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High 5 - Retro Jam 5: E3M5!
Wind Tunnels is a cool theme, very befitting the dark and moist weather of middle November, and also the actual trigger_push functionality always leads to some fun & creative usage by the mappers. Over the years there have been several maps which adhered to the original E3M5 theme fairly closely Antediluvian, vastly expanded upon it with additional id1 and/or custom textures Lose Tunnels, or others, who ran with the wind tunnels mechanic and created something very different Backsteingotik.

A perfect theme for a short mapping jam!

Below are the only requirements, few but significant:

- at least one exit
- original BSP limits
- vanilla id1 gameplay only
- non-ridiculous detail level

Why so? Because it's not the point of this jam to spend months on making a 100,000 brush masterpiece uniquely textured on every face. Also because the original Quake maps still look great in 2016, and the vague idea behind retro jams is to recreate their simplistic beauty.

You are recommended, but not restricted, to use this wad.

I will be accepting your finished maps at funcretrojam5 at gmail dot com until November 18th. Why 5 days to make a map? Because 4 was fine for retro jam 4, and the more maps, the merrier ;-) This also leaves a possibility for a weekend extension...
 
Question 
By original BSP limits, you refer to the "Normal Limits" on the BSP table from this page?

https://quakewiki.org/wiki/Engine_Limits

I just wanted to verify as I am ignorant in the original stuff when it comes to mapping. 
Fitzquake Limits 
Aka protocol 666.

I will not be accepting BSP2 (or 2PSB) entries. 
Ah 
Oh okay, whew...I am okay with old school detail and even the short deadline but was afraid I had to adhere to that static entity limit. (Nice break from my current 100,000 brush masterpiece that is uniquely textured on every face.)

I am going to play with some brushes and hope to have something to submit by the 18th! 
What The Hell Are You Going To Build In 5 Days That Breaks The 128 Sta 
tic entity limit? 
 
no one wants to participate in a jam organized by a hostile and abusive jackass who's entire contribution to the Quake community is an unlit unfinished map textured with cocks. 
Nice One Scampie. 
Did you already forget about your entry for the last jam I organised? 
Nevermind The Fact That RJ4 Was The Most Successful 
 
 
Yeah, I mapped in your last jam, and I still don't feel good about my association with you in the slightest, for the reasons I already stated and more. You are a pimple on the ass of the Quake community. 
Wow 
bit harsh. 
Pimple? 
I think you mistyped le pimp. 
Pleasantries 
I guess I don't know how many I usually use...

Anyway, this jam isn't for me I have been plugging on my current AD map for too long and I can't get the creative juices flowing for another map. 
 
another classic map to reference, "Rust In Peace" -- https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/grc4beta.html 
Well 
True, OTP is one of Func's very own anal warts.

But equally true, this is a good jam, eloquently laid out with a good theme and simple rules. And for that reason alone....you lot should be IN. 
Make Me Stuff! 
For some reason I read this as "Hey Guyz, I need some maps to play, can you make me some!?! thkx bye!" :P

I think the Quake community really needs people that makes content rather than just organizes it. As I have said before, if you organize a mapping event, you should at least enter it yourself! 
 
Bloughsburgh: Well, that's a shame, since I was partially hoping that a short jam would be a good sort of palate cleanser for people working on/coming off larger personal projects. Good luck with your map though!

Metl: Thanks for the link, I don't know why I hadn't tried "e3m5" as a tag on Quaddicted.

bler: Thanks for the objectively true statements (both of them bitches).

sock: I think you might be positively surprised by this jam :) 
Sock Go Map. 
 
Sounds Like 
OTP has a map in the works.

I'm too busy atm to contribute but it's a good theme!! 
Are Those M'kay? 
1) Color lights ?
2) Fog ? 
Yes To Both 
 
Progress Report 
Level: retro5_qmaster - "Trick Bricks"
Start Time: 11/15/16 18:00 CST

Base Geometry - 100%
Detail Geometry - 60%
Progession (Doors, exit, etc.) - 100%
Lighting - 0%
Items - 10%
Enemies - 0%
Secrets - 50% (2 so far)
Current Playtime: 2min.
Current time of writing: 20:42 CST

Pretty fun little map so far. Added something interesting for the last part to make use of the small space. I accidentally made this fit within 768 jam limits at first so I stuck with it.

Go map. No more excuses. 
Actually 
Make that:
Lighting: 75%
Current Time: 21:25 CST 
 
I am busy this and next 3 days. But I will make "something" even if I have only 1-2 days. So it is fine to make very abstract and simple design? And the focus is more in gameplay itself and not the look? Okay then* 
 
Where will it exit? Original Start.map? 
Bleh 
Well, that's a shame, since I was partially hoping that a short jam would be a good sort of palate cleanser for people working on/coming off larger personal projects.

I'm in.

50% brush work, 25% lighting, overall layout planned out.

I think the fact others are joining in made me change my mind. It will be nothing spectacular but it will interesting to see what I can come with in a very short amount of time. 
 
Bloughsburgh: Excellent!

NewHouse: Exit to whatever you want, I will not be creating a start map for this jam. 
@otp 
Does it have be episode 3 like map? Since I already starting making something different but it will have wind tunnels* 
#27 
I approve this, now go map. 
Progress Report 
Monsters 50%
Lighting 100%


2 more hours mapping. 
Weekend Extension? 
Monsters 33%
Lighting 33%
Secrets 33% etc...

1/3 done so far* 
Progress 
Brushes: 90%
Lighting: 25%
Entities: 10%
Vis'd: Check

I'll be ready by the deadline. (midnight of tonight or the next?) 
 
November 18th 23:59 I guess, but it should be November 19th 16:32:49 if we want to count full 5 days, lol :D 
Progress 
Brushes 95%
Lighting 95%
Entities 90%

Almost done. It will be a very short map.
I need some time for scripting, and more play testing.

There might be some bugs, but what would you expect* 
Expectations 
Either a long(ish) map with bugs and somewhat unfair item/enemy balance...
Or a short and sweet well polished gem. 
Please Note 
Length of a map should always be measured in time taken to play it, not "physical" length. 
 
It's not about how big it is, it's about how you use it.

On another note, hoping this Jam turns out well and i'm looking forward to playing the results. Sadly i've been too preoccupied with other things to participate myself.

(also I can be pretty slow and i'm a stickler for detail, so I'm not exactly sure how well i'd do with such a small timelimit!) 
Screen 
Just sharing a WIP screen for a room I found to be rather quakeish :)

http://www.quaketastic.com/files/screen_shots/mjb_air.jpg

*Lighting washed out from screenshot, blah blah* 
 
Hmmm, an upside down flame... Didn't even think it was possible in Quake. Wondering how Seven's particle flame will behave in that spot. 
Bam 
100% Complete

Now where do I submit this? 
Correction 
Now 100% complete. Found a bug in vanilla quake where setting both killtarget and target will cause it to ignore target.

42 enemies
2 secrets
616kb 
Progress 
geometry and texturing 100%

that's it.

I need to do all the triggering, entities, lighting, etc.

If I get time I will also add some more detail geometry. Wifey gets home tonight after a week away, I might not get it done by the deadline. I'll release it afterwards if I miss the deadline. 
 
Btw, it is 12:13. So before 24:00 I will send it to... otp? 
 
So to be honest I am not sure about these limitations, or how to even check it. I just trien to keep brush amount low, I heard some one saying something about 700-800 brushes.. is that still too much? 
NewHouse 
Just keep it to the standard 4096 boundary. Don't worry about the limitations like I did at the start!

Progress:

Brushes: 100%
Lighting: 80%
Textures: 90%
Entity: 50%

Will be done by tonight. 
#43 
Build BSP (not BSP2), run it in vanilla Quake. If it works you're ready to go, if not then optimize. 
 
Thanks, hopefully it runs (starts testing) 
Fun 
This was indeed a fun experience, since highly detailed brushwork design was not allowed, I focused what I would have done with that time on fun gameplay elements. :) 
Muy Bueno 
 
Fish 
Will the fish bug exist for this release? 
No 
 
To Clarify 
I will not be supplying any progs.dat with this release. 
Okay 
Wouldn't be retro without improper kill totals due to fishes haha.

Naming convention: retrojam5_xxx? 
One Question? 
Trigger_Push what spawnflag value makes it "start off", I tried 64 which worked for func_illusionaries at least? This is the ending part and want to have some control when to activate them. 
Start Off 
Hi Newhouse, there are two map hacks that might help you here:

This one lets you have a trigger_push which starts inactive, and begins working when triggered:
https://tomeofpreach.wordpress.com/2012/11/18/mid-map-entity-spawning/

If you need to turn the trigger on and off multiple times, you need the more complicated hack in this post:
https://tomeofpreach.wordpress.com/2015/11/19/toggleable-trigger_push/ 
Thanks Preach 
This time I only need to "Set On" them after some actions.

Also I experienced something weird with teleporting enemies, I don't use mods or anything, but when using Quakespasm everything was fine and they teleported with delay, then I tried same thing on Darkplaces and Ogres didn't teleported. I placed Ogres inside brushes (func_teleport) and then placed teleport_destination where I wanted them to teleport, I give them fairly enough offset as well. 
 
Nevermind, it seems that it wasn't working on darkplaces-sdl.exe but worked with darkplaces.exe. What is even difference between these other other than sdl is programmed by sdl?

Also fitzquake doesn't run on my computer, I can't even make it start to play original maps. But was able to test it on ReQuiem, Quakespasm and Darkplaces. 
Files Are Sent 
file names? retrojam5_yournamehere? 
Do We Still Have The Weekend? 
or is it over? Just asking. 
 
Want to make one too? 
Anyone In Their Right Mind Would Vote Yes. 
A nice cold grim wet early winter weekend of mapping, then a selection of fun little maps for the bleak dark evenings of the week ahead. 
Good Sign 
I would say this is a good sign I can consider my map suited to the retro fit.

http://www.quaketastic.com/files/screen_shots/mjb_air2.jpg 
What #60 Said. 
 
Yay, I Can Sleep! 
I'm not in my right mind and I'd still vote yes, so suck on that.

Didn't think I'd come up with anything for this jam, but after a couple days of aimless doodling, I had an idea that I liked and have been working on a map. Nothing revolutionary, but it's cute, and I'm having fun with it. Tonight would have been doable, technically, but two extra days of tweaking (and time to eat and sleep, like I'm a Rockefeller) is a godsend. Thanks! 
Cannot Submit 
No internet (stupid Frontier!) and I have plans tonight anyway. 
Qmaster 
OTP basically just agreed to a weekend extension. 
 
 
Nice! The shape of the ceiling with the girders reminds me of E4M4, so I guess it qualifies as oldschool. 
Great 
Cool stuck NewHouse! 
Phew! 
Still, I'm pretty stoked I made a map in 3 days, heck it was only 6.5 hrs total. 
Nice Shot 
Newhouse 
Submitted 
Done...I don't want to keep fiddle with things.

Thanks! 
Screenie 
Submitted 
 
Nice One! 
 
Looks Interesting* 
 
Almost Forget To Add Music And Name.. 
I resubmitted my zip it now has music and an actual name even. 
The Zip, She Is Away 
Still plenty of hours left in the day, but my map's as good as it's going to get and I don't want to keep pulling threads at this point.

Thanks to OTP for the jam, and good luck to everyone else who entered! 
Im Frantically Working To Get This One Done 
I'm pretty sure I'll get there, even if shit is a little rudimentary 
Any Chance For DLC? 
This thread kinda made me want to make a map for this. Don't know why I started to make one on the last day. 
Mail Sent 
I'm not happy with it. But it is there. 
Holy Fuck I Actually Finished A Map For This 
Good night everyone, hope my email was received. 
@otp @Breezeep_ 
Hopefully you didn't need to rush too much? I guess there is indivually some time to see if there is bugs or anything? But I will keep my the latest submission as it is now. 
Well Then. 
I have received a grand total of 7 entries.

Breezeep, NewHouse, QMaster, Shamblernaut: Please send me your source .map files as well to go with the pack. 
Map Files 
Why? want to copy me? (Just kidding) 
7 Maps HYPE 
 
So. 
Last minute jam, short timescale....7 entries...

no one wants to participate in a jam organized by a hostile and abusive jackass who's entire contribution to the Quake community is an unlit unfinished map textured with cocks.

GET....

For some reason I read this as "Hey Guyz, I need some maps to play, can you make me some!?! thkx bye!" :P

I think the Quake community really needs people that makes content rather than just organizes it.


....REKT. 
Hey Now... 
Be nice to sock at least. 
Map File Now Also Sent* 
 
NewHouse 
It's become common for jams to include sources of the entries, to give others a look into how the thing was built - in case the entry proves particularly inspiring.

I can make you an exception if you're really strongly against it, but it would be sad :( 
Why Did He Map For It Too?? 
 
Oh Ok Then 
 
 
Soon we can play these, I assume. 
Mapping 
I do it because it is fun. I got motivated to do this short deadline jam because I saw others opting in. I don't really care who organizes the jams, I just enjoy making maps and learning new things along the way (Which I did during this jam!)

Giving me a deadline helps me to actually fully realize a map from start to finish instead of poking it with a detail stick. That is why I gave myself a deadline for my personal project as well. 
@otp 
I sent it. But I really don't like the idea, since it is like releasing your own source code of you game before it is even released even* and it is not an excuse, because these are jam maps. Many jam maps can have a lot of things "artists" want to keep with themself, because after we all are a pretty selfish persons. 
Including Map Sources Is Not Mandatory 
 
Newhouse 
I have released the source to every map I have released... Most of the top mappers do this as a standard practice. 
Don't Want To Share My "private" Map Files 
I want to keep them save, and use them for the final releases. Then I might share map files, since then those would be actually finished (final releases). 
Newhouse 
I think you may be looking at this the wrong way.

For instance, there are numerous mappers here who I looked at their .map files to try to learn how certain brushes were created, or entities were set up. I know I looked at Sock's/Skacky/MFX and even id source maps to learn about many many things. Without those provided source files I may have never figured certain things out.

If a budding mapper or a (veteran!) uses my .map file to learn something new then I would be very flattered.

Now if they are re-releasing your map and selling it for drug money...then maybe there is an issue. 
@topmappers 
And I really don't want to follow others steps, sorry. 
@Bloughsburgh 
But then again, those are finished maps* 
 
It's an odd thing to withhold. 
Jam Maps Are By And Large Finished Maps 
 
 
I don't want to argue with you, and none of you aren't wrong. I just like to withhold things. 
Thats Fine, Bsps Can Be Decompiled Anyway. 
Sent my .map. 
If They Really Want To Do That, That Is Fine. (I Have To Give Up) 
only thing what I'm trying to protect might be that I'm really bad when it comes to making brush work in a right way. Not really into showing off my broken maps, so far there has been so many issues in previous jams. 
 
"And I really don't want to follow others steps, sorry. "

I mean like design-wise I don't want to copy others if possible.. but I do like to watch how for example sock/mfx made scripting for their maps. 
NewHouse 
it is like releasing your own source code of you game before it is even released
...So? It's not like you're gonna make money out of it, anyway. Community content is free and including sources is a standard practice with GPL/copyleft material. And as Bloughsburgh said, source .maps are a great learning tool.
And I really don't want to follow others steps
It's not about copying others, it's about learning how stuff is done. Also, if you do something the wrong way, a more experienced mapper could point you towards how to do it right for your future releases. Really, it's a win-win situation. Besides, if someone reaaaally wants to look into your map, he can decompile the .bsp without your consent (yes, this is wrong, but it's possible nonetheless), so withholding the .map is utterly pointless. 
@Mugwump 
Do you need to continue this further? Never mentioned about those you just said. I do maps just because I want to and it has nothing to with money. But then again you can use everything you do in the future for your portfolio, it really doesn't matter whether it is old-school stuff or not.

So please, no continue this any further? 
 
Fine, as you wish. I just find it a little unfortunate that you don't want to see the benefits of the practice. 
 
When did I said that? I practice from others maps, just by playing them. Is that something odd? 
 
"A practice" (noun) does not mean "to practice" (verb). The noun means "something people do". 
"27 New Posts" 
Reads the posts...

All chaff :( 
Who Cares In The End 
If NewHouse doesn't want to release his .map file then so be it. 
 
Is this even serious? Can't people nowadays say anything that doesn't please others. And yes, Mugwump, I'm not native speaker. 
@Mugwump 
English is not mother language. And I thought you knew that, since we talk a lot. 
OTP 
I found a bug in my level and re-sent you the files. Hope this is cool. 
Lucky 
I just had the other email open ;) 
Pencils Down 
Right? 
If It's A Bug Fix It's Fair Game 
 
Qmaster 
As a player, I don't think you want to unexpectedly fall through the geometry of my level. That was the fix, no features were added, no prettiness was added. 
 
@Shamblernaut We weren't just making small talk here. You don't think discussing the benefits of releasing the source is a worthwhile endeavour?

@NewHouse Can't people nowadays say anything that doesn't please others.
Calm your pants, man. I'm not mad at you, we're cool. You can do anything you want, including ignoring valuable advice provided for your own good... ;)
English is not mother language.
I know, which is why I kindly explained the difference to you. 
Mugwump 
compared to a release post, yes it's chaff =P
f5 f5 f5 f5

otherwise I would agree with you (the discussion, both points have their merits) 
Hey 
Give us some screenshots! If I can't play it yet, I want to tease myself with screenshots at least. 
Agreed 
 
There Were A Few Posted In The Thread 
 
Some Fresh Ones Please 
 
 
Wow 
That is freaking awesome!
Look at all of those unique interpretations!

Looking forwarding the shit out of this. 
These Three Knights Are Such Poseurs 
 
 
Whose map is it on the bottom left? Looks plenty atmospheric. 
Yay! 
looks cool 
Btw 
I would have participated in this jam if I wasn't finishing my map for ad 1.5 
 
Ooh, a new PuLSaR map for AD, neat-o! BTW, will Sock and you make another explore jam eventually? 
Mugwump 
It's not completely my map for AD, it's a collaboration with Ionous as well as with Sock who made the final boss fight (both area and the boss fight itself).

No plans so far on another explore jam as far as I know. We need to release AD 1.5 first. 
 
3 great mappers working together, I'm sure it's gonna be mucho tasty! 
It's Done! 
Awaiting moderator approval on the release thread, in the meantime, feel free to post in GA

Thanks for the maps and all the misc support! 
 
This thread has been closed by a moderator.
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