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I quite like the combat, and the 'terror' as you evade and destroy. Ever see 28 days later? Or play L4D?
I tackled loads of zombies just with the "oh so easy to jump to" secret RL, until I realised they could be killed by any weapon ;)
Played this a while ago, here are some thoughts.
The outdoor bit is really the highlight - great sense of place. Enjoyed running around there and just looking. The indoor bit: - Several of the corridor intersections looked mostly the same; that was a bit confusing. - A lot of basically flat floors that could have used some more attention. - Waterwheel had no function besides being there? I half expected it to have some meaning. If it did, I never found out. Weapons and enemies: - as has been pointed out, Hexen 2 enemies didn't blend in too well - golem stomp attack was a bit annoying eventually, since it takes control away from the player too much - being thrown in the air constantly, similar criticism as towards the Doom 3 habit of messing with the player's view when hit by imps - new weapons didn't really do much for me, Quake 2 looking shotgun seemed a little out of place - got cornered by fast zombies once, in some staircase, left me zero chance to fight my way out of there, I kept thinking there should be a way to sort of knock them back or sth like that - boss fight was creative and seemed beatable, although I didn't make it for some reason. Didn't know this was a remake of a map from another game. Never played Oblivion. Anyway, good job with this level, it felt fresh. and died. Repeatedly. Could be the hour. Anyway, I recorded the entire embarrassing experience. If you want to see those, I'll upload them.
Ran the map on "a version" of RMQ, followed the directions, and it ran fine. -I got stuck on some corners between faces in the terrain area. -It was hard to tell what was activated by my button presses. -gb mentioned the golem stomp attack. It may be WoW raids influencing my behavior here, but I already knew to jump into the air when a large guy empties lots of force into the ground. It was very appropriate. Seems deceptively weak at first until combined with faster monsters. -New monsters were awesome. -Architecture was glorious. -I enjoyed the improved pathing AI very much. -Never seemed to notice the quad damage until after everyone was dead. -I "accidentally" woke the boss character during the initial visit to the start map, not knowing he was a boss. Not sure if this was meant to be possible. -Rotating doors / gears / other things were fascinating to behold, but seemed out of place. -Confused about the little grenades attached to the ceiling. Anyway, the best thing to say about a map is... this is a map I plan to play -again.- sorry about all the deaths! i'd like to see your demo if it's all right.
-I got stuck on some corners between faces in the terrain area. that is just an unfortunate part about quake. it's partially the engine's fault and partially the way qbsp creates the player collision hull during compile. one of the things that is actually completely BETTER about darkplaces is that player collision on the world is fixed. i'd like to see other engines try to tackle that problem too. -It was hard to tell what was activated by my button presses. this is surprising as all the buttons activate doors right next to them. the only exception is the button that opens the secret room with the GL which is a ways back and intentional. otoh, all the doors that are opened by buttons are disguised as 'secret' walls so that might be why. -gb mentioned the golem stomp attack. It may be WoW raids influencing my behavior here, but I already knew to jump into the air when a large guy empties lots of force into the ground. It was very appropriate. Seems deceptively weak at first until combined with faster monsters. about half of the demos i watched had people figuring out to jump, so i was pretty happy with that. i like the sort of extra 'skill' of timing a jump. like shambler dancing. -Never seemed to notice the quad damage until after everyone was dead. yeah... i know what you mean. :P i guess i should have spent a little more time on powerup placement. good for speed runners though when you know where they are and can plan ahead, but not great for a first run. -I "accidentally" woke the boss character during the initial visit to the start map, not knowing he was a boss. Not sure if this was meant to be possible. totally intentional! :) i wanted the open world feel and i didn't want to cram boss combat into a locked room. if you lead the boss away from the altar, he just resets back to full health. -Confused about the little grenades attached to the ceiling. the ayleid ruins in oblivion often have a lot of traps in them. usually things like swinging ball+chain attached to the ceiling, gas chambers, floors that give way to spiked pits and such. i wanted to capture that a little but ran out of brushes to really integrate a lot of them. ball+chain i think is doable but i'd need to work on that damn dynamic rope code which is pretty nuts and i wasn't in the mood for that. :P over here:
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/ne_ruins_demo_raptore1.rar For posterity the exact version of RMQ I used can be found here(Thanks, gb!): http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/tools/windows/engines/rmqengine_20110126.zip Re: Necros Haven't read how to make quotes in func_ yet. The button presses: This may be one of those criticisms that was a singular experience and can be safely ignored. The demo should reveal more to you about my experience than I can think to say. One thing I am curious to ask though, is this. On those doors of yours that have the three vertical stone segments that slowly fall to the floor, some of them have the activation button placed right on the door. I seem to remember that buttons can only go in one direction. So where is the button going? You could give it the appearance of being a button, when it is actually a train that recedes into the door and then drops into the floor, or maybe have it recede all the way back to the far wall fast enough that it disappears before the door opens, but that's kind of a mess. The quad damage: The powerup is blue, and the map is blue... perhaps that is why it's being missed. about the buttons:
i added the ability to bind entities to other entities, so the buttons are bound to the door and when the door moves down, it takes the button with it. :) about quad damage: it's more than they are not ideally placed. most of the time they are in areas before a large fight, but the fights usually take time to get going so the powerup runs out by the time you'd actually use it. if you know what's coming, you can wait and then nab it after the event starts, but that's not a reasonable thing to expect on a first run. custom doom maps tend to work powerups into the actual gameplay and that's something i think i should focus a bit on next time. edit: watched your demo. you made me laugh a bit because every time you hit a button to open a door, you seem to turn at exactly the wrong angle to not see it. so it's not that it wasn't obvious, but you had just bad luck to look in the wrong direction. :P thanks for uploading that! it's always fun watching demos. i added the ability to bind entities to other entities, so the buttons are bound to the door and when the door moves down, it takes the button with it. :)
Glorious. The power of QuakeC... I'm going to experiment with employing things like fraps and youtube for sharing my playthroughs. There has got to be a better way. I did get the idea that I had to jump, but since you can't control how long you're in the air, and since several golems might be stomping, you might still get juggled, in spite of jumping like a kangaroo.
The blob guys were coming from the jars, and it was the golems that could open the jars with their 'break-dancing.' The map was almost over before this occurred to me.
just played the final version (finally!) and was even more amazed than the earlier version. quaddicted review forthcoming at some point. necros, I think we can all agree you're the best at Q1SP. my only reservation is the underground map layout is a bit arbitrary, but if they were actually building a dungeon/excavating in a mountain it would be that way... more an issue related to my obsession with "logical indoor/outdoor layouts." The atmosphere was amazing... a strong sense of being THERE. new monsters and gameplay stuff was great. you used hexen2 stuff and showed what a potential it had. the golems were really cool, it's too bad hexen 2's gameplay sucked, but good to know you rescued hexen2 content from eternal lameness!
personally i didn't catch that all hilarious thoughts/opinions about ne_ruins , it's pretty boring in terms of gameplay/construction
i've wouldn't be never compare it with the kinn's levels for example.... and you're criticizing it for not being up to the standards of Marcher?
kind of fucking harsh, I think. looking forward to the review!
and yeah, i know exactly what you mean by arbitrary. but i found that's kind of just my 'style' you know? i stopped fighting it and just let it go now. :) there's no fucking harsh, just a random thought,
there's much better work from necros for example his last or woteva, with a dragging corpse , forgot the name of map about "boring construction" _ everything is looking the fucking same , believe me , ive been playing oblivion for ages there's no fucking harsh, just a random thought I want to coop this but the client keeps crashing.
Server is: Client is: Both Archlinux, QuakeSpasm 0.85.4. The client segfaults once the server is running the ne_ruins.bsp map. FITZQUAKE 0.85 SERVER (30781 CRC) Ruins Using protocol 666 Warning: 564 models exceeds standard limit of 256. Warning: 327 sounds exceeds standard limit of 256. Warning: 56662 faces exceeds standard limit of 32767. Warning: 64740 marksurfaces exceeds standard limit of 32767. Warning: 58594 clipnodes exceeds standard limit of 32767. --> client to server keepalive Segmentation fault Am I missing something obvious? i don't know if the progs works with coop, tbh...
there are some graphical stuff that will definitely malfunction in multiplayer, but there are changes to some fundamental things (or ways i chose to do things) that may explode if there are more than 1 client in the map. :S actually on further thought, i'm not sure how accurate my previous post was. i was thinking about a different progs where i had ripped out most of the multiplayer code, but the ruins code wasn't the same one.
there is still going to be some problems though, as i do distinctly recall making coding choices based on SP only. i tried to account for multiplayer, but i never tested any of it. if an engine person can weigh in, that'd help. they're not too complicated. you give func_movewalls a touch function that takes in the player's velocity. then you send that info over to the rotater and drop it into a think function. then just decay that angular momentum over time to simulate friction.
if you want to get cute, you can give func_movewalls health and make them shootable, then give them a th_pain to also dump velocity into the rotater to let you shoot doors open. it only gets complicated for non-y-axis doors that need to be affected by gravity, because gravity will not just rotate it in a linear fashion, but will depend on how perpendicular to the gravity vector it is. you can use a dot product for that, but i haven't really gotten them to look realistic yet. i want to make a draw bridge the player can push to cover a gap but getting the bounce to look right is a pain, because a real physical object would absorb some of that bouncing into the object itself (vibration). Sorry cant help it, since Iv only recently played Marcher, after reading all the praise but
ne_ruins , it's pretty boring in terms of gameplay/construction i've wouldn't be never compare it with the kinn's levels for example.. is a ridiculous statement. Marcher is constructed in a beaten to death plain Quake3-gothic style, which looks very boring if you played Q3 for some time. The texture set and style been overused both in stock and custom maps, and been done better. Visual details got sacrificed to the size of the map, which I understand from the technical point, but unfortunately it results in a bland look. Even the insides of the castle - flat walls gothic_block all over the place, nothing pretty. Now back to the ne_ruin: the mapper also borrowed the visual style from another well known game but went all the way to recreate it in the best way possible using uncommon advanced techniques to achieve great level of details without having to split the map into smaller parts. The texture and geometry detailing rivals or even surpasses the original despite the old engine. Excellent usage of map models for both visuals and gameplay. It's the most detail-rich quake map I've seen (I'd be thankful if you show me something that is on the same level). Atmosphere and sense of place is quite strong as well. The only criticism one could give it is for the very uniform look of the indoor areas due to the strong teal lighting/fog. Gameplay wise regular monster placement and setups might be nothing special, but it's compensated by the novelty and quality of the enemies (in gameplay sense). But more remarkable is that this mod has excellent boss battles by not just custom map standards but pro-made games standards. Good use of patterns and escalating action stages. Best boss-battle quake mod ever? Make it two best bosses even. Criticism? Healing pools make the finale too easy -_o So yeah, don't compare it to Marcher, its in a class of its own. I always preferred Bastion of the Underworld to Marcher.
And this map stands in a class of its own. The above explanation of the swing gate style door had me nearly post earlier, but my post, after lots of thought was something along the lines of "Wagghhh! :)" Necros, I think you'll like what Gb has manged with rotating objects - RMQ demo sometime soon.
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