck-up assholes is, at best, oversimplification (there are a lot of us who aren't all three, at least...or at least not all the time...or...well...shit), and at worst, is missing the point entirely.

That's all from me--this is cutting into my copious free time.

Oh, and this:
an oiled up set of money tits
is awesome and made me laugh. 
Girls Girls....................... 
Has mapping really slowed down this much?
If we put this much energy into something like Rune 2 which at last count had over 5000 signatures for making the game,maybe something good would happen ya think? 
Rune 2 you say ... intriguing concept. 
This is a good preassure valve to read after pissing around with archaic editors.

I've stopped drinking, so this is as good as it gets for now.

Ah well: 
Wouldn't oiled up money tits be kinda scratchy? 
And links to the maps please, not screenshots, that proves nothing.

declare it illegal without cause

No. It's just plain illegal. 
shut up and go map 
I've Only Read Post #157 
And Vondur rules all. 
Well said, V
"Wouldn't oiled up money tits be kinda scratchy?"

No, they are smooth and luscious. 
I am mapping. Converter script is running in the background atm... 
@ Nonentity 
Go fuck yourself buddy. :)

I'm not gonna post more links for you, so you can ignore them and continue to be a dickless troll.

Lets see a screenie of something you've made.

Then, maybe, I'll link you to a .bsp 
Actually NNTT Stole The Show IIRC 
For the coagula 3 competition, with his start map!

(Hosted on Willems dedicated Quake filebase site) 
@ PJW 
"Bottom line: People (newbies, experts, and pros alike) post maps and screens here on a daily basis and get helpful, friendly feedback. This time it didn't happen."

NO, this time the exact opposite happened.

It wasn't that nothing happened as you seem to be implying.

You actually gave him shitty, meanspirited, and worthless feedback and many of you seemingly did so intentionally because he was a newb and you knew you could trash him with impunity and possibly even the support of your fellow stuck up circlejerkers.

One of you even went so far as to act like he treated you all disrespectfully by posting this map, solely because it is a rip.

you don't see the distinction between that and a simple lack of positive helpful feedback? 
"because he was a newb and you knew you could trash him with impunity"

No, he was trashed because he re-compiled an old map for a new game which takes precisely zero talent and creativity. New guys are more than welcome if they want to actually make a map. 
So you're saying that you've decided that what you consider creativity and talent are now preconditions for uploading a map somewhere for people to look at?

Perhaps there should be a disclaimer on the main page that says:

"Make sure you check out with willem so he can decide if you have enough talent and creativity to post something."

because ya know, you're the one who decides that for everyone. 
"So you're saying that you've decided that what you consider creativity and talent are now preconditions for uploading a map somewhere for people to look at? "

Yep. That's exactly what was said. Good job. 
I wanted to make sure I was hearing you correctly thru the money tits that you're undoubtedly blathering into while you work so very hard at being a complete ass. 
What's that? I couldn't hear your through my money face mask. 
Might Wanna Try Retiring That One.. 
I know you're a one trick pony and all, but seriously, try not to wear out the tiny amount of hilarity left in the only joke you know.

Got any maps on the burner? I'd love to see what your input to the quake community looks like, beyond crappy overused one-liners ofc. 
What's that? I can't hear you because I'm fucking your mother with my money condom.

I'll break out another trick once you show me that you're interested in having a conversation. At the moment, you're trolling, so this is what you get in return. Enjoy! 
Lol. Sorry, But 
you cannot seriously argue that ZLZ showed any creativity or talent in using third party, automated software to rip off someone else's rip off of a good map.

Oh, and before you intentionally read that far too literally, I'd like to clarify that I'm not DENYING you the RIGHT to argue that point, I'm just saying it would be ridiculous to do so.

I'd also like to clarify that as far as I'm aware, nobody here picked on ZLZ specifically because he's new. Plenty of new people have posted things in the past but received much more positive responses based upon the content of their post. 
I Doubt You're Very Aware Then.. 
I didn't say they picked on him specifically because he is new, and I did not imply that the rip took talent or creativity.

Nice attempt at mouthstuffing to support your non-argument. You're either not very good at this trolling thing you're trying to do, or your reading comprehension is pretty shitty.

What I implied with my statements is that they felt like they could pick on him without any negative repercussions because he is new, and because they had passed judgement that he was talentless and not creative based on a single offering that offended them. (an offering which I doubt shows the extent of his abilities) 
No, the people here will pick on anyone. Him being new had nothing to do with it. Wipe your cheeks and try again. 
This Wasn't An Attempt At Conversation? 
"Got any maps on the burner? I'd love to see what your input to the quake community looks like"

I'm legitimately trying to gauge what it is you actually do here other than post witless insults and bicker about copyright law. 
Eat shit. 
Apart From The Qonquer Mod 
He made these maps within the last year or so:
And these ones back in the olden days, when dinosaurs ruled the earth :)
And he put this website up for modders and mappers to use at their convenience:

Apart from that he hasnt done much except keep the Quake ball 'a rollin'..... 
I Too Got Involved In A Bit Of A Flame War With 
Will-Helm when I first made contact with the guy.

But he's OK, really. 
Fine Be A Troll. I Tried To Converse With You. 
I showed you some of my maps..

I even looked at the site linked in your profile, to see what kind of quaker you really are, but I saw nothing quake related. 
Your maps looked pretty decent to me BTW :)
Make an epic Q1SP and we will all love you forever. 
You mean other than the Quake level editing application on the front page? 
OH Yeah I Forget About That One 
Windows port pleeze ;) 
Thanks For The Links Ricky 
I like the layout on whiteroom. looks pretty fun to play too.

reminds me of some of the neal&bob (jester and panzer) maps that were made for q2, in monochrome or solid color textures. 
I think those were pointed out back when I did White Room. It's a cool effect, I wish more maps would do abstract themes. 
Just So Ya Know I'm Not Some Random Pretending To Make Shit.. 
since we're being slightly less caustic, here's a simple 1v1/DM map that I made for q2 with a bit of a q1 feel: 
This thread has probably wasted over a day of our collective lives.

Nobody can get you that time back.

So, STFU. 
make me. 
So finally we can put a name on you:

Hi Dervish.

Judging by your posts at that Q2 board you seem like a mostly positive and nice guy. How about we all pretend nothing happened and give you a chance to start over? 
Well Technically, Nothing Actually Happened. 
I figured I'd get outed with a map download, but w/e. :)

I'm not ashamed of anything that's been said here, so there's nothin to pretend about on my end.

for the record, I regularly get into e-arguments with people when I feel they're being lame or overly antagonistic, and I don't harbor ill will towards anyone over them. (including you guys)

they're just bits in cyberspace that make up words on a screen, so getting worked up is kinda out of the question. 
I find that attitude to be annoying but it's not worth arguing over. They're still words and words still mean things. When you type insults at someone it doesn't mean anything less than if you said it to their face - you're still insulting that person and people should feel accountable for the stuff they say online. IMO. 
Does This Ring A Bell? 
"eat shit" 
Yeah. I didn't say I was immune and I take responsbility for that. I'm not going to say that it's the internet so it doesn't matter or whatever usually gets said. At the time, I meant that. You were a fucking asshole and I was abusing you. 
Okay I Have A Solution 
We set up a turtle map 1-on-1 competition, Willem vs Dervish, the judges will be Vondur, Shambler, czg, R.P.G., myself, biff, gibbie, Pope, mad_fox and Drew. And negke. And also generic. Okay. Now, for the rules:

1.) Each map must have at least 250 killable enemies.

2.) The map must last at least 17 minutes of game time minimum.

3.) Custom texture set, hand drawn by each participant.

4.) A 20-page explanation of the theme of the map and how it extends itself to the philosophical ideas of Kant.

5.) A secret exit to another turtlemap with a different custom texture set.

6.) A robot. A kick ass robot.

Although there are judges, the winner will be decided solely by how much shit they can talk.

"3.) Custom texture set, hand drawn by each participant."

Does it count if every texture is a scanned picture of me giving the player the finger? 
Well I can see how it would be relevant to Kant ... so yes. Yes you can. 
Don't Get Me Wrong. 
I didn't mean to imply that words on screens have NO meaning, just that for me, there is an emotional disconnect when it comes to typing at people.

You're absolutely right that accountability is the same no matter what the medium.

I just don't see a point in staying angry or holding grudges about what someone says about/to me, who I will never meet and who will probably have no physical affect on my life.

Considering that it is nearly impossible to flawlessly divine the motivations of people when they type something on the 'net, it's not worth it to me to be deeply offended. 
Why Kant? I reckon Derrida tbh, he did loads of stuff on zombies for a start (automata pwn). Zwiffle makes a valid point tho...

Oh, and;

I didn't say they picked on him specifically because he is new

and many of you seemingly did so intentionally because he was a newb and you knew you could trash him with impunity

Then there was something about reading comprehension... 
It wasn't that nothing happened as you seem to be implying.

Well Technically, Nothing Actually Happened.

Go fuck yourself buddy. You're [...] not very good at this trolling thing you're trying to do 
Keep Trying Entity 
Maybe you'll snag a little fishy with that..

As you well know, anyone can take shit out of context and try to manufacture conflicts.

It takes an idiot like you to do it that poorly tho. 
You're Definately Batting Something 
It used to go 'neigh' but now it just leaks a bit more congealed blood with each smack. And raises flies.

Although . . . sad to see everything calm down and become slightly more civilised. 
Sorry To Dissapoint, But If You Want More Bullshit.. 
Type it in yourself.

While you're doing it tho, watch the spelling errors or one of these guys will definitely jump all over it, flailing madly in an attempt to start more flames. 
I thought we were past this? Are you interested in contributing meaningfully here or not? 
Heh, Had There Been Something To Get Past... 
We definitely left it in the dust a couple hours ago, the second you left a semi-neutral reply.

I'm not tryin to start anything.. just poking some fun with ijed, in a playful manner, while nonentity tries to troll me unsuccessfully.

as to the second question, haven't I already? 
While you're doing it tho, watch the spelling errors or one of these guys will definitely jump all over it, flailing madly in an attempt to start more flames.

Perhaps you should not call people names when can't manage to correctly use the english language to do so. 
Exhibit A 
notice nonentity's complete lack of any provocation to post about me, and how he continues to do so regardless of that fact.

This would be what a troll does, who thinks that if he gets you to reply, "he wins".

Sadly, he doesn't seem to realize that his behavior really comes off as him swinging from my dick, rather than him winning something. 
I Before E Except After C? 
Luckily I'm not self conscious about my IQ.

Going to add Q1 to list of mapped games? Speedmapping?

Going to watch Fox or UFC now seeing as the circus has closed :/ 
Seeing as it's national riot day here in Chile, maybe just turn on the news. 
To 'your' List 
Stop The Flaming 
Does anybody remember how to get to the secret map in Contract Revoked? 
. . . The Four Runes? 
Where Do I Get Them? 
I beaten Chthon, and now am at the place with the three teleporters. There's a link, but that website doesn't exist anymore 
Through All The Preceding Maps If I Remember Right. 
You should have them all before reaching Chthon's map.

Let me take another look though, maybe I'm thinking of another pack. 
All again - at least you end up back at the start. For me, really enjoyed finally finding the four runes. None are that difficult really, but it's a nice feeling of achievement. 
Can I Get A Screenshot Of The Rune? 
I tried to noclipping to look around in K1m1 and K1m2, and I can't find anything that looks like a rune. 
If you noclip then items inside are invisible, while outside.

Sorry, but not enough time to do a walkthrough.

All I did to confirm was redownload and check that the pack had the four reskinned runes inside. 
lol ijed spam

And did you honestly not understand that I was quoting you to highlight the hypocrisy in your comments? ofc, the entire of #205 does seem to define irony 
Aaaah, some of that is yhe1. One of you change you name colour pls 
Memorise the pings.

I promise not to change machine for the next three hours. 
There's a link, but that website doesn't exist anymore 
that a deleted item conducts so much reply.
I've been working years on maps that were reduced with 40 answers.

Let's try...
I obviously wondered how come that when I answer a toppic no one replies for weeks? 
I obviously wondered how come that when I answer a toppic no one replies for weeks?

honestly, at least in my case, because i rarely understand what you are saying. it's more than just how you translate what you're saying, but also because you sound almost poetic (but sometimes it makes absolutely no sense to me at all).

not having a go at you or anything, so sorry if this offends. 
MadFox, I often wonder if you're just joking or having your fun with us. Half of your posts are hard for me to take seriously because I think you're not serious. No offense! 
Sour Croud 
I admit my way of behaviour is kind of hard to understand, as I'm more answering in the straight way that I feel.
So often reading a post a day later sets me on my toes, god, did I wrote that?
Thereby comes it is in a language I'm not familiar with, so it is more like babelfish.

I understand this is not a understandable way of conversing,
but mostly I try to keep it enjoyable for myself as others.
Indeed chance is that people don't get where I am at.

I'm not joking to anyone, seriously. It was just something that came up to me regarding all this posts on a dismissed subject. 
your posts are enjoyable. But now that I know that you are serious, I'll have to go back and re-read some of your older posts ;-) 
That's Madfox gold. 

Your English is close to fine which is why it's confusing. It reads like it should make sense but sometimes it doesn't and I think that's why people often don't understand what you mean or think you're making a joke. :)

I give you a lot of credit for even trying - I can't communicate in anything other than English so I have a lot of respect for those with a good handle on multiple languages. 
Your control of the language is pretty good, its more the rhythm of your speech (?) that can be confusing.

The odd invented word is great though - Babelfish made me think of the Dopefish.

My Spanish is crap, but I still spend most of my time conversing in it. 
Fun Fact

Back in its pride it was famed for its hilariously bad translations. Nowadays it's gotten better I think, but everyone just uses google translate instead... 
Never Heard Of It . . . 
Really? God, I'm old. 
i used to use that thing all the time! ^_^ 
to latin then...venividifuzji! 
weird, i thought babelfish was owned by altavista. 
Yahoo Bought Altavista Long Ago still works though!! :P 
Babelfish ... 
... used to be the only method I could use to communicate with Trinca ;)

I'd translate my English into Portuguese and then back to English to message him.

By doing this, it made him feel better about his own English. 
tsk.. tsk... tsk.. bad boy :P 
If willem wasn't such a prig, this wouldn't have been such a gread read. Thanks willem! 
Being A Prig Isn't So Bad 
its being a prick is the bad one 
Baker you suck hard...

Try to write something in Portuguese with no translators! 
Trina rocks and I love him ;)

I sometimes poke fun at him in jest.

Needless to say, I have no chance writing anything in Portuguese without software. 
I knew it! Now honestly my first language at school was French... so I just had English in my 10 year of school : \

How do I suppose to write properly?

I got a mix of languages in my head :\

Portuguese, English, French, Spanish and Italian


I love you to in a non gay way noob! 
the best link of the century 
I typed all languages for madfox
and the only thing I get is...
well, you know. 
SleepwalkR feel the same thing about you

estupido filho dum corno do caralho que te foda meu grandessisimo paneleiro de merda 
Is That Supposed 
to offend me? You should try something with Nazis, seeing as I'm german. Also, I thought you had "left for good" after your last hissy fit? 
SleepwalkR I was joking...

Was just trying to say that at least I try to write English is not my fault that I didn�t had as much education in English as you and others have... just that!

Got nothing against you...

Calm down I still come here because I still play Quake.

But people keep pissing me up... did I do something wrong to you to post this?

<#244 posted by SleepwalkR [] on 2009/10/08 22:02:24>

I guess not... so why don�t you stay at your own business?
But people keep pissing me up... did I do something wrong to you to post this?

<#244 posted by SleepwalkR [] on 2009/10/08 22:02:24>

I guess not... so why don�t you stay at your own business? SleepwalkR I was joking...

Was just trying to say that at least I try to write English is not my fault that I didn�t had as much education in English as you have... just that!

Got nothing against you...

Calm down. 
Uh Huh 
But you are correct I should quit this, and start playing another game because most of the people in here don�t deserve a single brush... maybe one of these days I will quit as Distrans and other�s did because this community is worse everyday...

If we can call this a community... most of you are a bunch of frustrated people. 
I think you may be reading too much into 'Uh Huh' there...

Or maybe not 
The Trinca Who Cried Quit 
Wolf! There is a wolf! 
Heh Pissing Me Up 
i like that 0one, ima use it instead of off 
not reading too much into it ;-) 
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