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R U B I C O N R U M B L E P A C K
Is complete. It features maps by myself, MFX and Hrimfaxi. It's based off Rubicon2 and includes a few new enemies and features.

Download links: quaddicted / dropbox

Here's the link to the required engine (quakespasm svn r980):
http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60452&start=1108
I'm sure more engines will support this pack with time.

UPDATE 1: Devkit is now available here

UPDATE 2: Patch (bsp + lit): https://www.dropbox.com/s/2lk84vnzy3oeaeo/rrp_patch103.zip?dl=0

Full Patched Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5xzckbmk99yz8mp/rrp_v103.zip?dl=0

Fixed Bugs:
HOMS through walkways at odd angles
Zfighting inside door frames
Unmarked / broken secrets
Crash on easy skill
Items falling out of level

New Stuff:
Added coop starts (untested)
Added dirtmapping
Added brushes to better divide the visleafs (performance)
Added some dynamic helper signs to aid navigation
Various miscellaneous tweaks and gameplay fixes
Sweet 
Ready to rumble :). Through the door, start map is gorgeous. 
Yep 
MFX knows how to do pipery :) 
Just Looked At The Bsp Sizes 
holy hell! 
FUCK ! 
Dude, I tried this pack on Quakespasm OS X, and there's a huge screen redraw problem, like some walls are getting invisible or something.

It's the first time I see this problem. 
Two Maps Crashed To The Desktop With: 
********************************************
ERROR-OUT BEGIN

Shutting down SDL sound

QUAKE ERROR: Mod_LoadBrushModel: maps/telefragged.bsp has wrong version number (844124994 should be 29)

dano@dano-on-tux:~/quakespasm-0.85.9$
********************************************

From what I've seen it's gonna be awesome once I get the engine prob sorted. 
Are You 
Using the engine listed in the readme?

Nothing else will work! 
Maybe This Needs To Be Changed In The Readme 
" ...the preferred one is Quakespasm (august 29th prerelease) 0.85.10"

Should note instead that it's mandatory. 
And Sorry 
Barnak, you're the first to test on Mac... 
Engine 
In theory certain others will work, but they're untested and most likely missing features like fence textures.

The error above is an engine that does not support BSP2, so will not load the main maps at all.

Others support it and may work, but most probably don't have enough limits raised to support the level requirements properly. 
Heh? 
I did test it on Macs.
No problems there for me. 
^^thasme 
 
FSAA 
Ok, I've found the source of my problem : FSAA (from the latest QS).

Removing FSAA solves the issue (but WTF !?).

The first map I played was awesome. Need to find the other map entrances... 
 
Yeah, here's the link to the required engine again (quakespasm svn r980):
http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60452&start=1108
I'm sure more engines will support this pack with time.

Barnak, thanks for the bug report. that's weird fsaa would cause issues, but glad you got it working.

For linux users, here's a suggested command to build the engine from source:

sudo apt-get install libsdl1.2-dev gcc subversion build-essential libvorbis-dev libmad0-dev libogg-dev
svn co svn://svn.code.sf.net/p/quakespasm/code/trunk/quakespasm@980 quakespasm-r980
cd quakespasm-r980/Quake
make

Sorry it's a bit inconvenient, ideally there would be a stable Quakespasm 0.85.10 release already, but the timing didn't work out.

--

So excited this is out, and going to play it tonight! 
Congratulations Guys 
Looking forward to playing it, though probably won't get a chance to for a LONG time.
What I have seen, forever ago, was already very very impressive! You should all be super fucking proud. 
 
This defaults to the pixelated mode. Can there be an option to use filtering. Thanks 
Gl_texturemode 6 
delete quake.rc from the pak if putting the above in autoexec.cfg doesnt work. 
 
Yeah I personally know how to change it, but not everybody does 
Yep 
I have never liked the practice either. 
Hm 
Maybe I should have been more conservative with forcing such things on the player.

But with that frame of mind the pack would never have been made in the first place.

The fence textures not being filtered is worth it.

And that's as close to an apology I'll get for adding the rc file. 
Hmm... 
Filzip doesn't think this is a valid zip file. What zip opening program do i need for this? 
7-Zip Can Open It 
 
 
tried 7-zip too (9.20 which is the latest stable version) ... says it's not valid. 
 
It's bad enough how sock always forces his settings onto the users, there's absolutely no need to follow his example. This one even changes the resolution for no reason. Fuck it!

Is this compressed with 7zip using the "ultimate" compression preset for zip by any chance? Should always only use "maximum" for compatibility. 
 
okay, false alarm, the zip format opens fine in filzip now. I just had to re-download it a couple of times. Maybe the download got corrupted. 
Metl 
maybe re-download? I've unzipped it with 7-zip 9.20, the "unzip" command-line tool, and the OS X built-in unzip utility.
The zip I have is 85,407,483 bytes. 
 
Worry not, proper download link is here: https://www.quaddicted.com/filebase/rrp.zip

It's a standard zip btw. 
I Erased The Beta Folder And It Said "666 Elements Deleted" 
 
 
Wow, that's quite impressive! I finished Hrimfaxi's map on skill 3 and died 5 times. Hunters are really brutal!

Gonna post demos later for all the maps. 
Uhm 
is there something wrong with your map ijed, or is the player being halfway lowered into the ground right from the start intentional? 
 
Intentionally, save a lot, don't bother about demo recording and enjoy the ride! 
Rdy 2 Rmbl X_x 
 
 
Ijed: holy fucking crap, that's all I can say. Not too keen on the first part of the level but the rest... wow, what a ride! 
 
Now available in the Quake Injector!

Quaddicted has a bit of trouble at the moment, sorry. If the person who is currently mirroring lots of it is reading this, please stop and send me a mail. We can find a better way. ;) 
Oh Shit, Son. 
 
 
MFX: Damn, that was very very good as well! Best architecture of the pack, hands down. It never felt repetitive and some rooms are really really impressive! I found some other secrets off-camera including the credits map.

Boring skill 3 demo pack: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fxms66mcjz66lql/demos.zip?dl=0

Overall this pack was great. Definitely felt like Warpspasm 2 in some aspects. :-)
Some areas were really nail-bitingly hard on skill 3 and I died many times! 
Thanks For The Demos! 
And glad you liked it :) 
YOU GUYS ARE FUCKING GENIUSES ! 
I'm currently playing a second map (mfx, I think), and everything are simply FUCKING AWESOME !

Dammit, how many maps are there in this pack ?!?

The atmosphere is so strong, geez, Quake1 still beats all the "modern" games I tried up to now (especially Team Fortress 2 and Borderlands).

You guys are Gods and I'm a shit fly ! 
Where's The Nightmare Button/slipgate ? 
And WTF with the telefrag map !? I'm always at the floor level like a dwarf ! 
Yep 
Your legs were ripped off by the teleporter, hence telefragged :D

You have to avoid enemies until you can find a way to get your legs back. 
No Legs !? 
This game style sucks !

And where's the fuckin' nightmare button in the start map ? 
Legs Healing 
I've found the legs healing, but geez this is un-quake (but ok, maybe it is, I don't know since I'm just a shit fly).

So, is there a nightmare button in the start map or not !? 
 
Yes. It's located in the cave area. 
The Telefrag Destruction Sequence 
This is very "Aliens" like. But how the hell do you escape this base !?

This level is truely madness. 
Nightmare Level... 
I've found the god'dammit nightmare button, but I had to use noclip to find it.

How the hell are we supposed to find this, since the first step to locate it is in a pitch black place !? Then you escalate that long scale just to find a secret plateform, and you still need to find the secret cave which hides the button.

I shoulnd't have to use noclip to find this.

I think this is unreasonably difficult. But then what do I know, as a shit fly !? 
NM 
Is traditionally hard to find, otherwise it'd be called 'easy' L:

In other news, there are so many little bugs scattered throughout the pack, especially in my map, its not even funny. Worse, almost all are things I already fixed multiple times...

About telefragging: again, I make no apologies for chopping your legs off. 
Still Playing... 
I found the nightmare button without cheating, FWIW.

Also: i'm only halfway through the first map (120 monsters out of 256 or something!!!)

Architecture and detail is pretty great, but in that one room with 10000 wpolys, my computer finally shows its age, and i only get ~11fps. I guess i'll have to start playing doom maps now that my computer is no longer fast enough to play quake :( 
Random Tips 
"gl_texture_anisotropy 16" looks nice, reduces blurriness on distant grates and floors.

mfx's and hrim's maps have cd tracks set. I'm assuming these are meant to go with the quake soundtrack installed in id1. 
Metlslime 
11 fps on Quake1 !? Dude, what kind of crappy old hardware are you using ?

I play Quake1 on an "old" cheap Mac : late 2009 Mac mini with just 4 GB ram and a stupid video card (Apple), OS X Snow Leopard (old Mac OS). And yet, Quake1 + these huge levels are running at full 60 FPS without any troubles.

I'll probably buy a new Mac mini once Apple update its mini line (they are way overdue ! C'mon Apple !!). 
Barnak: 
I have pentium 4 2.4 Ghz with 1GB of RAM, and a Geforce FX 5900XT video card with 128 MB of RAM. It's about 12 years old at this point. 
Oh Boy ! 
Ok, this then make sene...

You're beating me : a long time ago, I was using an old Mac IIci for 11 years, before I upgraded to a G4 (lasted 4 years), then a G5 (4.5 years), then the current mini (now since 4.5 years).

I guess we are all a bunch of old farts here. 
Ouch 
The pack needs 256k of ram I'm afraid. It will run with less but the active entity count is going to grind it down at various points.

I think the 10,000 wpoly room is Hrimfaxi's - but we all have expensive areas scattered around. 
TrenchBroom 
The readme implies that all of the levels were made with TB. Is that true? 
Mine Was 
And the others were made in other editors but also with TB. 
Wow 
That is great to hear! 
Telefragging 
The whole idea was to cripple the player from the start, so that by the time they're quadrocketing Hunters and about to overload a nuclear reactor, the feel like they've struggled through insurmountable odds and achieved something momentous.

Which obligates them feeling weak and broken at the start.

True, it's not really Quake, but that's kind of the point of a mod. 
Heh Is It Just Me Or Is Ijef Trying To Outdo Warpspasm 
but in one map?

finished hrimfaxi's, maybe 75% through ijed's, comments later when I have played all. 
Ummm... 
I must have done something wrong on your map ijed!

I steamed to death the first few base monsters, then a few dogs, walked, errr... crawled up to some slipgate and hit the button and BAMMM... done with the level sitting at the intermission screen in under 2 minutes, wth?!

I'll try again later, kinda worn out after ""Ceci nest pas une pipe".

Amazing work all of you, thanks :) 
Damage 
Did you god through the lasers!?

(I hope so...) 
Ijed, Hmmm... 
Maybe? After I finished "Asteroid Fracking" I noclipped and notargetted through the rest level of the level seeing as I missed a good number of baddies :( I found a secret which had a laser protected slipgate/teleporter. I un-noclipped, hit the button, walked in and it to sent me to the intermission screen.

Then it went to your level. Does "god mode" and stuff carry across level changes?

Meh no matter, I see from comments your level is huge as well. Playin' it proper next. 
Sorry... 
...for clogging up the thread with my stupidity! I loaded up my save and sure as heck it was still using the console commands :(

Back to playin'... 
How Long To Make These Levels ? 
Guys, how long did you made these maps ? I'm just curious. 
Just Wanted To Say 
congratulations on the release! You guys are some of my favourite mappers (I've been waiting for a new Hrimfaxi map for a long time, especially) and I'm really looking forward to playing this, though it may be a while. Again congrats on what I already know is an amazing release. 
 
Haven't checked out the map yet.

How does texture filtering relate to alpha textures appearance?

(i.e. what is wrong about it without setting the texture filter.) 
Extra Question 
Is there something that prevents playing this map using DarkPlaces or FTEQW in their present incarnations or was it just untested in those engines? 
You Guys Are Geniuses! 
The Telefragged map is hilarious! And full of suspension too!

This is the best quake map ever! 
One Year It Nearly Took Us 
Awesome 
Playing through Telefragged so far, it's all is super amazing! 
Ijed 
So how does TB compare to other editors in the field of touchpad mapping? Something worth advertising for Sleepy? 
Baker 
The holes in the fence texture go from rectangular to rounded rectangles with filtering turned on - technically there's nothing wrong, it's just a different look.

Darkplaces can load all of the maps but support the fence textures, fteqw won't load telefragged.bsp (at least not out of the box.) 
Touchpad Mapping?! 
 
I Want To Thank 
ivan REBBroff once more.
Great guy he is! 
@ericw 
Ah I'll have to check it out when I get the opportunity to try this single player release. 
Touchpad 
Died many moons ago. But I was playing Quake, and L4D on one for a while.

Still using normal mice but also thumbtracks.

A cautionary tale:

#9882 posted by ijed [190.22.121.47] on 2013/11/01 16:06:15

I've got a bsp2 map + mod that's maybe a month from completion.
 
Where Are The New Models From 
are the dogs and grunts the capnubs ones or from somewhere else? 
 
capnbubs's but I felt they look very out of place in here. Also the soldier pooped his pants. 
Out Of Place? 
How? 
Hes Just Trolling 
because its a base map pack. 
 
Nah, as I said earlier in a mail or demo, I feel the visual fidelity (*buzzwordwank*) is all over the place with the addition of those models. Also I don't see the point of adding them at all. Replacing the "Quake content" should be user's choice, not a mod's (yes, come at me bro). Same reason why I always disliked sock packaging those ammo models. 
Hmm.. 
you have a point there. Peace.

Also i should thank you for breaking(?) the map when playing it last weekend. You are a pretty good betatester when it comes to such things;)
Saved my ass twice already. 
Yes... 
But I fucked up and moved the shootable button for the blaster trap where you got stuck. Now, it's possible to deactivate the trap from the other side of the lasers, which may be a progression breaker :P

Completely my fault though, thanks for pointing out the various faults.

I didn't manage to use the victim.mdl to replace the player model though. 
Posted To Mapcore 
Yay! 
Now to resolve that FSAA issue I'm having.

But I wanted to say that the Help RRP in the menu is awesome! 
Still Nothing 
On the latest quakespasm for windows it gives me the same error "Mod_LoadBrushModel: maps/locust.bsp has wrong versione number"

Any ideas? 
 
Use the Quakespasm version from the first post. 
Yes 
download the latest release from here and try again. 
Yep 
That error is that BSP2 is not supported by the engine you're using.

Some other engines do support it, but are untested and will most likely have various issues for limits not be raised to match the format.

A fun one we saw was invisible Hunters. 
Finally Made The Telefrag ! 
Yay ! This map is really difficult !

I finished the telefrag map (missing only 39 monsters) on nightmare skill, destroyed the whole base (countdown sequence) and found the exit teleport before the final explosion. Found 12/31 secrets. Found the rocket launcher secret and the basement super secret. Can I have a medail now !?

Oh well, all this in God mode and full weapons. Had to rocket-jump on several places. :/

So no medails to me I guess.

I'll have to replay to find all the suckers on that map (where the fuck were the 39 monsters I missed !?).

Some scrags and mini-baby-vores (from Quoth) would be cool on this map (I love'em.

Are there any plush scrags on the market ? I would love to have some in my bed, next to my pillows. Hmm, I guess the GF would find this weird. 
 
This map is really difficult !

in God mode 
 
AWESOME!
This pack gave me about 5 hours of quake experience and I liked every second of it!
I love you guys!

P.S.
I wish that slime thing were in place of tarbaby in original quake.
Then episode 4 would be so much better (: 
I Made A Screenshot. 
I Can Post A Screenshot Of My Dick Too 
 
 
barnak

just calm down 
DAZ STREAM INCOMING 
 
Barnak 
There's a skill above nightmare you'd enjoy: easy skill... with cheats turned off :P 
Is There A Pussy Skill ? 
The difficulty I was talking about isn't about monsters (even without cheating, nightmare isn't enough monsters for me, if there's enough ammo).

The level is difficult because of its complexity. You start the map with your legs off, and need to find your way without alerting the dogs and other suckers while you're crawling on the ground. Then, you need to find some computer hardware to activate some processes at various places of the map.

The map is a real maze, especially at the end, when you trigger the auto-destruction sequence (ijed, is the girl's voice your sister ? ;-). You have 4 minutes to find your way through the maze and get out, and the maze is changing during the count-down sequence with many new suckers on your way. Using the God mode doesn't change this.

It isn't the usual Quake1 map, which are usually pretty easy even on nightmare skill. 
C'mon, Some Ultra-nightmare Skill Inside A Nightmare, Pussies ! 
Just to add that my previous description of the telefrag map isn't a crittic. It's actually an unexpected truly awesome map. There's a high contrast between the telefrag map and the two other maps from the pack.

I'm jealous of your maping skills, ijed.

... and what about your sister ? 
In Lieu Of Demos 
Here is my stream vod http://www.twitch.tv/tddaz/b/568940906 (4 hours crits you for 9001)

My mind is a blur after all that (thx ijed ;)) but damn those were some crazy detailed maps. Had a blast going through this pack! 
Thanks! 
I posted it to ModDB as well: http://www.moddb.com/mods/rubicon-rumble-pack 
Not My Sister 
I used a voice generator and fan ir through goldwave.

At one point I had the AI talking to you throughout the entire map. Then it pissed me off. 
Awesome 
Spanish spellcheck strikes again! 
 
Still haven't played the map, but am somehow very satisfied and at peace seeing .alpha support and alpha texture support being realized.

I'm trying to avoid screen shots like the ones on moddb page. 
Oh My God. 
52932 visleafs exceeds standard limit of 8192

I'll post my thoughts on the maps later as I'm still playing them, but I just had to bring this up.

53 thousand vis leafs in locust? How long was the vis job? How long did it take for you to find every leak and patch it? Are you people insane?! 
93 Min On Ijed's Map 
craziness!

Proper comments on all maps once I play mfx's. Am I right that despite the pak containing 2 mfx maps you can onl play 1? Or is there a secret or something? 
 
There's a small credits map. 
Got It 
It's working and it's awesome! 
Otp 
and how does one get to that? 
 
I ran mfxsp20 from the console. If there's a secret door, or something, then I completely failed at finding it. 
There Is A Secret Door. 
It's small door near water at the bottom of the level, and when you try it before you finished the final fight, it gives a message along the lines of "Only when you finish your task!". 
Otp 
you lazy fuck 
...There's Water In The Start Map? 
 
Oh. 
Nevermind. 
Sorry 
mfx's level, yes. 
Thanks For The Demos 
Skacky!

Really, really appreciate that! 
Fun With The Telefrag Map End 
Just for the fun of it : I launched the auto-destruction sequence directly at the beginning of the map (duh ! using the God mode and noclip), and played the map in the dark (with holes everywhere).

It was fun to see all those anxious graunts everywhere (after the base "exploded") and earing many idiots far away, killed during the destruction process (falling into holes, etc).

Okay, I admit that my way of playing Quake is highly non-standard, but I have lots of fun with it. 
Heheh 
I was going to use Dr Who Exploding church method to destroy the base at one point... 
8-) Yeah 53000 Leafs In Locust 
orl:
6 months ago it took 5 days! But thanks to rebb developing the tools I was able to get it down to 11 hours for the released version.
So rebb is the man!! I love the job he has done with the tools!!

daz:
Thanks for playing! I haven't seen the whole video yet but I surly will.
Oh by the way! You missed the under the lift secret!!! 8-)

And all thats playing! I hope you will have fun playing these maps. 
Apocalyptic Destroyed Base 
I don't remember ever played a destroyed base like this before. Visiting the destroyed telefraged map in darkness is a pretty impressive experience, especially after all the monsters have been killed. 
MFX 
You're welcome! Watch me die over and over again. :p 
Hrimfaxi 
Five days to eleven hours? That's incredible. What changed by using rebb's tools that decreased the time but such an enormous amount? 
 
Afaik hrim just wasn't using detail-brushes at the time ( or only very few ? ), so other tools that support them should be in the same ballpark ;) 
 
Not implying that each and everything should be detail-brushes btw, it *is* possible to shoot yourself in the foot when it comes to PVS quality by turning the wrong things into detail-brushes. 
My Goodness... 
...dis_sp6 is starting to look like a box map. I'm really enjoying savouring these levels. Big thanks to all who made them possible. 
It Was The Best When... 
...on Daz's stream playing ijed's map he finally gets healed and states so bodly: "I'm gonna kill everything!" Hahaha...

He had NO idea what "everything" actually meant!!! Pure gold :) 
*boldly 
grrrr... edit function needed badly. 
Great! 
These maps have to be the most amazing Quakemaps ever did! Such immersion gameplay and tension like in Telefragged i have rarely experienced in any game ever. The blue blobbs are cool too.
Mfx is master of arcitekture, but what about the lift in your maps? The buttons for them does not always make sense, eh? Nevermind, the styling of your map is unrivalied.
Hrimfaxis is so lovely detailed overall, its crazy. So much to find and explore in these maps.


I thank you for your Hard work!

Anton 
 
Awkward lifts ruining the map are my signature. 
Just Put 
More secret under them.

Thanks for the kind words guys. 
Finished Mfx's 
and was going to put detailed comments but exhausted at the moment. So for now :

locust - says a lot when a hrimfaxi map is the 3rd best in the pack. :)

pipe - one of the best looking quake maps ever.

telefragged - exhausting but oh so brilliant. 
Telefragged Done Quick, Someone ? 
Guys, what about a Telefragged Done Quick contest ? Hehehee

And what's that Slipgate Inactive, on the start map ? After finishing the three levels, it doesn't activate for some final secret level or something ?

I suspect there's a fourth level hidden somewhere. 
Nope 
It's just an entry for a map that wasn't made because of RL. 
 
This looks incredible, I'm itching to play it but I think soonest I will have time will be tomorrow. 
On Locust 
Was I supposed to pass the cyan lasers and live? 
Major Shortcut Found 
i�d say. 
Yep 
 
And Another Thing 
Again in the locust map, there's a pile of creates that you can climb and get stuck.

I seem to remember it's in the final big elevator room.

I'll get back to you later for more details on where it is with more precision, as I intend to play the map again. 
Congrats Guys 
holy cow, maps size. and now this is REALLY huge
locust.bsp 40407kb
telefragged 47029kb

The most amazing thing in telefragged map that fence models or whatever its called 
Ummmm So Yeah. 
Gonna dl and play this soon-ish. Haven't read the thread, but have a quick question: Are there at least quadruple figures of enemies in each map?? Basically if it's not 1000+ monster count per map I'm not even going to bother unzipping it... 
Downloaded The Latest Quakespasm Release... 
And while going to the first map (Lost in August), quakespasm crashes and it says:

"Hunk_Alloc: failed on 3082832 bytes"

I'm using Windows 8.0 (and before someone says anything, no. I had no quake related problems with W8 until now.)
I tried to load the map in Darkplaces but the transparency doesn't work (purple stuff) and it's very laggy. 
 
8-(
Well that confirms to me that I need to change editor.
I'm pretty much feed up with Hammer not saving
the values I write in the fields of the entities.
I don't know how many times I have had to write the same things over and over in the entity box, targetnames, angels,etc.
Hammer keep forgetting to save the information. 8-(

Well I did change the hurt value at some point in building but it looks like I didn't check if it was saved. 
Shambled 
I don't know if it is possible to hit 4 figure monster count in my map. Maybe.

Daya, use the correct engine (the linked one) to fix transparency and add -heapsize 256000 to the commandline for it.

AKA RTFM :) 
Hrim 
Yeah, that's the ugliest bug since you have to double check every entity change.

Trenchbroom! 
4 Figure Monstercount 
I wonder if it'd crash the engine... 
Heapsize 
heapsize 256000 was not enough for me. i had to use heapsize 300000 otherwise quakespasm would keep crashing to desktop while loading telefragged. 
Okay So. 
The next map / pack that forces pixellated wankshit on the player, I'm deleting without playing. 
RE: Heapsize 
Is this with a 64 bit build (e.g. win64 build)? 64 bit builds would require slightly more memory. 
#144 
+1 
Ijed 
I got up to 937 if that helps. God knows how many kills.

There was a lot of cool stuff in that map, especially being continuously exploring (lost?), and the gameplay was a lot more fun and better balanced than Quoth stuff. However having the "continuous instant death trap" stealth start did mean that I started off dying a lot and continued by quicksaving a lot, so it felt a bit weird.

Tired now. 
When You Think About It 
ijed's map is essentially a whole Q2 unit in one BSP file, right?

Love the map but perhaps splitting it up into three or four intertwined parts would have been even better. 
I Think 
The highest I saw was 948 - but that's old data now. As mentioned, possibly elsewhere, splitting a shoggoth ups the count by 2 and opening a box by 1.

Splitting it would mean coding in level changeovers. You revisit too many places for this type of thing to be feasible. 
I Think 
The highest I saw was 948 - but that's old data now. As mentioned, possibly elsewhere, splitting a shoggoth ups the count by 2 and opening a box by 1.

Splitting it would mean coding in level changeovers. You revisit too many places for this type of thing to be feasible. 
Re: Heapsize 
yes, i use win7 64bit. 
#144 
The next map / pack that doesn't force pixellated wankshit on the player, I'm deleting without playing. 
 
As I am playing this, I feel that the Rubicon theme would mix really well with the Travail theme.

Some kind of Travail/Rubicon Hybrid in the future? 
Ijed. 
Also, you utter utter bastard. I got a fucking shoggoth trapped in the under-slime RA & MH secret. Kept bouncing at the window trying to get out, but no matter where I went, it wouldn't go back into the slime and back up to the moving platforms. I tried so many bloody times to go down and kill it and it's offspring but it was pretty much unsurvivable with the slime damage and I never got that fucking secret and I seriously hope you get anal warts ON YOUR FACE. 
 
Achivement unlocked: Tickle Shambler's udder.


Could someone give us a nice screenshot for Quaddicted? 1024x768, no hud, <300 kilobytes. 
 
anal warts ON YOUR FACE.
...
Could someone give us a nice screenshot for Quaddicted?

Get to it 
Hahah 
There's plenty of screens on ModDB but they do have HUD in them. I'm away for a few days so Sunday is probably the earliest I can provide anything.

100% kills on mine may be impossible. I suspect there's a phantom fish outside the world and rarely, the shoggoi will bounce their children through brushwork, out of the world and effectively making them unkillable.

And a note about tar boxes - if you open one then it raises the kill count by 1, if you don't then it doesn't. 
Good Stuff. 
Generally very complicated, very involving maps. Not nearly as gruelling as some other big releases. Some amazing detailing and industrial designs. I liked them overall. 
Screenshots 
I grabbed a few screenshots and put them on Imgur. Some spots I reached with noclip + notarget, so they're not from actual gameplay.

http://imgur.com/a/6Pdza

If they all suck, I can try again tomorrow :) 
Quaketastic Has Some Too 
In the screenshots folder, though they are terrible.. 
 
Wow, amazing maps, not much else to say. August took me 30 minutes, the French map 42 minutes and Slipgate a whopping 69 minutes (all on hard). I tend to prefer smaller maps but this time I found the extra length refreshing.

I only demoed the final bits of Slipgate (20 minutes perhaps?) so here are some scraps of that. I died a few times mostly due to ambushes and carelessness: https://www.dropbox.com/s/17oregpzxwiq2v8/rubmikko.zip?dl=0 
Thanks 
 
Non-stop Crashing In Telefrag 
This is wierd: yesterday when I arrive at the Pentagram's platform, the button worked OK, but I fell into a pit without dying and I had to kill myself to reload the save point, but once it loaded, I had to quit the game because real life stuff.
I try to replay the game this morning at the same pentagram spot, I step on the button and QuakeSpasm crashes with this:

"Z_Realloc: failed on location of 204800 bytes"

I tried to relaunch the game with heapsize 700000 but the exact same thing happens.

Such a shame because I'm digging the maps. 
 
That happens if you forget to launch with -zone 4096, double check that? 
On Locust 
Another illegal way to pass the cyan lasers is to get the pentagram secret nearby 
Finally Finished All 3 
I'm just amazed at the shear talent, dedication and technical skills it took to release such a map pack.

I won't go into heavy critique as the quality work of all involved, as with their usual releases, is well known here. At that point it just comes down to subjectiveness of the individuals experience. Same as with all art work.

Again, I apologize that I don't provide demo's most of the time, but I die ALOT! And I tried countless times with the previous two "map jams" doing first runs only to spend more time being frustrated by trying to provide a damned demo rather than simply enjoying the maps!!!

I super enjoyed all of them but played them spread out and telefragged was played over several sessions. I just get Quaked out...

I read the thread "When Is A SP Map "big Enough?" and at first I was like they are too big. But I simply changed "how" to play them for me to have fun with 'em.

Telefragged took me a lil' over 2 hours. Missing a whole lot of baddies and secrets(13 out of 31).

I would like to add, as my only gripe... AUTOSAVING! Grrrr... fuggin' so annoying :-P Every time in Telefragged it autosaved right where I was getting surprise attacked/killed and then it ruined my own recent quicksave in the safe spot.

Other than that, THANK YOU Mfx, ijed, Hrimfaxi and everyone esle. It was most entertaining :) 
 
Slightly off topic but what font/typeface is that in the last screenshot from Pekka? Need to put some text on some textures and it looks like it would fit.. 
Font 
Some neo-grotesk with an extended bold weight
(Eurostile, Helvetica, Univers, ...) 
NotoriousRay 
In Other Words 
You've got mail. 
 
Thanks dudes 
Found A Special Place In Ceci N'est Pas Une Pipe 
I spend a good while exploring the Pipe map by Mfx for all the sekrits. It's a great map, and I did find all the legit secrets. Still ended up 6 kills short though.

Probably the most appropriate thing to see after finding the last of them would have been a message telling me to get some sleep, but I will settle for being saluted. It's all good.

I also found something that I very much hoped would have been a secret, but wasn't. It is possibly a place the player is not intended to go to. There is no message or anything else when you get there, so I can't say. Some things look like things you aren't supposed to see, at least.

I recorded a tiny demo of me going there and walking around a bit. It was such a fiddly route that I had to settle for flubbing the first rocket jump. And well, I'm not that good at rocket jumps.

Link:

http://www.quaketastic.com/files/demos/rrp_pekka_mfxpipe_special.zip

It's recorded with protocol 666 with a recent SVN build of Quakespasm on a 64bit Linux env. I suppose only the protocol 666 bit should matter here.

Mfx might be interested in checking it out as the map author. I'm not sure why anyone else should care, unless you want to know about a place on the map that definitely does not have any secrets at all :) 
Pekka 
LOL !

Nice place, with the holes ! hehehee ! 
Correct 
it's Eurostile (AKA microgramma) bold extended. 
10/10 
Just played through Telefragged earlier today. It was super beautiful, and I'd highly recommend it to all quake lovers. The entry map is also pretty sick. Currently playing through the next map in the pack. 
Still Slowly Savoring The Gameplay 
of a well made SP quake map pack.

Currently at 189/679 in Telefragged with 2 secrets found.

I think this pack will take me 5 to 10 days to finish. 
Belated Comments 
locust - very impressive map although I think the most impressive visual area comes way too far into the map (the big room with lots of walkways and one of the key doors in the bottom corner).

Bit of a lack of progression in terms of objectives (not so much actual progression which was easy enough to work out). Gameplay was enjoyable but I wouldnt call it memorable. 
Telefragged 
well I dont know what to say really. Probably the most memorable map of the pack if not the best IMHO.

The start was an interesting experiment and I thought it worked well enough once you figured out what was going on. But you cannot work it out on first playthrough IMHO which is a design flaw I think. Some short text or a small cutscene at the start could have made it clearer.

I also thought there were a number of quite plain looking areas that kind of stood out compared to the rest of the uber detailing.

It also did become exhausting in a number of parts, mainly because of its sheer size and scale. Never enough for me to quit and come back to later but enough for me to pause the game every now and then.

That's the nitpicking. The rest is fever dream brilliance IMHO. Although the map was exhausting I never found any of the particular combats grinding which is a feat in a map with a monster count that almost reaches 4 figures!

Visually, the majority is amazingly detailed and cohesive and the end sequence destruction is also memorably pulled off.

But above all else, like in Warpspasm, there was a feeling of prevailing evil/dread throughout the entire map, which IMHO is a very difficult thing to pull off, let alone at this scale. It kind of reminded me of the first time through Zerstoerer. 
Pipe 
IMHO this is one of the best looking quake maps ever produced, the architecture and texturing is very complimentary of each other, if not always original. Mfx's improvement in the bisual department has been exponential!

Some of the combat setups were a little odd but on the whole, gameplay was very satisfying.

My favorite of the pack, the visuals get it over the line compared to telefragged. 
Oops 
that should be visual not bisual. 
Lol! 
Freudian slip?
Thanks for your kind, warm words, brother. 
Yes 
Thanks to all who've taken the time to give such considered feedback. 
Praises And Small Nitpicks 
I really like this pack. I love the attention to detail (including effects like the lightly waving flags) and the new monsters and new monster behaviors are on the whole great. I've gotten a lot of enjoyment out of the parts I've played, and there's a still a fair amount to go.

Wanting to nitpick a little, I find a bit odd you can climb ladders with your back turned to them. I'm not suggesting the scripting should be reworked to try to eliminate this, but it's a diverting image escecially if you fire a weapon at the same time. (I'm not even sure if it works consistently with every ladder, but it definitely does with some.)

I also have a comment on the early GL secret in Locust in August. I try to be vague so as not to spoil it for my fellow secret-hunting aficionados. It appeared the intended way to reach it involved finding the button, but I dropped down from above instead and found the GL before the button. How the button worked from the other side was confusing for a few moments.

I regret not recording any demos of my first explorations. I should get into the habit of doing that to give the authors the chance to watch some really really boring Quaking :) (Seriously, though, I understand it's good feedback and I intend rectify my lazy habits in the future.) 
Locust In August 
Great level, never got lost. Died in the slime once, player should be able to get out of there. Nothing else to comply actually, who am i?
Crazy detailing all over. Awesome.
Here is a Demo.
Thank you for your hard work, now to the other maps.. 
8-) 
Thank you Oldone.
Enjoy the other maps! 
AWESOME! 
 
The Long Drop Secret 
Can anyone tell me how to get that "long drop secret"? I tried to activate it for 15 minutes but couldn't find the trigger. I'm so frustrated. 
I Can't Play The Third Map 
I've played Locust and Telefragged. Quake Injector shows me two other maps named "Mfxsp19" and "Mfxsp20". However, when I try to start them, I'm spawn at the start up region instead. How do I play them if they are actually playable? 
Weird 
but try getting to mfx's map from the start map, it's on the top floor. Mfxsp20 is a secret map. 
The Third Map 
I found the entrance, through the exhaust pipe. Never mind.

It tells me that I'm the last hope of the mankind, but they still send me with an axe and a single barrel shotgun... Come on world! I'm your LAST HOPE! 
Secret Map? 
Where do I find it?? :) 
Mfxsp20, WTF !? 
When I try to launch the mfxsp20 "secret" map from the console, the map launches and return to the console after just one second, with this message :

"951 efrags exceeds standard limit of 640"

WTF !? 
Okay, Found It... 
I was using the command -quoth at the start. Removing it gives access to the mfxsp20 map. But then this is a tiny map with just 6 idiots to kill. What gives ?

How do we have access to this "secret map" from inside the levels ? 
 
#108 
Long Drop 
Is broken I'm afraid.

If you noclip down you'll find the platform lowers in order to take you back up - this is the position it should have been from the start.

I did fix this issue, but due to Dropbox shenanigans the fix was lost, along witha few others for HOMs when looking through walkways :[ 
@Barnak 
Dude, if you don�t get it, just shut up and stop shitting here.
You probably can�t imagine what effort it took to make these maps.
I feel sorry for you.

@others
Yes the credits level is only meant to be accessed through mfxsp19. I had plans to make it accessible through the start map, but my poor knowledge of setting it up correctly forbid that.
Maybe next time. 
MFX 
mfx, I apologize to have irritated you. Really, it wasn't my intention.

You're a God, and I'm just a shit fly. 
Okay So More Indepth Comments Maybe. 
MFX - stunning. Replayed to get 20/23 secrets. The secrets in themselves were a work of art, except the drop-thru-the-fan one which was counterintuitive. The layout, design complexity and detailing in this map is astonishing. So luxuriously INDUSTRIAL, but with enough variety and cleaner areas to be comprehensible. Gameplay is generally great, the flame enforcers are annoying but otherwise it was mostly smooth and a good challenge. The GK room being a bit harsh maybe. A full arsenal of weaponry was rather welcome (including the very cool early GL secret). 
Thanks Shambler 
thats nice to read:)
You�re right, and everybody else who is complaining about the SNG secret.
That button is hidden where nobody dares to watch:)
Did anybody found the way to circumvent the SK route? It is possible to bypass the door, which makes the map even harder:) 
Another One... 
Hrim: Excellent map. A bit haphazard compared to MFX but still good. Once again detailing is great if not as refined. Some of the designs are great, some are a bit blander - but the outdoor scene you encounter first and penultimately, brilliant, I want to marry it it's that good! In fact the whole finishing design is good. The complexity of the layout is once again great. Gameplay generally good too, plenty of nice encounters and well-balanced overall....if you're careful. I only got 13/19 secrets this time tho. 
Last One.... 
Ijed: Absolutely ridiculous, yet very good indeed. Less of a map or even an episode, more of an experience. Good designs but less refined / consistent than the other maps BUT somehow more atmospheric and gripping for this. The slightly chaotic nature gives it a disorientating Quake / Zer feel that works well. Some bits are a lot cooler than others, maybe some of the bits could have been trimmed down, but then again it's OTT nature is part of the charm. The gameplay is similar, slightly more random and chaotic in places, and exciting because of that. Thankfully a lot less gruelling than Warp, in fact surprisingly fun for it's size. Some of the setpieces are rather tasty, and the start was actually pretty fun the 2nd time around. I got 21/31 secrets, some of them were great, getting 3 Quads in a row around the slime pistons was fun. The early GL is the broken long drop, right? 
Finally. 
The additions n stuff:

Nail Enforcer - slightly too sci-fi-ish but a quality model and a good addition to the arsenal.

Floyd - slightly silly but I can't help but love this guy. Good fun especially dotted around silently.

Flame Enforcer - fuck off.

Z-Aware Ogre - at least it's differentiated from normal Ogres. Fine.

Chainsaw Ogre - basically a Fiend, fair enough. I don't like the animation so much.

Hunter - very high quality model and great fun to fight in various ways. Again a bit too sci-fi for Quake.

New effects: Smoke, steam, particles, destructible cladding, sparks, glass - all great and used really well in the maps.

Lasers that damage you just a little bit: Very sensible.

Auto-saving: Even more sensible, really useful in immersive maps this big where it's all too easy to forget about saving. The very small risk of being auto-saved on 1% health is definitely overriden by the larger risk of getting 200 monsters in and having forgotten to save. 
Thanks For All That 
And yes, long drop is Donald Ducked. 
Hoy 
And the spawn? 
Forgot Teh Spawn. 
Not sure how as I ended up spawning/killing 350 of them...

Spawn boxes: cool, characterful, good fun.

Nu Mega-Spawn: good, well done, kinda ominous but fair to fight.

Nu Spawn: Easier to kill? Works well. I sometimes forget the damage is the same and casually shoot one next to me, doh. 
Forgot Teh Non-linearity Too. 
Bloody excellent in this pack...

<Shambler> holy fuck
<Shambler> the big outside area with the pistons.....i never even visited there on the 2nd play through
<onetruepurple> okay then
<onetruepurple> how did you manage to skip a huge outside area?
<Shambler> no idea
<Shambler> i had a look, thought "oh yeah i remember that", went back inside and went another route 
Further: 
<Shambler> otp: up to 25
<onetruepurple> noice
<Shambler> i think that's the best i can do
<Shambler> there should be *something* in the floating crate room but i can't see what
<Shambler> there might be something that opens after you kill the reactor
<Shambler> although you don't need to do so to exit
<Shambler> someone should do a "least kills" route, i bet you only need 1/3 - 1/2 to get through 
Yes The Non Linearity Is A Huge Plus In Levels This Size 
 
Yup 
"Only" about 500 kills are necessary. 
Floating Crate 
Theres only the MH secret there.

That whole area is me failing to fix func_water properly - the reason behind the exploding button.

Oh well. 
The Epitome Of Quake Mapping? 
How can one describe the unimaginable work, playtesting, optimizing and dedication that went into this project? The sheer amount of fine tuning that needed to be done? Each time I play I find small details I never noticed before. The intense scale of each map far exceeds anything I could have ever dreamt of seeing in Quake, but that just goes to show just how far Quake has come. Far down the road, a decade from now if the Quake community still exists, we are going to continue to look back at this project for inspiration, motivation, and admire the prodigious effort that was required to bring this behemoth to life. It even leads me to believe that I have a theory that you guys might truly be insane, in the best way possible.

As I'm sure you can understand, I didn't record any demos while playing this. I knew before hand that was a huge release, and I wanted to take my time with each map, look at everything there is to see, immerse myself in the enviornment, and play at my usual "slower than the average player" pace. I'm speaking on behalf of every map in this pack. Everything just screams quality. The lightning sets the mood of a dark industrial place. The monsters provide an interesting combination of futuristic and offbeat, from the enforcers riding on hover-discs to ogres wielding two bloodied chainsaws, and oversized tarbaby's that split into smaller ones from being damaged. These monsters don't necessarily fit with the theme, and yet at the same time, they do.

The actual architecture of each map is nothing short of a magnum opus. It's huge, its detailed, its complicated, its mind boggling. It's even somewhat discouraging, as I gaze at each map inside and out, I know full well I could probably never pull off something this sophisticated, and at this magnitude. How almost each area is interconnected to another, where nothing is completely linear. How backtracking is carefully coordinated, sometimes twice or more, seeing the area you just visited change slightly. The amount of careful planning that had to go into these maps is a task I personally could not forsee myself accomplishing, that's why I feel somewhat discouraged, it's simply too good.

I know it sounds like I am gushing, and I am. Whatever small faults these maps may have, everything else about them obliterates it. You can complain about gameplay being unfair, too little health/ammo or some other flaw, but you simply cannot ignore the fact that these maps WILL go down in Quake history as some of the best, for almost every category: Brushwork, lighting, size, cleverness, original ideas, the list goes on.

I do however, have to deduct one point out of a thousand for re-binding my mousewheel keys and switching from my preferred gl_renderer. That's a huge no-no.

But what else is there to say? If huge maps are not your cup of tea, download it anyway just to appreciate the intense amount of legwork put into this project, because I get a strong feeling nothing is going to ever come close to something like this again, but I am willing to be proven wrong.

My final score: 999/1000 
I Agree Mostly 
Not to diminish the efforts of everyone else, but this map pack is outstanding in every regard. I know and appreciate that almost every map that has been released in the last years has been a lot of work and a cause for many frustrations for its author. I know that working with Quake and its tools can be a pain in the ass.

But the amount of blood, sweat and tears that must have gone into these maps is simply amazing. There are few mappers who pour this much work into their maps, and who reach the level of perfectionism as hrimfaxi, ijed, and mfx have. I just find myself blown away by this aspect the most. Goddammit, I know how hard it is to motivate oneself to keep working on a large project over the course of months and years, and that you guys have seen this through to the end is just fucking great.

But for the record, I disagree with Orl on one point: I don't think that this is the pinnacle of Quake mapping. There have been releases in the past where people have said the same thing. I'm sure that one fine day in the future, some crazy fuck gets an idea in their head for an even crazier project, and if they're persistent and lucky, they'll even finish it. But I agree that it will be hard to top this one. 
Thanks Guys 
crazier project -> Ok! 
Well. 
It says something about this pack that I've replayed it in the last weekend, then replayed Telefragged AGAIN to get moar secrets then watched Daz play the damn thing too.

Like Warp I think this pack is more significant and memorable than first appearances suggest - although unlike Warp it's fun enough to play repeatedly and/or continuously. At first it's easy to get overwhelmed with the sheer size of it, whilst on replays (/watching the custom Derping) some of the subtleties come out.

Such as: The sheer interconnectiveness and non-linearity. Making maps this large is one thing, but making them this connected it really impressive. The spawn boxes, well placed to spawn more spawn or get hit in combat, very fun. The amount of secrets. Some of the evile and gothic touchs in ijeds map, which sometimes seem random but enhance that atmosphere and quake style (like the RL room and the screens on the wall there). The use of dog ambushes combined with heavier enemy combined with early Rocket Launchers... Making good challenges out of standard quake enemies without relying on hordes...

P.S. Ijed: In the big outside pistony area, can you get the YA without an RJ? Also are there any secrets in the two outside train areas?? 
Thanks Bler 
It's good to know the work is appreciated. And where things need to be tightened up.

Piston Area: yes, there are in fact four secrets to get there, all of which involve climbing up a single route - the further you get along it the better the secret you get. Secret Hint: Jump on top of the lowest piston to start with, then keep looking around. 
Piston. 
I got the MH, YA, and Quad...hmph. 
And The Ward Of Rebirth Is On That Same Route 
 
Yup That Too... 
Still can't see how to get YA without RJ... 
SPOILERS! 
Lowest piston, on to roof of tunnel, grab MH, double back, jump across onto pipe, then on top of large crate and then to roof to get YA, then climb ladder and jump from roof on to beam trims. Jump between trims until the end, then jump across and grab ladder on vertical beam leading up to roof of lift building. From there, jump across to rock spire and then onto the tallest piston for Quad and Hunter Party. 
Ah. 
That route is marginally less useful if one has already rocket-jumped to the quad itself and thus got the Hunter out of that crate... 
There Are No 
RJ only secrets in the map, there's always a way to get there from a shotgun start as it were. 
What About The Quad Secret In One Of The 4 Slime Pit Control Rooms 
....after you've pressed the button to stop the square pillar piston things? 
Shambler 
You must use the pistons to get up there, and then press the button that stops the slimey thingy majingy. 
Time-limited Secrets! 
Bastards. I GJed up there. The RA later, I had to reload for tho. 
I Can't Handle This 
Mfx I am literally having leg cramps right now. I can't handle it. I am 10 mins into your map and it is so god damn good. AAaaa! 
Its Your Fault 
you started this.. 
Ok I Finished It Now. 
mfx I hereby declare you god-king of everything and supreme ruler of my body and soul.

Can't even remember the last time a map has impressed me this much, besides the mfx map in jam2. I think SPoGsp1 did it? Or zer1m7? Or ikspq5?

Extremely Good Shit. Continue. 
 
If even czg praises it, it must be exeptional... or, something dark and kinky is afoot! 
Idunnoeither 
 
It Truly Is Exeptional. 
But make no mistake, there will be sloppy kisses if I ever see you around here. 
 
m -> c
f -> g
x -> z

shb! wow! 
As For The Other Two Maps. 
Extremely impressive from a sheer tech/size/effort perspective.
They did not tick all my boxes as much as mfx' did, it was too easy to get lost, and at times they were rather overwhelming with the amount of choice given to me. (An absurd thing to say, I agree.)
The telefragged gimmick was hilarious, especially considering this dismembered torso can creep across the floor at 40km/h.

Overall a great release, worth playing. 
Oh I Almost Forgot 
In ijed's map, in the big room you enter after crossing the trainyard for the first time as a giblet with the moving bridge in the middle, when I returned there close to the end of the map, there was a trigger that would 100% crash the game with a stack overflow in the progs. A long chain of multi_use and multi_touch. I didn't get a dump of the console or a save, sorry. :-( 
Czg 
You mean this?

http://www.quaketastic.com/files/screen_shots/telefragcrash.jpg

That happens on easy only, as far as i know, hehehe.
Anyway, glad you liked it.

Next maps won�t be so cheap, i promise:) 
Yes That's The One. 
Yeah I play on easy what of it �_� 
See. 
Told you it was worth installing quackspasm for.

Enjoy ur sloppy kisses mfx. 
There's An Easy Skill? 
 
 
I play most games on Easy. I want to see the content.

Especially with Quake. I've killed these monsters 10,000 times with the same set of weapons. I get it. :) 
Hm 
Got to disagree. I play games for the interaction.

In a game that I know so well, like Quake, I have to put in new features to keep it interesting.

Even when there are no new features I'm always experimenting with the perfect placement and mix of enemy types to break the player from their comfort zone and make engaging play.

Not that I hate 'content' - I just see it as secondary to the reason I'm playing something in the first place. 
 
I'm primarily an environment/prop artist. The content is everything to me. :) 
 
That said, Quake combat CAN still be compelling but it takes a talented level designer to pull it off... 
Levels Are Rarely Fully Tested On Easy 
 
Uh 
Maybe there should be 'my' at the start of that... 
 
I don't really include Quake in my statements about Easy mode. It's just as easy to bind a key to "god" to get by sticky areas. :P 
I'd Count It 
As a failure of the game play design if you feel you have to do that though.

Its why demos are so useful when in beta - its tricky to 100% predict the mood of the player at any given time.

The derpier the demo (Daz reference!) the better as well. Most errors in game play design occur because a specific case wasn't considered, and a demo is great for showing you where those occur.

I find feedback on the other hand less useful, since it means theyve had time to think it over and colour it with their own impressions. It's not necessarily bad, but can distract the LD from their own vision. 
I Fully Agree With WarrenM... 
In Quake1, I much prefer the "content" (architecture, doors and mechanisms interactivity) over the monsters which are just a "condiment" in the game (at least to me).

As Warren, I already killed the monsters in all ways possible before, with hundreds of maps, and it's boring after a while, especially for an old 50 years fart like me.

The map itelf is the real star, in Quake. I love to visit and discover the map and see the beauty of its corridors, doors, floor and ceiling, mechanisms, etc. With the immersion typical of Quake, I feel like an archeologist exploring some old ruins. The "immersion" is why I love Quake1 so much, certainly NOT its stereotypical monsters, and not even the FPS gameplay.

Quake1 give me the feel that I'm really traveling in some "out of this world" place, and this is why I love Quake1 so much. I'm a "traveler", not a psychopath killing monsters just for the fun of killing. I kill them just because they're in my way.

I much prefer to kill the monsters using the mechanisms in the maps (traps, doors, bridge, etc...). That's where the fun is.


But what do I know, since I'm just a shit fly player, and you mappers are Gods !? 
Same. 
 
I'll Never Get Tired Of Killing Ogres 
 
Part Of The Content 
Is where the monsters are placed in the map. Otherwise I'd just make boxes with enemies in them.

So the ogre up on the ledge for Sleep to kill could be covered by a second ogre on another ledge, whose grenade lands in just the right place to mess the player up if they try and snipe the first ogre.

If the player kills the second Ogre, then its death wakes up the third Ogre, who is waiting round the corner at the top of the stairs. He has LOS on a pack of dogs, who also join the fun as he toddles out onto the ledge to throw more grenades at the player. 
TBH. 
Same old monsters doesn't necessarily apply to these maps where you've got Hunters supported by nail enforcers or a chain reaction of spawn boxes or a triple consecutive Quad run.

Then again I quite like being a psychopath killing monsters just for the fun of travelling in some "out of this world" place... 
Mapping 
Entity definitions and map sources would be nice 
Ok 
When I get round to it.. 
I'm Completely Lost In MFX's Map 
Got the last(?) circuit board thingy but got no idea where to take it. 
A Bit More Precise Please 
but you�ll find it i�m sure. 
As We Speak 
RRP DevKit is uploaded to Quaketastic, get it here:

RRPDevKit(10megs)(7z)

Could a mod update the newspost, please?
Thanks in advance! 
I Did Find It 
Right under my nose :P 
Devkit Link Added To News Post 
 
Thanks! 
 
Thanks 
For the upload, and the shove. 
I've Tested This Bloody Thing 
And I've never seen or heard of nyarchon.qc before!? 
Also There's No .fgd Included 
 
Nyarchon 
Was going to be a boss, in the nyarchon secret as a cameo and later in a hidden level.

RL.

No fgd? Bugger.

http://www.quaketastic.com/files/misc/rrp.fgd 
Awesome Maps! 
I dont want to lose much of words, but thanks to the makers!
The start map alone is one of the sexiest i�ve seen in
a while.
Not to speak of the actual maps, its all been said.
Thank you very much Ijed, Hrimfaxi and Mfx! 
Cant Get It To Run At All... I Get This Error 
-heapsize And -zone? 
3. Launch the engine with the command line:
-game rrp -heapsize 256000 -zone 4096 
And 
Be sure to use the engine linked at the top of this page :) 
Command Line Stuff Worked A Treat. 
 
 
Great map set! 
Awersum 
i've finally played through all the amazing levels. and i can tell this is the most powerful quake stuff i've ever seen im my life. all 3 authors are geniuses. smooth gameplay, challenge, atmosphere, what else one needs when diving into rubicon?

here's the track that'd add to all this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImZrofSuEUc 
Thanks Vondur 
Wish I'd had that track when mapping and coding...

(Go map) 
Finally Managed To Play It 
No idea why I put off playing it for so long. Truly a great experience. Huge, detailed and polished levels, cool new enemies, props and map functions. Huge industrial style boner (Tetsuo?). Another highlight in the history of Q1SP, imo.

I felt like the slime texture could have used some upscaling on the larger pools - it doesn't look quite right next to the large-scale architecture around. I had some fairly poor performance in Telefragged, partially because I was streaming, but also because of some ijedism going on in the map. Bit of a shame. In a way, the map seems to be continuation or redefinition of Warpspasm on a more technically-refined level, well, except for the framerate...
The stealth part of the gameplay was a nice touch, thankfully not overused, although the mech bit got a little frustrating after a while. Funny that the moving speed doesn't change, not even to walking pace. I imagined the player crawling with arms moving super-fast. :D

I could imagine many people got lost in the spawling levels. Personally, I never really felt lost, although at times I wasn't entirely sure where to go for a moment. Occasionally, I deliberately walkled back from where I came to get some items I had left behind, but always found the way to proceed eventually.

Secrets overkill! Found many, some of which are cool, others barely qualify as secrets in my book. Got to the signature room and the credits level, too.

Anyway, impressive work, guys!

Demos 
 
A highlight for sure, no doubt about that, but what I meant to say is milestone. 
Thanks! 
Shame about the framerate thing in my map - I can't remember other complaints of same apart from when using a bad engine, so the only thing that occurs is 'heapsize' or 'hardware' :(

I wouldn't agree that its Warpspasm... its just I released so few levels that my trademarks seem more pronounced. Although this is the second time I've ripped off Rubicon :>

Watching demos... 
 
Just out of curiosity, what's your CPU/GPU, negke? 
Haha 
I thought I'd been away too long!

playdemo rrp_negke1
playdemo rpp_negke1 
Whoo Lots Of Bugs :( 
 
Thanks! 
It's been a long time since I last was in the RRP, so thanks for the demos negke!
You really can find bugs and texture misalignment. 8-)

Thanks for playing! 
Thx For Demos! 
 
Eric 
Phenom 9600 Quadcore 2.3 / Geforce GTX 460 on Win7 64bit 
Just A Heads Up 
When playing telefragged with Quakespasm 0.90.1, you will be greeted with the console error message of not enough edicts (max_edicts 2048)

To alleviate this, just type in the console max_edicts 4096 and the map will load fine. My only question is, why was the edicts amount reduced by default? 
 
11 bits allocated by the netcode for a packet telling other clients about an edict = 2048 is the highest possible number. Raising many limits in Quake requires modifying the netcode, making it backwards incompatible, but metlslime went ahead and just raised all of them at once and created PROTOCOL_FITZQUAKE. 
 
and, to answer your question, it lets you know the map wouldn't work in other engines without raised limits. it's on the user to make the choice to silence the warning.

also, it's a warning, not an error, right? the map loads fine in Fitz/Spasm either way. 
 
sounds are 13bit. baselines are 16. 'fast' entity updates are 16.
vanilla quakeworld's deltas are 9bit, but that's irrelevant around these parts.

'max_edicts' (actual cvar name is of course different in different engines, yay standards!) is a serverside limit, and may have lingered from older configs. exceeding it will kill the server, necessitating increasing the limit and restarting the map or whatever. 
 
8192 is the max edicts that protocol 15 can handle (due to sounds) 
 
Finally got to play through MFX's map. After playing this and ijed's map, I have to say that the quality of gameplay in these maps absolutely obliterates that of any first person shooter released in the past 10-maybe 15 years. Atmospherically it's a post-apocalyptic nightmare set in another dimension where plasma and laser weaponry is openly utilized but whoever built these places can't seem to find a better power alternative than steam.

Exploration reminded me a lot of Half Life and Alien vs Predator 2 with all of the ducts leading to various places. There's plenty of health and the interconnectedness of the maps is simply breathtaking. It's amazing to see real art being made with this game engine amidst the sea of boring childish games that pander to the lowest common denominator and hold the players hand. 
 
My only question is, why was the edicts amount reduced by default?

It was actually increased from the default, which was something like 600.

One should also be cautious about just blindly increasing limits like this. The size of an individual edict in Quake is variable, and with a high enough max_edicts you can easily blow through your entire heapsize. 
 
Edicts are variable size? I thought they all had the same members. What varies? 
 
by variable size, he means at load time rather than mid-game.
the number of fields allocated is mod-dependant, and bloatware crap like xonotic can easily have 2k fields or whatever. 
#285 FTW \m/ 
 
Quakeisdead 
Thanks.

If anything can bring me back to Quake it's posts like that.

Glad you enjoyed it. 
I'm With Quakeisdead 
that post brought the pack to my attention and i just started playing it a couple of days ago. i'm still in the middle of it; everything about it is so startlingly immersive that i have to step away from it to gather myself, catch my breath, and then i just want to go right back to it. fantastic stuff. 
 
After playing ijeds map, I think there's pros and cons of these massive maps and using bsp2. The size, detail, structures, design is all fantastic.

However, I found myself lost a bit. On two occasions I just had no idea at all where I was supposed to be going, and when it's this non-linear and large, that's a bad thing. I ended up having to noclip around looking for monsters, then backtracking with notarget to figure out where I was supposed to have reached them. On both occasions they were just random areas in a location I'd already been through. I don't know how I was supposed to have known to go back there to this small room that no longer has a closed door, without any indications.

It's okay in modern games, because there's always a pointer or waypoints, but Quake has nothing like that so it still needs some linearity so you don't get completely lost. The same happened at the end after the earthquake, once I got to the top of the lift I took a wrong turn and spent the first 3mins wandering aimlesslesly. Noclipped and realised what I'd missed, by then only had 1.5mins to complete the map and it was pretty much impossible. I then get stuck with it saying elevator is now accessible. I eventually noclipped to find what elevator I think it was talking about, but the route was blocked anyway, I can only assume because I hadn't killed enough monsters but I no longer had time left. Oh yeah, I love timers.

So I ragequit realising I'd just spent 80mins playtime and now can't finish it. Where's the actual end? Is it upwards? I'll at least noclip to that so I can continue to mfx's map tomorrow.

But yeah it was an awesome map apart from getting lost. 
I Disagree 
getting lost in a map like ijed's is part of the experience.

I mean that seriously. 
Gfx.wad Error 
So I thought I would give this pack a go. I have downloaded the engine, quakespasm-r1261, run it and got this error. I copied over the gfx.wad from the old Quake folder but still get the same error. Is there a particular directory structure that I need to follow, (no, I haven't read all the Readme files or Googled it or asked my mum). 
 
You still need the usual pak0.pak and pak1.pak files in id1... is that your issue?

(Also at this point IMO you should just use the most recent Quakespasm release, although that's almost certainly not related to your current problem.) 
 
Yeah, I'd recommend the most recent Quakespasm now. The beta version that was required when RRP came out was just an early beta of QS 0.90.0.

The directory structure should be like:
- quakespasm.exe
- [other quakespasm dll's, etc.]
- id1/pak0,1.pak
- rrp/pak0.pak 
Also, If Skipping The Readme 
making a shortcut with "-game rrp -heapsize 256000 -zone 4096" is critical :) 
 
Not really sure? I have the Quakespasm folder with the engine, various dlls and the gfx. I also have the rrp game folder in there. When I run QS it immediately crashes with the gfx error.

OK, just also dropped the ID1 folder in there and it now loads - thanks. 
 
Nitin; yeah most people seemed to like non-linearity and didn't mind exploring quite a bit.

Played mfx's map the next day, damn that's awesome. One of the best base maps ever. I'd suck dick for more of this! Maybe not quite, but levels of this quality are quite special.

I must admit, I couldn't find the last data chip. Got the obvious one in the trapped area, got the one through the hole in the floor, couldn't find the other. Noclipped for about 20mins looking everywhere but just couldn't spot it. Everything was dead so I couldn't go by monsters roaming around. In the end I just noclipped up the lift, I probably didn't miss much anyway, just a button working.

I also played in DP, worked pretty well, except DP not saving the resolution and having to change that everytime I play. 
Heya 
Thx man, we had a blast making all that. Glad you liked it!

As for the last keycard, i know exactly where it hides. It is at the giant vent you see from the starting point. High up there. 
After Reading Comprehension Set In 
i must admit you may have encountered a bug. That other card than the ones you described is easy to find/placed in your path..

These maps were never tested in DP, so dont assume they work there.

My heart bleeds a bit now.. 
Still. 
Promise another map like that and flop your wang out............... 
 
*gets lube*

Yeah it might have been a bug, I'm did some more flying around near the start but no sign of it, so DP probably broke it. I wonder if DP caused issues in ijeds as well. 
The Lost 
While the main route is lineal, it does loop over itself a fair few times. I tried to limit the potential for wandering off the track as much as possible, but in a couple of areas it was pretty bad.

That said, with a map this size somebody is always going to get lost unless you use lock gates to close off all incorrect areas or just avoid looping completely.

Many parts used the 'Follow the Enemy Road' tactic to lure the player forwards, but still kept the potential for them to fall off a balcony and end up wandering around for a while to get back up.

I let this one get out of hand in terms of scale, but overall it seems you funcers liked it :) 
It Was Insanely Brilliant IMO 
 
Ijed 
So I am just starting your map, and I appear to be not at normal eye-level. I get to the first weapon (SSG) and can't pick it up. I approach the first grunt, and I have no weapon and he kills me with one shot.

I am not getting very far. I seem to have forgotten everything I might have known. Where am I, why am I here... 
Mike. 
You had your legs blown off in a tragic telefragging accident. You need to carefully ooze your way through the map to find suitably restorative health.

Kinda annoying but it is well worth persisting with that bit for the main map!! 
Oh, Bugger It Shanbler... 
Now, having conversed with you before, and followed your posts since many a long year, I honestly don't know whether this is a helpful hint or a total wind-up. Oh, shit!

(OK, I admit it. I did actually start the map again and tried to sneak past the grunts, but still got nowhere)

Mind you, I also just noticed 400+ monsters and 30 secrets on Easy. I think retirement beckons. 
LOL. 
Truth is stranger than fiction in this case!

Despite the monster count it really isn't as much of a gruelling slog as you'd think. Just....big....very big. And very good. 
The Start 
Of the map is a stealth section where you have to crawl around until you can find a way to heal yourself.

A few more hand-holdy messages at the start would have helped a lot... 
 
Kinda annoying but it is well worth persisting with that bit for the main map!!

Reading this is quite sad considering how this was the initial driving concept behind the map... 
BTW Mike. 
You might think you know what "lost" means before playing this map...

...you don't... 
Heh 
Well, the telefragging bit is just the lowest part of the ladder.

In most Quake maps you go from medium to high power - more weapons, more DPS, better armour, powerup inclusions where you become godlike for a brief period.

I wanted the player to go from powerless to almost constant godlike slaughter. This is why you're literally crippled at the start and having a constant quadrun against the clock towards the end. 
Ijed 
Nice analysis, I hadn't really thought of it so clearly. 
I Hid The Concept 
In a stupidly big map :) 
Praise The Lord... 
... I have seen the Light and I have been healed 
AXE THEM ALL 
 
Mike Is Doing A 100% Axe Run, Blind?? 
SICK DUDE. DEMO THAT SHIT. 
Telefragged On Easy Skill 
As far as I know, the map is almost certain to crash
at a certain point (mentioned in the thread), so Mike,
please be careful and maybe try a different skill. 
I've Got Some Time Off Coming Up 
So may patch that soon, as well as a few other annoying little issues. 
That Would Be Great! 
Some stuff I haven't seen metioned:
Infused secret does not seem to increase the counter of found secrets. Several armour secrets seem to only be triggered if you can actually pick the amour up. 
Nearly Done 
Anyone got a hotfix they want included? 
Hotfix The Missing Legs At The Start Of Telefragged. 
Can't think of anything else to be honest.... 
Turn Off Telefragged Mode? 
 
Nah Not Really. 
 
Locust On August Post-release Test 
Dear Hrimfaxi,

I have tested your submission for the pack back in August.
In case you are interested, I will record demos and send them to you along with screenshots. I have already made a table of contents for the test results.

I think it might help to maintain and reinforce Rubicon Rumble Pack's reputation as a candidate for 'the epitome of Quake mapping(?)', to quote Orl.
Especially if ijed is going to patch the easy skill bug on his map, 'as well as a few other annoying little issues'. 
I Mean... 
if you are willing to fix some issues, it might help consolidate the recognition of the maps as not only
the possible pinnacle of base themed mapping so far,
but as a superb quality release too. 
I Should 
Really upload that D: 
 
The dropbox link in the first post is 404, could a mod delete the link?

Also ijed, this is just a nitpick but the readme mentions the Quakespasm prerelease version that was needed when RRP came out, should we update it in the patch to just say "quakespasm 0.90.0 or later, available at http://quakespasm.sourceforge.net/download.htm "? 
Ijed 
Please do. I wanted to make an all-marked secrets demo.

A crash-free easy skill should be a valuable asset.

I considered testing Telefragged too, but as SDA's qdqstats didn't work in the pack because of the different progs.dat (I guess) and easy skill was more or less broken, I gave up with regards to the seemingly unavoidable confrontation with an incredibly high number of monsters on either normal on hard.

All in all, the patch will be most welcome for a variety of reasons. 
Yes, May Apologies 
I've been busy with other stuff and it got forgotten - but the corrected version is built. I added dirt mapping as well just for the hell of it. 
Nice. 
Ijed, thank you for taking the time and making the effort.

I forgot to mention one thing. I have found some properties of the qdqstats tool extremely useful for testing maps with the id1 progs.dat - such as genocide (killing every living monster at any time), making triggers visible, toggling trigger and counter etc. info - bound to impulses. Unfortunately each progs.dat seems to need its own tool thus the existence of hipstats and doestats etc.

I sorely missed such a tool during my test on Locust.

In my opinion, if it is possible it would greatly help the work of testers to have a tool for any map with any progs.dat that enables features listed above. All the more so in the case of extremely big maps featuring very complex level design, changing scenery and ever increasing monstercounts, such as the ones in this pack. 
I'll See If I Can Add It 
Do you have a link to the uncompiled src?

If not it should still be trivial to add - the src of RRP is released. 
Parubaru 
You are welcome to mail me your demos and comments.
I don't know when I will get time to fix the map (know some stuff myself that could need fixin) but I will look at it!
Thanks 
Testing 
@Hrimfaxi: ok, I'll probably start tomorrow.

@ijed: was your post a response to mine?

In that case I have to admit I don't really know what source means. So it's not clear to me what should or could be done with it and how. 
Yes 
I can include new qc script for qdqstats, I just need to know where to find the source code, so that I can merge it with my own.

Looking at QDQ pages I can see plenty of places to get a progs.dat but couldn't find the source. 
Sorry, I Don't Have The Source For Qdqstats. 
Well, that would be great if you could add new qc script.

Would it work only for RRP if I understand well?

I ask because even if you would be kind enough to do it I cannot promise I'll actually go ahead and test all the maps. Although it would still be awesome for my upcoming repeat on Locust.

Not sure if the qdqstats source is available. Maybe you (or I can do it if you wish) could ask on the SDA forum or contact Mr. Nolan Pflug aka 'Radix' himself. Updates have been few and far between on the Quake site so it may take while to receive the source.

I can perfectly understand if you come to the conclusion it's much ado about nothing, but I appreciate your willingness to help work on an already tested and released map pack. 
Sorry, I Don't Have The Source For Qdqstats. 
Well, that would be great if you could add new qc script.

Would it work only for RRP if I understand well?

I ask because even if you would be kind enough to do it I cannot promise I'll actually go ahead and test all the maps. Although it would still be awesome for my upcoming repeat on Locust.

Not sure if the qdqstats source is available. Maybe you (or I can do it if you wish) could ask on the SDA forum or contact Mr. Nolan Pflug aka 'Radix' himself. Updates have been few and far between on the Quake site so it may take while to receive the source.

I can perfectly understand if you come to the conclusion it's much ado about nothing, but I appreciate your willingness to help work on an already tested and released map pack. 
It'd Only Work 
For RRP although you could use RRP to run other maps, I think some ammo would fall out because RRP corrected the ammo offset (breaking it for all id1 content...).

I suspect that exposing the details of my map would show where the bugs are - it possible for the tarbaby splits to sometimes throw one out of the world and not delete itself when that happens 100% of the time.

I've got the fixed map on my office machine so will repack it during the week, including the qdq code if it is available. 
Qdqststs Source Is Not Public 
Because it has some anti cheating features. That's hardly relevant these days so maybe asking Nolan is a good idea. (I had a copy at some point and maybe still do on a CD somewhere but no idea where, sorry) 
 
@mwh: thank you for the info. Somehow ensuring to hear it from SDA (ex-)staff.

By the way, love your Rogue runs. The r1m4 demos are favourites.

@ijed: skill 0 crash, long drop, infused, secret armour triggers would be my wishlist.

I forgot another thing: upon loading the maps in developer 1, I had items falling out of each map in the pack. I haven't seen negke mention it, so I began to wonder whether something is wrong at my end. Have you been aware of this issue? 
 
upon loading the maps in developer 1, I had items falling out of each map in the pack. I haven't seen negke mention it, so I began to wonder whether something is wrong at my end. Have you been aware of this issue?

Maybe a recent engine change/addition is responsible for this, iirc my map didn't have those issues at release. 
Quakespasm-0.90.0 
I just fired up mfxsp19.bsp in developer 1.
Screenshots for both win32 and win64 verisions:

http://quaketastic.com/files/screen_shots/QS.090.0-windows.jpg
http://quaketastic.com/files/screen_shots/QS.090.0-win64.jpg

They say 4 bonus items fell out the level.

At release, the required version was QS-0.85.10, but as the download links in the topic don't download anything and I couldn't find QS-0.85.10
on the Sourceforge page under the Files either, I cannot tell how the maps runs in it for me. 
Strange 
i tested with recent versions now and have even more item dropout. 
Engine Is Auto Fixing The Fix? 
 
 
Very weird, I don't recall any qs changes that could affect items dropping out. Will look into it tonight.. 
 
ok, Spirit archived the 0.85.10-r980 binaries:
https://www.quaddicted.com/files/engines/quakespasm-0.85.10-r980_windows.zip
https://www.quaddicted.com/files/engines/quakespasm-0.85.10-r980_win64.zip

But I always get 4 bonus items falling out on mfxsp19, either with those releases, or the latest qs (0.91.0), or MarkV. So, I don't think it's an engine issue? 
Same Here On QS.085.10 
@ericw: thanks for the check.

Thanks to Spirit for the archive.

I can confirm 4 bonus items falling out in both versions. 
 
If the engine says items fall out, then items fall out. It's caused by improper placement and the authors not testing the map in developer mode like they should. No engine fix necessary. 
Yep 
Sounds like it. I was just wondering because the progs recently caused similar issues on another engine. 
Negke, I Beg To Differ. 
I have run into the issue testing a map where items would fall out if the map was loaded in a QS win64 executable, but would not fall out if loaded in QS win32 executables. Both on win64 systems. I can make the screenshots if very necessary.

So it seems to me the issue if pretty fucking far from being that easy. 
 
That sounds like a pretty fucking serious engine bug and I hope you reported it to the QS team with a nice test case. 
Sorry, Not Yet. 
It might be considered no biggie if 20 shells or a quad is missing from a map.

In my point of view, the biggie is whether the issue can be considered the responsibility of the mappers and testers, or is it beyond their control to some extent.

It can be considered my responsibility to report the issue since I have never seen it mentioned, however, I did have my reason for the timing.
I apologize for the delay. 
Sorry, Not Yet. 
It might be considered no biggie if 20 shells or a quad is missing from a map.

In my point of view, the biggie is whether the issue can be considered the responsibility of the mappers and testers, or is it beyond their control to some extent.

It can be considered my responsibility to report the issue since I have never seen it mentioned, however, I did have my reason for the timing.
I apologize for the delay. 
Parabru 
Yeah, I would be interested in seeing that test case, feel free to email me directly if you prefer. no rush, of course. :-)

It could cause a missing pack of shells, but it could also make maps unbeatable.

There have already been 2 visual bugs in 64-bit QS (mdl lighting, lightmap size calculation) that are fixed / worked around now, but I never ran in to a physics difference (but it's not surprising.)
One can argue that mappers should test on 64-bit engines for compatibility, but for QS I think 64-bit should behave the same as 32-bit. 
Ericw 
I asked the mapper in question if he doesn't mind.
If he agrees, I'll send screenshots and demos by mail.

I'm willing to test all versions on Sourceforge Files page from QS.0.90.0 tomorrow on Locust.

It seems the map behaves differently in 85 than in 90 with regards
to z-fighting. Should this be the case? Namely no z-fights in 85 where I found some in 90.

Let me take this opportunity to thank you for your continuous efforts and work on Quakespasm, my engine of choice. 
 
Thanks, glad to hear it.

Namely no z-fights in 85 where I found some in 90.
Yes, this is expected. 0.85.9 had a hack to fix z-fighting, which was causing mappers to put z-fighting in their maps because QS was hiding it. It would also cause a seam to appear around secret doors. We disabled this in 0.90.0. You can re-enable it by setting "gl_zfix 1".

I'm willing to test all versions on Sourceforge Files page from QS.0.90.0 tomorrow on Locust.
I'd suggest using the latest QS version 0.91.0, unless you are looking for a regression between 0.90.0 and 0.91.0? 
 
Those darn mappers! >:-( 
 
which was causing mappers to put z-fighting in their maps

Accidentally? Or could it have any benefit so that there is a point to do it intentionally?

0.85.9 had a hack to fix z-fighting(...)QS was hiding it

This seems dangerous to me.
The maps (ab)using this feature are exposed in the later engine version.

you are looking for a regression between 0.90.0 and 0.91.0?

No, I was just curious when the differences were introduced.

In which version were the maps tested?

The topic says the required engine was 0.85.10.
All z-fightings in the maps hidden, even before the eyes of testers?

Now, in later engines, light may come onto issues the
mappers and testers might not even have dreamed about? 
Nah 
Was for something else. 
This Is Much More Comlicated Than I Thought. 
I haven't received an answer from the mapper about the item fell out issue yet.

With several demos and a couple of new screenshots for Hrimfaxi done, I decided to give Telefragged a go.

I didn't get very far yet because I have run into the following issue.

I loaded the map I think in 0.90.0 win32.
Developer 1 says 13 items fell out.
http://quaketastic.com/files/telefragged_itemfell1.jpg
I loaded the map in 090.0. win64, I believe.
This time there are 14 items dropping out.
http://quaketastic.com/files/telefragged_itemfell2.jpg
Then I decided to reload the map again.
http://quaketastic.com/files/telefragged_itemfell3.jpg
This time it's 15 items.
I honestly lost track with version I was running.

These screenshots seem to indicate it's not (only)
dependent on whether it's win32 or win64.

And I quote mfx here:

Strange
#344 posted by mfx [78.55.209.78] on 2016/01/24 22:48:06
i tested with recent versions now and have even more item dropout.
 
Thats Very Strange 
I'll do some more revisions once I get the time.

I've got the files in the cloud now so shouldn't be as bottlenecked as before. 
 
I've got the files in my butt now so shouldn't be as bottlenecked as before.

I love the web 2.0. 
Spirit 
Whatever Floats Your Boat 
I love the diciplinarian rigidity of an efficient system that adheres to pre-defined rules 2.0 
Wagh 
Dirtmapping is slooooow in this map :)

Vis took 10 minutes.

I've fixed all the b0rkage I should have done last time in the bsp along with less obvious technical issues like lack of vis blocking and gameplay logic problems (yes the pipe that blows up).

I didn't get any items dropping. Could this be a framerate issue? The mod loads all items on map load and if there's not enough memory allocated then maybe some stuff gets lost. Just a blind guess. 
Eric + Spirit 
I was thinking a patch plus a new download:

rrp_v1.1.zip
rrp_patchv1.1.zip

With it implicit that the first release was v1.0.

Both of the above would include the link to the current engine change in the readme, and the telefragged bsp, lit and map files.

Updating the devkit alone seems like overkill for just one file, even if it is a fairly complex one.

Sound good? 
Spoke Too Soon 
Now lots of item dropping 0_o 
Most Of Them Are My Fault 
But I don't get all the ones in the screenshots - those same errant 3 seem caused by something else.

Will see if I can narrow down the issue. 
Sorry 
can't release update without inclusion of additional bonus maps by Sock and Scampie


Standards are changing. 
Sock, Scampie 
You're up! 
Ijed 
Sounds great. I can test it before release if you want, just shoot me an email.

Also, I don't know if this is useful but DarkPlaces reports more items falling out in telefragged, like 24-25. I'm guessing it's due to Darkplaces' different handling of rotated bounding boxes than Fitzquake family engines, and a lot of the pickups are rotated. 
Yeah 
That was the issue I alluded to before of engine fixing the fix - I redid the ammo bsp's with their centre corrected, and DP has a gameplay fix for that as well. So I suspect it may be offsetting some ammo boxes a further 16,16 units and therefore just enough for them to drop out.

The dumb bugs are fixed and I fixed some of the vis blocking. Unfortunately there's no fix for poor layout without rebuilding large sections of the map (the main hub and conncetors) so the wpolys still get up to 10k from certain angles, possibly 11k from very specific viewpoints.

Nevertheless it's improved by a few cheesy blockers and walls scattered around to break the LOS.

A HOM also appeared which wasn't there before, but there are several offgrid errors being reported so I need to chase down the suspect brushes.

It may be that these errors didn't bother the older version of the compilers (from 2014!) but the newer ones HOM the dodgy brushwork.

I'll knock out one more compile (10mins vis, 40 light) and send it over if its not too badly broken - thanks :) 
I Badly Broke It 
Worse yet, it crashed my game of Darkest Dungeon, just when thing were going well D;

It's late, time for sleep. 
Z-fight, QS 085.10, 090.0 
If the maps have been tested my mappers and testers
in QS 085.9 or 085.10, it may be no wonder
090.0 displays several instances of z-fighting.

@ijed: I went through Telefragged in 090.0. I have made sceenshots for all the z-fights I found. May it be worth to take a look? I can send or post them if you wish.

Is the rocket launcher area supposed to be a secret area? 
I'm Testing In 91 
Since older versions become depreciated.

The Z-fights I've found in telefragged tend only to be within some door frames and with fullbright turned on. I can only think of one after the last pass, plus the shootable button in the slime (also fixed).

The rocket launcher area is supposed to be secret yes... that's odd. Must have got lost in the shuffle. 
@ijed:Telefragged Test 
The Z-fights I've found in telefragged tend only to be within some door frames

that's true

and with fullbright turned on

How do you turn on/off fullbright?
Sorry for my lack of knowledge.

I can only think of one after the last pass

could it be the stairs in the room next to the exploding pipe?

plus the shootable button in the slime (also fixed)

is the window supposed to be broken all the time?
if not, may I ask what triggers the window to be broken?

The rocket launcher area is supposed to be secret yes... that's odd. Must have got lost in the shuffle.

I got a bit confused. You do get a centerprint, but it does not have a name like all the other secrets. I have found all so I can confirm it's not included in the 31 secret count.

So in the released version you can get 29/31.

(The long drop can be triggered but was not possible to survive without cheating. The infused can also be triggered but it didn't add to the counter of found secrets.) 
@ijed Test Cont. 
You are probably well aware, but I think it's safer to mention as I haven't seen it in the thread.

After getting healed, there is a grunt next to the exploded pipe whose death seems to trigger the opening of a door. If the grunt is not killed AND you go down to the shocking secret area then you get stuck. 
 
How do you turn on/off fullbright?

I put these useful commands in my autoexec.cfg


bind "F8" "noclip"
bind "F9" "notarget"
bind "l" "toggle r_lightmap"
bind "f" "toggle r_fullbright"
bind "b" "toggle r_showbboxes"

You may want to bind to different keys (for example, my notarget over writes quickload).

The toggle commands can also be entered directly in the console.

r_fullbright 1
r_fullbright 0 
Parubaru 
To fill in the history about the Z-fighting thing: Yeah, just before RRP was released, the pack was tested in QS 0.85.10, which was hiding z-fighting, so that's why the problem wasn't caught in testing.

The way the timing worked out is a bit unfortunate; we disabled the z-fighting hiding in QS after RRP came out. QS 0.85.10 was never released as stable version of Quakespasm, the stable release was 0.90.0, which had the hack removed (exposing z-fighting). 
 
@Rick: thank you.
Yeah, F9 is my favorite key.

@ericw: thank you for the explanation.
It certainly helps to explain things.

I have sent the win32-win64 stuff with permission.

@Hrimfaxi: I ask for you patience. Most of the stuff I remembered and tested again is recorded.
I'm still willing to give it another go. 
Patch 
Here's the longawaiteduntileveryonegotboredandwentaway patch for Telefragged:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d5em6lncudro4o1/telefragged_patch_1.01.zip?dl=0

It's BSP and LIT only, no code or other asset changes.

It believe fixes all most issues described on this thread.

Known issues:
walkmonster in wall 3712 1184 184
item fell 794 406 -26
item fell -864 1400 -650
3 missing textures

The map also sharts out a lot of walkmonster errors in runtime, but they're non critical AFAIK.

I'll fix these issues in the next build (it's late and everyone else in my house is sick).

Testing appreciated.

Eventually (next build) this should be the official patch along with a small readme referencing the correct engine, and then I'll do a new v1.01 zip to replace the original pack download. 
 
Nice. that map was so confusing at first. But fun 
Ijed, Thank You Very Much, 
I'll be aiming at making an all secrets demo. 
Let Me Do The Official Patch First! 
This is just to test, so your demo won't work on the final version once released if you record it now. 
Just Played 
Sorta new here so I am just starting to play all of these famous (or infamous) maps people have created over the years. This just made my jaw drop in awe. The sheer size, detail, concepts of it all is just mind boggling! It felt like a full fledged game at times!

-Locust had a fresh feel with its outdoor vistas and connecting pathways.

-Telefragged is something else entirely and the initial "stealth" sequence is sickeningly original. Playing on Nightmare with over 900 monsters is just chaos!

-I actually did not realize there was a third level due to the slightly obscure way to reach it (Walk into the blackness of a pipe) but this map felt like a nice closer and the amount of reusable spaces was pleasing.

Fantastic job guys, it was a blast! 
Ijed 
I still get 2 items falling out on skill1:
Bonus item fell out of level at '794.0 406.0 -26.0'
Bonus item fell out of level at '-864.0 1400.0 -650.0'

and:
walkmonster in wall at: '3712.0 1184.0 184.0'

There is a little z-fighting on the part of the stairs that explode by the pipe:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m7lw19s18ewa3l2/spasm0000.jpg?dl=0
The part of the stairs that explodes is also lit a bit differently, maybe set "_shadow" "1" on the entity so it casts shadows and will blend in with the world.

These are minor of course, maybe not worth a full recompile, but I guess items falling out are fixable with an onlyents. 
Thanks Eric 
I'll do a build next week once I get back next week. Those are the annoying errors I mentioned above - you think you've got them them all and... Splat.

Of course, if I was going to do a mfx I'd fix the wonky vertices all over the place as well..

Good hint with the stairs as well - I didn't notice that.

Bloughsburgh - glad you liked it! 
@ijed 
Just wanted to mention the alpha textures on world model thing.

Traditional Open GL skybox drawing in old engines draws skyboxes in a relatively inefficient manner by first drawing a fullscreen skybox. Result void = sky.

There are other ways to draw a skybox including only rendering sky where a sky brush is shown.

I don't think MH or Spike or any of the shader/cubemap advocates will read this thread to chime in.

But future engines written with modern rendering may have a tough or annoying time with this map.

(It was my severe mistake to do alpha masked textures on world model textures in my alpha texture mock up in oldy Mark V.)

/Ok ... I pointed this out so future generations can quote this in a Wikipedia article or something. My job is done! 
 
Btw, ijed ...

I think it great you are releasing a revised version.

(Now if someone could pester Kinn to make the 2 tweaks to make Marcher Fortress's QuakeC coop friendly ...) 
 
Baker - I agree fence textures on world are not ideal / somewhat hacky, but I don't think it poses any real problems. There are already transparent faces in the world (transparent water), so fence textures are just another face type to deal with.

Why would it interact badly with more optimized sky rendering? (reminds me to look into that / benchmark it..)

I don't think this map relies on the void appearing any particular way, Quakespasm's void is hideous (you can see the waterwarp texture, and if gamma is enabled everything turns white) 
 
I agree it isn't a big deal, but remember this!

The skybox is painted first basically fullscreen with no z-failing. So in Quakespasm with the skybox, void isn't hom -- void looks like skybox. In future, with modern rendering Rubicon Rumble would be the single map that would require special treatment.

Anyway, I don't even like post this because I feel like I'm nagging or something. And it's not a big deal to me either, but if I didn't mention this no one else would --- so I just view it as an obligation to point it out.

/Enough said, I'm not looking to nag or be a downer. Believe me! So no more from me on that. 
Well 
The void is never visible to the player, this was only used to save on adding more entities to the map. Maybe I fuckers it up somewhere and it is visible - Eric was worried about the same issue back then, and it is a fair point.

But.

Nobody is going to blame the engine coder for mapping errors (which was my argument for including this back when I made the map).

It is a hack or 'not best practise implementation'.

I'm not interested in moving all the walkways to ent now though - this would cause a cascade of new bugs to deal with.

On the other hand, coop support is a weirdly compelling idea :) 
 
I'm going to quote you on that.

User: "But Rubicon Rumble renders wrong here."

Baker: The map creator, ijed --- your lord and master, the great one, "he who can't make a map without forcing every engine author to accommodate his idea", the guy who beat Blanka in hand-to-hand combat in real-life and now represents Brazil in Street Fighter 7 -- he said 'Nobody is going to blame the engine coder for mapping errors'

User: But ... but ...

Baker: The great one, he hath spoken. 
You Forgot 
I slam my staff on the floor after each proclamation.

I should invent an ascii for that. <KLANG>

And I only beat Blanka at qouites best 2/3. He won one when he pulled that electric skin BS.

Hm. I just realised Blanka is a girls name - he should be called Blanko. 
 
FWIW, i'm pretty sure i've seen bits of grey void behind several staircases in RRP. Not sure which map it was, though. 
Yeah 
I thought I fixed them all :(

Each step (at least the fixed) isn't a block but a trapezoid beveled in 2 units on the lower rectangle.

I'll do another pass on that as well. 
About Coop 
Something fun to try ...

If you play coop, Mark V shows per player scores in coop if you press TAB. 
Just Playing These Maps Now... 
A bit late to the game I know...

Man, that telefragged map is brutal. So long. And I got so lost! 
Telefragged 
Played through it again a few days ago, this time on skill 2. What really stood out this time were the giant shoggoths. In several instances because of the game engine it looked like they were melting through the walls and protruding out, making for a very disturing and surreal FPS experience. Like I said in a previous post it reminds me a lot of AvP2 or some sort of Gigeresque nightmare. All that's missing are Droles and Vorelings bursting through the walls randomly and swarming the Iron Hand soldiers :) 
The Big Limitation 
In Quake are the models.

I know how to model but my animation is very weak.

The concept of the Iron Hand was to expand the Enforcer enemy into an entire culture. They've been reskinned a tonne and some interesting variations have been made (Rubicon, Mexx) but there's a lot of room in the Quake universe for a technology / eldritch mix.

Quake2 wasn't it. For me it was the game version of the film Virus.

Maybe one day I'll develop the concept and browbeat / bribe enough talented people to actually put it together.

I humbly link some stuff:
http://louismanning.wix.com/ijed#!blank/w6hts
http://louismanning.wix.com/ijed#!blank/w2bji

The Iron Hand version of a Drole would be a lot more terrifying.

----

For those of you waiting for the RRP patch, it is in progress, current version is 1.02. 1.03 should be the release candidate, made possible by Eric, MFX and Parabaru. 
Jokes On Me 
"been looking for black faces, i found none, but felt like KKK" 
Patch Is Ready 
Here's the patch (bsp + lit): https://www.dropbox.com/s/2lk84vnzy3oeaeo/rrp_patch103.zip?dl=0

And here's the full patched download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5xzckbmk99yz8mp/rrp_v103.zip?dl=0

All the known bugs were fixed and I added EricW's dirtmapping why not (thanks Eric). 
Transparent Textures Fix For Darkplaces 
helo, i've made a small fix that corrects transparent textures in rrp for darkplaces engine.

more info in the 1st post of my thread at quakeone.com, update from january 16th: http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-mod-releases/finished-works/11833-jakubs-rt-lights-experiment.html

direct link to the file:
http://quaketastic.com/files/misc/fixes%201.1..zip

jakub 
Great Patch 
Thanks, ijed, and jakub.

Though I personally have never noticed any bug in RRP... Guess I can never be a good tester. 
Version 1.03 Changelist 
Fixed Bugs:
HOMS through walkways at odd angles
Zfighting inside door frames
Unmarked / broken secrets
Crash on easy skill
Items falling out of level

New Stuff:
Added coop starts (untested)
Added dirtmapping
Added brushes to better divide the visleafs (performance)
Added some dynamic helper signs to aid navigation
Various miscellaneous tweaks and gameplay fixes

Thanks for the file inclusion Jakub - I'm kind of surprised it runs at all in DP, just for the custom gameplay Qc - mainly the ammo boxes. 
 
dirtmapping tends to lower the overall brightness of the map quite a lot... 
I Tried To Make 
The corners more shadowed but not affect the gameplay areas.

Some secrets are a bit darker now. 
Dirtmap Screens? 
 
Darkplaces Compatility 
i tested the whole pack and even monster level like telefragged works fine in darkplaces. i encountered noticeble fps slowdown only in the incenerator area. other parts of the level were ok.
-
there was only one bug i found. in telefragged, there is a secret quaddamage behind the glass door that can be opened by shooting the button on the floor through the crack in the nearby window pane. the button is inaccesible behind the glass under the crate at first and when the crate explodes the explosion cracks the glass so that you can shoot the red button on the floor. the crate explodes and cracks the glass, but the button doesn't work. it worked in the original version, but doesn't work in the updated version released a few weeks ago. i haven't tried the new version yet. 
Oops.. Typo 
incenerator = incinerator :-) 
Screens 
Will take some today.

As to that secret - I tested it last night and it was fine, but in Quakespasm. 
Bug 
i'll try it again with the new version when i get home. the button is already in the "pushed" state when the glass cracks so that you can't shoot it again. 
Is The Crosshair Illuminated? 
It turns off when activated (receives damage) and opens the door. 
 
"incenerator = incinerator :-) "

Thanks for that correction. I had NO idea what you were trying to say there ... 
Bug Is Dead 
i've just tested version 1.03 and button works it's supposed to. 
Thanks 
 
Shit I Forgot The Screenshots 
Coming soon :) 
 
ijed, nice! Going to have to replay with the patch soon. Sorry I copped out on playtesting 
Well 
Without your tools and engine support this pack wouldn't have happened at all :) 
Update 
Ijed 
thanks for the screenies.

Also news post updated. 
Thanks! 
 
Download Not Working ? 
When I press the download button, nothing happens. WTF !? 
 
Keep in mind Barnak is using a non-Intel Mac Mini and no modern browser is available for him to use. 
Non-Intel ? 
It's a 2010 mini, so definitely Intel. And it rocks with Snow Leopard ! 
 
32-bit Intel? 
 
I'm sure the patch will get mirrored to quaddicted or quaketastic before long.

Barnak, try using Firefox or Chrome on OSX 10.6, not Safari (which is out of date and probably unsafe). 
Way Ahead Of You, Eric 
 
 
If folks are in the business of updating the OP, you could remove the link to the special-snowflake devbuild of Quakespasm and just say "use Quakespasm version 0.90.0 or later". 
Set =1 To Download. WTF !? 
I'm able to download the pack by turning the URL from =0 to =1.

At least, make that download button to play a fart sound when you press it. 
FSAA In Quakespasm 
I'm experiencing a video problem with both versions of Rubicon3 when FSAA (antialiasing) is ON, in the latest version of Quakespasm OS X.

Rubicon3 is the only Quake pack/mod/map which is giving me video garbages when FSAA is ON.

This is sad, since FSAA is nice to my eyes, and I need to turn it OFF just to play Rubicon. Why is there a problem with FSAA and this mod ? 
 
A screenshot for the Quakespasm would be the considerate thing to do wouldn't it?

Or shall they just guess what your screen looks like ... 
Ah 
I was about to ask for a screenshot but I can reproduce it on my OSX 10.6 system, a HOM effect, but some parts of the world draw?
It affects id1 start.bsp too though, so it's not specific to RRP.
Seems to be related to the waterwarp, setting "r_oldwater 1" works around the problem here. 
Oldwater... 
What are the differences with the oldwater settings ?

And what is specific to Rubicon3's water, that is different from the other water settings, in AD for example ? Rubicon is the only Mod that gives me screen shit when FSAA is ON.

The screen shit looks like transparent walls, with a very luminous background (sky box), that blinks when I move the view around. The game becomes unplayable with this. 
 
It affects how the waving animation on the surface of liquids is drawn.. "r_oldwater 0" is the better quality way, but it can cause problems with buggy OpenGL drivers. "r_oldwater 1" is more compatible but looks more angular.

There's nothing specific about RRP, but maybe the quake.rc forces "r_oldwater 1" which triggers the bug for you. 
 
Argh, I meant "r_oldwater 0" the last time.
Anyway - assuming you are having the same issue as me, setting it to "1" should work around the issue for now. I'll see if there's any straightforward way to work around it in the engine. 
 
"new water" in fitzquake/quakespasm uses the framebuffer as a scratchpad to draw the waterwarp, then copies that into a texture, then draws the scene for real. Perhaps there's some driver/hardware issue that makes copying framebuffer to texture give bad results. "Old water" uses the glquake method, which is safe but ugly.

Ideally it would all be replaced with a fragment shader :) 
 
It's a little crazy that FSAA has to be on for Barnak's issue to manifest itself.

@ericw --- gl clear happens AFTER warp textures are updated --- metlslime probably figured better to do it before clearing buffer. Perhaps gl_clear before and after would solve issue if FSAA is on?

(You wrote a dev note saying some Intels need the buffer always cleared. Barnak's computer is saying "Hello!") 
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