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Q1SP: Lower Forecourt
Another Coagula map. Three towers and a brick base. :P

A medium-sized medieval/brick-themed space floater with two different game modes; originally started for the (not so) recent Coagula Contest #3.

Skill 0/1: regular progession mode (collecting keys, pushing buttons, that kind of stuff)
Skill 2: DMSP-like mode (sort of like a deathmatch against monsters with respawning items - try it, it's fun)

This map comes with an optional progs.dat which adds monster corpse removal (to increase the framerate on slower machines and avoid packet loss in engine ports without increased limits).
Darkplaces users must use the progs.dat to be able to play this map (as it fixes a critical incompatibility issue). Also, make sure you use a DP version dated 6-Nov-2009 or newer!

Screenshots:
http://negke.quaddicted.com/images/coag3a.jpg
http://negke.quaddicted.com/images/coag3b.jpg

Download:
http://negke.quaddicted.com/files/coag3_negke.zip

Special thanks to BJP and Preach for vital technical support.
Have fun.
Yeah Right. 
 
Gameplay Tip 
A hint: instead of running straight for the key buttons, go explore the map first in order to gear up and get an idea of the layout (so you don't end up being lost and out of weapons/ammo right away).

There are more hints (spoilers) in the text file, in case you get stuck. 
Try... 
...adding a hint to the 2nd post now, bitch. 
FUCK. 
Cunt.

Cunting fucking dongle. 
Ahahahaha @ 3 And 4 
i'll have to get back to you later on this map. i haven't even got a chance to try out tronyn's yet. :S 
Sweet 
this looks damn cool you've got a gift for original designs with id textures. Like the shub usage. 
YEAH RIGHT. 
Skill 0/1: regular progession mode (collecting keys, pushing buttons, that kind of stuff)

This is about as far from "regular progression" as Quake gets.

Very impressive map. It's about as far from standard Coagula as Quake gets too. It will probably give me nightmares tonight. The gameplay is....interesting. Perhaps too interesting... 
I Was Browsing Quaddicted Looking For A Map To Replay... 
...and you pop up with this!

I wanna be your dog. 
You'll 
Have to be face to face for that, and standing in a different place. 
2nd Screenshot Looks Great 
cant wait to get back and play this. 
Gave Up After 35 Minutes. 1 Secret+ (Secret) Key? 
Failed to kill all zombies. :( Decided to quit Quake before they finished me.

Went on to read the spoilers.

Found out I did the exact opposite of everything I was supposed to do.

This is a GREAT map, Negke, and you're a genius. Unfortunately I'm not half as smart as you...

Let's see if a nightful sleep does something positive to my grey matter.
I somehow doubt it. 
Hahahaha 
so pumped to finally play this

and yet oddly scared by everyones comments! 
A Very Fine Map 
Right from the start, I could tell this was going to be interesting. I especially applaud its non-linearity, and its respawning items. Combat was challenging on skill 2, but not to the point where it would be overly difficult. Pretty balanced.

Its easy to get lost though. Trying to find your way around the map when a lot of the areas look very similar is tough. I spent at least a minute just trying to find the palace elevator.

The final battle with the vores was very clever, I liked that.

Unfortunately, I could not find the exit to the map, and ultimately gave up on it, which left a rather bad impression on me. Still, I managed to kill every monster.

This is a very fine map. It's not one of your better works negke, but it no doubt was enjoyable.

First run demo for your convenience. http://qrf.mine.nu/~orl/misc/coag3_negke_orl.zip 
Died ! 
started a demo - will upload soon. 
Perhaps Some More Tips Are In Order 
Each tower has a different color on its side (red, yellow, blue) and its Shub disappears after the tower has been cleared. This might help for better orientation. Apart from that, the layout is basically simple: left path goes up, right one goes down (or vice versa). Yeah, I'm somewhat biased here...

The zombie fight takes place in the central building, i.e. not the towers. Keep this in mind when looking for them. Finding the barriers secret is very helpful here.

The palace elevator is at the very top of the map. After the boss fight, you have to press the button again and step on the platform.

Orl, you did quite well - didn't seem to be really lost until the end. I think skill 2 kind of assumes prior knowledge of the map (from skill 0 or 1). 
New Start Level For Coagula Contest III 
nice level. i hope that nonentity will release an updated version of his start level for coaugula contest 3 to enable playing this level together with rest of the cc3 pack. 
Great Map!!! 
Very Hard But... 
... I loved the architecture layout and details, the lightning effect are also well done.. :)
But, the gameplay makes this map very hard... I still havent't found a way to finish it without "godmoding"... or it is myself being a weak SP player... :/

Anyway, I still have to try the DM mode :)

Thanks for this great map ;) 
Negke Salutes You :) 
 
Whew! 
After 44 minutes, and a slough of quick-saves, I finally made it through!

This map proved to be more than just a little bit interesting...

Pros:

>Architecture and layout -- albeit confusing at first -- was AWESOME!

>Off-beat stuff like the Shambler columns and the light-kegs.

>A variety of gameplay pieces with puzzles, timed events, and modified monsters.

Cons:

>Ammo was very scarce at times.

>Pressing the loose brick but not finding the secret it opened.

>God-moding through the Shambler tele-frag puzzle.

>Finding the silver key but not being able to reach the lock.

>The undead keeping my weapons. :(

AUSGEZEICHNET, NEGKE!!! 
2nd Run Through. Most Frustrating... 
...But somehow sexy as hell. This map is like that girl in high school that you thought you had in the sack many times over, but still managed to escape the final retribution... ;)
Did no better this time. Did not even get to the zombie chopping bit. Still skill 1. Aw.

It's strange, how I got utterly bored at Arcanum demo for being overly frustrating but got the urge to finish this one, albeit being even MORE frustrating, at least for me... Hmmm... On to the 3rd.

Oh, btw, I love the monster with a different attack, wonder how Negke pulled that off... 
 
Oh, btw, I love the monster with a different attack, wonder how Negke pulled that off...

hmm... actually didn't notice any difference of the monsters attack... 
Not Even One? 
I saw one. Don't want to spoil the whole thing for people that have not played it yet, but I saw it after having got the gold key in the small alcove above a passageway.

BTW, 3rd attempt. Skill 1. Killed a lot of zombies. But not enough. Got fried by a stray Ogre on a ramp of stairs on my way back to the quad. Are some of them Zombies behind the secret closed doors?

:( To the 4th. 
Zombie Run 
You can still finish the map even if you fail to kill all zombies within the timelimit. I added a mercy Quad for that case - it'll be tricky though (use infighting).

It's not a bad idea to kill all regular monsters first before starting the zombie run.
There are two Quads, one at the top, another at the bottom.

The barriers don't block off any area completely. They just restrict the map's connectivity. That's why I said "explore first" - the area you mean is accessible in two (actually three) ways, and quite valuable in terms of supplies. Speaking of which, the ammo situation depends on how impatient you are - restock after each tower before proceeding to the next.

Btw. the tower monsters can also be killed by shooting, though it'll eat up a considerable amount of ammo. 
That 
does not really matter because no-one manages to do the zombies anyways. 
Skill 1 
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/coag3_negke_skill1_spy.rar

definitely it's the best release of 2009

congrats negke! 
Meh 
Thanks for the demos.
I should have have increased the zombie time even more. Though if I remember correctly, Scraggy managed to do it easily.
And maybe I shouldn't have lowered the tarbabies' health so much, either (but the Shambler's instead). spy's demo also showed a few bugs (or at least glitches I didn't notice). For example, after failing the zombie run, a "now proceed to the top" centerprint was supposed to appear, but it apparently doesn't for some reason. Oh well. 
Hi Negke 
I have recorded 2 demos (joequake-gl)
long periods of being totally lost
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/c3ngke.zip

I have stopped during the zombie thing.

I liked all the fights.
Was lost all the time.
Died once but don't know why
The architecture was very good as expected 
Did It. 
Resuming from the first game I did yesterday. The missing centerprint would certainly have led me to completion on first run.
I had to know that a true master like Negke would never, ever leave you alone with an axe in the middle of a level without hope of completing it...

GREAT. 
It Was A Spawnflag Issue 
I know it's lame, but since the release is still fresh and all, I made a quick fix (and also increased the timelimit to 4 minutes). Everyone who hasn't played the map yet, please download it again for the new version. 
Where Is The 3rd Gold Key?? 
got the one by the nailgun and the one floating in the tube, but i can't find the third one.

i looked with r_drawworld 0 and i see no gold key anywhere. (this is after 40 minutes) 
Played It... 
this was fun, and interesting, and not too hard for me (i did die a few times, but i do that in most maps so it felt typical on skill 1.)

Some notes:

- i started out using the shambler statues as a landmark, which turned out to be a big mistake and i eventually realized there were multiple locations with the same statues. Until then i was very confused!

- failed a couple times on the zombie gib section, the layout of that central area is quite confusing too. Mainly becuase it seems that there were three parts to it, and they were almost not connected (top and middle seemed to be only connected by a one-way lift, and the bottom section is only connected to the middle by a path which goes out to one of the towers.) And you have to drop down to get back down between sections. Doing it multiple times means that by the last attempt, i actually did pretty much know how to get around pretty well.

- found the secret brick, but don't know what it opened.

- no way to get down from the very top of the central section without taking damage, which kind of sucks when you have <5 health.

- never had a problem with Shub not being rendered, maybe it depends on the engine?

- this was fun and the gameplay was interesting and fresh. nice work. 
Interesting 
... Frus-strate-ting... I'm not one for Escher-esque map designs. Found half the triggers and silver key, but couldn't piece anything together.

Fitz-0.85 sdl beta kept crashing too (especially at the finale), so had to play it with no sound sometimes %< 
Played It On Hard! 
This is yet another awesome negke map!

Architecture and layout was fantastis but confusing! 8-)!

Had to quicksave a lot of times but beat the map in the end, even though I really don't know how I did it 8-)

Anyway it looked greath! I really love how you use the ID textures in new ways.

Keep them comming! 
Not A One Night Stand 
I tested this map on Hard and found it fascinating and perplexing to the max. I kept playing until I got it fully which meant spending much time learning it, finding all the secrets and eventually killing all the zombies. It is the best maze map yet and you'd never guess from such an open layout.

Trust me, spend time with it and you will be rewarded with a very unique Quake experience - plus, it looks great in those classic ID textures. 
All Secrets? 
Not a small feat.

I still have in my head the sound of that secret door opening god knows where... 
Laugh 
Do you mean from the plain brick trigger ?
I couldn't find it either
8-0 
The Silent 
what's the secret door? 
 
the silent/stevenaaus: It might have been better off staying open until found, but then again it's a very powerful secret in that it holds the SNG - and the weapons you find in the secret areas are not removed for the zombie fight. Problem is that people never look up. Otherwise they might have spotted it in another area and deduced button/door and this secret are related. spy found it (though I assume he did some prior 'research'?). Think through the wall.

metl: Layout - correct assessment. However, more paths to each part open up once you've done a tower (for you can use its teleporter and then jump down to the upper walkway) and, of course, found the barriers secret (people found the key, and the lock is clearly visible from at least two spots) - means to open it are close.
The Shub bbbox doesn't occur in Fitz, indeed.

Scraggy: That's the spirit. I wouldn't call it a maze map, though. But apparently that's how it feels to most people.

Just noclip around the central building and you'll see that it doesn't seem so confusing anymore.

necros: I assume you've found the key by now? #23

I should mention that, since there are two distinct game modes, skill 1 is like "hard" and skill 0 "normal".

I wonder if anyone finds the full moon... ;) 
Negke 
i just wonder, how to open the silver key secret, to get the LG and all that jazz, on skill 2/3 i can get it, but on skill0/1 i can't
we're need the complete secret areas walkthrough ;) 
Yes, I Meant From The Plain Brick Trigger... 
@spy: I suppose it's a door, since it sounds like a door, but might as well be a trap ora hole in the sky, since I was never able to see anything moving, when I push the button...

@Negke. Thanks for the tip... I'll stick my nose in the air... ;P 
 
spy: I'm going to do walkthrough demos soon.
For now, try this hint: go to the area below the GK tube next to the yellow (Ogre) tower and keep your eyes peeled. 
Latest Effort. 
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7020/quake00.png

Found something more than what appears there, guess I should have access to the blocked teleporters...

Now... gotta get to that lock. >:( 
Also, Negke... 
...you may be interested in knowing that the map works like a charm in stock Fruitz Of Dojo's GL ( a little HOM effect if you hit a particularly long diagonal).

Lots of maps crash it. 
At Last. 
Got them all.
I got the thunder.
And the Cheers from the Mastah!!!

And I still have to try skill 2&3... YUM! 
Nope 
can you just tell me? (or email me if you don't want to spoil it) i'm beyond trying to figure it out myself.

your map looks great, but it's very frustrating and not very fun for me.

esp. the tarbaby gimmick fight. their jumping is pretty much random, so it's not like you can really try to coax them into the crushers. i spent like 2 minutes in there. the respawning health kit made it not completely retarded, but it still wasn't very fun for me.
i liked the shambler gimmick though. 
 
It's in an alcove next to the upper teleporter (if you walk up the stairs left to the big face texture).

I agree the tarbaby fight is random, sometimes they're squished instantly, sometimes it takes ages. At least the principle is more easily understood than in the Shambler fight. 
Oh Holy Shit 
that wasn't cool. that teleporter is blocked so there's no reason to go near it and not only is the key squirreled away to the side, it's also down low enough that it might not be in you fov if you do look there. and it's pretty dark so that the key doesn't really catch your eye even if it is in your fov.

at least the key in the tube, there was a reason to look up there (it's a cool piece of brushwork that draws your eyes upward). the other key is just plain hidden
OK. Finally. 
After many frustrated attempts I manged it all.
45:10, 3/3, 88/88, Skill 0. Sorry, no demo.

I'm not posting so much even though still following everything Q1. I played a lot of cool maps recently, but this one has really something more. Beside Quake, I love puzzle games and judging by the sceenshots I jumped in that one right away. Didn't read to much of this column and tried to solved it by myself. Spent 121:10 on my first run, quicksaved a lot and finished with the RA secret only. Came back several times to find the other two secrets and the SK lock access. Went to bed last night after a lot of coffe and a slight headache. The complex connectivity of the map pushed me way to far, looking for secret triggers. This way I only found a moon...

Today's fresh approch was finally much easier and successful. Pity I didn't demoed my run for the final top combat, lol! I ran all over the place, the monsters jumped from the platform and after what must have been a brief infight, they all bounced in the void to their instant death! Probably frightened by my mighty run, ah!...

OK. This is not a map Negke, it's a full GAME by itself! Such a top quality design. It's so original, you don't feel it's plain old iD textures. The double helix central building is fantastic. Connectivity is very fluid and it's a real fun to jump your way down, once the SK is solved. The respawn/restock after each tower is a treasure trove. In such a complex map, it really increases the immersion and the full game feel. This map is more than a classic. It's a wonderful maverick, so full of ideas (as most of your maps btw). I'll sure be back on it in my wet Quake dreams! Outstanding work. Bravo and thank you for the fun!

Some notes and suggestions:

- I ran this map in BJP and last DP build on PC, but mostly in DP (UB) 05.17.2007 build (!) on MacPro 2x3.2 Quad Mac OS 10.5.8 without noticeable problem.
- 3x centerprint "You need the gold key" should be "You need a gold key".
- Centerprints " You failed/Success! - Now proceed to the top" never failed to appear.
- About the shambler and tarbaby fight in the towers: Why not allow the player to drop in and figure the mechanisms first, then manually trig the monster by picking the pent?
- Is there a reward for killing all the zombies in 4 minutes? I didn't find any difference between success and failure...
- More Puzzle Quake map like that in the future. Mmmh? Yes!

JohnXmas salutes you... 
 
necros: The key is somewhat hidden but not badly. I'm actually surprised you managed to miss this long. The teleporter is initially blocked, but since there is no floor, I expected people to at least go near it to see what's below. Then you practially can't miss it - unless the area was too dark on your setup. But then the entire map must have been overly dark. Was missing this particular key a problem for other people as well?

JohnXmas: The boss monsters slided off and telefraged each other because of a physics bug in DP. It's fixed in the 6-Nov-09 beta build (and subsequent ones), that's why I mentioned it in the news post. A 2007 build should give you some trouble in other maps (e.g. my 768 vertical one), I recommend switching to the more recent if not lastest version.
Letting the players figure out the mechanisms first - good idea.
Zombies: On skill 1, your regular weapons are removed for the zombie run. If you succeed, you get them back for the boss fight; if you fail, you have to (quad)axe the remaining monsters.
On skill 0, you keep your weapons anyway, but failure results in the removal of all ammo boxes (unproblematic if picked up enough beforehand).


Thanks for the feedback, people. I didn't expect this to be this confusing and/or frustrating. The map's layout is kind of like a DM map (you can practice by running around it a bit in DM mode), there are also a few neat trickjump spots.
If you managed to get through the standard game mode and don't have hemorrhoids yet, go vent some steam on skill 0 - it's much more straightforward. 
Err 
go vent some steam on skill 2 
Secrets :P 
I have found 2 secrets (RA and SNG). The mysterious button-door combo to the SNG secret was very disturbing. [spoiler] I have found the door only because there is a beep sound when you step on it.
I found also 2 shootable buttons and lost 30 minutes on finding the third one without success.
I know where the SK door is but don't know how to get to it.

I didn't do that much secret searching for years. Mostly without success but no frustration either.

Also still can't find my way around the map easily. 
Cool Map! 
Very fun map although I still get lost after playing it for hours! Easy and Nightmare 100% routes would be challenging to memorize.

I made a Nightmare Run demo in 0:28. http://nahkahiir.thps3.net/quake/coag3_negke_028.zip

The crappy movement in my demo is thanks to a hdd issue which generates lag spikes every second during recording. :/
That's why couple of seconds could still be shaved off.

There still secrets that I haven't found... 
Negke 
i am pissed at the map, yes, but that certainly doesn't mean i don't appreciate the imaginative and creative gameplay here.
the super-open layout is a lot of fun to run around in and the visual style is great being all stock id textures used in a completely new way which is something i'm a big fan of; (your 768 map was awesome for that).

that being said, each area could have been slightly more distinctive (heavier use of the coloured bricks instead of just on the sides of the pylons, for example). and the central area can be very confusing because it winds all around itself. some more visual cues would have been nice (otoh, more distinctive pylons would help in there too, since you can see the pylons when running around the central area). 
Walkthrough Demos For Both Game Modes (skill 1 & 2) 
For those who got stuck and those who couldn't be bothered to play the map.
http://negke.quaddicted.com/files/coag3_demos.zip (spoilers: main secrets)



NahkahiiR: Nice one. I didn't think this map was speedrun-friendly in any kind. But perhaps it's possible, after all - the ultimate chance to prove who's really pro. Skill 3: start from the yellow tower, get the RL secret, then the Quad secret, then the GA, teleport upwards, quad rj to the exit?
Skill 0: Probably won't work, but maybe someone could get to the exit by some insane grenade+Scragvore (GK) jump - mind you, there's a small hurt trigger half-way below the exit trigger. 
Necros 
I tried giving each tower a distinct color theme (front bricks and stones above the metal) at one point during beta testing, but it looked kind of odd - I didn't like it. The central area, I thought, people would eventually get to know, however roughly, after having moved through it a couple of times (i.e. after each tower).

I'd be interested in seeing how DM players approach this map, as perhaps we SP people are used to different kinds of layouts with a clear red line to follow (linearity?). Dunno. 
Added To The Quake Injector 
Too different for me. I want to love it but I can't. The quote in the readme says everything, I cannot even guess what I might have meant. Pure confusion. At some point during beta testing I kinda knew the layout but this time I had so much trouble again.

I do not like the punishment of weak players who do not finish the zombie run. 768_negke was much more for me with it's closed and close puzzling. I did not really like the main texture of this one either, but that might be 8 years of QuArK's default texture burned into my eyes, heh.

As usual exceptional brushwork and creativity. 
 
there's the obvious stuff like 'following the trail of monsters that haven't been killed yet'. i would do this every time i'd finish a pylon and then when all the monsters were dead, i'd realize i didn't know where to go.

it was only after my third play through (after dying twice) that i knew where 2/3 keys were, so that would provide a clear path up until it was time to find the last key which was hidden almost at 'secret' levels. (in fact, some secrets are easier to find because attention is usually drawn to the prize, or the usual stand-by: misaligned/non-matching texture)

this map is pretty much devoid of the standard progression cues. you finish a pylon, and you are not told where to get the next key.

if this had been your typical hub layout map, there would have been a single gold key and then gold keys at the end of each path (-1 for the final path, of course, probably killtargetted away).

there was also the concept of exploration first.
while some people have commented here that that's what they did, my initial actions in an SP game is to do everything methodically. i see a key door, i look for a key. i use the key on the key door, go wherever it opened up, and then continue from there.

the first time through, i killed the ogres, found the gold key where the scrags ambush you and fought the twin ogres. i didn't pick up all the ammo and so was dangerously low when starting the fight with the ogres.

i'll also point out that i didn't realize it was the ogre/marksman trick, so it didn't occur to me to get them to infight. (i discovered this by accident on my second play-through when i was circle strafing them and one hit the other).
i then got shat on by all the respawned monsters and had barely enough ammo since i hadn't picked up all the ammo the first time (so when they respawned, only like 2 or 3 boxes respawned). i died shortly after. (mostly because i had to axe some scrags and ogres which usually means taking at least *some* damage)
i suppose it frustrated me more than it would have because i had just finished tronyn's map which also featured a lot of axing, so i was already a little annoyed.

i think your modified progs should have had the ability to spawn in new items (not just respawn old ones) so that if you hadn't picked it all up, you'd have more to use after activating a pylon.
or, just open up ammo closets for the major caches of ammo.
you could have used the respawning for small ammo boxes, that way the punishment if you don't pick it all up before causing a respawn isn't so harsh.

in any case, these are just my thoughts on the matter and i don't think you should stop designing maps like this. keep it up, there's something great in here. 
Okay 
my demo was recorded in quoth at first because I'm dumb. this made some stuff work incorrectly.

firstly, the special monster, after finding the 'hidden' key, took the form of a grenade launcher.

other monsters were shotguns.
Instead of Shambler statues I had ... nails.
I realised the models were wierd but didn't really consider why that might be happening.

I was tired. and dumb.

The monsterfighting between ogres and ogre marksmen seems to be removed in quoth? kind of wierd, and fucked it up for me.
I died from the shambler, but when I tried again I got it immediately and was very very satisfied.
I have to agree about the tarbabies being a pain in the ass.

Looks wise, it is great - duh. love your style - the gameplay is more 'cerebral' than I usually prefer, but enjoyable in a different, and oddly compelling way.

I also found it to be a tad mazey, but it didn't bother me too much. then again I didn't make it to the zombie section everyone keeps talking about.

I still haven't finished this due to REAL LIFE, but will give it another go some time soon, and record it in vanilla quake, instead of being a dumbass.

http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/coag3_negke_dcs.zip 
Negke Rocks 
i didn't really like this. great design and style, good use of architecture and texturing. but it was too much of a mazemap. the only way to navigate the map is finding out where the monsters are that i haven't killed, otherwise i'd have had no idea where i'd been before. eventually just started noclipping around in the end because i couldn't be bothered figuring out how to get back to the big elevator at the top. and noclipped around to find the zombies, they were really quite pointless and just forced you to go back through a level you've already gone through many times over. never found the palace end, but i was only missing 3 kills so can't have missed much. the other problem was ammo - nowhere near enough.

i must admit i've never been a coagula fan. black makes such a boring architectural/scenic feature imo, but look forward to your next stuff negke, i'm sure it'll be awesome! 
Negke 
I replayed the map last night. After 2 hours of playing (skill 0 to ease my life), I finally found all the GK keys, but none of the secret.
As some other said, the architecture/layout/details are awesome, but there are too less ammo IMHO: I had to cheat by adding by myself some shells/nails/grenades in order to finish the game with more than a single axe....
BTW: axe + Quad to kill zombie is a great idea !!

Anyway, overall it was a good time, as except some cheats (I'm used to), the map is really good: I wan't more maps like this, go map !! 
 
Drew: Haha, that was dumb indeed. You should've realized right away when seeing nails instead of the Shamblers from the screenshot. Also, did you really think I would have lightning-shooting shotguns and flying grenade launchers attack you? You might expect some 'uncooperative' ammo boxes in the future, though. ;) Telefragging and Ogre infighting issues are related too.
Check your shortcuts. Don't play a map with a mod, especially Quoth2, unless it's required. I hate Quoth2's 'optimizations', it fucks up my all hacks. You don't want to know the trouble I had to go through in order to ensure backwards compatibility in my 768 map (or forwards compatibility actually)..

JPL: There is enough ammo overall, but the problem is that it's not clear one has to replenish it after each tower (don't forget the GA area). Not doing so will lead to shortages if multiple towers are activated in quick succession. Killing the tower monsters by shooting adds to this. I didn't consider all of this carefully enough. 
Minor Thing 
I haven't had chance to play properly yet since my old rig choked badly in FPS, will try giving it a run today on another machine.

But I did find the black spoiled the map some, for two reasons - a skybox with a sun or other prominent feature is useful in this sort of complex Coagula map because it gives reference to direction.

I mean it gives the player a fixed point of reference 'north'.

The other way it would have helped was in the floors, which had those thin gaps and also occasional black patches - I was subconsciously nervy about walking on some of them since they look the same as the void. 
Also 
What hacks are you using generally? We're putting in wrappers when stuff pops up, but there's nobody dedicated to it. 
Negke 
There is enough ammo overall, but the problem is that it's not clear one has to replenish it after each tower (don't forget the GA area).

Well, it is always easier for the mapper to play his map, than others has they have to discover the map, and sometimes die to progress (quicksave is your friend there)... :D
BTW, were there any beta testers for this map: it is not clear in the txt file.. I think yes, so maybe it is me and my very low SP player skill :P

Anyway, thanks a lot for this pure jewel ;) 
 
ijed: So many even I lost track of all. Customized monsters (both armorhack & built from scratch), point triggers that borrow the bbox from other entities, Shambler models, fake items for the tower monsters, backpacks, invisible medkits beneath the Quads, sound hacks, a door that takes away your weapons, countless messy interlinked entities, activatable triggers and teleporters,...

JPL: Of course there were beta testers and, yes, they also found it confusing, but some also said they slowly got the hang of it after a while. Ammo didn't seem to be a problem for them, though this might be because they learned (or instinctively did right) to pick up enough before entering another tower. IIRC, anyway. 
Well 
We've got entities that do most of what you mention, but true backwards compatability is probably impossible for such a spaghetti junction of hacks.

Played properly and can't say I'm a fan of the gameplay. It's a decent experiment but doesn't have any signposting, or so it seemed. Felt alot like DMSP - which I think was already mentioned.

I kept running in circles. Maybe I'm just spoilt by how accessible modern games tend to be. Although I do regularly play SoaSE . . . 
That Post 
Probably sounds overly critical, it's obvious that the map is a learning map and not a straight forward blast from start to finish.

I've been criticized for being too conservative, so thinking in that vein diversity with new gameplay styles are what's needed to keep the game alive. 
Negke 
OK, if beta testers thought the map was fair enough.. it's that it is just me... nevermind :P 
Nightmare Run In 0:19 
The rocket launcher really makes the run easier. Here it is - http://nahkahiir.thps3.net/quake/coag3_negke_019.zip

I'm working on the Easy 100%, my aim is about 9 minutes. 
NahkahiiR 
..go hard.

N - I still haven't played the thing properly and don't know if the shambler pillars have any other meaning, but perhaps you could have used different pillars on each tower (though I now know there's colour difference). 
 
Wow at the 19sec run. 9 minutes for Easy? A coop run should be more rewarding.

Btw. in case anyone cares, I've released the map source under GPL. If you want to check out the hacks and stuff... 
Cool 
Btw. in case anyone cares, I've released the map source under GPL. If you want to check out the hacks and stuff... 
THAT... 
Nightmare.Speedrun is unbelievable, dont you agree, everyone?
NahkahiiR, you are the destroyer of worlds, if anybody didnt notice....
Just had to post it for the gms:)
Grossartig! 
!!!1! 
This map is just awesome! Loving Q1 since day1,
but heeww! 
Ey! 
m.one, nice to meet you here... You �rschloch,hehehe. 
Played It 
had no real issue with ammo or health but it was very confusing orientation wise. Even then had no real issue till I kept running in circles during the zombie run.

Nice hacks btw, very unexpected. And whats the trick with the shambler at the 3rd pylon, I just shot him since I couldnt work it out. 
Nitin 
Telefrag. 
 
more specifically, you have to lure it onto one of the rising platforms and get him to shoot lightning (so he doesn't move) and shoot the button behind him, which raises it up into the air and opens the teleporter floor opposite which you jump into. 
 
Yeah, I had to read the Readme to beat the Shambler, and even then it took me a while. Begeezus i got a suprise when the dogs spat lightning and the scrag a voreball. 
Ah 
I did all that except jump into the teleporter and telefrag him. oh well. 
Totally Confused 
I tried this map with skill 0 to get an idea of what to do first. I ran around for a while collecting ammo/guns and killing the odd mob or two.

I went into one of the towers and hit the button (which I later found out was gold key locked) Killed some mobs and then jumped into a teleporter in the floor. Had two ogres fight each other and eventually I killed the last one standing. Some pulsating thing came down from the ceiling and the floor opened. To be honest I am not sure if that was right or wrong.

I think I completed the other two towers and then had to run around killing zombies with an axe + quad. (Had no ammo at this point from all the tower fights) For some reason I did not do it right and was told the zombies had won and I had no ammo! Went to the top and then told to fight a shambler with my axe! Not sure if this is some masochist map but seemed like a strange way to kill a shambler.

The architecture and building style is amazing, the use of the stock id textures is gorgeous. It is shame the sky is just black, it would have looked even better with a proper skybox background. I loved the attention to detail with broken walls and floor borders being angled.

I found the central layout totally confused and it had me running around in circles for ages. (Which was frustrating because of mobs constantly re-spawning) I imagine it would make an amazing MP layout but felt awkward in SP because it was circular and had many routes.

After completing one tower I had this scrag that was shooting vore seeking missiles which was crazy unfair considering there were no clues to it being different. Overall an amazing concept level but got no clue if I did anything right or wrong in it. 
Aw... Sock. 
Looks like you're choosing all the wrong starting points.

IMHO(See above) this is an amazing map, but it's definitely not your average Quake map. This is something soo different.

But, don't give up on this... It's an highly rewarding experience. 
Sock 
play gmsp3 and czg07. 
Sock 
Sounds like you did it about right and had the same problems as anyone else here. It's an experimental map after all... and fails at several levels. I should have communicated to the player what he's supposed to do and what's happening more often/in a clearer way (which, I guess, would have been possible despite the fact I hit several engine limits).
The map is indeed very open and has a DM-like layout on purpose (including DM settings + native DMSP mode), because, in my view, it feels like nonlinear gameplay should be kept from dying out these days. I shouldn't have made the SK/barriers secret so hard to find - this would have made the zombie battle easier (it's unfortunate you ran out of ammo there even on skill 0 - on skill 1, the player is forced to axe them right away).

Now, if your recent experiences haven't put you off Q1SP for good, I'd be interested in hearing your opinion (seeing a demo even) about the puzzle section in Skinny Norris - basically turning the table after MOTEOF, even though in comparison, it might not have as much thought and testing put into it. 
Sock 
do you want a list of custom maps to try from, from a quake sp newbie point of view?

My upstairs main computer is dead for the moment, but hopefully should be up and running over the weekend ((when I can hopefully also finally play your q3 map). Once I get that fixed, I can go through my custom map directory for you. 
 
underworldfan's reviews are backed up here: http://www.quakewiki.net/archives/underworld/ 
Nitin 
Nah its fine, I just wanted to see what the latest stuff was and get a better understand of what everyone is doing. (The current mappers) I will work my way back through the last 6 months of news posts and just try out stuff. 
Fair Enough 
6 mths back will make you miss some classics though (Nehahra, czg07, lunsp1 and lunsp2, apsp03, gmsp03 to name a few).

Underworldfan's Hall of Fame sections are also worth looking at for the slightly older maps. 
Lunsp2 
when did that happen? 
Didnt He Make Two Q1sp's 
or am I dreaming? 
!negke 
I wanted to play this map again and enjoy it, as the secrets i found were interesting, and the architecture. But geezus, the washed out colours identifying the three towers, you'd need to be pressing F11 (zoom) all map just to sort them out. 
@negke 
Sure I don't mind playing another Q1 map and recording a demo but I got no idea what or where is 'Skinny Norris' and how to record a demo in Q1. 
Sock. 
Ahhhh 
Yes, got it. I will try and play that today and record a demo. Looks awesome from the screenshot. :) 
Re: #91 
I Wonder What I'm Thinking Of 
will check my quake dir when the computer is fixed.

btw, zombie knight looks awesome. 
Crazy Skill Norris 
Wow that is hard on skill 0, died after 6 minutes and the pacing felt all wrong to me. Before I had a chance to explore there were ogres, enforcers and rocket grunts trying to kill me and I had no room to move around! Coupled with a tiny elevator shaft that had AI spawning on my head, it was crazy. I will try again later and post in the right thread. 
Don't Bother, Nitin. 
I that one hasn't been released, yet.
But it's "actively in development".

http://lunaran.com/

Can't wait. 
Nitin 
Are you possibly thinking of lun's Teleporter Madness speedmap?

smqe08d_lun.bsp. 
Sock 
See the link the silent posted and refer to the text file for instructions on how to install and run the map.
You can record a demo from the console with 'record demoname mapname'. Type 'stop' to finish the recording. If you want to start the demo at a later point (only during the puzzles bit, for example) or plan on dying, use the demo resume trick I posted in the SM160 thread.

And in case your frustration meter hits the red, I posted a walkthrough demo in the release thread. 
Oh 
Apparently you already got it to run and all. Missed your post. 
Ontopic 
Hard to say anything that hasn't been said by anyone yet. The visuals are damned good - this map actually establishes a theme, unlike Skinny Norris which felt bland and random (sorry). Didn't care much for the tower puzzles, trying to find the secrets felt more rewarding than actually beating the level - eventually I managed to get 3/3 and the full moon (would have been nice to know that one of the "triggers" has to be touched, rather than shot...)

Liked the small hacks that were going on everywhere. In DMSP, did you make the final Vores non-solid, or am I just seeing things?

Unrelated: What I'd like to see is a map which looks like a regular map (normal textures/architecture/etc) but then throws all sorts of devious hacks at the player, and then the theme changes to something weird and messed up, etc. Starts off as normal but is deceptive. 
 
Yes, the Vores are nonsolid. They have to be killed with splash damage. 
I Thought 
skinny Norris was pretty amazing.
more 'cute' than lower forecourt, but fuck, it wasn't bland at all! 
Maybe Bland Wasn't The Right Word 
but I still didn't like the "use every id1 texture" theme. 
Sock. 
Negke is to standard Quake mapping what....I dunno, free jazz is to standard pop music (but in a good way). 
Hehe 
There always has to be someone to try the new stuff, and take the blame. 
Feedback 
I think everyone is misunderstanding my feedback, I did enjoyed the map and the experimental gameplay, but I did not know if I was doing anything right or not. The feedback from the map to me as a player felt constrained (maybe because of the Q1 engine and center text) and the visuals needed greater emphasis on what was going on.

I can understand player confusion because I ran into exactly the same problems with my own Q3 experimental map. Visual and gameplay have to be linked correctly when trying to convey something new or experimental. Visuals need to reinforce what the gameplay is trying to achieve and this is the hardest thing to do. 
 
(Nehahra, czg07, lunsp1 and lunsp2, apsp03, gmsp03 to name a few).

+ bastion + marcher 
Just Realised 
there's no apsp03 either, just apsp02.

rj, theres heaps, I left out many. 
Now I Went Through This Map. 
Skill 1

The towers a little confused in the beginning, but later learned to understand, seeing how they work within. I had to run from tower to tower to find a need. But it was not tedious.

When it was over, tried to fly with noclip around central tower, but it still remains for me a difficult and confusing.

Ammos were few, but almost always enough. The fact that it was necessary to recruit them after each tower, I realized at once. The only difficulty was shambler in one of the towers. I ran out of ammo and had to kill him with an ax. But it turned out.
The secret to looking after you brick a long time by the sound. So far not thought to jump up the ramp next to the brick.
Use the silver key failed - did not know how. It also did not find how to open a secret megahealth. For the latter, I found only one blue bricks somewhere near the ceiling, but others have not seen.

Recovered from the save only once, when the time was not able to kill all the zombies. But the second time was quicker, and saw that the bottom is also a Quad.

Architecture amazing, a lot of interesting ideas. Excellent work. I admire, like yours, and all other maps.

Thank you very much 
 
Thanks. Glad to hear you didn't find it overly frustrating in the end. Try the alternative game mode on skill 2 to get back into the right mindset with some mindless fragging if you like.

Even if you fail the zombie challenge, the map can still be finished; you'll just have to quad-axe the three end monsters - it's not that hard. The silver key secret makes the zombie run easier as well as general progression. I thought it was quite unique in this respect, but it's too difficult to find (basically a 2-in-1 secret) which I regret a lot. If you want to see how it's done, check out the walkthrough demo or video.

Lower Foucault ?! 
Ok, I Will Try 
 
Skill 2 
Almost passed. It was quite difficult, but interesting. Unable to go because I did not take the secret with the RL. And when I was at the top, I do not understand how to kill Vores.

But I liked the skill 2. Amazing map! Thank you again 
Btw 
why is it Lower Forecourt - lower relative to what? Will we see Higher or Upper Forecourt some day? 
 
Most Coagula-style maps are either floaters or towers reaching up into space. This one turns it upside down, so the title was supposed to suggest the map was part of a much bigger structure, a huge palace in the void, with forecourts on several sides. I don't have plans to map that, but who knows. Cogula4 event??

Btw. sorry for the dick moves of putting SNG and RL in secret areas, especially ones that are hard to find or close so quickly. 
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