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New Q1SP: Something Wicked This Way Comes

Download (36 MB):

Quaddicted page (thanks Spirit and negke!):

This oft-delayed release began as one of the maps to be included in last year's Unforgiven episode, but it soon expanded way beyond that. The end result could not even fit into the normal expanded BSP format, and therefore in order to play this map you MUST use an engine that supports the BSP2 format. Right now this is only the RMQ Engine, which is available at (other engines support earlier versions of BSP2 or will support BSP2 in the future, but don't work right now).

The main map is based on scraps by Tyrann and Necros. It features lots of exploration and 30 secrets. The latest version of Drake is required and included. System requirements, as usual, are high, due to lots of monsters and large open areas.

Please see the readme for more information and the much-deserved credits for everyone who made it possible for me to finish and release this map.
I believe two engines support bsp2, and they aren't even compatible implementations, sadly (darkplaces has an altered spec for it, for some reason.)

Since the DP version has no released maps yet, i guess this is now the standard? 
I have got so much Q1SP to play now.....

This looks amazing from the screenshots - good to see someone else abusing the BSP2 format. I totally want to build this massive mid-evil city some time.

The RMQEngine is also awesome, basically Fitz on anabolic steroids. It has some other awesome features like widescreen perspective correction (looks exactly as it would in standard persp. but with the sides expanded).

But DUDE!!! These maps look purely satanic and evil and massive and awesome. 
This Start Map Must Be The Most Awesome Start Map Ever 
Surprisingly the first map wasn't as hard as I expected it to on skill 1, I didn't die and I never fell in any real hard position. I got 12/30 secrets (so many!) and almost all the kills in 57 minutes. Jaw-dropping architecture on both the start map and the main map. This cavern is absolutely huge and the fortress is really well-made and impressive. I absolutely loved the way the Night Gaunts appeared, and the Scrag massacre with the quad was pretty neat.

I keep getting my ass brutally kicked on the last map on skill 1 though. Too many monster types thrown at once gets me slaughtered. I'm definitely not a huge fan of the big-bad rocket launcher that takes all your screen, and the way the weapons are laid-out while scrolling for them is pretty annoying (I accidentally fired two crossbow bolts because it is so close to the SSG) but the rest is cool and I like that Death Knight on steroids. Very very impressive so far. 
RMQEngine-Win32 -game wicked
progs/k_spike.mdl not found

added a model named it k_spike and it ran 
not the mod related

everytime i run rmqeng i got some borked colors

and how to fixit? 
looks like the weapon model is trying to use the wrong texture (a player texture?) -- not sure what causes this. It may be a lingering bug from fitzquake. 
Re: Skacky 
so far so good! I'm glad you liked the start map - it's totally owed to ijed who convinced me to save and improve it when the first version was crap. Glad you liked the gaunt appearance, and got the quad secret - I hope everyone gets that one! Also happy you didn't get lost in the main map. Despite my efforts I expect many still will.
As for the ending, as usual it might be too hard; there are extra items accessible but my main hope was that the map was short enough that having to try again wouldn't be totally infuriating.

re: mechtech
Not sure how this happened, I'll ask PM. 
the same bug has been happened with some other models, trees, hellknight-boss

i'm using the latest version from icculus 
So how do I disable interpolation in the engine? It ignores the Fitzquake cvars for some demented reason and there is no readme to be found on the entire internet. 
Why did negke let you keep all those fullbright pixels... 
But these days I only download Quake maps that have gigabyte file sizes and don't run in any available engine. 
This Is Very Awesome 
but it runs quite slowly on my laptop, as the frame rate is very low. Tried to reduce resolution from 1280*720 to 360*200, but to no avail, so it seems to be CPU related, however, my CPU is i7-2630QM, a quad core processor, so that shouldn't be the cause. Wondering what is going wrong? 
Those Screenshots Look Unbelievable 
Is there any way to just download the RMQ engine and nothing else? 
same question 
RMQ Engine Can Be Downloaded At 
This might be an RMQ issue, but are grenades falling through the world for anyone else? Both my grenades and Ogre grenades seem to go through faces instead of bouncing.

Map is nuts so far :) 30 secrets help me god! :) 
It's an RMQ/bsp2 engine issue and it's mentioned in the readme. May be fixed in some future version. 
I Knew It. 
Too subtle and low key for me. I prefer a bit more spectacle in my Quake maps these days. 
Fall out? First I've heard of that... 
I downloaded the latest version of the RMX engine from SVN and all grenades don't bounce and fall through the world (everywhere). Sort of makes grenade ogres easy but frustrating for the player because the Grenade Launcher has limited use now. It seems to be consist everywhere and the grenade do the crazy sound thing and fall into the void. 
The grenade bug is many months old.

FTEQW supports both versions of BSP2 and probably has the grenade bug fixed... it's not Fitzquake though, if that bothers you.

note: with FTE, don't bother *not* downloading the "experimental" version.

You can force a netquake-like behaviour in FTE by setting / experimenting with these:

sv_nomsec 2

cl_nopred 1

You might have to set sv_bigcoords 1 as well to enable crazy map aka BSP2 support. Not sure if that's autodetected.

I'm pretty sure that at least DirectQ also supports BSP2. Not sure if QuakeForge, Proquake and Qrack actually implemented it yet, last I heard there was some interest though. I think QuakeForge might have it. That means several engines support it, actually.

Congrats on the release Tronyn! Keep making cool stuff. 
Ah Right, FTE 
Can someone who hasn't yet played these maps try them with FTE instead, then? To see if it works without problems.
DirectQ does have BSP2 support, but when I tested the map, I encountered a major clipping bug that broke everything - which is why it's currently not listed as an alternative to run this release. 
This is the version I used to test it:
I believe it was the one that came with the rmq demo last year. 
I downloaded FTE ( ) and it was fine, Grenades bounce perfectly. 
�Something Wicked is big. You just won�t believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it�s a long way down the road to the chemist�s, but that�s just peanuts to Something Wicked.� 
Quakespasm Support ? 
I didn't played this new mod yet (which looks really awesome), but can I play it with Quakespasm ? And Quoth ? 
Jesus Christ. 
this looks spectacular.

Shit ! 
So if I understand this correctly, this mod is condemned to never be played on a Mac ?

WTF ! 
Well some Quoth content is included in the new version of Drake that comes with the maps. I don't know much about macs, is Quakespasm the only engine that runs on macs? I wouldn't say never, it looks like the bsp2 format will be supported by more engines in the future; I was basically told at Inside3d, release the map and more support will follow. If it wasn't for bsp2, I wouldn't be able to compile these maps _at_all.

re: Spirit: probably because he was concerned with all the _other_ issues - heh.

re: Kingold: I'm guessing it's your graphics card... also in my experience, laptops aren't all that great for gaming. 
I played some with the latest rmq engine I have on Linux (from some demo I guess) and have noticed no weirdness with grenades.

FTEQW runs on MacOS of course.

I hope this is compiled in the format the engine masters finally agreed on. BSP2, not 2PSB if I recall correctly. I'll ask about that in #qc.

Back to the map itself:

I played a bit more than getting the GK. Never been much of a "tronyn-style" fan. So far this feels great in scale and awe but much too random to me. Great architecture but no sense of purpose. The tech weapons feel completely out of place and silly! My first impression were nail ogres wildly firing at me at such distance that I could almost not see them, gah... To this I much prefer stock vanilla Quake arsenal and enemies. I enjoy close combat more than walking a lot through empty space.

The scale of the start map was jaw dropping. I can understand how the rmq team got lost with these new possibilities. But in the end it does not actually feel/play different so far. And at least the start map also was very plain (probably possible in BSP29 as well?).

I'll wait with my judgement until I finished it. :D 
Ok, this is compiled in the "old" format. 2PSB (the first 4 bytes). RMQ people, does RMQe support BSP2? How can Tronyn compile to that?

I assume the Quakeforge tools support BSP2 but lighting might be different maybe.

It would be great if we get this first non-rmq map in the "proper final" new format as soon as possible so we do not end up with more compromises and backward compatibility in the future! 
Playing Through 
halfway thru 1st map, according to monster count. So great - youv'e done so much with that scrap! 
How do you run FTEQW on a Mac ?

From the web site, I don't see anything related to Mac : 
FTEQW is a bit messy, try from 
This is the up to the minute compile tools and engine: 
The Source 
Is available on request :) 
Mac version though, sorry. 
Mac Version ? 
So is there a Mac version or not ? Where ? 
that version doesn thave the grenade bug? 
...through the start map OK, chose skill 0 tower as is my want, into first level and find shoot button under bridge which opens grate in water, swim into newly opened area, instakill. Start again, don't open grate, find quake symbol button that opens small sluice gate bars, go into newly opened section, swim down, instakill. ? No other form of progression seems to be available to me. 
instakill? not monsters shoot you and kill you quickly, but instakill?
that HAS to be a bug. what engine are you running? 
the version that was current for SPdemo3 (winter11). I'll re-download and install/setup the engine and see if it makes a difference. 
I Noticed Some Issues With Water Movement In RMQ 
though nothing as bad as this

through the grate bars there's only a bit of swimming before arriving at some docks and dry advancement; worst case you could noclip over the water - do all the instakill deaths occur underwater? 
that was fucking amazing.
No problems, very smooth.

Skill 1 was about right for me as a skill 2 player. The end was not as impossible as most of yhour other endings, though it did take more than a few tries! I underused some powerful weapons at times - particularly the ice bow. It *is* sometimes a pain when you have like 20 weapons.

Found 1/2 secrets in the end map, found 20/30 in the main one. much more satisfying than arcdemo2 - plus it gives me yet another reason to delve into this epic map some time down the road.

So so fucking good. Thanks Tronyn. 
zomggg another one? still have than, sock and now this pack to play... will have a awesome Quake holidays this year :)

thanks all and demos will come! 
The Version 
I posted is the most up to date version of the engine that exists - no grenade bug.

Insta-gib in water is a new one on me as well.

There is no mac version of the engine because nobody on the team had a mac... 
Raising The Bar Again 
Great map. Only problem was confusion getting the correct RMQ engine. I got the full 2011 demo for the engine. Might as well include the needed engine in the distro, only a few more megs of files. Now if the coders could come up with an engine with smooth level transition. 
I Kind Of Lucked Out 
on already using the apparently really obscure RMQ engine as my main engine 
Doesn't Start In Quakespasm 0.85.7 (via Quake Injector) 
Error given:

"Mod_LoadBrushModel: maps/wickedstart.bsp has wrong version number (1112756274 should be 29)"

Looks very interesting. I want to play this map. Can anyone please tell me what I'm missinh? 
I don't think Quakespasm supports the format this map is compiled in, BSP2. You need to use the RMQ Engine or FTEQW; see earlier posts in this thread or the Quaddicted page.

Sorry, the coders are still figuring out BSP2. 
Sorry Tronyn 
I should have sent you the most recent version as well... 
played again - now there's a weird error: when I enter the water the water texture itself covers my whole screen, so I can't see anything. It's really strange. Only seems to happen in Wicked, and didn't happen before - not sure what's different now. 
The only BSP2-capable engine that has a Mac version, to my knowledge, is Darkplaces, but afaik it doesn't accept 2PSB. The format change was actually LH's request.

The FTE engine Makefile contains the following:

#linux->macosx (FTE_TARGET=macosx) or (FTE_TARGET=macosx_x86) Contact Moodles for crosscompiler, only works with Mac OSX 10.4 Tiger.

Mac people, consider contacting Moodles and pestering him for a recent Mac binary? 
Grenade bugs happens for me with ijed's most recent release. 
Try with a Quake installation without any other third party content. Only id1 with pak0.pak and pak1.pak plus the wicked directory. 
However, the Grenade bug didn't happen with the rmq engine that came with the rmqdemo 3 
Screenshots Looks Amazing, 
I really like the fog. GJ! 
Ignoring the first map (great structures but too big just to wander through), the last map (arenas don't interest me), and the engine issues, let's focus on Wicked.

Pretty damn impressive and pretty damn good fun for a ridiculously big monster-filled map. It never felt boring nor overly hordey. The opening shortcuts were useful but there could have been more of them in places.

I got through in 99 minutes, 667 kills and 21 secrets, first time. Nearly died revisiting the outside area when I got careless, but managed to hold it together.

Some of the architecture was brilliant, as were some of the secrets and some of the scale - I didn;t mind it being overscaled as there is enough action to keep it interesting. I appreciate that it is made of map scraps but I would have liked more harmony between the areas, either in designs or details. Some of the latter were confusing and it was hard to tell what was details, or doors, or potential secrets. It's also a bit unrefined in that aspect, but I guess that is partly a function of the scraps.

Generally the gameplay was good throughout. The Drake monsters and weapons are kinda MEH apart from the imps which are cool, but equally they are functional and innoffensive. The Quoth monsters were used pretty well - challenging but not overused. I liked the utility of both the pent and quad returning to the outside area.

I had fun (more than on many 600+ monster maps!) and it was well worth scrapping together and making :) 
This map looks so damn good.

I think I might just play it :) 
Will This Map Be Quakespasm Compatible? 
I installed FTEQW for this map. It displayed better graphics, but controls were terrible (I think it has different inner variables, my configuration didn't apply to it). Also it was somehow different. It wasn't even showing blood; you can't make sure if you hit a monster or not.

Will this map be playable in Quakespasm soon? If yes, I will be patiently waiting for it... 
Mac RemakeQuake Engine: 
That Should Be News^^^ 
Big news. 
I played half through Wicked with this build. No grenade bug. But ugly black squares instead of explosions, huge sound stutters and fps slowdowns in wide spaces and, worse of all: quickload once Quake has been quit crashes to desktop. I assume my MacPro 2x3.2 Quad Core is ok but this build is far from optimized, the least I can say.

I was lured enough to play further, so I simply installed the last RMQ engine (grenade bugged) on XP Bootcamp, same machine. All I did was to load a copy of the Mac quicksave and play more until I finally switched to the RMQ engine of rmqdemo 3 to avoid the grenade bug. From there, everything ran smooth til the end.

Probably a fresh Mac build with recent resources might work... 
I Admire Your Persistence 
heh, sorry to put everyone through this, but I guess it had to happen sooner or later. 
Only Thing I Can Say In The End, Tronyn 
I won't spoil it more for those who keep waiting for the best moment or setup to play it, but my first wandering across this masterpiece (142:28, 7/30, 323/361 easy) was such a reward for every second of struggle to get the best config. Thank you for this awesome Quake chunk. Now I'll have to go back for a secret hunt... 
I played most of RMQ on this Macbook Pro using the SleepWalkR build. I did have stalls occasionally but not the other problems you mentioned.

Macbook Pros use ATI and MH used a lot of OpenGL 2.0 and ARB extensions (maybe with fall-backs?) like with the lightmaps using some fancy way of updating.

I was just pointing out the Mac exists. If I recall I had similar stalls on my humble Windows 7 laptop running the RMQ engine that has an ATI mobility. 

That's all I can say. 
Tronyn, You Are A Mapping Beast 
So far I am about 200 monsters in, but I'm taking a break. These extreme large maps usually grind me down a bit, and I didn't manage to complete Warpspasm for that reason. I think I'll go back to this later though, because what I saw so far was really awesome. Lots of fun combats, great layout, awesome architecture and generally great design throughout.

Those axe guys are cunts though. I hate them. 
This is awesome, it runs hella smooth too which I wasn't expecting on my archaic laptop...
Also I love love love the new axe guy who throws axes and chops you up, I laughed hard! Is this specific to this mod or is it part of something else?? 
Fantastic map tronyn there it goes my first and second demo :p almost did it in the second :)

If you have pacience to see the demos :) they are a little fun :p always with a rope in my neck! 
Wow. The Most Epic Map In A A While (ever?) 
This map isn't just HUGE, but it somehow managed to be fun the entire time I was playing it. Such a crazy variety of enemies (particularly long range sniping enemies) and weapons seemed like it would get annoying, but it wasn't at all, and the complexity of the map was made quite manageable by all the shortcuts that opened up all over the place.

It's fairly relentless, but you know when you are going to trigger a horde, so you can prepare beforehand in most cases.

Anyway, I don't think I died, though I was close on many occasions.
664/690 (skill 2), 10/30 (wasn't trying very hard), 83 min

It was a lot of fun. Thanks, Tronyn. 
Oh And... 
I think the reason I didn't die was not that I am an awesome player, but more that I am a crafty bastard and was luring hordes into choke points in order to cut them down quickly with a few rockets. The dragons are a piece of cake when you cheese them to death by luring them into a doorway :) 
Actually I did die once or twice near the start. I think I was the victim of axemen. Usually I quit if I die and haven't saved recently in big maps like this, butluckily I only had 1 minute or so to replay, so it was no big deal.

Anyway, I'll stop spamming the thread. Awesome map. 
I didn't realise there was another (INSANELY FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE) map afterwards. Avoiding the spawn whilst some fucking wizard is shooting all manner of crap is not easy.

Needless to say, I died plenty of times, but after having died a whole bunch of times you figure out how to get the items without rocket jumping and you realise that the megahealth respawns fairly often, so it's not impossible after all... 103/106 :/ 
Hey Than 
Thanks for the feedback, here and on Quaddicted as well.
This was one of my most tested maps, and for that reason I think the gameplay ended up being smoother and more sophisticated than usual for me. The end arena was maybe too hard though. I had more areas built (which will be used in something else) for that map, but I decided anyone who got through wicked.bsp would be pretty exhausted so a concise end map was a better choice.
Also, I submitted new reviews to Spirit a couple days after I release this map, so Round the U-Bend review should be up soon - definitely an interesting take on the map, though Geophobia might be my favourite remake of yours. Cheers. 
I did enjoy the end, it's just it was a different kind of enjoyment to the main map. Dying over and over isn't much fun, but I'd saved just before dropping into the final arena, and the feeling that I could do it was there all the time, so it was one of those one more go type of maps. Quite enjoyable. wicked.bsp was amazing though. Insanely huge and grueling but so much fun. Seems crazy that I didn't really get lost in a map that huge. I think there was one point where I wasn't sure how to enter the rune towers, but I guess it was kind of obvious, and I had fun fighting the droles and ogres from a distance with my rocket launcher. Respawning items were a BIG help :) 
Oh My 
this is one of the best releases i have ever played, all hyperbole aside.

the start map provided the same kind of heart-in-mouth jawdropping moments as marcher, neh2m2 & mexx9b did back in their respective eras. the scale was mindblowing. i picked easy skill after looking at the monster counts in the readme; i'm not normally a fan of your excessive horde-based gameplay if i'm being honest. i actually started playing unforgiven on skill 1 before this and quit halfway through the first map, but i digress...

the main map has a wonderfully complex interconnecting layout yet due to the distinctive large open areas it was easy to keep bearings; particularly when i passed armour/health i didn't need only to track them back down later on. the shortcuts were really well executed. the verticality aspect was insane; i must have fallen the entire height of the quake grid when jumping off the building during the dragon ambush at the end

play-wise, was a decent, balanced challenge despite the skill level. favourite point was the quad secret followed by the scrag hordes :) long range combat with the RL was generally awesome, once i finally picked it up. my only gripe was with the monsters' increased sight distance; it was definitely needed but is perhaps a little *too* increased, given i was occasionally shot from the opposite side of the main cavern when i couldn't even see the enemy through the fog! minor inconvenience though, since the arrows didn't do that much damage

last map certainly kept up in terms of impressive scale. final arena was impossibly hard the first time round since i missed the RA behind the baron's throne.. when i killed him the first time i was immediately dumped into the water along with one of the hellknights; that was another awesome moment :) but ultimately led to me dying. i beat the final battle at the third attempt and only THEN noticed the buttons on the ceiling, which presumably lowered those big pillars. alas. still a fitting end, i can deal with that level of intensity when it's reserved for the finale!

all in all... epic. definitely worthy of inclusion in the pantheon of all time quake greats. great job! 
huh... i NEVER noticed those buttons. I would just rocket jump up to the cross, then rocket jump to the other 3 pillars (cross makes you invulnerable to explosions). 
Oh And 
i did have an issue with the start map but it is more engine related. when looking down from the top of the skill towers, liquid is not obscured by the fog, which spoilt the vibe a bit. in terms of RMQe cvars i'm aware of r_slimefog and r_lavafog but neither seemed to have any effect 
these maps are HARD. every time i try play I keep dying in the slime in the start map. need totry when I'm sober 
Thank You! 
Thank you, Tronyn!

For those who use the latest experimental revision of RMQ (3736) and have the granade bug, just download the previous revision (3714) from

A nice touch for that RMQ revisions:
sv_aim 1
r_show_coronas 0
gl_texture_anisotropy 16

Again... Thank you very much.

Cheers and happy new year! 
im getiing a "wrong map version something...111 shoudl be 29, i geuss this has todo with the bsp2? il try redownloading rmq, else it just might be my crappy system 
solved by downloading the 3714 version, i think i had a very old version of rmq:) 
Is It.. 
possible to turn of the effect from being hurt? This severely hurts my fps and would be awfull for speedrunning 
Which effect are you referring to? Getting hurt doesn't have any unusual effects for me. You could try...

"v_kickroll 0.0"
"v_kickpitch 0.0" 
That does makes things a bit smoother 
a bit smoother but when i get hurt i still get this blur 
r_motionblur "0" 
motionblur 0 made it kinda playable, thx. Best i could come up with and was doable: 
That's A Whole Lot Of Map! 
Finished wicked.bsp, really pretty awesome (skill 0 (not played a lot recently), 75ish mins, 330ish kills, 10 secrets). The quantity of supplies meant it was pretty easy on the whole although I ran out of armour a few times and that made for a trickier time! I got kind of used to being sniped at with and mostly ignoring arrows from enemies impossibly far across the map -- they don't really do a lot of damage.

I love the way you keep on getting to higher levels in the castle even when you think there can be no higher to go. I thought the droles were used well.

I played using RMQEngine-Win32-3714.exe under wine on my laptop with sandybridge graphics and it all worked fine, performance was certainly "good enough".

I only properly got lost/confused a couple of times, once I think after finding the first gk door and then finding the exit! It did feel a bit like you built this massive intricate consistent-with itself castle (seriously, I have no idea how it's possible to work on something that big) and then had to splat game-world-nonsensical arrows and lifts and so on around to make into a map that could actually be played. Not sure if there's any way around that really (maybe the arrows could have been *more* obviously not part of the game world?). 
Interesting Points 
I sort of assumed a certain Quake-cheesiness was going to be accepted/inevitable, although there weren't any spike shooter traps ;)

Just curious, did anyone recognize which sections were Tyrann's or Necros'? There was a fair amount of retexturing for consistency and I also built in a lot of my own scraps, but I hope that the original styles were still apparent.

PS the start map began as a dumbass joke incorporating a tower from each mapper (whose tower is biggest - heh). I was going to scrap it but ijed convinced me it was worth finishing.

Thanks for the feedback everyone! 
my attempt to try to find all secrets failed when I spent about 15 minutes looking for secret 2 in the start map :-)

It's a good excuse to replay wicked.bsp though. 
Late to the party I guess but I just now played this (using the experimental build of FTEQW). No technical issues aside from getting stuck on terrain a couple of times.

TLDR => Lots of fun. I love exploring a big swiss-cheese structure and your "hint" arrows were just enough to be useful without getting in my face. The arrows and shortcuts (and messages about shortcuts) did feel like late-in-the-design sort of additions, but it was still a very cool space to run around and fight in.

I think I'm getting a bit more used to the Drake additions; they feel sufficiently Quake-y... maybe. :-) It was nice to deal with some monsters that I haven't completely figured out yet.

Hard mode was about right for me for first time through. I didn't particularly enjoy the end arena fight but that's just my Quake tastes in general.

Some of the few secrets I found in wicked.bsp were fantastic... actual rewards rather than just more ammo/armor. Especially the quad secret that others are mentioning. :-) I think I only found 6/30 while playing through "normally" so I'm sure I'll eventually go back in to poke around some more.

Good on ya! 
Found 28/30 now. Know where one more is but not how to open it (has an unstoppable superweap^W^W crossbow in). Getting there... 
the one in the room with the pilars totake you all the way for the end fight? if so when you enter that room go left when at the door turn around and look up 
That was it. Found the last one by reading the save file and lots of edict 1 -- predictably it was very easy! Do I get a cookie? 
A Series Of Static Pictures Shown In Sequence 
Nice One DaZ... 
I believe the red barrelled GL fires a rocket/grenade that locks on to an available target that comes within its "sensor" range; the drunken path is used to maximise that range. No targets, the shell just just follows its drunken path till it hits a wall. Good weapon to use against dragons :) I think. 
I really liked the video, the flythrough at the start had a very cinematic quality, kind of like the demo at the start of Unreal 1. distrans you're exactly right, the sidewinder is a great way to guarantee that you hit something given that it seeks - good for archers far away in the fog, or enemies that move quickly like dragons or axemen. the drawback of course is that it has less power than a normal RL.

as people have noticed, I'm hesitant to give the player the RL until late in a given level/episode, since it makes most Quake, and even Quoth or Drake enemies, too easy. And it doesn't have the danger of the DOOM RL. You can just pwn (and rocket-jump). 
Had no idea it was seeking :P I'll mention that in part 2. 
Would you happen to have the high quality versions of the Drake sounds laying somewhere? 
#36 posted by ijed [] on 2012/12/20 22:14:37
This is the up to the minute compile tools and engine:

"This application has failed to start because SDL.dll was not found"

it's included in the package on the RMQ site 
now it just crashes immediately on start. No useful error messages. 
I get about 1 second of garbage graphics and then the program crashes. Never had any problems with any other quake exe. Ever. 
try sticking SDL_net.dll in too?

no idea besides that 
yeah did that, i've got everything in the right place because I "uninstalled" and then tried again with the package necros posted earlier, which includes the dlls along with the rmq quake exe.

Now, this is a laptop running XP that copes fine with games like Doom 3, Gears of War and Oblivion. I'm inclined to think that I'm doing everything right at my end.

I also tried giving it various different heapsizes, but it makes no difference.

This makes me sad because an over-the-top Tronyn map is like a Christmas to me, and every Christmas I look forward to Santa coming down my chimney and emptying his sack into my stockings.

Only this time I can't get into my stockings. 
what about FTEQW?
I personally still haven't tried it, and I didn't even that it supported BSP2 until after I released this map, but apparently it does. If you haven't tried it yet, it might be worth a shot: 
I played through the whole thing with the experimental build of FTEQW, works like a charm. 
I Played With RMQ On _ubuntu_ 
So it clearly works OK sometimes... 
You know, if I was in a room with three others - Hitler, Jimmy Saville, and the person who thought this was a good idea - and I was given a gun with two bullets and had to figure out which one of those three people to spare...I think I'd just shoot myself in the head twice. 
Dark Places 
Also works. 
I tried using the Darkplaces build 22 dec 2012, and it said it couldn't load wickedstart.bsp because the map was of unknown type. 
It should be supporting BSP2...

A lot of people have had trouble with RMQe, but we weren't able to fix these issues when it was being developed because none of the problems occurred with people on the team.

In the same way, Mac support was impossible because nobody had a Mac. 
Post #1 
I believe two engines support bsp2, and they aren't even compatible implementations, sadly (darkplaces has an altered spec for it, for some reason.) 
Gave Up On RMQ...tried FTEQW 
and it seemed to work at first - i played through the start map and a little way into the first main map, and then as soon as i got to the first "Baron" knight thing, the game crashed with some "cl_parsetent" error.

I tried restarting and quickloading, but the thing crashes if I try to quickload, so that's as far as it looks like I'm going to get with this one. 
Ok, Worked At Last 
I finally managed to play this after Negke sent me an older build of FTEQW that didn't crash when loading a game.

That said, it felt a bit buggy with quite a few graphical glitches that I never get in Fitz. Also, the player movement physics felt a bit...fucked. I'm not sure what the problem was exactly but whenever I was moving on stairs or slopes, it felt like control was partially removed like I was sliding around on ice or something. This caused me to plummet off ledges more times than I can remember and I just got used to hitting noclip and flying back, which kind of killed immersion. Also, the music stopped playing early on and I never could get it back.

I think all this resulted in an experience that was quite a few notches below the level of enjoyment I had playing the extra arcanum maps yesterday, but that's not your fault Tronyn.

The main map is a monumental construction, and to be honest I found it overwhelming at times, but amazingly I didn't get too confused with the layout and it seemed reasonably easy to find my way around it once I'd opened it up a bit.

The scale of some of the spaces is mind-boggling. It would be very interesting to see what could be chopped out to get this to compile in normal bsp format, whilst retaining as much of the epic feel as possible. I'm fairly certain it could be done.

I played on easy, but even so the Quoth enemies do my head in quite frankly so I was a bit dissappointed to find out I had to fight Droles and those flying lightning things.

If this map had vanilla weapons and a skew towards mainly vanilla monsters and worked in Fitz, it would have been one of my all-time favourites, I'm sure of it. 
One More FTEQW Thing 
The build I used to play it allowed me to save whilst dead for some reason. I found this out the hard way during the end map. In the chaos, I quicksaved whilst dead. That was fun. 
that's an odd bug.
I'm sorry this didn't work out as well as it ought to have, though at least you were able to play it at all. And I'm glad for the enjoyment you did get. I do feel your pain though since I don't like messing around in unfamiliar engines. I hope that more engines eventually support this format (at inside3d I was basically told if you build it they will come).

I think that the map could possibly be split in two (the Tyrann castle front/first cave for map 1, and the Necros courtyard/associated areas/second cave for map 2) and compiled in normal bsp. The thing is by the time I got to that point, the layout had become so intertwined on both sides ("swiss cheese" as someone remarked) that it would have been really artificial to cut things up that way. The size of the map is kind of exhausting even for me and as a result I made the decision to split other forthcoming maps in two.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback on this and the Arcanum stuff too! Cheers! 
I Should Add 
I should add, that I have nothing against the BSP2 format, and would love to see it supported by Fitz (or whatever we're calling "Fitz" now, Mark V or QuakeSpasm or whatever.)

From what I understand from reading mh's blog, BSP2 is a completely reasonable and minimal change to the BSP29 format, and I think if we didn't have to go through all this engine pain to see it in action, it could be used for good things. 
A Triumph! 
Having played the second map several times in various formats, I enjoyed this version the most :)

The start map looked great with its blue sky, message plaques, and hidden entrances to Nightmare and Hell skills. It might have been nice to see that sky echoed in the other maps, though.

The final map was just as spectacular as the other two, but a bit frustrating until I realized that I could handle the hoards without breaking my neck to get the power-ups ;) I loved the monster variety, BTW.

The ambient sounds and music in all 3 maps really enriched the experience!

Congratulations, Tronyn, on releasing the best BSP2 map to date! 
I Always Wondered 
why Tronyn doesn't use that extra special Canadian technology in his maps.

Best I can figure, he's been holding out on that. 
DarkPlaces Now Supports RMQe BSP2 
I posted a new darkplaces build today with support for this fine map pack and a number of other fixes for existing maps with issues like hip2m3's shalrath now work properly, and sv_gameplayfix cvars are off by default (the disruptive ones, anyway) so it is a more authentic Quake experience.

Congratulations Tronyn, this is a great map pack :) 
Thanks a lot, I will try it out right away!

I'm glad to see Darkplaces supporting this format, since I have a couple more forthcoming maps that are also too large for normal BSP format, and I've always liked playing in Darkplaces. 
checked out your update and saw that this is apparently the less efficient BSP2 format of 2... I'm of course willing to recompile this and change compilers for future maps. And I hope the format will be more unified. 
Hmap2 Bsp2 Format Differences 
There's also my hmap2 compiler suite which produces bsp (if within limits) or bsp2 (if not within limits), the raised limits turned out to be essential in compiling a lot of maps that do end up within limits but are a bit over-the-top during compile.

The BSP2 produced by hmap2 is different than the RMQe one however, it has expanded coordinate limit (hmap2 can produce maps "Slightly larger than Earth" after all), the RMQe one kept the +/-32768 coordinate limit of Quake bsp29.

They are otherwise identical and I hope engines will support both, ideally I should add a flag to hmap2 to produce the RMQe bsp2 format for ultimate compatibility.

Not to knock the RMQe BSP2, it's a good upgrade, I just saw opportunity to upgrade it all the way.

DarkPlaces also has a special lump loader that detects expanded lump tables in the bsp, so we could easily extend the bsp format with more data (for instance lightgrid for model lighting like q3bsp), this would work with all quake bsp formats, but obviously the compiler has to produce such data.

My main worry with recommending hmap2 is that although I am confident it is the "anything goes" ultimate limits compiler, it is not multithreaded. This means its qbsp and vis stages can take considerably more time than other compilers, but at least the light stage is super optimized (so fast that -extra8x8 exists just to let you have it grind for minutes on higher quality lighting, normally it doesn't take even a minute), be sure to run light AFTER vis however, to get that speed gain. 
As a regular fan of your work with A Desert Dusk occupying a special primordial place in my heart ...

One troublesome gremlin is that in coop on maps like the Masque of the Red Death or Arwop, client players (i.e. not the listen server) often fight invisible monsters after a while because all of the decapitated scrag heads, coins and such.

I hope at some point engine technology catches up with your monster count. It sucks fighting invisible scrags, hellhounds in coop as a client due to super-high entity count.

Maybe eventually this problem with be solved, as these giant maps are very coopable as coop needs tons of monsters to entertain. 
Thanks for continuing to work on DP from a q1sp POV, it is much appreciated! 
And thanks for the complete BSP2 support as well :) 
so rmq 3714 is the best way to try this? 
DarkPlaces also has a special lump loader that detects expanded lump tables in the bsp, so we could easily extend the bsp format with more data (for instance lightgrid for model lighting like q3bsp), this would work with all quake bsp formats, but obviously the compiler has to produce such data.

Using a light grid could be used to have better shading on liquids? I think maps would look considerably better by having that. 
Why hasn't someone simply supported lightmaps on water, anyway? Is it that hard of an engine thing to support? I mean, it's a surface and it's in the BSP so ... ? 
Chicken And The Egg 
There are probably a few technical issues you'd have to worry about - like if the water texture is being distorted do you distort the lightmap as well (and is it easy to separate those concerns). I imagine the main problem is that no maps have lightmap data for water, no tools support creating them and no engines can apply them. So what comes first, engine support for lightmaps nobody creates, or tool support for something that can't be loaded?

One thing that might be possible just on an engine level is to create a lightmap for the water in the same way as models are lit - i.e. read the light level from the lightmap directly below. Doing it once at map load time shouldn't be terribly slow. You might end up with a lot of bad looking maps though if people haven't lit underwater spaces thoroughly. I think you'd certainly want to boost the values a bit since water is currently fully lit and you'd want the effect to be subtle. 
Water Lightmaps.. 
are something I asked about before too, I think Tyrann tried to add it but it didn't work, something about the engine needing to support it. I never thought about the water distortion before Preach just mentioned it, I guess it would probably take a little more work to impliment than I originally thought.
What would be nice is if you could add a key that the engine would recognise as lightmap-enabled and on older or unsupported engines it could display in the default fashion? 
Backwards Compatibility 
From a vague understanding of lightmaps in the BSP, it should be possible to add extra lightmap data in a backwards compatible way, the engine will just ignore it. I don't know if you can associate a lightmap with a water surface as easily without breaking backwards compatibility (I'm sure there will be some way though). 
Why hasn't someone simply supported lightmaps on water, anyway? Is it that hard of an engine thing to support? I mean, it's a surface and it's in the BSP so ... ?

One issue with that is that some maps allow for draining of water etc... which would cause inconsistencies. A light grid wouldn't have that issue since it's volumetric. It would also help the models being lit more consistently; using the lightmap below is a crude approximation -- though it works surprisingly well most of the time.

But imo any vaguely consistent lighting is better than no lighting. 
Jesus Fucking Christ 
took me a while to make some time for and about 15 min of dickery to load (first download right rmq engine, then sdl.dll, then sdl_net.dll) but was it worth it?

Absolutely. Totally amazing all round but what I liked was the fact that the architectural scale actually fitted together with the gameplay scale and the beefed up weapon scale. It was one big OTT jaw dropping, brutlaly fun experience.

Seriously I have no idea how long this took to make or how you guys just keep managing to up the ante so much every year but this is mind boggling mappery. 
thanks for the compliments, glad you enjoyed it. It definitely took a long time to make!

I take inspiration from the fourth episode of The Ultimate Doom, "Thy Flesh Consumed," where the designers knew the engine capabilities well, and also knew that anyone playing it would already be familiar with the game, so they just went ahead and made huge, nonlinear levels, that assumed the player would find their own way. Although with this, after some playtesters got lost, I decided to err on the side of making the route obvious, since what's the point of all the testing and compiling etc if people are getting lost. 
Yeah Probably Was A Good Idea 
I think I got lost maybe once but I have a habit of wandering around levels just looking at stuff anyway so I dont mind even if I do. 
Got To Say 
Thanks to Tronyn and PM for doing something with the format. Too drunk to elaborate. 
I Am Speechless 
A tremendous accomplishment. Such a huge map that nearly forms an episode by itself: painstakingly constructed to perfection til its smallest bits, ingeniously interconnected to ease up navigation and reward exploration, populated/balanced such that the over an hour long trek never gets boring, unfair nor disencouraging. The single fact that I haven't got lost nor died even a single time throughout a map that took seventy minutes to beat and put me against nearly 700 monsters shows the amount of skill on display here by itself.

I have used RMQE (r3714) and haven't encountered any bugs (this should be the first choice for anyone out there who haven't played this monster of a map yet). Though it still requires a bit of cvar fiddling to revert it back to less 'flashy' visuals. There are a few more, but these three are crucial:

r_colored_dynamic_light 0
r_colored_dynamic_light_mflash 0
r_motionblur 0

Still, I haven't figured a way to keep Death Knights from lighting up the whole area whenever they use their ranged attacks or the spiders from doing the same wherever they die. There isn't any documentation on the specifics of the engine so I had no choice but to try to make it out from the config output. I don't know what the following change exactly and I'll be grateful if any of the original coders can explain them (values are the default ones):

r_instancedlight 1
r_lightscale 1
r_uwfactor 512
r_uwscale 2
r_warpfactor 2
r_warpscale 8
r_warpspeed 4

Anyway, even though it was a bit of a hassle to run, this masterpiece was worth all the effort on my end. It was breathtaking, even intoxicating to behold most of the way and highly enjoyable to play all throughout. It was the perfect finale for today's Quake festivities of mine.

Thank you Tronyn.

wickedstart - 5:40, 2/3s
wicked - 70:15, 12/30s, 674/690k
wickedend - 7:27, 2/2s, 98/101k
Thanks for the feedback, and the level of detail in it, and the tips that should be useful for other players, too. Cheers.

My Q1SP reviews should finally be coming soon, and I should have another Q1SP out this summer. 
..Pentium2 450+voodoo3 Could Manage This Beast ? 
unfortunately, I doubt it; it is vised, but there's open areas and lots of monsters... if you could run all the maps in RMQdemo2, you should be able to run this... but I'm not hopeful. Sorry! 
Yes I know what you mean but with that config I still manage to play almost all Quake thingy just with not too demanding engines !'s a maniacally well setup config with all the fastest drivers for voodoo3(1.05), directx8.1, win98se tweaked(eheh), etc..

From my experience if a map is vised then..ehr should be at least playable(I'm happy even with 15 frames per second) 
Soo Close! 
680/690 Monsters 29/30 Secrets

97/104 monsters, 2/2 secrets for the end Map

0/0 Monsters, 2/3 secrets for the beginning

And what is Hell Skill?? 
Hell Skill 
is pure crazy. Monsters have kind of Zombie mode, they just don�t
die but come to life after some time.
Heavily unplayable, at least you have to be Orbs. 
Error When Try To Launch 
I put sdl and sdl_net dlls in quake folder but when run rmqenginewin32.exe error:
I don't expect to be able to help much, but what version of RMQEngine, and what operating system?
Have you tried DarkPlaces ( or FETQW ( 
Cubemap support is pretty much universal in all hardware since the riva.
The only thing that doesn't support it is microsoft's software implementation.
In which case, update your drivers. Properly.
From your vendor's website instead of windows update (because microsoft in their infinite wisdom do not provide gl drivers in those automatic updates).
Failing that, do as Tronyn said and use a different engine. Note that if either of them say 'gl_vendor: microsoft' you'll want to install some graphics drivers anyway... 
Don't You Need A Glide Port For A Voodoo? 
Somehow I missed this when it was released! Glad I found it, it's got to be one of the best single maps ever (referring the middle one). The start map was amazing too.

But yeah that middle level, the size, constantly fantastic architecture all the way through. Balance was just right, at the end I still had lots of MHs all over the place, but not much ammo left at all. In fact I left a lot of the flying lightning dudes and gaunts, I didn't have enough ammo to kill them at the end, the dragons used it all up, but I didn't need to anyway. It also wasn't too difficult and hordey like some tronyn maps.

Fortunately, thank god, I never really got lost. The little tips you put in had me on the right path. The exit, gk and two towers (I thought it was the two back at the start) had me walking around a little bit, but not for long. But, this level could be frustrating if you did happen to get lost and not know what to do next.

The end map, I read some comments so knew to shoot the buttons for the pillars, although I only used three of them and not till about halfway through. I didn't find it impossibly difficult. I died I think 3 times but they were mostly shooting at the buttons instead of focusing on combat. And I still had plenty of ammo left, never even used the cell weapons or bfg. But I definitely think it was adequate - you don't need to have an arena with the biggest battle ever, in fact the dragons at the end of map 1 would have been a good enough finish. They fucked me up a few times in fact. I was playing on normal btw.

I think I might have to go back to play the marcher fortress since everyone still says that's the best. I really can't remember a thing about it. But I think wicked2 takes the cake for possibly being best q1sp of all time. Of course it has the advantage of being qbsp2...

ps. I love the more powerful sg/ssg. 
Played 'Wicked' through with Quakespasm with Eric's bsp2 patch ... Haha. It's been ages since one of Tronywns big maps has got into my hands. 14/30 secrets and around 470/530 kills on normal. Super exhilirating gameplay as always, and not too many fmd moments. 
Oh Man 
Now that QuakeSpasm supports BSP2 I'll be playing all those releases soon! 
Can the old NSOE and ARWOP maps be played through this? Thanks! 
yes, the latest version of Drake which comes with Something Wicked should support everything in NSOE and ARWOP. Pretty sure that will work, but even if it doesn't, the eventual Drake merger project (target: this summer) will support & include all previous Drake/SoE maps. 
Tronyn, for the Drake Merger, can you get different models for the Shotguns? Still not used to the "same models but different" shotguns. 
maybe add some cfg's to get certain settings in the different engines wich support the bsp2 format, one for eyecandy one for performance one for vanilla-taste 
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