|Posted by sock [22.214.171.124] on 2013/12/19 20:40:03|
|Download Link Don't Readme No QUAKE.RC and Screenshot.
Deep within the Grendal Gorge is the City of Zendar, a hodge-podge of stone consumed by madness. The map has a skill selection area at the beginning, a chance to dance on the roof tops and some secrets to keep you wandering around in circles.
The map is about trying to capture the vertical essence of Quake, the desire to climb and explore the world while dealing with the minions of Chthon! It features medieval style pickups, some new items and blood soaked ogre backpack! The textures are mostly from ID and the gameplay is vanilla Quake!
If you want to play the map with your own engine settings check the readme file for further details.
The map was tested with Fitz/QS engines and remember ...
RECORD A DEMO, I want to see how you play the map!
Congrats On The Release, It's An Awesome Map
To say it in the words of Vondur: sock si teh rock of my life!
One Of The Very Best For Quake IMO
First run on Nightmare: 30ish minutes, 215/224 kills and 4/10 secrets. I died 3 times. Horribly.
Sock Si Teh Rock
of my life
First Run On Hard Mode...
I'll leave it a surprise if I make it all the way through :)
I really enjoyed it, though it seems to perform less than stellar on my Surface Pro. I also noticed some disappearing brushes when I booted it up in DirectQ, not sure why so I dropped out and recorded in FQ instead.
I added some fun commentary, I figured out if I click singleplayer first and go to the start map then it will pause gameplay while I type :)
The Greatest Map I Have Ever Played.
By far the best Quake map ever made bar none.
The combat setups, the nonlinear layout, the setting, the atmosphere, the secrets, the lighting, the detailing... are all flawless.
Hats off to you sock.
normal skill, 100% kills, 4/10 secrets ~30mins
Y'all are setting the bar kind of high for when I get home and try this out.
You will believe the hype. It's going to be considered the greatest map by probably everyone. I'm on the fence a little, it's an epic map but I think the sheer detail in some areas (especially the terrain bits) makes the movement feel a bit funky. I got caught on some vertices a few times due to their angles.
Skill 0, 82/96, 2/10 secrets, 28:13.
Reminded me of shadow over innsmouth and (a bit) the final-but-one level of dissolution of eternity. Sometimes I wasn't sure if I was following the normal progression or finding secrets but since I enjoy both I don't really mind :-) Need to go back and explore some more...
Another Top Quality Map !
Great map, Sock.
Why the under water tunnel, near the end portal ? It appears to be useless, since it's ending with a closed trap in the middle of the end portal room.
No demo from me, since I'm a retard player, playing with God mode and all weapons...
Have you seen that room before?
Hmmm, I don't think so, or I don't remember. What is it ?
84/96 3/10. Very nice, Thanks, Sock
Very beautiful map! Thank you!
Here is my demo recorded with quakespasm:
I found one immortal zombie there .... is it a bug?
This Looks Fantastic, Christmas Present For Me (ie Will Play It Then)
@negke, thanks it was a long journey with many bumps in the road but it got there in one piece!
@skacky, your demo's are epic stuff, especially considering they are on nightmare skill! amazing stuff.
@Vondur, thanks :)
@Fifth, yeah I should have mentioned it ... HARD SKILL IS FREAKY HARD! but your demo was epic, you nearly died so many times but you came back and beat the horde of zendar!
@Scampie, thanks man :D Now go and complete it on hard skill! :D
@JL, I would recommend normal skill first, hard skill does not take any prisoners!
@mhw, thanks I will check out the demo.
@Barnak, that water tunnel is the nightmare skill selection, you only need at the beginning which is why is blocked off at the end!
@Digs, I am surprised I thought you would have demo'd this map on hard skillz! :D
@AAS, thanks I will check out the demo.
Holy Fucking Shit
This is one of those "makes you want to delete all your wip maps and start over" type of maps.
Maybe the most convincing and immersive environment ever made in Quake? Certainly one of them.
Great Map By Mr.sock
congrats on the release
skill3 demo, second run, as a first run was interrupted by some reason
i have no words just wow
(for the best experience) I'll wait until the new year (back at my pc then) to play\review this. But first of all, anything anyone says reminds one of SHADOW... that's very exciting. Plus I've been more and more impressed by your designs. If you took the ultimate "q1sp design" cake in 2013, that would be great - there have been some contenders since 2005 (Kinn's marcher), but god I want to stand where that screenshot was taken.
but god I want to stand where that screenshot was taken
Go to Brugge!
Definitely a merry christmas. Really looking forward to playing this one, props on the release!
Go to Brugge!
The dogs are friendly, there are no knights to shoot.
At the worst, you may be asked directions by another tourist. Or tread in horse shit.
Just finished a ER in 2:14 but it wont playback as it is a multipledemo demo (i tought FQ mark V could handle those nowadays?) + im to lazy to decompile it.
Let me first state its a nice map.
But im not as enthousiastic as some others in this thread. Probably due to how i experienced it first try:
Pretty fast i realised it was a big structure with probably lots of rooms interconectivity and secret areas/passages. Multiple blue key doors! and a goldkeysoemwhere up, first dissapointment: lift to get it is next to it. Go to Gk-doortake rune doen even have to killthat room teleport, hordes of zendar...after I kill this i wil probablyopen up way to all those room i havent seen yet ( 0nly killed like 30 monsters). I can go explore the lower city! WOw map is evenbigger then i thought?!
Oh wtf exit? Big antimclimax to me
I geuss its a first map of an episode?
@Kinn, thanks! an awesome compliment coming from you! :D
@spy, looking forward to watching another nightmare run :D
@Tronyn, the bridge is one of my favourite parts!
@ijed, that location is not vertical enough!
@Orbs, The map is about exploring, certainly not speed. This is a standalone map, this is no more. This is my final vanilla Q1 map.
I think that is the hardest part about releasing stuff, you can never please everyone!?! :P oh well, I certainly enjoyed creating this map, there is some lovely flow between areas.
I'm looking at my map now, and how flat it is..
Upload your demo somewhere, if you want I can try to fix it.
You said :
>This is my final vanilla Q1 map.
WTF !? NO F'CKING WAY ! Or I'll throw all my army of fiends and shamblers on your back ! ;-)
Maybe you could do some twisted metal maps (they are my favorite in Quake1). They feel so much "out of this world", I think it's the best style in Quake1 (and I hate the military base style maps).
Kk Here It Is
Sock my opinion wasnt based on a speedrun,it was the first time playthrough with no intention to "outsmart" the map design. (yet :P)
I'll have a go at a harder skill in a bit maybe the end feels more like the end then
( had to get up at 6:00 am this morning and fell asleep just after my post maybe the anticlimax was just in me)
My regular parsing fails on this demo as well so I guess I have some debugging to do during christmas. Fixing multi-demo playback by hand is trivial though.
Fantastic In Every Way
What more is there to say? This is easily one of the best Quake maps ever. The detail in each area is astounding, every corner was interesting to look at. You really have to stop and appreciate all the work that went in to each room, its marvelous.
It's massive scale, balanced gameplay and non linear exploration really make this map shine. This one is gonna go down in history.
First run demo, hard skill:
Loved It Sock
though I feel like we're running up to technical limitations of quake a little (like how the bounding box interacts with oddly shaped vertices).
I'm glad you enjoyed my demo, I really persevered through the keyboard and framerate issues. The map proper actually works in DQ but the start area has weird disappearing brushes. No idea why. Probably a vis problem.
When you say last vanilla quake map are you going to map for RMQ or something?
The �bermapper Exists..
and its a sock!
Congrats and thank you very much for this amazing map! Loved every second of it! Demo? Not from me as i was admiring the details for like too long:)
Awesome map, the flawless execution is like art.
Thank you again for this lovely gift.
Okay, I've been playing for about 40 minutes. I've got 88/160 kills, a silver key and a gold key. Problem is, I've found 3 doors marked with the silver key emblem and I'm not sure which one I should open. I can't find any more monsters to kill, so I suppose I'll just have to take a guess.
Just Take A Silver Key With You...
I did: http://www.quaketastic.com/files/demos/zendar_generic.rar
Awesomeness, Sock, from start to finish!
Played on Hard and missed a few monsters and some secrets along the way, but it was worth it :)
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ME!!!
Seems like sock is busy, so I'll be a cheeky cunt and answer the question above. I think now he wants to do more with ITS.
And I think we all want to see more of that.
I had a neat idea for a new player model that would look cool in ITS, but I know absolutely nothing about making models otherwise I'd have a crack at it.
7/10 (I think i had 8/10 earlier on a playthrough with godmode on)
certainly more fun then earlier on, but i still dislike the half of the map is "optional/useless" even when using intended routes. will try some more later this weekend hopefully i can find the remaning secrets and kills
Sock is a mapping machine in a good way
a bunch of HQ maps in the short amount of time 'tis insane
What Everyone Else Said.
Have a demo. Confused as to how to upload to quaketastic.
all enemies but 1
Not sure how long
Skill 2. No deaths. As close to perfect balance as I've experienced in Q1SP, perhaps.
@spy, really nice demo, especially as it is nightmare skill
@Orl, for some reason you demo is broken, all the entities are missing and there are giant blocks in the sky.
@Rick, there are 4 Silver keys and 4 doors. Three of them can be accessed from both sides. The map does keys different, which is going to upset the traditionalist. Gold is your primary objective, Silver is secondary and in most cases, optional.
I think what is confusing the most for Quake players is, you can only hold one Gold/Silver key at a time, so if you see locked door, use the key. Otherwise you will find extra keys and will not be able to pick them up! Also there is no triggers setup on any silver key.
@Fifth, the start canyon has certainly got plenty of floor detail but there is hardly any combat there. Most of the steps/floor are clipped, so I am not sure what you mean. Your visual problems sounds like your video card/engine, can you produce a screenshot?
As ijed has said, I plan to work on my ITS mod, this is my last vanilla Quake map.
@Orbs, its certainly not a traditional map with a linear route, you have plenty of options and ways to get around things. Like for example you can get to the roof early, grab the SNG without having to do much in the Garden. There are duplicates of all powerful weapons, one is ambush trapped, the other is easy to grab. The map is about non-linear gameplay, multiple routes and exploring.
Yeah I could tell that you clipped the terrain, but it's a hacky way of getting the bounding box to move smoothly over weird shaped brushes.
As for a screenshot... this is in directq
It only seems to have this issue in the starting area, the rest of the map is fine (plus the map runs much smoother for me in DQ than in Fitz, no idea why).
but it's a hacky way of getting the bounding box to move smoothly over weird shaped brushes
Wow, this is the industry standard way of fixing mesh issues in all games, clip brushes are not hacky. They are designed for a reason, to smooth out the players movement. I think your current low detail project is affecting your better judgement.
Creating detail in maps is fun, it adds to the overall ambiance of a map. Sure it is time consuming to make but Quake is a hobby and there are no deadlines, everyone has as much time as they want to make maps.
Those screenshot errors are strange, they are certainly not a vis issue because there should a func_door at their location blocking those holes. When the player comes back a second time, they are removed and func_episodegate brush takes their place. It may be something to do with the engine you are using. They certainly appear with Fitz/MarkV/QS.
You Can Never Have Too Many Clipping Brushes
I know some people hate how I "force" engine settings on them, so here is a pak1.pak file "the way that Id did it" engine settings ...
No quake.rc pak1.pak
"Wow, this is the industry standard way of fixing mesh issues in all games..."
Yeah I know why we have invisible clipping brushes, I used them a lot in Q-Deck, but games like Unreal did not have the same issues with floor terrain. Newer games like Ut2003 only needed a heightmap for terrain, no other clipping necessary :P
Abuse of clip brushes is one of my biggest gripes with modern games, want to walk down that alley? Fuck you, clip brush bitch.
As for my project, I wanted something low detail because my job now requires me to work long ass 10 hour shifts and I don't have quite as much time to pour over details like in your maps. If I'm not able to put down enough brushes in a given session I tend to lose interest leading to lots of unfinished maps.
Yeah I thought this might be a DirectQ thing, at least it only affects this one area.
Smoothing out movement and having invisible blockades are two different things though.
Unreal always had more robust physics imo, like movers actually transfer their momentum. I remember in the gearhead map in Rage when I took the large elevator downwards and jumped up... I fell to my death.
I was like SRSLY ID? After all this time... lol.
Fuck you, clip brush bitch.
Got to say that is rude, my maps are far from modern day standards of clipping everywhere. I let the player wander all over my maps, I just make sure that terrain is not so bumpy that you end up falling off edges by mistake.
I Still Haven't Played The Map Btw
Hearing how good it is wants me to wait for the special moment when I can give it my full attention <3
"Got to say that is rude..."
Hahaha, I wasn't referring to you when I said that actually. Oh lordy, your maps are a breath of fresh air compared to anything today!
I suppose no one enjoys watching a demo of invisible monsters :)
I know what happened, and I re-uploaded the demo for correct viewing. You will however, need to use the lastest version of enhanced win/glquake to view it, which should be no issue.
The address is the same as before, but I will post it again for convenience:
Again, sorry about that.
@Orl, can't play it with any Fitz engine, oh well no worries.
@Fifth, it sure sounded like you were shouting at me. :(
I had stated you needed to use enhanced win/glquake (aguiRe's engines) to playback the demo. You can run aguiRe's engines right?
found all monsters now + one more secret
still missing 2 secrets though, any demo with all secrets?
The sense of place is amazing.
Here's some demos where I die a lot and wander about gawping at the architecture.
1/10 secrets and missed a load of kills. Also only went through a single SK door, so plenty left to do!
Challenge felt fine, I was just off my game a bit.
Reminded me of the plague village level from Painkiller. What is that eye symbol on the doors to the houses? It reminds me of something.
Don't have much to say about this as it was pretty much perfect in all aspects.
Except for one thing: The secret high on the left as you enter the main courtyard is a demon door which are normally openable by switches. I spent a long time looking for a switch for that...
(47 minutes - 30 minutes playing, 17 minutes trying to get into that secret or back to that secret once I got lost).
@Orbs, there is no official demo of all the secrets but I believe Shambler got them all, I think! :P
@ijed, wow you are crazy! skill 3 first time, its nuts! :) The eye symbol on the wooden door is nothing, just detail. I like your route, you found stuff in cool ways, but you still missed a ton of stuff! :D
If You Followed My Tumblr Sock..
you'd realise I'm a bit of a fanboy for your maps ;)
Just One Left :)
14:16 is still much to long
if somoene spoils me that last secret il try improve.atleast have to find a solution for those last zombis i kill
good thing it wasnt the secret at the end of that demo, geez you fell down alot :)
whats in a a name it was the secret behind the shambler on the roof
@shambler, very cool demo, you were obsessed with that demon door but it was different, my fault. I also should have not locked the roof towers, the items are not critical.
It is awesome to see all the different routes people are taking and how they are getting to the roof. Very cool demo's so far. :) I will release a pack of the one's I got working next week.
I think it is interesting.that the horde parts are not criticised. They would be the only common bad thing that came to my mind when thinking about it. I did not mind them when playing, I actually liked them! So you can make good horde fights!
Short review: this is incredible!
My first play: http://www.quaketastic.com/files/demos/zendar_mandel.zip
I must have found some accidental shortcut because I think I missed large portions of the map. At least judging by the monster count - I only found 60 (easy). Unfortunately the demo lacks total monster count since I restarted the recording after the map reload.
Here's a little utility which replaces reconnect messages with nothingness, making most multilevel demos possible to play back in most engines. Should support any protocol since it works on the raw level. Source and mingw (win32) build included: http://mandelmassa.net/quake/raw-unmarathon.zip
It was a typical orbs screw up that gave me the multidemo playback issue, when i loaded up my command line yesterday to watch a demo to find the last secret it reoccured and i had a closer look at my commandline and saw it wasnt the latest fitzquake, after changing that could watch back all np. + i did a 12! sec improvement over the above posted demo with the last secret, gosh so slow was hoping for more:)
@spirit, what would the horde of zendar be without a good horde fight!
@Drew, as always you play like a master with perfect jumps and magnificent infighting sequences! :D
@Mandel, it looked like you were toying with the AI, lovely movement, you should really try skill 1 it could be a better challenge. :)
2nd playthrough, skill 3, no deaths. Don't usually play skill 3 so I forgot how much more effective ogres and shamblers are so I did get below 50 health a few times.
Sock if you like church infighting you'll like the massive clusterfuck I get in this :D
@Shambler, yeah awesome skill 3 demo with cool route variety. The more demo's I see the more things I want to change about the map!
I think the rooftop encounter could have been triggered better and there certainly should have been a jump route back up to the ogre's balcony. Also the locked towers should have been unlocked, this is an old design which was setup because of the old silver/gold locked door system.
Path Of Least Resistance.
As posted in #tf:
<@Honkbler> got thru zendar on hard with 84 kills....that is going only to the minimum of areas, but killing all monsters in an area
<@Honkbler> i.e. not leaving any visible / encountered monsters alive
<@Honkbler> i did kill one deathknight on a walkway because he was visible, and 4 zombies visible thru a grate
Get SK in top left of main area, go thru SK door on right, around to lower GK area and up to GK, retrace steps, do GK door bit and endgame, exit.
My Last Demos On This One
unless i get bored and no new releases :)
Improved the Er by grabbing the SNG and a bit less mistakes.
Did the NH with the route i had in mind yesterday,still lot of mistakes but that comes with lenghty demos;)
and i tought i was going crazy. am i getting that old that im actualy forgetting secrets after finding them? Not yet, my friends(demo-proof included) my best geuss is that its a packetoverflow kinda thing, but im not the tech guy here.It happened that often that amade a slight tweak to the route, but herecomes the weakness of my geuss even then it sometimes happened and by then there isnt to much action yet. I tried getting it from when on the roof aswell, same bug so i get it asap to not have to restart cuz of it while 10mins playing already
Am I the only one that found progression a bit confusing? I spent most of the map walking around wondering where I was. Early on I guess a secret opened up a whole new area, at some point I got a gk and forgot to return to the gk lift for ages, mainly because I'd progressed so much further that the gk door was a distant memory by then, and the level was still pushing me further in the wrong direction. Then the hole opening at the end had me a bit lost - totally forgot there was a hole even there. The blocked door opening at the end was the problem, that should have remained blocked. I thought with that opening something must have changed beyond that door so went searching through the level again.
So yeah I did find it a bit TOO non-linear.
Having sk's open doors between two areas you've already been to doesn't help. I guess there were 3 different sk doors all of which actually lead nowhere and don't progress your game, which is not what a sk door is supposed to do.
On a second playthrough it would be fantastic, since I'd know where I went wrong first time through. The design is just awesome sock. Definitely a breath of fresh air as your ability to create architecture and detail is some of the best ever seen in Quake.
Am I The Only One
to find the similarities to the Thief game, especially the roofwalking
Zendar and some of sock's other maps have really pushed the envelope in the swiss-cheese-topology, wandering-and-backtracking zone of the Quake design space. I'm selfishly glad about that though; it happens to match nicely with some of my personal FPS gameplay hot-buttons.
I was thinking a bit about how playing this reminded me of "filling out the map" in Doom, and (not for the first time) I thought that It's too bad that Quake didn't get even a rudimentary automap function. Obviously 3D automap is harder than 2D, but some sort of automappery could make strongly nonlinear Quake maps even more widely accessible & enjoyable.
@Kona, this map is certainly not for the traditionalist because the keys are setup different. I am not really a fan of the "one key one door" idea and thought giving players a choice could be fun.
There are 4 Silver keys and 4 doors, three of them can be accessed from both sides to confuse the matter more. The gold is your primary objective, Silver is secondary and in most cases, optional.
The map is designed to always take you back to the Hub, you cannot be lost for too long because it always leads back to one central location.
The GK side has brown arrows all over the place and the hub had large key symbols. The map exit, well its in the center of the map! I tried for ages to make the flow go towards the gold lift/exit so it would minimize the feeling of being totally lost.
On a second playthrough it would be fantastic, since I'd know where I went wrong first time through.
This is indeed what the map is designed for, yes it may seem weird that the first play through is not the best, but this is a map that grows and gets better the more times you play it. Something to make xmas last a little bit longer! :P
VOTE VOTE VOTE
Please remember everyone to VOTE
for the map over at Quaddicted
/me bans sock for vote-begging!
Links To The Past
@spy, I am a huge fan of the Thief franchise, so it is indeed possible that there is a lot of "Thief" influences in the design. One of my favourite Quake maps is E1M4 and there is also similarities there, with the huge city below the water and the GK and route across the top like the platform in the giant lake of the Grisly Grotto!
I Am A Huge Fan Of The Thief Franchise
And this is a good thing, as myself i'm a huge fan of the Thief series too, and seeing something that has connecting on and off is a great
I'd like to see more maps in the same vain (ie the City maps), its kind of unique for the quake scene
I wish me a Merry Christmas you never stop mapping
Connection, Quake Mapping Scene
I have a huge collection of epic demos and I know some people like to watch them. Each demo collection file is about 40Mb and here is the list of people in each zip file.
Demo file 1
5th, aas, bal, cardO, daz, dbaudio, drew, generic, ijed and mandel
Demo file 2
mhw, orbs, otp, scampie, shambler, skacky, spy and vondur
yes sock please never stop mapping!!! quake has lost some great mappers over the years.
Never Stop Mapping For Quake
I will record as many demos as you require
Great As Always
there's just not much I can add to what everyone else said. I had a lot of fun and marveled at the build quality and the lighting as usual.
Here are two demos (died after a couple of minutes on my first playthrough):
Very non-linear map, but not too confusing.
Init only 7/10 146/160 but after reading about the shambler on the roof, went back and even got 10/10 (with a little cheat)
Best parts are the hedge courtyard, roof, and of course the quality.
Two demos here, one up to the final combat where I died, and a second go at that fight from another attempt plus some secret finding afterwards (use fast-forward!).
Another gorgeous and detailed map, there's not a dull patch around. The way that all the balconies and rooftops can be explored is fantastic, and all the ledges make it great fun to try and reach new areas. The lighting was top notch, the use of subtle blue moonlight to match the skybox sealed the deal.
Played through on normal (without sounds) and combat was generally fair, there was a good progression from initially easy skirmishes to increasingly tricky set pieces, despite the presence of all the more powerful weapons.
After much exploration post-combat I got 7/10 secrets, which is good by my standards. I got the stuff with the silver keys alright, but it was a bit hard to see on a first play-through that you don't gain anything from opening the sliver key door at the perforator if you've already found your way there. I think that's mostly because it's hard to judge whether you're seeing two sides of the same door or a pair of doors on opposite sides of a new room. I gambled it was the latter and regretted it.
@Preach, the SK by the SNG is designed to be opened by players using the upper route through the GK area. Each Silver key door is designed for multiple routes and sometimes for certain routes.
SK 1 is in the hub area next to the NG. This is designed to make sure the player has a good weapon (NG/GL) before getting access to the GK section.
SK 2 is in the secret garden. This is designed to make sure the player knows how to enter/exit the gardens. It highlights the importance of the door so it different from others close by.
SK 3 is next to the SNG balcony. This is designed to be a shortcut for players using the upper route from the Church. The nearest key is outside on the city facade so even if the player opens this by accident there is another key close by to replace the inventory.
SK 4 is in the far white roof tower. This is designed for the shambler altar close by.
All of the SK keys give the player a choice of what to do, but they also try to help players in certain route directions. This will not be apparent until the player tries the map several times. I know this is going to sound odd but this map really is designed for several play throughs and does reward players who want to try different routes.
BTW is the roof area reachable without rocket jumping?
I'm assuming so, but I never did figure that out. (Maybe I should watch some demos...)
@JL, there are 4 ways to access the roof area and some are easier than others. The ideal route is the Ogre balcony because that is the trigger to spawn the extra monsters.
1. Shoot the button on the upper balcony with the MH and ogres. Tricky to see unless on the balcony and the doors only open when GK is used.
2. Use the lift over by the GL/Zombie courtyard. There is a balcony with ogres on it that can be jumped too and there is a shortcut to the roof.
3. Climb the slopped roof on the left side of the hub. There is a demon door secret close by and the roof is very low at this point.
4. Rocket Jump from multiple locations.
Amazing map. Looks great.
Progression was ok. I didn't know if I was going in the right direction though.
Here is my first play demo on skill 1:
I wasn't really pressured on skill 1. Maybe I should try skill 2.
Haven't played quake for some months, very rusty and I have a weird config which isn't alike to any other game I play. Always have to relearn the controls now.
@SleepwalkR, yeah the ammo can be tight if you take certain routes. I was expecting you to investigate the church because there is a ton of ammo in there. I think this goes back to a comment by negke that it is not obvious which doors open or are locked.
The second demo is epic and once again another player ends the final horde fight with limited health/armour and with SSG on the last shambler. It does feel satisfying to watch as it is a lovely way to end the final fight. Cool to see you got all the secrets as well, a perfect demo, all monsters + secrets on skill 2.
@Preach, that is the strangest thing I have seen in a long time, you are playing Quake without any sound. I can hear all the monsters around you, but you can't. It is like every encounter is a surprise, the perfect ambush everytime. I was constantly shouting at the screen, its behind you, its over there! :)
@Ankh, lovely demo, I liked how cautious you were and how you keep finding new stuff after the final horde battle. You should really try the map again on hard skill and do the GK upper route first. The map is certainly a different beast on Hard skill, you will be surprised.
A demo for all you tarbaby-hating shitsuckers: http://negke.fov120.com/files/zendarimproved.7z
Skill 2 first play demo:
Now, this was more intense.
Somehow missed one part of the map - some 20 monsters. Finished it later but it isn't in the demos.
Died once to the horde surprise.
@Ankh, thanks for the skill 2 demo, I was expecting you to try a different route (upper church route) but it felt very much like your skill 1 demo. Were you looking for any new routes? or just wanted to keep to the way you know to avoid getting lost?
I was just playing the map. Without thinking about the route too much.
Whatever the polar opposite of a speedrun is... that's my play through! Hehe
There's no demo from me as it took me waaay to long. But I enjoyed every minute it took to complete :)
9/10 secrets and,
On Nightmare w/plenty of quick saving/dying/reloading.
I was finished actually at 73 minutes but hadn't found the secret "quad damage" courtyard yet, not that that's impressive!!!
Agree with everyone else here, DEFINITELY one of the best Quake map releases of all time. I loved everything about it.
Seemed like I got the gold key really early on, after only finding one silver key, but then I realised that at that point I had found 0 secrets and killed less than half the enemies (on hard).
Was recording a demo, but died a few times in the large courtyard battle (after teleporting from the balcony area) as I kept using rockets and getting trapped between enemies. I'll upload what I had up until that point.
After that I realoaded a quicksave, finished the fight and then found the exit, but since there was so much left to see and do I started exploring.
Combats were great, always had just enough ammo, and the layout was very complex, although I never had any real trouble knowing which way to go. However, I did a lot of wandering when looking for secrets, although that's to be expected I guess.
Can't believe you put so much work into the secrets and areas the player might never see on this map - it was just crazy! In the end I managed to find all of the secrets, but I did a rocket jump from the balcony to the rooftops before later figuring out the correct way in. However, there must have been another area somewhere in the map I didn't find, because I didn't kill all the enemies.
Time (estimate): 40 minutes to end, 100 minutes+ for all secrets
Kills 216/224 (where the hell were they!?)
Incredible work, and I hope it won't be your last Quake map. I trust you'll at least be making some ITS maps.
Thanks for another great release, Sock.
@damage_inc, I am glad you enjoyed it, I thought you preferred tech style maps based on what you recommend at QuakeOne for people to play. The map is certainly about taking your time and exploring, there is no hurry once you deal with the horde :)
@than, wow you are alive, have not seen you around func for a while. Yeah the map is not a standard progression and if people don't explore yes they will miss out on lots of areas. There are plenty of traditional route maps that have been released lately and I wanted to really do something different with the flow and routes this time.
However, there must have been another area somewhere in the map I didn't find, because I didn't kill all the enemies.
@Than, I don't know how you did it, but you managed to pickup the GL from the church without touching the trigger completely around it! Not sure if this is an engine problem, what client did you use? I suspect the church encounter is the monsters you are missing. Also you went the lower route to the GK, there is an upper route as well which has monster/items with a different challenge if you fancy playing it again.
Secret Not Registering?
i killed the spawn in the small room that you open when you shoot the trigger by the lift, but i'm still at 9/10 secrets.. do i miss something about this secret? how do i trigger it? (i'm using Fitzquake Mark V Final btw)
anyway, amazing map
@Aquashark, the spawn in the small room is an irc joke. People kept asking me to include a button under a lift and a spawn, that is all it is! :P
** SPOILER - ALL SECRETS **
1. Demon door next to NG/SK
2. A closet in the Church
3. Church Garden, church or SK door access.
4. Stainglass window near GK
5. LG outside on city facade
6. Ogre platform in Zombie Courtyard
7. Demon door on balcony near Zombie Courtyard
8. Demon door above Hub in the corner
9. RA in tower on rooftops
10.Shambler room on rooftops
@sock, Yeah, usually I do favor tech/base style maps. But a work of art such as Zendar has to be enjoyed and played regardless of one's general preferences ;) Besides, you nailed EVERYTHING in this release.
Lighting, texturing, gameplay, amazing architecture coupled with great mood and ambiance. Also crazy out the ass connectivity... I go through wondering, how does anyone even THINK like this!!! It truly amazes me.
Thanks again, and Happy New Year's to you.
nevermind, i found it.. i think it was "Ogre platform in Zombie Courtyard"
Obrigado E Feliz Ano Novo!
Left this one for the end :p and I don't regret it a bit... fantastic map with lots of explore places(real paradise) :p
As usually bunnys and jumps was lots of times in wrong places... :)
Died near end but already run all map played second and third time :)
there it goes my first demo!
thanks Sock for this peace of art...
dawn, upload demo to wrong directory... sorry
Oh My God
I dont know how you even begin to make something like this. Truly brilliant map.
147/160 kills, 5 secrets, got to the roof using what's identified as method 2 above (only checked after). Also about 34 minutes playthrough. Oh and got 3 silver keys, not sure where the fourth was.
Very fun gameplay and the design is just mindblowing.
Will definitely play again.
@Trincia, thanks for the demo, but unfortunately it is a DP protocol and DP has terrible demo play back functions compared to Fitz MarkV. Glad you enjoyed the map, hope it looked nice for you on DP.
@nitin, it is certainly designed to be played several times, lots of different routes and things to find. Also you have got Skill 2 to try as well, if you want more of a challenge.
Looks Like You Impressed Marc Laidlaw
this is the guy who writes novels and also wrote the story for the HL games? He has great taste in games according to this interview -
did you ever look into the bug i was experiencing with the roof top armor secret? bit curious to know what happens
Replayed again, found 8 of 10 secrets omg...
Just got around to playing this, and wow... not much I can say that hasn't already been said, absolutely fantastic. Loved the interconnecting layout, being able to approach areas from a multitude of directions, which I think definitely aided in making the combat quite enjoyable as well - nothing too difficult but I really liked being able to approach a situation in so many different ways. I imagine the replay value here is endless.
Also the visuals were gorgeous, it actually felt like a proper inhabited town, very atmospheric. I'd wager the patrolling enemies helped build up under this illusion as well.
I listened to this
while playing and the experience was mesmerizing... just exploring the map, admiring the visuals or searching for secrets, was almost tranquil.
skill 3, 66 minutes, 224/224 kills, 9/10 secrets demo
(I spend a couple minutes wandering around after getting all the kills... really wanted to find that last secret ;p)
Man, I really gotta catch up on the rest of the quality releases from the last couple years as well, still have yet to play Honey...
Also, this is your last vanilla Q1SP map? Say it isn't so!
@Orbs, sorry no, I tried to download your latest demo but the link was broken. Can you provide another link to your demo?
@kaffikopp, what a crazy good demo, you jumped around all over the place and even got the RL early! Fantastic skill 3 demo and it felt like your first playthrough as well! Was a pleasure to watch :)
You're welcome. Now keep making maps so we can give you demos to watch! ;p
@Orbs, wow that is an awesome nightmare run, I loved the rocket jump from GK to the MH secret. The upper route via the church is certainly the best way to get all the powerful weapons first. You are the only person I have seen so far who saves the GA behind the demon door. (I designed it as a boast for the final battle)
I watched your bug demo (zendar_buggy_secret) and you are talking about the YA behind the demon door, but I don't understand how this is a bug? unless you are talking about the shootable door?
Yeah the YA, the secret just doesnt register sometimes, actualy quite often
@Orbs, now I understan what you mean in your demo, I was not sure what you highlighting at first.
The func_door bmodel has one target pointing at a func_secret bmodel with a notouch option. It is extremely odd the door is not firing its target, I checked all skill levels and I cannot get the bug to happen with the Fitz/MarkV engine. What client/version are you using?
i was accidently usign an older fitz version at first (085) but im pretty sure when idid the nightmare 100% i noticed it and switched tomark V (due tomultidemoplayback)
I'll check if i get the bug in other clients
got it in fitz 0.85 mark V and darkplaces within a couple of trys (skill 3). i didi take the sameroute as in the NH 12:07, other routes it happens less. I think it has to do with max_edicts
+max_edicts 2048 increased it to 4096 still happened first try:)
I've got no idea why it happens, I still can't get it to happen for me. I have run the map several times with your route on nightmare skill (god mode) and everytime I shot the door, the secret triggers. I tried different clients Fitz/MarkV/QS and they all trigger fine. I tried to use r_showbbox on your demo to see if the trigger_secret entity is missing but I can't get that information.
Can you do a savegame before shooting the door? Then at least I can try to debug it better.
Got A Sudden Day Off
so that should be np,just waiting for the gf to go work before i start any game:)
i probably noob this up, since it opens it as text, but i geuss you can just copy paste that into a new file. Or enlighten this noob how to do it properly
Pandora's Save File
@Orbs, no worries I opened the file in my browser and saved it locally. Probably the best solution would be to rar/zip it.
I compared the saved file to a fresh one from the start of the map (using my client/config setup) and there is certainly some weird stuff going on. I replaced both the door and secret trigger with versions from my "clean" version and it made no difference. I even checked all the header information and could not find anything out of place.
I went back to the church and killed all the monsters and then went back to the secret door and it works! I think there is something deep within the Quake engine that is having a horrible time with this map. It certainly breaks lots of limits and this save file sort of proves it.
I need to create a special progs.dat file to check out what is going wrong with the door entity and why it is not firing any triggers. It's weird how the door/secret entities function after the body queue has been updated with plenty of fresh head models.
You just need to make maor maps!
Though i must admit i kinda loose you on your last paragraph, I think my geuss was not far away from happens as i noticed it happened more often as i stirred up more (one of the nice things about that route was you can cause infighting from high up a couple of times). Maybe this way you/the community can to stretch the limits of the old baby even more, one of the things about this map i realy liked is was how smooth it played for its size. And some maps from just as experienced mappers just play much less smooth.
@Orbs, are you using a custom/special progs.dat file with this map?
@Shambler, I am, but for my MOD only! :P
even didnt load my cfg in that safegame (isnt much special in it anyway)
Finally played this, wanted to wait until I had an open, stress-free evening at home. Probably my favourite map in years. More feedback in my forthcoming review.
The Year Of Quake
@Tronyn, thanks for the kind words, it sounds like you enjoyed the map. I hope you found the secret garden and got to play on the rooftops!
Well that concludes my year of Quake mapping!
It all started with a small Midnight Stalker
doddle, followed by an obsession with bricks called Backsteingotik
, a journey across time with the Ivory Tower
and finally a stroll through the City of Zendar
All links above have new screenshots, loads of map waffle on how the maps were made and finally a completed 2013 news
Thanks everyone for the comments and hours of demos, I hope you enjoyed my Quake SP maps as much as I have enjoyed creating them.
No Thank You
for these amazing maps!
I'll throw an army of shamblers and fiends at your ass, to chain you on your desk and force you to make more Quake1 maps.
Even in 2014, Quake1 and Quake3 are the **ONLY** worth games on a computer. All the rest simply suck !
In my article "The Lingering Legacy of id Software's Quake: A Glimpse into 13 Years of Darkness" I divided the history of the custom levels into the classic, intermediate, and modern Q1SP periods. Other commentators suggested dividing it into classic, Quoth, and Drake periods. Well, if we aren't getting any more Sock maps, and even if we were, I hope that your work ends up being influential enough that Q1SP post-2013 could be called the Sock period.
thank you for so many awesome hours playing your maps!
Hope to see more in a near future, u are a really talent guy!
Yes, Thanks For The Great Maps.
Hope we'll see some more from you someday.
Of course assuming these are relevant at all. Because no offense to Kinn, but Marcher was still considered the best Q1SP in 2013 because it was big and had hordes?? Tronyn please get your arrested development fixed.
I don't understand: you think I was saying that Marcher would still win by current standards, based on hordes and size? Of course not. I released Wicked, and I don't think Wicked topped Marcher, even though it was larger and had more hordes. I was trying to praise Sock for showing all of us a different way to kick ass.
I meant everything I said in that review. But are you really going to challenge 20/20? Are you saying this map doesn't show a great new way for Q1SP, as rooted as it is in oldschool design? I don't understand the hostility. Can't I, quite honestly, express how joyful my experience of this map was.
Review Seemed Fine To Me.
Though it was more about how awesome Sock was than a critical assessment of the level ;)
@Tronyn, thanks for the review! :D I am very happy with this map, it has the strongest theme/story content and the gameplay/layout was the right balance of player choices and skill settings.
Sock Plz Make Base Map.
Consider it an encore / post-script / bonus / something to your Q1 SP swansong of Zendar. I really want to see what you do with pure sci-fi and pure Q1 sci-fi enemies.
Let's Be Honest,
everyone considers Sock to be the best mapper in the community, but I think unless he does a base map then this can never be proven (personally the greatest base map of all time is Stark Monstrosity IMO, I play it every few months)...
(I hope my reverse psychology plan works)...
Yeah, I just cannot consider sock to be a good mapper until he declares base maps to be the worst kind of maps and makes a coagula map instead.
Sock is a lame mapper : He didn't made any metal map.
Enough With The Lame Jokes
All Of You
Awesome review, congrats Sock the review fits perfect!
20/20 is a proper ratting for suck a great map!
some people born to map and some doesn't :)
I'm pretty sure you born to level design :p
Fun map, took me 18 minutes, found just two secrets (never really look for them) but it's not like I was running short on supplies at any point. Nice clean design like in all of your maps.
Here's a demo:
@Mikko, thanks for the demo, it is always good fun watching Zendar demo's because everyone does something slightly different. Finally someone found the upper garden balcony first and took the route! :) I was beginning to think that everyone was afraid of taking one way routes in Quake maps!
I think the demo is short because it felt like normal skill was too easy for you, I think you should try hard skill, it will give you a better challenge. Secrets do play a big part in this map and they are worthwhile finding, but you did find the largest one, so no real loss with the others.
@Shambler, you don't need to see a tech/idbase map from me, there are tons of tech style maps in production this year! I am sure 2014 will be the year of rubicon2 homage.
Since most of detailing is somewhere above, walls are huge chunks of single color. All that green on the level made me nauseous. Looks bad, was i suppose to look up all the time? Because there's nothing to look at below roofs. Encounter design on first two halls is bad - due to infighting and simple layout 50 monsters disappeared in moments, was a no-brainer for me. And how about that Fiend spawning from thin air behind the player to block him in the room? Some low level shit. The fight began horribly, and it ended horribly - the Fiend was killed by a zombie who was inside one of the "zombie closets". Poor thing couldn't even reach it. There's plenty of such lame monster spawning on the level, feels like the mapper didn't care at all about monster placement, it's much worse that he did previously. Here you've got useless monster turrets, long lines of monsters from one entrance, a huge amount of single ogres, the fights with whom are almost identical all the time. Plus, plenty of places where their grenades can't reach you, including stupid single steps. Most of the Vores were just wasted on lots of boring "pick-a-boo" moments, some killed with easily provoked infighting, because the layouts are as simple as they can get, and 90% of encounters are so flat and boring that i almost fell asleep. The rest 10% are encounters with monster one level above or below (wow such vertical wow), with almost no threat to the player. This two-level layout was present on the previous map from sock, i think it was called The Ivory Tower, very similar. In general, this map plays like a bad Doom slaughter map, almost as flat as a Doom map gameplay-wise, includes a lot of monsters spawning from thin air (what's the shorter name of this crap?, can't remember), and looks bland. I guess you could say that.. sock SUCKS! Ha ha ha ha ha, just kidding, but this map does suck.
Oh, wait, i think that "that crap" is called "teleporting monsters". Or was it "instant spawning"? Dang.
#152 wins func_
3) whatta fuck is goin on?
thin air (what's the shorter name of this crap?, can't remember)
#152 Speaks The Truth
The rest of us have just been lying through our teeth to avoid hurting sock's feelings.
>Great map, Sock.
>No demo from me, since I'm a retard player, playing with God mode and all weapons...
So you write up a massive review about how much this map "sucks", and yet you were playing with god mode and all weapons the whole time?
You might as well have been blindfolded too.
I believe he may have been one of those gentlemen of the "troll" persuasion...
Trolls at least need to be funny though - his wasn't.
That... that was a quote from this thread...
Guess What Turns 2 Years Old Today
You Need Some Ice...
Nice Try CZG.
Sadly I don't refer to my girlfriend as "what" unlike you refer to your fleshlight.
Jesus, 2 years ... what the hell ...
That tourette syndrom brat.
Anyway, gonna play the map.
Didn't play it till the end (it's a long journey), but had a great time. I don't have much to add to the comments. I already said I was impressed by true level art people here get from Quake textures. Now I'm impressed with awesome gameplay Sock got from Quake monsters. Suddenly Quake combat felt fresh again, how is it possible? I guess it's about monster choice and placement fitting with level atmosphere and design like a glove.
This Is Beautifull
when exit/basement was already open I spotted another SK door on the rooftop (couldn't find proper way to activate lift to get there and had to rocketjump), after that I got paranoid and noclipped everywhere to make sure I didn't miss half of the level hidden in secret room 8)
Replayed This Last Night.
Died twice due to dicking around. Then did it properly. Still took me 10 minutes to find the Quad garden. Still an awesome level. So exploration, much wow, etc.
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