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MapJam 8 - Film Noir
Cool jazz slides it's way into your eardrums, your companion draws in her cigarette, letting the smoke curl out slowly from her mouth. You take a sip of your vermouth and realise that it's time to get your black and white on.

This jam oozes sexiness and grittiness.

The rules are, greyscale only (fullbright color highlights are allowed). Being that making textures may be required, the deadline is Saturday October 8th.

The maps should be designed for or compatible with ARCANE DIMENSIONS so get with that shizzle yo.

For your consumption:

A small album with some theme images:

Some musics to get you in the mood:

Have fun mapping!
Roll Call 
check in here if you're interested guys. 
I think a mod needs to be set, otherwise this is going to be a real nightmare to install.
Also I am absolutely in. 
Not sure about rules/techniques, but I'm surely in! 
Drained Of Color 
My mind is drained from the previous jam so I will not be participating. I look forward to the worlds that are created from this theme! 
Grey Gripes 
It's just a shame the quake palette's grey ramp is so terribly coarse. If everyone's making new textures anyway, might it be an idea to use external textures without the palette restriction? 
scratch that fellas, the people have spoken on #tf and demand AD, so we're using that. 
how about packaging it with a custom palette.lmp so that enemies and guns and HUD are also greyscale? 
and you would benefit from more shades of grey that way, and you could use any 8-bit textures you wanted and not worry about converting them to greyscale individually. 
How Timely 
I've been doing value and color tests with grayscale textures then later adding various color themes.

I think this is an awesome map jam idea, not sure I'll have the time to break away from my own project though :/

Really looking forward to playing these and learning from the cool ideas I'm sure they will contain. 
Kinn is right, quake gray ramp blows. I have a 32 shade palette with a mid/low mid focus that might work well for quake. I can upload that or a couple texture tests using that palette if people want to experiment with it. 
Interesting Theme... 
If I was experienced enough, I might have given it a try, but I still have much more to learn before attempting to release anything. Here's hoping to see Rick's bar from Casablanca in Quake. Good luck to everyone who'll be participating in this jam. 
Sepia Palette ? 
I think this theme is awesome.

Is a "sepia" palette allowed ? 
can you post some screenshots of it used on a map / hud?

I'd like to keep the coloured fullbrights in case people want something to stand out from the B&W 
Sorry, a little too restrictive for me.

Fire and Brimstone was good. Pipes and Water would have been good. Pipes and Water, must be Quoth, must be Base theme, not so good. 
THIS! is an awesome idea. 
if you want to use sepia, then use truecolor textures in your map. I don't think it will be easy juggling too many palettes. 
I'm abroad currently, but I'll return home at the end of the week and I'll upload some screenshits, the palette and some textures for people to play with. It may or may not save some people a little footwork.

I'd like to keep the coloured fullbrights in case people want something to stand out from the B&W

Yep, that could be lovely. 
Don't want to rain on your parade, but you'll have severe technical problems trying to use a custom palette with Arcane Dimensions.

Rather than ruin all the fun, I let someone else figure out the "why". 
(But a couple of small tweaks to Quakespasm will make everything "ok") 
Would need multi gamedir support (-game ad -game jam8) 

Otherwise someone must choose that all AD games be black and white ;-) 
DP does multi gamedir. 
Just Testing Quake's Palette With BW Textures 
screenshot 1
screenshot 2 (I know... yellow sucks)
That's The Default Palette? 
To be honest, judging from the comments here I expected those screens to be a lot worse. I'm sure a custom palette wouldn't hurt, apart from the technical troubles of implementing it, but I think that's perfectly serviceable.

Anyway, If I find the time I might give this jam a shot. I flaked out of the last one quite early, but it'd be nice to take a break from working on Lava Bloom to whip out a quicker, simpler level. We'll see. 
#25 Yes, Default. 
I suspect we'll end up with a custom palette for coloring the enemies/hud/weapons regardless, but it's nice to know that most of the effect can be reasonably achieved through simple texture work. 
Quakespasm could absorb the trivial Mark V feature "gl_grayscale 1" and you wouldn't even need the custom palette at all. If switches on/off in real-time. 
(Even easier from an engine standpoint would be a shader like what is already used in Quakespasm for the gamma/contrast control.) 
Does Quakespasm actually has custom shader support? 
As Cool As That Is Baker 
we're leaving coloured fullbrights in 
Changing Palattes 
I would not recommend asking everyone to create custom artwork for one jam linked to a custom palette. Not sure why use AD either, you could easily make this jam for vanilla Quake and put the focus on creating a Noir environment instead.

Why not use a Noir like texture set? Enjoy the colour difference of the monsters being alien to the environment? If you make everything black and white no one is going to see or find any items easily and will be frustrated even before fighting/exploring the maps! 
The guys on #tf wanted AD, so AD it was. The were excited about the extra effects that it would give them. There was also concern over the amount of grey in the default palette.

In terms of textures I'm starting with the kingpin textures (which are awesome for this jam) and will desaturate them in an editor once I've got a bunch of geometry down.

You gonna join in man? 
You gonna join in man?
Sorry, got no spare time atm. 
I can prepare B&W textures for you guys, but you have to prepare a list of which one you need and WAD where I can find it. 
I'm Desaturating A Wad As I Type This 
I'll post it in 10 mins once I've finished.... it's slow as fuck 
I'm afraid desaturation is not enough, add nice leveling to get some contrast. Otherwise it's too dark and grey = boring as fuck and light can't fix it.
Additionally after all this process it's a good idea to turn image to indexed color mode with Quake's palette and fixing unwanted fullbrights if necessary. 
which row should I lighten up then?

I think the original grey, black and white indexes should stay the same.

I was hoping we'd get away with leaving the palette as purely desaturated so that existing textures would translate nicely without strange bright patches. 
At Least For Now 
here are some desaturated palettes

one quake format .lmp and the other .pal 
Ahhh I Misunderstood You... 
You are desaturating palettes, not WAD textures per se. I was talking about using standard palette but desaturating textures :) 
Btw Another Good Ost 
Highlighting Keys And Inportant Items 
To be honest, even if it is B&W, it is possible to highlight certain objects, for example placing white key (with effects white too) against fully black wall etc. I have been drawing my whole like B&W art, so highlighting is not rocket science.. but certainly it is not always is to execute if maps in this case varies a lot. It is a great challenge imo. 
"I have been drawing my whole life* B&W art." And that might be reason why there is so many grammar issues with my comments (time wasted on something else totally). 
I can't open lmp or pal files on TexMex, what those formats are? 
They're The Palette Files 
the .lmp is quakes format, should be able to be handled by most tools

the .pal is jasc format, also most quake handling tools should be able to deal with it.

the last version had a mistake, here is the current version: 
Pak0, Pak1 And Kingpin Textures All Desaturated 
As an fyi, the JASC .pal files are plain text files. It's a basically just a list of the RGB values for all the palette entries. 
Would it be possible to join with a map for id1? Or does it absolutely positively have to be for arcane dimensions 
Sock Can Correct Me If I'm Wrong 
but I don't think any id1 stuff is depreciated in AD, so provided you don't mind it being bundled with the AD stuff on release, then go for it. It should work just fine with the AD progs. 
If it works in id1 then it should just work fine in AD...I think? 
Beaten Dammit 
This Jam 
needs some intense white fog 
And Rain Lol 
I tried to use a sky texture on a func_illusionary with an alpha value set to it around thigh height so it would look like a low layer of creepy fog....

it just renders as opaque and fullbright :( 
why not put a water texture on it instead? 
Its Not Bad 
but the sky texture with the continual single direction movement looks better.... the water looks a little odd.

no matter... thanks for the suggestion :) 
Or pit the sky below the floor and make the floor texture semi transparent 
Noir? Sorry I'll Pass. Good Luck Silhouetting! 
I'm gonna be honest... this theme sounds about as Quakey to me as military shooter or Steven Universe. I'm sure the talent involved will produce some good maps, though, so I'll be following the thread! 
Which quake monster should be used for Lauren Bacall? 
Shambler With Lipstick 
So I want to use BW knave. Mostly for wood and organics. Tried it myself. Not happening.

Any Good Samaritan have the will / time to convert them? 
Holy shit! Someone has to make this into an actual texture for shamby! 
I'll Get Onto It Ionous 
in the meantime, some inspiration: 
Knave... Let Me Know If They're No Good 
Thanks Shamblernaut 
Will check it after work. Probably seven hours or so. 
These Are Exactly What I Was Looking For. 
Thanks man. Now I HAVE to finish something. 
let me know if you need any others converted, the workflow is pretty quick now. 
Progress Check! 
Post a screenshot if you have one. If not, no worries.

Here's some stuff of mine, very preliminary, unlit... you get the idea though.

keep it up! 
Looks great shamblernaut. Not much progress on my side for now, only a little scene. I've been pretty exhausted lately for some reason. 
This will be one depressing pack, hah! 
Some person said never start with details.. let's see can I actually trust his words* 

Your progress looks great! Keep it up! 
I Actually Have Time For A Session Today 
1008 Brushes Thus Far 
Fedora - test
Whole suit texture should be finished tomorrow. 
I love it. Good work Ionous.

Also I love that Kreathor. Should put hats on the ogres too ;). (hell, they're basically fat guys with chainsaws, just a reskin would suffice).

I expect to see lots of grunts and dogs. Would be funny to see some of the other enemies redone but that's a lot of work. 
Looking good, maybe hats are just enough for some enemies? Unless you're filling to re-skin most of basic enemies like enforcers, ogres etc. ? 
Unless you're willing* .. 
Death Knights tuxes 
...with a bowtie. 
Mobs - Wip 
That looks really good khreathor. 
Yeah, quite hilarious.

Though keep in mind that, as far as I understand, Film Noir is meant mostly as a catchy title for the actual theme that is B&W, not necessarily having to be based on 1940s crime fiction. 
Lose The Suit 
was much better with just the hat. 
I Like The Suit 
But really all you need to do is just put a fedora on every single monster and it will be absolute gold 
It all depends on whether he shoots for Casablanca or Grim Fandango. But yeah, it would be interesting to see some comedy in Quake. Oh, great! Now I can't unpicture a vore sporting a fedora... 
#86 - yeah I keep that in mind. Afaik Ionous is making "Night of the Living Dead" themed map, but I don't think original grunts would fit this theme anyway.

#87 & #88 - I can prepare fedora for every monster :)

I have prepared this model mostly for fun and to learn proper mdl export pipeline. It's not obligatory, I'm fine if you don't want to use it.
I would like to modify other models too, maybe make some mod in the future?

I have few ideas for other enemies. For example Enforcer could be a guy in vested suit with retro-blaster from 40s. Something like guys in "The Bureau: XCOM Declassified". 
Keep The Suit 
Hilarious stuff! 
No Moody Backlighting 
no sale. 
Hahaha Khreathor, this is amazing! 
"Ionous is making "Night of the Living Dead" themed map"
I suppose it means we're gonna blow up hordes of zombies real soon... Cool!

"Enforcer could be a guy in vested suit with retro-blaster from 40s"
Yeah, 1940s MIB! Sold. 
yeah, the knight re-skinned to hold a baseball bat or 2x4 :) 
I doubted this jam but it seems to be shaping up nicely 
Never underestimate the power of imagination. The oddest premises can boost creativity. If I was experienced enough, I know I would have loved the challenge. 
here are the desaturated wads you requested 
oh, thank you very much! BTW is semi-cyberpunk film noir theme fine too? I would like to combine technology a bit with that timeline. 
After all I need to do something like that, so it makes sense why there is monsters/laser enforcers and so on, they're from different planet I guess..

I really hope Quake didn't have any specific information about Earth and so on. It is a bit hard to figure out how to do things.. because I really want to include every jam map to bigger pack (episode) in the future. This maps theme is so different that it must be some kind of secret level.. like one in Episode 4 "The Nameless City". 
Personally I just got my motivation back after starting to listen this: 
Noir is a certain atmosphere, not a specific time period. Blade Runner can be considered noir, so your idea is perfectly valid. Plus, see post #86. 
By The Way 
This jam gave me some inspiration to experiment a few things on my own:
1) I need high contrast B&W textures with no greys, a la Frank Miller's Sin City, of different materials - wood, metal, stone, printed fabrics, ornaments, what-have-you... Does anyone know of such a texture pack or high contrast colored textures that could easily be converted to pure B&W?
2) Would it be feasible to have two fullbright rotfish, one red and one blue, as a tribute to Coppola's Rumble Fish? 
Here You Have WADs With High Contrast 
ID greyscale + high contrast
KNAVE greyscale + high contrast
KINGPIN greyscale + high contrast

I created them to make maps looking more like a comic book. When you set a proper light/shadow, it blends really nice.

Here I have some screens, but when used in darker light like this, they look kinda normal, they lose their potential:
Knave screenshot 01
Knave screenshot 02
Knave screenshot 03
Knave screenshot 04

But you could set some high "_minlight" to get nicer illustrative effects. Here are some fullbright screenshots from the editor:
Knave Fullbright screenshot from the editor 1
Knave Fullbright screenshot from the editor 2

So blending this two styles should give you nice effects. It's all about light and shadow.

(Caution: This WADs don't support fullbright colors yet. Buttons and arrows don't "glow" in the dark. I'll add them sometime this week.)

I keep original names, so you can just switch WADs to see how it works for you. It's much easier to see what's going on in the Editor too! You can just use them temporarily, during development process, and just switch back to Shamblernaut's WAD before final compilation. 
Thanks, Khreathor. That's not exactly what I wanted but it's a step in the right direction. I really need no greys at all, only textures made of pure black and pure white. I guess I could try to photoshop these. The only colors I would use would be for the couple of fullbright rotfish.

Speaking of, any idea about point #2? 
ye, get me one of those fancy blood-shimmer in the moonlight katanas done while you're at it. 
Is there a way to make a transparent brush blur the view behind it? I was thinking of having private eye office style doors with frosted glass. 
if you're looking for a pure black and white effect maybe look at sketchquake or NPR quake: 
Thanks Shamblernaut but these won't do. As I understand, SketchQuake and NPR are engines that modify the rendering style. That's interesting though, and I'll probably try them as a player at some point, but what I need is only textures, so that they can be used in any engine.

If I'm fast enough at building what I have in mind, it could even serve as a start map for this jam - I already have the skill names sorted out: The Big Easy, The Normaltese Falcon, Casablanc-hard and Nightmare Alley. 
As far as I know there aren't any engines that let you define brushes with specific shaders on them, which is the sort of thing you would need to change how geometry or textures looked through them. Sorry. 
Thanks Pritchard. I guess I'll have to make do with classic see-through transparency, then. 
Regarding A Start Map 
I'm already on it, looking forward to seeing your ideas though. 
What do you think about my idea for skill names inspired by movies? If you want you can use it, as is or modified to your liking. 
the start map is already movie themed, it might fit, i'll try it when i add the skills. 
Inside NEW Houses? 
Yeah, except those are mostly old houses/buildings* 
Yeah, retro theme and all... I was making a joke on your alias. 
Yeah, I know ~ I just didn't know NewHouse sounds weird/funny, if there is even Dr. Houses around. And it is literally converted from my surname which is "Uusitalo", but I can assume nobody could pronounce it properly enough.. so that is why I pick up "Newhouse" instead. 
Progress So Far? 
Just wondering, how people are doing, everything going as planned? 
Is it possible to not give player shotgun? 
Nevermind, I was able to take it off by using this "take_weapons" key in worldspawn. 
So if anybody is interested :

It feels like I have no idea what I'm doing currently.. hopefully in next week that is much more clear. 
Kingpin Texture Fix 
Some of the textures had far too much colour in them. Here is a "fixed" wad. 
What's your method for desaturating textures? For what I'm currently doing I don't need greys, just pure black and white, so I click greyscale in PhotoShop then ramp up contrast to the max, but it might be useful to know how you do it, and why there's "too much color" left in them. 
I'm using a program called graphics gale, it has a nice batch tool that lets me reduce the colour depth using a palette. I'm using a custom palette that has the fullbrights still included (in case somebody wants that).

As for why there are colours still, I think that when I was desaturating the palette (I had to do it by hand) I didn't do it perfectly and some got missed (they're close enough to grey that it isn't really noticeable).

Anyway from there I export to either bitmap or tga, whatever texmex feels like accepting in that given moment.

Graphics gale has really streamlined the process for me, sure I could probably get better looking textures doing them individually, but with the app I can do them in bulk and concentrate on mapping. At the end of the day the lighting is going to make the most difference anyway (IMO). 
I suppose the palette is the one you uploaded on first page? Will you do the enemies/weapons/HUD as well? 
I'm going to package a version of AD (without the original maps) with the jam, I'm going to make a desaturated UI with it. I probably won't bother with the enemies considering there are so many of them. 
There should be a cool jazz soundtrack to complement the thing. If you think you won't have enough time, I could try to do the enemies using your palette and Graphics Gale. I doubt I'll have a playable map ready for the deadline anyway, so I'm in no rush - I may have had enough time for a start map, but you spoiled me of that :P 
As for why there are colours still, I think that when I was desaturating the palette (I had to do it by hand) I didn't do it perfectly and some got missed (they're close enough to grey that it isn't really noticeable).

Quake has a blue range that's pretty desaturated. It's not uncommon for a quantization algorithm to decide that a grey pixel in the original image is closer to one of the desaturated blues than it is to one of the greys.

Some other colors may end up being used for the same reason, but the first blue range is the worst offender. On the other hand, getting rid of it might actually reduce the quality, since the Quake palette doesn't have a lot of greys. 
Thanks Shamblernaut* I'll use those instead.

Also even though Quake's palette doesn't have a lot of greys.. it doesn't matter really. Light can be used as a focus point, almost white sky as a canvas and so on. 
Guys Guys 
I worked out the funky colours that I was getting. AD was defaulting to the quake palette, not the colour data stored in the texture in the bsp file.

So what was happening was it was reconverting the greyscale textures back to the quake palette, quite a bit of texture detail was being lost in this process.

(now how to fix it)

in post #46 I included a zip file with the palette files in it.

1: Make a copy of AD and call it jam8dev or whatever.

2: Extract the .lmp file from the aforementioned zip to a directory called gfx, which should exist in the copy of AD you just made

3: Rename that .lmp file to palette.lmp

4: Update your Jack / TB to use this folder for testing and development of your map.

5: ???

6: Profit. 
FYI, There is no color data stored in textures in bsp file, they just refer to indexes into a palette stored elsewhere (palette.lmp as you say) 
So are even all the effects like breakable bricks turning into greyscale? 
Personally, I would leave the blood (splatters, shootable triggers) red. 
Are you in too Mugwump? It must be your first release then* 
Maybe... No... Yes? 
I wasn't planning to at first because I didn't feel experienced enough. But then this jam inspired me those pretty neat ideas about Coppola's Rumble Fish and Frank Miller's Sin City, so I started upon it. I thought I could make a cool small start map in time but Shamblernaut told me he was taking care of it. If I must make an actual full-blown level with combat, I'm afraid I won't make the deadline.

I still might be able to contribute in a couple ways though, if Shamblernaut would be so kind as to answer these:
1) I haven't heard from you about the monster textures: do you think you'll have time to desaturate them or would you like me to give it a try?
2) Would it be possible to contribute my map at a later date in the form of a DLC? I suppose it would require to plan a slipgate for it in the start map, only accessible once the DLC is installed. 
1: The palette procedure described above handles the model and UI desaturation.

2: Yeah DLC is fine, I'm still working on Jam7 DLC. The view of the community is that more content is better, no matter when it's released. And I can modify the start map later too. 
regarding red blood, I need to see if I can remap the colour in progs (if I get time). 
1) OK, I'll get to it, then. And while I'm at it, I might convert the HUD as well.
2) Awesome! Thanks.

Colors: I'm not sure whether I'll use your palette for my map or not: what I have in mind is to keep the architecture pure greyless black & white and have the enemies greyscaled, but my custom Rumble Rotfish will need bright red and electric blue. I was also thinking of using a blood red skybox for an interesting contrasting effect, a bit like in Killing Joke's Almost Red cover artwork. 
Reading this thread makes me think that a "Sin City" map would be cool: 
Nice! You made that? 
no, my point is that you won't need to convert ui, hud or models because the palette handles that 
Oh, OK. 
Can we still have a red charmap for the on-screen messages and the HUD's counters though? 
That probably requires remapping those colours to the red fullbrights that I kept in the palette. That probably needs to be done in the progs or the engine. I can look at that too, but I can't promise anything. 
It's in the engine code itself. I won't be releasing a modified engine just for a mapjam.

If you still want the coloured UI numbers, edit the lmp files and change their current palette index to 250 or 251. These are the fullbright red indexes.

The only way for me to revert blood back to red is to change the palette file again, I am somewhat loathe to do so, as this may mean that reds may creep into the textures that we've already desaturated. 
OK. I guess I won't bother with the red skybox, then. It would be weird to have a red sky but grey blood. Same with the HUD counters. So it's gonna be full-on B&W with my couple of fish as the only colors in the map.

BTW, I'm a musician and I've started working on a main theme for the jam. It's gonna be a laidback jazzy track with an electro/industrial sound. 
It should be noted that Quake is a game with a rather primitive lighting model, so colors play a fairly important role in distinguishing shapes. Not as important as with sector lighting, for example, but still. I'm a little concerned over where all this is going. 
If it turns out to be a failure then that's cool too. A journey can be just as rewarding as the destination.

It is a concern that colours will cause the mobs and geometry to disappear a bit much, but at the end of the day the designers should be able to test and get a feel for where lighting will help solve that. 
I also need some numbers so I know how many entrances to place on my start map.

If you're joining in can you pop a +1 below or something? 
+1... But Not On The Deadline 
On the blending of mobs and geometry: simply build your map with noticeably lighter and/or darker textures than the monsters' and be mindful of your lighting, and you should be fine. We've been watching B&W movies for more than a century and they're usually pretty readable. 
Well uhh. I get your point as a whole, but B&W movies typically support much better lighting effects. 
True, but I've seen impressive results achieved with Quake's lighting method. And you can use .lits or, for Darkplaces, RTlights. DP is particularly efficient with chiaroscuro. 
Scifi/Horror Noir Something

Hopefully I will have enough time to work with lights, before deadline. 
That looks...really dark. 
Hups! I used range 0.5 that made everything way darker* 
Unless it's been changed 0.5 is the default. The old versions of light would print out the whole list of options if it was executed with no parameters.

Here it is down to "range". This is not the entire list. There's about 25-30 more lines.

----- Light 1.43 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
----- Release 2 ---- Coloured light and LIT support by MH

Light performs light processing of Quake .BSP files

light [options] bspfile

-threads [n] Enable multithreaded processing (faster, default 4)
-fast [n] Enable fast lighting (lower quality, default 2)
-soft [n] Enable soft lighting (reduce jagged shadows)
-softdist [n] Distance tolerance for lights behind surface (default 3)
-extra Enable extra 2x2 sampling for higher quality
-extra4 Enable extra 4x4 sampling for even higher quality
-dist [n] Set fade distance, higher is darker (default 1.0)
-range [n] Set brightness range, higher is brighter (default 0.5) 
Yeah, seems like range didn't do what I thought it would do.. but anyway I started fixing values a bit. Here is second attempt:

Now enemies should be more visible at least? 
-dist does it means like fades in dark like fog, or does it mean it shortens lights?

what about -threads, how do you use it? 
I can see the enemies a bit now, and the surfaces near the lights, so it is better. Hard to say for sure if it's enough without actually seeing it in game.

Threads I've always just set to however many cores the processor has. Don't know about -dist, sounds like some kind of attenuation, so shortens maybe is close.

For some reason -softdist doesn't work in tyrutils. Without it there are places in my map where the lighting changes noticeably, which is why I keep using the older version. 
Second version looks fine. 
remember that those enemies will be in black and white for the final version. To preview it follow the procedure in post 133. 
Don't worry, if I remember correctly screenshots are darker than actual gameplay, it should be bright enough for most of screen.. should be. I used lowest brightness settings I managed to pull off on my computer, and even Quakespasm I drop down contrast and saturation to minimun 1 or something and was still able to play it. So now I'm only afraid, am I making it too bright, will it lost all the creepy atmosphere* 
I Didn't Get Many Responses For The Last Roll Call. 
If I extend this by a week are we likely to get more submissions? 
I was discussing on #TF and the idea came up of fullbrighting some of the projectile models so that you can see them easier. How do you guys feel about this? 
Since the final pack will release with a palette, is there any point using desaturated wads to edit with? Any texture is now fair game? 
I loaded a map with a non-indexed texture, it was coloured. Any indexed texture should be fine though.

It's actually pretty fun to play vanilla quakle with the desaturated palette FWIW. 
1) Roll call: even with a one-week delay, I doubt I'll get something playable by then.
2) Fullbright projectiles: can't tell, haven't tested any combat yet.
3) Palette: I suspect this is gonna be a problem with my custom blue and red pair of rotfish. Will it apply to every map regardless of whether we used it when building our map? 
Spent Way Too Much Time Building Terrain 
Oh well.

Just have to build central structure. Sick of building rocks. I might be done by the original deadline. If not, then extra time would be appreciated. 
I have spend more time on gameplay.. 2-4 minutes of gameplay in area I have been shown, then there is other streets sections and short sewar section but I have no idea how to combine all of these separate parts yet or do I need to rebuild some of the areas to match the style of map. If everything goes well there will at least 15 minutes of gameplay.. if everything need to be crushed to the deadline. 
I'm thinking about trying stuff out for this, but since I'm starting now I highly doubt it'll be either good or ready in time. Question, though. Do I need to use desaturated textures if we've all agreed to the palette? I think using the originals seems to preserve some more detail in greyscale via palette than a direct recolour. 
Yo Pritchard 
If you just use the palette then yes, the game will render mostly in B&W and use vanilla indexed textures you will be fine.

As soon as you deviate away from the vanilla textures you will probably need to desaturate them using the palette I provided. 
Well, so far all the textures I've used have been fine with just the palette (Kingpin ones, the originals) but i'll keep an eye out for any issues. It's not like it's hard to swap them out when building the final map anyway, it's just more pleasant to work with a bit of colour for my poor, tired eyes. 
What have you people been doing about the scale of the kingpin textures (if you're using them)? They're totally out of proportion for Quake, a door handle is at head height most of the time. Do you just ignore it? That's all I can think to do, seeing as scaling them to half size would make things unusable. (The doors may be too tall, but they're not too wide... in fact, they could almost be too narrow :s 
yeah, I'm just ignoring it. It's quakeguy's fault for being a dwarf anyway. 
In Trenchbroom you can specify different scale values for x and y axis.
On narrowness: are you sure these textures are not for double doors? 
Woopsie! That Was Me Above. 
In the kingpin textures the double door textures are pretty obvious, since they're both doors on one texture vs. a single door. The door i'm using at the moment has dimensions of 64x128, which makes it a LOT taller than it is wide. Double doors are nicer for being wide, but they don't really suit my purposes.

64px width isn't... too bad. Quake movement isn't a big fan of it, but you fit through alright and so do small monsters. 
Some Screens 
Not really sure where i'm going with the level layout, but here's some early screens from the starting hallway and of a breakable door.

The doors break in two parts, i'm trying to tweak them so they don't break all at once... kinda hard :/ shotguns do such a variable amount of damage.

Like I said before, I'm not sure how far i'll get with this but it's nice to take a break from my other map to try other stuff. 
Maybe be it is just me, but that looks like old-hospital to me, maybe because the black and white tiles on floor and almost pure white walls. 
Custom Music? 
Is it fine to use custom free ambient tracks? I didn't found suitable one from original tracks. I needed something that was more "unnoticeable".

I would like to use this, unless someone or I will find better ones :

Something that would suit in hellish Hell on Earth themes yet isolated buildings with technology and pipes, bricks and candles. Zombies.. a lots of zombies. 
What music you guys are going to use? Jazz/Dark ambient? 
Amen Break For 40 Minutes Straight 
Amen Break For 14 Minutes Straight 
That'll Be 24000 Pounds Pls 
Breakables Are Fun 
I'm actually getting somewhere with my map. It helps that I've had a lot of free time these past few days to tinker with various things. One of the things I'm trying out is breakables, which i'm using pretty heavily right now.

Plenty of destructible crates and doors in the map, such as this double door I did today. (Ignore the start; my capture software steals focus and I have to shoot to get it back) 
Looking Good! 
I Wouldn't Be Against A Time Extension 
Haven't been able to dedicate as much time as I had wanted. Anyone else feel the same? 
Well, a time extension would definitely help me get my map finished for the release, seeing as I started so late. I'm heading into end of semester exams/tests soon, so my time might be a bit limited especially during the week and that makes every hour count. 
I decided to try using the l_swampn_ skybox from AD for my map, but in QS at least it's not affected by the palette. So, I quickly desaturated it in GIMP: <a href="">link</a>

I included the AD readme because the bit at the bottom said I had to. It'd be good if this could be included with the final package so other people can use it if they want. 
I went through the same process with that same texture, it will be in the final release.

Is a week long enough extension for you guys? 
"Is a week long enough extension for you guys?"

My map definately needs 1 extra week for polishing and setting up the "right" mood. Also playtesting, and figuring out different skill levels. 
A screenshot

Every time I look at them the buildings look too blocky, but there isn't a whole lot I feel I can do about it. Besides, when you're actually playing and not paying close attention they look fine. 
Does this jam use a custom palette now or not? 
Jam That's Good On Your Palate 
I think it does. (I hope it does!)

@khreathor, how are the custom monsters coming along? If it doesn't hurt, It'd be nice to get a Shambler in a pinstripe suit. Not entirely necessary, but it'd make it that much funnier when you see them sitting behind a desk like a mob boss... 

is the palette we'll be packing in the release. 
I asked a question about said palette in post #169 and I'd very much like an answer, to know if I can make this map for an ulterior DLC or if I have to make it a completely separate release. 
Sorry I Missed That Mugwump 
It will apply to every map, however I think (haven't tested though) that truecolour textures on your models should display in truecolour regardless of the palette. Also, I've kept the fullbright colours in the palette, so there is a little colour should you want to use it.

We have small limitation with the implementation of this colour scheme as Baker/EricW pointed out in post 19 - 22.

I have proceeded with this jam under the assumption that there will be no engine modifications. As such I am packaging AD with our palette (and modified models) with the release (much like quoth in jam 7).

If your map is going to require a palette different from the one I provide, then you will need to release it outside of the pack (or think of another solution).

I don't think anybody here has a problem with DLC if that's the route you want to go. 
It's OK... 
...I know how easy it is to miss one post in an active thread.

My couple of fish will be fullbright anyway, so I may be able to pull it off with your palette. The other thing that's bugging me about it is the grey blood, though. Is there a way for me to make it fullbright so it would appear red despite the palette? 
For The Love Of Shub 
Please don't include AD in the release! Completely unnecessary bloat - and contrary to the idea of mods like AD and Quoth to begin with. 
Fucking Hell Yes 
Including Quoth in jam 7 was already a monumentally bad idea. 
I was going to strip the unused AD content out of the release to save space. Primarily the maps. Unless a new version of Quakespasm drops before the release date then they'll be packaged together.

@Mugwump, there are two options with regard to that. Changing the palette back to a red (looks bad btw, ruins the UI, alsp possibly other textures - see screenshot).

Or by modifying the engine to change the blood colour to a fullbright red palette index rather than index 67 (maybe it was 57... I forget).

I don't want to push for a new QS release just for this. 
So the textures are essentially gonna be desaturated twice? First the "lossy" way, then by the new palette? 
Or by modifying the engine to change the blood colour to a fullbright red palette index rather than index 67 (maybe it was 57... I forget).

QC controls this, not the engine.

Though I'm not sure the fullbright red range is big enough to use it for particles. I don't know the subtleties of how the engine picks additional colors for randomizing.

Could try and repaint the oranges though. 
I looked through the QC and couldn't find it. I found some suspiciously bloody looking code in r_part.c in the function R_RocketTrail though.

I used the same textures to desaturate the textures as I'm using for the engine. There shouldn't be any extra loss of information beyond the first conversion. 
SpawnBlood is the main function you need to look at. It's in projectiles.qc (I thought it was in another place, but maybe it was moved in AD).

Lightning gun has its damage effect defined separately, in weapons.qc.

There shouldn't be any extra loss of information beyond the first conversion.

It's just that the first conversion seems to be unnecessary. 
Thanks Dwere 
The only place I can find a palette index for blood in QC files is ai_gibs.qc under MON_BCOLOR_RED. I changed this to the indexes 251, it is randomising the particles to use the surrounding colours aswell, I need to dig deeper to find this code and nerf it.

Thanks for the heads up man. 
Before you decide to further explore this idea, something just occurred to me: having red blood would also require having red blood decals, which probably means tweaking the palette again, which means not-pre-desaturated textures may look wrong. It probably isn't worth the hassle just for lil' old me.

I'll run some tests with and without your palette and see which suits what I have in mind best and/or what level of sacrifice of my original ideas I'll be willing to make. That's gonna wait a little though, as right now I'm focusing on finishing my jazzy/industrial main theme in time, to have at least some sort of contribution. I'll post an .ogg when it's done. 
I need to dig deeper to find this code and nerf it.

Another suggestion is to use dark orange without even changing it in the palette. Lightning gun's damage effect always used it (well, at least until AD), and people still think it's blood, because it's almost red. 
I Never Thought It Was Blood 
Rather embers. Blood wouldn't float upwards. 
Tweaking the palette is dangerous for my map, as I'm using regular textures right now and so any change would probably let colour leak through. As far as I can tell it's good as it is right now, save for the unfortunately grey blood.

Also, if it is possible to not pack even a lightweight versio of AD that would be a good way to cut down the download size. Just include the required directory structure with only changed/added files and I think a lot of people will be happier.

A fun benefit of building my map the way I have is that it can be played without the palette active, it looks nice there as well c: 
Tweaking the palette is dangerous for my map, as I'm using regular textures right now and so any change would probably let colour leak through. As far as I can tell it's good as it is right now, save for the unfortunately grey blood.

Also, if it is possible to not pack even a lightweight versio of AD that would be a good way to cut down the download size. Just include the required directory structure with only changed/added files and I think a lot of people will be happier.

A fun benefit of building my map the way I have is that it can be played without the palette active, it looks nice there as well c: 
Oh no double post :( 
So you're also using colored texture wads when mapping your map, and only changing them to desaturated ones just before compiling.. so it looks nice with colors or without* I'm definitely going make an another standalone version about this jam map but with colors then... 
Not Quite 
I'm not changing the wads out at all. The only thing thst makes my map desaturated is the custom palette in /gfx 
So, is the deadline being extended or not? I'm still not sure :/ and it'd be put back to the 15th if it was, right?

I ask because if it's not, I'll either be running right down to the metal to get my map in. I can see myself finishing it if I had a bunch of time available tomorrow and on saturday, but friday in particular is looking to try and steal all my free time so... yeah.

It's tough because I don't really need an extra week; Obviously time to polish would be nice, but I tend to do that as I go and build an area almost entirely before working on the next which means that while most of the map is ready to go, the final two sections are barely even greyboxed right now.
I've been working incredibly fast by my standards though, especially for the level of quality i've been putting out, so it really feels like I could be done with the map come... I want to say wednesday? Perhaps monday, since I do have the day off and I will probably spend the entire time working on the map if I can.

This got long. Simple question: Are we getting an extension or not? Thanks! 
yeah man, +1 week, the 15th 
There is never enough time* I will definitely use all of the time polishing and extending gameplay. There is a lot of things like introducing enemies, build up, ambient, effects, scripting, timing and many other things. But I assume this map will be a pretty polished.

I can already see that there might not be enough time for me to create/implement the whole city section.. I need to cut it down a bit, because I assume ending is much more important in the end. Maybe later when I make an another standalone version, I will include even the whole city section. 
when you get the chance can you let me know the names of your maps? 
One Ranger Two Boomsticks 
But I might change it because I'm thinking of adding a nailgun to the map... 
Buried By Time And Dust 
Her Lips Were Wet With Venom 
How's everyone's map coming along? I'm almost ready to put the final room in I think, but right now it's looking pretty slick as it is. 85 monsters, takes me about 4 minutes to finish which is pretty decent (I think I'm a bit quick since i'm very familiar with it all now).

Also, I'm assuming the changelevels in the startmaps will be resetting the player inventory, right? I'd hope so.
And where can I get the template for the readme style people seem to like to use? Or should I just cut up one from another release? 
Also, uh... how do we set up the changelevel at the end of our map so that it returns to the start properly? is the map going to be called jam8_start? 
Everything Is Looking Pretty Good Here 
Can you guys give me a list of mobs that you're using so I know which projectiles to give fullbright projectiles to?

My start map will reset weapons, yes (although im going to need to look up how to do it). 
Well, I set my changelevel to clear the player inventory on my map so if everyone did the same there'd be no issues there. I think the relevant worldspawn key for clearing a player's inventory as they spawn is take_weapons, with possibly a few others? Not sure, all I could get it to do was ditch me with just an axe...

I'm using:
In Arcane Dimensions source (client.qc)

- A function is named DecodeWorldParms

has keys like ...


... in that function. 
Monsters & Items I Use 
A bit of lengthy map is coming over 100 enemies in normal.. and in hard probably way too much.

monsters I use:
monster_shalrath (vore)

but my map's theme is cyberpunk future kind of.. not much hopefully enough. So basically I would like to leave enemies as they are? I'm not using monster_army (basic grunts) at all. 
Any Word On The Deadline? 
Because I feel that this jam isn't really going anywhere. 
Oct. 15th 
My map is basically ready to submit. I just need to add some detail to an area and that's basically it, although I have to say that the entire ending of the damn thing kinda sucks. Oh well.

Still not sure what I'm supposed to do for a readme :/ if I knew I'd be able to submit pretty much now! 
Just look at one of Sock's readmes, that's what I used as a template. 
I'm writing up my readme right now, is it okay to license my stuff as CC? Specifically CC BY-NC-SA 4.0, I don't think it'd cause any distribution issues but I just thought I'd check here.

How do we deliver our maps? I'm guessing we just zip the relevant files (jam8_pritchard.bsp,, jam8_pritchard.txt) and email them to shambler or something? 
I'm not sure if the original id textures are GPL'd, so I'm not sure if you can mix licenses like that.

Also if you're using any of the kingpin textures then I'm not sure if you can apply that license to your map. I'm not sure what licenses apply to to those textures. 
In Regards To File Delivery 
The email in my profile is fine. Can you deliver them to me in a zip file with any additional files you want to use? Please preserve the directory structure so that any additional files will be in the correct directories.

The files I need:

jam8_yournamehere.lit (if necessary) (if you want to include it) 
What would you say I should put for my copyright instead then? Just the standard "Don't put this on a CD" spiel, which isn't really... relevant, but is certainly the standard? Anything suits me but I do want to get it right :s
That's what my .zip looks like right now. When I finish up my readme i'll send it.

My first released Quake map! and it's uh... noir themed...

No one ever said I had to be traditional. 
Looks perfect man.

I would consider including an exclusions section that explicitly relates to the textures that your map uses, I think that the CC licenses have a provision for these. 
How Much Does It Matter? 
I couldn't find anything about specifically excluding things from CC, did you just mean writing something like only applying the license to the stuff I built (So basically the .map file)?

To be honest, I'm not that concerned with licensing. I've always liked CC because it lets my works be free with a few simple restrictions, but i've never had to deal with copyrighted assets before (I've always been using similarly free textures/models etc.). I might just go back to what people usually include, it's easier and no one really cares anyway. 
I've always released my source files separate from BSP so it's more clear that the license (GPL in my case) applies only to the .map source. (the readme in the bsp file package said "all rights reserved" or similar.)

You could put a nested zip file in there with the .map and the open source license, then maybe it will be clear that the license applies only to the .map source. 
and in the case of my quakec source, which has ambiguous licensing status, i just didn't put a license at all and that way people can implicitly use it to make quake mods but i'm not representing that the source is truly legal to use. 
A nested zip sounds fine if Shambler's okay with that. I don't know if I'd bother, though. In my case, not putting a license and leaving it ambiguous would probably be fine. I don't really care that much or have any great fears for the future of my map; there's not exactly a market for people stealing and trying to sell Quake maps at the moment, that's for sure.

And not trying to mess with the status of the kingpin assets would be for the best, too... I mean, they sell it on GoG, so it's not exactly abandonware, but somehow I don't see them pursuing legal action. 
Just apply the license to the .map file and not the .bsp because the map file only references the texture file names and doesn't explicitly include them (unlike the bsp).

Also if you're going to shorten my nick, use "naut" or "snaut" or similar. There is another Shambler on this message board and I don't want the guy to get caught up in my antics =P 
So Confusing 
I don't think I even realized :/

Distribution / Copyright / Permissions

Quake I is a registered trademark of id Software, Inc.

Please follow the conditons of the CC BY-NC-SA 4.0 license in regards to the map sources,
and please respect copyright in regards to the .bsp and its included textures.


Does this look okay? 
looks pretty sexy to me man 
Thanks babe :>

Sent the email :o 
Roll Call? 
Excited for this jam to release, but I am looking back at the last 50 and do not see a recent roll call.

From what I can gather it looks like Pritchard, NewHouse, and Shamblernaut...possibly Ionous?

Just curious! 
from memory it is skacky, pritchard, newhouse, and ionous with submissions, me with the start map

and any others that want to surprise us with a submission.

I've received 2 of the 4 entries so far :) 
so is the deadline in midnight 15th? I'm possible in a different time zone that you guys from usa I can assume? It will be hard for me to pull off everything in time. There is couple rooms that are very necessary I have to do in one day basically + play testing if there is enough time for that.

I focused more on middle part testing last week, and this week I have been spent on working on starting areas... please forgive me if something is totally shit, If I might rush it too much. 
Two rooms I need to finish then it is done - but it needs a lot of play testing (but I can only assume there is not enough time for that) : 
we'll wait for you to finish up your existing features... don't go adding more though =P

scope creep is a real thing. 
I will not add anything new, especially because I constantly find out that I haven't even finished other parts that I started. >_>;

what will be the name of my map file? jam8_newhouse?
and it teleports to what map? jam8_start? 
yep those are the names :) 
Hey, I'm play testing my map, how do you put name to your map? It wasn't mapname key? 
"message" key in the worldspawn entity. 
Post Count +1 Hype 
...3 years you said you've been practising mapping. It's pretty unbelievable you wouldn't know the answer already. Or how to find out 
That question has been a common one for legitimate reasons for ages. It's also hard to search for. 
I sent mail* 
Release The Kraken !!! 
Yeah, Gimme 
I have been refreshing all day ;-; 
ETA Approx 12 Hours. 
Sorry guys, it will be released in about 12 hours.

I've had a busy day and I found a secret map I had stashed away to pad the content a bit. Otherwise it would have been just 3 maps. 
I'd say that's worth it. Sadly the turnout for this jam has been quite low :(
I wonder if it's because of the theme, it's certainly... non-traditional. I think it's a nice theme, but it was obvious that people weren't so keen pretty early on.

Oh well! I'm sure it'll be a great release anyway, after all my map is in it.

Someday I wish to reach the point where I have almost-ready-to-go maps just laying around on my computer, to the degree that I can forget they exist and then rediscover them at a convenient time... 
To be honest, because of playtesting it took 2-3 hours more for me to be sure I can sent my map even for this contest. I started pretty early but my school and social life ate so much time. Hopefully things I made created at least decent amount of gameplay.

So I used desaturated texture wads but didn't tested it on with that specific palette you shared.. because I assumed in the end I just need to send bsp(+lit) files only? So hopefully everything else is, something I didn't need to focus on that much? It is going to be black and white anyway. 
Did you get my mail btw? 
Yeah, I Have All The Maps. 
Just a little bit of polish on my end here then it will be good to go :)

bsp, lit, map (if you want) and readme 
I will not share my .map because it is like total mess. ;) 
So how many maps in the end? 4 maps + start map? 
I will not share my map neither, because it's just a simple box with a dog standing in the middle. ;) 
Good Enough For Texan Style 
I Submitted A News Thread 
I'm waiting for it to be approved by a mod.

Remember to record demos :)

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