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Quake Documentation Project
Quaketree brought up the idea that the community needs to rescue / dig out the information from this forum and other sources and store it in one accessible place.

Others chimed in and most agree that this place should be a wiki. Spirit has suggested Quaddicted, and I personally agree that it's the right place for such a project, but the Wiki over there seems to be limited. Others (Willem, me) have also volunteered to set up such a Wiki.

Let's discuss this idea further in this thread. I think it would be a fantastic thing to have a community Wiki for Quake level design.

UPDATE: there is now a URL: http://quakewiki.org/
Seperate Jobs 
- wiki setup
- add hierarchy/site structure, i.e. create stub pages, good categories, etc. I'm thinking along the lines of

maps
resources
.map
.bsp
pak
textures
models
stuff that preacher freq posts
palette
editors/editing
good technique
tutorial section
compilers
example setup

quakec
bla here

coding

- fill with actual content/knowledge whatever

these could be done by different persons of course, which is the point. 
I'm Eating A Caramel Bar Right Now. Shit's Good 
Quaddicted seems the logical choice. Maybe it needs some work to lay out the wiki better (I had a look and there are some bizarre articles and little organisation to locations of articles) but tbh, spirit has proven over the years to be an obsessive archiving nut job (in a good way) so making Quaddicted a hub for Quake information is probably the best and safest idea.

nomnomnom 
 
feel free to copy any of these: http://mobile.sheridanc.on.ca/~jonescor/index.php?folder=1

the lighting one in particular would benefit from being in a wiki. I remember when i first posted about it, I think two other people came out with neat tricks I never even thought of. It would be awesome to collect those tricks in one place. 
 
If needed I could add tagging, then it would be more like MediaWiki. But I always liked a "less pages but more verbose pages" approach to wikis that have 4 lines per page.

My dream was to have pages for all the tools in /tools/, just like /engines/ should have a page for every engine.

Maybe just a new namespace ("directory", "subpath") called /editing/ ? I put some stuff in /tools/, some in /help/. Why? Because it is hard to categorise. megaman for the way. Can you elaborate a bit more on those categories?

I would suggest the [GNU Free Documentation License](http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html). Any thoughts? 
 
 
maps category could just go to quaddicted map listing... that's by far the most extensive one anyway and has a good working system to get at stuff easily. 
More On Categories 
I prefer having a few main categories with, for starters, large pages for each topic below. Example:

Level editing
- Entities
- Brushes
- Faces
- Tutorials
- Best practices
- Tools (Editors, Compilers, ...)

QuakeC coding
- Not sure what goes in here

Resources
- Pak files
- Wad files
- Textures
- Palette files

Technical
- Map format
- BSP format
- Compilers

Engine hacking? 
 
Here is my category structure, from 98. In case you get some ideas from this as well.

http://bport.ca/temp/quake-master-cd-tree.png 
Oh, It Killed My Indentation 
Modding in general
- palette
- maps
-- .map
-- .bsp
-- editors
-- good technique
-- tutorial section
-- compilers
-- example setup
-- textures
- models
-- stuff that preacher freq posts
coding
- quakec
-- bla here
- Source

and those are the first things that came to my mind.

Also, just lay down a general structure; we can always just change later. Don't overthink things now, the point is to have a structure, so authors that can actually provide content can easily start to fill in stuff without worrying about the structure/sitemap/location. 
 
You know what? I will setup MediaWiki, get the database dump of http://quakery.quakedev.com/qwiki/ , point http://www.quakewiki.org to it and try to find someone to make it look decent.

That way it is seperate from Quaddicted (I am sure at least some will prefer that, hell I do for the ease of calling it "the Quake wiki"), hopefully appeal more to the modders too and be "the normal wiki software" people are familiar with. Being seperated would also hopefully make sharing full access to the docroot easier.

Sound like a good plan?

The old wikis:
http://web.archive.org/web/20081120082126/http://quakery.quakedev.com/qwiki/
http://web.archive.org/web/20070712142236/http://wiki.quakesrc.org/ 
Damn Good Plan! 
 
Awesome 
Also I agree with megaman for once: don't over think the structure, we can revamp it once we know what we're doing. 
Peachy! 
Hopefully it will be under some sort of GPL so that others can use it freely if they wanted to (non-commercially of course). I've already talked about this when I brought it up originally. 
 
Any progress here yet?

I personally wouldn't put "wiki" in the domain name, because, even though it will be a wiki, I just don't like the idea of being bound to it that title. Also, it just sounds funny. Sounds puny, or dinky.

quakearchive.org or quakeworks.org or quakeworx.org or quakemania.org or quakeplanet.org

I also would try to get ".com" even though this is a non-profit(.org) project, still you want to try and get ".com" because ".com" is common knowledge and even though you tell people your website address, they still don't goto that address; they either search or try it with ".com" naturally.

Sounds like whatever the domain ends up being, it will be hosted by Spirit, correct? Spirit is the owner of quaddicted.com? Okay. 
Quakewiki 
Is great IMO. 
 
There's quakewiki.org. Except it's not a wiki. 
Info That Should Be On Our Wiki 
Also: 
Why Don't We Compromise... 
And call it a quicky? ;) 
 
wiki is installed and live, I am now trying to get the data of http://web.archive.org/web/20081120082126/http://quakery.quakedev.com/qwiki/ so don't do anything.

Does someone have a close relationship to the Doom guys? Their wiki theme is insanely nice, it would be great to be able to use it. 
 
Needs to be called Quake Wiki because that's exactly what it is, it tells you straight away and sounds official. 
Professional Artistry To Do 
If someone wants to improve the color scheme, please do: http://quakewiki.org/

It the https://github.com/dantman/monaco-port skin, if you want to set it up locally.

I do like the black on white, it is super readable and neutral. If you can create a great and usable "darker" design though that fits Quake better, no doubt it would be used.

Also we'll need a favicon (in big resolutions too).

PS: Starbuck! Starbuck! Starbuck! Starbuck! 
Needs... 
to be darker... and browner. :P 
 
I forgot to add:

For reference check out http://doomwiki.org/ 
Spirit! Spirit! Spirit! 
I definitely agree with keeping black on white. Let's keep this shit functional. My vote would go to pretty modest styling actually.

Um, I'd play with the style myself but what's the deal, am I going to have to boot up a server and install mediawiki(?) and then this skin? 
Btw: 
I was the one that created the front page category structure here. I feel like it's a pretty good top-level structure if you guys want to use it as a starting point.

I also recommend grabbing the "network protocols" page here. Sadly i think this is an out-of-date version of that page, but i could restore what is missing based on my own notes i think.

I was probably the only one trying to add stuff to that wiki for a while. (well, me plus about 2 dozen spambots.) 
Not My Neatest Work Ever 
but for an idea of one way to go with the design, my preference would be something like this:

http://i.imgur.com/OfOJDSZ.png

Not sure if my tastes line up with the majority or not, but if people like that I'd be happy to polish that up and do it for real. 
Also The Q Should Probably Have Some Little Monsters Around It 
 
 
I like the colors and subtle background texturing

I like my logo though :> 
 
I think the first logo but without the shambler (keep the book) against Starbuck's background would be the coolest. 
Futura 
Yes please.

And that sublime concrete background. 
Woot 
Bigger book without Shambler might look ace indeed. Would also make a nice iconic icon. I really really like the "book of Quake wisdom" spirit of it.

Starbuck: That looks awesome, I knew it! :)
If I knew how to give someone access to just one directory on the server securely I would do that in a heartbeat but I have no clue. Sadly that stupid skin uses multiple files for its CSS. Probably not worth installing. I could add a CSS url to somewhere in your control so you could override stuff with !important and then I would integrate the changes later maybe?

That box on the left is weird. Maybe all white background (leaving the lines of course) and a thin rounded border around the search box?

metl: I'll be importing that wiki and possibly some of the quakesrc one too. :) 
 
funnily enough, the original plan I had was just the book alone... I'll do a version like that 
 
Apparently Mediawiki has some wikified CSS integrated, try this http://quakewiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.css 
 
Scampie, I think just the book would look sweet. Especially with the book above the text.

Spirit, yeah, why don't I email you a link to a .css file, I'm sure we'll work it out. Shitloads of !importants may indeed be on the cards.

I also agree about the left box. That theme is a bit messy. I'll try and remove a lot of the nonsense once I get css-ing! 
Oops 
should probably learn to refresh the thread. That looks good, I'll get on it. 
Erm 
can't edit that page? 
Damn 
well I'm in bed now 
New Logo 
960 Standard 
Please!!!

It's a BAD thing that Wikipedia has 100% width.

Those lines are massive.

It DOES make reading it harder.

OOKK!!!?!?! 
We Should Add Mediaqueries 
Pure CSS dynamic layouts, for mobile compatibility. Just asks about the screen dimensions and adjusts according to the CSS rules within. It's like what can be done with JavaScript but no JavaScript is required.

Its easy.

As per:

http://www.onextrapixel.com/2012/04/23/responsive-web-design-layouts-and-media-queries/ 
How Much Ajax Should We Be Using 
 
For That? 
None!!! 
I Like The New Logo! 
 
 
oh my word Ricky, does it honestly look like a nice semantic theme that's going to react well to responsive layouts? I mean they've used bloody tables for positioning. Tables! Feel free to inject the media query CSS using dev tools or whatever, if it works well I will eat a whole suitcase full of shorts.

Unless you're aware of a modern standards compliant theme that runs on that wiki software? That'd be awesome. Otherwise though, maybe there's a dedicated mobile theme out there? We could set up a m.quakewiki.org subdomain and do a browser check... 
Maybe We Should Write Some Articles First 
Also how many people are going to seriously read this in their mobile phones? 
 
added URL to the the thread text. 
 
oh god, Ricky is right about the maximum width!

I could not care less about mobile version, opera mobile makes reading normal versions of websites fun. if someone writes it though, sure thing.

don't waste your time writing content, wait until the import has happened to see what is there. 
Spirit 
You get my email dude? 
 
yes but I am not a dog!!

(out of town right now, will do it in about 7 hours) 
Woof 
cool beans, no rush. 
Thanks To LordHavoc 
I successfully imported a database dump of the quakery.quakedev.com/qwiki wiki locally now. More later. 
 
Great!

Looking forward for updates!

Oh, and hi, my name's matfac! 
@ Starbuck 
I like the new colors and backgrounds however the "More" menu is unreadable right now. 
Some Text Is Too Small On Firefox / Mac 
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7009168/quakewiki_firefox_mac.jpeg

It looks fine on Safari:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7009168/quakewiki_safari_mac.jpeg

Also, what font is that in the Safari screenshot? 
Hmm 
Seems like the font isn't Futura after all. 
Maybe 
The font is not available on Macs. I would like to urge you guys to not use a special font for Quakewiki. Please use something that everyone is used to such as

Helvetica, Arial, DejaVu sans, sans-serif

Spirit suggested these for TrenchBroom's site, and it works quite well on all operating systems. 
Hold Off On The Feedback Until It's Somewhere Near Done Please 
I'm having to develop the theme on the live site, this is obviously a work in progress. There's a rats nest of existing CSS rules, and it's neither complete nor cross-browser tested so you're only wasting your time. 
Alright 
Wasn't aware of that, apologies. 
 
sexy looks are gone for now as I am working on the import 
Looking Good, Another Saturday Night Wasted 
Alright, if you want to help:

Play around on http://quakewiki.org/ and test the functionality.

Do not do any constructive work since I will reimport from scratch!

Test things, edit, register, visit random pages. try features.

If you had an account at quakery.quakedev.com/qwiki it should work. Go to http://quakewiki.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Preferences&success=1#mw-prefsection-rendering after logging in and choose the Monaco theme.

See http://quakewiki.org/ for a list of bugs and errors and please add ones you find there. 
 
Ok. I played around with it (and made the bug report page so people can edit it and add their reports easily). It seems to work ok but I was fooling around with my own page (QuakeTree) and can't figure out how to imbed an image. I'm a complete noob when it comes to Wiki editing so perhaps a link somewhere that is just a tad dumbed down on proper formatting for things like that might be helpful when you get it fully functional. 
Sigh 
imbed, embed, ombed, ambed, umbed... what's a vowel between friends right? That's what I get for trusting spell check. 
What Is The Wiki For Exactly? 
Is the plan just to write as much information about modding and mapping for Quake as possible, or are we going to add information about the monsters, levels etc. in the original game, document important mods, maps, collect interviews etc?

Btw, it's not super important, but if you are creating a new account and press tab to switch between the password and retype password boxes, the cursor goes somewhere completely unexpected (in Chrome at least). This also affects the login page, where tab from the password box takes you to the search box instead of the remember me checkbox. 
 
i'm not sure if i'm missing something, but the font is tiny, like 6 or 7 pixels high. 
Firefox 19 
 
quaketree: yeah, I think the help link is broken.

than: everything!

necros: absolutely right! 
 
Yay Everything!

I can't wait till it's ready to be written on. 
Quick Start 
I'd like to see a detailed section on the basics. Totally a noob start point. Get as many new people to give Quake a look as we can. Right now the time cost to learn Quake mapping is too high, info is scattered, links are long dead.
Lets get people able to build that first box room quickly. 
On The Basics 
I agree. And I do mean "The basics". Right down to what exactly is a brush. I know that it sounds stupid but way back when, like in 1997 when I first started looking at making a level, I kept seeing the word brush and I kept thinking to myself that "Painting on" a texture was nice and all but what does that have to do with making stuff. I finally figured it out of course but it took me about half an hour to figure out what people meant when they said brush, the name itself isn't intuitive to what it is relative to real world items. I mean seriously, one of the most important tools and I couldn't find a solid and concise definition of what it was anywhere on the internet.

So yeah. Something with no assumptions of knowledge on the part of the reader other than how to read and click a mouse button. One thing that I learned in the Navy was that there was no such thing as a dumb question as long as it was an honest one. 
 
Is there anybody who would be interested in making Quake 1 maps these days that wouldn't have baseline knowledge like, "What is a brush?" 
Like I Said 
That assumes that they already know what a brush is. How exactly is someone supposed to know that unless they either figure it out through context or are told? I used the brush as an example but there are probably plenty more examples out there where the jargon is assumed to be understood but isn't laid out somewhere in plain english in case it comes up as a question.

The whole point of a Wiki is to impart knowledge no matter how trivial. Assume nothing on the part of the reader.

As far as to who might still be interested in mapping for Quake I'd just say that Quake is probably one of the best engines for people new to the idea to start off with. It's relatively simple (no meshes, shaders and so on to deal with). The tools are similar (or the same if you use Radiant) to what's used in much more complex games and much of the same terminology is used throughout most games. Overall an excellent platform to start off with to learn the basics because this game was where the basics of 3D level design were first though up and implemented. 
Willem I Hope So 
Half life 1-2 and it's mods what else is there? The more modern a game is the steeper the learning curve. The harder to learn the faster a game falls into obsolesce. I may be wrong but what other game would be a good start, from zero knowledge of game design.
What game would be good for a kid to start with? 
What Could Possibly Go Wrong 
Did the final import, user rights should be working. Now browse and edit around and knock yourself out with content. Do not advertise it yet please, this is the beta stage. We should first see what happens.

There is a lot of house-keeping to do. Categories, templates, license reminders. Keep in mind that you must not copy and paste things in there. If you use references, please link them. If you plan want to do big restructuring, please discuss it somewhere in the wiki (using Talk pages). The wiki should be self-contained. Discussion and decision that happens inside the wiki has precedence over anything said elsewhere.

Content-wise, you decide.

Busy and productive users become admins. So far scar3crow and Sajt are fellow admins. Both were imported that way. I am not sure if Sajt is still interested at all, we'll see. 
 
I set the Wiki to be case-sensitive, so you can now actually create pages starting with lowercase characters. This is great for variables and stuff. We could rename the existing pages with a bot (or sore fingers). 
 
Can you please make the font size bigger? It's so small I can barely read it without touching the monitor. 
 
you can get around that temporarily by using the other themes although they don't look as good, but yeah, it is tiny. 
Negke Just Wait Til The Layout Is Final 
To the busy editors, please add some appropriate categories to your pages, that would help structure later. Just at the bottom of the page (or anywhere really), something like: [[Category:Entity]] or [[Category:QuakeC Function]].

No idea if those really are QuakeC functions or engine functions, necros. I am just trying to help! :) 
 
I don't know anything about wiki editing, so thanks for the info. 
 
k, put a few qc things in. need someone who is more familiar with all the trace() globals to check on that one though. 
 
I'm working on a write up 'The Basics of Quake Mapping', which I plan to define brush, entity, making a sealed room, compiling, and playing the compiled map. The aim is for total newbies using Trenchbroom.

Plan to have it ready tomorrowish to put on the wiki 
Basics 
I agree that it is important that we have all the basics. This is because when the apocalypse happens, the survivors need to be able to rebuild humanity, and that includes Quake ;)

Also, I like the level of information in the Doom wiki - we should document the original game, create stubs for all the monsters, maps, weapons, powerups, creators and whoever wants to can add information at a later date. 
Entity Definition Pages 
ok, so I was just looking at the wiki and thought I would fill out a couple of entity information pages before doing some mapping.

So I went into info_player_start and wrote a very short description and then realised that it might be useful to have a table of keys that are supported by each entity as standard as a mapping reference.

info_player_start is not a good example, as it only supports origin, angle and spawnflags, but for other, more complex entities, having a table of keys and what they do would be helpful. However, whether this should be in some kind of standard table format or just as a list I don't know, though I do quite like the format used by Kell/Necros for the Quoth mapping guide:
http://www.quaddicted.com/webarchive/kell.quaddicted.com/quoth/quoth_tutorial.html

Whatever we do though, it should be the same for all entities. Also, I think support specific to mods should be contained in a separate page, so if, for example, we transferred the info from the Quoth mapping guide to the wiki, it would be best to keep it in a specific Quoth section. 
 
For the qc section, I was doing something simple with just h4 and preformatted text but maybe that will give you some ideas? 
I Agree 
I did a couple of entities as well (the sigil, episodegate and bossgate ones). I inserted the .fgd entry and was using that to describe what was going on but I think that it ended up looking a bit cludgy. I think that a good basic description of all of the keys and so on would be a good idea, plus it will help those who are writing in the Wiki to maintain consistency throughout the section.

Perhaps also a temporary template page (named entity template) that can be copied (cut and paste style) that has all of the common elements in it. It can be deleted once all of the entity pages are started. 
Formatting And Naming Conventions 
Ok, I wrote up a little extra info on the entity guide page. It might be worth splitting it off into subsections though. I also added info_player_start and info_player_deathmatch stubs. I'll try doing an example of an entity that has got settings.

If you are going to write up anything in the mapping section on an entity, please read the bit I wrote and if you have any suggestions for formatting or naming improvements then please respond here (or should we use the wiki talk page?)

I think we should add images of all the mapping features too, but for now lets just figure out the formatting of each page and write some basic text.

We should probably think about where and how we are going to write up information about specific hacks and tricks later too, though at this stage it's not really important. 
Oops.. 
forgot the link:
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Entity_guide

Scampie said he was writing some basic mapping descriptions, so maybe that should be merged with what I wrote, or perhaps if it's better organised/written then just remove the bit I wrote. I'm not sure if the entity guide should include the general entity info, or if it is intended to simply be a list of entities. 
I'll Link To Yours 
I'm aiming closer toward 'tutorial' than indepth articles on each and every thing. Yours is a much nicer in-depth knowledgebase than the 2 paragraphs I am writing. 
By The Way 
sorry to keep spamming, but for spawnflags, I think it's important we also include the value of each flag. Still not sure how we should format this stuff though. I think what quaketree wrote for the door was ok, but perhaps we need a little cleaner formatting as it looks a little clumped together perhaps?

I'll have a go at making the page for func_button if that's ok. 
Also 
I really think you should put your information on http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Entity as it's a very good writeup of the information. 
Argh 
ok, I'm going to split off Entity into a separate page, because putting it where I have was a dumb idea. We should have pages for all the mapping fundamental terms:
Brush (Scampie?)
Entity (kind of done)
Unit (done)
Angle?
Position / Vector?
Spawnflags (in entity)
Key/Value (in entity)
etc...

I guess the entity guide should contain a list of entities as it does now, though we might want to later split that off into Standard Quake entities and add pages specific to mods, or even just add a footnote with links to entity guides for mods and keep the standard entities on the entity guide page. 
Obviously 
This is and will be an ongoing thing regarding internal links that was an inevitable result of internal linking using outside resources.

As this develops I would hope that the links will stabilize as common terms are defined within the Wiki (and that punctuation is ignored. Brush links should be hyperinked to brush and not brushes for example. The "es" should be not included in the link unless you are talking about grouping brushes.) 
Quaketree 
yep, I think I did that everywhere. However, I realised that I made a shitty mistake of using lower case for page names, so the page name appears lower case. I haven't checked how to format page names, but we should all agree on some kind of page naming standard, and even if our pages are all named perfectly, we have to format the entity names properly as they contain underscores, which are used by the wiki to denote a space in links :/

I'm looking at this now, but I can't figure out how to do it (I just borked the Entity Guide page and it now has two titles... grr) 
Grr 
I should have read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Article_titles

First letter is uppercase, any actual uppercase letters in names etc. are uppercase, and everything else is lower (sentence case as opposed to title case as mentioned on that page)

God damn :/ 
Oh And... 
{{DISPLAYTITLE:func_button}} Works fine for entity names! Yay.

I don't think you can capitalise using it though, since it didn't work when I tried to "fix" Entity Guide. 
I'm Fine 
I'm also clueless as to how editing wikis is done regarding formatting. I am quite literally learning as I go.

If I'm messing up someones page I expect a flame here. 
"Only Open Source Works Referenced On Wiki?" 
John Carmack: Open sourced Quake. He didn't have to.
John Romero: Open sourced Quake map sources.
Spirit: Open sources; he didn't have to.
Negke: Open sources; he doesn't have to.
Travail: The QuakeC was open sourced by Asaki a year ago; no one made a horrific Frankenstein from it.
The Lost Chapters: Open sourced @ QExpo 2005
Willem: Open sources; he doesn't have to.
LordHavoc: Open sources ... he could DLL stuff and easily has the talent to do so and wouldn't have to.
Rubicon 2: Didn't have to. Metslime did anyway.
TrenchBroom: Didn't have to. SleepwalkR did anyway.

Yes, I have long had issues with closed source works in Quake and not just in single player and I've taken "the hit" for supporting open source willingly and sometimes with "social penalty" without remorse or regret.

[If you would like the <numerous> other examples of challenging closed source works, I'd be more than happy to olige; off hand I think I've done this with at least 15 closed-source Quake projects so it will be somewhat tedious and boring to others not familiar with it ...] 
No 
Can't be the Quake wiki if you exclude Quoth, for example. 
Still Fiddling Around 
omfg, wiki markup is horrible. I want to have a shower after my encounter with tables.

Anyway, here is a little test for func_button. I would like to include more information, such as an image, and some kind of table for spawnflags, but this is all I've done so far:
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/func_button

I don't love tables, but I think tables are a bit clearer than the indented list style used by quaketree on the func_door page. Ideally, we'd create a template for this kind of table, so that it can be better formatted for the specific kinds of information we want to display, and also be easier to edit from then on. wikitable is itself a template, if we had one called keyvaluetable or something, it would be helpful. I'll have a look at that later. 
I Wrote A Few Other Bits And Bobs 
One thing I added was worldspawn. This made me think about non-standard keys, such as _sunlight and other various light options, as well as those specific to modern engines, such as fog (is fog supposed to use an underscore by the way? _fog?)

It would be good if we could think of some nice clean way to add this kind of information and set up a nice, easy to read template for representing it.

I'm taking a break for now. I want to do some mapping instead. 
Level Shots Of All Id Maps 
I took the liberty of taking screenshots of all the standard id maps, resizing them and putting them in an archive. I'm going to try and create a basic page for each level now, but I don't know how far I will get with it. For anyone who wants the shots, I've uploaded them here:
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/quake_level_shots_1024x768.7z 
Creating A New Page 
Is there some way on the wiki to create a new page without first creating a link? There doesn't seem to be a "create new page" link anywhere :/ Maybe I am just blind. 
 
i made the wiki not force the first letter to be uppercase because so many things in quake would look silly with that. this means that you decide on the case when you create a page. moving pages is not problem, maybe I should make you all admins so you can do it?

for templates see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Templates

than: feel welcome to take anything from https://www.quaddicted.com/quake/episodes_maps for that :) 
 
new page: just visit the url where you want it to be and it will offer the option to create it. 
Spirit 
I had a feeling that info already existed and didn't think to look in the most obvious place.

Ok, well so far I haven't gotten anywhere because wiki markup is a headfuck and a half. It's the most horrible, not especially well documented language ever. Also, I didn't notice there were already templates for level information etc. I would have used them if I had.

I tried to add one for level information based on the wikipedia film infobox, but the wiki told me infobox didn't exist, so I just copied the one from wikipedia. That didn't turn out so great, so I have no idea if I've broken anything or not. It would be great if you could check it out and perhaps delete the crap templates I tried to add.

Also, if you are free, could you join #terrafusion so we can chat about this? 
 
Not until later. But I have no idea about templates and stuff myself. Made you admin for now but don't stress cleaning up too much. Stuff will grow and what is "perfect" will only emerge itself from evolution. 
Ok 
You are right, we should just get the information up, then worry about formatting and improving what's there.

I modified the sp level template a bit (still looks shitty) and made the information contained the same as https://www.quaddicted.com/quake/episodes_maps (minus speedrun links) and have no uploaded all map shots and created stub pages with just the basic info for the first two eps + start and end.

I don't really fancy doing any more right now, but I've a feeling that leaving 2 episodes without any info is going to annoy me too much and I'll come back later and add stubs.

I think the level template should probably be closer to the usual level info page on Quaddicted (example: https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/mce.html) than the current template, so it's less annoying to add information about less popular episodes and important custom maps - I don't want to have to check the monster count, secret count and cd track ;) 
More 
I made a really rough (and shit looking because I can't figure out wiki formatting) test for the e1m1 level information page.

Perhaps writing the secrets is overkill (and a lot of work), but I think it might be nice to eventually add all this kind of information. The Doom wiki is MUCH nicer than what I've made so far, so ideally we would have something like this for all standard maps: http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/E1M1:_Hangar_(Doom)

Actually, I just realised that the existing Quake wiki at wikia already has a lot of information about the standard maps and enemies, so perhaps it's not worth duplicating that?

http://quake.wikia.com/wiki/E1M1:_The_Slipgate_Complex

INSANELY detailed in fact.

Should we just concentrate on the mapping related content? 
And Thus... 
than's OCD is revealed. 
 
_the_ Doom wiki is at http://doomwiki.org , please don't like the other one. the community moved there.

the wikia on quake is full of errors and a bit crazy. wikia is bad.

again, do whatever you like! I think secrets on the map pages is a great idea. a complete walk-through seems a waste of time though. for doom it is easier as that is 2d.

yeah, check out what is already there :)

I believe if there is a good foundation or good examples, people will fill the rest.

and now go sleep/map! 
 
OCD??!

I thought about arranging the items in http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Mapping_tools#General_Purpose_Editors so they form a nice complete curve. 
 
btw since we're talking about formatting, for the coding articles, i'm just using a format similar to java docs. 
Can The Font Be Larger 
Because, you know, my eyes hurt :(

Aside from that, it looks great so far. I'll definitely contribute some stuffs! 
My Contribution 
Tested in Firebug. Works.

.monaco_shrinkwrap {
position: relative;
margin-left: auto;
margin-right: auto;
width: 960px;
Comooooon 
It's begging for it. That four column table layout on the main page is screaming 'reduce my width!!!'. 
 
RidcekqyeTr23! Calm down and wait for Starbuck to say "I am done". I set a maximum width and bigger font-size for now. 
It Works!!! 
 
 
I prefered the original width. With this new one it looks constricted.

The level pages should be named in uppercase, btw.: E1M1 instead of e1m1
Nah, Imagine A 1920 Wide Monitor 
Why? 
I Find That A Bit Narrow, Too. 
 
1152 Maybe? 
 
Legibility 
Also keep in mind longer lines tend towards more tiresome reading (one of the reasons magazines break text up into columns). So a happy middle-ground would be best. I like the way it looks atm btw. 
 
Maybe it would look less awkward if the content box was centered in the browser window? 
I Agree About The Long Lines 
However, maybe it's something better left for the user to decide by adjusting the width of their browser window. 
 
As a user who browses with his browser full-screen and who does not want to resize his browser window for each different website font-size, no. Look at func, now look at your browser window, now back at func, now at yourself, your brain is now diamonds. 
Jees 
I thought 960 was a good standard. I still think the Quake wiki looks better now it's 960 px wide.

960 for president!!!

http://960.gs/ 
Who Said Anything About Font Size 
Also full screen is for gay penguins. 
Also 
Aren't you the free choice zealot around here? 
960 
president.

Actually I think you should be able to choose how it appears. With a button. 
Beer--; 
This is your first strike, mister.

I only support free choices if they are mine. 
PS 
Remind me to copy http://www.quaddicted.com/apple-touch-icon.png to the Wiki as well. 
Thanks Spirit 
You just made func xbox live. Well, not really.

I haven't contributed or weighed in on this yet, so I'll just leave it as a floating threat.

I'm surprised you didn't ask for help on this before, there's almost tens people who can happily while away the hours banging on about quake.

Man, I miss having a pc. Maybe I'll go to linux as well, seeing as all the cool people are doing it.

Drunken rambling aside, this is a great idea. 
 
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Getting_Started_Mapping

Go ahead and fix any of my stupid spelling or grammar mistakes, and feel free to add any internal/external links you think would benefit.

I plan to go further with a follow-up that will cover vertex editing, clipping, doors, targeting entities, and all that other misc 'advanced' stuff.

Spirit: I fucking hate Matching cases in article names... the menu on the left refers to 'Getting started mapping' in that casing, which looks retarded as an article name, so I am using caps. 
Oooh, Max Width Looks Much Nicer 
The font really needs sorting out though, even if it's just temporary, the letters seem too close together at the moment.

Spirit: Thanks for pointing out I was looking at the wrong wiki - the one you linked is a lot cleaner and easier to read. I didn't think the wikia one was bad though.

Oh, it's my lunch break right now, so I just added a little info about info_null and then created a page for map based hacks for someone more knowledgeable than myself to start adding stuff to: http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Map_based_hacks
Feel free to rename the page or do whatever you like. I just thought it would be good to get a page on map/entity hacking up asap so that specific hack information could easily be added.

If Preach and/or Negke could rewrite the little stub intro I wrote and add any other relevant info to it, that would be awesome.

If I have some time tonight, I'll look again at creating some templates and try and get the design of the entity pages sorted out so that it's easier to add and looks a bit cleaner. 
So When Do We Start Claiming Articles? 
"Hands off my article, don't edit that!" "It's not your article, it's mine!" "Your text sucks!" "You're all wrong!" Revert! Revert! Revert! 
Hey Negke 
Your text sucks! 
 
ijed: Not sure what you are talking about. I always asked for help with Quaddicted. I hope people do not consider quakewiki.org my project though, I host it and help, I don't want anything more than that.

Scampie: The menu is not dynamic so that was my fault(?). See http://quakewiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Monaco-sidebar . Bloody great tutorial! 
We Need To Be Careful Of Case... 
I just noticed that QuakeTree and I have both added an article about "vanilla quake". I used lower case for both words (incorrect) and he used upper case for both words (correct in this case, since Quake is a pronoun).

This means we have two articles with approximately the same information on different pages with almost identical names :/

http://quakewiki.org/wiki/vanilla_quake
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Vanilla_Quake

By the way, I don't think we should overuse terms like Vanilla Quake, since it's best to stick to just Quake, unless we are trying to specify that it is stock Quake rather than a modded version of Quake. 
 
Always keep an eye on http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges

I'll do whatever you guys prefer (apart from the width). Could you guys live with titles like "Cl_forwardspeed" or

Table formatting is fucking idiotic in Mediawiki. ARRAGRHAGRHGHRGAHH. Dokuwiki is SO much nicer in this regard. 
This Needs To Be In The Wiki 
http://www.quakewiki.net/archives/spog/stuff/technical.html

CZG dug it up, it's a good write up of map / bsp (it's for Quake 3, but most of this should be accurate for Quake).

I'll volunteer to update and extend the parts about brushes / faces by adding

- Info about the difference between integer and floating point coordinates for plane points.
- How vertices are computed.
- Why floating point plane coordinates can be problematic.

Maybe Tyrann could glance over the BSP stuff? 
 
Do not copy other people's stuff! The wiki is GFDL, your content has to be compatible. You could rewrite it of course or try to get permission from spog. 
Sleepy 
I was thinking of adding the information here: http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quake/QDP/qmapspec.html

as an article '.map format'

perhaps we can combine them? 
 
literally do not care about 'plagiarism'. part of this documentation is to save and organize all the old things that are floating about so that the information is accessible again. 
Have To Agree 
Spirit, I know your stance on this, but in these cases... well, I'll probably rewrite it anyway.

Scampie, the QDP stuff is good, but mostly interesting to people like me who want to write an editor. I guess combining them in the form of your own or my own writeup would be good. 
Sleepy 
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Quake_Map_Format

Just as a start of a structure for this, but I think we can add in definitions of brush planes and such in the brush definitions so it can be of as much use to people writing an editor as it is to general designers who want to know more. 
 
There is nothing to discuss about. The wiki is GFDL. If you do not like that then find yourself another host and start from scratch. 
 
and the reason is that the two previous wikis, on which we are building upon are GFDL. plus why not do it right this time? if those who documented before would have worked under a free license, then we wouldn't have any issue. 
 
anyway...

http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Quake_Map_Format

this is written by me, with a new simple map by me, so it's FREE (like beer, or birds) INFORMATION. feel free to add to it sleepy or whoever, I'm not sure how much more is really needed 
Also, Speaking Of Vanilla Quake 
just fixed the entity page, which referred to the missing article 'vanilla_Quake' 
Someone Far Smarter Than Me... 
Scampie 
Good, I will add more in depth information about how the plane points are interpreted (point order, normal computation) and about floating point vs. integer coordinates tonight. 
Case Sensitivity 
What than said! There are at least two more duplicates: info_null and info_notnull. The older (capitalized) articles were submitted by me a couple of years ago, the newer ones by Quaketree.

The Into_null one also made me aware of a critical aspect about writing style. All general wiki articles should be written in a neutral tone, not addressing the reader. So instead of "You can...", "do not...", or "use this", it should be something like "It is possible...", "it should not be done", "it can be used.." etc. 
QSpecs And Other External Sources 
It's only plagiatism if the content is used in a way that suggests authorship of the wiki editor. Those certain texts can still be used as citatations, with a little footnote about the source. A possible compromise. 
 
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Textures

I CITED MY SOURCE

(metlslime, if you are reading, plz to have permissions) 
Neggers & Writing Style 
Do you work at the university & publish papers?

Generally, I agree with you on style, with the exception of tutorials and other articles where it indeed makes sense to address the reader directly. 
The Preach Factor 
You know that thread with all those crazy QC tricks and hacks? might it be an idea to get all that stuff in the wiki? I found it really interesting and illuminating at least, even if some of it wasn't tremendously practical. 
Scampie: 
you have permission to use my text, but you seem to have lost some of the information from the original article in your rewrite. e.g. the fact that vis.exe looks for both "*water" and "*04water". And the fact that power of 2 dimensions are not required, just recommended. Maybe other things too, i just skimmed it. 
Reading Comprehension 
Level 0 
Thank You 
I did skip that it looks for *04water... It was a choice to say that power of 2 dimensions are required, as I believe it's just simply better to state that as that's what modern GL engines want anyway. 
 
negke: Plagiarism was not the issue, not having permission to fully copy works regardless of displaying the authorship is.

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgCapitalLinks is the option I enabled because I thought it would be super fantastic for all the variables, entity names and so on. If you guys want it off, say it sooner than later because it will require fixing links. 
Off Off Off Off 
plz :( 
 
I only mentioned it, because scampie brought it up. 
QC Tricks Page 
I added a stub article called Map_based_hacks. I don't know if that's the right name for QC tricks done in a map, so feel free to move it somewhere else.

http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Map_based_hacks

Also, re: tone, I agree that neutral is best for most articles, but tutorials are probably best in a more informal style, such as that used by Scampie. All the stuff I have written is fairly neutral - probably because I waste a lot of time on Wikipedia.

Also, I added some content to the Quake article last night:
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Quake
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Quake_story

The small section I wrote on custom levels on the Quake page needs fact checking. I don't actually know the real circumstances of the QuakeEd release, whether id made a Windows port or how the tools were released etc. I also remember a couple of maps made in text editors (!!!) such as daskull.

Another thing, I originally put a link to the Wikipedia article on Quake II, since I assumed we are wrtiting a purely Quake 1 wiki, but I later changed it to an internal link since we might want to have a short description of each sequel, as they are still related to Quake 1. Again, feel free to change that back to a wikipedia link if we are definitely not have any Quake II or III content. 
Iirc 
id released the QuakeEd and tool sources, but did not port them to windows, it was up to the community to do so. 
Iirc 
id released the QuakeEd and tool sources, but did not port them to windows, it was up to the community to do so. 
Spirit 
Sorry, random BS - was thinking along the lines of how it wasn't obvious that Quaddicted already was a wiki. 
QuakeEd 
Was originally written in Objective-C for the NextStep system. It was most certainly not ported by id. Wasn't it Robert Duffy who did the (or a) port and then got hired by id as a result? 
 
it would be nice to get this either as a link or right on there: http://ouns.nexuizninjaz.com/dev_programming_introduction.html#working_with_the_code

setting up an ide like codeblocks for quakec basically increased productivity by like 10x. 
Would Be Good To Get Some Engine Coding Starting Point Too Maybe? 
A way to set up code blocks to develop whatever recent engine everyone is modifying (mark5? Quakespasm?)

By the way, is there any way we can upload arbitrary files to the wiki? Should we put them on Quaketastic etc?

For mapping tutorials, we need to have source maps etc.

Also, I recommend for the mapping tutorials to only ever use stock Quake textures, except in specific instances where the tutorial is about making textures, or non-standard textures such as skip etc. That's probably how stuff is at the moment, but I thought I'd just suggest it anyway. 
 
I added some more file extensions but please only use this if you need the files as references in pages or example material for tutorials. Do not upload tools and such. Mention the source and if possible the license of uploaded things if you did not make them yourself.

than: I noticed you seem to think that some rules exist for naming? I think you linked to a Wikipedia guide somewhere but could not find it right now. That is Wikipedia, not this Wiki. ;) 
Adding Hack Info 
http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=37116&start=275

I started this page and added an example. Please add more to it! 
 
spirit: i'll try to merge the old and new ones. i have no idea how to reply to you on the wiki itself. :P 
 
Edit the page and add a new line with a : in front makes nice thread discussion. More :: as applicable. :D

Thanks!

I will run a script to convert all the variables and entities that were added in the old wiki with a upper case first character to the "proper" capitalisation later. Only Scampie voted against it and that ain't enough! ;) 
Screenshots 
If you add screenshots of any kind in articles, please make sure they are bright enough for everyone (=increased brightness and contrast)! Keep in mind there are different types of monitors and settings, and the pictures are shown on a white background which further influences their visibility.

Currently, some of the pictures are very dark, too dark in my view. Than's level shots are good, though. 
Cases 
While capitalized entities look strange to me, too, I'm inclined to vote against lowercase articles. If only for the sake of compatibility. Why are the level names ("e1m1") lower case as well?! 
 
And adjust that in-game for best quality. Gamma 0.8 should be good. I would NOT alter brightness and contrast.

About level names: I asked before, why should they be uppercase? 
And What Compatibility To What? 
 
 
In the source, all is lowercase: http://inside3d.com/browse.php?show=world.qc 
 
And you clearly never tried to "map E1M1". 
General Wiki Style 
 
Capitals And Names 
Remember that in the quake console font, both upper and lower case letters are rendered as uppercase letters of different sizes. This probably explains the difference between people who are internally converting "&#7431;1&#7437;1" into "E1M1" and the people who convert "&#7431;1&#7437;1" into "e1m1".

Obviously the solution is to use the small-caps unicode characters to render them as they appear in the console: &#7431;1&#7437;1 
Upper/lower Case 
I can't see a time when you'd ever need both for the articles. Having everything lower case seems like the best idea. 
Yes 
It needs to be consistent. Either all capitalized or all lower case, but not mixed as it is now. There've already been accidental duplicates and there're going to be more without a consensus.

Regardless of the ingame font, the levels have always been named E1M1 since Doom or even Wolfenstein, so it can be considered a common convention, I think. 
 
Just make some consensus as how to capitalise multiple word titles. Case solved?

The was one conflict (vanilla quake) I know of. Other problems are only because the old articles are first letter upper case.


Quake is case-sensitive and so are many file systems. Try "map E1M1" in the console. 
 
Meanwhile, I've messed up the Recent Changes list. 
 
in a way like messing up the hair of a wonderful girl though. nice!

I don't remember, should those have a gpl header?

clearly the wiki needs quakec syntax highlighting. there are extensions with geshi, anyone know of an add-on for that or something?

spawn is a great example for case sensitivity. we could have spawn for the function and Spawn for the monster. with cross links. no one ever would get confused by that!! 
Consistency 
I actually prefer 100% lower case, since it's 100% unambiguous, whereas with upper case, you have to worry about the correct case of a word with regard to the sentence it's in, which leads to grammatical errors creeping into article titles and grammar Nazi's getting angry*.

The article title can be fixed using {{DISPLAYTITLE:Correct Title with _Underscores_ and all}}, although I found this sometimes doesn't work...

* I am not a grammar Nazi, since I like the qualifications to be one. 
What Features Does The Wiki Support Exactly? 
I'm trying to get conditionals to work:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:If#Conditional_expressions
{{#if: {{{parameter_not_null}}} | yes | no }

No luck yet. Are they supported?

Starbuck: Are you thinking of changing the style of the tables etc. that we are using? It might be good to make a couple of test css classes for tables and infoboxes so that we can use them for our templates. I don't know how to do it and it's best if you think about it since you've been doing the overall site design. 
 
You can see installed extensions at http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Special:Version

I will install that one right now.

Be aware that Wikipedia is a website that uses Mediawiki. So if you want to google about functionality, google for "mediawiki something". Then it should be more easy to see what is supported out of the box. Confusion´┐Ż. 
 
spirit, don't bother converting the old ones, it'll just make it harder to make the entries because i'll have to go check if they are good and then reformat them to fit the current format i'm using (java api). 
 
Too late! You posted that just as I ran the script.

I dumped a list of conflicts here: http://quakewiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Necros

Some are conflicts with than's stuff too. 
Thanks! 
As I was testing, I noticed that #if is now supported!

http://quakewiki.org/wiki/monster_shalrath

The content is a bit dodgy, but I'm trying to tidy up the page template a bit.

By the way, who is Hectate? Does he post on func or hang out in #terrafusion? Would be useful to be able to contact him more easily. 
 
No idea but he is in #qc regularly (irc.anynet.org).

I love what you are doing with the monster&entity pages! 
Spirit 
Thanks :) Hectate seems to be doing lots of things around entities too, and I probably wouldn't have done anything today if there wasn't a big yellow banner on the entity list saying it's an area we are focussing on.

monster_shalrath is the entity page. I think someone (negke?) suggested that we should keep the mapping and playing info separate, and I agree. I haven't touched the Monster pages. I think negke said he was looking into improving various images though.

By the way, if anyone has more suggestions for extra information on entities, it would be great to hear (or just add it yourself ;) ) 
Actually 
I didn't suggest it, only wondered which was better approach, since they are currently separate. Come to think about it, though, it seems like a better idea to have a single page for those entries that allow it. For example, the items and monsters, possibly even all entities.

The reason is a player is interested in how an item looks and what it does. A mapper is interested in how in its technical aspects. Both kinds of information can easily be on the same page: basic stuff first, advanced stuff below. Just like Wikipedia does it. There's no point in keep most pages separate just to have some additional technical info on one.

The existing pages for items require a rewrite, anyway, so this would be an opportunity. 
Note To Self: 
Learn to use the Preview function. Also on the Wiki. 
Hmm 
Well, I don't mind putting everything on one page as long as it's all neatly formatted and the section relevant to regular players is not cluttered by mapper stuff.

Note sure how to provide a nice clean separation of the two, but I guess to a mapper, both parts of the information are relevant.

Personally, I would have the regular gameplay related stuff at the top, with monster stats, an image, trivia, etc. and then a section at the underneath with the entity name, technical details and suggestions for how it could be used in a map. Detailed tutorials should probably be on other pages though, linked from the monster or entity page, and also the tutorials page.

Not really in the mood to make a test page though, so if you have any ideas, just get working on them. If you do, I think it's best to make an example from an entity which doesn't have information up right now. Everything's a bit of a mess and we have a bunch of pages with different formats, but I think that's fine until we settle on one style. The information is the important thing - formatting can be changed fairly easily. 
 
When I did the item_sigil, func_episodegate and func_bossgate page creation\edits I put the basic description of what it did in the original game on top, a typical .fgd entry in the middle and then a short description of how it did it in the original game on the bottom. I thought that this closest fit a typical Wikipedia entry.

There were no other entity pages at the time to go by as this was on day one of the Quakewiki being editable. 
 
oh well... the old articles are not that good anyway. 
Necros 
I kind of agree. Some of them made some assumptions on the baseline level of knowledge of the reader. Ideally I think that in the end if someone has a question someone else could point them to the specific Wiki page that addressed their questions and that Wiki page would be properly linked to other pages.

For example if a page is discussing a specific brush entity then a simple link to a page describing what a brush entity is (without the details in regards to using them in specific situations) would save a lot of time and space. That way someone who already knows what it is won't have to slog through unnecessary text to get to what they need to know.

For the more technical stuff like editing progs.dat and QuakeC then I would think that there would be some assumption of basic knowledge in regards to coding and so on before tackling those subjects. 
 
yeah, i'm just going to rewrite them all anyway (if i do them) because they are not verbose enough in most cases and don't have a proper way of documenting function arguments and return values. 
 
I really like the separation between Gamer and Editor focus. If I visit a website, I do not want to scroll. I want the information I am looking for right there. 
Spirit 
I argued that too, but in the end, negke convinced me that having each separate is just silly, as one of the good points of having a wiki page is being able to learn EVERYTHING about an object. It also seems silly to have 2 smaller pages about 1 object. Like how much are you really going to write about Rockets?

So now I am in favor of pages which are about "Rockets" (for example), with everything there is to do with Rockets as a player and as a designer on a single page, and the page "item_rockets" forwards to the appropriate section of the "Rockets" page. 
 
Good work so far, guys. I'm digging the site, layout, and especially the logo. The logo is just perfect, whoever did it.

BTW, I noticed a couple of people sign up today--when checking the "Recent Activity" page(at bottom of left menu). They look like bots. Wayne66P&#8206;, and Priscilla 
 
Admins, can you add a captcha to the registration process to stop the spambots? 
Combined Monster Info + Entity Info Page 
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Test:Vore

feedback would be helpful. If this is better than two pages, we can go through and do everything like this. 
Feedback 
The pic is broken - either that or that vore has a serious problem with her legs. 
Yep :( 
We are going to replace the pics at some point. The existing pictures are all fucked up.

If you have any comments specifically regarding the combination of monster and entity information it would be especially helpful. 
 
The pics have some weird transparency settings which is a shame because they are very nice otherwise. I tried replacing the empty bits with black but that is not the right colour. 
Than 
Looks fine to me (image aside). 
 
I think that page looks excellent. I didn't notice the broken legs until someone mentioned it (above).

The information you're written on is really cool.

I like the entity information, but I don't like "duplicate content" -- I fear we will have an entity section of the site, where we would already have entity information there as well, therefore having duplicate content.

Your thoughts on that? 
Pictures 
You could make pretty good pictures with TrenchBroom if you disable the entity bounds and classnames. Then it will only display the model. You can even change the background color to whatever you want by adding a value to the preferences file. 
TB 
yeah, it was something Negke and I considered. I couldn't use it on this machine though, since models don't render in the 3d view properly. I'll take a pic and put it on the tracker tonight.

Negke said he made a plain white map for taking pics, and he already started doing the monsters, so maybe he'll do the others too.

Spirit: should we be using gif or png for images or does it not matter? 
Use Noesis To Take The Shots 
http://oasis.xentax.com/index.php?content=downloads

I used this to take shots of the Quakeguy. It can open basically every format known to man, and displays animation frames and such so you can pose the enemies as you want. 
 
png! please try to use gamma in the app you capture in rather than changing it later. negke's item pictures look pretty bad imo. what I really like about the current images is that they are not the boring idle stance. 
Oops 
Well, I used png, but since I am currently stuck on my very small, crappy windows xp laptop, I was only able to take shots using QME, which doesn't have a very nice zoom function, so the shots I took are not especially well sized.

I've used the naming format monster_<game>_<monster_name>.png for all images, and the size is 640x640 for everything. Some of the images could use zooming in, so if someone else wants to fix them, that would be most helpful, otherwise I might do it in the future. Perhaps they are too dark also, since I didn't change the brightness at all.

I went through all the standard Quake monster pages and updated the images and added the new monster infobox format. I did not add other information about the entity or clean up the description text at all. 
More Shit 
ok, so the page for the Vore is mostly done, although it needs a better image, and it would be nice to have more information with extra in game pictures perhaps?

I also added the entity information (no detailed usage tips etc. though) for the Zombie, Grunt and Shambler and set up redirects from the old monster_shambler etc. pages to the new entity information section of each monster page.

I was actually going to do some mapping tonight, but there is no time left now :/

Please help fill in the information if you have any time. 
Linking Files 
By the way, I also thought briefly about how we might link files to the wiki for direct map or map page links that don't have to be manually changed if some site goes down. Quaddicted and Quaketastic seem to be the best and most reliable Quake file hosts, and hopefully neither of them will go down, but just in case they do in the future, I thought it would be good to link files via template instead of direct url. In case you are linking a map on the wiki, please use this template I set up:
{{file_map
| file = e1m1rmx
| text = e1m1 remixed
}}
file is the filename of the map, sans extension.
text is a description that will appear on the page, though it can be omitted and the filename + extension will appear in its place:
{{file_map | file=e1m1rmx}} > e1m1rmx.zip
{{file_map | file=e1m1rmx | text=e1m1 remixed}} > e1m1 remixed

The template I set up is here: http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Template:file_map

I would like to set up other templates for tutorial files and stuff, which would hopefully be hosted on quaketastic. It would be nice to have a tutorial or wiki_files folder on there if an admin is reading this ;) 
Images 
The special thing about the item screenshots I made is that all of them are taken from the exact same angle. The different sizes of the images makes placing them on the wiki pages awkward, though. I only realized this afterwards. They may also be a tad too bright. But on the other hand, the monster shots are somewhat too dark. Apart from monitor differences, you have to keep in mind they are displayed on a white background which creates a stark contrast. This makes them harder to see (darker) than they would be on a normal screenshot. Apart from that, they are good, although they could be displayed slightly downscaled. 
PNG Format 
My issue with png screenshots is the filesize. I often come across game screenshots with small or medium resolution but a huge filesize, which always feels very inappropriate. It does seem to work for the monster shots since the images are 'only' 30-50 kb. 
 
You can reduce the bit depth of PNG files too (GIF is 8 bit!) but even better yet you can always run compression tools on them if your software did not automatically do that. Easily saves 20%+. I could do that on the server every now and then.

I really regret going with small JPEG screenshots at Quaddicted so ...

Don't be like me, don't OCD those images angles. ;)

negke, I meant that your item images are very low on contrast. Did you change their gamma/curve or brightness/contrast? 
 
Usually only gif or png is used for images that are simple, such as solid colored shapes, or gradients.

But, for actual pictures, jpeg is what is recommended. Just don't over-optimize it.

Also note that sometimes an 8-bit png can be smaller than a jpeg, and actually be smaller than gif.

I doubt we need a transparent background for these. Do we really? Could just use white background, therefore no need for 24-bit alpha png.

I use Adobe Photoshop and CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+S to Save for Web, and you select the format you want and set the quality on the slider, and you can see preview of size in KB in the bottom left corner of the window. 
 
Yes, we definitely want a transparent background so the images can be used on non-white backgrounds.

JPEG makes non-filtered Quake screenshots look quite bad but otherwise, sure it is useful. 
Maybe We Can Borrow These? 
http://quakeone.com/reforged/bestiary.html

They are a bit small but aren't they wonderful? :)

If it's got to be transparent backgrounds and we need nice big pictures then png is the way forwards. I'm sure it can be achieved with a magic wand tool and a bit of tweaking.

#procrastination 
 
If we maintain non-anti-aliasing, and stick to pixelated graphics--which I would prefer because that's the original vanilla style anyways--then you could get away with doing transparent backgronds using 8-bit png then.

Unless you're linking these images onto other sites, or unless you're implementing a themes or styles system for the quakewiki.org--where a person can change their theme of the website--, then I don't see why you need transparent backgrounds. I think the template of quakewiki.org would stay the same forever. I personally would set the default background of these to be black though.

Who ever does them, could also just save his/her own source files with transparent backgrounds, and should the time come to switch the backgrounds, then he/she could just open their source files and re-export the images again with a different background.

Meh. 
 
But since we're not doing jpegs, then non-transparent backgrounds don't really matter anyways for optimization reasons, because the filesize ends up being the same anyways for 8-bit transparent pngs or 8-bit non-transparent pngs. 
Please God 
no animated gifs! They distract from the text way too much. 
Info 
The images I uploaded are all png 8-bit and saved out with save for web in Photoshop CS2. They probably do not have any image tags, though I didn't check. The removal of image tags with some image formats can take 30-50kb of the filesize, amazingly enough.

I tried to keep the angles similar, but with the monsters I think it's best to try and get a decent silhouette rather than be a slave to the angle of the first screenshot taken.

My only problem withe shots is that in some the monsters don't fill the canvas nicely because I was using QME, and perhaps they are a little too dark.

I vote for (non-animating) pngs also! 
Lovecraft 
If someone who knows a lot about Lovecraft wants to add some kind of section to each Lovecraftian monster that explains the connection, that would be cool by the way ;)

It might be worth looking at Kell's site, since I think he had an article up about Lovecraft in Quake.

Here it is: http://www.quaddicted.com/webarchive/kell.quaddicted.com/stuff_lovecraftinquake.html 
Added All The Monster Entity Info 
I only added basic entity info, so more information is required. Also, there are probably some errors in there (especially bosses), so maybe someone could check them over.

The layouts are all squished at the moment because there isn't enough content in each article.

I haven't added redirects from the monster_<name> pages yet either. Feel free to do so ;) ;) ;) 
 
What would be the best way to store detailed entity information? A description of each key, of each entity, and examples, and perhaps screenshots and "before and after" screenshots.

Would it go here? http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Entity_guide

Can someone do one entity as an example, and set a format/template for people to follow for doing the other entities?

E.g. Patrolling enemies.
E.g. Lights, Spotlights, and all types of lights. 
 
Check out than's recent edits. 
Deqer 
I've been trying to set a standard for entities so that we can get them all done over the next few weeks. I thought originally that just having a page specific to the entity was best, but a lot of people seem to prefer to have general information about the actual thing the entity represents in game on the same page, so I have combined the monster and monster entity information on the same page now. This information is still quite basic and volunteers are needed to increase the amount of information and improve its quality.

For things that don't have recogniseable in-game thing, such as triggers and lights, I'm not sure how to organise the information yet, but perhaps they should stay as they are. For example, info_player start remains on the page it's on now, and probably the same for others such as func_door, func_button etc. with no redirect.

I also want to add some example maps that show off some of the basic entities and get some very simple tutorials added. Scampie has written a short introduction tutorial, and in addition there are plenty of old tutorials that can be used as inspiration. Most editor guides also have some good information contained in them.

We will need simple tutorials for things like patrolling enemies etc. and I think these can probably be written up on the entity pages themselves as long as the usage is fairly standard. A short description of setting up path_corners for patrolling enemies could be placed on the path_corner page, for example.

Once all this stuff starts to be added, we will need to improve the organisation of the wiki. One area in particular is to make sure articles are cross-linked better and the index pages need to be much improved and split off into separate games and mods instead of the mess that they are in now.

Here are some reasonably complete example entity pages:

http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Vore
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/func_door

Both are likely to be expanded and improved in the future, but everything on a wiki is pretty much work in progress anyway, so don't worry so much about exact formatting as it's the article content that is most important. 
 
I fleshed out the door page a bit. 
Func_door_secret 
I added some stuff to the talk page for this. I haven't edited a wiki before so I decided to dip my toes and just put things in the talk section. 
I Find This Is Also Invaluable 
 
I've had a few random thoughts related to the Steam guides for Quake that I've been maintaining.

( http://steamcommunity.com/id/jlaw/myworkshopfiles/?section=guides&appid=2310 )

quakewiki.org has (so far) an emphasis on editing, and the Steam guides don't, but there's some other areas of common coverage. So...

- I'll add quakewiki.org to the guides' lists of external links. Should I wait on that a bit until it is more public-ready?

- Is there any issue with deep-linking to a particular wiki page? E.g. linking directly to the description of QuakeWorld, or the console commands list if/when it gets fleshed out, etc.

As for any transfer of info/content from the guides to the wiki... nothing jumps out at me right away for easy C&P, but maybe there's some useful bits about engine installation and configuration.


(BTW does everyone else see the "Unexpected non-MediaWiki exception" on the main page and some other pages?) 
 
I guess in its current state the wiki is too incomplete for proper linking. At least the basics should be covered (in a suitable way) before going "live", imo.

I sometimes get that error message, too. 
 
Is that error message any more verbose?

Dunno about publicity really, it might just die again if we don't post it.

Linking directly where you want to link is absolutely how everyone should do it! 
Somone's Dropbox Pic Is On Every Wiki Page! 
"https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7216632/quakewiki/gradientNOPE.png"

Maybe this URL is in the "theme"? 
Attempt #2 
This is the URL since the addy got cutoff 
Error Message 
Shift-F5 cleared it up.

If you're still curious though, this was appearing after the closing html tag: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11690738/temp/quakewiki_error.txt 
Server 
Spirit, why is the Wiki so incredibly slow? 
Cause I Am Mining Bitcoin On It. 
I will look into it some day. http://www.xdebug.org/ and https://github.com/jokkedk/webgrind look really awesome. 
Spirit 
Does that mean it's going to stay slow like this? 
 
Finally had a quick look and I an puzzled what is going on. I hope it is not Mediawiki being complete shit and useless when used with Sqlite... 
 
Turning it off and on again did not help, I have now enabled mediawiki's built-in profiling. Let's see if it points at something. 
 
Should be fixed, sorry about that. 
 
XML dump of today, please save this tiny piece of knowledge:

https://www.quaddicted.com/stuff/quakewiki_dumpBackup_20130522.xml.gz 
Link Page 
Isn't time this was on the func_ link page? 
 
I just made Starbuck's awesome CSS skin local to the wiki so loading is faster. Thank you for this great piece of work, makes the Wiki appear really special! 
Site Is Slow? 
It's connected and says "Waiting for quakewiki.org..." forever.

Then I have wait "forever" again (after it redirects to http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Main_Page).

Then once the page starts drawing the assets (such as the background), each asset is taking forever to load.

Is there a rewrite problem going on, or something?

This site used to load instantly, couple months ago. 
Path_corner 
Well, the site is running fast now. Not sure what was going on there.

Anyways, I've submitted some information for path_corner: http://quakewiki.org/wiki/path_corner

Feel free to update/clean it up, using the recommended template here: http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Quake_Wiki:Entity_documentation_project 
Path_corner 
I updated it with the info on how you get monsters to stop at the last path_corner. 
 
So, was this mostly a massive waste of time or what? 
 
Only in so much as any community documentation effort is. It is an older game, but the wiki is still nice, things just fall off of people's radar with their various obligations. When I got into Quake my main concern was a class bully, now I've got a career and a family and much more. I suspect this fell off of my radar partially because I was under the impression it wasn't "Ready For Public Use" despite being up yet. Maybe I will write some things for it soon, but that will always be a maybe. 
 
I had completely forgotten about it actually. 
 
The wiki looks gorgeous. I looked at engines and its like "Official engines" ... yadayada ... "Netquake".... "CD-ROM in 1997 by MacSoft" ... yada.

Get to the fucking monkey already! 
Stevenaaus 
A wiki lives from user contribution. 
 
Maybe stats will motivate some people? https://www.quaddicted.com/stuff/quakewiki-stats/index.html

Sorry about the missing days. 
 
The wiki is getting spammed badly. I am looking for a caring admin. 
 
 
Migrated to the new server, if http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Quake_Wiki:Log says "Site moved to new server.", then your DNS update was quick. 
 
Slower than Shambler's brain now, not sure why, no time at the moment. Since it is in a container now, giving someone else access is easy now. If you would like to help running the server-side part of it, please step up. Backups are with LordHavoc and SleepwalkR. 
 
Echoes From The Void 
Would people be interested in doing something like a concentrated "Day of Wiki Update" where we pick corners and polish the Wiki to up-to-date information? 
Hmm 
I seem to have forgotten my password, and I didn't get a password reset mail when I requested one.

Anyway, I would like to help somehow. I guess I kind of lost interest before because I was fighting against the wiki code and also stressing about how to organise some of the often excessive levels of info in the map pages (Like map walkthoughs etc.) 
 
Oh bollocks, I forgot to set up mail. 
Still Haven't Setup Mail, Not Sure What Is Broken About It Anyways 
Updated http://quakewiki.org/wiki/pak0.pak#Versions and http://quakewiki.org/wiki/pak1.pak

tell me or update them if you have different ones 
Holy Procrastination 
Mails should work now for notifications, password resets etc. 
 
Also 
Someone should compare the word count in this thread with the word count of new stuff added to the wiki (excluding Scampewpew's mapping guide). 
 
Does anyone want to take over administring the Wiki? It has some trouble with the sqlite database being locked by some maintenance jobs (don't ask me, crazy software...) which is why it often infinitely loads... The site is inside a openvz container so I could give you shell access to that. 
What Has To Be Done 
and how often? 
 
The big problem is figuring out what is wrong with it. I have no idea how and where to look in mediawiki. Their IRC was of no help. I spent some time today trying to figure it out but no luck.

Afterwards it would be nothing I could not automate or handle myself.

Alternatively the solution would be to just re-install the whole thing and use mariadb instead of sqlite... 
Spirit 
If you allow me to move it to my server, I could give it a shot. We can set up mirroring to your machine for backup and archiving.

Also, I'd much prefer using mysql as the underlying DB. 
 
mariadb is mysql but with extra features and fixes. it's essentially the same, you can even connect to it with mysql drivers. 
Ah 
Thanks. 
Runs Well Now I Think, I Disabled Automatic Maintenance Jobs 
Procrastinating with some house cleaning: I deleted lots of useless redirects and found some duplicate pages:

Anyone wanna merge http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Start into http://quakewiki.org/wiki/start

What about http://quakewiki.org/wiki/item_armorinv and http://quakewiki.org/wiki/item_armorInv ?

There are lots of duplicates of QC functions from confusion about the case.

http://quakewiki.org/wiki/bprint
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/break
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/checkclient
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/dprint
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/droptofloor
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/error
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/find
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/findradius
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/ftos
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/lightstyle
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/makevectors
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/normalize
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/objerror
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/random
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/remove
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/setmodel
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/setorigin
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/setsize
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/sound
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/spawn_(function)
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/sprint
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/stuffcmd
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/traceline
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/vectoyaw
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/vlen
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/vtos
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/walkmove

vs the sometimes a bit more wordy

http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Bprint
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Break
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Checkclient
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Dprint
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Droptofloor
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Error
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Find
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Findradius
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Ftos
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Lightstyle
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Makevectors
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Normalize
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Objerror
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Random
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Remove
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Setmodel
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Setorigin
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Setsize
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Sound
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Spawn_(function)
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Sprint
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Stuffcmd
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Traceline
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Vectoyaw
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Vlen
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Vtos
http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Walkmove

I already merged some of the Firstletteruppercase ones into necros' but if someone wants to join in, please do. I am working bottom up. 
These Are Remaining 
Renewed The Domain For The Next Year 
 
 
Kind of surprised to see how many articles haven't been written. 
 
yeah, i went on there for a couple of entity descriptions and they were missing. :(

so i just pasted the block comment for the quaked def because I'm a lazy bum! 
When I Think Of Lazy Bum 
I definitely think of Necros 
 
Installed a Let's Encrypt certificate so the site is now available under https://quakewiki.org/

I need to remove that dependency on the external font, can't find where it is referenced though, stupid me.

I will force HTTPS later this year unless people give a valid reason not to. This will lock out some users: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication#No_support 
 
Font fixed, tell me if there are any other external URLs embedded so I can neuter them.

HTTPS seems kind of forced already, oh well, realistic testing. 
 
Anyone up for some concentrated editing/structuring session on December 25th? I have no commitments that day. Alternatively some christmas coop? 
 
So who thinks that Spirit will edit the wiki instead of playing coop? 
Sorry, It's Actually The 26th Where I Am Free 
I will probably rather not do anything and eat lots of chocolate. 
Quakewiki.org Offline 
What's going on with the site? Getting 404

Was going to look up the toggle spawnflag and now I have to ask the scary ppl on this forum. 
 
 
It is editable again. 
To Celebrate 
I made an entry this morning in command lines section. Will try and contribute regularly. I encourage more experienced members of func also help out - it's a great setup. 
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