#132 posted by NewHouse on 2016/09/24 15:55:38
Thanks Shamblernaut* I'll use those instead.
Also even though Quake's palette doesn't have a lot of greys.. it doesn't matter really. Light can be used as a focus point, almost white sky as a canvas and so on.
Guys Guys
I worked out the funky colours that I was getting. AD was defaulting to the quake palette, not the colour data stored in the texture in the bsp file.
So what was happening was it was reconverting the greyscale textures back to the quake palette, quite a bit of texture detail was being lost in this process.
(now how to fix it)
in post #46 I included a zip file with the palette files in it.
1: Make a copy of AD and call it jam8dev or whatever.
2: Extract the .lmp file from the aforementioned zip to a directory called gfx, which should exist in the copy of AD you just made
3: Rename that .lmp file to palette.lmp
4: Update your Jack / TB to use this folder for testing and development of your map.
5: ???
6: Profit.
#134 posted by metlslime on 2016/09/25 22:20:29
FYI, There is no color data stored in textures in bsp file, they just refer to indexes into a palette stored elsewhere (palette.lmp as you say)
#135 posted by Newhouse on 2016/09/26 00:35:02
So are even all the effects like breakable bricks turning into greyscale?
#136 posted by Mugwump on 2016/09/26 02:58:36
Personally, I would leave the blood (splatters, shootable triggers) red.
#137 posted by Newhouse on 2016/09/26 03:26:33
Are you in too Mugwump? It must be your first release then*
Maybe... No... Yes?
#138 posted by Mugwump on 2016/09/26 04:13:29
I wasn't planning to at first because I didn't feel experienced enough. But then this jam inspired me those pretty neat ideas about Coppola's Rumble Fish and Frank Miller's Sin City, so I started upon it. I thought I could make a cool small start map in time but Shamblernaut told me he was taking care of it. If I must make an actual full-blown level with combat, I'm afraid I won't make the deadline.
I still might be able to contribute in a couple ways though, if Shamblernaut would be so kind as to answer these:
1) I haven't heard from you about the monster textures: do you think you'll have time to desaturate them or would you like me to give it a try?
2) Would it be possible to contribute my map at a later date in the form of a DLC? I suppose it would require to plan a slipgate for it in the start map, only accessible once the DLC is installed.
1: The palette procedure described above handles the model and UI desaturation.
2: Yeah DLC is fine, I'm still working on Jam7 DLC. The view of the community is that more content is better, no matter when it's released. And I can modify the start map later too.
regarding red blood, I need to see if I can remap the colour in progs (if I get time).
Shamblernaut
#141 posted by Mugwump on 2016/09/26 09:45:03
1) OK, I'll get to it, then. And while I'm at it, I might convert the HUD as well.
2) Awesome! Thanks.
Colors: I'm not sure whether I'll use your palette for my map or not: what I have in mind is to keep the architecture pure greyless black & white and have the enemies greyscaled, but my custom Rumble Rotfish will need bright red and electric blue. I was also thinking of using a blood red skybox for an interesting contrasting effect, a bit like in Killing Joke's Almost Red cover artwork.
#143 posted by Mugwump on 2016/09/26 10:49:04
Nice! You made that?
Mugwump
no, my point is that you won't need to convert ui, hud or models because the palette handles that
Oh, OK.
#145 posted by Mugwump on 2016/09/26 10:59:46
Can we still have a red charmap for the on-screen messages and the HUD's counters though?
That probably requires remapping those colours to the red fullbrights that I kept in the palette. That probably needs to be done in the progs or the engine. I can look at that too, but I can't promise anything.
Yep
It's in the engine code itself. I won't be releasing a modified engine just for a mapjam.
If you still want the coloured UI numbers, edit the lmp files and change their current palette index to 250 or 251. These are the fullbright red indexes.
The only way for me to revert blood back to red is to change the palette file again, I am somewhat loathe to do so, as this may mean that reds may creep into the textures that we've already desaturated.
#148 posted by Mugwump on 2016/09/26 16:03:27
OK. I guess I won't bother with the red skybox, then. It would be weird to have a red sky but grey blood. Same with the HUD counters. So it's gonna be full-on B&W with my couple of fish as the only colors in the map.
BTW, I'm a musician and I've started working on a main theme for the jam. It's gonna be a laidback jazzy track with an electro/industrial sound.
#149 posted by dwere on 2016/09/26 16:21:17
It should be noted that Quake is a game with a rather primitive lighting model, so colors play a fairly important role in distinguishing shapes. Not as important as with sector lighting, for example, but still. I'm a little concerned over where all this is going.
Dwere
If it turns out to be a failure then that's cool too. A journey can be just as rewarding as the destination.
It is a concern that colours will cause the mobs and geometry to disappear a bit much, but at the end of the day the designers should be able to test and get a feel for where lighting will help solve that.
I also need some numbers so I know how many entrances to place on my start map.
If you're joining in can you pop a +1 below or something?
+1... But Not On The Deadline
#152 posted by Mugwump on 2016/09/26 17:00:57
On the blending of mobs and geometry: simply build your map with noticeably lighter and/or darker textures than the monsters' and be mindful of your lighting, and you should be fine. We've been watching B&W movies for more than a century and they're usually pretty readable.
#153 posted by dwere on 2016/09/26 20:48:14
Well uhh. I get your point as a whole, but B&W movies typically support much better lighting effects.
#154 posted by Mugwump on 2016/09/27 04:34:35
True, but I've seen impressive results achieved with Quake's lighting method. And you can use .lits or, for Darkplaces, RTlights. DP is particularly efficient with chiaroscuro.
Scifi/Horror Noir Something
#155 posted by Newhouse on 2016/09/29 04:36:58
#156 posted by Rick on 2016/09/29 04:53:13
That looks...really dark.
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