|Posted by Orl [220.127.116.11] on 2016/01/21 03:07:25|
|Five years in the making, these two maps are a lengthy journey through a non-linear H.R. giger themed flooded scrapyard. Large areas, hundreds of monsters, dozens of traps and bizarre landmarks await you.
These maps come with only two skill settings, easy and hard. Normal skill is unsupported, and attempting load the map with it will trap you in an enclosed area until the skill is changed.
Exploration is vital, as there is lots of ground to cover. You will most likely not encounter every monster on your first playthrough, but is it encouraged to stray off the path to hunt for health and ammunition, because you are going to need it.
Save often, be prepared to face a horde of enemies at any time. There is no one precise route to take, all are interconnected with one another in some way.
Lastly, and most important and disappointingly, these maps require the use of the RMQ 0.85.3 engine, which is included in the zip file. The reason being is the second part of the map extends beyond Quake's default +-4096 map limit. RMQ is the predecessor to the Quakespasm engine, so most should find the transition easy enough. Quakespasm and other engines may soon support larger map sizes but until then, RMQ 0.85.3 is the only engine that has been tested and can play these maps without issue.
I understand this is a controversial decision and an unpopular one, I like Quakespasm just as much as the rest of you, as it is more stable and optimized. But it could not be helped that the map needed extra room, and I was against the idea of cutting out a large and expensive portion of the map in order to squeeze it into Quake's default map size. I also realize this will create a conflict with sharing demos amongst each other.
Also included are the .map files along with the texture .wad file, which you are free to use for any project of your own.
I feel its also important to note that while this may not be my last Quake map, its my last in regards to very large and overly complex maps.
With that said, please enjoy, critique, and record and share demos to your leisure.
Engine Update : Special build of QuakeSpasm with OMS3 support (windows + mac + source code):
Make sure to enter "sv_protocol 999" in the console before starting the map!
Not time enough!
Finished It Now
The end was great! Loved the zombie part, though I kept falling into holes...I can't see them! gah. Anyways the twisted bits were great. Loved the ending. Very sinister.
Some of the longer reviews left here and on Quaddicted, really tug at my heart strings. I'm glad I was able to provide such a unique experience, particularly in the theme. I have plans for even more uncommon types of environments in possible future maps.
I know many are still occupied with real life, but I eagerly await demo playthroughs from you.
I will try. I'm off work sick atm. Framerate seems to be an issue on this map for me and I have a decent pc
I haven't even played rubicon rumble yet. :(
Recording while playing adds some frustration - I can't reload my usual every-5-sec-nervous-tic saves, maybe it is the same for some others and that explains lack of demos.
Here is mine.
oms3_2 is incomplete, died in zombie part and can't do this all over again atm.
BTW imho everything after SK door could be separate map. From what I saw it was a one way drop without returning path.
As mentioned already maps are a bit too claustrophobic often and floors need more clipping. As it is - easy felt as hard, and hard as nightamre++ to me 8)
Though visuals make up for it. Style is different from anything I saw. Pretty cool.
+1 Quickload Makes Demos Hard...made Like 18 On My Playthrough
cl_democleanuptoamount 32 (default 10) Ya...because since I play nightmare.
I know aguiRe in an unreleased enhanced gl/winquake engines made it so that a demo is always recording to one file, no matter how many times you die and reload the map from a save file.
Played The First Map
I love the theme, very original and alien - Don't see that very much in Quake these days!
The game play style you went for isn't really my cup of tea, but it was consistent throughout the first map and therefore a certain amount of pre-planning and setup can be done to counter the insane ambushes :) I actually think it ends up working because of this. If it had been "standard" Quake game play and then suddenly a brutal as fuck ambush it would feel very cheap. You set the players expectations right at the start and don't deviate from that formula.
A lot of the platforms you move around on are too small and very fiddly. Especially so when you are required to fight on them too. Frankly I pulled off some MLG pro manoeuvres platforming around these areas and again, it actually started to become fun after a while because of the pre-planning allowed by the consistent enemy ambushing.
It is very rare that I will study the layout of an area closely before tripping the ambush but this level I was doing it practically in every area. Granted it was a necessity in most cases to avoid death but still, I found it refreshing and enjoyable by the end.
I think with perhaps a more organic way to introduce enemies into the environment, something like this could work extremely well in the future.
I will get around to playing the rest of it soon, I haven't downloaded the experimental QuakeSpasm yet!
"You Are Sick"
You flatterer :)
Great demo there Daz, your strategic studying of each area before setting off a potential wave of monsters is what kept you alive, not to mention you remain collective under intense pressure when many enemies are attacking you at once.
Be expected to further plan out your course of action for most areas in the second map, but also breathe a sigh of relief as there are not nearly as many places where you can fall to your death, but don't let your guard down entirely.
Looking forward to your second demo :)
Very unique style and theme, loved it! Great atmosphere.
Oddly shaped industrial structures of unknown purpose, a random bunch of factory and spaceship parts dumped onto a scrapyard, and some wasteland vermin/scum settling in. The weird hands, unclear whether also scrap of unknown origin or possibly some otherworldly means of managing the scrap piles. Hazardous materials and parasitic alien biomass fusing and evolving into a twisted hivemind corrupting the place further from within.
Impressive vistas, it's a marvel to look at all the shapes and odd stuff. I don't really like the faces, but the rest is top notch. Maybe even more generic scrap piles would have been good. Underwater ground is pretty flat. It's nice how one transitions from open areas to enclosed dark places, each environment hiding further hostilities. The structure rising out of the water is very cool, too. A twist on the empty water area in the first level.
The nonlinear way in which one can approach each building is nice. Button hunting makes sense here; it certainly allows the player to get a more complete sense of the environment.
The industrial nature of it all comes across well in the sense that it's recognizable but vague enough that, to me at least, it doesn't look unrealistic. Apart from the fact that it's all in ruins and all.
In this regard, the tightness and crampedness make sense. However, it makes movement very awkward most of the time. I realize such shapes and twisted walkways clash with Quake clunky physics and there's only so much one can do about it. Still, on many occasions better clipping (and other movement enhancements; nonsolid bits, additional railings here and there) would have been possible. It's just too easy to get stuck on things and subsequently get cornered by enemies; or fall off structures - into the water if you're lucky; to your death otherwise. This gets annoying if it happens several times in a row.
Gameplay wasn't that much fun for me. I did enjoy it overall, but there were several frustrating situations. The majority of encounters is teleport ambushes, often right in your face, and maybe a little too predictable quickly. Admittedly, with an open layout like these map have, there's little choice.
I played on Hard skill expecting such big areas would be too empty on Easy. Guess that was a mistake. Thinking about it now, it would probably add to the map/atmosphere if there weren't as many enemies overall. In consequence, I had quite a hard time. Some ambushes or traps are downright assholish.
The underwater cave with where you raise the green structure is very problematic. It's easy to miss the biosuit, and the buttons to lower/raise the lift only work once = likely many deaths there, also the possibility of locking oneself out (or in). Should have been accessible continously times, perhaps two buisuits or a respawning one (in sight, not behind the player!), maybe an additional path to the area, e.g. part of the ceiling opening up after pressing the required button.
The final 'infestation' area has a nice twist - having the player be able to only use grenades initially. It's also very cool to see the fenced part, like someone used to live there, eventually to be drained and corrupted by the Shub creature - or maybe they sought refuge there? Unfortunately, the area proved to be very difficult as well. Little in the way of supplies (health) and attacks out of the darkness. The decent into the flesh part is a bit of shame, because it forced me to rush it - pressure from behind, quad, awkward movement, time-sensitive boss fight without cover. Would have loved to take a moment and enjoy the scenery.
I had to switch to the RMQ engine half-way though which made things a little less smooth. Was under the impression my version of QS supports protocol 999, though apparently it doesn't. Shame it doesn't fit into 666 limits.
Started recording demos, but quickly stopped. Instead, you can watch it on stream
for the next 7 days.
By and large a great experimental map with very particularistic gameplay. Not for everyone, but worth checking out for the scenery alone.
OTP with his standard complaint about knights in a non-medieval environment... But here I imagined them not as knights in the classic sense, but some sort of wasteland gangers wearing makeshift armors made of scrap metal welded together - and suddenly it worked in the map's favor.
Apart from the Giger'ish influences, the style also somewhat reminded me of Borderlands, with a bit desolation from that one old Dr. Who episode I watched as a child and probably remember all wrong.
I'm glad to hear you for the most part, enjoyed it. Watching your playthrough, you persevered even in the toughest of situations. As you said, the gameplay is not for everyone and I'm further realizing that. The comments during the stream reflect that very much, most were very critical of certain choices I made, and overall didn't have many positive things to say, other than that the map looked good.
I've come to accept that, that is probably my only forte of mapping, painting a pretty scene. I can't make decent gameplay, and it shows. With such openness of the maps themselves, it was very difficult to insert enemies where they wouldn't just be a sniping target, which is the main reason why I relied so much on teleport ambushes. viewing gameplay footage now, I can see no one likes that.
I'm on the fence of throwing in the towel, considering gameplay is not my strong suit. You can't have a pretty map without strong gameplay to back it up. Otherwise, it just becomes a walking simulator.
And I'm sorry to see that RMQ gave you so much trouble, especially since there was an experimental version of Quakespasm released meant for oms3_2. Seeing you struggle to get it running to your liking, you became frustrated afterwards and a bit reckless, in a sense that you just wanted to get the map over and done with. I can understand that, its not fun.
The sunken ruins that rise up into an entire new section was one of the most amazing things I have seen a Quake map do. There were so many different paths to ultimately get to the silver key...and the fact you are launched into the hand (The most iconic set piece in the map) is just wicked awesome. Thoughts that went through my mind when I went outside was: "I want to be able to get onto one those structures."
I think you are far too critical on yourself and should be proud of what you have accomplished. The frantic underwater search for the button and the 180 degree change of pace with the abandoned brain/zombie section is some really cool stuff!
Please don't throw in the towel as I would be excited to see what you would come up with next!
Yep ORL you are being way too hard on yourself and it's actually making me kind of angry. You shouldn't be pandering to others and their expectations of what a quake map should be. Make whatever the hell you want, nobody is going to complain about more Quake maps in 2016. The people who are giving criticism on here are veterans who have been mapping for many years and people who are pissed they have to use another engine. Seriously just make whatever you want and people will play it. No reason to throw in the towel just because someone didn't think the gameplay was Quakey enough. If anything, find those elements and make them even more extreme in your next map just to spite them.
Killer Of Dreams
I'm on the fence of throwing in the towel, considering gameplay is not my strong suit. You can't have a pretty map without strong gameplay to back it up
Personally I have been holding back on feedback because no one likes to be the destroyer of dreams. Its obvious you have spent years on this project and are a long standing member of the community, but I don't think you are rationally seeing the feedback for what it is.
No map is ever perfect (visually or game play wise) and if you want to make a map that everyone will like then you are going to be making a very bland map! Every map has warts and pimples and things that don't make any sense, but that is part of their character, their charm. Remember you should always be mapping for yourself first and if other people like your stuff then all well and good.
There are many awesome things going on with your map, visuals fantastic, brushwork top notch, re-using of architecture for different routes and raising of the platform structure in the second map, was mind blowing! When you see it for the first time, its just a classic moment.
I think most of the feedback in this thread is saying the same thing and because you have spent so long on this project you are not seeing the wood for the trees anymore!
Most of your gameplay is one thing, monsters spawning really close in tight, trapped or confined areas! Everything is so close that there is no time to use other weapons like grenades or shotguns, the player is forced to use one weapon, the SNG. There is no space to strafe or move around and keep monsters at arms length while using slower or explosive weapons.
There is just no variety of encounters; monsters spawning gradually from distance or standing / patrolling areas already. You rarely give the player a chance to plan an encounter during combat, its mostly reactionary instead of a mixture of strategic and surprise. You say that there was no space to have everything gradually setup, but you could easily bring monsters in from the edge of the map with platforms, ramps or gated areas.
The second problem is scale, it feels like you built everything from the map editor camera's perspective. When in game its just too tiny, the player is constantly running into architecture, catapulting off bumpy ramps and unable to strafe left or right easily. There are tons of excessive floor detail that makes the player camera bounce up and down and awkward to move across while fighting.
it is extremely apparent you have poured a massive amount of time and effort into this project and I think you should have got an outside opinion earlier on. Maybe email another mappers you admire and respect and find out if your map has any game play issues. No one likes to change stuff after it has been worked on for a long time and this is something that everyone struggles with.
The final issue for me was your engine choice, I could not see any reason for the map not being split at the SK entrance down to the zombie area. Its designed as a one way trip and the teleporter back up felt awkward to me. I know the trend in Quake mapping is to make everything so big it takes hours to complete, but the intermission screen does play a powerful role, its a natural break point. Just like books are rarely just one chapter, the same could be said of games.
I think what you have created is visually awesome, the final sections of the second map is mind blowing with its zombie infested chaotic layout and the final rollercoaster ride at the end, it was perfect. Personally I think you should try experimenting more with different encounter setups or try teaming up with someone else. Working together could be a cool way to try different ideas and find other encounter styles.
You shouldn't be pandering to others and their expectations of what a quake map should be. Make whatever the hell you want
Kinda hard to argue with this.
If that's what you consider destroying dreams, you should destroy some more - because it's good, constructive feedback. Better than not replying at all out of some sort of misunderstood diplomacy.
Oh, And Orl:
Don't quit before the sequel!
If you're good at something, stick at it. And you obviously are. I didn't really mind the engine restrictions and loved the rusty scrapyard style. I'll deliberately bypass gameplay flaws already mentioned by others. Your opening post sets the tone: a big endeavour carrying great expectations. When a reward is eagerly awaited, it's usually harder to face unexpected critcism or lack of interest. This might lead to deep disappointment. In fact, the problem lies not in your maps but in your self-centered process. Working on such a huge project alone unavoidably leads to lose objectivity and make wrong choices along the path. You should team up. Teamates help each other for a greater good. The best way for a good creator to become better. Don't give up on impulse. There's no shame in learning lessons. And if you'll ever decide to leave Quake mapping, I for one will miss you and your unique and uncanny style!
Thank You For The Kind Words
Make no mistake, I am proud of what I accomplished, but I suppose I set my expectations too high. Its rather contradicting to say build whatever I like, don't pander to those who think what a Quake map should be like, then release it and be surprised to see everyone says it plays like a pile of ass :)
I guess its safe to say, I'll never please everyone, and I'm fine with that. Just learn from your mistakes, figure out what was mostly disliked and improve on that aspect.
@negke There's a sequel?
The sequel is the descemt further into the evil hellion landscape.
Well, I actually wasn't planning on continuing the hellish scrapyard. If anything, I'll probably explore some new themes that are either rare, or haven't been seen in Quake before.
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