|Posted by Cocerello [188.8.131.52] on 2014/06/12 11:21:29|
|Creepily awesome maps by Cocerello, Digs, DOOMer, Fifthelephant, Scampie and Sock.
Please note that one map requires SoA and another requires DoE.
I think you made a mistake, there are pak files in this.
Sock did his that way, his reason is...
I included a pak file because it has a skybox and I wanted to make sure people setup wateralpha. Why no one has implemented a worldspawn key for wateralpha in modern quake clients is crazy.
Here's My Demos
Great maps all round, really like the ambience of the monolithic Koohoo bricks and always have.
Maybe I'll actually release something with it one day :P
Sock's is awesome but overdoes the fog a bit. Not enough to turn it down, but it was distracting.
Scampies had nice gameplay as well.
Thanks to everyone who did maps, there's more comments in the demos.
Unpack sock's and remove the cfg.
There Is Unseen Maps In The Pack, Ijed
I announced in the speedmap thread that i was fixing mine and making a continuation, but got overboard and made 4 half maps too, apart from the continuation, check the pack and the text files for details.
you can try the fixed one too (sm175_coceaa) (not that you have an option if you want to play the continuation (sm175_coceb)), depending on how you play it, the gameplay can change a lot, so it can be enjoyable for you.
About the demos, thank you for taking the time, they were fun to watch. The part about the nail ammo, it is intended that way as a reward for good jumping and curiosity in the form of early ammo.
If Anone Plays Sm175_coceadoe ...
... and you see TWO items on the room on the other side of the SK door, please tell me. I put there a item_random_powerup, but it doesn't show up and i don't know why, and it is well placed.
Going to play the maps now.
New Zip File
@Cocerello, I assumed you would move everything into a new PAK file and let people install it in a new directory. Pak files an awesome way to prevent everything from trashing their ID folder with tons of resources.
Let me quickly create a start/skill map and create a new PAK file for you. Be back in a couple of hours with a new download link.
@ijed, the fog density and setup is completely dependent on what engine you use. Every quake client has a different way to display fog. I recommend to play my map with Fitz, the fog is a lot more subtle.
I did use fitz (so the demos would be in 666 format) but I also have a really big window behind me here and the blackouts are open...
Cocerello, I'll have a run through your extra map tomorrow.
How About No.
I keep every speedmap (except those that really need it) in their own directory and would prefer that.
i keep speedmaps in id1/maps/ and I prefer it that way.
speedmaps should go in /id1/maps/ as standard, and things non-standard should've been packaged separately. I think that leads to the least confusion for users. Quake community is used to that sort of thing, and only creating new directories and such when major mods/maps are done.
I've only played sock's and dig's maps so far, and they are great! I will post thoughts and demos later when I finish playing them all.
What i did was keeping it as was given, and respect the choices the mapper did.
The fact that i hadn't checked the contents at that time is an error from my part, as your text file doesn't say which files are with it, and most people won't know at first who is that .pak files' proprietary.
I thought of giving your files its own folder, but them i would had to do the same for every mapper to put them all on the same stand and that would be problematic to navigate for a speedmap pack and wouldn't look speedmap-like.
If you are going to add something, it is better if you repack yourself the entire pack and let Metlslime or a moderator substitute it at the first post, so we avoid having several fragmented versions.
In that case, the appropiate person should delete it from Quaketastic or Sock should give the new repack something to remind that it is a new version.
I recommend you sm175_coceasoa for the ''a'' map and sm175_cocebdoe for the ''b'' map.
Firstrun demos for you all are on the way.
Let me quickly create a start/skill map and create a new PAK file for you. Be back in a couple of hours with a new download link.
please update the new thread link to sock's link!
Sock Bar Entrance
That start map is great ! Adds a lot to the full pack.
Thanks Sock !
I would have placed just a few monsters in there (dogs ?), just for the fun. Here, doggy, have a bone !
this pack was awesome, some big maps, some small maps, and high general quality.
sock's map is obviously his normal high quality, but besides his I think 5th's might be my favorite. the huge scale (which cocerello also had going for him) and crazy horde combat was fun!
I did enjoy dig's map as well, the layout felt like some kind of weird knot, and I liked it's non-linear gameplay.
doomer's was short and sweet
cocerello: i had a tough time on your first map, and it was really dark :( and then I think I was supposed to play the second one with the weapons from the first? sad times. I do like the scale of your maps though!
Why are the text files now hidden in the pak? I hate this release with all my heart. I guess speedmaps can't even be properly supported at Quaddicted and even less in the Injector. You guys are too creative... :(
I Think That Too
People usually don't look at the text files, even though they will regret it later, but even less people look at the insides of the .pak files, and even less people have a program to look inside them.
About the start map, it is very good and more Vondur like than the rest of the maps, but you forgot to check the fact that my second map is a continuation of the first, and people get confused like what happened with the poor Scampie. The way you did it, almost no one will notice my SoA and DoE maps, they will think that what is put in the first post is a misunderstanding or something. Also, is there a nightmare mode? Maybe i missed it.
To finish. Is there a way to only deactivate the crosshair? In games with huge hitboxes and no sniping weapon, having a crosshair makes it slower to aim, and it is a pain. If you want to put it into your map is OK but for mine i prefer if there isn't.
I guess speedmaps can't even be properly supported at Quaddicted and even less in the Injector.
Why? I'm curious
We would have to track for every single file inside the zip and then inside the pak files what dependencies they have and what command line parameters they require (no wateralpha in worldspawn really sucks and I wish the current engine developers would add it). I once made some plans for that but it would require a ton of work to build and configure which I lack the skills for.
Don't let me de-motivate anyone please, it fucking rocks that you guys map and that you use speedmaps to let creativity flow!
I am SO looking forward to playing this, seems like the most interesting speedmap session in a long time and also reminds me of SM32 in terms of theme. Still haven't played the new Sock or MFX maps; lol how can you guys make new full maps then speedmaps and the whole time I've mapped like 5 shitty hours. God damn it. Something _will_ happen with Drake this summer.
you forgot to check the fact that my second map is a continuation of the first. The way you did it, almost no one will notice my SoA and DoE maps. Also, is there a nightmare mode? Maybe i missed it.
In order to play SoE or DoE you need a new command line, they cannot be played from the start map with the rest of the maps. I did not get the impression the maps were linked, sorry my mistake. Yes there is a nightmare skill, top level, do some jumping.
I hate this release with all my heart.
Why do I bother to make maps for people like you!
Fuck this, I cannot be bothered with the attitude of people in this thread, I am out of here. Good luck with future speedmaps!
* Sock, don't take it to heart so easily, they are just comments, at least from my part. I am grateful that you did a start map for us all, as it adds a lot to the pack, but if there is an issue about it, i think that it is my duty to report it.
Now that i think deeply about it, the issue about my SoA and DoE maps, is hard to work around now that we have a good start map. The only way i thought off is by making my area 128 units larger and putting a second message after the ''Designer - Cocerello'' saying ''There is also SoA and DoE maps'' or ''Manually load the SoA and DoE maps.
* Spirit, i think i got it. Is it the fact that there is 3 mods in the same map-pack? Sock's, SoA and DoE?
Thanks you very much for the demos. They were interesting to see, with many interesting situations. I see that you nailed almost perfectly the way i thought someone would play it, except for your behaviour about running past shalraths and other monsters :) (i see that you did the same with shalraths in some of the other speedmaps). Bet you were surprised when the monster followed you to the other side of the bridge. Glad that you saw easily the SK.
It is a pity that you couldn't enjoy the maps and finish them, the map ''b'' has a big surprise at the end.
you could have given yourself ''impulse 9'' when you found out that map ''b'' is a continuation and Sock didn't notice that fact. I don't mind you using that cheat, but i see that you got tired of dying. It is a pity because you got the hang of it at the end.
About the toughness, it is ammo related. Is right that, as usual with my maps these ones are a bit tight in ammo, but in this case it is more of an issue of you missing ammo by a hair breath.
This is because Sock's ammo models don't blend well with my map's darkness as well as ID models so they are harder to see. Even i had trouble finding the ammo boxes even though i know well where each one is. Also, one more ammo box dissapeared from the map for unknown causes. In total there is 60-80 shells that were gone for you. Play my map without pak1.pak, you'll see every ammo box easily.
Frigging Loved The Theme. Cheers
Got though a few tonight
Scampies finale was really novel and fun.
Digs had some great gameplay.
Cocerello's was interesting, but a little tough (normal).
* Stevenaaus, deleting pak1.pak will get rid of the toughness. The map doesn't take into account that file and breaks the map.
* Onetruepurple. that is a hard one. I don't know which is the best choice: If you delete the start map (but keep the .lit and .map files) there is no more issues with the SoA and DoE maps, but that start map adds a lot and it is a pity to delete it.
Also deleting pak1.pak for everyone is unfair for Sock.
If you keep the pak1.pak only for Sock map so it doesn't break any of the maps we have to keep Sock's map outside the start map, which it is unfair for him as he created the start map.
A Salomonical idea anyone?
Played the first few so far. Coce's and Digs' could easily be full releases in my opinion, really impressive. I first died quickly on Cocerello's map but it was due to the unlit models from sock. I removed them and suddenly saw all the ammo as intended. Awesome end map which (though hordy) is a good example for a non-boss endgame. Demos when I played them all.
spirit take a flying fucking leap.
Demos (minus socks map cos I played it before) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33279452/sm175_daz_demos.rar
these were recorded on Socks updated download.
Scampie's map was really cool. Probably my favourite of the pack followed closely by Socks. I liked some of Digs map (the idea of falling on the buttons then having to work back around) but the layout confused me quite a bit.
I can't remember who's map it was, might have been Doomer, but the red quake buttons were used for pressing button and shoot buttons. I kept on trying to shoot the press buttons and vice versa. Probably want to use seperate textures for each :)
Confusion, Mod Variety In This Pack, Etc
I will admit I was initially put off of playing all the maps because it seemed like a lot of bother having to check every map to see if I needed a mod loaded to play it, then check if I had that mod, then load and play the level.
using mods in speedmaps is no problem I just think perhaps having so many different mods required for one sessions maps is a bit much.
Maybe coordinate which mod to use in future packs? For instance a quoth session or <whatever> mod.
Let's not break established conventions just to force wateralpha, how's that sound.
Please note that they were completed with the version of the pack that was uploaded first, so depending on the version you have, you'll need to change the name of the .bsp files.
And now, for the comments...
Three letters .... W O W. What an astounding pack of maps!!! And all of them with a strong personality.
***Don't read farther if you haven't played the maps. spoilers ahead.***
***Don't read further if you despise walls of text*** :)
* Digs: very complete, more like a palace (metal koohoo palace (very good use of the metal textures)) than a castle or a temple to me, could perfectly be a proper release. The brushwork remind me of Unreal or Quake 3 one. That layout with well done choices and compact and diferenciated rooms enough so you don't get lost. The infightings, even if they seem unfair at first, make for an intense and apreciated combat. Ammo quantity and placement is almost perfect for my tastes. Maybe the part after the GK door till the end isn't up to the rest of the map's level but that is a minor issue.
If what happened with the shalrath using the teleporter in my first demo is intended you need to be rewarded a medal.
* Doomer: very speedmap-like, has an interesting layout, and has a good atmosphere wih the pace of the combats but it isn't completely clear where to go next. The final combat is very good, but it you teleport 2 monsters to the side at the same time as the shamblers it would perfect, as it adds variation to the combat. Just 2 pitiful knights or dogs are enough, just so the secure position of the player behind the rocks is threatened. The lighting and texture alignment andusage lacks a bit too, but this is an speedmap and it can be seen that you used the small time you had well. Keep up the good work!
* Fifth: very well done open combats. The exterior could have used some more greeby brushwork or contrasted lighting to make up, but ... who cares! What is inside is superb, the brushwork and lighting fit it well, and the combats are enjoyable. There is some minor downsides on them, the tartabies aren't frightening as long you put a RL in the map and the scrags at the last fight were a bit spread out, also the ammo was a bit over but OK.
I got used to monster infighting from my map and dig's, so you can see what i did with the poor ogres efforts. They are probably now pulling their hairs out out of frustration and anger ... haha.
* Scampie: the most Quakey of all, architectural style and combats wise. The layouts are interestingly simple but effective and the way you use the terrain very well thought and combines with the combats, that's probably too why the secrets are so well placed and fun to find.
I found particularly interesting the broken columns room no for the combat but for the brushwork and how you use it. It is also something to highlight the combat at the SK doors and the humour so typical in Quake in the form of text messages. Downsides ... maybe the lighting, but the brushwork doesn't need a contrast to look good, it already does, or give it some more curves or just some more non axis-aligned faces.
It is a pity i died just when i needed 2 more kills, but i think that combat is still very good, with aparently no blind spots to hide. Maybe with less shalraths ...
It is a pity too that i played it without the lit file ... now that i tried it, i withdraw my previous comments about the lighting. How the hell you achieved that with colored lighting? A greened dark gray color? I know the answer of this one but ... Why haven't you tried to do something similar with contrasted non-coloured lighting? Tell me your secret.
* Sock: To summarize, good map, Sock, go ahead and transform it into a proper release, it is the best-looking and hard-worked of the bunch. Its nemesis: too big expectations, but that can be fixed with more playtesting.
With what it seems like inspiration from ne_ruins, kinn_bastion and mstalk, this isn't a speedmap, no even a turtlemap, in every aspect of it: big sized in terms of time needed to play it, it isn't very experimental, it uses mainly textures outside of what were used in Vondur's map, nor hasty in contruction and too good looking, so i will rate it as a what it look to me: a proper release. That is also unfair for Sock, as the map clearly lacks the time, polishment and beta testing of a proper release, but i'll do it.
The architecture of the castle is superb, it fits what you wanted very well. The atmosphere is very ne_ruins like. The lighting is good and adequate and the combats fun and varied. The fog adds an isolated and eerie atmosphere. Loved the secrets placement, specially the yA trick. It probably need a key texture on the GK door, as it isn't completely clear what it is, can be misanderstood as the portal the player comes from.
The layout is well planned, i loved the way you use the verticality to add layout details, map progression and secrets. But has flaws, i am not saying that choices in the route are bad, quite the contrary, but after the big setup and the expectation the rites created, the fact that you can bypass one of them and drop unavertly at that one is bad.
There is some combats, mainly at the Rite of gold, that even though are fun, it feels that they lack something. Probably the fact that the ammo is overdone and the big guns are given has an influence on it and probably too that the expectations after looking at the top-notch brushwork and architecture where so high that i expected too combat on that level or higher. About the fog, even though it adds to the atmosphere A LOT, the fact that only works at a distance is a downside as i don't see the fog as fog because is thin and seeing that the colour changes with the distance is weird if there isn't an explanation, isn't beliable, with coloured lighting i think that you could have gotten a similar effect without that downside.
... And Again...
... no screenshots... god damnit !!!
Why screenhots? Look bsp's ;)
Make ones yourself to put in the first post.
Don't you guys follow my blog!?
Also, not seeing a lot of comments on my map. I suppose it's bland maybe? It's just a horde map in a lot of ways I suppose.
I did try and just make the biggest and most open map I could (and the textures seemed very mayan or aztec so I tried to stick to that theme).
nice start map dude.
I can see why people are getting angry. Sock's angry because he put effort into making those maps and Spirits angry cause everything about this speedmap makes it a ball ache to post on quaddicted.
People need to see both sides man. The maps are just a bit of fun, no need to get angry really.
Come on, guys, what Socks has done is just incredible, especially for a speedmap run. His start map adds so much to the pack, he doesn't deserve any crittic at all. Usually, speedmaps aren't so classy and don't deserve any favor from him.
The simple fact that he cared enough to make this awesome start map should be considered as a **huge** compliment to all mappers that participated to this projet.
I guess some peeps are simply jaleous of his incredible talent.
Two beers (no, three !) to Sock !
* Barnak, that isn't the problem. His awesome work is being recognized.
* Fifth, I am not angry. i just want to fix the pack so it isn't broken anymore.
We all know that sock put a lot of work into both the map and into the start map and I am GRATEFUL for that, but the choices he made about making a start and pack everything causes MANy problems, without Sock knowing. It is just a matter of correcting and fixing them, but now that Sock is out, that won't be possible.
Spirit and I are the ones most affected by it.
For Spirit and me was an issue of text files being hidden, causing that the player gets a bad experience as the player won't notice the specification or requirements of the maps
For me is an issue that he added something non intended into the maps that changes them: two of my maps are broken with it i several ways and everyone that plays them gets a bad aftertaste, as I do, as it pains me when i see their demos while i think of how bad it is going for them. And the other 4 maps are put on a second rank. The issue about ammo boxes affect all the maps but I am the most affected since i have the darkest map.
I expect that this explanation ends this mountain that grew from a little grain of sand. The problem isn't that as you are picturing it.
To solve your problem, how about this? You put my SoA and DoE maps on another entry, and we keep sock paks apart from the rest of the maps in a different folder with proper indications about to put it into a different folder and the things that mod breaks. This way, everyone has their own choice, my maps aren't broken, Sock still has his start and pak files if someone still wants them, and you, Spirit, have only two mods to deal with (ID and sock's)
I don't mind doing it that way, as it seems that no one will play those four maps. At least they got me some info: if i were to make a full-fledged SoA or DoE map, almost no one would play it. If still this don't solve it, don't upload at all my SoA and DoE maps into Quaddicted.
What do you think about that?
PS: sorry in advance for the triple post, but i want to end everything and have to make a visible announcement.
DELETE Pak1.pak And Start.bsp Before Playing The Maps ...
...except for Sock's map. They break some maps, and hurts others.
I know I am being unfair to Sock and this words and actions will leave scars but I can't stand anymore seeing people playing a broken map.
I would like to politely ask METLSLIME or a moderator if they could add this warning in the first post. I expect that to end this.
If not the other solution would be of uploading to the first post Onetruepurple's option or the one i asked Spirit his opinion about in the previous post.
New Pack For Final Release
I have updated the zip file at the top of the post and have removed my maps from the zip file. I want to withdraw my maps from this release.
@everyone, please use this as the final release and lets move on.
u R not hax0r enuff to deleet my fielz!!!1
Are You Sure, Sock?
I understand that you want to move on, as this isn't a nice moment for us, but we can work to fix this. This just got overboard in a silly way.
In fact i made a zip file that i do think everyone can be satisfied with.
It has all the files, everything organized into its own folder. Sock has his own, id1 maps their own, soa their own and doe their own. If you want to play with the paks, you can, if you want to play without them, it is organized to.
The text files have instructions to place everything and tells of what you get with each option.
I understand that you want to move on
Yes I do, please go with the final zip I have linked above, I will do something else with my maps and release them another time.
I'll respect your decision.
Thanks for answering, Sock.
And i apologize to everyone. I know that you all prefer to have a new Sock's release instead of mine. It would be better for you all if i had shut up from the beginning. This way we lost Sock's release to get mine.
Case closed from my part.
Thanks To You All I Lost All Interest In This Piss Pot Of A Pack
You are a massive flouncy internet drama queen gaylord!!
Also your map is really cool. Love the fog and the style of the towers. Gameplay is great meaty fun apart from the end which tailed off.
Really Hard To Know What
the issue was. All we need are a few batch files that can launch the different maps correctly. Would have thought that is simple.
By the way, I have been frequenting this forum and QuakeOne.com for a few years using the id "dooomer". I am not one of the authors of this SM pack. Just FYI.
Just Played Socks Map
Pretty cool :) .. almost stepping on Tronyn's toes.
Yah - packaging all these together was a bit of a balls-up.
DaZ And Spirit
Thanks for your demos, and congratulations for being the first ones in noticing the caved-in cave. One cookie for you. Don't fight over it.
* DaZ: congrats on being the first one that fell for the teleported ogre combat. It was quite a good demo to watch. I am glad that you passed through the first map very well and had fun despite the fact that Sock's ammo boxes are very hard to spot and you missed some of them.
The greatest problem was that playing the second with the start map makes it almost impossible due to the lack of weapons, that, and as far as i saw, you couldn't see sock's ammo and health models in that last room. That second map is for playing after the first, as you probably noticed. With the version without sock's mod that it is now on the first post it should work fine.
* Spirit: i have to thank you also for having the patience to rename the maps and delete the the mod so they work fine and for playing them till the end.
you found the secret of the last room!
First demo: About the way to go to the entrance and the combat at it, yes, that is intended. I have put both (the cave and that one) as a choice of non obvious ways to get there. I had planned to have a third route, but time run out.
Also, I would pay to see your face when you saw the hell_knight dissapearing in front of you.
About the extremely dark comment, i understand it if you were writing it while on the sides in the interior part, but in the exterior, for me is too bright. Maps are always tested at gamma 0.3 to avoid this kind of things happening, or at least so they aren't too obviously bad.It is also true that i test them at night ... have to work on the issue of darkness.
Seconddemo: good to see you using the other way and that you passed it even though this
time you forgot to get the NG from the bridge. Nice fights at the entrance and with the shamblers.
Secondmap: i see that you saw the strategy ery quickly: avoid everything and attack first the shamblers. Interesting. Also, thanks to you i'm glad i put the Quad there, i wasn't sure about it. Lastly, the shalraths at the last part aren't supposed to be down there, they have to be at the platforms, like one of them were. Have to check that, it was OK all the times i tested it.
Coce's and Digs' could easily be full releases in my opinion, really impressive.
Hehe ... now i have an excuse if i turn it into a full release and it doesn't get well accepted. <sarcasm off>
If i were, i wouldn't have rewritten the entire post twice to sound as concise and objective as possible, while commenting on Daz and Spirit's present. If my efforts were in vain, there isn't anything else that i can do. I was completely honest when i wrote #51, so please, don't disturb old graves more than i did when i thanked the two of them.
awesome pack... sm175_5th was best for me...
thaks guys for this awesome pack!
All first demos!
ahhh forget to say, where is sock map... :|
First of all, thanks for the demos. They were interesting to watch, you were the one that played it the closest to how i played them. Congratulations on being the first to find the LG. By the way, with normal jumps you can get to it too. I never expect the player to use trick jumps, as i myself am bad with them.
Second, the weapons for the second map are in the first one. The maps aren't standalones. You have more info on the text files. Ah, and the MH is an alternate way.
Was removed at his request. Drama etc innit. Sure you can get it somewhere though ;)
As no one (especially looking at you AAS) seems to give a flying fuck about my wishes and keep posting links to my unfinished speed map without my permission.
So here is an official link
from me that everyone can download/mirror!
thanks for officially releasing it, the start vista alone is amazing!
I take it this means that you wont be doing any more to this map though as you initially planned?
It�s An Awesome Speedmap
indeed. I love it as it is actually.
Just my 2 cents.
just let this speedmap pack die off. I'd rather no one ever play my map than hear this drama again. I now regret I even made this map.
Don't regret, maps are very good! my thanks to all that give there time for us :)
didn't know about drama and I really dont want to know!
here it goes my first demo on socks map!
Just remember there are folks who aren't posting drama who still like the maps. :-)
I would also rather nobody play Scampie's map again than hear this drama!
just let this speedmap pack die off. I'd rather no one ever play my map than hear this drama again.
There is nothing wrong with the maps in the pack
, infact my favourites are by scampie/digs. If me trying to fix the pack so that everyone's maps are presented correctly is drama then indeed I am to blame! :(
I used replacement item models which affected other peoples maps, it was decided I would remove my stuff from the pack and release a working pack
instead. Various arsehats from this forum don't like this and keep posting links to the old pack file.
The pack as you released it was fine IMO. I think the Jam's are a much better idea though, much more consistent with a better focus on what should be created (for example sticking to vanilla stuff etc).
Hell, I'd say the drama that ensued has helped create a better idea of what people want from a community project like a Jam.
Well Said, Sock
i coincide with you on the favorites too, even though i think yours is better done.
Don't regret, maps are very good!
And Trinca, well said too. That should be the most important thing, we all regret things about what we did in this thread, but that should NEVER stop us from mapping.
how is that a speedmap? Granted, there are two small instances of z-fighting type errors so its obviously not typical sock perfection but the main set piece is stunning to look at (great fog colour and coloured lighting once again) and gameplay is very polished and fun.
True nitin a map to replay for sure.
This pack is the first in my huge backlog of maps to play - both mapjams still to play
Fifth: Really impressive scale for a speedmap, loved the use of many spotlights to create interesting lighting. I kept misjudging jumps and falls due to the grand scale though! I found both keys before their respective doors, but other than that and too long hunting for the underwater buttons progression was fine.
I found the secret, and since it was right at the very beginning of the level I didn't have to explore after 20 seconds, which is a bit of a shame, but also an unfair criticism of a speedmap - I guess it's a useful idea for regular maps to hold back at least one secret until the end. Gameplay was never unfair and I didn't even mind the spawns, as there was acres of room to dodge them, plus opportunities to use them against other enemies effectively.
Cocerello: This map on the other hand really annoyed me with spawns, frequently trapping me with them in spaces that were not only cramped, but underwater to boot. The first map had again an imposing, large scale exterior, but the dark lighting was a bit of a shame as much of it couldn't be seen. Darkness also caused problems on the latter map, with monsters on high which were invisible and an exit gate that was pitch black open and closed.
I don't know if balance was better on the mission pack versions, but I played on vanilla and constantly felt under-equipped for the battles. On the first map this made me veer between worry that I'd taken a shortcut past all the weapons, and moments where I felt real tension. On the second map it was just frustrating, it took about a dozen attempts to beat, epitomised by the attempt where I first beat wave 1, and was immediately dropped into lava for my troubled. It was a shame to find it such a slog, because the design of the final arena which expanded out, then expanded out again was really cool. The balance just needed to be adjusted.
Digs: Really loved all the chunky architecture across the walls and ceiling, solid designs throughout. Flow through the level was a bit confusing at first - having a very early teleporter which takes you to a new part of the level is disorientating (although using it to escape voreballs with no other cover was cool). But the way the level looped around, taking you past the gold key, then the gold key door, then back round again once the key was unlocked worked well for me (although I wasn't sure what the button that unlocked the gold key did at the time), and how the level finally joined up was neat.
Combat-wise this map was never unfair - I had a shortage of ammo near the 6 ogres but I think that fighting past them to grab the ammo was the idea there. The big climax of the map seemed to come in the horde combat shortly after those ogres, which was fun, and then everything else seemed more tame. I guess had it not been a speedmap we might have seen a bit finale before the end.
Doomer: shorter and slightly boxier than the previous maps, but much more in the speedmap tradition. I liked the green room with the ogres best, seemed more colourful and lush than Quake can usually achieve. I also liked the series of fakeouts with the switched-on lights before the shotgun ambush, and although the end combat wasn't too dangerous, weighing up the rocket launcher against the other low powered weapons was an interesting choice. I'm sure someone has already recommended different textures for shootable and push buttons...
Scampie: A really well polished map, coming out of the cave the lovely sky and the coloured lighting to match just popped, and the rest of the map had a great sense of place. The ending was pretty weird and abstract, but I guess that was the point. It kind of reminded me of those paintballing arenas where realistic design takes a backseat to making interesting terrain to hide behind and shoot over, and that suited the combat.
The rest of the map was well paced, and for the most part I was ok for ammo - I ran out of shotgun shells early, but with a surplus of nails that was no problem. The shambler after the three keys sucked up my last nails and shells, but partly because he was guarding the route to the packs on the ledge in the lower hub area. The best ambush in the map came from the broken pillar room - I first visited before I'd found the key buttons under the hub, with the dungeon key already under my belt. After using that key I came triumphantly back for the second and got caught completely off-guard...
Not played sock's map yet, as that's now gone into another thread...
but I played on vanilla and constantly felt under-equipped for the battles. On the first map this made me veer between worry that I'd taken a shortcut past all the weapons, and moments where I felt real tension
Maybe, i don't know without a demo. The first map lacks of a SNG and RL, the rest of the weapons are placed there, with the LG as a secret, and must be carried on to the second map.
If you want to be sure of how the map is, watch Spirit's demos from post #39. He got and killed everything except the LG and a ring of invisibility, and finished the two maps, so it is a good reference to check them.
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