To Kick Things Off:
(AKA I want to have Sock's babies, well he does have a point.)
(AKA I've played this enough to actually get some of the secrets this time. Personally I disagree with some of this - I didn't find it too cramped, I thought the large variety of secrets was good and actually preferable to Sock's buttons, and the end room is fine, even the demo shows various escape routes and tactics)
Love Daz's Channel
It's great comfort viewing, and seeing as I'm too lazy to open Quake nowadays, it's a good way to live vicariously through Darren Weekes.
The level design / mapping theory chat is brilliant I agree. I've definitely learned a fair bit, despite my best efforts.
Keep this shit up dazzo, you're gonna be a star
I think you're being a bit harsh about the layout on that one Daz. A lot of current maps have linear-ish layouts and a lot of them have structures you can't reach, to give the impression of being in a bigger area/building than you actually are....it's fairly normal?? And this map does compensate for it with a lot of varied secrets.
Good points about all the little niggles with buttons and stuff, also I like how you don't slag off the gameplay in this because I agree for the most part it's good fun.
BTW it is possible to get SNG + Quad +3Nail in this, makes the ending excellent.
The issue I had is that there are lots of areas in the map where the player *should* have been able to progress in a non-linear fashion but there were giant obvious clip brushes preventing this. I hate that! :)
For me the level would have been straight up better if these clip brushes had been replaced with solid walls or perhaps barred windows or something. It's psychological I guess :)
Clip brushes are not the way. This isn't a shitty modern on-rails game!
with daz on the clip brush placement, having an invisible forcefield is always a bad move when it looks easily accessible. I tried for a good 5 minutes trying to jump through a few of those gaps (mostly to see if there were secret areas).
MFX should probably should have added glass or a textured wall there.
Or a knee-high ledge without attaching a third-person animation!
Thanks for promoting Daz' videos, I neglected to watch them recently but really enjoyed watching some today.
Always good commentary, even if I disagree at points.
Just Watched Mfxsp6
Agree with Shambler, but also am glad you put up your review. Hopefully it'll inspire him to test a bit more with the next one... where did mfx go, anyway?
with, at least what my GF says, a 'sexy voice'....
Don�t die 10.000 feet below
tbh i like Daz�s videos, they are teacherous at some point, which actually helps a lot!
And at the other hand, he shares his insights about leveldesign, which offers nearly everytime a totally new view on some issues...(to me).
DaZ yeah, keep on doing this!
An Array Of Squares That Change Colour 30 Times A Second
A past and future secret by Matthias Worch and Negke - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR4O_VFfUUo
Nice One Daz. P.s. Add It To Map News Thread Too.
You've highlighted all the gameplay qualities well. I like you describing the Ogre corridor as very "classic Quake" - that sums up what I liked about this map, that a lot of the gameplay trickery and ambushes felt like how Quake felt for the first time - subtle little tricks and surprises that keep adding spice throughout the map.
I too really liked the silver key area. I know neggers was agonising over that to try to make it interesting but palatable to most players, and it worked well.
You can just straight jump to the GL BTW.
My memories of the original BB were a lot about the (as Shambler says) "subtle little tricks and surprises that keep adding spice", so it was nice that this release had the same spirit.
ogre cages really did me over - it's rare that the bounce of their projectiles is used horizontally.
Nice demo as usual ;)
....very good video, thank you!
Carved In Flesh
By Shaun "[Kona]" Ross - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFTtEB4qC3s
I would have done a single video for all 3 maps but my internet has been dodgy as shit lately so smaller uploads = good atm. Part 2 coming as soon as I can figure out how to give myself the custom weapons used in this mod with console commands :P
you can resume uploads to youtube, I think up to 24h. just upload the same file again and it will continue where you left. At least with chromium.
Doesn't seem to work so well with FF I guess. Had a whole bunch of dead uploads :P
Will have to try chrome again soon!
I like the channel as well. The intro on Trenchbroom was what pulled me into the Q1 mapping scene again.
The Ivory Tower By Sock
Well Derped As Usual.
I like the gameplay review, although I found the map pretty easy, I do agree on the style of it.
Couple of things:
"Shortcut activated" is always a shortcut to somewhere you've already been.
The navigation in the first mine - there is only one route there! You're right that after the SK door it gets potentially more confusing.
Nice comments about the arena and the rockwork too. Astute!
for the video review, some very good comments about the navigation. It is so easy to forget when designing maps that other will not know the map inside out.
Thanks for mentioning the func thread, it might be helpful to add the thread link to the video about section? then anyone who is interested can read the comments.
Youtube is nob ended and cuts off the description too early, I'll move links to the top :P
MFXSP17 (fixed Version)
Good analysis of the design progression and map details. It is a bloody good-looking map.
I didn't think the dogs were much of a problem before. "Slightly tricky" rather than "very very poor" IMO.
I enjoyed watching that more than I enjoyed playing it myself
I think i enjoyed watching that more, than making it all by myself..
@DaZ, nice video! Priceless commentary, thank you! Glad you liked the tweaked version even more;).
Oh, and the models were not made by me, i think its not clearly been said at one point (you admiring the screens).
All props to preach..
Narwahlhotep By Tronyn
The low gravity e1m8 inspired rancid decaying squelchy flesh pit of doom <-- easier to say than the real map title ;)
I admit I died on the SK crusher as well, with pretty much the same thought - "It's not really gonna kill me just like that is it?"
Guilty Of Dying The Same Way.
But Daz likes dying to traps. :p
When you see a wet paint sign. You just have to make sure, for some reason.
Yep, same. But I had the foresight to turn on god mode just incase 8-) (and then I just went, fuck it, and kept it on, haha).
I quick saved just beforehand, cos I know how Tronyn maps.... Then jumped on the sk pedestal and waited the split second of escape time.
Tronyn, don't follow through on the threat of stopping mapping. They never disappoint.
And Now I Have To Admit...
.. I'll never be able to do such a beautiful map... awesome... it reminds me a little bit of end map of Half Life...
The Horde Of Derper
A few nitpicks: I think it's pronounced Nee-ar-la-thoh-tepp by Troh-nin.
The mod all the new Tronyn maps are based on is called Drake - it's just that the latest version is only available through Something Wicked. For BSP2 maps, the new version of QuakeSpasm should be a better (esp. more beginner-friendly) engine recommendation than RMQ. Though not sure the QS website has the download page updated already.
I'm disappointed you stopped after the SK crusher (quicksave??) and didn't even return to the map at a later point. Missed quite a lot of the map, especially the opening of the pyramid which is quite an epic moment. In consequence, this feels like bit of a lazy effort.
I'm surprised how smoothly you got through. But then again, you say that was your fourth or fifth attempt, so it makes sense. Your video makes the initial arena fight in the second map looks so easy... well, I guess it is once you know what you're up against. I think in my first run I approached a few of the fights the wrong way; best example is the mummy/morph fight in the first map where jumping for the Quad damage seems to be the favorable action.
By The Way
The camera ride in the intro sequence is very nice, especially how it ends at the Sphinx face in the morph arena. I'd still really love to see a Quake compilation video similar to the one you did for HL2!
The video is very good. I thought in some earlier videos the game volume was a little bit too low; here, it seems mostly okay.
Nicely played and good commentary. One thing you didn't mention explicitly is that the SK areas can be reached in two ways as well - either by opening the SK doors, or through certain secrets or by climbing over ledges.
There seems to be an issue with the outro links in FF26 which also occured in the Nyarlathotep video and possibly others: the borders for the three link images show up too early, way before the actual outro stuff appears. I think it's related to another issue in FF26 that causes the text cursor to appear in places where it shouldn't, e.g. the forum overview. Maybe there's a way for you to adjust the videos so as to work around it, or maybe it'll change in the next version. Just thought I'd let you know.
It's not a FF thing, I see the same link behavior in Mac Chrome.
They're probably getting their devs from the same pool of idiots as eBay.
I think the Quakespasm release happened after I had finished the nyar video but yes, I'll be recommending that in future.
You're right, I should have finished the second map of nyar but after a lot of attempts the level had really pissed me off and I didn't want to play it any more :)
About annotations. Not sure if its a yt bug or a browser bug but this happens occasionally. The timings will be perfect in the annotations editor but they get pushed live the timings change :( I've fixed the annotations on Zendar and will keep an eye out for this in future :)
I would like to do a Quake compilation video yes. I need to do some r&d on getting smooth camera movements etc using a floating camera and then select some maps. I might do a "17 years of Quake" video and select one map from each year and do around 20-30 seconds of flythrough for each. That still ends up being longer than i'd like but any shorter and you aren't going to see the levels :)
I video compilation of the best SP maps of Quake would be terrific. It could help me to convince an old friend to play Quake1, instead of searching for a descent "modern" game.
>I might do a "17 years of Quake" video and select one map from each year and do around 20-30 seconds of flythrough for each. That still ends up being longer than i'd like but any shorter and you aren't going to see the levels :)
yes, please! would do some justice to this great game
The "one map from each year" thing might end up forcing you into some horrible decisions, so feel free to break that rule. :-)
The Evolution Of Quake
I think a vid covering the milestones of Quake would be good. The engines, tools, maps and mods.
Rather than a map a year I'd do what in that year moved Quake forward.
>I think a vid covering the milestones of Quake would be good. The engines, tools, maps and mods.
that's more like a documentary at that point.. would be a great one for sure, if someone has the time, disposition and talent to do it
Just watched the video, really enjoyed it, it's nice to just see it played and appreciate how stunning the design is :)
Shamblers And Shit
..would have preferred it if there had been a ledge to get back down...
Or a teleporter right behind you? ;)
While I generally agree on the point about the lack of ambient sounds, it's not always so easy in Quake. The few existing sounds are either base- or nature-themed which doesn't fit in some areas. Quoth only adds two new ambient sounds and they aren't very versatile, either. So the only real alternative, and in a way this is sort of a workaround, is the use of flames/torches for some fire ambience.
However, this is where the soundtrack comes in, because it adds an extra layer of ambience, artificial as it may be (as in not directly linked to the specific environment), and neatly fills the gaps in the level ambience. This, among other reasons, it's generally recommended to play with it running in the background - it enriches the experience. Though I suppose not many people play with, not even the authors themselves, considering how many maps are released without a pre-set cd track. Should be used in CG videos, too.
Daz, are you aware of how the armors work in Quake? In this video there were several occasions where you picked up or went for a weaker armor than the one you currently had without considering possible disadvantages. Or maybe this was only because you had played the map so many times that it didn't matter?
The timing of the outro borders is completely wrong again. They already appear when picking up the Quad damage and all the way through the boss fight.
Btw. is there a miiggahealth in HL2? :)
Fixed the annotations. I don't know why that happens :(
Very true RE: Music. I should start adding in the music in post like I used to do.
I just pick up the armours. Gotta get all the shiny things.
I Watched You Video On Skacky's First Map.
Keep them coming!
Green Bricks N Shit
Crescendo Of Dreams by Necros (2005) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eorkno5UXrA
Also, I got a proper mic this week and this is the first video I've recorded with it, so any feedback on voice quality etc is appreciated. I've been tweaking knobs for some time but I'm sure it can be improved.
I've been tweaking knobs for some time
The quality is much higher.
Good review / critique as well.
Also, I got a proper mic this week and this is the first video I've recorded with it, so any feedback on voice quality etc is appreciated
The quality of your voice on the video is much better than before.
I always got the impression that "Crescendo of Dreams" was a test map for Quoth features (sound fx, wave spawning, rotating brushwork) with its symmetrical layout and over use of powerful Quoth monsters. I think the doom architecture and level design is a favourite of necros, because I have seen it before in his other maps.
It was definitely meant to showcase quoth features (it was released at the same time as quoth). Totally overshadowed by Kell's much better Red777 though, but that's alright.
It had some neat things in it which I am still happy with now but also a fair bit of bad. I think you were a little too forgiving, Daz, but thanks for the review nonetheless.
I Love That Map
I think it holds up pretty well.
I adore the Doom green brick theme and was happy to see it done so well in Quake, along with all the trademark Necros designs like machinery, imposing outdoor areas, etc.
I'm not so much a fan of the green brick... but I love the wood textures
Coagula By Tim Elek
12:45:39 | <onetruepurple> scumbag daz
12:45:43 | <onetruepurple> talks about space maps
12:45:50 | <onetruepurple> doesnt mention hipdm1
The first void space HIPDM1 map was in the Quake expansion pack "Scourge of Armagon" in 1997 developed by Richard 'Levelord' Gray .
I am a bit disappointed that Daz does not know about Levelord
as he was the inspiration for many "popular" map styles.
like maps with penises in them
@Lunaran, Yes Levelord did a crazy p0rn map called Assault
but this is not the sum total of his work. He also did the first black void map and the first Alice style, "small player in large world" map behind Zee bookcase
. These two styles alone inspired many community mappers to create their own versions in many different engines.
First you drop the classic "Ello Guys" intro, then you get a different voice, and now you even call yourself "Der0n WeeX" or somesuch? It's like I don't even know you anymore!
By the way, if you record on protocol 15 (where possible) or 10002, you can fix the intermission camera on demo playback with BJP's convdem tool.
hipdm1 epic fail :( I added an annotation to the video correcting that.
what's up with the intro man? :P
you can call yourself whatever you like, but you need the "ello guyz" intro!
Needs 'ello Guys
otherwise you don't get my youtube moneys
No ello guyz, no watch.
fun watching you play Dark Souls... :)
Penis Devastated :(
Devasted Skill Levels
I remember long ago playing that map on Hard Skill and thinking it was brutal and unfair. The dual shambler spawn with no cover is just an easy example of where if you don't use the corner quickly and learn shambler dancing it can go wrong quickly.
What I did like about that level was the end battle and how the monsters came in from wind tunnels on the side, umm now that looks familiar! :P
Also WTF mapping project are you working on!?! :P
Also WTF mapping project are you working on!?! :P
Funny you should ask that, of all people.
Its A HL2 Map
cue groans and sarcastic remarks ;)
Something that stood out to me as good layout that you didn't mention: the first two-button progression block also has a symmetrical set of doors associated with it, so no matter which button you hit last, you're right next to one of the doors when they both open.
You also didn't explain "Westwoo00o0oo0000oo0od!" (because viewers really want to know about obscure #terrafusion jokes).
I had no idea what that westwood thing was all about. Scampie explained it in the comments :)
I think Westwoo00o0oo0000oo0od is more of a "I listened to Radio 1 in the 90s" joke?
Nice spawn/fiend kill in the final battle there. The final arena might be relatively easy but it still looks like fun pacing.
Hey, what was the map in the "B roll" Quake footage that you were playing during your recent status update? It looked familiar but I'm blanking on it.
DAZ, What Graphics Card Were You Runnning?
Just saw on your channel that you lost yours :(
Well no wonder it looked familiar. :-)
I had an nvidia 460 which served me heroically for 4 years before it popped :)
I'm playing around with different driver versions for this current backup card I'm using. Trying to find a driver that doesn't lock my pc up when playing Quake... If successful then I can at least keep doing Quake stuff for teh time being!
stop trying to be a movie star
just go to mappping instead!
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ GO MAP OR RIOT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
Scampie, Chill Out. Have Some Weed Or Something.
I'll Pop For An NVidia 660 Card For You...
If we can figure out the details. I'm across the pond from you ;)
Let me know.
I'll Chip In
if that means more 'ello guys videos!
I Prefer To Be Addressed
I'm honestly pretty bowled over by the amount of offers of donations and other help that people have offered both from the quake scene and elsewhere. I had absolutely no idea! I'm really not sure how to deal with it honestly!
As of right now I am waiting to hear back from Mateusz (the guy who runs level-design.org) as he may be able to spring an unused gpu from his work for me which would be fantastic.
Thank you everyone for the generosity! Fingers crossed I can ello guys once again soon :)
The Only Reason Anyone Maps
is so they can see a flyover of it on youtube with you saying ello guys over it.
You're Welcome DaZ
But if that doesn't work out(card from Mateusz), let me know. I'll get you a card asap ;)
you're the new Shambler; you've achieved the rank of most-important-critic, whose review work encourages q1sp mapping
(no offense to Spirit who I would not consider a reviewer but rather an archivist, and who has no parallel new or old)
My commiserations ;(
Thanks to negke who provided a tool to underclock my gpu so it wouldn't crash while playing Quake :)
Get the "Ello guys" back >:( >:(
GO HARD OR GO HOMO?!?
I like how....parental you sound when you're telling people to play the map first ;)
Love the fly-through shot down through the scrags in the pent room.
Very good review Daz, lots of good points especially about the combination of interesting mechanics but the need for more harmonious visual language.
One small thing, exploring the lower slime area is needed to get the biosuit for the upwards slime pipe, which you seem pretty keen on :)
BTW if you go the quick route back from the Quad, you can actually get down and kill the zombies with it by the time it runs out.
One Thousand Faced Derp
Temple of the Thousand Faced Moon by Fingers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iaQ8nBg0W0
I Really Really Like How You
avoid having to pronounce Iikka's name, that's very very clever ;-)
the current lack of graphic power..
Cool video again!
...the shambler dances.
Yessss the secret mission to cripple Daz's video card is bearing delicious fruit.
Unfortunately Mateusz had no luck springing a gpu from his place so argh :(
If you still want to help out with the great gpu crisis of 2014 then email me at firstname.lastname@example.org and let's see what we can cobble together :)
Yes I very intentionally avoided saying Finger's real name :D I have absolutely no idea where to even start with that!
Right now I'm working on Tronyn's Masque of Red Death which I somehow completely missed when he released it :P That video will probably be done by the end of this week at the latest. I have some footage of the Jackhammer editor as well, I just need to record some commentary for it without screwing it horribly :P
I haven't put a whole lot of time into the editor but if anyone here has and has noticed any cool/not cool quirks or features that bare mentioning in a video then please let me know! Right now I feels like an almost carbon copy of Valve Hammer with some nice added features such as the valid brush shapes check etc.
I just received a very generous donation from Sleepwalkr over paypal and thinking about it, paypal is probably the easiest way to handle this if you wanted to help out!
You can send a donation to the email address email@example.com using paypal and it will be very gratefully received!
Looking at current prices on amazon/ebuyer uk I can grab a nvidia 560/660 for around �100-�130 which would be perfectly adequate for all my ello guyz for the next few years at least :)
With Sleepwalkr's donation I need just under �100 to reach this goal. Of course if the amount isn't reached I will refund everyone's money but please keep in mind that paypal takes a percentage of any transactions (I think it's around 2%) so any money refunded will probably be slightly less than what you initially sent. I've never used paypals refund system so maybe it doesn't work that way but it wouldn't surprise me :P
Thank you very much in advance if you do donate! <3
Some Monies Sent...
I hope it helps :)
sleepwalkr, you are awesome.
I could send you my old 8800gt but that's probably too old?
you will have to sacrifice your new one for some blender frame rendering for me!
Wish I Could
But I'm skint as hell. Hope you get the funds though as I watch all your quake stuff
Just �5 left to go :O
One person donated with the condition that I bring back the proper "Ello Guys" intro and that will be honoured :D
<Daz> I seriously cannot believe this. You are either the master troll of the universe or I don't know what!
<Scampie> I mean, I know I am the master, but why?
<Scampie> I just wanted to snipe the last 5 bux
<Daz> with your donation (thx btw!) once it got converted to � left me 22 pence away from what I need :D
<Daz> I seriously just sat there agap at the screen for a while then just laughed :D
<Scampie> stupid money paypal took
<Scampie> I told it I was giving it 5 Euros
<Scampie> I guess I didn't even think about the fees it would take
<Daz> well 5 euro is less than �5
<Daz> about 22pence less LOL
Well done, Mr. Scampie.
Time Is A Flat Circle
<onetruepurple> fucking paypal, i wanted to send spirit 2eur, not 1,99
<onetruepurple> exchange rates up the ass
Thanks everyone :) A new 660 is now on its way.
Looking forward to some ello guiz
The Masque Of Red Death
Yay... But I Heard An H There!
Very very nice video. Complete with a mandatory dazderp (missing the rl). Really really good commentary. Lots of lots of very very visible examples of sloppy texture alignment, though,
What engine is that, RMQ? The foot steps and model shadows felt kind of strange.
The AI can't cross gaps in the floor very well even if they are clipped. Only kind of workaround is to use invisible solids like skip walls, for example.
Nicely done! Not much more to say, glad you�re back on track!
Negke, strange you mentioned this behaviour, and that skip wall workaround.
I encountered this problem for a while now, as clipping floor details or even small gaps doesn�t do the job. Even skipbrushes get ignored by some monsters. Argh!
Oh My Immersion!
Is my new favorite meme. I'm going to mutter it as I play games now. Every time a script breaks, or I spot some z-fighting, I shall pass my hand across my brow, "Oh, my immersion!"
Which means I'll need a new brow if I attempt another playthrough of New Vegas.
Nice video Daz =)
Farting loudly in a restaurant and apologetically saying to nearby diners "Sorry for breaking your immersion"
Punching a band member and grabbing the mike "Sorry about your immersion folks"
Preparing dog turd sandwiches advertised as beef with special napkins which have a particular slogan on them.
Perfectly round sugar coated cockroaches called "immersion breakers"
Good video, I have fond memories of that map, which didn't seem to cause as much of a splash as it should have.
I have fond memories of that map, which didn't seem to cause as much of a splash as it should have.
Yeah, that is odd come to think of it. It's just a really cool concept and is executed really well. Maybe cause at the time it required a custom engine before that it was cool to do that?
I think it's because it required hipnotic, rather than a custom progs.dat.
I know it turned me off the first time I came across Masque, since I didn't have hipnotic installed at the time.
That's a really, really excellent comment. :-)
I remember trying to play it and getting like 2 fps...
Why DOES it require hipnotic? I don't remember seeing any of it's features used...
That Clock Looked Familiar
I watched the video (and I watch every one Daz makes, TYVM Daz) and I only spotted one thing that reminded me of hipnotic. That clock looked very familiar. HIP2M2, The Black Cathedral, has the same clock, if I remember correctly.
You can see some glimpses of the clock in Daz's video from about 1:00 to 3:00. He's kinda busy with all the monsters running about, so you don't seem to get a good look at it at any point.
There could be other things, but that was the one thing I spotted.
Daz you are such a WHORE. I'd have donated a bit if you were putting it towards something you'd need to do the custom derping i.e. a GTX 260....
But You Can't Buy Those Any More
now go play xcom kthx!
Kleins Bottle By MFX
the last area with the wooden stairs and poky wooden bits holding the entire thing together is awesome. really love that look.
... a cool DaZ's map review... who needs to play Quake map anymore now ? Just let DaZ make it for you :P
No, seriously, DaZ's comments are always interesting and full of sense: keep it up man !
yeah, the last few maps i've 'played' have been daz's videos. it's sad. but thanks daz!
The Final Threat By Than - Apsp1
Did a video for it as it's the lets play map of the week. Such a cool map!
The Mega Enforcer is from Zerst�rer, not Operation Urth Majik.
It's From Both
But Zer was first.
Pretty sure that everyone I listen to on YouTube has a British accent...
Random question which hasn't been researched at all: Have you ever considered analyzing the id1, hip, and rogue maps?
Formal Request For Review Of Scampie's Deathmatch 2
More custom gaming!
More custom streaming!
More custom Steam group events!
Daz does the best reviews. It's like he's a journalist, not just talking.
Ceremonial Circles By CZG
Cool map that I hadn't played for years and years!
The layout and shortcuts are nice. I think the map would have benefitted from giving the SNG earlier. It seems like quite a bit of grinding with low-tier weapons for the longest time, although the video makes it look more bearable. That brash presentation of unaligned wizmet near the end... totally czg!
Great Video, Great Map
There's a lot I forgot about this one; the Shambler + minion usage! the shortcuts all having an item or monster on top to lead the player there, the cool interconnectivity.
I did feel a couple of areas could have been expanded upon, namely the exit and SK pickup. A bit more floor space and filler areas would have helped there.
When watching I thought 'hah, but you just derped past the GK access!' But then I remember that I did exactly the same. A fiend or ogre through that archway would have fixed everything, making certain the player went through one the door was opened.
The rest of the placement is fantastic though. That Vore on the plinth is genius.
I just played that one yesterday. Spooky!
It is indeed a great map. Some of the same structural things that I liked about czg07 but a little cozier, and with a theme that feels more Quakeish to me.
Also the secret placement is more up my alley. I found 6/7 (I think), just occasionally nosing around and getting a little gold star for my troubles. I can see how folks would prefer more impenetrable secrets that really reward scouring the map, but I don't tend to play that way.
Secrets In Czg07
I think, are of a very similar style - there arent' any really tough ones - most are just generally rewarding a teensy bit of extra exploration.
BTW is there any actual bonus for getting them all and collecting the runes?
I really like that YA shortcut lift. You see it first inaccessibly from below, so that when you come back to it from above, it's an obvious landmark. Then it drops as you go for it, making the plat sound, so you know it's now a shortcut lift. No special buttons or "Shortcut unlocked" prints necessary, because the item does the job of luring you into learning. A perfect little design case.
Yeah the secrets comment wasn't in comparison to czg07. Bad phrasing on my part.
But watching the video again I realise the same mechanic was being experimented with throughout.
It's just that YA is the clearest (best?) example.
Very cool stuff.
Daz, why not just do videos of CZGs maps from now on?
CZG - you'll need to step up production!
Sock's as well...
ijed, I noticed it on another run-through in a few other places, too, you're right.
There's also a clear moment in czg03 when you feel yourself graduate from living mainly on the lower level to living mainly on the upper level, and that moment is grabbing the gold key. You've been up some stairs briefly before, but never stayed up there long before the layout demoted you again. After the gold key door, you pass through every major atrium you've already been to, exclusively via the upper decks you've seen but never visited, all the way around to the silver key and the first fight atop the bloody crown.
Returning to the first halls leading up to the silver door feels a bit like returning as a conquering hero, because you've since been elevated to mastery of the space ...
Every time you retrace your steps a second time, you do it in the same direction you did the first time. Your forward movement is never arrested, and you never turn around.
- From the opening area beneath the combat crown, up the embankment and down the hall to the main room: first time at the start of the map, second time traveling from the silver key crown ambush to the silver door.
- Along the rocky shore to the bloody pentagram door (or the 'not quite gold key door'): the closed door diverts you up the stairs behind you, which meanders through the mid-height reaches of that side of the map, leading to a button. That button opens the pentagram door, and if you run right over it and off the ledge, you land back on the rocky shore headed straight for the door again.
- From inside the gold key tower toward the gold key door: first time, you pass the gold key cage in the tower, then the gold key door after it diverts you onto a lower path. Second time, you've come around to grab the gold key from within the bars, which rise, and the gold door is literally in sight right down the same corridor.
These moments feel like you're returning to a shorter "main" path from a brief diversion, but because your movement is always forward into new areas it never feels like a diversion at the time.
That's a consequence, of course, of giving the player precisely zero choices, but if you want a map to be linear and not feel that way, czg03 is an object lesson in how to do that.
fuuuck this map is so good
Oh My God
those three loops the player makes are the ceremonial circles</i/>
Now I can't wait to see your reaction when you realise that Honey was named after CZG's memories of a bear ceremonially circling his depths in a sleepless night until he was numb.
All Of This Is Of Course Completely Intentional.
Stop Spoiling It
At First I Thought
That the circles referred to the bloody crown, but realized that made no sense when first playing. Then I came to the same conclusion, that the name refers to the loops made by the critical path.
This got me looking at czg07 more and drawing out the loops involved in those maps.
It's all circles! This got me mapping by drawing blobby sketches at the start.
All Of This Is Of Course Completely Intentional
CZG IS THE GOD OF SPACE
In Other Words, He's A...
All I Could Think Of For The Whole Video
Yeah Not A Lot
just watch some movies and tv and slept.
That Blackadder episode is funny as hell, especially the dialogue between Bob and her father.
Flap Your Lips
Ok, so I want to start a new video series called "Developer Commentary" where I play through a level with the mapper present on skype and we talk about the design of the map (and laugh at my Quake skills).
If you are interested in doing this with me then please get in contact with me either here, or email, or anywhere really :)
Can be a Quake map, Half-life/2 map or any game really. I just need to own the game so I can actually play the level!
If anyone would be willing to go through a "beta" phase where I test all the recording setups and skype config etc that would be awesome.
I Was Wondering When You'd Do This
I'd happily point out everything I now hate about LunSP1 while you fall off ledges.
I Can Help Out
Sometime soon, not sure when.
Probable Architecture Boner
Water Ledge Is Intended Clipping Brush For Slippery..
Great Video Btw!!
Arrrcee Name Your Map Next Time :D
"Honey Theme of Digs" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nXTF-c_pCo
What is it with these jam maps and their names? :D
What is it with maps of digs and their names?
Sorry, my English is bad. That's problem with map name? :)
@daz I think it's more that it's an incredibly functional 'label,' rather than a creative title. So much that it becomes funny, especially when all the other jam maps are pretty 'creatively' named.
Are there unmarked secrets in this map?
good review/playthrough as always but I found myself talking back to you a bit. I can't help feeling like some of the general rules you cite/establish do not apply to Digs maps, which arguably(and often reflexively)transcend them. eg signposting, key use, the 'secret' pathway etc.
This Quake Map Is Doomed
The Dark Honey by Doomer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGeZ7YNGJ5k
Trying to pump out these videos at a quicker pace now that I have some holiday time AWWW YEAAHH BOI.
@digs The name is more of a description of what the map is rather than a creative title. That's all. I just found it amusing :)
@drew Yes but this level felt much more traditional than most of digs other releases which is why I felt that was worth mentioning.
"if you can hold +forward and run through the whole map without paying attention to it that's a sign something is wrong with your map"
doesn't that describe a lot of good quake maps and/or basic speedrunning?
Don't really agree with that.
Not having locked doors is a valid design decision.
Assuming its made consciously of course.
So that's probably what you're referring to :)
It's not cockerello.
In brit you would say cosserello.
Hah, you jumped through that friggin window as well.
Its Pronounced In English /kozerejo/
The r is pronounced like in coherence
If you want to get an idea of what and where it is, the country we now know as Portugal was part of the old kingdom of Galiza or Gallaecia and later part of the county of Galiza, when it became independent from it. The non-oficial portuguese languages are very similar to many modern non-oficial galician languages.
If you want a clearer image, take a look at this.
I love to look at them, they are very detailed and big eye-openeers, and that webpage even have some more from the rest of the regions of the world.
* Ijed, by the way, I don't mind how you all pronounce my nick, in fact, i challenge you to find the most original coherent pronunciation.
* Daz, i still have to look at your demos and comments. Thanks for them. I expect you liked playing it ;).
Don't fault people for not building big maps for a mapping event with a timelimit :(
But how would you rate the map out of 5?
What I was trying to say was that there could have been more to do on the bridge than there was. I don't think the level would have needed to be much larger at all, just divide what was there into small chunks of game play.
Have a silver key where the stairs are currently, then the gold key how it is now.
as good as the honey jam was I dunno, there seemed to be a few entries where people were not sure what they wanted to do or hadn't made much. I felt like I wanted to make a lot but ended up achieving little. Even though mine was fairly sizeable the gameplay area was fairly simple.
I think people will soon be able to make something epic in a short time quite easily. Jam 2 showed what can be achieved.
Thanks Daz. I wasn't going to enter a map. Just exploring the texture set. After posting a screen shot, Sock said "you just need to create something with an exit trigger."
I'm satisfied with the look of it. Game play accept for the fiends was slapped in there. I'll revisit and expand the map this winter.
I'm happy my little map is in there with those great maps.
"I'm Not Quite Sure What X Is About"
This happens in a lot of videos, and it often leaves me disappointed, because it shows how little research was done beforehand. At the very least you could read through the release thread for potentially vital background information. Especially in a 5-minute map/video this really isn't too much to ask for.
I know, yellow bricks in a Honey map. It's fucking insane - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzvmpI3ofXM
(Yellow Brick Grotto by Rickyt23)
Good Rhythm There
at churning out videos.
When i get time and a decent leg to play all the recent maps i still haven't played (half of 2013 and almost all of 2014 ones), i'll take a good look at those jam videos. I loook forward to them.
Teh Secrits In Teh Mapz
Teh Ratz In Teh Wallz by Scampie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce_gHzKtvmE
fuck the final secret. fuck it right in its shitty secret arsehole.
...cool map tho.
The Golden Derp
May I point out, Daz, that you did find that secret in your live stream playthrough of the level?
#221 wins the derp!
Thank You For Making Me Cringe Again
I should've locked the door behind you when you got to the Grenade Launcher... because going back that way is completely the wrong way, and I spawn the zombies when you pick it up because I was dumb and didn't expect anyone to go back that way. The zombie key aspect works better when there is no other way to go.
Also, I don't know how you could miss the main door being jammed. And there is no sound of it opening when you push the button... I literally just killtarget the func_wall that has the jam door texture that is in front of the actual func_door.
Scampie, it gave me something to talk about :)))
I swear I heard something move when hitting the jam button, oh well I must be going mad.
Thanks For The Warp Play Daz
Shame I missed the start, but it gave me a warm feeling to see you dive into a bottomless pit full of Night Gaunts :]
Yeah That Was Something!
You should definitly upload this to Youtube.
All of it.
Thanks For The Derping Daz.
Good stuff, sorry I missed the earlier bits, but falling in the Gaunt pit made up for it a little.
Also when you respawned in DayZ, I was off for a shower and my bird was watching you in fits of giggles. Apparently you spawned surrounded by zombies, but instead of attacking them you spent a good while choosing the correct cowboy hat / checked shirt combo before panicking wildly??
So How Does It Work?
I can't find the previous broadcast for warp - are they auto-deleted after a while?
Yes, I'm a internept.
Derping Starts Around The 25 Minute Mark
The previous episode with the first half of it.
shambler has a bird
it all makes sense
that was great=)
Seems tiwtch has misplaced the start of the WarpSpasm stream :| No idea how that happened.
I don't know if I'll be moving a vod to youtube, especially if the beginning is missing!
That sucks :(
You mean the maps before warpd?
Dunno What's Going On
I don't know for sure what's going on with the messages in some of the recent archived videos, but they suggest the copyright fairy has visited, muting them and cutting off most of the actual video. Some of them are now less than 30 minutes long. I saw the messages in a couple of the Colonial Marines vods.
If this was an automated process and it also mistakenly ate the Warpspasm session, maybe (just maybe) someone at Twitch support could restore it. I know, it sounds wildly optimistic. But maybe worth asking at least.
I Grant My Permission...
only mutes vods for 30 minutes if it detects a copywritten track, it doesn't cut them at all.
So something else has broken there causing many 28 minute vods that should be 2+ hours. So WarpSpasm is lost to the ether it seems :|
I Predict A Riot..
On skill 3.
And Find At Least 1 Secret!
The Secrets In Warpspasm
confused the fuck out of me! The trend with most modern maps is to have secrets that you can find by studying and then interacting with the environment in some way (ie hidden buttons, doors etc) but warp had very few of these.
Nothing in the levels stood out to me and I just started randomly jumping into windows and things just to see if there are secrets there. It was really weird!
Of Course You Are Right
That makes finding them more rewarding, thats the only good thing about it.
Some are nearly impossible to find:)
I tend to make secrets easier accessible, which lowers the replay value on the other hand..
Like you find 9 /10 . Like that..
Warp Had A Good Mix
Of intuitive secrets, obvious non-secrets, and bullshit obscure secrets.
I just got twitch turbo so my vods are now kept for 60 days afterwards
I Learnt A Thing
I read up a bit on what Twitch does with the streams, and I think it stored the vods in sections of about 30 minutes. For some reason they threw away all but one of these sections for some of Daz's recent vods. Which explains why there was so little video left. Jerks.
It didn't have anything to do with the copyright related muting. I shouldn't guess how things work without looking it up.
Anyhow, looking forward to zombie-related streaming that is starting very soon. What a good way to spend some time on Sunday evening :)
Honey Theme Of Skacky
AKA I don't mind that your hands are cold.
Inb4 no grenade jump needed. Inb4 noob you didn't find all secrets.
I'll happily watch whatever videos you put together -- well, within some limits :-) -- but I'm also curious about whether you've thought more about the "Quake map retrospective" thing. Because that would be groovy.
(Don't burn yourself out on jam maps!)
Thought about, yes. A lot! Just haven't had the time to put something together :( These fucking arseholes keep releasing maps!
Put The Time In Perspective
Playing and recording the entire and complete retrospective of 18 years of Quake mapping will still take less time than a single playthrough of Ijed's Rubicon Rumble map.
This guy is too easily distracted!!!! Doesn't help at all that some shady people keep recommending or gifting him games to play and stream, thereby effectively trolling the custom gaming spirit!!! ;)
Daz recently mentioned he was going to do a Tronyn week on his stream, starting with the early releases and working his way forward. It didn't happen, but I thought it was a nice idea which could possibly lead to more CG material in the process. Picking scenes from the playthroughs and adding comments on the design aspects, maybe even address them right in the existing commentary and just put the parts into context. Like a more improvised version of a CG video, but with a bigger scope.
This could lead to other 'themed weeks' or sessions, e.g with a focus on certain visual styles (texture sets or architecture) or gameplay elements (puzzles, traps, hordes) etc. Could be cool.
See Daz, now that you're a YouTube superstar you have to deal with your public. Chin up!
We need more quake streams. Tho thief stream was awesome =)
Vendricks Viaduct by Sock.
Also herp derp I somehow totally skipped over FifthElement's map somehow so I'll get that done over the next few days. Oops!
Which map? I dont think you have done either my jam1 or jam2 map :P
The Jam 1 Map
I thought Sock's map was the last one I had to do :P
Here We Go
Callous Zeitgeist by FifthElephant
Better late than never! :P
Rubicon Rumble Pack Stream
Derping In The Snow
Lava In My Pants
"Persia Inversion" by Lunaran from Map Jam 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwA8GapRlx4
Lava In My Pants
Wasn't This Called
thanks daz! :)
but whatever engine you use must have stuffed up the info_intermission, because I placed it facing a very nice vista and not right up against an ugly torch :(
The intermission camera is almost always wrong in demo playback, even if it looked perfectly fine during the recording. BJP's convdem tool has an option to (attempt to) fix it, but it only works on protocol 15 and 10000-2 demos.
Heh, yeah it had a nice vista when I recorded it. As Negke says, it got b0rked on playback :(
WALLTORCH H Y P E
Not sure why, but every custom map (not id1 maps though) that I play in Quakespasm, I've gotten a weird intermission camera. I just assumed some people were being overly artistic... "Look at this torch, it is beautiful!" I noticed it during my playthrough of retrojam2 and The Hell That Is Coming last night.
I don't recall any recent changes in QS that should have broken that. Do you get the same cameras in Fitz 0.85 or Mark V?
THTC doesn't have a proper camera. So ignore that. :)
I assume most people use only one info_intermission in their maps, not knowing they should place 4 of them.
QS resets to the playerstart as intermission then which is unfortunate.
I only assume this is the reason.
4? For what, co-op? Is that a realistic concern these days? Was it ever?
I'm pretty sure just one intermission camera is enough, and 4 is only the limit.
Doesn't it choose one of up to four at random? And if none, then the players start position?
that is the behaviour I have observed
That's Essentially It
Also fun fact: you can killtarget intermission cameras. Get some sweet conditional action up in that.
In the Shadows allowed you to switch between the cameras on the intermission screen by firing, I thought it was a pretty nifty addition.
Maybe it could automatically cycle through them.
A Floating Disembodied Camera Moving Around Polygons
aka The Halls of the Blood God by Scampie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wChHZj3hq5k
Youtube is being slow to encode the higher resolution 60fps version of the video so give it some time if its not available yet!
Shared This On My Tumblr Blog.
I might play trough it without cheating sometime.
WAY TO MISS ALL THE REALLY EASY SECRETS
Also, the ammo and health don't respawn on timers, but instead they respawn along with waves of enemies. Means the health and ammo is controlled so that you have enough for all the respawns, but never lets you get too much to break the balance.
Some White And Blue With Yellow Stains
aka IKWHITE THEME OF SKACKY aka MAP NAME TOO LONG ERROR aka https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qfwblog7iQs
Is this just me? Check the fly around at ~35-40s in. If I advance frame by frame there are many almost same frames mixed with bigger jumps. This is visible as jitter in 1:1 playback speed.
Are you capturing with something synchronized to the engine? Otherwise this might be due to the difference between the recorder's tick and the engine's.
Would setting the monitor refresh rate to 60hz with vsync on while recording at 60fps fix this issue?
I Noticed It Too
although I don't recall seeing stuttering on past CG videos. Trying vsync sounds like a good idea.
Enjoyed the review though :)
Death By A Thousand Derps
pixels wot move m8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L3XB7f_n1s
Death by a thousand cuts by Sock, shipping with map jam 2!
One Thousand Cuts
if anyone liked my jam2 entry I did an updated version with more content, skill levels and better item balance. I also wrote a long articles about how the map was originally created and what went right and wrong with its design.
Version 2 - http://www.simonoc.com/pages/design/sp/1000cuts.htm
Nice On Sock.
That's my evening sorted - map and words.
Map Jam 4
wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUaerw8HMBw
The Video That's Coming
Fallen From Grace
I'd still kill for a Daz-plays-Aliens-TC stream.
Kill. Like, people.
Not A Quake Map
Starting Map Jam 6 Videos
Very nice, very useful feedback.
You questioned a teleport that teleports you right up (to the exit). I agree, it was poor design. A teleport should be a last resource to solve connection problems. Some kind of stairway or unlocking an elevator would be better.
A teleporter is fine. It's just that in this case it all feels a little disjointed or unintuitive perhaps. It shows that you made the atrium first and then tried to come up with stuff around it - which is also fine, but it can lead to an uninspiring layout.
About the spike rock setup: while it's a nice mechanic, it doesn't really work out in the end due to a flaw in the presentation. It goes without saying that the rocks should have been made to stand out more visually, not necessary by putting a shootable texture on them, but something to make them look special and not like an environmental detail. Now, the setup itself is clever in principle, whether intentionally or not. First room teaches the player that the rocks can be interacted with and how they serve as both triggers for progression as well as platforms to jump on. The second room shows they can also be used to crush enemies, and the third room uses a combination of both, where the player can use them at his own discretion. However, the setup breaks at the second step. Upon entering the room, the player immediately sees the vore (& vice versa) and since there's no cover and little space, he instinctivly backs up again before he has a chance to spot the rock above the vore. Even if he does make the connection afterwards, after having sniped the vore from the previous room, it likely won't work as effectively in the third room, because there was no directly visuble reinforcement of the lesson.
Be puzzled, at first, about what to do to progress is part of the experience. The first room was set for the player to take its time and figure out the puzzle. Once you know those pointy things are there to drop there's no need to make them blink to get the player's attention. It raises a debate about how much player's frustration should be avoided (there must be some, imho). But I agree about the vore and the rest of your post.
having the player figure things out on his own, at least to a certain degree. That's one thing (of many) I didn't like about HL2 or the episodes; they felt overdesigned (if that's even an expression) in that whenever any new gameplay element was introduced, it was way too obvious that the designers were trying to "teach" the player how to use it - which is even more apparent when listening to the commentary. Almost as if they were afraid the player wouldn't do things exactly the way he was supposed to, or that every player has the attention span and cognitive abilites of a kindergartener, thus having to be handheld.
Okay I'm just rambling now. But my point is, I don't think it's a bad idea to just have some more subtle clues and then let the player figure out the rest on his own. Although I do recall having some trouble in the third room of your map, adib, as I'd run out of ammo after killing the vore and therefore couldn't shoot the spike down.
Breezeep In The Flames Of Stars And Stuff
Kell's book secrets in Contract were all bonus secrets, the hidden runes that opened up the secret level. No actual gameplay secrets were hidden with those fiddly books.
Bookshelf Secrets Are Like Under Lift Secrets.
Like 'em or not, they are obligatory. And all the better with spawn hidden inside them.
I never did figure out the water room secret, well fucking annoying!
did "obligatory" come to mean "terrible" overnight?
Thanks For The Video Daz!
See my comment under the video.
<Daz_> was out at a bar, and one of my friends friends who I've never met before just said omg are you the guy who does those quake videos on youtube?
Daz, did she ask you to sign her boobs?
Or his boobs, I ain't judging.
daz, this INFRA game you were playing looks like Myst for trainspotters
I watched an hour of the 'gameplay' before I got bored. I'm sure the level design is exceptional but it felt like a waste of time.
You can feel that the team that built it were 99% env artists and 1% animatiors, programmers and level designers.
It's a love letter to urban explorers and infrastructure coolness.
Some of the puzzles are absolutely maddening, and confusing as hell in places. Definitely needed more playtesting in this regard.
But damn, it is cool exploring all these old places :o
99% env artists
It's a love letter to urban explorers
Ok, you got my attention. Gonna look for it.
Transmissions : Element 120
My Half-Life 2 mod of the year for 2015. Rocket Jump gun :o