I'm at work, can someone verify this is real? the readme says 12/2013, and there are no screenshots.
Yep, 4 Maps + Startmap
Didn't tried'em yet. Will in 5 min.
The startmap is very good !
The first map is excellent! This is already a major release. However, the map would be much better looking with a fog. There are some defects here and there (blinkering floor parts in some places). But really, add a fog !
I didn't played the other maps yet, but is seams to be a major release.
Everything After The Start And Map 1
feels like it was lifted entirely from their respective maps brush for brush. If I was CZG I'd feel a little mad tbh.
I may be wrong but that's how it feels. You should have gone for something like func mapjam 1.
Can You Please Post Pics?
Second And Third Maps...
also need a fog.
They're great complicated maps, very long to play. Geez, how am I supposed to find time to play all this !? I guess I just need to save the game and play a little bit each day, instead of trying to play the whole map in a single day.
The wood works are really great !
poked around first map, just seems like a loving tribute. derivative but still pretty high quality.
i doubt czg will be mad people have been ripping him off since like, numb nimbus
I did say the start and map 1 were fine.
The other maps have areas which are practically identical
Hmmm, Gotta Agree With Fifth
There's "homage" and then there's "open up someone else's .map file and just c'n'p most of it across"...
Are there any meaningful changes? Like progression or I dunno.
These is a good release, I dig it. It's like the Mr.Oizo remix of Honey.
The start map is a very cool piece of work, reminded me of Zer a little bit, and I think exploring that style further in some other map would be worthwhile!
First map is good. It's a bit odd for me to play through and see so many things that were like "oh this bit is inspired by this! cool!" and yet it was all connected together in a completely unexpected and original way.
It got a bit confusing towards the end where I was just wondering where the fuck I was supposed to be going, but then I just closed my brain and followed the arrows.
Second map was also cool, though it was even more obviously bits and pieces from honey, again assembled in a different way. And not even just straight copied pieces, but things that have clearly been rebuilt at a different scale.
Third map is where it gets weird. This is pretty much just saint.bsp, but it has been completely rebuilt from scratch? And there are small variations all over the place that keeps it just weird, unpredictable and uncanny. And it's super interesting to me because those variations introduce design motifs that I either actually were thinking about when I made the originals or I wish I had thought about. The overall effect is sorta unreal, and it's almost nauseating.
Then the fourth map appears and I'm like wtf is this. This is E1M5 with at first glance just some gameplay alterations? But then you move around and again there are small (and some large) things that have changed.
I was wondering what this map was doing in the release at all, but then I realized you can apply some sort of design narrative to the whole pack:
You start off in a completely fresh and new environment (start map), and then as you progress the world becomes more and more uncannily "familiar", and eventually regresses all the way back to the shareware episode you played in 1996. I'm not sure if that was intentional, but I thought it was a funny reading. IT SYMBOLIZES THE QUAKE COMMUNITY????
Overall I think this was a fab release and I am eager to see something more from you. (Something more original lmao jk gg)
Oh and consider me thoroughly flattered.
The "Nah" Was Directed At Kinn Btw
My Favourite Bit
In the third map the huge open area that has the silver key door and all the collapsed arches lying on the ground. I was doing a little bit of that in saint.bsp, but this implementation is a lot closer to what I was actually aiming for.
Gives me an excuse to replay Honey and then check this out!
This is what I was shooting for. I wanted to mimic CZG
with a bit of a twist to the maps, but to keep them close to the original authors ideas. I'm sorry I didn't have something more original, but I wanted to see if I was just wasting everyone's time or if I was going to get encouraging feed back. Looks like I'm going to making more maps from all the positive feed backs. Thanks again everyone. I'll start to com up with more A.S.A.P
Pete (gotshun) D.
Well If CZG Is Cool
then fair play.
Aside from the inspiration stuff I did feel like the actual maps could have done with a bit more brightness/contrast in lighting. I kind of missed the changing fog etc that added the extra atmosphere in Honey.
The pack itself felt much harder than Honey, I ended up using god mode through most of my playthrough (something I very rarely do).
Also I think a few more ambient sounds dotted around would have helped with the atmosphere.
Sorry I didn't record a demo, it was super late when I played it and I forgot.
Your a fine level designer FifthElephant and I greatly appreciate the feed back. I have played quite a few of your maps and very much enjoyed playing them. And I'm flattered that some of the greats actually played my maps and commented on them. I'll use all the input I got from you guys. Like I said, I'm new to this mapping thing. I started making maps when Ben Morris came out with Worldcraft but I stopped making maps a long time ago. I only started back when I seen Daz playing Honey, that's when the bug bit me again. Thanks again for your input.
P.S. Can you steer my in right direction on how to implement fog in MY levels? I got to agree, fog and ambient sounds do add to flavor.
I suspect you will have needed to use a custom prog file, like the one in Honey, in order to implement fog triggers. I'm not sure of a way to change this otherwise (my guess is Preach will come bounding in and work his dark magic and show us some new trick).
Ambient sounds is easier since they're straightforward entities, ambient_drip, ambient_suck_wind, ambient_swamp1, ambient_swamp2 etc.
Also, thanks for the kind words about my maps. I certainly wouldn't count myself amongst the greats though, I've only been releasing Q1 maps since 2013 and I'm still learning.
didn't notice that title there
this is pretty weird.
I'll be on a week long trip so won't have time to play this for a while.
Thanks czg for the pics. Your a great guy and so are the rest of you! Thanks again for the feed back and hope to hear from more of you. Btw I'm working on another map. This compliments Socks atmosphere but the level in completely original. It takes a little longer for me to produce maps due to the work thing!
Reminds Me Of Terracity
looks decent enough but I don't like the bland tedious colors :)
Okay So This Is A Strange One.
I played some of the maps but not all. I've already been through honey and saint a couple of times and they are big and complex enough that I don't need to do so again.
So let's get this right, you rebuilt some CZG maps from scratch, and rebuilt E1M5 from scratch, and also did a heavily CZG-inspired map of your own with the first one??
Secondly, you're obviously very good at mapping overall, so please go make some original maps using the quality demonstrated in this release!
Not meant to sound arsey. Genuine question....and genuine order to make more maps ;)
gotta check this out!
Just To Simply Say Thank You.
I thought making these maps would be something different. You gotta admit that czg makes some breath taking, outstanding maps for all of us to enjoy. Just to say thanks for all the hard work he puts into his creations.That's why!
I'm getting a lot of opposite opinions from the pack. Some say they like the start map, some say they don't. This goes for all the maps.
Good or bad, I wanted to say thanks to czg and all of you who make this game what it is.
BTW, thanks shambler for the compliment and I'm working
on an original. But it seems I still have some czg left in my blood because I'm working on a map that is from the Jam 1 pack. Hope to have it soon.
What A Small World It Is!
Seeing the author as gotshun I knew this was who I taught Worldcraft to so many years ago :-) I only wonder if he remembers me, hehe
Well Dan, How The Hell Are You.
Looks like I made it to the big times. HA!! I figured I would post some of my works. Looks like I'm not to well received, but that's fine.
I enjoy the feed back, good and bad. This helps me give these guys a map they can enjoy...I hope! Hope to see ya soon. Are you still living in the same place many years ago? And yes, it is a small world. Hmmmm, now i'm in the mood to go to disney world.
"I'm getting a lot of opposite opinions from the pack. Some say they like the start map, some say they don't. This goes for all the maps."
Pete, when you're able to split opinions like that, it means you're on to something. Dull creators get consensual feedback. So you rebuilt all these CZG bits from scratch? Wow, now THAT's impressive! I take back what I said about cut and paste in my review over at Quaddicted. Did you read it? I didn't get a reply from you. I'm bfg666 over there BTW.
Dull creators get consensual feedback.
Of course they do.
It's just the matter of taste, don't take everything as a constructive feedback, try to filter and leave only bits that will keeps you getting better and better. Until you're so good, nobody dares to complain your maps at all (even if some person don't like your artistic visions*). Many "top mappers" are often overrated in that sense, because people don't dare to say anything negative, because some mappers has history and power! behind them, if that makes any sense. So try avoid using too much reference from other mappers, just try to be yourself - then it comes naturally.
Copy and paste in quake level design is not bad thing by any mean, because there has to be some consistency. But combining and tweaking of those 'elements' can make really unique areas, rooms, hallways without spending too much time building them individually from scratch.
Of course crazy can be and you can make whatever you want. And more mad you make some 'special' individual persons, it's only good sign, then you have made something unique.
Well to be fair, he did ask for feedback, whether good or bad. Apparently he really wants to make the players happy with his work. No-one can make everyone happy but he's willing to know what we like and don't like in order to improve himself. And according to him, his next map will be an original work. I'm looking forward to playing it. What I'd also like to see is his old maps from way back.
Of course, when people have such different opinions, it may be a struggle to know which way to go. That's why I made this extensive review at Quaddicted with very specific points, rather than just saying "I like this map/not that one".
You Guys Are A Great Bunch!!
Thank you for your personal views it means a alot. So thanks again to all of you.
Hey bfg666, no offence takin. I said I wanted feed back and that is what you gave me......no worries!!
So thanks again. Play insanity (pdsp1) again, but this time go the other end of the tunnel opposite the shamblers, you will find plenty of room to move around and fight.
And yes, I scratch build all the levels. You can ask CZG himself. Who better to confirm this then him.
Pete, the problem with these shamblers is that they ambush me immediately when I press the button, so I can't escape anywhere: one comes out of the door above from the room where the SNG is, and if I take cover in the corridor, there are two more inside waiting for me. The corridor is too narrow to rush past them and there is no other way out of here. I can evade the two shamblers at the end of the level, but not these 3 ones.
Don't Jump Down!
After you insert the last grenade you don't have to jump down to the moving platform to press the button.
Go BACK over to the other side of the corridor were the shamblers are."The room were you first seen the red armor." This gives you all kinds of room to fight.BTW....There's extra goodies, which gives you plent of ammo!!
I hope this helps. Let me know, I'll be more than glad to help!
OK, that's infinitely more manageable this way, but it seems a little counter-intuitive to me. My natural Quake instinct, and I'm probably not alone in this case, tells me to go press that button when it becomes accessible. You have to know there's an ambush there beforehand to not get fooled by it.
Now, I understand the trap-bait and I would be perfectly fine with it IF there was a possible way out of here. As it is, it's a bit like those slime pits in the original Doom which you couldn't get out of if you fell into them. It sucked then and it's not any better now. It's a design flaw in my book.
Do what you want with this advice but I strongly suggest that if you do similar ambushes in the future, you need to let the player have a chance of getting out of them alive.
By the way, you said you made maps back in the day before stopping for, what, 10 years or something? Are those maps available for download? I'd very much like to see them.
Okay, let's put it this way.. this is just my opinion but.. you can start making fights two ways.
1) you plan everything on paper/your mind, you calculate good spots for enemies and starts tweaking them. Try to see thing like a "short-movie", expectation how player sees your world and moves there. Really good ambush is something player can't expect. And those kind of ambushes leave a "good" memory about you map, if I'm right.
2) you focus on layout and mood, then slowly when making it, keep thinking what kind of ambushes/fights/enemy paths this are can support. Try to leave at least one wall without much detail, because then I can be door that opens when ambush happens. After all teleporting enemies is cheap and doesn't always make sense. Some people like to put teleport textures on ground to tell the player, what will happen. And from feedback, I realize those opening ambush lockers/rooms can contain ammo and other stuff, so those can be really part of main gameplay flow.
Sorry typos, but hopefully you get some good ideas.
Great Input Newhouse
Like I said, These maps are my first release and also an experiment in mapping I put them out there to get some feed back on the do's and dont's of mapping. I appreciate all the input from you guys.....also in hopes that you enjoy playing my maps.
Thanks again guys for letting me know what
your looking for and I will try to do my best!
P.S. The maps I made years ago are still on my 1998 dell computer so if you have any advice on how I can retrieve them......I would more than be happy to release them to you guys.
Ah, OK. Yes, I see how that could be a problem... Maybe you can plug its HDD into your current computer?
Chances are a computer that old wouldn't use the same kind of connector as a modern one for its hard drives. What kind of hardware does the PC have? Any way of writing to a disk (floppy?) or USB 1.0?
I have an external hard drive dock that accepts IDE drives. It cost around 20 USD on sale. Some other options would be a PCI to USB add in card or just a network/internet connection. The question is whether the data is worth the cost to retrieve it.
I keep one old XP computer around specifically for situations such as this. It even has a floppy drive.
Is It A Problem?
There is lots of options. For a 1998 computer, you have USB 1.0 or 1.1, floppy disks, CD recorder, DvD recorder, LAN cable, Internet, and in the best case a firewire connector too, or you can unplug the hard disk and plug it in your new computer, as they still tend to have 1 or 2 PCI connectors.
Or is your newest or old computer a laptop? If it is i do understand, laptops can lack critically in connectors most of times, no matter the age.
O.K. Sounds Good
I will look into this ASAP.
Thanks again guys.
Hey, I was playing first level again with the honey theme. I spotted these shoot grenade here hole on walls.. it wasn't no-brainer, just the shoot button texture wasn't enough to understand what to do first.
I was thinking, if you ever make maps that has glass/windows included. Try out making glass pipe, and inside you can see there is a shootable button and then player start wondering "how can I hit that button.. hmm". And then that glass pipe leads to those holes on walls. Sounds good right?
It is always good to bring up "problem" for the player to be solved first than showing the problem and answer at the same spot, that does't go for everything but for this case this is pretty much the issue. That feature is interesting, it just needs a bit more tweaking.
Very Interesting Idea.
I like the idea of letting the player think a little on how to proceed. The concept does not need to be difficult, just a little bit of thinking.
And I really like the glass pipe idea. Maybe create a pipe with a window in it.
Does the PC have an Ethernet connection/card? If so use a cross Ethernet cable and back to back them to the destination machine. Configure the IP addresses - say 10.0.0.1 & 2 and 255.0.0.0 mask and you should be able to workgroup the drives together. Make sure you share the appropriate folders etc.
Going To Be Playing Through This
So I Played
A horde of shambles ate the recording of the first, but there should be the 2nd map here:
in a bunch of hours.
- awesome architecture
- scale is mostly really good.
- interconnectedness rocks
- however, some of the maps simply overdo it (so you had to use arrows). Looping the 3rd time somewhere is a nice moment the first time, but if the whole map is based on it, it feels kinda weird.
- some jumps are possible but the author didn't expect it
- my main critique: it's really fucking crazy hard. Yeah, I shouldn't be playing on hard maybe. But I see a problem here: There's not enough health to play a fun style; there are so many shamblers, vores, etc. that I'm basically forced to play super cautiously (which makes it just less fun), because there's no leeway for errors. Also, the next wave of enemies will be just as unforgiving. Imho there needs to be some balance, and some up and downs in the difficulty, and also with the health/ammo.
- Could actually be much shorter for me. I didn't expect a 1h monster per map!
So, really awesome thanks!
Thanks For The Youtube Vid.
When I made these maps, I was the only one who play tested theme...Yeah I know that's a no no but I didn't have any one at the time to do it.
Most of the architecture can be credited to CZG. I simply rescaled his ideas for this map. Sorry about the maps being difficult, but as I stated, I was the only one to play test them.
These maps were intentionally made to play more than once. It takes some play through time to figure out how the map works so it's not to difficult the next time around.
Try playing again, I promise it gets easier, I know, I play tested them hehe! The maps do have different difficulty settings, try playing with an easier setting.
Thanks again Megaman. I'm working on another map hope to have it soon. Just one map this time but maybe I'll make another pack soon.
I appreciate the feed back.
Thanks again Megaman.
Pete (Gotshun) D.
Old School Anybody?
My friend and guru posted my old school maps at quaketastic. Thereunder Gotshun_lost_levels.
Thanks Dan for all the great help. Dan was the one who figured how to retrieve the maps off my 1998 dell computer. He also did the read me files as well and tweeked some of the maps.
Enjoy and as always.......look forward to the feed back.