News | Forum | People | FAQ | Links | Search | Register | Log in
DOOM 4 IS GOLD (OMG)!
<Daz_> two minutes until were all DOOMed
<Daz_> and Marty Stratton can let out that huge fart hes been holding in during all the promo spots

Doom 4, aka DOOM (2016), is finally out:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/379720/

Figured that a clean break might be a good idea, considering how the other thread has became monstrously huge and full of Bad Posting.

The questions at large:

- Is it a success for id, or the bitter end?
- Is the final boss a sprite of Marty Strapon's head? Or is it Willits?
- Will Friction spend another 12 years on a SnapMap?
- How many more words will it make Kinn add to his Trouser Thesaurus?
- Has than's wishlist for DOOM 4 from over 8 years ago come true?

*more enemies active at once
*better, more satisfying weapons
*COOP < most important thing
*larger environments
*more evilness
*more varied environments
*better level design
*no cutscenes
*heavier monsters used early on
*no shitty zombie commandos that can do somersaults and backflip behind cover. I don't mind the mutant ones with whip arms etc. but the regular z-sector ones were so annoying and not fun to fight.
*better AI on the more significant hellspawn creatures.
*mutant owl neck syndrome toned down
*monsters have finishing moves when they kill you, like in the first doom 3 leaked shakycam footage where the hell-knight eats the player's head. That kind of thing.
*the ability to use a flashlight and proper gun at the same time.
* No shit story involving an evil scientist. I can't believe they didn't realise how amazingly cheesy this idea was.
* Don't give it to Raven to develop.
* Properly fucking visceral weapons. Remeber the super shotgun in Doom 2? Fucks sake. Look at the weapons in Half-Life 2. Listen to the sounds they make. Take notes.


Anyway, discuss DOOM 4...
Watched TB's Stream 
This looks MUCH better than what I was expecting. It's rather fast, levels are big, interconnected and sprawling with locked doors and associated keys; however they are mostly arena-centric and these arenas are mostly static. They don't really open as you go like they did in the older titles. Lots of shit to find though, for example an early level has a whopping 8 secrets.

Monsters so far have only been Imps, Hell Knights and some dudes with shields. There is infighting, hurrah! Also yes, enemies have finishing moves when you die, like a Hell Knight beating you to death. They move around a lot to catch up, which is pretty cool.

Glory kills are, predictably, very repetitive. There is a story but you can mostly ignore it. HOWEVER there is at least two instances in the early game in which you are locked in a room for story purposes. In a fucking Doom game. Like, seriously? At least you could skip that shit in Doom 3 (not in the BFG edition though).

Overall I feel like the Bethesda marketing team completely and royally fucked up marketing this game. The multiplayer bit is abysmally shitty but the singleplayer is really decent so far, at least much better than what I expected and I've been very skeptical since day one. They should've shown the SP portion a lot more instead on focusing on the terrible Halo clone that is the MP bit. 
 
This Cyberdemon fight looks both hilarious and depressing. It's like Bangbus meets a clown car. But themed like Diablo 3 in so many ways.

Also, every bit of level design I've seen so far... I believe them when they say they're using SnapMap. Some of it looks like it could've been procedurally generated. And I'm still only seeing corridor arena corridor set piece corridor arena corridor. 
Enjoying Every Moment Of It 
yes, rly. 
+1 
it's very good :D 
 
Yep, so far so good. 
 
How long till this baby reaches freedom huh ? 
Why A New Thread? 
So far it seems like you'll be using finishers for 95% of all monsters?! 
Is Idtech 6 Well Optimized? 
Asking this so to know if my laptop can run this in case I want it 
Sys Specs 
Why A New Thread? 
Continuing with the discussion thread/release thread func_tradition and for the same reasoning. 
 
"They don't really open as you go like they did in the older titles"


Oh come on! Dammit 
 
- How many more words will it make Kinn add to his Trouser Thesaurus?

I don't know about that, but for what it's worth - and I don't know if it's DOOM-related or not - but for some reason last night my sleep was compromised with one of the most painful cases of trapped wind I've experienced in ages. It got so bad it even crossed my mind I might need to go A&E. I eventually found sleep at around 6am and rose at 11.30am. I was due to pick my mother up from the airport but luckily my sister was able to sub in for me. 
Bet That Fart Felt Good When It Finally Came Out Tho 
 
Friday 
the Farteenth. 
Yayayaya 
fart like hell! 
The Fart Was... 
...anticlimactic.

I hope my whole trapped wind build-up and disappointing gaseous release doesn't turn out to be some great big metaphor of the game that this thread is about. 
Revenants! 
OMG! Just met my first revenant and it was awesome. I love what they've done with them. I didn't realise they are so large now, but it really makes them feel more like a mini boss enemy.

Also, the sound is really, really, good. I think my speakers are just shit, because through headphones it sounds awesome. I'm not quite sure how I feel about the music, but it definitely has some great moments, and there are a few parts where it definitely has the classic Doom vibe. Speaking of which, the classic Doom level music sounds great, but still has a midi flavour too it.

oh, and I found tons of secrets. I picked up the SSG on the last level and OMFG is it powerful. I think I'm going to put all my weapon mod points into it for taking down hell knights with.

The Doomguy figure secrets are great. I really feel like I just gotta get them all. When you find the green one there's even a special little animation.

Anyway, I'm really enjoying the game so far. The gameplay is solid and the level design is surprisingly old skool in its complexity. You can totally get lost, and there are key cards and switches and all kinds of different routes and non-linear shit. It's so far from Call of Duty it's not even on the same planet, thank fuck. 
This Is Doom 
yeah, wow, this game is fun. the visuals are gorgeous and it runs flawlessly even maxed out.

It's just so fun, it feels really good to just play. the feedback is nice, the controls are smooth and solid, the sound is great. Honestly, I'm shocked. Ultra-Violence offers a rather challenging, but fair, experience. I foresee doing a nightmare run afterwards and doing a more thorough sweep of the levels (I'm only doing about 50% right now).

I agree with skacky on the marketing. It's almost like it was intentionally deceptive. What was revealed and in what manner is not indicative of the experience this game provides. at all.

The game isn't perfect, but the flaws are minor. This shits all over rage, and I'm enjoying it considerably more than W:TNO (which I quite liked). The team at id did a great job! I'm releaved :D I almost feel like I was pranked by the marketing. 
 
OK I'm now really jelli that my options seem to be: 1) attempt to play this on my roughly minimum-spec laptop, or 2) Buy a console just to play this. 
This Is All Very Good To Hear! 
 
Fart Analysis 
Alright, so here's what bothers me with this game.

As stated, the level design in this game is really really fucking good. It's a return to form, something I thought I'd never see again from a AAA FPS. Levels are huge, interconnected, full of secrets and some are non-linear. All of that is awesome, but the game mechanics undermine all of that. Why, you ask?

The game is clearly tailored towards always staying in combat with a pi�ata system that restores health and ammunition (with glory kills and with the chainsaw), making health items and ammunition boxes somewhat redundant. And they are, especially on higher difficulties like UV or Nightmare. Monsters hit so hard on Nightmare and health kits scattered around give so little health that you are encouraged to always use glory kills to get health. This leaves the player with no real incentive to scour for health items, something TB said in his video and his conclusion I hugely disagree with, stating that this system is better and doesn't break the flow of the game, unlike scouring for items. I find this conclusion really simplistic and false; if anything retreating with low health and managing resources is one aspect that makes games such as Doom really exciting to play. A stray fireball or a lost bullet before you reach a precious kit can be your end if you don't manage your resources. With health kits and ammunition to be found in monsters upon death, this whole aspect is lost. Also, and this is down to preference, but the glory kills are really boring and they DO break the flow of the game. You are not in control. Not for very long, thank Satan, but still. UV and Nightmare really make their use almost mandatory if you want to stay alive.

But, there are secrets to be found, and indeed, there's lotsa secrets. The problem is that they're not filled with precious items such as Mega Armors or Soulspheres, but with collectibles or small items. Items scattered in secrets like this were made to reward an observant player and help them considerably in the fight. Now they're mostly (not always) here to increase your collection of collectibles and whatnot. I find this quite disconcerting. The level design clearly isn't at fault here; the game design is.

I've seen some people compare the automaps to Doom 3 levels and I cannot disagree more. The levels in that game were as small, as linear and as narrow as they come, with little to no exploration. They gave Half-Life 2's levels a run for their money. Doom 4 has the balls to provide big interconnected levels in a world of dreary AAA FPS titles filled with dull linear maps so the average dumbfuck gamer cannot get lost. I'll take Doom 4's sprawling levels over Doom 3's tiny linear levels any day of the week. This level design, however, is further undermined by the absolute abundance of arenas in which you're locked in. Now, closed arenas are not an issue when used sporadically. I used them in my Quake maps, the gold key arena in my Jam 2 map being a prime example, but the game constantly throws these at you and they become quite boring. Now the level design is clever enough not to be corridor-arena-corridor, and that's a very good thing, but these arenas are still much too prevalent to my taste. I want to move around the map at my leisure and collect items.

Another thing with arenas is that they never evolve, at least not the ones I've seen. You trigger the arena, waves come in and that's about it. No moving walls to expand the arena, make it more interesting or reveal cool shit. You kill monsters and then you can proceed to the next static arena.

Now, does that make it a bad game? Hell no, it's a pretty good game and it's much better than what I was expecting, it's more worthy of the Doom title than Doom 3. But this clash of schools of game design end up being detrimental to the amount of awesome work put in the level design. Were this pi�ata system not there at all and the maps filled to the brim with items and ammo to find, the game would've been even better. Still, the level design clearly is going in the right direction and is extremely refreshing. 
 
So it turns out that the aspect of the game that everyone least expected to be done right (level design) was actually done right. 
Oh Shit Son 
Can you believe that more years have passed between Doom 3 and Doom 4 (12) than between Doom 2 and Doom 3 (9)?

Wow that makes me feel like an old fart. 
I Want To Play More 
I took the day off to play doom yet I somehow found myself driving my wife up to an orchid festival in miami. Now I'm surrounded by blue-hairs and men with fanny packs instead of imps and hell knights. 
 
That TB video has made me doubt his input on... every video I've watched of his on a game I haven't played. I knew he was wrong on some, because I knew the games, but... He made very specific game mechanic statements in this one.

"I find this conclusion really simplistic and false; if anything retreating with low health and managing resources is one aspect that makes games such as Doom really exciting to play. A stray fireball or a lost bullet before you reach a precious kit can be your end if you don't manage your resources. With health kits and ammunition to be found in monsters upon death, this whole aspect is lost."
It also devalues spatial awareness and recollection, and favors linear level design. You don't need to note that health pickup you don't need right now, because you won't really need to go back and get it - and thus the general space around you right now stops having any value in your performance. Out of sight, out of mind, and thus the area you are in is a decoration for the current fight.

The Glory Kill system seems like a sickly stepchild of Ryse's execution systems (which also used the environment, and could handle two targets, I will say) which was used to demonstrate your character's leadership role in the story, but also had input tests to determine how beneficial the reward was (and you set the reward type). The thing is, it was mechanically similar to the core gameplay loop of rhythmic employment of blocking and striking. This is pressing a button once when they flash.

"Levels are huge, interconnected, full of secrets and some are non-linear.
...
This level design, however, is further undermined by the absolute abundance of arenas in which you're locked in."
I've watched a lot now, and I've only seen two levels that weren't corridor-arena-corridor in design, and both of those still had some degree of gating based upon killing every enemy. Sure they had little bits here and there, but I haven't seen a proper sized non-mandatory area, like we saw with the blinking tech area in e1m2, or the database room leading to the soulsphere secret in e1m3 - or much of e1m4 as a whole... Maybe I've been very unlucky in my watching?

Yeah a lot of it is better than standard AAA level design - but that is hardly a goal to shoot for... And, an aside, this is one of the first big studios to make a multiplatform game that didn't support the 360/PS3, that also hasn't done primarily just that, so they don't have that culture ingrained just from previous works to a heavy degree. When people talk about recent AAA games, they're talking about recent multiplatform games which 98% of the time supported the 360/PS3. Rather old, fixed hardware, but with a playerbase that expects improving visuals between releases. How do you do that when you run out of optimization tricks? You unload everything behind the player, which means locking off access, which means the level designs available without sacrificing minimum visual fidelity for the player base is... Forward.

We might see more involved level designs again in AAA, and I'm sure some will credit Doom 4 on that, but, they do have room to stretch their legs again, for the first time in many, many years. And then the cycle will repeat and their range of choices in design will become curtailed in the same way. The real X factor is if they can break out of their own molds long enough to appreciate the current standard of visuals for the fixed hardware's capability, before that standard encroaches their choice again.

Okay that was a big "aside". Might be worth a blog post.

Anyways, nothing I've seen makes me lament my old machine yet. My desire to tinker with UE4 drives my need for a new video card thousands of times more than what I've seen of Doom 4 so far (especially not that Cyberdemon fight, ugh...).

I think I'll enjoy more spending my gaming time on checking out the major Doom releases from the past two years, actually finishing Arcane Dimensions, and getting to know Trenchbroom until my wife needs me to help with something.

Doesn't mean I won't refresh this thread regularly though, I'm a sucker for player data and impressions of mechanics. 
Thoughts 
Since my girlfriend came over last night, I haven't been able to play the game any more since my last post (which makes me sad, because I'm really enjoying it), but I do want to respond to a couple of criticisms from Skacky and Scar3crow.

1. The health packs are kinda useless.
To some extent, I agree, but I actually like the glory kill system. In order to perform a glory kill, you have to get an enemy to very low health, which is not so difficult on weaker enemy, but they don't give you a ton of health back, and during a glory kill you are still vulnerable to attack (I think... it feels that way), so if I'm about to die in a firefight I target the larger enemies because they give a lot of health. To me, this is preferable to suddenly backing out of a fight to look for health because there is quite a lot of risk doing that, and it feels exiting. I've literally clawed my way back from 1% health doing this. There are also health stations, which do give a lot of health, though they are shown on the map.

Also, although the number of animations in the glory kill system is limited, it doesn't annoy me so much, as there are still multiple ways to glory kill each enemy, plus you also have the chain saw and berserk power ups to add to this.

Scar3crow: I kind of agree with you point about spatial awareness being somewhat devalued by the health system. I still prefer the health system here though.

2. The secrets don't contain anything that can change the way you play the map.
Yes they do. They aren't always stocked full of ammo, but I found the plasma rifle and super shotgun in secrets quite a while before I found them in the regular map areas. There is often armor and you sometimes come across supply crates. On top of that, the tokens you get from the elite guards that allow you to upgrade your gear are mostly found in secrets.

3. There is no need to revisit areas you have been to.
Well, this seems to be mostly true so far. The foundry level is incredibly open, and I passed through the same hub areas many times before I finished. The following level also had a main hub I kept ending up back in, but other than that, the only reason to revisit areas was to find secrets. Still, the automap really encourages you to look for secrets, so I've been doing a lot of backtracking personally.

4. Most of the battles are in locked in arenas.
This is something I noticed a lot. There are certainly many areas where you trigger a bunch of demons and can't leave until they are all dead. For the larger fights you usually have quite a large space to move around in though, and there are still plenty of times when you are not locked in. Also, the monsters can relentlessly persue you - try running away from a hell knight for instance. Pretty much everything can climb up or down too, so the combat is far more vertical than in many other games, so the locked doors in many areas didn't bother me so much.

5. The arenas are static and don't evolve
So far this appears to be the case, but the level I was at the end of last night way a giant tower that you have to climb up. It has tons of moving stuff and platforms to jump between. Combat was not really happening whilst it was moving, but it does make me wonder if there will be more of this kind of stuff later on. I'm only 5 hours in, and since I've done so much secret hunting, I can only assume I'm not that far into the game. 
Doom Is Irrelevant! 
So earlier today I saw hipsters walking around wearing Doom t-shirts.

The game just went from hated, to released, to loved, to totally irrelevant, all in the space of one day.

I joke, of course. But I did see the hipsters. 
 
Pretty sure you're invulnerable during glory kills, like you are in other canned animations. Also, their snapping you to the target works vertically too. Saw a guy slipping off a cliff by a staggered imp. Bam, back on top, punching said imp. 
 
pinata is a very bad game play mechanism, having to dodge and conserve your health make combat that much more tense than just clicking to refill your health AND ammo.

people got very pissed off in the other thread when you noticed this.

One thing that also make me a little disappointed is how come the battles in doom 4 are less complex and smaller scale than the best levels and wads from doom 2 onwards? 
Because The Whole Fight System Is Based Around Glory Kills 
and most fights are done serious sam style. 
 
"and most fights are done serious sam style."

serious sam style is very large outdoor areas with immense amounts of enemies and are usually well designed and interesting fights. With even some elements of territorial control- ie not getting pushed back too much from where the ammo is lying.

Is Doom 4 the same? 
 
serious sam style is just holding down W and mouse1 for 15 minutes while slowly moving the mouse left. 
 
No, clearly not. Doom 4 is a lot more arena-based. 
Snapeditor 
Anyone here playing Doom on consoles? How usable is the editor on a console, can you create singleplayer maps with it and can you somehow export maps created on a console so that PC players can play them and vise-versa? 
Just Played First 3 Levels 
I really like it. It's fast, violent, the levels seem awesome, with great flow, and it's got a certain amount of originality with the gameplay that builds on and refines previous Dooms. 
Any Press Reviews? 
Is it normal for a game this big to be released but have no metacritic reviews yet? (I ignore the user reviews because the vast majority of them at this stage are either "10/10" fake reviews, or "0/10" wanker-with-an-agenda reviews.) 
 
Unlike most games, no review copies of this game were given out before release so gaming publications have only begun playing the game and making their reviews. Gamespot says that their review will be out "early next week". 
Giant Bomb Quicklook 
It's That Good... 
I was forced to pause my 8 hour marathon session. Because apparently, if you have an erection for that long, it's bad for your health and they might have to drain your penis. 
Weird That... 
I woke up around 4am needing the loo, but with a super boner that wouldn't go away and had to think really hard about boring things in order to fit it under the toilet seat. That NEVER happens. Normally I don't even wake up in the night. I think it might have had something to do with Doom. I also vagely remember dreaming something Doom-like, but it was too vague.

Anyway, I played a bit more and just got the BFG.

It's weird that of all the enemies I've met so far, the one I seem to have most trouble dealing with is the pinkies. I always seem to get hit by them when I'm trying to get behind them. This is unrelated to the first part about boners.

Will play some more soon. Really want to finish it, but I have a standing desk at home and my knees hurt :/ 
 
"serious sam style is just holding down W and mouse1 for 15 minutes while slowly moving the mouse left."

not true 
Serious Sam 
If you're going to be reductive about Serious Sam, at least say S. W is just going to get you destroyed almost immediately... S buys you like, another 30 seconds. Kleer Skeletons, Sirian Werebulls, Headless Kamikazes, Reptiloid homing projectiles, Minor Biomechanoid lasers, the Harpies flight and projectiles, among other things all move faster than you do. So, backpedaling is just a start, you need to move in almost figure eights while periodically making a hard turn to stay in reach of the available resources. And that is just for flat open areas, without considering obstacles, platforms, pits, etc.

Doom 4's arenas are not really like Serious Sam's fights, they're more akin to Painkiller's. 
But Even Then 
Going the beat'em up route instead of the traditionnal "A->B in an almost believable environment and killing enemies i soptionnal" is kind of baffling since this is Doom's mark, and that design makes fighting monsters very repetitive. 
Started It On Ultra Violence 
and I've been finding it fairly easy so far. Fun, but easy. 
Anyone Playing On Console 
 
Finished The Game 
SPOILERS: REFERENCES TO LATEGAME LEVEL DESIGN IN POST

I have to agree w/ Skacky wholeheartedly that the level design is quite good, much better than expected. Certain levels fare much better than others, and the level after titan's realm in particular felt like a proper little doom level in its structure.

While I enjoyed my time in the game, I feel like it's approach to enemy placement (though I suppose enemy timing might be more apt) is it's biggest downfall.

The arenas are generally all pretty well designed and unique. However, they can lead to being overly complex, and enemies enter them rather chaotically(via teleportation). The pre-release video from a few days before release mentioned how the enemies were all like chess pieces that worked together, but after playing the game, there were 2 archetypes, enemies that fire a projectile at you (imps, mancubii, revenants), and enemies that jump on you (hellknights, barons). Enemies that had the potential to be quite interesting and really change your approach to a fight/the way you dodge were underutilised or weakened by the insane verticality of the arenas (summoners, hellrazers). Also, because of the way enemies spawn in in waves, as well as the complexity of the arenas, you don't really get that sensation of tightly designed encounters. It's just frantic chaotic fighting in multilevelled arenas. This is fine, its fun, but I feel like it leaves you wanting, and makes the game feel very samey the whole way through.

This comes back to the arena > corridor > arena design; combat and exploration seem to occur as 2 seperate experiences. There's no real sense of progressing through hell, fighting your way through a horde; you simply move from *isolated arena fight A* to *isolated arena fight B* with very little in the way of interest inbetween. You could say that secrets help add interest to these areas, but I feel like that would be missing the point.

In general, while the vertical levels are fun to move around in, I don't feel that they necessarily end up being as fun to to fight in. In particular, the final level's triple arenas felt a bit cluttered: you didn't really have room to move around and dance on the floor because there's so much elevation variation. Also, because a lot of the arenas are so complex, you get the chance to isolate enemies a lot just by chance, meaning you can take a lot of encounters 1 on 1. Maybe other people had a different experience, but I feel like its worth pointing out.

Additionally, the lack of ambushes and dynamic arenas (as skacky mentioned) is a real shame. The armour ambush in Titan's realm brought a grin to my face, and I was hoping it marked a shift in gameplay mechanics towards classic doom gameplay, but this midgame flourish of more doomish level design was shortlived.

This post is a bit rambling and wandering by my own admission, but I have this sense of frustration with D44M after playing it that I'm trying hard to articulate. I enjoyed it on its own merits as a new shooter and a fun little journey (w/ a shocking story) but it doesn't exist in a vacuum. The same levels w/ reworked enemy placement and encounters could shine, but as it stands, it feels half baked. However, they got enough right that I feel a sequel or expansion (perhaps The Old Blood style where it cuts back on the RPG-lite progression) could be quite good.

Other various thoughts; rune trials, praetor suit progression, and the rune equips don't really add anything and I feel kill the pacing. I quite enjoyed the weapon mods, thought I would kind of prefer it was just about finding the robots and there was no progression after that. 
 
"There's no real sense of progressing through hell, fighting your way through a horde;"

this is unacceptable. Shame on you id, shame on you.

"Additionally, the lack of ambushes and dynamic arenas (as skacky mentioned) is a real shame."

"[...] the lack of ambushes and dynamic arenas [...]"

UNACCEPTABLE

my impression from what I have read is that this game is a few steps (back) in the right direction, but they are still far from "Nailing it". 
Finished It Now 
I really enjoyed it and like pretty much everyone is saying, it really exceeded my expectations in how close it feels to the original Doom.

Still, I can't help agree with Danrul about the combat in some of the later levels being a bit too chaotic and arenas too complex. It seems like imps and other weaker enemies are spawned like crazy in order to keep you on your toes, but I really wanted at least one arena without these distractions so that I could just fight the large enemies and have a bit more time to understand the space. There only were a few times in the game where a large enemy would make an appearance in a really awesome and quite memorable battle which wasn't cluttered with annoying cannon fodder (Baron of Hell intro maybe?), but these were few and far between.

I think the problem with some of the arenas in the game is that they are fucking huge, so you end up learning a little area quickly and waiting for the enemies to come to you. There were some arenas that were so vertical, that I didn't even know about half the space was navigable until after the battle had ended and I had a chance to explore, or if I was knocked down by an enemy.

Also, a few more enemies spawning outside of the main arenas would have been nice. The Foundry level was quite good at this, with the odd Hell Knight spawning to keep me on my toes, but most levels were a bit too predictable. It felt like one of the strongest images of Doom the designers had whilst making it was of seeing a switch, or item and then all hell breaking loose when the player gets there. I like that, but it was a bit too overused.

Whilst the earlier levels have a lot of interconnectivity, the game seems to get gradually more linear feeling the further you progress. This annoyed me a bit because it meant that I'd enter an arena, have 5 minutes of fighting, and then never see battle in it again after I'd become a bit more familiar with it. It also meant that I would sometimes go past a secret and not be able to get back to it later, which was annoying (I got all but 2 doomguy collectibles.... grrrr!)

Bosses were not bad, and didn't rely on annoying environmental puzzles to figure out, just keep firing and learn the bosses attack patterns so you can avoid them. Hopefully we'll see some of them cropping up as regular enemies if id makes a sequel (I hope they will!)

By the way, I don't know if anyone else noticed this, but it seemed that when I staggered an enemy, the enemy was vulnerable to glory kills, but I couldn't seem to kill them with normal weapons at all, or it was very hard. I noticed this in particular with cacodemons, because they would often be out of reach, so I'd try to finish them off with regular weapons and it just wasn't happening. VERY annoying, but maybe it was a bug, or maybe it was because I had a rune that made it easier to stagger the enemies, so in actual fact they had a ton more health than I though. Anyone know if they regenerate health after recovering if you don't glory kill them? 
Also... 
*more enemies active at once CHECK!
*better, more satisfying weapons CHECK!
*COOP < most important thing Yes, but only in snapmap levels
*larger environments CHECK!
*more evilness CHECK!
*more varied environments CHECK!
*better level design CHECK!
*no cutscenes Well, there are no out of helmet cutscenes.
*heavier monsters used early on CHECK!
*no shitty zombie commandos that can do somersaults and backflip behind cover. I don't mind the mutant ones with whip arms etc. but the regular z-sector ones were so annoying and not fun to fight. CHECK!
*better AI on the more significant hellspawn creatures. CHECK!
*mutant owl neck syndrome toned down CHECK!
*monsters have finishing moves when they kill you, like in the first doom 3 leaked shakycam footage where the hell-knight eats the player's head. That kind of thing. CHECK! Kinda rare to see though
*the ability to use a flashlight and proper gun at the same time. N/A
* No shit story involving an evil scientist. Hmmm... It's still better than Doom 3's
* Don't give it to Raven to develop. CHECK!
* Properly fucking visceral weapons. CHECK!

Overall, id has done a great job of checking off items on my list. 
@than 
Enemies do recover health if you dont' finish them in the glory kill state, they aren't harder to finish in the staggered state though, they should drop fairly easily. 
Enjoying It So Far Playing On UV 
The arch-vile character is a huge pain in the arse when you leave it alive long enough. Currently in an area with a gore nest that spawns in like 3 barons, 2 mancubus an arch vile and a fuck ton of imps. It does give you the berserk powerup though.

It's taken a while for the game to get truly challenging, I'm about 7 hours into the campaign. Enjoying it so far, the hell levels are super sweet.

Some of the sound design is still a bit shit IMO, I got an upgraded minigun that makes next to zero noise compared to the non-upgraded version. The monsters make nice ambient noises but don't stand apart from each other in combat.
Also the music ranges from awesome ambience, to really shitty canned rock music and some very out-of-place orchestral stuff IMO in the hell maps. 
Music 
Did anyone notice a variety of Doom tracks make a return as part of some of the tracks in the new Doom? There are a couple of ambient parts that very clearly borrow from the old music, and one or two of the rock tracks are also built off old riffs.

For anyone interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua-f0ypVbPA 
 
The E1M2 "remix" in the background at 2:53 is my favorite. 
Djent 
Not really surprised that the soundtrack is djent/electronic, as it was heading in this direction as early as Quake, but I would've highly preferred an actual true metal soundtrack like Doom 1/2 (yes I know it was midi and not real metal, but the riffs are.) 
 
What the hell are you smoking? Quake's soundtrack is nothing like djent. It's industrial/drone/dark ambient with track 1 being the only track containing anything remotely metal sounding.

Quake 2's soundtrack is the only one that took a more or less metal direction, with perhaps Quake 4 though I can't be arsed to remember its soundtrack. 
 
Yeah track 1 in Quake was electronic. I guess what I meant was that starting with Quake 2 (and to a large extent in Quake 3) iD software started embracing the whole industrial/gothic/matrix sounding vibes. It worked great for those titles and I guess I'm just generalizing but to me it doesn't seem like what I'd envision a Doom title's soundtrack to be. Just my opinion 
 
* Don't give it to Raven to develop. CHECK!

The evil genie granted us Certain Affinity instead. 
Certain Affinity 
made a pigs ear of the multiplayer IMO. It feels far less like Doom than the singleplayer. 
Played It A Bit 
It's fun, but the Arenas are a bit annoying sometimes. Levels are nice. Engine runs smooth as butter on my iMac.

Didn't deserve all the shit it got pre release at all. I hope a few people hang their heads in shame now. 
Sleeps 
I was definitely one of the outspoken ones, I had played the alpha and the 2 betas and didn't enjoy them. I suspect those are still representative of the online experience.

After playing 30 minutes on the first map I pretty much wondered why the hell that wasn't the demo. Give people level one, that's essentially what Quake 2 did. I would have pre-ordered it or bought the special edition! 
Opinions 
the purpose of the doom thread was to discuss a game that hadn't been released yet and share opinions based on the information that was available at the time. everyone has an opinions and sometimes they're just plain shitty, it's the nature of things. No one should be ashamed of that.

That said, I ragged pretty hard on some things for a moment. I'm happy to eat my words, I'm having a ton of fun with this game! Beat it last night and I'm currently re-running some missions to find the 1-2 secrets I missed. Really fun, really happy with the game. 
Killpixel 
Roughly how long is the SP game? 
Ok 
finished it, and i'd say this is the best shooter of modern times ever. everything in this game is perfect, especially sound design.

i'm doom cultist now. 
Kinn 
If you want to absolutely 100% everything on ultra-violent it'll be ~15 hours, maybe more.

During my first run I skipped any non-progression related secrets (e.g. secrets that didn't contain elite guards, argent energy, bots, etc.) and that took about 12-13 hours. 
 
The good idea with quake 1 was giving a serious sound artist carte blanche to create a coherent sound and music "vision".

Dunno about doom4 havent played yet but I doubt thats the case there 
Draqu On FinnsRuns 
Ultraviolence, 5hrs and some.

https://www.twitch.tv/draqu_/v/66516486

No deaths either. Wonder what the devs say about him, he wades through in a special fashion.

Haven't looked at the whole run, as i don't want to spoil myself, but the first 45 minutes gave a good glimpse of what is doable.

This new DOOM is lovely, SP perspective. 
Killpixel 
Ok that's not a bad hourage for a game of this type in this day and age I guess. 
Yeah 
My main gripe with the game is that if felt a bit, well, short (that's what she said). I suppose that could be a good sign, depending on how you look at it. 
 
Doom (1993) on LGR.

This guy does great reviews, been watching them since he had but a handful of subs. 
MFX 
You meant ultra-nightmare. holy shit. he did it. 
Right 
ultra NM. 
Ok 
/me goes to buy a new videocard cuz I wanna play this game 
So 
no?
nobody playing on console? 
Some Do 
but they can't use keyboards to answer you here...

(what a bad joke, i know, i know...) 
I Was A Believer.... 
and predicted here that it would good. So I'm happy I was right :)

Can't wait for the hell modules to be added to SnapMap. 
Doom4 SP Seems To Be Good But 
SnapMap on the other hand seems too limited to allow us true customization of the game, at least when it comes to make stuff like MegaWADs, new textures, new guns, new items, and new monsters.
Maybe they could update it in the long run. 
 
I've only played the PS4 version. Does the PC version have any movement features which allow you to gain speed or momentum like there were in all of the Quake titles? Strafe jumping, bunnyhopping, circle jumps, etc 
I Heard There Was A BH Mutator For MP 
 
 
So...has the player movement speed been whopped up since the closed beta? Watching gameplay videos, the player seems to be spanking along at a fair old wallop. 
Kinn 
Surprisingly, SP has comfortable speed.
As for MP... No. It is still a turtlefest.
Available FOV was increased to 130 (which looks like ~110 in q3/QL), advanced graphic settings unlocked, few more maps/modes and guns maybe... don't remember which was available in beta.
As for gameplay itself it remains unchanged. 
 
Speed 
speed is OK in SP. If you pick up haste it is very fast especially - almost like the original games. 
 
Options 
I don't have the game, but is there an option to turn off that shiny glowy overlay on items and stuff? 
 
You can't disable the item glow. But you can and should disable things like glory kill highlighting, boss health bar and mission markers. It's also possible to disable interaction prompts. 
Right 
Yeah glory kill highlights are going straight off. Maybe mission markers too. 
Wait 
we have a map screen, so yeah HUD mission markers are going off too obviously. 
Just Play It 
 
From The Credits 
Lead Tools Programmer
Darin McNeil


Most notably of Zerst�rer fame, where he did the majority of the QC. 
 
Just played czg's room. It made me realize there are no Arachnotrons in the game which makes it 0/10. 
You Know What ? 
I love the job done here, even though I didn't play it yet (just saw ingame videos, etc..) but for sure I'll buy it once I'll get a decent computer.

Now I am just wondering whether the same exercise would be possible with Quake... that would be awesome! 
 
Just Play It

alright Game Hitler, keep your hair on. 
+1 To Options 
As negke said, glory-kill highlights, interaction prompts, compass, combat rating, objective markers, etc. can all be disabled. item shimmer and shimmer/outline on certain things (skull switches, security key bodies, health stations, etc) can't be disabled. I turned both glory-kill highlights and interaction prompts off before even beginning the game (but left the others on because I'm a helpless nancy).

It's odd that glory-kill highlights are on by default. The mortal kombat-esque "dazed" animations are more than enough to convey to the player that the enemy is ready to have its head punched off. 
 
Anybeans, looks like my laptop won't run this, so no Doom for me. 
"It's Odd That Glory-kill Highlights Are On By Default" 
Generally speaking, having the noob friendly settings on by default, with the option to turn them off, makes more sense. People who don't like the hud/highlights will look for a way to turn them off in the settings, whereas people are less likely to look for options that give them more information in the menu. 
Indeed 
I suppose what I meant was that the dazed animations already are noob friendly which made default highlights seem odd. I dunno, maybe I'm just overestimating the average player. 
Spoilers. 
was I the only one that from the very first transmission went "Samuel Hayden - S.HAYDEN - SATAN" 
The Triumphant Throb Of An Engorged Epeen 
Ran through again on nightmare and had more fun this time around. It's not over the top, though it did offer a few "fuck this game" moments early on. Upgrades, secrets, etc. all have much more relevance at this difficulty, which is nice. UV seemed to peak then drop around halfway through, not so much the case with NM. 
#53 
Doom 4 Vs Quake 1 
So is it as fun as ol Quake, the tried and true? 
Not Really Comparable 
 
Errr 20 Years Different Qmaster. 
 
My Brother 
They got my money for that piece of shit Doom 3. Not gunna buy this one.

I wish they'd manage a Linux version... been ages since i wanted to play a new game. 
Not Really Comparable 
What do you mean?
Both have monsters, both have hellish and tech environments, both have secrets, both have big guns, both have fast gameplay.

So really, how does it compare gameplaywise (ignoring modern visuals difference). 
They're Not Really Comparable. 
 
Doom4 As Compaired To Quake 
Is it as fun? Depends, I thought it was more fun in some ways and less fun in others. Technically speaking, D4 is superior to Quake, no big surprise there.

Relative to player scale, you move about the same speed. However, D4 has more diversity in regards to environmental scale and non-arena spaces are generally tighter than quake, increasing your perceived player speed. Player start/stop speeds are tighter than quake's but D4 has less air control (this can be upgraded with runes).

Weapons are more diverse (quake weaponry was never something to write home about). However, true to doom II fashion, you can use the SSG 90% of the time no problem, even on NM.

Enemies are smarter, more interesting and less bullet-spongey than quake, so that's nice IMO. Player health/armor is much more 'swingy' than quake due to there being more simultaneous enemies and them hitting harder. Quake has a much more consistent ebb and flow of player health/armor. With D4 you could be rapin' right along at 200hp for the last 20 minutes then all of the sudden find yourself dead. You can be overwhelmed much more easily. Overall, D4 is more challenging and requires more consideration from the player.

D4 is a good, arcade shooter. It's a little more one-dimensional compared to quake because of the glorykill/health drop incentive to keep pushing forward. D4 is almost always cranked up to 11, which can become tiresome. There are a number of other small, but meaningful differences (like requiring input to activate door/lifts). I suggest giving the game a shot and discovering those yourself, I think you'll have a good time. 
Punctuation 
D4 is a good

*unnecessary pause*

arcade shooter.

Maybe if you read my posts in Christopher Walken's voice they will make more sense :P 
 
Qmaster your opinion on Quake is appalingly shallow HTH. 
Doom 4 / Quake Comparison 
qmaster - with doom 4 ur all like "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" and with quake its all like "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" hth 
*shrug* 
In all honesty, this DOOM game of which you speak looks incredibly high Spirited, as though I Kinn get killed easily. I czg rating is not possible as the gore is high. Still I vondur if it is as much fun and will build as long-lasting a community as Quake. I guess I'll Shambler on out to a store and buy it. Willem be sold out? Seems popular. Hope I can afford hrimtaxes they hike up nowadays. I'll stop worrying about which is better Than the other. I'll go Preach that Quake is awesome elsewhere, amd maybe add DOOM to the list of games I deem praiseworthy. 
You Qmastered That 
 
Doom Music Spectrogram 
Have you seen this ?

http://i.imgur.com/r4Ielsk.png

Mick Gordon has nice evil tough :E 
All Over The Trends. 
I guess it's legit? Pretty cool, good on 'em. 
 
Aphex Twin Inspired? 
 
The pentagram is also briefly shown in DOOM: Behind The Music Part 2

https://youtu.be/1g-7-dFXOUU

Mick Gordon seems really cool, although I play with the music turned off, so it's pearls before swine in my case. 
I Definitely Need To Obtain The Doom Soundtracks 
 
Biggest Turn Off.. 
It would be nice to see a Linux version as well, but that's life.

It's DOOM4, a supposed throwback remake of glory gaming days gone by and you can't play the main campaign CO-OP?!? That's a no no buy for me.

That's really the only main reason I haven't rushed out to buy it although I'm really not the type to rush or preorder anything.

Definitely something to buy during a future Steam sale some day. 
 
Ah yes, with its lack of scripted events etc, what the fuck was the excuse to leave out SP campaign CO-OP ? 
Wait...What!!!???!!?! 
No coop??? 
EXACTLY Killes! 
Qmaster Snapcrap co-op only... WTF! Seems like a major oversight for a Doom game.

I bet it can do it, but it's turned off in the engine so they can tout that as a new feature for the DLC coming in the future. Ugh! 
 
DLC, season pass...Godfucking damn them all...I'm waiting for its 2nd "gone gold" before touching it, arr. 
 
Co-op requires you to have friends though 
#123 
Get a proper name and insult then, you coward. 
 
List of people called onetruepurple who are chill dudes:

[no entries] 
 
Lack of coop was most likely due to performance constraints.

SnapMap shows that the game can only have 12 enemies simultaneously, which is a low number. Adding more players would force the game to lower the number of simultaneous enemies even more.

At least the number of enemies is higher than in vanilla Doom 3 (which only supported up to 4 players in multiplayer, btw).

Remember that this game isn't purely a classic Doom remake, it's a mix of classic Doom with Doom 3 (plus some new stuff). Features inspired by Doom 3, like the fully real-time lighting, does bring some constraints. 
Also 
The 12-active-enemies limit was probably the reason for the arena lockdown mechanics. The player must kill the demons for the engine to free some slots for spawning monsters in other areas. 
Co-op In Single Player Games 
I never quite understood the appeal. Something like L4D or Vermintide that is specifically designing for co-op makes sense and is really fun. But running through levels designed for SP with someone else is just... boring and clunky.

I think in order for D4 to make that work it would need a different campaign designed specifically for co-op, perhaps with specific new mechanics. I don't think you can hold it against id for not providing that. 
 
Bought it yesterday for Xbox One.

1) It's the same story format as all previous ones: one guy against a whole army from Hell. Where does co-op even fit there?

2) Glory kills. OMG. GLORY KILLS. So. Satisfying. >:)

3) Any tips on fragging efficiently the shield guys? Anyone? I'm dying (literally) to know... 
Yamon 
Offhand grenade thrown slightly behind them, plasma gun alt fire stun work well for those dudes. 
 
Yah. Shotgun-grenade or rocket behind them also works peachy. Indirect fire in general. 
TWELVE!! 
So...no horde combat? 
LOL! 
NO! 
 
Not just no horde combat, but also no active and roaming monsters. Everything is self-contained, and it is also why any time there is a sequence break in a speedrun, the level is suddenly empty, because the person missed a spawn trigger. They do what they can to mask it, but most everything is locked down and delivered in measured doses. The cost of that visual fidelity at 60fps on the Xbox One and PS4. And then they designed an upgrade cycle akin to the recent Shadow Warrior to fit in with it.

The only time I can think of where they aren't following that limit is 14-15 Possessed after you pick up the BFG. It's a money shot and a demo room. Otherwise, twelve monsters at a time, with intensity coming from ramping up the monster type. You won't get an equivalent to Doom's flood of pinkies, or sprinting across a risky area to an objective, waking up dozens of monsters, and having them roam the level looking for you until you finish it. You get small inconsequential groups, or hallways with them before you, or an arena. 
 
Also, the shield guys are quite slow to turn, so you can get behind them and unload a double barrelled shotgun before they have time to get behind their shields. 
 
And also, the remote detonation upgrade for the rocket launcher is perfect as you can detonate the rocket when it's just behind them. 
E3 News 
So they managed to make me completely uninterested in the new Quake, but the upcoming changes to Doom 4 will probably get me to buy the game. 
 
What changes? 
Changes 
More game modes in multiplayer (including traditional deathmatch without stupid "loadouts"), Hell tileset and additional doodads in Snapmap, etc 
 
Classic DM and improved snapmap stuff (including Hell) seems like one of the better things in bethesdas conference. Shame we didnt get more Doom SP 
Tried Playing The Demo 
Can confirm my laptop can only run this at 10/5 fps with constant slowdown at the lowest settings, and mouse smoothing is so fucking wierd I can still feel it now.
I actually have a PC with a new graphic card, but it's been sitting here for two years because my power core isn't powerful enough to withstand it. I need one that goes either 800V or 850V.
Not that I need to upgrade that much since I rarely play games anymore (and the most recent game I played was Bioshock 2, on said PC but without the shiny "new" graphic card), and even less for D44m. I only wanted to check it out because hey free sample why not 
You Are Imagining Things 
First, it's a PSU, not a "power core".
Second, it's watts, not volts.

Third, you don't need anything even remotely close to 700W (let alone more then that) unless you have at least 2 or more videocards in SLI mode. 
Also Tried The Demo 
Not sure why they didn't have one in the first place!

Wow, great impression! Super fun and I am definitely purchasing it during the Steam Summer Sale. 
 
Interesting. The Xbox One version runs flawlessly, and remember that is a dumbed down Windows 10 on rather old hardware... Maybe there are other reasons for the framerate drop down. 
Well It's A 2013 Laptop Not Really Designed To Run Modern Games 
UT3 runs kind of okay-ish with small framedrops there and there and the thing kind of heats up when I run it, making my room feel like a giant toaster.
Maybe it's not a good unit of mesurement but I'll take that as a "it can run 7th gen game okay but don't think about going further than that" 
Well 
what actually is it? 
I Used My Laptop For Running D44M 
While my PC is gathering dust because I need a new PSU to support that graphic card I was given to, which has been collecting dust ever since I got it 2 years ago. 
Co-op 
Is interesting only when the two or more players do not start the map from the same location, but join later I the map for a final boss or horde fight

Else it is pointless 
 
Interesting. The Xbox One version runs flawlessly, and remember that is a dumbed down Windows 10 on rather old hardware...

Console vs PC API overhead. Lack of direct access to hardware on PCs. Easier to optimize for consoles because all XB1s have the same hardware so an optimization for one XB1 will hold good for all of them; likewise with PS4; definitely not the case for PC.

You just can't do a meaningful comparison between consoles and PCs if all you look at is hardware generations, clock speeds, etc. Consoles are just able to get more out of weaker hardware than PCs.

The Vulkan version, when/if it ships, should resolve a lot of this. 
Okay So Played A Bit. 
+ plays very smoothly, proper fast action
+ mantling is really well done
+ the finishing moves are not annoying if you turn the indication off
+ amount of blood is good
+ intro to the game is nicely done
+ mars bit is great, feels like proper style

- I actually find the runspeed a bit high, it feels like I'm bouncing off walls a bit
- forced arenas are bland
- not seen many secrets
- insides are a bit over-coloured-lighting

It does feel a lot like what D3 should have been. So far. 
Okay So. 
I'm still feeling that if Doom3 had never existed, Id would have 100% credibility in the Doom franchise. This definitely seems to combine classic FPS gameplay with modern touches well.

I really appreciate the amount of inspiring outside sections they have in, definitely keeps it fresh. 
 
Doom 3's biggest problem is that it's called Doom 3. That's the kind of baggage you don't want to be carrying, had far too much to live up to. 
While This, So Far... 
...seems to wear it's "DOOM 2016 version" mantle with a certain amount of pride. 
It's Not Too Bad Is It 
Still didn't finish the last couple of levels, went back to playing Natural Selection 2... 
 
kind of disappointing finale I found. Somewhat abrupt, with some cool stuff not panning out, or only hinted at, perhaps for possible expansion packs. 
 
kind of disappointing finale I found. Somewhat abrupt, with some cool stuff not panning out, or only hinted at, perhaps for possible expansion packs. 
Monster Introductions 
I almost wet myself during Revenant and Summoner introductions. How fucking cool. 
Monster Introductions 
<MID GAME SPOILERS>

The Revenant was pretty awesome and I got pretty darned excited when I realised how large they are. The Baron of Hell was pretty crazy, as another two spawn just as the guts of the first are hitting the ground. Didn't see that coming.

I would have liked a few more monsters getting introduced after the Barons though, I don't remember much new after that... Lost Souls? Pinkies? Spectres I guess. 
 
They just announced an update that brings an option to make the guns centered. Now that's a nod to classic Doom I didn't expect. 
 
Looks a bit silly with the hand holding the guns though no.

What about campaign coop instead of some silly arse feature like that ? 
Do You Really Think IdTech6 Can Handle More Players WITH Monsters? 
 
Daya 
I guess simple math can apply here

+N player leads to -N monster...

and you're safe :P 
I'm Damn Sure Carmack Would Of Had Campaign Co-op In THERE!! 
..but sadly he's a quitter... 
More Like 
He wanted to get into a new field he could challenge himself with, since video game engines don't fulfill his desire for challenge anymore. 
 
I'm damn sure that Carmack has had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with gameplay design since Q3A time. Whether or not he was still with ID is irrelevant. 
#163 
Replace "Carmack" with "Romero" and I agree. 
Carmack Is A Quitter? 
The CEO of Oculus Rift is a quitter? Need I remind you that Romero was the one quitting after Quake? 
 
Carmack prefers to be on the cutting edge of research.

In the 90s, cutting-edge research meant things like realtime 3d graphics. This was cool, and Carmack was the man who could make this happen.

Then after quake it meant "real-time lighting everywhere", which was kind of cool but constrained the type of game you could make (corridor game that takes place in very dark environments).

Then it meant "unique textures everywhere", which was kinda cool as long as you have a bajillion gigs of storage space and a bajillion artists to place unique scratches on each brick, and players that are paying enough attention to notice and appreciate it. The law of diminishing returns is kicking in quite a bit now though.

I think it's best for id to just crack on and make games using what we have, instead of waiting for Carmack to come up with the next big tech innovation. 
LOL! 
My last comment was a total joke, but I liked the responses. (^_-) 
Just Finished 
*Possible Spoilers*

Purchased during the steam summer sale (40% off!)

Beat the game on UV and wow was that a good time! Haven't had this much fun with a game in a while. Combat was visceral and always satisfying, rune challenges are a nice intermission from the regular gameplay and exploration was actually pretty enjoyable as well!

One of my largest complaints with DOOM 3 was the lack of Hell based levels. There really is only one, and while it was superb it was just too much of a tease! Here, we have FOUR levels set in Hell and they are quite beefy at that! Favorite part of the game would be Titan's Realm/Necropolis as this is the largest batch of Hell you get to play in.

Still, I can appreciate the VEGA level due to the sharp change in base setting (Arctic Base).

Haven't played multiplayer yet and just dabbed into Snapmap which seems like a great concept but poorly executed.

Going to give Nightmare a spin without using the Rich get richer rune. (Bit OP if you ask me.)

If anyone was on the fence about 2016 DOOM, I fully recommended it...even at the full price! 
I Don't Know 
what's gotten into me, but I am actually starting to really like Doom multiplayer (playing on PS4), with the expected patch that is supposed to bring back classic deathmatch, it's going to be a great shooter. 
Finished It. 
Final arena was kinda boring - didn't really ramp up the cool Hell style, but the final boss was tolerable, and the ending was pretty neat enough.

Overall, really cool game. The action is solid, the blend of modern FPS tricks with classic Doom homages is good, and the designs and atmospheres are cool, I really like the amount of cool scenes.

As a Doom reboot, it's what Doom3 always should have been. It's a bit of a compromise but it just works well, and should restore some faith in id and this style of FPS gaming.

Mission pack hype now! 
 
"and should restore some faith in id and this style of FPS gaming"...
...
Quake Champions 
So?? 
That's an irrelevancy to anyone and everyone. Doom shows they - and hopefully others - can still do it. 
 
I'd hold fire on dismissing Quake Champions as potentially crap. Lots of people dismissed Doom 4 as crap, right up to release, and it was only after people actually played it that they realised it wasn't. There's threads here containing rants that turned out to be flat out wrong. One could end up looking rather silly.

That doesn't mean it'll be great; let's not exclude the middle. Willits doesn't exactly have a great recent track record either. But let's just be cautious about declaring that it's going to suck, eh? 
 
I'm mostly just wondering/worrying whether id will do much on the game or whether it will be all Saber Interactive. 
Well... 
Quake Champions is being marketed as a multiplayer shooter, that alone is reason enough to ignore it for most people here, who just don't care much about that. 
Mod Support 
It'll be very interesting to see what kind of mod support QC has. Every Quake title (excluding 4 I suppose) has flourished due to its modding scene and I really hope QC ships with something more substantial than SnapMap.

Time will tell I suppose :) 
 
oh god, is QC really the abrieviation we're going with here? QW was annoying enough, but at least that usually got an ET prefix! 
Well What Would You Suggest Lol? 
 
 
Wait. QW = Quake World or (Enemy Territory : ) Quake Wars? 
QCMOBAFPS2017 
Has a nice ring to it. 
Anyway, Killes Is Mostly Right About QCMOBAFPS2017 
It does look unspeakably, astronomically awful in any described or potential aspect. If someone had announced it as an April Fool's, you'd think it was too OTT garbage to be a good joke....let alone it actually being a serious thing. And the whole thrust of the latest Willits video completely misses the point of a bog-standard MPFPS like Q3A/Live, let alone any of the other Quakes that were actual proper games. No even Q3A was not in the slightest bit about the arbitrary character models you stocked the fucking thing with. Champions? Wankpions. 
So, Today.. 
Steam's just like 'I'm gonna download and install this 12GB DOOM patch. Hope you weren't planning on streaming any video's when you got home from work...'. I guess I shouldn't complain but I don't use Snapmap or the multiplayer component of 'DOOM'. 
Video Is 
a grammar nazi 
Good Call. 
Auto-updates disabled now. 
Yeah Same Here 
Fuckers. 
The Patch 
is 14,07gb on PS4, heh 
Two New Multiplayer Modes 
neither of which is deathmatch. neat.

the constant crash to desktop is fixed now, so that's sweet. big gold star from me. 
Warren Huart Interviews Mick Gordon 
Warren Huart is an awesome producer with a great channel that's really worth checking out if you're into audio production.

the interview 
All-Inclusive Safe-Space Simulator 2016 
a.k.a. Doom 2016 Multiplayer

I've been sick and stuck at home the past week and decided to give multiplayer a real go with as much of an open mind as I could muster. Hell, I even paid $15 for the emaciated DLC "Unto the Evil" before diving in. BIG FUCKING MISTAKE. After several days of hardcore playtime I have concluded that, in its current state, the Doom 2016 multiplayer is complete fucking shit.

Who exactly is going to be playing this a year from now? The target demo is going to hit puberty soon and will move on to something else. The next generation of plebs aren't going to play it as they'll be busy with the next big bubblegum shooter queefed out by some other corporate whore.

As I sit in a chatless lobby perusing generic armor sets while waiting for my allotment of xXxAnimeKid2003xXxes to carry all game long, or as I dominate the opposing team with over-fucking-powered demon runes and BFGs, I can help but sit back and marvel at what a sad fucking joke this game is.

Nice work, way to drop the fucking ball.

Time for me to uninstall and go back to being apathetic. Maybe I'll give it another go when the $15 deathmatch DLC comes out.

/rant

P.S. I promise this is the last time I rez this thread.

P.S.S. Please excuse my language. 
Wait A Minute... 
Doom4 has multiplayer??

Oh wait, there was some menu option in between "Continue Campaign" and "Customise Options", wasn't there?? Can't remember what it was tho.... 
Q3DM17 In Doom 
Pretty impressive stuff, made with Snapmap -

https://www.doomworld.com/vb/snapmap/89967-hello-old-friend/ 
Free Update #3 
ID had ONE SIMPLE TASK to do to make Doom fans happy: not fuck up the Deathmatch mode and yet theyu managed to do precisely that - what the hell are Loadouts doing in it?! What did ID spend months of time on if not tweaking weapon pickup locations in all the current maps?!

And why do I _STILL_ have to first wait for singleplayer to load, then MORE WAITING for multiplayer to load, why is it still impossible to select the default start up mode?

Oh well, back to Paragon and Overwatch, I guess... 
194 
If you're using steam: make a shortcut to doom, import it as a none-steam game and rename it to "multiplayer" and set a launch option to launch in my mode. 
*MP, Not "my" 
 
Jago 
Are you not aware that id did NOT develop the multiplayer part? This was outsourced to a studio that worked on Halo and CoD. 
Wugwump 
Are you not aware ID took over/back the multiplayer part months ago? 
 
As a matter of fact, no, I wasn't. It's Mugwump with an M, BTW. I'll shut up now. 
"Killpixel Deathmatch" Mode Confirmed 
Every time you kill an opponent, a pixel in their monitor dies. 
That's Bad Pr 
Interesting idea though: each kill results in an increasing negative effect. Slowing speed, enlarged head, decreasing visibilty, etc. Could be a fun casual mode. 
And The Winner Gets A BSoD 
 
 
Finally got round to playing it, enjoying the SP very much despite aforementioned shortcomings.

What about next DLC be "modability" eh ID ? 
 
By the way I have a sad and icky feeling that modding was not made possible simply due to it not working out with the way the copy protection used for the game (denuvo) works :(

...

but now its finally cracked anyways they can drop the pretense and make it moddable eh ? :) 
Denuvo Is Cracked?!? 
WOOHOO!!!!! When did this happen? I haven't heard of it. 
Denuvo Cracked... 
Good. Maybe the game publishers will stop using it. No, never mind. Forget I said that. Games having DRM saves me a lot of money. 
Dicknouveau 
Well I am not sure if its a bunch of workarounds or a proper crack...all I know is several Denuvo games are playable sans commercial transaction, including Doom4. 
Some More Info On Wiki 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denuvo
Check the August 2016 paragraph. 
 
Sorry, I'm on my phone. You can delete the "m" from the link. 
 
Maybe Doom4 is not as unmoddable as thought ?
https://www.reddit.com/r/DOOM2016Mods/comments/4ni6at/basic_guide_on_getting_started/

At least there are editable values which seems to be all thats really necessary to make a ammo/health balanced stagger free mod.
The stagger removal is already done as an example there, all that's needed is tweaking of health/ammo/damage to make up for the low number of health and ammo pickups. 
Bah, Mods Do Not Work Since Vulkan Update 
 
 
Sometime the worst part of the executions is it lowers/mutes the music :(

I don't need a break fucktards, bring it on!! 
Agreed: MODS? 
What I'm curious about is about a mod and that will take or disable that feature (the pi�ata system) what are the possibility of MODS without a software development kit possibly by modifying the XML files. I hate you doom I upgraded my PC for you and you did me dirty. I have more fun playing brutal doom 2 on my custom build maps that this cold sore of a Doom 2016. 
Yeah Doom 4 Was Pretty Ace Really.... 
....just waiting for the SP DLC. 
Also Waiting 
Yes please. 
Fixed AO Would Be Nice Too 
 
Doom 4 Was Super Fucking Solid 
And about as close as I think we can expect to get to the classic shit we all supposedly crave in this current market....

SP DLC will be a must-buy for me. 
 
I am enjoying it right now, although waaay too easy on UV.
It will go beyond what we can expect once(if) they unlock full modding possibilities on PC.

Already someone finding a way for the simple value editing modding to work again since last updates would make be cool. 
New Doom Doc Part 3 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0nOsuaPDeg

Pretty neat little doc IMO, not super insightful but cool.

side note: kevin cloud seems like a humble guy. in every interview I've seen with him he's owning up to poor decisions or mistakes he's made (doom3 making of and part 2 of this doc). It appears that the leaked 'call of doom' stuff was cloud's vision for the game at the time. 
Doom Documentary 
is a good little series. I wish we could get more of this stuff, it's fascinating to get insight into the games industry.

Also I think this documentary has given me a lot of hope for id's future. I really can't wait to see their next game. 
Same Here 
in addition, I'd like to see more in-depth/technical behind the scenes stuff. It seems making-ofs are approached as more of a marketing tool these days, so they can be a bit shallow sometimes. 
Quake Photo Mode? 
Okay I have not tried Doom's photo mode but I was wondering if something like this could be done in a source port? Would be great to re-cam demos and grab screenshots with different lense options and depth of field tweaks. I know you can do this is Photoshop but this would be so amazing in Quake.

Article on photo mode

YT vid 
Quake Photo Mode 
I checked the link you posted, dumptruck, and found the photo mode of Doom 4 seems to be about freezing everything in the game world to a halt or at least to slow motion, whiling keeping the player unaffected. If this is what you want in Quake, then as far as I know, Darkplaces engine already support a similar effect. A console command (forget which, sorry! Please check its readme or manual or whatever) can be used to reduce time lapse of game world into slow motion or suspended animation, while player is still free to roam around. Also Darkplaces supports DOF or other fancy eye-candies. 
 
Fitzquake/MarkV/QS have:
"sv_freezenonclients 1" -- freeze everything but the player
"host_timescale 0.1" -- 10% speed 
Darkplaces Command Is The Same To Freeze 
Darkplaces has:
"sv_freezenonclients 1" //freeze everything but the player
"slomo 1" // 1 full speed, less than 1 is slower, more than 1 is faster. So 0.5 would be half the speed of Quake, 2 would double the speed, etc. 
@Kingold FYI 
There is one awesome find command that's good to remember if you can't remember the exact name of a cvar or command in Darkplaces: "apropos"

Type that command in the console followed by a partial word, letter combo, number, or any combination and it will return all possible matches in any cvar, command or their description. 
Thanks XaGe 
For the info. Honestly never heard of it before. There are always something new to learn. 
All DP Commands And Cvars Are Listed In The Readme 
 
Wished Granted I Guess! 
@Kingold - awesome info thanks.

@xaGe That's brilliant

@ericw cool that works

@mugwump I don't use DP since I discovered QS but will take a look for sure 
 
My comment was more a reply to xaGe & Kingold but sure, you can take a look. 
 
DLC 3 map Bloodfll map looks awesome!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG4BAVDe6Wg 
That Is Some Goofy Looking Shit 
This reminds me of a level in Ocarina of Time: Inside Jabu Jabu's Belly. I have started that game about 10x never made it thru. 
Gah What The Christ 
Yeah it's like they've teleported into a Psychonauts level or something.... 
 
Psychonauts level

My thoughts exactly. 
Doom Style Photo Mode 
With a combination of console commands from #225 and Photoshop it's sort of close.

http://imgur.com/l0amwnU 
Awesome Is Definitely NOT The Word. 
But hey, cartoony gimmicky maps in multiplayer, whatever, fine.

It's still not the SP mission pack I'm looking for... 
Why Is It So Pink And Green? 
 
 
Finally Started Playing This 
And yes, roger me with a medium-sized yacht if this isn't the best FPS game in christ-knows-how-many years. Seriously can't get over how we managed to get a game made this well in 2016. There is hope for the future after all!

Random remarks:

- Playing on XBone, for what it's worth
- Level design is glorious - so much largeness, exploration, non-linearity, and complex multi-levelled combat spaces.
- The "controversial" combat mechanics are balanced well, and add depth, as do all the bazillion ways you can pimp out your weapons and abilities and whatnot.
- hunting down all the upgrades is super-fun (the map shows them but more often than not, it still takes a decent bit of nouse to find them).
- I am mournfully, eternally shite at the rune challenges it would seem - only got one so far (the first one)
- Great to seem Doom 3's DNA in a lot of the visual design.
- The game feels incredibly replayable. Still on my first playthrough but I can see myself dipping back into this for a long time. 
It Is Good 
and it has no right to be. 
Nice One Kinn. 
It is definitely good eh. Not perfect but a real reassuring demonstration that you can blend old action with new presentation (and the little tweaks and upgrades don't get in the way). 
Forgot To Mention 
The platformy movement abilities of the player add so much - double jumping, ledge grab/climb... environments make great use of it too. Gonna feel so gimpy going back to an FPS that doesn't have this stuff.

Only thing I'm not really enjoying are the boss fights. Would have preferred these to use the environment more - not a fan of the Mortal Kombat small flat arena type setups. 
Oh And 
"I think the reason the platforming is good is because it is based on where you are looking, as opposed to your invisible feet."

Nailed it.

(quote from some random person on a forum) 
#239 
...
"- Playing on XBone, for what it's worth "


You the fuck what...what is wrong with you ?

Heh, "I am mournfully, eternally shite at the rune challenges it would seem - only got one so far (the first one)"

No fucking shit sherlock.

You fuck is sitting on a fucking PC to type in this forum yet you play Doom's reincarnation on a fucking console with gamepad.

Jeeeesus am I ever reading one of your reviews again... 
Killes 
No-one here likes you. No-one here likes your posts, and no-one here is going to ever agree with you. 
Oh And 
Not that I want to spend any more seconds of my life interacting with such an unhinged social retard such as yourself, but I should probably add that I have all but two of the rune challenges now, because I actually went back and replayed them. 
Jesus Killes 
who gives a shit if he's playing on Xbone? It's a perfectly fine way of playing the game. 
Btw... Guys... 
Doom 1 and 2 is fucking good on X360. They should port Brutal Doom mod too. 
I Like Killes! 
 
 
Ladies, please. We have a beef thread for this.

Also doom 1 & 2 got 360 ports? I'm guessing it's kinda like that Quake 2 port when it comes to availability... 
I See Killes' Point 
Never seen anybody with a controller play a FPS that was mechanically challenging and looking like he'd be able to compete with a mouse player.

Quake Tournaments with gamepads? Not really.

So if I'm into that kind of gameplay, anybody who just told me "this is a great game in that style" and "I played it with a gamepad" at the same time has a high probability to be full of shit. 
I Can Actually Imagine That 
for anything but movement, a (very) high-quality gamepad (i.e. joystick) could be on par. 
 
 
Quake Tournaments with gamepads could easily be a reality if Quake's gameplay was as "press the smash brain button to kill" as Doom 2016's singleplayer seems to be.

I'm pretty sure Killes is just angry because Killes is upset with id/bethesda/zenimax for ever releasing the game on consoles in the first place. PC Master Race and all that, y'know? 
 
"press the smash brain button to kill" as Doom 2016's singleplayer seems to be.

You do realise that you have to shoot the monsters quite a bit before they enter that state? As in, just as much normal shooting - if not more - than as in previous id SP games?

To be honest, I tend to forget how closed-minded this forum is when it comes to anything in the gaming world that's not exclusively for PC gamers, so this is probably as good a time as any for me to bow out. Cheers chaps! 
#250 
Lol. I was trying to fuel flame inside Killes.

Xbox Doom ports are ok though:
Doom
Doom 2 + "No Rest for the Living"

And they have split screen up to 4 players, co-op and multiplayer, something that Fifth would like to see in Quake. 
Bowing Out Before The Curtain Falls 
Obviously you have to shoot your enemies. But it's not exactly a precise art, is it? If it were it'd suck on consoles and well, it doesn't... So..?

Think of it in a similar way to how the autoaim in DOOM helped out for keyboard and (presumably) console player's. 
Ok One Last Encore But That's It For Reals... 
There's an aim assist feature. It's subtle as hell - a lot more subtle than in games like CoD - but you can also turn it off in the options menu. Guess what? I turn it off - like I always do in these games - because I've been playing FPS games (and at least for some of my career, developing them) on consoles for over 15 years, and I actually prefer that to mouse&keyboard. Even when on PC, I'll plug in a gamepad if it supports it. Dunno if you know that I've always been pushing for gamepad support in the Quakespasm / MarkV threads etc.

Anyway of course you know best. You're a PC gamer and that's the only thing that matters. A proud-chested, goose-stepping member of the Master Race, and you can just have whatever sneering assumptions and myopic opinions you like, and you know they are always going to be better than those of console kiddie bedwetters such as myself.

/ drops mic 
 
Believe it or not, when I first started playing Doom (downloaded demo from AOL which took all day), I used a Thrustmaster joystick. I just couldn't get the hang of using the mouse.

Eventually, I bought a gamepad and played many hundreds of custom Doom and Doom 2 maps that way.

I didn't switch to using a mouse until Quake came out. 
 
fukken mlao, console boy logged out and everything, he must be serious

/ drops pants 
Killes Is Angry As Hell.... 
....because Killes.

Kinn might get an extra shiney bellend point for playing on a console, but then he gets an extra cuddly Kinn point for enjoying Doom4 and spreading the love about it. 
Awesome 
DOOM2016 is awesome in single player. Played it first time on medium just going forward not really looking for stuff. Replayed it again on ultraviolence, this time getting the challenges, secrets, etc.

One super-annoying thing I would say are the "point of no return" areas in some levels, like a door closes behind you or you fall down somewhere without the means of getting back - this limits the backtracking and in a lot of levels forces to replay them from the start to grab the stuff you missed and then was locked out of.

I would also love to see more monster varieties within one type - why is there two types of mancubus, but not others? 
 
"Requires Steam activation and broadband internet connection for Multiplayer and SnapMap"

I have a new video card and should be able to play this game now. I frequently see it on sale for $20, but I'm having a hard time finding out what (if any) DRM is used. Apparently Denuvo was removed.

I don't mind activating and downloading through Steam, but after that Steam can be shut down?

I probably would never bother with it, but why is internet required for Snapmap? 
@kinn 
I'm intrigued, never seen that before for FPSs. Do you have videos/demos handy? 
Megaman 
What bit are you referring to? 
Prefering The Gamepad :-) 
And no, not trolling. I ask because I respect your opinion a lot. 
 
I wish I had a decent computer to play on but can't afford it. I was gifted an xbox one so played on that. Lots of fun on lower difficulties but I honestly can't aim for shit with gamepads compared to mouse. I don't understand how people do it. So I struggle and don't have much fun in higher difficulty levels, with this game and others. 
 
I probably would never bother with it, but why is internet required for Snapmap?

Uploading and downloading maps I would expect.

I don't know the exact details of this, but I am aware that there is an online maps gallery that you can browse, vote on, submit maps to, and stuff like that.

Is participation in the gallery mandatory if you're going to use Snapmap at all? Don't know. 
Megaman 
ah right. Well, there will be a ton of Doom4 youtube videos of xbone / ps4 players - and maybe some of those players will be good, I dunno. 
Oh And I Forgot To Say Megaman 
Thanks for the compliment :) 
Spazpad 
Is it not time for PC/console multiplatform games to offer a mouse/keyboard(pad) peripheral ?
For MP balance simply force console mouse peripheral users onto PC MP servers and keep regular console gamepad servers as is?

Consoles are a fucking disease. I don"t even see this impacting their revenue, rather boost it.

Could definately harm PC sales of certain games though. 
See This Is Why Killes Is Worth It. 
"Consoles are a fucking disease. " 
Some Of Us 
have become console peasants willfully. Doom4 on PS4 Pro rocks. 
Jago You Are A Dick. 
I hope you've got a marble encased controlled with gold inlaid keys for that bollox. 
The Unwashed Masses 
might not have access to video games if it wasn't for consoles.

... 
Whatever 
I may be unwashed but my kids are washed and fed and concomitantly I don't have an approved gaming rig. 
 
See, why deprive people of mouse and keyboard gaming goodness.

What the fuck is wrong with setting a ps4 on a desk with a HDMI cable to a monitor and m+k, if one wishes to ?

Fucking disease, again. 
Killes. 
Probably having fuck all chance to get key rebinds working??

Convince me otherwise and I will PS4+M+KB the shit out of Bloodborne (until I ragequit) and HZD and more. 
 
Because that would defeat the purpose of a console, specifically the casual/laid-back mode of gaming it provides, in the sense of being able to play anywhere in the room instead of being locked to a desk or desk-like setup. This is what most people want and most games support which makes additional m+k solutions undesirable financially as well as problematic for balance. They attempted it on the Dreamcast, but it didn't pick up for obvious reasons.

PC gamer butthurt aside, the problem is not with consoles in general, but about the fact that most games are produced for both platforms which, specifically in the case of first person shooters, requires them to be adjusted to gamepad controls which inevitably results in a (perceived/actual) simplification of gameplay/mechanics to varying degrees.

In the case of Doom 2016, it probably doesn't really matter. Not every FPS is, nor needs to be, all twitch reactions/skill shot-based. Though I do agree that the current trend seems to significantly lower the chances for 'delicate' FPS games like Stalker or CS - they come to mind as games that likely cannot exist on consoles the way they are. 
Also Console Exclusive BS Which Can Fuck Right Off. 
Hang on, if I got a PS4 with M+KB to play BB and HZD.....I'm part of the fucking problem. Gonna shit in a sealed bag and post it to Sony and get back to playing PC games instead. 
I Wonder... 
... if one can be arrested for sending excrements by mail. Probably that is settled by the terms and conditions of the post service and/or Sony. 
 
negke - bollox.

I do mean console K+B for Cross platform FPS's

There is no balance issue or defeating of the laid back mode so long as player bases are separated between M+KB and Gamepad players, platform independent even, all that matters is the input method there.

Nothing else need change to the status quo, only more player options with their hardware (or rather their rented hardware, disease I tell you) 
 
I don't play on consoles because of microsoft and sony. I cannot buy in to the walled off, closed eco-systems these control freak companies offer.

To me, this resembles the classic razor blade/razor concept. Send me my free razor and I will consider trying your blades. Wait. The razor is how much? Sorry, I pass.

I can't speak about sony because I stopped buying anything they offered nearly 15 years ago, but microsoft seems to want anything of mine that they can make a profit off of. Their status with me is now lower even than sony's.

But none of this has to do with Doom. Is there a console vs. pc thread? 
Idea ? 
Is there a console vs. pc thread?

I don't think so... so please create it ;) 
Plz No 
 
 
There's no way I would, I know very little about consoles. I haven't bought one since a Super Nintendo sometime around 1990 or 1991 I think. 
PS Forever... 
... got PS1 and PS2 and.... after that I switched to PC... and no I even do not have PC (plugged) anymore (still in box after house change..

Kids have a Wii... quite fun, even for FPS (tried CoD World at War), but lacks of "pixels"..

Tried X-box 1 once... (Halo..) been disappointed to be honest.. 
SnapMap 
So, has anyone ever made something with SnapMap that isn't a total joke graphics-wise? I am looking at screenshots and videos and I am struggling to find anything that looks better than very mediocre Quake maps of 10 years ago, let alone the good Quake maps of today. 
Update 6.66 
Fuck yes, finally! This update brings a number of improvements that were sorely needed. My favorite: practice mode. Finally, I can walk around the map alone and just admire the phenomenal art and level design. It's like Christmas. So yeah, that's what I'll be doing all afternoon.

Now if I can just get my hands on a noclip command for SP... 
!!!! 
Finally, I can walk around the map alone and just admire the phenomenal art and level design. It's like Christmas.

I've been wanting this since Doom 3 was released. Awesome news. 
Post A Reply:
Name:
Title:
Body:
message
question
exclamation
idea
flame
noflame
error
skull
beer
moon
pent
rocket
sheep
pacman
pig
cheese
worldcraft
gauntlet
crate
pitfall
pimp
smile
cool
sad
frown
oi
yay
tongue
evil
wink
neutral
q1
q2
q3
ut
hl
cs
doom
dkt
serious
cube
Website copyright © 2002-2017 John Fitzgibbons. All posts are copyright their respective authors.