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QuakeLive.
Better than Q3A in the following ways:

Easily customisable to change some of the shitness of Q3A: remove headbob, remove gunbob, centre weapon etc etc.

Finally fixed fucking damage feedback so it actually works.

Hud isn't as terrible.

The movement feel doesn't seem quite as bad, still a bit lacking in air control but not as vague and floaty as before.

New maps are mostly really good, ZtnDM3, Asylum, thingy Towers especially.

It's also, unlike Q3A, definitely worth the money :)

However bouncing items are still shitty, and some player skins are almost invisible in more highly textured maps.

Anyway. I am on as Shamblerrr. I suck, so if anyone else does, befriend me and let's suck together ^_~
Cool Thread 
I have invited you to be my freind so that we can blow the shit up out of eachother :)

Also there are servers in Maidenhead so I will prob get a semi reasonable ping playing against you.......

Maybe.

Fucking Virgin Broadband is throttling my Steam downloads to 60KB/s. I think im gonna go back to Sky, and get Sky TV too! :)
I know its the ISP because I just took my box to another connection (BT) and its now d/loading at 760KB/s.

Anyway QuakeLIVE is usually OK if utorrent aint running, so it should be cool 
Zwiffle (what Else?) 
Friended a bunch a peeps on here already, and lost horribly to Vondur a while ago in a 1v1. Old man's got some skills he does. 
Good Point Mine Is RickyT23 :) 
 
So Much For Sham "I Don't Play Deathmatch" Bler, Eh 
I haven't played QL for months. Didn't know there're still some of you guys active. Might give it try, though I'll probably suck hardest. 
Sounds Like A Blo-jo Contest... 
...But I'm diving in tonight! 
Negke 
I'd prefer Q4 coop or something....but for a quick blast of fun, it's okay, yah know...? 
 
Alright Then 
 
Hmm 
BeUnlimited

Can't recommend them enough if you're in the UK 
Spirit. 
That sounds wank. There's a balance to be had between good stylistic appeal, and efficient playing graphics, and a load of homogenous bright green skins is nowhere near that balance (and nor is flat textures...). 
Heh. 
I played against Spirit. Didn't lose too bad ;).

I've realised something else that's a distinct improvement over Q3A - the bot skills are a lot more sensible. In Q3A itself an increase in bot skill meant only two things: disproportionate increase in accuracy and disproportionate increase in reaction speed. In Q3Live the skill increase is more balanced, the bots become noticably more agile and have better movement tactics (not following around corners / through teles etc). Which is nice. They're still cunts tho. 
:o 
your view on the game is severely limited, from your description. It's indeed worse than vq3 from my POV. But then again, it's fine for ffa because the changes are kinda subtle. 
Bummer. 
I can't play the sucker on WIN2k. 
 
Bots. Didn't find them to be better than in Q3A. They are just as predictable, and sometimes stupid.
Most FFA servers have too many player slots in relation to the maps' sizes.
Still fun for some time. A func_teamDM might be nice. 
Yeah! 
Btw if someone has weird lags and the mouse locks, set your processor to a fixed speed.

If you are on Linux and get funky characters ingame (and get kicked for that), then you have a more modern libpng than QL uses: LD_PRELOAD="/usr/lib/libpng12.so" /usr/bin/firefox 
Megmn 
Suck my sac. I'm not an idiot. I can make a sound judgement on a lot of gameplay aspects. 
QL 
I am Vonduur there, let's be friends! 
ROFL 
I'd love to see megAmAn blow the fuck out of Shamblerrrrr on Quake Live.

You guys tell me when you're playing, name a time and date, and I'll watch and heckle :D 
Why? 
The quality of a game is irrespective of the skill of a person playing it.

E.g. Quake DM is brilliant whether you're a n00b like me or whether you're Thresh. 
Anyway. 
Less beef.

Play with schpirit, negke and Zwiffle so far. Neggers and I are well matched!

The new maps are good. Ummm. Yeah. 
Hmm 
very tempted to give this a try... although i haven't played q3a in ooh.. 7-8 years?

i'll add people if i can get the hang of it 
I Am 
dnvAgathon 
Right.. 
been dicking around with the practice levels. i can't do that bunny jump hall thing :(

then crash went like 5-0 up on me in the tutorial ;/

name is 'isoterra' if anyone wants to feel better about themselves 
You Have To 
do small rj's in the bunny hall part to get to nightmatre skill, that's how i did it

im meTch ingame btw 
/me 
Definitely adds rj to his friends ;)

I cheated in the bunny hall by rocket jumping through it. I can't really bunny tho. 
Yeah... 
i used rockets to get through that expert gate. I don't think it's cheating, if you can exploit the game to get through the gate, then you are probably an "expert." 
Func_generic 
But let me practice a bit first ;) 
Hah No. 
That's what rj said and suddenly he's kick our (lowly) asses ;) 
 
I don't play it very often but I can sometimes be found wandering aimlessly around the maps looking at insignificant details. In anyways, add me.. i'm 'fresho' 
Thats What I Do :O 
have you seen the hole in dreddworkz? 
I'm Ericw 
Just played a little, and I suck too, so sign me up :-)

I like how easy it is to get playing with people of a similar skill level, makes QL a nice 'relax for a few minutes' type of game. The maps are nice to look at as well. 
This Game Is Annoying 
Glad to see the match making works for you, it certainly does not for me. Apparently I was quite good once upon a time, so now in most of the 'skill matched' games I find, the players beat the crap out of me. Sure, I suck (blame all the slow and autoaim modern games) and, yes, there surely are countless higher-ranked players who play on lower-skill servers, but even despite that there still seems to be something off here. They also seem to have changed something about weapon balance and movement compared to Q3A.

So, we could have some Func games every now and then - certainly more enjoyable than being owned by random internet twats. 
Hmm 
1) nntt

2) What negke says. This is what I get for playing MOBA games for years...

( 3)Someone remind me to rant about the LoL payment system at some point when less tired, I think it's the way forward for indie developers/online games, however, I'm sure some of you will think it the spawn of the devil) 
LoL System? 
 
Is LoL A Shmack At WoW? 
because that's the vibrations i'm getting from it

GET ON THE BUS! 
TBH 
I'm getting pretty good value for what I paid for Q3L... 
 
I am pretty sure it is below your usual rate for getting your fine man-cheeks handled by professionals. 
I Can Go Whole Matches 
not getting killed once in ffa, i just avoid people and can maneuver and dance well.

Ive also noticed there's not much shadow cover in ql :/ 
Shadow Cover In A Quake Deathmatch Game 
Ahahahahhahahaha. You do realize that probably over 90% of the playerbase forces fullbright glowing green skins on enemy models, right? 
Stop Having A Life, You Pricks! 
Join.

Spirit seems to be only one playing regularly, but he's a tier above me and mostly playing at odd times. 
 
If I had the time I whould prefer Quakeworld insted of Quakelive :)

are you up to negke? 
Negke. 
Playing SC2 instead :S 
 
Trinca: no.

Shambler: Hell of a devolution? 
Strafejumping Tutorial For Negke 
If Anyone Wants To Frag Me 
i'm P_u_L_S_a_R there 
 
Spirit: Thanks. I think I've seen that one before?! Learning that shit seems like so much work...

Pulsar: Yeah, cool.

ShadoW: Wtf, another new map?! How do you do that - your production rate is crazy. 
Negke 
Wtf, another new map?! How do you do that - your production rate is crazy.

I guess he has absolutly no life beside Quake mapping: either jobless or student :P 
 
Way to twist my compliment into something negative. 
Wot ?? 
It is absolutely not negative... though :P

ShadoW to elaborate ;) 
 
lol Negke :). I have full time job (game industry), diploma of Technical University, and also I work on some other commercial games projects right now :).

Mapping for QL is is easy and I can do that fast, plus you don't know how long it took to create this map. 
I Knew He Was A Pro 
You could just tell..... 
 
I would never ever called myself a "Pro" :). 
Well... 
if you get paid to do it, you're a professional. :P 
FUCK YOU SCHBIRID 
 
FUCK YOU SCHBIRID 
 
Yes Please 
 
Glad We Have This Settled 
 
Spirit 
Is it just me or has the number of secondary-account tierslummer motherfuckers increased exponentially over the last few weeks/months? 
 
No idea what you actually mean. My games are usually quite balanced any nice (unless I get crowded by those bloody foreigners!).


One thing is really stupid, you cannot have QuakeLive on two different machines with different configs. At least not out of the box. I tried to play on my netbook and ruined my desktop settings with that. "Cloud"-based sync is so convenient! 
Err 
Just use 2 config files. Problem solved. 
Negke 
QLPP12 & Free Premium Week 
http://www.quakelive.com/#!news/site_news/24434

New update / premium pack with five new game modes, e.g Domination (like CP in TF2), and maps. Additionally, all premium content (including FreezeTag) is unlocked for standard players the whole week which should make for some good activity on the servers and more varied matches.

Let's get some games on, yo. 
 
Spirit 
should post that on the official Quake facebook group!!! 
In Case Someone Didn't Notice 
QL is a standalone client now, no longer running as a browser plugin. Apparently this makes it a smoother, possibly even faster experience overall. Most obvious downside is that Linux and Mac support have been dropped and Spirit cries into his pillow.

Haven't tried it yet, and not sure what to think of it tbh. I kind of liked the idea of it being a browser game (of sorts), seemed like better accessibility. I guess it would be nice if they were to add it to Steam so as to attract new players, but no idea if it's possible like that or worth considering on their part. But whatever is necessary to maintain the game for a while longer...

In other news, they've just unlocked the Start A Match gametypes for everyone which means Pro users can now create customized games for standard users as well. 
Quake Live Is Now Way Better IMO 
I have no problems getting it to work on ye olde surface pro, had loads of probs before. Though it sucks that linux and mac players are no longer able to join the fun. 
Tried It Earlier Today 
I can force AA and AF, yay!
Now all it needs is a LAN mode. 
Spirit 
That is the only way to play Q3A/QL. 
QuakeLive Is Coming To Steam! 
News

About time, I'd say. This should bring an influx of new players with a wide variety of skill levels similar to when the open beta started, and hopefully some renewed interest on my (and your) part. For a while anyway. Though I'm a little bit worried about the "big gameplay changes" they mention - hopefully nothing to dumb down the game and its core mechanics or skill requirements. 
 
Sounds good, I enjoy having a bash on Quake Live every now and then. It's good to sharpen those twitch skills. 
But Still Subscription Based :( 
I would gladly pay for it, but one time. Not 36 euros a year. This is no MMO and even those go F2P. 
 
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php?37858

Quake Live has had an update!

Introduced Loadouts in select modes; allowing players to select one Primary Weapon (hmg, rl, lg, rg) and one Secondary Weapon (sg, gl, pg, mg).
Added global Ammo Packs, in lieu of weapon specific ammo, where each pack grants you a small amount of ammo for each weapon in your inventory.
Reduced ammo respawn time from 40 seconds to 10 seconds.


So now weapon and ammo pickups are essentially obsolete as level design tools. There's no more directing flow by organizing your architecture and items to encourage and breed combat scenarios - it's just big rooms and jump pads, and everyone spawns with the railgun (or, you know, whatever weapon they choose, which is going to be the railgun). Why even have level designers?

Items have taller pickup collision boxes, so that players will not miss items as they jump over them.

This is good. it's also something arQon added to CPMA literally more than a decade ago.

Players may now hold jump to continuously jump.
Players may now hold forward and jump to 'bunny hop', allowing them to slowly gain up to 2x their base movement speed.


Presented without comment. 
I Still Don't Know How To Bunnyhop So This Is Good With Me 
 
RIP Quake Live. 
We feel that these elements overall help bring Quake one step closer to being a modern shooter, while still holding true to our roots of remaining an incredibly fast paced old school shooter.

Mission accomplished id. I fear for Doom 4 now. 
Heh 
now

Yeah, not sure what this will mean for QL, doesn't sound good to me at all. But then I only play CA.

czg: It's when your bottom lifts in a circular forward motion. I am sure you know it. 
 
Preselected weapons and generic ammo?

They just broke every single level made to date.

And no new ones will be able rise above mediocrity level of play quality.

Do they even play games any more? 
 
I get the impression that Quake Live is like a laboratory for them. They try stuff out and see what sticks. 
As Far As I Understand It 
The loadout thing is what you start with by default, and you'll still be able to pick up other weapons in the levels? Universal ammo sounds rather wild tho.

I might be wrong and I don't really care, I haven't played q3 in any serious manner since q3dm17 when q3test came out.

Spritit; do u mean fuckin' ;-) 
Errrr.... 
Added global Ammo Packs, in lieu of weapon specific ammo, where each pack grants you a small amount of ammo for each weapon in your inventory.
Reduced ammo respawn time from 40 seconds to 10 seconds.


Shitting fuck that sounds exceptionally terrible for all the obvious reasons. In addition to making item placement semi-redundant, it's going to make weapon and ammo management as a player semi-redundant.

Off the top of my head I can't think of a single hypothetical reason how this could any benefits to gameplay whilst it being an utterly awful idea is blindly obvious. Why the hell did they do it??

Loadouts doesn't sound that terrible for maybe CTF, but a bloody awful idea if it strays into any other modes.

Auto-bunny-jumping sounds like pointless dumbing down - and I say this as someone who never learnt to bunny jump. I accept it as a SKILL I've never tried to learn and would not want it handed to me on a plate for no reason. 
One More Reason To Let My Account Expire When That Email Comes Again.. 
 
Laboratory 
Hmm still seems broken though, like not thought through at all.

Like:

"let's play poker but remove all the clubs, spades and hearts from the pack."

Maybe they are wanting to strip the game down to 0 and then add and remove stuff to and from it though.

But if players stop playing because its not as fun any more then they've basically burnt down the laboratory by making a mistake with the first experiment... 
 
The bunny jumping is limited, you are still better if you can do it properly.

They made maps look worse with new unnecessary textures and effects (WOWOWOWOMG GODRAYS!!).

New machine gun is a OP hitscan midrange for people who can't handle LG.

new layout is ugly flat poop and confusing 
Lol 
at those changes. Why not just give everyone unlimited ammo? 
Quake 3 Is Dead To Me Now 
The little trust that was left in Id is now completely gone. Time to move on. 
 
It's still fun to me and there is nothing better. 
 
Some of the changes sound acceptable, but loadout and generic ammo seems absolutely inane. Why sacrifice a core charactistic of the game just to cater to a different player base (with uncertain outcome even). 
 
I'm reconciling this with the words "in certain game modes." I haven't looked (bc why would i do research, it's friday) but I imagine that this is for a kind of butt-simple introductory mode for new players, where it's intentional that you don't have to have the maps pre-memorized to be competitive.

Quake is kind of harsh that way otherwise. Item control is part of the game, so if you don't know where the items are, your introductory experience becomes "spawn and die a lot until you learn the map." I guess we're blind to that harshness because we're used to it, or we all just pull the console down and run around a new MP map empty gawping at the art before we play it maybe. I know I've had similar experiences in other games (join, die a fuckload without knowing why, get irritated, quickly stop being in the mood for this, decide to come back some other time, never come back).


Auto-bunnyhopping though I mean what the fuck 
Interesting 
We were talking about this the other day in regards to teaching kids video games development.

Basically how we've become so good at designing interfaces that the damn kids aren't used to having to learn how to use them.

This extrapolates to all technology, especially games.

Finding the key by having to you know, explore a level and look at things must seem arcane to the damn kids of today who are used to NPC characters telling them where to go, world map overlays with pulsing ! points on them and so on.

The results of such designs are both good and bad. Some fucking suck (Doom3 was a parody of Doom1 level design if you strip away the graphics) whilst others were pretty cool (Deadspace line on the floor thing).

The mentality of the damn kid of today is that they should be expected to learn the absolute bare minimum before being able to play.

And, looking at it objectively, they're exactly right.

Finally, some images:
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/image/hardware/Apple-TV-3/remote.jpg
http://community.amd.com/servlet/JiveServlet/showImage/38-1893-1190/10_4_23_21_PM.jpg

My 4 year old daughter has no problem at all using the first one, while many adults (most?) still have problems with the second one. 
 
There's definitely a conflation between usability and fun, in modern game dev. I have been guilty of thinking this way for a long time, and maybe it's because a lot of times, usability is a valid goal.

But the negative side of treating usability as king, is the elimination of a lot of player activities that can be fun -- such as drawing a map or writing down clues. Player aids like that are sometimes necessary (getting truly stuck is definitely not fun) but they are best when they are opt-in. That's one of the positive aspects of the Dead Space locator line -- it was invisible until the player pressed pressed a button to activate it.

Also, the final state of evolution for modern game tutorials seems to be a tightly scripted first chapter of game which has most of the player's abilities locked out, so that you can literally only do one thing at each juncture, to make sure you learn it, and so that the player can't do any experimentation at their own pace and on their own terms. Randomly trying shit can also be fun, as long as the core interactions of the game give rich feedback (c.f. "juiciness".) 
 
I also think that the idea of increasing usability is a noble one but I think that most developers take the lazy route - aka the glowing path or giant HUD arrow or whatever.

I think with a carefully designed system, you could ensure the player doesn't get lost but also feels like they still have a good amount of freedom.

Proper design in this area would result in players feeling like they "figured it out" and "solved" the levels without being aware they were led the entire time.

The lazy "we have to ship in 3 months!" solution is the glowing path on the floor.

We need to start leaning towards the subtle. 
This Has Been Posted A Million Times 
But so what:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM

Learning through play.

He also did a new one not so long ago about zelda, but not relevant to the discussion.

For the good or bad solutions I think the problem isn't so much that the developers are lazy, more that nobody cares enough about the usability during the development and as such the big ugly band aid is slapped on at the last minute.

The ship in three months panic :)

The reason they don't care is because subtle solutions are, well, subtle. It's not immediately obvious if something is working, and it only takes one person in the decision making process to get cold feet and the whole thing collapses like a domino run. 
Also 
I really liked the locator line.

It reminded me of playing Doom64 in map mode, somehow.

In a clever way it made me explore more - I knew where to go, and that I wouldn't get lost, so I wanted to see what was down that other route, how the level interconnected and so on.

I did feel that the levels could have been more intentionally labyrinthine to take advantage of this effect more. 
 
Interesting, this is straying into the territory of a blog post I've got mostly written that I haven't posted. I was going to do a post mortem on my way-old QBOARD.WAD level and it grew into a comparison of Doom and Quake level design centered on how much the player is or is not led by his nose.

I should finish that I guess. 
A New Blog Post Would Be Good 
The BLOPS one is peak pretentiousness. 
 
the item timers are actually fun for random tdm 
On The Other Hand... 
The rest of the changes blow dick in FFA (nb I only play botmatch BUT aside from the quality of opponents it's the same fucking game / ruined game).

Starting weapons make it a ridiculous spam-fest, right off the bat it's rockets and plasma and bullshit flying everywhere. No build-up while players find weapons, much less variety in fighting due to that.

Universal ammo packs make it even worse as you're always replenishing your starting weapon.

Movement around the map is partially discouraged as there's less need to hunt weapons and ammo. It makes the whole thing feel like Rocket Arena on a larger scale.

These are all obvious reasons why this is a terrible idea that makes the gameplay worse, and yup that's exactly how it happens.

Item timers are so-so. They're a noob-friendly pussy option but they don't really ruin the actual combat.

Same with the digits for how much damage you've done.

The new menus and screens are really fucking bland compared to the originals. 
 
"We feel that these elements overall help bring Quake one step closer to being a modern shooter, while still holding true to our roots of remaining an incredibly fast paced old school shooter. "

They got confused, it's modern shooters that have to be brought closer to Quake, not the contrary 
Qwayklivuh Is Deaduh 
 
Hohly Fucke 
 
Played For A Bit. 
Most of the changes are pretty bad on paper, but could have worked fine if they weren't applied all at once. Spawning with the Machine Gun only always feels like shit, so I don't mind the loadouts that much - it's almost like a perverse form of Team Fortress with 16 classes.

However little balance was left, though, got completely thrown out of the window with making all ammo unified and making weapons respawn practically instantly. Sure, make me spawn with a RL and low ammo if you want to... but don't immediately let me get from 5 rockets to 25!

Item timers - every "pro" player used to count the next respawn time on their own. I don't mind this becoming global.

The new announcer couldn't sound any more bored.

A sound playing as feedback for when you get a kill isn't a bad idea - but why did it have to be a cartoony ding?!

I want a Doom Live now. 
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