|Posted by killpixel [22.214.171.124] on 2014/07/03 01:58:58|
|Way Too Many Screenshots Trailer
Unfinished, Yet Released
Sadly, I'm releasing my first, and only, "real map" in an unfinished state. Because I simply lack the time, the probability that this map will never see completion is very high. I'm not fond of releasing unfinished stuff, and I very nearly chose not to. But, the thought of this thing dying in obscurity on my harddrive wasn't a pretty thought either. If this was near completion, I would just finish it. Horrifyingly, it still needs somewhere in the neighbourhood of one to two hundred hours of attention (for what I had in mind, anyway). Ain't nobody got time for that.
This map happened by accident. I wanted to see what it really took, at a technical/logistical level, to make a map. I laid down a few brushes and familiarized myself with the program. One thing led to another and soon enough I had 5 hours into the map. My thought then was, "well, it's not like I can just stop now." I then proceeded to tumble down the rabbit hole. 5 hours turned to 20 hours, 20 to 50, 50 to 100, 100 to 200, 200 to 300. I think this map has about 300 hours of my life in it. Knowing that and looking at the map, the appropriate response of any experienced mapper is "...how tha fuck?" The long hours are due to learning how to map, doing things wrong (like tons of brushes) and redoing them, iteration, brain farts and completely scrapping entire areas because they didn't make the grade. Plus, I like to compile the map and check it out every 10 brushes.
I released an earlier version of this on QuakeOne about a year ago. That would explain any deja vu you may be experiencing.
About The Map & Suggestions
This doesn't play like a Quake map. I never had the intention of making a Quake map, it just happened to be the game that was available. I say that so you don't get your hopes up or go in guns blazing only to find yourself at spawn over and over again. It plays like a less forgiving Doom3. In all honesty, gameplay was not on my radar for the first third of the map, I just wanted to make something pretty. There are some purists out there that don't believe in quick saving... well, good luck with that.
No single section is 100% complete. Some are close, others are empty walls lit by one bright light with one or two random enemies near by. Areas that have not yet been connected by geometry, or made for use later in the level, are tied together by teleporters.
Fuck. I wish I had the time to finish this thing.
Oh yeah. Play this in the dark, preferably with game music. I genuinely wouldn't bother trying to play this in a well lit environment. If you complain "it's too dark" I'll know you played it in the light...
Compatibility & Issues
Unfortunately, this map is a no-go for DirectQ (which is the engine I used exclusively when making this). Among other anomalies, a key entity (door) in a particular gag is invisible, totally destroying the surprise of the gag. The very beginning of map is broken in FTE, it doesn't like the spawn set up I've got going on. KPCN isn't very well play tested in anything other that DirectQ and Darkplaces. For overall best performance and compatibility, I would recommend Darkplaces.
I strongly suggest nearest texture filtering. Linear causes some artefacts by way of "smudging" in parts of the texture that should not be visible, including fullbrights in some cases. It also shows a lot of seems in some hacked up surfaces. And it's just ugly at this texture resolution.
Use texture packs at your own risk. Some textures are custom and will clash. One secret area relies on a fullbright button, which wasn't on a texture pack I tried (can't remember which one).
I've included the source for a couple reasons. First, for some comedic material. Really, there is some wacky shit going on. Remember, noob map. Second, if someone (or more) gets a wild hair and wants to complete it, well, I think that'd be just fine. Perhaps, even if several people just wanted to add a few rooms and neat ideas then hand it off to the next guy, that would be stellar. Just saying.
Damn, enough yapping, here's the download
Just Checked Out The Shots
very nice designs, looks quite Scourge of Armagon-ish.
I'm going to have to make time to play all the new maps coming out.
me too. the map jam looks great. I'm pumped.
So Just To Clarify
this is fully playable? or will I have to do things like noclip etc because its not gameplay complete.
the game will just kinda stop... you'll run out of bad guys and places to go.
The map takes me about 10 minutes to zoom through on boss mode. You should get at least a decent 20+ minutes of gameplay.
Sad its unfinished, here�s a demo
made with QS.
No problems from this side.
Very inspiring in places, very plain in others.
I know the amounts of time one can put into mapping and modding can�t be justified by healthy minds..
Glad To See A New Mapper
Going to play this eagerly.
I then proceeded to tumble down the rabbit hole. 5 hours turned to 20 hours, 20 to 50, 50 to 100, 100 to 200, 200 to 300.
Don't worry, that's common for the first maps. My first map, that made in 1997, took me many months. If i were to make it today, with a few hours i would have enough.
If you find mapping too much time consuming, i recommend you to try with speedmaps sessions. They are funnier to map and even if you go overboard with it, you won't spend too much time.
Plus, I like to compile the map and check it out every 10 brushes.
That's probably the biggest time consuming thing you did. And the one that makes you more bored with mapping, at least for me. Check it out no more than once per 4-5 hours and you will do it way better.
For learning how things work i recommend you to do a test map with squarish rooms with one test per room, linked by teleporters, so the test in one room won't interfere with the ones at the others. Compiles faster and you'll focus on those tests.
Try a bit of speedmapping, it may help you build up speed in making maps. Try different techniques, like blocking out gameplay (a lot of mappers do this) and then make prefab shapes to work with.
I'm sure you released an early form of this map before that I had played, or maybe I beta-tested it a long time ago. I will have another look.
How to release a map nitpicking:
Lowercase ALL files and directories.
Best usability is to name everything the same, directory, bsp but that's not that important.
You could have just copy'n'pasted the text you wrote on func into the readme, then the zip would be self contained.
From what I read here the map has no exit trigger? That's a huge shame and something that should definitely be mentioned in the readme. Coultn't you just add some random ugly teleporter somewhere?
Time to play!
WARNING: Couldn't load sound/equake/rumble.wav
OVerall a mixed bag for me. Fantastic setting and brushwork, great doors. Jump scares got old quickly, might have been more effective with 1/3 of monsters. Low ammo/health at the beginning was annoying. Some "dreams" were nice, others didn't work (weird girl in the closet?).
Cool Ideas There. Plenty Of Fun.
Demo in nightmare. Missed one monster, i suppose an ambush in a corner i haven't visited.
Agree mostly with what Spirit said:
- It is a mix of different styles and rooms so it lacks a lot of coherence, even in the base parts. It is a map done for the fun and to learn, so i suppose thats why it is like that.
- Brushwork is a mix of 199x's style and more recent one. There is lots of nice things to look at and I loved particularly the start part, the corridor where the GK room is (that upper part that goes to the infinite), the parts where the huge cylinders are and many more. It loses quite a bit in the zones where there is no monsters, because you have time to look at every corner and detail.
- The layout of each part is good, and gives lots of options for good combats and secrets.
The ambushes where plenty fun and were way better thanks to the ambient of the map. They gave me plenty of ideas, as i am trying to replicate for Quake the combat in the Lisbeth part of Undying in some maps i have been mapping along this year. They lose a bit with time, but OK.
They would be better with less monsters, but i do think that half or one third of what you put is enough of a cut, not necessary to take out two thirds out.
The weird shambler encounters, i couldn't understand them, but where cool for a jump scare.
- Cool addition of sounds, well placed and chosen.
- Low health was a big issue at first, mainly because the player isn't used to the type of gameplay the map provides.
- That girl ... putting it plainly, surprised me.
Welcome To Func_, Killpixel.
shame you didn't finish the map. I'll play it for you.
I'm Having A Little Trouble Downloading With WinRAR
I get these errors: ! C:\Users\Justin\Desktop\kpcn2014.zip: Unknown method in kpcn2014\PAK0.pak
! C:\Users\Justin\Desktop\kpcn2014.zip: No files to extract
I can't get the PAK to extract properly.
Same for the contents of src.zip, so there goes me compiling it on my own ;~)
Works perfectly fine here, using 7-zip and QuakeForge's pak utility.
I noticed that apparently I had an older release in the "kpcn" directory and when I blindly copied the line from the readme, well, you know. So my demos above are for an old release... Sorry (that's what stupid people do when the packaging invites silly mistakes)! :(
Using 7-Zip, I had no problems. However, after seeing people have problems here, I tried the built in Windows 7 unzip and it couldn't extract the pak file claiming an "unspecified error". I didn't try the src folder.
I really didn't expect to see demos. Very, very insightful. Some people play not at all how I anticipated.
One thing that's painfully obvious when seeing this is that the level was made for the level designer/artist, not the the player.
I used 7zip to pack. WinZip, for example is probably having issues with the LZMA algorithm. Sorry 'bout that, 7zip will work.
I've got more to comment on, but I have a day of errands ahead of me, I'll get back later.
One thing I will say: Take it slow, as tedious as it surely will be. The map is very scripted, which as a player I dislike. But damn, as a mapper? I think it's neat.
The scripting is great, just a bit too much for me. Spread out over a whole episode, the same amount would work fantastically (HINTHINTHINT!).
I'm not sure how to view your demos?
I can open it them with Dzip, but I'm not sure I should be doing that...
What engine did you use?
Sorry, I used reQuiem which detected the map to break protocol 15 and chose to use protocol 10002.
Here is a beta http://chunk.io/f/d0bf59d08b5c4d8692ad30df8b7e9bb6
, might require zlib1.dll from here: http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/downlinks/zlib-bin-zip.php
(if so, please tell me). You can launch the demos straight from the dz with the demo browser then: Singleplayer -> Demos -> type "kpcn" to find them. Enter to play, cursor keys for controls.
Alternatively you can use bjp/aguirre's glquake.
Reqiems .dz Playback Is A Nice Feature!
This Map Is Exactly What The Screenshots Show
A bunch of dark corridors with a lot of detail, and hardly any vertical gameplay. Everyone who complained about Ruined Nation being too much like Doom 3 should play this and reevaluate.
Some rooms looked awesome, with interesting texture choices, a LOT of meticulous detail, and moody lighting. But I've known that ever since I saw the first screenshots over a year ago, and I was looking forward to PLAYING the map. And it turns out it's a flat, non-intersecting layout with barely any sense of progression
? C'mon son!
The "nightmare" schtick was pretty cool at first, but eventually became overused and annoying. If one doorway in the map ends up collapsing into darkness, it's okay. If this happens nearly every time... I just end up expecting something to happen at every turn and there's no surprise at all. (Mental note to self: seriously rethink the plans for the E4 tribute...) And seriously... that one thing
you did was over the line. You know which one.
I'm sorry if I sounded harsh but that's just what I thought. Better luck next time and please don't put 300 hours in it.
Great Bunch Of Maps!!
"Play this in the dark"
The lighting is too dark for me. I my opinion all that detail gets lost. I relight with tyrutils -range .7 -dist .6 -extra4. The global relight made some parts over bright. Screen shot of before and after.
You could get an entire map out of just that texture set. Looks awesome. What wad file is it?
"I think this map has about 300 hours of my life in it." That's Quake mapping for you. It's not really the map, it's 300 hours of learning. The thing with Quake is it's deceptive nature. It can bury you with possibilities.
Cartographer's Nightmare while not a complete and coherent map in itself is full a great pieces. Good prefab material, good reference for future maps.
What a ride! I've never been so on the edge of my seat, just anticipating what sort of trap was going to happen next. The lighting and design was very dark and claustrophobic, which really added to the tense situation.
Obviously I would get tired quickly of a map pack that had trap after trap, but in this case it was a refreshing change of pace, and I really enjoyed it, despite the map itself not being finished.
First run in hard mode demo, recorded in enhanced glquake, protocol 10000:
Fantastic job KillPixel :)
Anyone Have A Workaround For The Winrar Error?
@mfx - thanks for the demo, you didn't play as I thought most people would. Not to fault you of course, the player is always right. Impressive that you survived aggroing 5 rooms and tripping 3 traps at once :P
@Cocerello - I'm glad there was at least something in there you could take away from it. This map is just bunch of ideas n' consecutive order. I wanted the final version to have about 300 enemies :]
@onetruepurple - I'm sorry if I sounded harsh but that's just what I thought.
Hehe, not harsh, I agree with everything said, and then some. My own critique is not nearly as charitable as yours and could quite possibly make a full grown man cry. I rather enjoyed your play through. I feel that you got "lost", fell down the elevator shaft and such on purpose.
As any sort of playable map, KPCN falls far short of anything of quality. For what it is though, a sketchpad of sorts where various doodles are strung together to resemble some sort of coherent shape, it has some interesting things.
For the record, I love Doom3... if that's not already obvious after playing this.
@mechtech - Those textures should be in kpcn.wad, in the src folder. Feel free to pick KPCN apart and take something of use, make something cool!
@Orl - Glad you liked it! This plays very differnently than vanilla quake. Depending on what you're looking for, that can be a good or bad thing. However, you missed the blue door and last 3rd of the level! Hehe, I thought it was pretty clearly marked. Maybe the fact that it doesn't use a standard door texture led to some confusion... (HINT: When you grab the blue key, a window opens revealing the door to go to).
7-zip will do ya
Thanks for the textures. Will start a map now. Plan is to make a map I can complete, use ID1 progs.dat and KEEP IT SIMPLE hehe. oh and no looking up things
Not bad. I do have an early version of this. Not sure how much has changed since I haven't played it in a while.
I made a demo, dunno what use it is for you since the gameplay is so linear.
Sorry I forgot to record a demo but my blind play through is on my twitch vod http://www.twitch.tv/tddaz/b/544467306
you will need to fastforward to near the end as it was the last thing I played on the stream.
I didn't enjoy the game play on the level much at all. Just when I was settling into a groove of killing enemies something crazy and annoying would happen to remove me from the environment.
The level was quite pretty to look at but it was very flat with barely any z axis to work with. I felt like I was constantly bashing my head against the ceiling when I jumped.
You can get my entire stream of thought in the twitch vod :)
Time To Upgrade P7zip
Feckin pain in the arse
cp makefile.linux_x86_asm_gcc_4.X makefile.linux (or similar - see README)
cp bin/7za /usr/local/bin
7za x kpcn2014.zip
That was amazing - ta. Really achieves a lot that so many scare shooters have tried to do. No-one that i've seen in Q1/Q3 has done this so well.
Apart from being short, my only criticism is the doll - while being totally f-ing amazing - is, in retrospect, out of place with the theme.
@FifthElephant - Thanks, interesting to watch.
@DaZ - Heh, your playthrough was interesting and gave me a petty good laugh a couple times.
I have no intentions of making another map for Quake, but maybe if another map jam comes along I'll try making a proper map.
@stevenaaus - Cool glad you liked it! Funny to see such differences in opinions.
I would love to see a map from you!
Also this map looks awesome, I LOVE the way that rather than being predictable, this map is full of random and shocking/spooky surprises. It's like the F.E.A.R. of Quake maps! Nice work!
Glad it tickled a fancy or two, to one degree or another.
I'll check out the next speedmap session and/or map jam. I think mapping in a structured way would be cool (predetermined art direction/playstyle and a deadline). Plus, making a quake map in the classic style would be sweet as well.
We shall see!!!
I Liked This
You've certainly got an eye for what looks cool, and how to twist expectations to spook the player.
I think you should remix Hell in a Can.
Can We Please Have A Normal Zip File
I dont really want to d/l another program just top open this psrticular zip.
You Should, Nitin
There is more files in this board or in Quaketastic that are in .7zip extension (one third of the demos in Quaketastic, for example). And that extension is probably the third most used nowadays in Internet, as .ace and .arj aren't as used as 20 years ago. The official program is pretty neat too, and free, so no more piracy with winrar.
I'm glad there was at least something in there you could take away from it. This map is just bunch of ideas n' consecutive order. I wanted the final version to have about 300 enemies :]
There is always things to learn in any map, but as this one is a bundle of ideas, there is more. For example, the room after the NG with the huge cylinders. When i'll look at the source, i'll see way more.
For the record, I love Doom3... if that's not already obvious after playing this.
I can't see Doom 3 in there at least from the layout and brushwork, those areas are too open for Doom3.
And here i thought that your inspiration was from movies like Alien an Forbidden planet ...
I'll check out the next speedmap session and/or map jam.
Good, good, one more acolyte to the cabal.
The pak file is packed with LZMA inside that zip archive, what a weird thing to do.
Any chance that you simply add a exit trigger in the closet at the end? The map is totally worthy of being a full release. (And rename that stuff and fix the readme and use a plain zip ;) ).
I can't see Doom 3 in there at least from the layout and brushwork, those areas are too open for Doom3.
But you can see it in the monsters constantly appearing everywhere but in front of you. :)
I was serious, by the way. casspq1rmx. It's right up your alley. I tried to remake it for Doom3 way back but it was way too big a project. If you don't, I'm gonna steal all the cool looking bits out of your map and do it myself.*
*never actually gonna do this**
**but I wanna
Stuff N' Fluff
@ Lunaran - Glad you liked it. I was thinking about going through and uniquely texturing the whole thing... (I jest)
@ nitin - Looks like spirit has got you covered. I didn't realize LZMA wasn't well handled by other programs. Ironically, I opted for a zip instead of a rar for the sake of compatibility :/
@ Cocerello - And here i thought that your inspiration was from movies like Alien an Forbidden planet...
I guess I meant Doom3 from a gameplay perspective. Visually, influences are Alien and Star Wars (like 90% of all scifi).
@ Spirit - If I repack it into a normal zip (which I very well may do) I'll put a trigger at the end. However, I really don't think it's worthy at all of being a full release. Only half the level is even present. What needs to be fixed in the readme? Just add general info?
Anyway, still really neat to see the different viewpoints. Some things that people liked others really disliked, namely, all the gags ans scripted events.
This got me thinking about contrivance in video games. Ultimately, my thought process became increasingly ontological but the gist is this:
A video game is a contrivance as is every mechanic contained within. In my example, moving the player around and altering the terrain with scripted events is a very heavy handed, or obviously contrived, form of progression. However, is it any less contrived than moving the player around simply by map layout? Granted, using map layout is more subtle, as it's very organic and mimics fundamentals of the real world. As a human, our possibility of movement is determined the the available space to move through. But, one way or another, the player will be ushered from point A to point B. They can either get there by taking a left, then a right, up some steps and so on, or by having the floor fall out from under them or some other scripted event.
I guess for some people, scripted events (myself included) shatters the illusion of choice, which really is just that, an illusion. As I said, the player will make it from point A to point B one way or another. The art of making a game, I suppose, is making things fun while suspending disbelief, or at least to get the player to buy in to whatever you're selling.
Meh, ok, I'm just gonna stop right there. I wanted to talk about how various game types, stories and other vehicles of progression come into this idea, but this could get ranty. Plus, I doubt I'll say anything that hasn't already been thought about to great lengths by everyone here.
That's Funny, I Was Going To Nominate
Hell in a can for the next 'let's play' thing actually.
We don't know what's missing and I thought it was a damn fine map!
The readme could have things like a date and your post at func as information. The commandline is wrong, it is "+map" not "-map".
to add a trigger_changelevel to the map and pack it.
+5 for your submissiona to the next speedmaping session or map jam.
+10 to the hell in a can remake.
Handy Extraction Utility
With the discussion of the compression used on this file, I wanted to let you know of a really nice Windows (also runs on OS X and Linux with a bit of extra work) extraction utility I found last year.
If you go to the Support section and then click on "portable version", you can d/l a .zip file which doesn't install anything else onto your system - The .exe version has an offer for some other software. Just look for the file dated (at the time of this writing) 30-Mar-2014.
I use this software mainly for accessing old .sit Macintosh files I have and it works fantastic. Also handles a ton of other formats including the file here without problems.
Highly recommended program and really the only one you will need as it is so light weight and useful.
Please note, I have no connection with this other than being a very satisfied user.
Is There Going To Be A Repack Version Of This Map?
That was awesome killpixel. This is what a modern version of hell in a can should be like, in fact it's what the original should be like. Really feels like a twisted sci fi ship at times.
I do think you should have finished it. Even if you just put 10 hours into it, chopped out the unfinished sections. There was really only 2 or 3 areas that were clearly unfinished, you should have just cut those out, chucked in a teleporter to get the player back on track. Then put some big ass shamblers in for a bit of a finale. Surely not more than 5-10 hours?
But yeah the level of detail is some areas was fantastic, the lighting fantastic though you do really need to play at night. The scripted sequences good. I like the variety in textures as well. It might seem slightly incoherent/inconsistent, but I liked it and who says a map should only feature ONE texture set.
Now that you've got the first 300 hours out of your system, you'll probably be able to do another map this big in 30 hours.
OTP... you only check your map in-game every 4-5 hours... wtf? lol. I'd be every 10 brushes as well haha you want to be satisfied as you map not spend 5 hours on something, then go in-game and discover you'd made it all too small or too dark.
I Was The One
That said to only check the map in-game every 4-5 hours. But 4-5 hours was an exaggeration, every 1-2 hours is more like how i do it.
I mapped for years while checking every few brushes like you but it was a torture and got bored and tired of replaying the same parts over and over, apart from all the time lost in replaying so many times. Maps that would take a week took months that way, and some were left unfinished because of that. That is also because when you check so many times, you focus too on small details, and detail by detail. That consumes a lot of time.
What you say is true too, but you'll always change the room sooner or later, so why not wait a bit so you can check more things at once. Same with lighting and triggers. Check several at once so you save time.
It depends mostly of the mapping style: it is different if you go room by room, than going phase by phase (rough layout (i usually do this mostly by sketching on paper)-- brushwork -- detail brushwork -- lighting -- rest of entities (not necessarily in this order)).
I check the map after i complete one of the phases for a few connected rooms, or in a half of the map if it is about entities, that way there is enough new things to look at and check, i don't lose so much time, and there isn't a big backtrack if i have to redo a part. Of course i check it more and more as i get more and more into details and near completion.
I am currently very satisfied with the current method, as i can churn out maps quickly and every time i return to the old mapping method mapping becomes sluggish. I particularly hate when i have to tweak the lighting over and over, dozens of times to achieve a particular level of detail.
By the way,in here
there is lots of options to try related to speed in mapping.
@Spirit - Thanks :]
@Yhe1 - Not in the immediate future, but I'll make time for it.
@[Kona] - Glad you dug the map, and yeah, I wish I could finish it... this makes me sad, probably more than it should.
After stepping back and looking at it, I think this map does elaborate on aspects that are uncommon in Quake, making some parts somewhat unique (to Quake).
My next project will be rad though, just wait and see!
For some reason I can't get the pak file out of the zip; Windows gives me some error message. Anyone else getting this?
Check Post #40
The link that is posted in the first post uses LZMA compression, which some people don't have.
Post 40 has a link for a file made with a more common compression method.
Ok thanks, it worked.
Anyway, the OP didn't say anything about FitzQuake, which I almost always use, so I went for DarkPlaces (which was recommended). Not really the biggest fan of DarkPlaces and I don't know if the demo I recorded even works (does it keep recording after you die or stop like in Fitz?). In any case, the last Shambler got me because I had no bullets at that point so I loaded an earlier save and tried to avoid him. I take it the map ends after you step into the portal below the platform with those two Ogres? Too bad you couldn't just put an ending trigger in that portal or something.
The finished areas looked good but DarkPlaces doesn't seem to do the map justice. I probably should have played in Fitz but was worried it wasn't supported. The map's gameplay was okay but clearly unpolished, and the traps felt a bit too random rather than trap-like. Too bad you spent so much time on a map that's still so unfinished. Maybe you can start a new map now without all the baggage.
Anyway, here's the demo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/y0khqhz3eio4aj8/mikkodark.zip
That's that's wrong...thanks Spirit
That's what's LOL ;)
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