News | Forum | People | FAQ | Links | Search | Register | Log in
Replacement KNIGHT.MDL
Replace that ugly old knight with a slightly newer ugly knight. Now with something resembling "feet" and "a head", and not just weird pointy things!

Includes knight.mdl and h_knight.mdl with several skins for including in your fancy new mods and levels, as well as the same files in a PAK2.PAK if you want to plop them in /id1/.

Look! | Readme! | Download!
Upvoted. 
Thanks. 
Oh Nice! 
Say did you update any other models in the past? Like the normal soldier in the Rubicon Rumble Jam? 
Pretty Sure The RRP Grunt 
was capknubs. 
Wondered Who 
yea was wondering who did that one. 
Uuuuuuuuuhm Luuuuuuuuuuuun 
Could you choose are more distinctive filename pretty please? idgames2/graphics/mdl/knight.zip beat you by 18 years. 
Looks Great. 
It's good to see that this model is fixed. It was the worst model after the dog model (on some angles you could see the front of the face from the back of the model as it was so off-center).
Still hoping that capnbubs finishes off the rest of the models though. 
This Looks Good 
thanks lun. 
Also Lowercase Pak File Name Puhlease 
 
Nice! 
 
Testimony 
I have been using this .mdl replacement for several months and it looks awesome! I cannot imagine a world where this knight did not exist.

Please download at use this knight because it owns. 
Knice! 
 
The Difference Is Like Knight And Day 
This knight is permanently replacing the older one. Everything about it is better, from the walking and running animations, to the sword swings. Very smooth, much more pleasing to look at. Which is good to, because my next map has a lot of knights in it. :)
Very well done Lunaran. 
Spirit 
However you need to repackage it for quaddicted you have my permission. 
 
Also, I forgot to mention in the readme, but obviously everyone's free to modify this and add skins or do whatever and redistribute it. 
Source? :) 
What software did you use? Open to releasing the source file incase folks want to make another enemy using the animation sets or variations? I plan to do the same when I finish the Shambler. I use 3dsmax though. 
 
Maya plus a custom pile of python plus a modified MODELGEN.EXE. I could zip it all up and release it but I didn't think anyone else had or used Maya so I didn't think to include the .mb files. Is that something a lot of people would want (and be able to open)? 
Curious About Your Process. 
Oh I have to deal with Maya at work as well though we mainly use 3dsmax. Could be possible to convert it to FBX as well so that folks could reuse the anims on other critters too in any software that supports FBX. Ofcourse at that point the animation is baked flat with no nice rig you might have done inside Maya though.

Lots of custom Python you say? What madness did you do? :) 
 
 
it's easier now to just use Preach's mdl.py because it's an all in one thing. don't use the thing I linked. it's not there forget it 
 
I'd love to see a tutorial on this, I'm sure if I can map that I could make a half decent model... 
 
I HAD BROWSER PROBLEMS BEFORE SO I COULDN'T POST THIS BUT I'M POSTING IT NOW: THIS IS AWESOME.

AWESOME. 
 
I liked the pointy helm and sharp shoulders =\

But otherwise, nice. 
Getting A Model In Quake These Days. 
Actually the easiest thing these days is to simply export your model to FBX and then export it using Noesis to MDL format. I'm doing that for the Shambler remake and its a very straight forward process. My character has a full skeleton which is stripped out on export from Noesis and whatever texture you apply to it becomes part of the MDL. Nice custom UV's as well. 
 
It's shocking how bad the old model + anims are when you really look at them. 
 
I don't think so, actually. When you consider the tools they had at the time and where the state of the art was ... I think they did well enough. :) 
 
Very nice, still in the spirit of Quake. I did have to rename it PAK3 though. I have a PAK2 where I keep all of my transparent water maps. If I weren't so lazy I could probably get a bunch of newer mdls and combine them all into PAK2 (along with the prgs.dat that fixes the fish bug). 
 
it seems like we've got a pretty good collection of from-scratch replacement models that match the original quake aesthetic -- there's a player model, grunt, this knight, plus didn't sock make a new hell knight and some other models?

At this rate we might actually be able to have an open source content pack that can be distributed without copyright issues, and allow people to play custom maps without owning quake.

(i realize sound effects are still a huge hole in this plan.) 
Necros Made Them For Sock 
and willem is right, Kevin Cloud's animation process was move verts, Save As, repeat. :( Skeletal rigging didn't really exist in 3D modeling packages yet. models like the Hell Knight show how much experience with the method he'd gotten by the end of the project. 
 
also, I think the knight was made early enough that they didn't even know how many polies they could get away with. 216 probably seemed like a lot. 
Metl 
grey area as some are surely derivates. But one could try. Bethesda/id luckily(?) seems fairly ignorant on Quake. 
 
I recall the Knight and the horned Ogre were some of the first assets I saw (along with the Dragon), and they were in scenes with Doom textures, and Doom's tall fire sconces. 
Well 
I mean sure, it's a victim of its time and technical constraints, and it's not THAT bad considering those things, but still you can't really sat that the pointy-toes-of-death, nub handed, O.G. knight is not a good looking model. 
Er 
*can't really say
*is a good looking 
Re: 28 
The knights and ogres were more a collaboration, sock provided the new models with new skins, and I provided the animations. 
I Stand Corrected 
/reminded

and yeah, blitz, the knight is still solidly in "a for effort" territory.

So with the knight/dog/ogre/player remade, what's the next worst model? The spawn? I'm not going to actually make it, I'm just curious. 
Spawn's Not That Bad Really. For What It Is, Anyway. 
the next one might be vore. not because its animations are bad, but that it is flat out missing an idle animation.

the fish also had a bizarre bug in its death animation where the head becomes shrunk for no reason after the first frame. 
New Ogre?? 
Wait there is a new ogre model? I have the Grunt, Dog and this new knight remake. What other treasures are out there??? :) 
 
it is flat out missing an idle animation.

Considering how many other models have unused animations, I'm pretty convinced they intentionally didn't give the Vore an idle anim.

Spiders don't wobble when they idle in real life either. 
Vore Just Has A Single Frame 
And that blows! I would have liked a proper idle to make some better fidget anims or something. Yes I am redoing the Vore as well :P 
 
spiders are tiny 
Vore Trick 
If you want to make a drop in replacement for the vore, you can also do a framegroup for client-side idle animation. 
New Ogre 
was never released AFAIK, and if it has then I want it. 
Knight 
It goes without saying this model is awesome! There's plenty of attention paid to making it a good Quake model, like the way the idle animation is slightly exaggerated so that the imprecise vertex format doesn't detract.

However, I couldn't resist tinkering with the skin, as I've often thought the skinmap to the original knight was very wasteful. Not only is there acres of blank space, but the just-larger-than-powers-of-two width and height means it wastes 4 times as much memory in glquake-based engines. So here's Lunaren's model with a Widescreen skin...

http://www.quaketastic.com/files/models/knight-widescreen.zip 
Thanks, Preach! 
I wanted to use original skins without having to do a lot of tinkering or splitting verts, but it did make for a 272x140 skin that would go up to 512x256 in GL quakes. my response to this was basically 'ehh fuck it' but preach found an elegant way to fix it. 
Why Is It Called 
Widescreen fix? Sorry I dont understand how what you said above correlates with widescreen. 
 
It's a tongue-in-cheek way of saying the new skin is a lot more wide than it is tall. 
Interesting... 
it seems like we've got a pretty good collection of from-scratch replacement models that match the original quake aesthetic -- there's a player model, grunt, this knight, plus didn't sock make a new hell knight and some other models?

At this rate we might actually be able to have an open source content pack that can be distributed without copyright issues, and allow people to play custom maps without owning quake.

(i realize sound effects are still a huge hole in this plan.)


This is a very exciting concept. Wouldn't you still have to distribute the game code though? Or could you get round that by using darkplaces or something?

This model is FANTASTIC by the way... far better than the Capnbubs ones in my opinion. Somehow makes mowing down knights 10X as enjoyable. 
Back In The Day 
Re: original models looking bad. As well as being products of their time, let's also remember that this is what quake looked like for everyone playing it back then:

http://i.imgur.com/RrciHoJ.png

All monsters ended up as crude blobs of pixels anyway, so the dodgy texture mapping or janky modelling wasn't really gonna be scrutinised. 
 
True. Motion would be more apparent, though.

This model is FANTASTIC by the way

thank you! 
This Is Badarse 
Cheers! 
Great Stuff 
A really good and fitting continuation of what Capnbubs started with his first few model remakes. I hope that this wasn't everything yet, though. Vore, Shambler and Ogre would be my favorite candidates for future releases, but ofc we all know nobody will be satisfied until all ID1 models are done (and then there are still those of the mission packs). For the time being, this knight joins my collection of must-have Quake assets. Thanks a lot for this one, Lunaran! 
I Lament 
The release of the 10 million dollar knight, but salute the work released.

Just don't let the axe make it too easy. 
SHUSH 
 
Thanks Lunaran... 
...I've just run through Arcarnum with your Knight and Sock's Pak1, very enjoyable. 
 
What's Sock's Pak 1? 
I Think Sock's Pak1 
Is the pak file that more or less always comes bundled together with his map releases, which replaces some default models like shell box and the like to make them more Medieval compatible in terms of their looks.

If you have installed any of Sock's maps, you most likely have got it already. 
Yeah It's The Pak 
with ammo replacement models.

but more importantly, what is ijed's post? And lun's reply :) 
 
I have a combo of all the fixed models, additions and tweaks in one .pak file.
Fixed weapons, capbnbubs improved dog/grunt/player, this knight, socks improved quad damage/ring model and the original grenade model from the quake beta (looks way better than all other replacement grenade models IMO, I think it's the same one as in quoth)...

I'd use socks improved ammo boxes too if there was a way to have them flip between medieval and futuristic in the same way as key models work. I'm sure there is a way for this to be done. 
 
I'm sure there is a way for this to be done.

It's "QuakeC 101" easy. It does require custom progs though. 
Ah Coding... 
my old nemesis.

Seriously, I tried so hard to learn how to code between my last job and this one and I don't have the brain for it. 
An Open Source Content Pack 
I made my nailgun exactly for this purpose, but now I doubt that I'll make any other weapons in foreseeable future. Drowned in other "dream projects", etc. 
Will There Be Support For Quoth? 
 
Just Use Pakscape And Qme 
 
Or Change The 
Pack number so it doesn't conflict. 
 
well, no, not exactly. since kell made a new skin for the quoth knight to make him better fit in with the rest of the *knight monsters, it wouldn't be a straight up drop in.
otoh, it was basically a re-colour, so it wouldn't be that difficult if you know what you're doing. i think? 
Make Preach Do It! 
;) 
Hey, Check It 
Lunaren is that awesome that the Quoth skin is already included! Plus two other skins for a low low price of free!

And did I bother in the widescreen version? Oh yes... 
Who The Fuck Is Lunaren? 
I only know a Lunarian 
 
The quoth knight is the second skin in knight.mdl. If you want to put it in the quoth folder and keep the operation desert storm shoulder pads, just switch the first and second skins (or just delete the first one even) in QME version anything. 
Zombie.mdl 
Have anyone ever attempted to improve it? I think it's the ugliest monster in Quake. 
 
what's wrong with it? it's got some fantastic animations! 
Yeah 
I like the zombie. The model itself isn't special, but the animations of pulling the gibs off work great.

Spiney did an updated version in RMQ but it was stylistically different from the rest of the id monsters. 
I Dunno I Just Don't Like It 
The proportions are weird. I never really liked the animations either.

The pain animation is pretty cool though, although you don't see it very often during normal play. 
 
The zombie could be improved quite a bit I think, without being at all unfaithful. Trouble with it is that it's got a lot of both fast and slow motions, lurches and drags, which gives you a really cool feeling of hanging weight and a struggle to remain standing - when you only get one frame every 10th of a second that motion suffers, and frame smoothing doesn't fix it.

Maybe I shouldn't point it out but I never tested the knight with model interpolation on, so, hope it looks okay! 
Nothing Looks Good With Interpolation On 
So don't worry. 
 
someone agrees with me! 
Manual Interpolation 
There is surely some scope to manually interpolate the extra frames in the model to push it up to 20fps. There would be a tiny bit of QC required to go with it, but it would make any new modpacks look nicer.

But then I'm a heretic that likes Darkplaces and all of the graphical improvements it has brought, so what do I know? 
20fps 
But then that would looking jarring compared to the rest of the monsters. 
 
not if you turn on interpolation! :) 
UGH. 
I'm about as likely to do that as install a hi-res texture pack, or enable .lit lighting or whatever the christ. 
 
I'd also animate this model differently at a different framerate.

Compromises were made in the timing of heel strikes, because they have to land on a frame to look appropriately snappy. I was also limited in how fast the sword swipes are. If he swings the sword from behind his head to in front of it in one frame, for example, vertex interpolation won't swing the sword around to one side, it'll just morph straight through his head. And, without vert interp, it moves too far in one jump to maintain persistence of vision, and it looks like a teleport rather than a swing. That's why all the sword swipes in Quake, including the axe vmodel, look so sluggish, and also why some of the runs (especially the Enforcer) look oddly weightless and hovery with vert interp.

Games with skeletal animation don't have these problems, because the interpolation between keyframes is rotational by joint.

kinn: I play without vert interp because the assets weren't made to look good with it (for the above reasons) but colored lighting is ok with me because the only maps you're going to play that have it were made for it. You should reconsider :) 
 
You should reconsider :)

I guess where I was coming from is that until recently, my experience with coloured lighting was with things like that horrific .lit pack for the standard id maps, that bathed every surface in saturated primary colours.

Truth be told, I do tend to play contemporary maps as the mapper intended, with .lit, fog enabled and whatnot. People making maps these days mostly seem to have got over the novelty of .lit and things have mellowed out. 
\o/ 
Only complete and thoughtful rebuilds can improve the content, usually, but I've harped about texture replacement packs and such already.


After looking at the new knight in game for a long time in a lot of contexts, I now begin to feel he's a little too short. :( 
 
I now begin to feel he's a little too short

I wasn't gonna say anything but I agree he's a little on the vertically challenged side. :}

Still awesome tho. 
Saturated Primary Colours 
Mmm, Quake 64. 
Your Five Bucks Gets You Twenty Fps.... 
There is surely some scope to manually interpolate the extra frames in the model to push it up to 20fps. There would be a tiny bit of QC required to go with it, but it would make any new modpacks look nicer.

Besides the good points raised already about 20fps, one final thing to consider is the low precision of the mdl format. You get quickly diminishing returns, as bits that were only moving a single unit at 10fps start stuttering. It probably only adds to sequences that are already about large movements: I remember when making my ogre model the overhead chainsaw smash worked a bit better with extra tweening frames.

However...if you were going to do it, you could make the model backwards compatible by putting all the tweening frames AFTER the standard frames, so the 20 fps animation of the knight stand animation goes

0, 97, 1, 98, 2, 99,...., 8, 105

That way you get a model that works as a drop-in replacement with some junk frames at the back, which picks up to 20fps with the right code. Interesting to note that you can only pull this off with models whose framecount is no more than 128, else you exceed the basic protocol limit of 256 frames. The 20fps zombie would either need extended engine limits or only selective application of high frame rates...

One last nostalgic note for this plan: in winquake I believe the mod would actually be backwards compatible with the old model! That's because in winquake, when you set a frame above the model's framecount, the frame is reduced into range modulo the framecount. Hence you'd get frame 96 mapped back to frame 0 and 10fps re-emerges! Sadly glquake sets all out of range frames to frame 0 instead, so these tricks are dead.

Unless you combined it with the protocol limits! Pad the model to 255 frames! Then add the tween frames from frame 256! In old protocols the model is 10fps and in extended engines it's 20fps! ed: at this point Preach was sedated and returned to his cell, we'll let him back tomorrow 
Hmm 
another (remotely) possible issue with 20 fps animations, if implemented in quakec, is that the enemy logic will slow down if game fps drops below 20 fps -- this is because the enemy can only think once per frame. 
 
it would also mess with the probabilities for attacks. if a monster has a 10% chance to attack every frame, and you bump from 10 to 20 fps, you now have twice the chance to attack.

otoh, they would be able to maneuver better because they would call movetogoal more often but with smaller increments reducing the chance to hit a wall and cancel movement (so they'd fit through doorways easier, for example). 
 
His legs are definitely short, but he would be a bit taller with the original's style of sharp/pointed helm and pauldrons. But I'm partially bringing that up as I like that look. Like the metal was hammered out quickly by an ogre who'd rather do other things, and the knight's meat was crammed into it. 
MP2 Skin 
Mini-bump for side question:

Any chance to get a version of this model for MP2 (Dissolution of Eternity) as well? Basically all it requires is an edit of the statue skin. 
Post A Reply:
Name:
Title:
Body:
message
question
exclamation
idea
flame
noflame
error
skull
beer
moon
pent
rocket
sheep
pacman
pig
cheese
worldcraft
gauntlet
crate
pitfall
pimp
smile
cool
sad
frown
oi
yay
tongue
evil
wink
neutral
q1
q2
q3
ut
hl
cs
doom
dkt
serious
cube
Website copyright © 2002-2017 John Fitzgibbons. All posts are copyright their respective authors.