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Updated Q1SP MOD - Arcane Dimensions 1.5
Revamped version of the cutting edge next-gen AAA Quake mod with more STUFF and more MAPS, including:

1.5 Maps
--------
* ad_chapters - More themes and portals (Simon OCallaghan)
* ad_azad - The Realm of Enceladus (Maik Franz Xaver)
* ad_tfuma - Terror Fuma (Gavin Edgington/Eric Wasylishen)
* ad_magna - Leptis Magna (Noel Lacaillade/Andrey Saenko)
* ad_metmon - Arcane Monstrosity (Simon OCallaghan)
* ad_zendar - The Horde of Zendar (Simon OCallaghan)
* ad_sepulcher - *Not Available* (Henrik Oresten/Simon OCallaghan)

Download (200mb + 17mb Patch 1):
http://www.simonoc.com/files/ad/ad_v1_50final.zip
http://www.simonoc.com/files/ad/ad_v1_50patch1.zip

Screenshots:
http://www.simonoc.com/files/ad/ad_15_finish1.jpg
http://www.simonoc.com/files/ad/ad_15_finish2.jpg

Readme:
http://www.simonoc.com/files/ad/ad_v1_50_readme.txt
- which you really should read or sock will come round and beat you senseless, particularly since this ESSENTIAL information for players is hidden part way down:

Ammo Resistance
---------------

The Shell and Nail visual resistance is shown with a mixture of red and grey impact particles, a ricochet sound, various smoke chunks flying off
in random directions and the monster screaming in pain.

The Rocket and Cell visual resistance is shown with a small puff of smoke, a different rocket sound, small gibs of flesh (blood particles look odd), various smoke chunks flying off in random directions and a monster scream.

When a monster is hit with a projectile and they have ammo resistance they will ALWAYS ignore pain and not go into any pain animations.

Name Shells Nails Rockets Cells HP Effective
------------------------------------------------------------------
Golem --- 50% --- --- 500 1000
Minotaur --- --- --- 50% 500 1000
Seeker --- --- 50% --- 500 1000
Shambler --- --- 50% --- 600 1200

Stone Knight --- 50% --- --- 75 150
Stone Hell Knight --- 50% --- --- 250 500

Defender --- --- 50% --- 100 200
Eliminator --- --- --- 50% 120 240
Pyro --- 50% --- --- 100 200
Fumigator --- 50% --- --- 100 200

Boglord --- --- 75% 75% 1500 ---
Eidolon --- 75% 75% --- 2500 ---
LichFiend --- 75% 75% --- 2500 ---
Nour --- --- --- 100% 2000 ---

Chthon --- --- --- --- 2500 ---
Shub-Niggurath --- --- --- --- 2500 ---


Footsteps off:
Impulse 120

Pixels off:
Impulse 115
Congrats Guys 
 
 
holy shit, its like christmas. 
Missing Models? 
http://i.imgur.com/uGxDa51.png

Those two models showed up in TB2 as missing, and when I place the monster_boil it doesn't show up in game either. (I'm assuming it's meant to - I don't really know how it works :/)

They're not in my .zip that I downloaded either, so I don't think I screwed up extraction. 
Mon_boil 
will be included in the mod when ad_sepulcher comes available. 
Nice 
about to get back into Quake, fantastic timing! 
You Guys Are In For A Treat 
 
Hory Sheit! 
hory sheit!

thank you! 
Just Played Terra Fuma 
55 mins
213 / 222 kills
3/13 secrets

I got so lost, it was awesome.

Brobots are cool, nice "shield" effect. 
Mon_boil 
ijed is that what I think it is? 
Awww Shit 
 
Only In Nightmare 
Key: Nightmare
Value 1

Commence a truly nightmarish Skill 3 from now on! >:) 
Yoooooo00ooo)o 
ad_fuma : 47 mins : More than I was expecting / secrets : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33279452/daz_fuma.zip

God damn that was a sexy map! With a cool theme, and it felt alive despite the player! All the pest control enforcers etc. Wonderful. 
Two Demos 
Congrats on the release everyone!

Played 2 maps so far, Terra Fuma and MFX's map.

Terra:

Crazy amounts of exploration and unessential areas...interconnected like whoa. Poison space base theme is very unique and was a joy. I love that there can be poisonous variety of enemies with this release! Great brushwork and space vehicles!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b6baxcb2fpy72lk/mjb_terra.zip?dl=0

MFX:

I barely remembered this map from the jam so this was a real treat. Loved your secrets with the two special key types. Fun combat, fairly paced and a really cool fight at the end! Gorgeous work man!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ti3lqtiskdiwe7o/mjb_mfxad.zip?dl=0 
 
Hate to start with complaining, but the looping weapon animations bug is still present. Are there any plans to deal with it? 
Well. 
Somehow, I enjoyed 95% of Arcane Monstrosity this time, the 5% being the Bobs in the final battle (the only time I actually died). 
Couldn't Stop! 
Okay, more demos...Skill 2

Arcane_Monstrosity:

This AD revamped version is just incredible. This may be one of the most fluid levels I have ever played. Everything just connects to each other and exploration is rewarded...great pacing of combat just flipping great.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/thyw70h4a9ey91p/mjb_arcane.zip?dl=0

Zendar:

Again, the revamped AD version gives for some more breakables, enemy variety and other fun things. Not going to spoil but one secret leads to a REALLY interesting fight! Lovely as it was back then!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nl8oteyjtjx1dw5/mjb_zendar.zip?dl=0

This just leaves Ionous and Pulsar's map which judging by the kill count and secrets...is going to be a doozy. 
Terror Fuma 
47:43, 211/222, 8/13

It was certainly worth waiting nearly a year for this massive, moody map. Had this come out in 2015 it would have probably been the best map from all of AD. Great interconnection, especially in regards to visiting the same areas except a floor or two higher. Lots of cinematic moments involving vehicles. ;-)

Those slime champion monsters can fuck right off though. 
Holy Fuck. 
That new Scrag Boss is the fucking coolest and Quakest looking addition since Quake itself. That pisses all over 95% of custom additions for sheer style, quality and aesthetics.

Arcane Zendar - a hell of a lot tougher reboot than Arcane Monstrosity (although I only died twice at the Scrag) but as fun as ever. I took yet a different path to my other 3-4 vanilla playthroughs. New scrag AI is a bit annoying. New Ogre z-aware AI seems sensibly toned down. 
Terror Fuma, Skill 2 Demos 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9SGXU6l13PrajVVM2ZDaWpqRkk/view?usp=sharing

Holy balls. Gotta figure out how to get to the roof now... 
Azad 
Leptis Holy Shita 
Skill 2, 18/25 secrets and I got the mega secret!

This is the Swampy of 1.5 and by that I mean in terms of crazy secret hunting and dynamic combat. I spent almost half the time in the map just discovering new ledges and secrets and books. Great lore element and the mega secret was cool! I think it would be neat if getting the mega secret would make the final fight easier or something. A nitpick I have is the severe lack of shortcuts once you unlocked higher levels...I ended up just noclipping if I fell.

I liked seeing new enemies be used a lot more like the voreling vore, and minion spawning minotaur. The boss fight was really cool.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m0jpp3wap86ubd4/mjb_leptis.zip?dl=0

I'll provide more commentary on the maps and the new tools in general once I get acquainted to them. I am happy I still am in the development stages of my current AD map...I can include some of these fun new elements. 
Great Run Bloughsburgh 
You're a true ledge walker!

There are actually two super secrets in Leptis Magna: one from me and one from Ionous. You've found mine. One is still left to find.

btw you could have found at least one more secret if you hadn't nocliped. Maybe more. 
 
Regular nailgun consistently gibs shamblers. Doesn't feel right. 
Double Take 
Thanks PuLSar, I do not like noclipping and really I did not have to, but as you can see it was only done to save walk back time. I also paid for it with my life quite literally haha.

ANOTHER mega secret...wha wha what? Okay, looks like I'll have to dive back in, should have made a manual save! 
Terror Fuma 
More fooling around, to find more secrets... still haven't found all of them :D

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9SGXU6l13PrTGxMQU1iTGJlQWs/view?usp=sharing

Can't wait to play other maps tomorrow! 
Mon_boil 
I hope ad_sepulcher comes soon! Until then, I can't work with AD 1.5 :(

https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/1522

Well, I could work with it if this bug is fixed. It's a race to see which happens first! :D 
Just Rename Any Model 
to mon_boil.mdl 
 
What map is that?

Generate a .ent file...delete the conflicting entities...? 
 
ignore that. trenchbroom isnt gonna care about a .ent.

fifths got the right idea.

or perhaps try loading in JACK, delete the mon_boil and rename the .map 
@Fifth 
Thanks for that idea, it works. Now my mon_boils are bonepiles.

@mukor, there are no "conflicting" entities in the map. I haven't placed any mon_boil entities or anything like that. That's why I thought it was a showstopper.

I suppose something else I could have done would have been to edit the entity out of the .fgd, but I have no idea how feasible that is. 
 
http://imgur.com/a/Ao2pY

Deleting those should do the trick. Loaded fine in Trenchbroom for me.

A note, the issue you submitted is moot. Its already been solved. Im using a recent build provided by Ericw, and it just gives an error message in the issue box at the bottom of TB. No crash. 
 
How recent is your build from ericw? I'm using 3cb0140, which I got from them as well.

Interestingly, I only had to "fix" mon_boil - the icegolem never raised any issues for me. 
 
Im using the same build. Weird.

Glad we got it sorted out. Should probably get back to topic now. :P 
Pritchard 
Mark V And Quake.rc 
You can forget these three commands in quake.rc if you are using a recent version of Mark V:

max_edicts 8192
r_useportalculling 0
cl_beams_polygons 0


Max_edicts defaults to 8192 in Mark V v1.0 anyway, and just like the other two commands, it simply doesn't exist. 
New Here 
I saw this mod in rock paper shotgun some months ago. Since version 1.5 was due, i decided to wait,

and played rrp, honey and some others instead. i'm amazed. the level of quality is excellent.

i will be posting the demos later, first time playing the maps.

i played and recorded ad_e1m1 and e2m2.
very nice remixes

is there a way to continue to record a demo after quickloading? i was recording ad_e1m1 and stopped recording after a quickload. i died in e2m2, and played the level again from the begining and the recording was not stopped this time. 
Topher 
Im working on a solution but it probably involves learning QuakeC.

Youll have to start a new recording after loading/quick loading. 
Ad_tfuma ~ 1 Hour Boring Demo Play/analysis By Me 
Sorry, I thought it would be nice to use "say" command and point out my thoughts. I just want to be honest with these demos. I liked the map, that is more important. But to be honest, since the map is really long, even though shortcuts were well placed, the overall layout was too big for my taste to play it multiple times. Maybe after couple months I could try again, since a lot of details and work putting there and there.

Loved the poison/toxic theme there, and light was really moody. But I personally hate those poison spawns.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwxYkKdSD855bWtsWWFpc1RGOEk/view?usp=sharing

Also I think this new shambler's model/texture doesn't work, since it lost its mystery/scariness, because now you can see that it actually has teeth and elephant toes, really? When mapping ad maps, is it how easy to switch old models back if I personally want to do that. No offense it looks great and everything, it just isn't my cup of coffee. 
 
Also I think this new shambler's model/texture doesn't work, since it lost its mystery/scariness, because now you can see that it actually has teeth and elephant toes, really?

I think it was always pretty obvious that it has teeth.

Whether it has fur is another question. Looks like the author of the new model is of the "It doesn't have fur, you furfag" camp.

On a more serious note, the model does look a little weird to me. I think one of the reasons why is that it seems to be made with animation interpolation in mind. Becomes especially apparent during the death sequence (when the poor critter avoids being gibbed by nails). 
 
I'm sorry but I have to agree. It's a good model on its own but looks completely out of place in the game. 
Newhouse 
You can override the skin by using the "exactskin" flag as seen in line 1491 of ad_v1_50_readme.txt.

Open the shambler model in QME and youll see the original shambler skin is skin 0.

So for the exactskin flag youll want to enter 0 to make it the original shambler skin. 
What? 
That's not the original skin. 
Thanks Mukor~ 
Also dwere call me weird, but I always though Shambler was larger spider monster with the white sheet over, and feet were more like hooves and not elephant toes. That is why I love old textures since you can't really tell what you're looking at. Shambler's face was so blurred that is looked more like a spiders face with two big spikes. But these are just my personal believes about that monster, I can be wrong. 
Thought* It Looked* 
 
Misc_smoke Direction 
Any way to have misc_smoke point horizontal rather than only up? The .def shows it supports angles key and that you could tell it to target an entity for it to point to but nothing changes. 
 
Try up and down direction (-1,-2) 
Final Boss? 
The maps are amazing as usual, great update guys. Is there a final boss this time around? 
 
For the pedants out there:

For shamblers:

Use 0 with 'exactskin' for:

http://imgur.com/Cyd8Ycm

And 1 for:

http://imgur.com/vL63ff6 
No Smoking 
Thanks PulSar I tried angle -1 and -2 (Which would make sense now that I think of it) but the smoke only goes up...nothing has made it change direction so far.

Is there a map that uses a different direction of smoke? I thought terra fuma did but I can't open it in TB2. 
@mukor 
I was asking about the original skin/model? 
Bloughsburgh 
I remember there was a bug in my map when smoke was directed horisontaly, try angles -90 0 0 or 90 0 0 
 
If you very seriously want the exact id1/progs/shambler.mdl skin:

http://imgur.com/cN9wExt

youll have to edit the textures in ad/progs/shambler.mdl. 
Angles 
90 -90 0 got what I wanted...and then vice versa for the other way.

Sorry, I thought I tried that already but nope. Sometimes I just need someone to directly point at the obvious.

But thanks, this was rather integral for a gimmick in my map. 
Surely I Want~ 
 
Smoking Gun 
Okay,

Do want to point out that misc_smoke abides by the angles rule but only when using the angle (No s) key. This is probably not the intention but that's what is working. 
Double Smoke 
Been looking at stuff for too long.

Mr. Sock himself helped clear the room of thick air so thank you sir.

I got it, now I shouldn't run into this issue again.

angles 180 0 0 or 270 0 0 and so on.

you can also use info_target to be the pointer for the smoke. Never used info_target before but the name is rather appropriate.

Gah. 
Twitch Stream Going On 
Ad_magna, Skill 2 Demos Aka Get Rekt 
The vores that spawn vorelings are my favorite enemies in the mod <3

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9SGXU6l13PrNVp3UlV1VjVvSjQ/view?usp=sharing

Apologies for the size of the demos, but I need pretty particle effects in my life. 
Oooohh!! 
So excited! Can't wait to play when I have time. 
I Know That You Want Demos Of The New Maps Of Ad 1.5, But... 
all maps in skill 3

ad_dm5
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B72Jjyg-RfNFQ3JseE1ZV1FTeDA
ad_e1m1
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B72Jjyg-RfNFYmFlRWZsbjh3OUE
ad_e2m2
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B72Jjyg-RfNFR0x0MWdNWTJrYVU
ad_e2m7
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B72Jjyg-RfNFWlpYaER0cng2RGc

I played ad_dm1 but died two times and the demo is 45 minutes long, from now on i will quickload and start a new demo instead of restarting the map 
From The Header Post 
Stone Gargoyle --- 50% --- --- 120 240

Stone Gargoyles don't have ammo resistance. 
The Most Epic And Polished Quake Has Ever Been... 
3 maps played so far: azad, tfuma and magna, but yeah we should feel amazingly privileged that Quake is getting this much love poured into it (and I'm sure we do!) 
First Time Ever Posting Here! Here's My Play Of Terror Fuma. 
Amazing update for an already amazing mod! Can't wait to play through the other maps aswell!

The silent long play of Terror Fuma...
[49:28] https://youtu.be/KoM9S0I_ZCo

Thank you for the excelent mod! 
 
AD_Magma is driving me crazy.

I have 358 / 384 mobs
15 / 25 secrets (one of which I rocket jumped to before discovering the "proper" path.

I have no idea where the green serpent runekey is supposed to be used. It's driving me crazy. 
 
oh, in 141:23 including my massive (and unsuccessful) secret hunt at the end. 
 
That new Scrag Boss is the fucking coolest and Quakest looking addition since Quake itself. That pisses all over 95% of custom additions for sheer style, quality and aesthetics.

Just found that chap now. I think one of Lunaran's creations from that project he teased waaaayyy back? 
That Fucking Green Runekey. Tell Me About It. 
 
It Opens A Green Runekey Door. 
 
 
Boss Scrag model and animations are from Lunaran (Zombie Knights were too), but it's code is completely different in AD than it was in Lun's project. 
Serpent Runekey Door 
Is accessed via the same underground area where the key is. That gives you two rooms and a hallway to search. 
That Fucking Green Runekey Door. 
Up to 21/25 in....errrr.....3:15 hours. Only 7/25 during actual gameplay. The only thing I'm aware of I haven't got in is the "Opens from the other side" door in the lower swamp. One of the alcoves has an unlit torch but I can't get it to do anything.

As for the map, spectacular design, unbalanced gameplay. Early traps and later spawners needed more testing. I went from running around with 6 HP to having 2 YAs in a row, from passing 6 health pots to axing a Shambler with 20hp. The boss arena I couldn't make myself finish in one session and had to come back to it. The exploration on the upper areas was cool and the exploding room was brilliant especially as I'd just tossed a couple of Gs in there to get rid of wizards and did not expect THAT much destruction.

Now that fucking door.... 
Ionous, Pulsar 
in ad_magna I found a thing where grenades fall through the geometry, it's where the floor thing collapses.

a demo of said bug

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/108695968/hole.dem.zip 
Entrance 
Is in that small room with the locked door. And requires no special triggers to find... 
My Ad-magna Run + Swampy Question 
218:46 22/25 250/251.

Pheew! Let's Quake on sunday (aand monday!). What an epic adventure. This is no map. It's a maze! a full adventure GAME! Found the 'Serpent' Key quickly, but took me 2 more hours to finally access it! Thank you for this amazing puzzle experience. Final battle was to hard for me even on easy, until I found my way to the rafters... Gosh. Many deaths and quickloads but no demo, sorry. Believe me: I bow down to this magnum gift. Emotion and tears rush to my eyes facing how vivid and fresh the 'old' Q1 is still today thanks to the incredible creativity and patience of master mappers like you guys. PuLSaR and Ionous (love your dane), I give you my hottest burning Quake hug!

Last time I was sweaty like this after a Quake run was in Swampy!
And about Swampy I wonder if the last door to exit (4 runes found) is fixed in AD 1.5 on easy. In AD, I had to noclip my way through it to access the final slipgate. 
Gah. 
Cheers Ionous At Work. A rare secret that isn't a ledge jump or a button (I thought that was the theme of the secrets).

205:00 24/25 488/488 and that's enough for now. Will go back and do a skill 1 run at some point. 
Forgot To Say... 
Sock's new start map is wonderful! The design is the highlight of AD aesthetically....maybe. But really fucking cool anyway. 
 
I'm glad that the snowy Jam 2 map got reworked for this mod. It might be my favorite Quake map ever, only rivaled by Day of The Lords.

I thought the original was somehow more cozy than the AD version, but maybe it's just baby duck syndrome. The new final setpiece is very cool. 
That Secret 
requires to look at the direction nobody ever looks in quake. 
Old Maps For Old Gamers 
Somehow, I enjoyed 95% of Arcane Monstrosity this time
Yeah lots of subtle changes to the layout, more ground space, better monster timings and some new and old secrets. All the jims up to the final battle are much easier as they use a new height key system.

Arcane Zendar - a hell of a lot tougher reboot than Arcane Monstrosity (although I only died twice at the Scrag) but as fun as ever. I took yet a different path to my other 3-4 vanilla playthroughs. New scrag AI is a bit annoying. New Ogre z-aware AI seems sensibly toned down.
The extra garden event was added for players who played the original and would probably be playing on automatic by now. The ogres are setup different than normal with brown skin one's not having Zaware functionality and the metal ones are full on grenade to the head zaware!

Sock's new start map is wonderful! The design is the highlight of AD aesthetically....maybe. But really fucking cool anyway
Thanks man, very much appreciated. I did a mini 24hrs mapping crunch session to complete it before release, so its a bit rough around the edges. I assume everyone has tried the new start map while holding a rune? ;)

So I am planning a patch before xmas to address some of the code bugs and to include the final map for AD 1.5 The forgotten Sepulcher by Henrik which is a crazy bsp2 150K marksurfaces monster!

Some screenshots 1234

If anyone has ideas, feedback or constructive comments about stuff that should be fixed then please let me know. Also if you post any comments you got to tell me something you like about the mod at same time! Got to balance out the moaning! :P 
 
Haven't checked the thread to see if anyone mentioned this, but I found an issue with breakable pop-in in mfx's new map (the ikwhite jam2 remake). When I first descended into the underground area, some breakable wooden panels that some ogres are supposed to break didn't appear at first, but popped in when I got closer. Then the ogres (which I didn't see behind the invisible wood) broke them and gameplay proceeded as normal. No demo so you can't see for yourself, sorry. :( No other issues with breakables popping in that I found.

Aside from that, no complaints! If these levels aren't all over Kotaku, PC Gamer and RPS et al soon I'm gonna be disappointed. If not, well, maybe in a couple generations kids in universities will be studying these maps, if this civilization doesn't collapse first. ;) 
 
#80 - Same thing happened to me. :( 
 
We can't even beg a fucking retweet from Romero about Arcane Dimensions, fuck off with thinking of any games news sites to cover it.

As long as the actual Quake community plays it and enjoys it, that's all that's needed. 
The Lack Of Coverage Is Surprising And Unfortunate 
AD is of a higher caliber than many games, not to mentions mods.

Maybe AD just needs trendy, self-referential "hurr-durr it's teh 90s" type marketing so the kids will take notice. 
AD Needs To Be Made On UE4 With Awful Textures And Bloom Everywhere 
game journos will be sure to talk about it then. 
 
I don't think that expecting press coverage for every major update is very realistic. AD is a big deal in this community, but at the scale of the mainstream gaming culture it's just another niche.

People finding it interesting and talking about it from time to time is already quite good.

BTW, is bloom still being overused? I thought it was a late 00s thing, when the consoles weren't powerful enough for a passable level of detail. 
 
If anyone has ideas, feedback or constructive comments about stuff that should be fixed then please let me know.

My models aren't up-to-date.

Although if you want the SSG pickup to necessarily be blue, then I'll have to repaint the latest version, since it's brown.

Also if you post any comments you got to tell me something you like about the mod at same time! Got to balance out the moaning! :P

ad_magna is super neat. 
 
Can I ask what is the smallest / shortest ad map? 
Just A Quickie... 
I did a quick(!) run through the first 3 offerings yesterday night, fantastic stuff!!!
There's a couple of things about Leptis Magna that I'd like to point out, since a bugfix release is in the works.

After the exploding tower, before finding the gold key for good, I went for the rooftop to get all the stuff up there: after the first secret, going for the 2nd I saw it was possible to drop down and get the red armour encountered previously (I'm fairly sure this is not the intended way to get this secret).
Problem is, the only way down is now dropping in the courtyard but the Blue Key door is still sealed by the ambush grates and I have no way(did not find it anyway) of getting back up and resume the quest.
Had to noclip just so I did not have to start from scratch.
Later, though, I noticed that jumping on top of the exploded tower had it crumble a little more and doing so dissolved the ambush grates, is this intentional?
My guess is that the grates are meant to open/dissolve after the explosion of the tower, but somehow the deflagration did not destroy enough scenery to trigger the event... Hope this can be of some use... 
Under The Radar 
I think one of Lunaran's creations from that project
Yes indeed, the model is from lunsp2 (never released) and with Lunaran's permission for use.

3 maps played so far: azad, tfuma and magna, but yeah we should feel amazingly privileged that Quake is getting this much love poured into it (and I'm sure we do!) Thank you, very much appreciated.

I found an issue with breakable pop-in in mfx's new map
This is a MFX bug, there is a trigger there which enables the breakable. Not super critical and probably be fixed by MFX at some point.

If these levels aren't all over Kotaku, PC Gamer and RPS et al soon I'm gonna be disappointed
Mainstream media has no time for Quake Community made MODs, in the grand scheme of things we are just a niche community creating content for a long forgotten game. Quake is also too complex and annoying to setup for most modern people.

As long as the actual Quake community plays it and enjoys it, that's all that's needed Indeed! :)

My models aren't up-to-date
Not critical, the current models work fine. 
Tfuma. 
Great time playing this one. Died once at a Hunter that woke up when I went through a door next to it (not sure if that was indicated or not). The combat above the floating crane slime area was a bit awkward as was the Quad slime pit (but I should have got the obvious MH first, doh) but other than that some really cool gameplay in this. The plasma gun fight was spot on, and the end battle was cool that you could escape it - I had the small pipe so full of bodies and backpacks I couldn't see what I was shooting at. Really felt like the map rewarded keeping your wits about you which was satisfying.

Obviously the design was great as was the exploration. Not much to add about that! Some secrets were unmarked tho. Having the monsters fight the grunts was also really cool. 
Linked By Ericw Last Night 
https://www.twitch.tv/shotsfiredmarathon/v/102073710

AD top floor levels marathon in 19:30. I love the guy's commentary, he sounds like he's hardly played Quake and never seen AD before, kinda super-relaxed and obviously a good runner too... 
AD Publicity 
I can understand the frustration of major gaming news outlets not picking up the story of an updated Arcane Dimensions, to be honest I was surprised some of them picked it up when it was first released.

But this mustn't discourage you. While gaming news sites might not be spreading the news, other outlets certainly are. The same day AD 1.5 was released there was a large thread on /v/ talking about it, and praising it. I'm certain there are lots of people who keep up with Quake 1 releases of maps and mods who never post here, or may not even be aware this site exists.

In summary, there are more people playing the AD update then you think, enjoying the hell out of it and spreading it around as much as they can. 
Played Only Two Maps So Far 
tfuma and magna, love every bits of the aforementioned maps, i've found its more comfortable to play on skill 0/1, with footsteps sound off, and projectile off 
 
yeah cubeface is really good, the fact he beat swampy in 4 mins is totally badass 
Gah! 9/10 Secrets And Missing 2 Kills. So Infuriating. 
just finished the last of the maps (zendar)

it works really well with the AD progs & breakables.

So when it got time to fight in the garden I was not expecting that encounter, it was awesome. I was expecting a bunch of mobs, I was completely duped by the quad snailgun into expecting a shambler.

Thank you guys so much for the work you put into this. 
 
I can't get v1.5 to run in DP - using the 09.22.2016 autobuild. It loads the standard Quake start map instead. 1.42 works fine (played map jam 8 with this build). 
Pro Tip 
don't use DP :P 
DP 
is a target engine. Make sure you have a completely clean build. 
 
When I say clean build btw make sure no leftover configuration files and have a brand new installation 
What Error? 
Sock tested all maps load in dp.
Also might try updating your nightly build. I think the latest is from November? 
Negke Tfuma Right Now. 
https://www.twitch.tv/negke

If it's as derpy as E2M2 Remix, viewers are in for a treat :) 
Hold My Fucking Beer 
Coming in r40 mins 
So. 
How much beer did you guzzle during the Magna drinking game? 
 
ad_dm1
skill 3
19:39 ; 6/8 secrets ; 115/143 monsters ;; 0 deaths
third attempt, i erased the previous attempts. or rather, recorded the new demo with the name of the old one.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B72Jjyg-RfNFNS1la25pMXBSSlU

ad_necromancerkeep
skill 3
58:54 (+~11 min the first attempt); 6/12 secrets ; 310/310 monsters ;; 2 deaths
those fire wraiths are my perdition. brutal...
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B72Jjyg-RfNFNXV6eHgzNEtlRjA

ad_crucial
skill 3
56:44 (+~30 min the first attempt); 9/10 secrets ; 243/243 monsters ;; 4 deaths
two deaths in the lava, one by a grenade enforcer and one squashed by a secret door (!)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B72Jjyg-RfNFWFlXbnBJNllDOHM 
Magna Drinking Game 
Two bottles. But if I had taken a sip for every fucking newly-spawned voreling, I'd be in a coma now. 
The Thing I Like About The Maps 
is that they have a "quakeyness" in general

in 2008 i played travail and the second and third levels didn't feel quakey. after thinking a little bit i now get what i don't like: open empty spaces. the outdoor areas of the second and third map feel empty. and i'm not talking about monsters placement. the indoor areas are ok.

the maps can be gigantic like the maps from rrp and still not feel empty

i didn't see empty areas in arcane dimensions either

i also like the mix between real life architecture and the orignal style of quake

the start map of ad1.5 is a superb example of that 
This Fills Me With Sadness 
The progs won't compile.

************ ERROR ************
compilation errors
Error in traps_pendulum.qc on line 16

I'm using the latest win32-fteqcc.exe. 
 
Paid attention to what I thought were warnings.

mon_bossicegolem.qc:951: error: function iceg_transB13 has no body
mon_bossicegolem.qc:951: void() iceg_transB13 is defined here

Compiles fine now. I don't feel like thinking about how pendulums connect to this. 
FAO SOCK. 
In case I post a bit of constructive criticism later on, here's some things I love about AD:

New effects: fog, coloured lighting, particles, smoke, sparks, skyboxes, vines, cables, glass etc. These are all great, the style and general quality of them enhances Quake perfectly (unlike when super HD textures are thrown in for no reason).

Breakables: really fun, look good, and can been used well in so many different ways, from traps to simple secrets to spectacles like in Magna.

Gibbable Bodies - a small thing but I'm having a lot of fun keeping these maps clean and pristine by, errr, tidying up after combat. A small, simple addition that is just fun.

The general design quality of the maps that have been included, the high standards you've encouraged from the mappers, and the high standard usage of the features listed above (no fucking disco lights here). In particular the prominence of exploration and secrets.

The new start maps, just beautiful.

Zombie Knights, very cool, a perfectly themed addition.

Phong shading and new lighting....stuff. Those pillars in Azad, mmmmm.

Toning down the worst of Quoth Base enemies excesses. Very welcome. Even if I still get shotgunned THROUGH corners. 
ALSO. 
Some things I generally mostly like:

New ammo boxes - nicely themed.

New items in general - all well done. New weapon models look sweet.

Blood Axe - I like the functionality of it, although I prefer the Zer chainsaw overall, the axe is a bit standard fantasy.

Triple shotgun - again I like the utility of it and the model is decent. I would prefer for consistency if it fired a vaguely triangular spread.

Plasma gun - it just works.

New monster skins in general - not the updated models per se but most of the updated skins especially the base ones. Nicely done and fit in well.

New sounds - drips, creaking, etc, again all fit in perfectly.

Some of the new monsters are pretty neat gameplay-wise. Gargoyles are always fun, Golems are decent to fight, vore mamas are pretty cool. Hunters and Eddys too, they add some nice beef to bases.

There might be more. 
TEH MOAR 
Increased amount of gibbing - fun.

Armour shards from backpacks - useful.

Crossbow knights - they're okay actually. Attack visibility is useful.

Candles.

How Quakey most of the new map aesthetics are. (Even if only in proportions but often in general style even if they're a lot more advanced from vanilla maps).

The design effects of almost all new monster attacks are cool and very consistent with Quake (even if when monsters aren't).

Shotgun grunt projectiles being dodgeable. 
What Smabler Said 
I'm not convinced of the sharp shooter powerup, though. Not only isn't it immediately obvious what it does (should have been called "shotgun sharp shooter" perhaps), I would think its usefulness is limited, not least because the regular shotgun already is half a sniper rifle.

I would've prefered if it also added something to all other weapons or the combat in general, for instance removing the damage resistances for the duration, so that you can shoot every monster with every weapon without penalty, grenades don't bounce off and scrags don't dodge rockets etc. 
Sharp Shooter Powerup 
I think I have only found this a couple of times ever, either that or I don't remember it.

I think the idea of focusing the shotgun spread is cool, but it's a bit of a weak effect for a timed powerup. Maybe it could behave as more of an ammo upgrade? I.e. when collected, the next X shells fired have a tight spread, so it depletes based on shell consumption, not time. Then maybe when active, the shotgun skins could be slightly different for visual feedback, rather than it being a screen tint. 
 
Oh and also I kinda like negke's idea of making it ignore shell damage resistance as well. 
Same Thoughts Apply To The Nail Piercer Too 
 
AD For Mapping 
As far as AD for mapping I really enjoy:

-Entity state system (One of the best features)

-Lots of variety for monsters/items (Exact
skins/frames/spawnflags)

-Particle templates

-Custom keys

-Textbook elements

-Player_start spawn2

-Lots of models to choose from.

-Nightmare only key...This is just devious! >:)

-func_bob...and now, misc_bob!

-Oh and of course breakables, the breakable spawner and the ability to create your own debris.

The list goes on, the entity state system allows for some really dynamic gameplay moments! 
Full Circle 
I can understand the frustration of major gaming news outlets not picking up the story of an updated Arcane Dimensions, to be honest I was surprised some of them picked it up when it was first released

This happened because I pushed it! I wrote endless emails, tracked down journalists and constantly tweeted about the MODs development. I know people here are not much into Twitter, but it is a good way to communicate nowadays. There was even tons of twitter fans who let magazines know they liked the MOD to get the word out there.

Probably the hardest thing I had to realize was that even with all the emails and tweets, hardly anyone was really paying any attention. I originally assumed the lack of response was because its Quake, but when machinegames released Episode 5, nearly EVERY games news site covered it! probably the question here is, why is that? :P

Nowadays I don't care as much about the marketing to game news website because AD is well liked within the Quake/Doom communities and people are looking forward to the new releases. There are new people turning up all the times on Quake forums and ultimately that is what its all about, new people and new ideas.

I can't get v1.5 to run in DP - using the 09.22.2016 autobuild. It loads the standard Quake start map instead.
If the original start map is loading then the mod directory is not being used. I do not recommend nightly autobuilds because they are often experimental. AD 1.5 does work with DP (2014 version) and I recommend you contact the person generating that autobuild for help.

derpy as E2M2 Remix
I know AD_E2M2 can be cruel gameplay on hard skill, but I assumed at this point everyone has played the original a lot and will want a greater challenge! Personally I love the architectural style and flow to the map, the gameplay is certainly not everyone's cup of tea, but there is also lower skill levels, use them! :P

the mix between real life architecture and the orignal style of quake
I often use real world architectural examples in my map because they can represent a weight and familiar structure for players to understand. A sprinkle of photo source references can do wonders for inspiration and details in maps.

The progs won't compile
The progs does compile, you need to take this up with Spike as its his compiler. I have been using the same version for several years, which if the newer versions has changed could be a problem.

In case I post a bit of constructive criticism later on, here's some things I love about AD
It is always good to hear what works just as much as what does not work. The counter weight of opinions gives me a better understanding of what stuff is really liked and a better idea of what stuff to develop further. People constantly telling me what stuff they don't like is really just an endless shit sandwich!

I'm not convinced of the sharp shooter powerup, though
The Sharpshooter and Nail Piercer are situational powerups. They are also pretty bad Quake powerups because they don't work with all weapons. Just like the powerups in Quoth, nobody understands AD powerups easily and they often result in boring gameplay. It is no easy task to create generic powerups that work across multiple weapons, look recognizable, are easy to understand and create fun gameplay!

I think the new AD powerups should be deleted! I liked the idea of them on paperwork, but their implementation is terrible. Creating new Quake powerups needs more time, discussion and thought to really work.

ignore shell damage resistance
Shell resistance does not exist on any monsters anymore. Ammo resistance is probably the most contentious addition to the MOD, even more so than projectile shotguns!

I like ammo resistance because it encourages players to think about combat encounters more and switch weapons! Unfortunately many players want Quake to be pure action with (any) guns a blazing. I misunderstood the spirit of Quake and expected everyone to embrace RPG style ideas. 
FWIW 
The progs does compile, you need to take this up with Spike as its his compiler. I have been using the same version for several years, which if the newer versions has changed could be a problem.

When I first tried to compile AD progs, my FTEQCC was actually obsolete, so I had to update it, after which everything worked.

Now I updated it again after seeing it not being able to compile v1.5, but nothing changed. The problem disappeared when I turned "iceg_transB13" (which didn't seem to reference anything) into "iceg_tranB13". 
@sock 
First, AD is the best Quake mod of all time. 1.5 is better still yet. Absolutely Fantastic!

AD Powerups: I somewhat agree that they are very underpowered. I for one didn't know what they did when I first played AD. I didn't even know they were two different powerups. Sharpshooter is a cool idea but has very very limited use. Time based makes it less useful. I pick it up just to clean up the map. Perhaps if nails and rockets homed in on enemies it would help, and even maybe grenades could bounce towards enemies of their own accord.

Shotgun Resistance:
YES!! You have no idea how satisfying it was to blast a drole with my Widowmaker just now! I still like the other resistances for nails and rockets. Lightning and plasma, mmmm meh.

This is so awesome!! 
 
I think the new AD powerups should be deleted! I liked the idea of them on paperwork, but their implementation is terrible. Creating new Quake powerups needs more time, discussion and thought to really work.

I tend to agree that removal is preferable in this case, simply because there's so many awesome new features, that it's probably a good idea to clean out the things that don't work, so as not to keep accumulating "mod clutter" :} 
Powerups 
Choosing whether or not to use them and using them effectively is a problem for the mapper.

I think that the sharpshooter powerup works fine, it just needs to be used in the right encounters with the right weapons.

Having said that...

If you think about that particular powerup, what does it offer that a nailgun doesn't? The only thing I can think of is the lack of nail resistance. Now if more damage spread weapons are planned for the future, then this powerup may also effect them, in which case, yeah, it will probably offer something significantly different.

IMO there shouldn't be many overlaps of powerups.

The original 4, ring (enemy manipulation), quad (damage boost), biosuit (damage mitigation) and pentagram (damage mitigation) each offer pretty different perks without a heap of overlap. Maybe a little overlap with damage mitigation, but one of those is environmental only.

The questions that need answering I think are: What domains aren't covered by the above? What powerups would fit into these domains? Will they break the game if we include them? Will they make the gaming experience more fun?

Thanks for listening to my rant. And please don't see this as a criticism of this mod, it isn't. 
Particle Effects 
i also love the particle effects
rounded dots, solid color

it just works. they're perfect and beautiful

i find them aesthetically much better than the "enhaced" particle effects of darkplaces or qrack.
leave the fancy smoke and spark effects to modern games

i would like to see particles coming from lava and slime pools, altough i don't know if that would be too taxing

and about power ups... i tried to use the nail piercer and it's more trouble than it's worth, trying to get to position to fire when enemies are aligned 
Anarchy Powerup 
All aggroed enemies (+ any new enemies that aggro during powerup duration) attack a random other enemy

/brainfart 
 
Simon used the Sharpshooter best in AD_Mountain: it's just an item out in the open before an encounter, a small bonus for that fight, rather than something that should be hidden away in a closet as a big reward like most of Quake's powerups. I think Nail Piercer is the same, just treat it as something to use as a bonus for a single fight.

---

Originally when these powerups were created, I suggested they be treated like Doom's Berserk powerup: lasts for the duration of the map. That would put them into the category of needing to be hidden and powerful items to find in secrets... but that's possibly not a bad thing as sometimes it's tough to give a nice reward to a secret without it being wasteful. 
 
I'm in agreement with #124, I think these two powerups work far better if left in the open rather than tucked away somewhere. 
But That Applies To All Powerups 
As proved by Episode 4. 
I Like The New Power Ups 
I think they have a unique enough functionality to keep.
Poor use could be blamed on the player or the map designer but not the powerup IMO.

AD is still early days and even the AD team have not fully realised the potential, myself included. 
Instagib Axe Powerup. 
 
That Would Be Pretty Funny 
All weapons are locked except the axe but you kill everything in one hit for a short duration. 
A Powerup That Brings Back The Backstabs From ITS 
 
Speaking Of Powerups That Suck 
Has there ever been a good use of the Ring of Shadows in any Quake map, ever? 
Ring Of Shadows 
is great in multiplayer. I think Sandy Petersen used all the powerups best, he used them liberally, openly and in very fun ways. 
Pain Maze 
I think the RoS was used well in the Pain Maze. 
 
is great in multiplayer

Ah yeah, forgot about that. I guess you could also include SoA's Empathy Shield as stuff that's kinda meh in SP but works in MP.

The Ring of Shadows would be a lot more interesting and worthwhile in SP if you could use it to hide from already aggro'd monsters. 
 
Ring of Shadows working a bit like it does in ITS might be interesting? 
 
Ring of Shadows is grear in Zendar. I also dare say it's pretty useful in my retrojam3dlc map. 
Great* 
 
ROS 
Hmm, de-agro affect would be neat. Wouldn't hurt balance of old maps either since most rings are hidden away anyhow in those maps. 
 
The questions that need answering I think are: What domains aren't covered by the above? What powerups would fit into these domains? Will they break the game if we include them? Will they make the gaming experience more fun?

Well, there's movement.

Speed powerups always annoyed me though. I had an idea of a powerup that would allow the player to slow down their fall when the jump key is pressed, though it wasn't a timed powerup, but rather a permanent upgrade. The next upgrade would allow to either hover indefinitely or even ascend slowly.

Such things need a lot of caution from the mapper though. For example, Tronyn's releases based on Drake usually have this problem when you can easily fly to the edge of the world (or really high) and see that the "world" is just a square with everything beyond a certain threshold cut off.

The Ring of Shadows would be a lot more interesting and worthwhile in SP if you could use it to hide from already aggro'd monsters.

This is the main problem with RoS in SP.

Being strategic in Quake is hard and unrewarding, because most of the time you can't know exactly what the next encounter's gonna be (unless you count savegames). So the best use of powerups is when the shit already hit the fan and you know how and why to use a powerup that's presented to you. Any other situation is just guessing.

Except RoS is completely useless when the shit already hit the fan.

Maybe it could be enhanced by throwing enemies' aim off, like it Doom. Just not projectile enemies'. Or, in the case of AD, slow projectile enemies'. 
Movement Powerups 
Nehahra had a Flight power up that let you fly when you jump. 
Powerups 
gravity modifiers are always interesting, although proper situational use probably means togglable low-gravity volumes rather than powerups, although I guess it could also be useful for time limits while jumping around secrety areas. it could also double up as a handicap if you're not careful.
(eg: hipnotic)

one other alternative powerup would be a repulsion field powerup. knights, fiends, dogs, grenades, etc would be pushed away from the player which if nothing else might make QDQ style gameplay a little more interesting.
maybe combine it with low gravity and death-pits to push monsters into...

or possibly just a powerup that electrocutes nearby stuff (a bit like q2's bfg). just make sure it also shoots+triggers buttons even when you might not want it to, so that it makes things interesting.

another possibility for a powerup would be an attack speed one.
you might also be able to rocket-jump a bit higher, so watch out for that.

one way to make sharpshooter more interesting would be to have it change depending on which weapon the player is currently using, something a bit like hexen2's tome of power. axe attack speeds, more precise shotguns, bouncing nails, cluster nades+rockets (yay rogue!), chain lightning, I dunno, probably a nightmare to test.
or if you don't change the powerup itself, just make it impossible to grab unless you're using a weapon that it can actually affect.
maybe also stop weapons from costing ammo for the duration, which might give it a use even when the player has a rocket launcher.

imho, flight is too open-ended for most maps, whereas I kinda view the use of movement speed powerups as an admission that the map is too long and boring. hexen2... *shudder*

or maybe just let the monsters grab the powerups too... I can think of a number of maps that would make that repulsion field thing interesting when held by a monster... racing monsters to the pent's spawn spot might also be interesting... vores with quad... *shudder*. enforcers with biosuits that you need to kill quickly to avoid dying...

just ideas. ideas are cheap. its implementing+maintaining them that costs time.

@sock, re qcc:
sounds like a typo in AD. older versions of fteqcc (but not other qccs) had a bug that caused them to not check properly. if you really want that old behaviour you should just redeclare your function as var and assign to it somewhere, otherwise its a guarenteed crash when you call it. 
Sock: DP Feedback 
So, I got 1.5 to run in a clean DP install and it seems to work fine. However, all the on-screen text (including console and HUD ammo counters) is displayed on a black background, which is quite unaesthetic. And before you claim my install is at fault, I briefly tested with clean installs of several builds including 20140430, the previously mentioned September 22 autobuild and the very latest from November 27. It happens in all builds but didn't happen at all with v1.42. I don't know what you changed but the issue seems to be on your end and a fix would be nice. Please?

I'd also like to report another minor issue that was already happening with 1.42 and still does with 1.5: the menu background image doesn't show up.

Oh BTW, your readme isn't up-to-date regarding versions of listed engines, especially DP for which you still recommend a 2.5-year-old build (also, your statement about DP no longer being in development is just plain wrong). I understand that you wouldn't want to recommend an autobuild but the latest beta is the 20160910 build - necessary for alpha masked textures as your current recommendation doesn't support them. Mark V came out of beta stage very recently and even QS has incremented its version number. 
Going To Be Playing Through This In About 12 Hours 
https://www.twitch.tv/ionous

Thanks to people out there that commented, criticized or otherwise posted thoughts on AD_Magna. 
#131 
I think the RoS can be useful if it can be grabbed *before* a big fight with monsters the player hasn't aggroed yet. I tried to use it that way in my map: you can grab it in a secret before dropping down a hole to the final fight arena, which gives you some time to get your bearings and maybe grab another secret... but if you drop down without the ring all hell breaks loose immediately.

Whether that is a good use of the RoS is up for the player to decide, not me, of course, but that was my line of thinking. 
 
Mugwump, it sounds like your getting exactly as the readme states - "partial support" 
 
The problem is: it was fine with 1.42, not anymore. Surely, less compatibility isn't something anyone, users and coders alike, would want in an update... and it's probably not very hard to fix. 
 
The problem is: Using Darkplaces. 
Separate Maps 
200Meg is a lot for my poor connection. Are the maps separately available anywhere??

Cheers

Doc 
ROS. 
ROS is cool, I like it. It allows you to scope out an area and prepare for ambushes, collect supplies or weapons in advance if you're low, trigger spawning monsters without aggroing them. Lots of potential. 
Moar RoS 
Speaking from personal experience of RoS, I always felt it sucked because the gameplay would always pan out as follows:

"Oh cack a load of monsters ahead of me, I'll grab the RoS"

/grabs RoS

"Now I'll just walk past all these monsters and find a nice covered position beyond them from which to launch my attack"

/hides as RoS wears off

"Now I'm in a good position but there's a whole new shitload of monsters ahead of me to complement all the ones I avoided initially who are behind me, so in reality I've just trapped myself in an enormous reverse shit sandwich where I'm a nice virginal slice of soft-batch loaf wedged between two huge walls of poo that are rapidly closi-" [dies instantly]

Pretty much every time. 
That Said 
It just needs carefully tailored level design - e.g. It would work in areas where you are supposed to trigger environmental traps to soften up an unreasonably dangerous set of enemies before opening fire on the stragglers. 
Start Map, Saves 
I was a little surprised that the start map was not changed and instead a second one introduced, but then it occurred to me, if I load my old saves in older AD, get back to the start map, save, could I load those saves in AD 1.5 since the start map is the same, and preserve my runes? or should I just learn the console-foo to give me whatever runes I earned and move on with my life? 
Kinn. 
Assess nice covered position, retreat if there is a whole new shitload of monsters ahead, attack current monsters with knowledge of their positions and supplies, then re-advance to planned nice covered position?? 
RoS 
Level design needs to take it into account, you can't just throw a RoS and call it a day. 
Last Video Post, I Don't Want To Spam. 
So i'll be making more videos on the AD1.5 maps i just won't be posting them here.
I felt bad for not "contributuing" anything to the Quake community, so i decided to record myself playing through the maps. Hopefully the map makers will get something out of it :). Love the new update so far, keep up the amazing work!

This second video is a bit more edited just so it isn't so boring.
https://youtu.be/6gGnwEJGSLA

Thank you guys again for making this excelent mod! 
Offline 
Cool videos, keep 'em coming 
DP Shenanigans 
all the on-screen text (including console and HUD ammo counters) is displayed on a black background, which is quite unaesthetic
Delete the conchars.lmp file under gfx folder.

the menu background image doesn't show up
What should be the name of the file for the background image?

your readme isn't up-to-date regarding versions of listed engines, especially DP for which you still recommend a 2.5-year-old build
If you go to the DP download page under the heading "Latest stable/official release" there is the 2014 build. This is the DP site recommendation. 
Different Files 
200Meg is a lot for my poor connection. Are the maps separately available anywhere
Too many assets have changed to create a difference build. This is essentially a new version and should exist separate from previous versions of AD.

start map was not changed
There is a new portal to 1.5 content.

I load my old saves in older AD, get back to the start map, save, could I load those saves in AD 1.5 since the start map is the same, and preserve my runes
I don't recommend using previous savegame files because the progs (Quake Code) is different. There are no runes in 1.5 update maps. 
Sock 
1) Yes, it works, thanks. This should be in the readme.
2) I suspected it could be a naming issue, it's a good question and... I have no clue. I tried looking into it but I can't seem to find the file either in \id1 or in \ad, not even in replacement content .pk3s or in my QS install... I'll need a little more handholding on this one.
3) Yeah... the DP site isn't exactly maintained as it should. You need to go into the files subfolder that's of course not accessible via on-screen menus... convenient, isn't it? Correct links:
DP: https://icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces/files/?C=M;O=D (I think it's possible to link the latest beta zip directly but this link will at least show it near the top of the list)
Mark V: http://quakeone.com/markv/

----------

Like Jonathan, I too expected an expanded start map instead of a portal to a secondary one. Speaking of, where did the teleporter to the final level go?

A while back, I suggested that you make the unused test12 teleporter return to the main start map and it's great to see that you did it. However, I seem to remember a talk that happened around that time in the old thread about the statue gibs being bloody and unfortunately, they still are... Doesn't make sense.

Anyway, congrats on the release. Your high standards in quality requirement seem to have paid off again. I've only played Leptis Magna and Terror Fuma so far and they're among the best maps I've ever played. The Hunter is a great addition to the base bestiary and on all counts much better than "I-belong-in-Q2" Edie. Really not a fan of the pink recolor of the vore/voreling variants but I love their new attacks. One thing I've noticed is that now the total monster count increments with each extra monster spawned. Small details like that are the best proof of the aforementioned high standards. 
Monster Counts From Spawners 
Ya I ended with 467 kills on magna. Still can't find the last secret, 24/25. Playing azad until I go back for more noclip searching in leptis....

Egad! Azad is really detailed! Love the mood, spot on ambience, lighting is superb. 
 
Can't find the last secret either, even when noclipping through the map. Has anyone found 'em all yet? 
Noclipped All Over 
No luck. Careful around the "The Secret of Leptis Magna" after you've beeen there or you'll noclip yourself to death (probably an e.state activated trigger).

If there is another stupid box on a wood board in a ceiling I'm going to be ticked. Those are the absolute hardest to find because, for some unknown reason, all engines except DP hide any entity models when outside the map. 
Right Some Suggestions / Fixes In No Particular Order. 
Monsters repeat pain sounds on death, this is confusing!

Transparent textures (e.g. vines) broken in Fitz.

Test 2 Rotation And Exploration arena combats broken in Fitz although map loads.

Get some occasional flashes of skybox / fog through architecture in many maps (not sure what triggers this).

Burning / Poisoned effects far too strong and distracting.

Shotgun projectile colours and shell eject get in the way of seeing if you're shooting a breakable secret at a distance (too many particles/colours)

The amount of detail in some maps can make secret-hunting more frustrating - so many broken areas, fancy light fittings, jutting blocks etc etc. Consistency is needed (e.g. walls with cracks in, Magna's blood blocks, etc)

Ammo resistances - obscure, sometimes illogical, and sometimes unnecessary.

You need to encourage mappers to provide shortcuts back up to upper levels on tall complex maps.

Mixed knight sounds for stone knights are confusing and unsuitable. 
 
Transparent textures (e.g. vines) broken in Fitz.
This sounds like an engine-side bug. They look fine in both DP and QS.

Agreed on resistances. It doesn't make sense that some monsters would be resistant to rockets but not to mere shotgun pellets. 
As For The "Is It Quakey" Issue. 
There's no subjectivism about this.

Quake monsters are weird, unusual, and original. They have specific counter-intuitive features like 3 legs, no eyes, claws instead of fore-legs, no means of flight, vertical mouths for a face etc etc. Obviously there are some classic humanoid monsters mixed in, but the defining aesthetic feature of Quake's bestiary is it's unusual monsters.

AD monsters, overall, are not Quakey in the same way. They generally either focus on the classic humanoid side of the bestiary (multiple knights / grunts / crossbowmen / statues) or are straight out of fantasy / mythology (minotaurs / golems / wizards / spiders / scorpions / imps). They simply do not have the same weirdness and original features described above. Obviously there are some exceptions like Vorelings, Vore variants, Scrag Boss, and to an extent the Gaunts (even these have wings which is too....normal for Quake). The same applies to the sci-fi selection - mostly humanoid, a few automatons which vary in their Quakeiness.

This is not a critical or qualitative judgement, it's just a fact about the Quake bestiary aesthetics vs AD bestiary aesthetics. The new monsters may indeed be wonderful gameplay-wise, higher quality models, more internally consistent overall, more suited to the stronger themed fantasy/sci-fi style modern Quake mapping etc etc. As a fantasy/sci-fi extrapolation of Quake they may indeed have many great qualities.

Subjectively I personally prefer the Quake aesthetic and the sheer weirdness of it has always appealed to me (hence the username huh). I would like AD more overall if it was purely Quakey and less normal fantasy (/sci-fi).

BUT.

That isn't going to happen. This is Sock's vision and Sock's extrapolation of Quake. A lot of the other visual features, as well as the modern map styles, fit a middle ground between Quake and fantasy (skulls, candles, etc), and AD's execution of this direction of Quake is pretty excellent. So I'm not going to say "make it more like what I want" in general (I might lapse in this). So my comments above have been a bit more specific/functional. 
AD Doesn't Support FitzQuake Guyz 
I thought this was obvious. 
Arcane Monstrosity. 
This was a funny one because I replayed the original about 3 weeks before AD 1.5 went out (for some reason I decided to go fully stealth mode and go as far as I could without waking any Bobs up).

The AD version felt different in a way I can't quite describe. It felt smoother and flowing better than the original. I definitely found the secrets in this one more rewarding than in the original, and more logical too. (Though, the first Nailgun not being marked as a secret while the Super Nailgun was??)

101/101 monsters, 10/10 secrets 
PS. 
For a map that would benefit from a Sharpshooter powerup, it was oddly absent. 
PPS. 
Parubaru rated this a 1 on Quaddicted.

README NOT AUTISTIC ENOUGH FOR ME!!!!! 
 
i second what shambler says about the shotgun shells. the yellow and orange pellets in particular are what confuse me sometimes

but i don't mind the burning/poisoning effects

and i like the ammo resistances. it's a little weird the resistance for cells in minotaurs. in my opinion. the nail resistances are spot on, and make perfect sense.

how hard is tweaking the code to make small changes?
for example: homing scrags projectiles, faster crossbow bolts, better aim for grunts, etc
small things to make the game a little harder when replaying the maps
i have basic understanding of programing languages (c++, java) 
 
Just wanted thank you, who made these clip brushes works for enemies too* 
Speaking Of Readme 
I've just noticed the current readme is pretty scary for newcomers.

Maybe also include a "Quickstart Guide" that just gets newbs set up and playing the game? 
More FDAs... 
ad_lavatomb
skill 3
68:34 ; 4/8 secrets ; 247/259 monsters ;; 2 deaths
i liked the lava texture. this map is very impressive visually. i will definitively check mapjam6 soon.
weird fight at the end. i like it, it's similar to serious sam. but i didn't expect it.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B72Jjyg-RfNFalFNZGVNLTl4VjA

ad_mountain
skill 3
38:32 ; 1/1 secrets ; 169/182 monsters ;; 3 deaths
those books are pretty cool, and the mini story too. are we supposed to get a rune? i didn't find it.
it's a hard level. that's good!. Very good placement of monsters and gameplay. it's the forte of this map
low on ammo in the end. later i checked with noclip and saw a grenade launcher. all those unused grenades... ouch.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B72Jjyg-RfNFTGd2bkROcmp4Qlk

these are first demo attempts, as well as the previous demos that i uploaded, except ad_dm1 
#169 
Ha ha! It reminds me of hkBattousai who rated a bunch of excellent maps 1 without realizing the issues were on his end... Fortunately the rating system prevents these idiots from harming the average rating too much. 
Mugwump 
Parubaru's not downvoting it because he can't run it - he's downvoting it because he acted like a complete and utter twunt in the last AD thread and subsequently got chased out of func. 
 
I didn't know this part but still, both are cases of people downvoting because of themselves rather than the quality of the works. 
 
Very very very much agree with #172. Think a 'GetStarted.txt' or alternative a straightforward webpage landing site that is just the basic "Here is how to download and install the mod", with maybe at most some supplementary links to engines and couple screenshots, would go a long way. 
I'll Second The Buffs 
Burning/Poison buffs have too ijtense of a screen bf flash. Perhaps make it a little more transparent. HOWEVER, distraction is the point. But, blindness is not.

Shambler, the detail making it more difficult to find secrets makes it even better. Also, I the mixed sounds for the stone knights is the default from the Rogue mispack 2. 
 
AD monsters, overall, are not Quakey in the same way.

Which is why I still think that Quoth is interesting. It explores and evolves one of the base game's more unusual themes, while still being a seamless addition to it.

That said, it shouldn't be viewed as an objective measure of whether the mod in question is good or not. Tronyn's maps are very Tolkien fantasy, but they're still great. It's just the author's vision. At some point a game like Quake is bound to become more than what it originally was, not in the sense of being better, but in the sense that it becomes a shared product of many minds, being inherited by fans and those who want to use it as means of self-expression. 
^This^ 
Even the base game wasn't homogeneous. Each mapper had his own distinct style and in that sense, the community is just continuing that. 
Foggy Anus. 
Replaying this....

Seems to be some new stuff?? Tweaked power-ups, extra secret or two, collapsing ledges?? The scuba gear was a cool addition, very vibey in the first area.

And fishing Ogres!! Okay that is well cool, quirky vibe for sure. I aggroed one and then restarted cos I felt guilty.... 
 
I aggroed one and then restarted cos I felt guilty....

I always do that in Nehahra. 
Yeah Shambler 
i relit all my maps and tweaked some things...
especially in ad_crucial
btw, ad_azad is horribly bugged, i know. And this time i'm excused.. You don't want to know the teeth surgery stuff, do you?!?

I'll be fixing the bugs in azad, don't play it til then.

Sorry again. 
..and About That Fishing Ogre, 
It is an mdl from madfox with some lovely animation on the hook and all that jazz, the bounding box is a bit wonky and i know i know, but it was just too lovely to not have included. Fits so well, i just awww... 
Azad 
Whats wrong with it? 
secret not triggered
monsters delay spawned but never called
weird clipping due to misc_mdl and derp
unfair balance on nm at some point...
light being broken in DP
some booktextures i messed up and misaligned them
... 
 
Are there any serious consequences/side effects from overwriting files in my original AD folder with the 1.5 AD files?

Beyond previous saves not working.

In my haste to play asap I missed the fact that this is more substantial than a simple update, like previous versions. 
 
You'll be replacing older versions of files with newer ones, the replacements being mostly tweaked stuff from 1.42.

Should work, but:

Do a new ad15 folder!
Previous demos on ALL MY maps won't work for sure, i changed too much in the end. 
@mfx Will Do, Thnx 
 
The Fishing Ogre 
was so cool in FourFeather, it'll be good to see him again - yeah I know, I still haven't found the time to play swampy, but I'm playing 1.5 ATM so I'll finally get to it. 
Just Now Finding Time To Play 
praise:

Leptis Magna was a ton of fun. ~1hr, 15/25 secrets. The low, rhythmic thump at the beginning of the level was brilliant. I found it very eerie, menacing and mysterious. It set a tone that I really liked. Not sure why it didn't persist throughout?

complaint:

Golem knights (not sure what they're called) play the classic squishy gib sound when gibbed rather than a stony debris sound. Happens with the GL anyway, not sure if it's weapon specific.

More to come, looking forward to playing more of this. 
 
I spent about 5 (yes, 5!) hours exploring Leptis Magna. Magna indeed! This map is magnificent on all accounts. Those pink vores and their offspring badly need a reskin, though, or at least a more subtle recolor. Got all kills but couldn't manage to find that damn one remaining secret, even when noclipping through the map several times. 
Finished Swampy Again. 
22/25 safkngadfkngandkjsfgnsdnfjg!!!!! will have to go back in then.

This might be my favourite Quake map for all the obvious reasons. There's so much goodness in all aspects it's ridiculous. The only issue I have is the combat before the GK is awkward and always drains too much health/ammo. Other than that it is 99% perfect.

Oh, btw, the book and pedestal before the MH bridge aren't like in AD1.5 w/ QS.

BTW if you fix anything, fix the goddamned Golem instant death trap arena in Azad, especially since they're nail resistant and someone is trolling providing loads of nailboxes.... 
 
BTW, I'm constantly forgetting to say that golems (at least the smaller ones) tend to blink (disappear for a frame or few) quite often.

QS. 
I Utterly Suck At Finding Secrets 
I almost never bother to do a secret hunt on quake maps, but the quality of AD maps in general do make it a pleasure to just stroll through after killing everything, peering excitedly into every damp, musty crevice, hunting for those elusive red targets that yield such satisfying treats when unloaded into.

found 12/25 so far in Swampy. 
Exactly. 
24/25 aaaaaaaargh. 
Even From Fucking Here: 
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rbbrON4c1_o/WEwMiNqkf-I/AAAAAAAAAks/KYNDpncClOEqgAy4mMvbZV9UbEI1XxOwACLcB/s1600/quake.jpg

Last one I got was the Pent before the zombie blood pit. Got all books and dopefish etc. 
Coincidentally, 
I'm also (finally!) playing Swampy currently. As I speak, I'm at 425/510 kills on skill 2, 19/25 secrets and 235 mins playing time and I'm fuckin' loving it! 
Coincidentally, Me Too 
ad_obd
skill 3
59:47 ; 8/10 secrets ; 326/328 monsters ;; 5 deaths
another hard map. the final fight is a very hard.
i liked the possibility of using traps against the monsters
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B72Jjyg-RfNFV0J5aHJZckRMbHc

ad_swampy
skill 3
109:50 ; 20/25 secrets ; 507/514 monsters ;; 0 deaths
wow. huge and interconected. in lenght it almost feel like a full vanilla episode. it's much more fun too.
it's hard to find all the tomes, but i did it. i didn't find all the secrets even when i really tried. this will be fun.
i also found a rocket launcher when i killed almost all monsters. yikes
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B72Jjyg-RfNFLVBoOG9FV3JaUmc

btw, 1gb demos? those particles sure are heavy. at least they compress at around 9% of the original size 
Saturday Evening With A Beer And A Chinese Takeout. 
https://www.twitch.tv/negke

For the next 2 hours, negke derps swampy. He's already ruined things by killing an ogre fisherman... 
Finished A Couple More 
Monstrosity was well polished. Couldn't find one last secret.

Azad was beautiful, very moody. Couldn't find one last secret.

Leptis Magna was just superfun. Couldn't find one last secret.

Playing through Zendar n....holy crap!! That scragmother is the mother of all coolness!!

So, I don't see any fishing ogres yet. Are the older maps updated or something? Which ones do we need to replay to see moar awesomeness? 
More FDAs... 
ad_metmon
skill 3
28:46 ; 7/10 secrets ; 94/101 monsters ;; 0 deaths
i like the style of structure floating in the void
i'm loving all those grunt variants, and the flier robot is annoying in a good way, like the one in q2
i changed the cl_sidespeed to 200; that could be considered a cheat? :D
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B72Jjyg-RfNFakI2R1FVWC1wOGc

ad_zendar
skill 3
56:10 ; 8/10 secrets ; 223/224 monsters ;; 2 deaths
nice town. another big fight at the end. and the scrag boss was challenging. the new monsters keep getting better.
i'm liking these interconected nonlinear maps. you get lost playing the first time, but i'm sure these maps have huge replay value
and besides replay value, you can just explore them, they are beautiful
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B72Jjyg-RfNFTWh6NDhVVzVrSmc


i will make an user and write a review in quaddicted after replaying all the maps
but this mod is more fun and better that all the other new games in the "old school" category
and is professionally polished, something that cannot be said of modern AAA games
also, in my opinion this mod is on par with the top mod/wads in the doom community (23rd aniversary!!!) in quality
at leat the ones that i played and checked.

congrats and enjoy the praise 
 
Which ones do we need to replay to see moar awesomeness?

The Foggy one has the ogre, I believe. 
The Horde Of 2endar. 
Well... it's Zendar.

This is definitely a more memorable update than the one from March this year (I remember practically nothing about that one).

I thought I was spoiled on the Nour boss fight but I didn't anticipate it at _that_ particular moment. As Shambler said this is quite a lot harder than the original, with all the updates to the AI and whatnot. My usual tactics had gotten me well rekt.

However, while this is a good update, I can't shake the feeling that it's not a very necessary update. The original Zendar was already a 10/10 map when it was ID1. I'm always a sucker for breakables and other cool stuff from AD but in this case it felt like drawing a moustache on the Mona Lisa to try to make it more complete.

And most importantly, the gameplay has been simplified by the removing the multiple silver key metagame, which was one of my favorite parts of the original. :(

I enjoyed this version a lot, but unlike how the new metmon can definitely replace the Quoth version, I'll be replaying the original Zendar rather than the AD update.

http://www.quaketastic.com/files/demos/otp_2endar.zip 
Necromancer's Keep Has Some New Fog Effects 
and some brushwork & entity changes. 
Also A Feature Request. 
Playing this map really made me wish that grenades could break through glass windows instead of just bouncing off. This already exists as QC!

http://svn.icculus.org/*checkout*/remakequake/src/weapons.qc

Pretty please mr SOC? 
Terror Fuma First Impressions 
Haven't played much of this but wanted to say that, from the first 15 minutes of Terror Fuma, I love the texture combinations, lighting, and brushwork. So many unique shapes that are well-proportioned and fresh, like the 32-wide pillars with terminals on them, or the big diagonal stretches of pipe. And as for textures, not only do they gel well but it's full of little references to other things that i like, such as the pipe texture from the q2 waste levels, floor panels from stecki, radiation panels from doom2, and the tech panels taken from Android Arts.

Also the little cinematic moments like the ship landing and the bugs attacking the humans. 
Terror Fuma 
A great new theme. Loved it. So many neat moments such as the infighting, ship, pipe climbing, poison pyros! and more! 
Bugs Attacking Humans. 
That was the one ;) 
Magna Again. 
Skill 2 run knowing all the secrets and tricks. Got through it easily apart from a worrying moment in the final arena when I got trapped in a stone blitz and only just made it to the RA secret. Had a lot of fun this time, the secrets make a lot of difference.

WRT to the balance issues....the armour situation at the start might be problematic.

First GA is 0 monsters
Next GA is 87 monsters (87 later)

This is after 2 traps, 1 combat where if you retreat you have to go through a trap again, 10 zombies you have to axe, the introduction of new ranged attack vorelings, numerous ambushes, with the DBS in a secret.
Next GA is 142 monsters (55 later)
Next YA is 176 monsters (34 later)
Next YA is 199 monsters (23 later)
Next YA is 249 monsters (50 later)

After that I went questing into super-secrets and got lost. 
Suggestion: 
After watching ArrrCee's playthrough of necromancer's keep, I realised how badass it would have been for those player models to come to life as "posessed players" or something, (maybe using bot code for AI) without respawning.

It would make the single player experience way harder, but it would make it feel like you were actually fighting another slipgate warrior that had risen from the grave. 
#211 
bot-like ai in single player quake usually plays terrible. I remember how bad combat against Nehahra's strafing base enemies felt. 
 
if they were risen from the dead you'd probably gimp their movement speed or something.

either that or treat them like a boss-enemy. 
 
I don't really want this for Necrokeep...


...but you could just make them essentially a grunt. You'd need a whole set of new standup anims though, Quakeguy only falls down and there are no animations for getting back up from his various on the ground poses.

But I don't really like the idea of fighting other quakeguys anyway, or there being living quakeguys. I like being the sole survivor and lone warrior (coop discounted) 
 
risen from the dead
gimp their movement speed

Which sounds a bit like the existing grunt with its AD weapon variations. 
Fair Enough 
I was thinking that rising from the dead suited the theme of the map. I mean, you start in a grave, and the boss at the end asks you what you're doing out of it. So to me it kinda stands to reason that other "players" should be able to rise too.

That aside, I really like the changes from 1.4 to 1.5 :) 
 
I'd say risen players are basically grunts. Definitely not needed imo. 
Finally Played AD For The First Time 
Impressive in every way. So much new stuff, and amazing maps on top. Top notch quality. You can be proud of yourselves! Some of the new gameplay mechanics take some getting used to, both in a good and a bad way.

Tbh, it discourages me even more from continuing mapping, and new people from starting at all, so in this sense it's actually a pretty terrible mod You should be ashamed of yourselves!

More comments later, maybe. Some first run demos below. Beware: there's a lot of derping, dying and getting lost, probably annoying to watch and barely worth sharing, but didn't want to have wasted 10gb for nothing. Most of it played on stream, so distractions and pressure from the unforgiving Roman audience along the way. Scampie tricked me into playing on Hard, which probably wasn't be wisest move to follow...

http://quaketastic.com/files/demos/ad15_azad_negke.7z
http://quaketastic.com/files/demos/ad15_crucial_negke.7z
http://quaketastic.com/files/demos/ad15_dm1_negke.7z
http://quaketastic.com/files/demos/ad15_dm5_negke.7z
http://quaketastic.com/files/demos/ad15_e2m2_negke.7z
http://quaketastic.com/files/demos/ad15_firetop_negke.7z
http://quaketastic.com/files/demos/ad15_magna_negke_a.7z
http://quaketastic.com/files/demos/ad15_magna_negke_b.7z
http://quaketastic.com/files/demos/ad15_metmon_negke.7z
http://quaketastic.com/files/demos/ad15_necroblood_negke.7z
http://quaketastic.com/files/demos/ad15_obd_negke.7z
http://quaketastic.com/files/demos/ad15_swampy_negke.7z
http://quaketastic.com/files/demos/ad15_tfuma_negke.7z
http://quaketastic.com/files/demos/ad15_zendar_negke.7z

No demos for: ad_e1m1, because Scampie sucks; ad_e2m7, because I forgot to record; ad_lavatomb, because I ran out of ammo and cba to grind; ad_end, because mfx sucks; ad_tests, because. 
Changes 
What changes are there in 1.5 on Necromancer's? I havent had time to play it again yet, but I flew through on noclip for a sec the other day, all I saw were more colored lights and someone removed the "bones of children". Oh and the graves were breakable. 
 
Tbh, it discourages me even more from continuing mapping, and new people from starting at all
...or it can inspire them. I firmly believe that great art encourages inspiration and emulation rather than the opposite. 
Tbh, It Discourages Me Even More From Continuing Mapping 
DICK.

Simple, good, fun maps are still good. Look at the retrojam5 pack. 
I Have More Fun 
With making smaller, quicker projects tbh. Episode 4 retro jam was my favourite 
So That Shouldn't 
Discourage anyone just because of AD. It's a showpiece! 
+++ 
to what shambler and fifth said 
Just Fun To Map 
With the others on this, I have fun just making worlds. The AD maps are there to inspire, and like Fifth said I really enjoyed making my retrojam5 map. 
 
Qmaster: I redid the lighting of Necrokeep entirely, added some more detailing and effects in places, and did some small gameplay changes (plus, supported coop so no one gets stuck and forward spawnpoints exist).

It's nothing major that fundamentally changes the map in any radical ways, just a bunch of little things I wanted to do. 
Misc Stuff 
it discourages me even more from continuing mapping, and new people from starting at all, so in this sense it's actually a pretty terrible mod You should be ashamed of yourselves!
There are plenty of good maps/mods around, "Honey" by CZG certainly has not discouraged anyone from mapping, in fact the opposite has happened with plenty of (tribute) maps using the style and gameplay.

Are the older maps updated or something?
Crucial, Mountain, Necrokeep and Swampy have been updated.

sounds like a typo in AD. older versions of fteqcc (but not other qccs) had a bug that caused them to not check properly
Yeah indeed a typo, fixed thanks.

Golem knights (not sure what they're called) play the classic squishy gib sound when gibbed rather than a stony debris sound
Fixed in next patch

Monsters repeat pain sounds on death, this is confusing!
Fixed in next patch

Various *stuff* broken in Fitz
Stop using Fitz with AD, its never going to be properly supported. Always use QS or MarkV.

I'll be replaying the original Zendar rather than the AD update
That is indeed a shame, because the new version has more routes, much better flow and lots of extra visual fixes.

Are there any serious consequences/side effects from overwriting files in my original AD folder with the 1.5 AD files
Yes, plenty of stuff has moved around, been replaced and works differently. Always create a new directory for 1.5, otherwise it will end in broken stuff and lots of frustrating at weird errors.

Fortunately the rating system prevents these idiots from harming the average rating too much
Troll downvoting will prevent this mod from ever being in the top 10 list, which is why AD 1.42 score has been ruined. Internet score voting systems always suck, there is always one spiteful person who will ruin for everyone else.

AD monsters, overall, are not Quakey in the same way
You make it sound like its a bad thing! :) AD is mostly fantasy due to lack of resources on my part. I did not want to spend large amounts of time creating new monster models, so I re-used from other sources. I assumed it would be fine as Drake and AoS both use the Heretic stuff. I don't think AD has turned out too bad with regards to Quake Aesthetics, I still think it can co-exist with vanilla content.

I've just noticed the current readme is pretty scary for newcomers.
It has a lot of good information for anyone to search through. I am sure anyone from the AD team can help if people post questions. The MOD comes with all source/test maps included, so there is plenty of examples for anyone who is curious! 
Has Everyone On Here Lost Their Sense Of Humour? 
Why is everyone taking negke's comment so painfully literally? It was obviously just meant as a (humorously formulated) compliment to Sock and the rest of the AD team. There have been many comments in that vein here on func: "Wow, [insert mapper name], your map is good it makes me want to give up mapping right now". Clearly it's not meant literally. Sheesh.


(Unless you're all operating on a meta-level of irony that I've completely missed, in which I retract all of the above.) 
 
Troll downvoting will prevent this mod from ever being in the top 10 list, which is why AD 1.42 score has been ruined.
According to this page: https://www.quaddicted.com/help/maps#rating (scroll down to the bottom), troll downvoting shouldn't have too big of an impact on the overall rating. However, maybe you should take the issue to Spirit if he has a way to remove such downvotes.

I did not want to spend large amounts of time creating new monster models, so I re-used from other sources.
Where does the Hunter model come from? I love it! You should use the Hydra from Seven's SMC (I think it originally comes from Hexen, not sure though). I find it a much more interesting aquatic monster to fight than the rotfish and it would make for some very welcome variety in water areas. 
 
Where does the Hunter model come from?

Attributed to RRP in the readme, but I saw the model in Malice with a different skin. 
Thanks Dwere 
 
Fantasy Quake. 
You make it sound like its a bad thing! :) AD is mostly fantasy due to lack of resources on my part./q>

Sock stop trolling :p ;) Nah, I tried to be clear that overall it's not a bad thing. I might personally prefer it to be different, but more objectively it works, and it's high quality (and incidentally it doesn't come across as a lack of resources, it comes across as a harmonious vision for a fantasy/sci-fi direction). 
Fucking Hell. 
AD broken my func_ tags. I demand a refund.

Also the troll downvoters can fuck off whoever they are. 
Water Monsters 
Would be good. Need a decent water map though as an excuse to expand the bestiary. I have some ideas in mind but need the motivation for it 
Yay, Go Fifth! 
Is Than completely retired from Quake mapping? I would love me some ad_plumbers... 
Oh! 
ad_plumbers would be awesome. Course, vermis support would be required so...THAN GET IN HERE

In all honesty I think AD, whatever its direction, is superb. Everything AD touches turns to "ooh look at that!" or "holy crap this is a Quake map!". Too awesome. Thank you for all the fun times AD team. 
 
Im trying to use the monster_knight "Stone Statue" spawnflag and exactskin as "0" to use the normal knight skin, but its not working. it changes it to any of the other skins, though. am i setting it up wrong? or is this perhaps an oversight? 
 
I bypassed it by adding an additional skin thats a repeat of skin0 in the meantime. 
Another Fix. 
Sock for the love of Shub can you fix the "blocking the player when they're hugging a surface that changes angle" bug?? This is actually a bit of an issue in AD cos there's so many maps with cool ledge-shuffling exploration, but going around angles and pillars can be a bit damn fussy with that bug.... Ta x 
Water Bugs 
Why is everyone taking negke's comment so painfully literally? It was obviously just meant as a (humorously formulated) compliment
Back when I made vanilla quake maps I sent them to negke for testing and he always came back with the same comment, that he is going to give up on mapping after playing my map! I am well aware of the comedy value of the comment, I just don't want new people to be discouraged by his comment because most humour around this forum is very dry and sarcastic! ;)

stop trolling :p ;) Nah, I tried to be clear that overall it's not a bad thing. I might personally prefer it to be different
Yeah I understand your view, though Quake has always been a weird mixture of different styles mashed together. I certainly agree Quoth is the best Cthulhu art style of any community mod for monsters, its just a great shame the gameplay is endless bullet sponges!

I find it a much more interesting aquatic monster to fight than the rotfish and it would make for some very welcome variety in water areas.
I had plenty of plans for water monsters in AD; the hydra from hexen2, more fish types, eels from Quake Expansion pack and 2 new models from madfox. After much testing I decided that water combat in Quake is terrible! Most players struggle with vertical combat and water is an 6 axis nightmare with everything moving really fast while the player is stuck in treacle! Then there is the technical problems of monsters not reacting to water with different movement speeds and engine code wanting to move all monsters to the same Z height as the player.

Im trying to use the monster_knight "Stone Statue" spawnflag and exactskin as "0" to use the normal knight skin, but its not working
Can't be done with AD assets, the QC does not recognize exactskin as 0. Also I don't recommend you use "stone statue" for normal knights, there is a lot of extra code designed for stone enemies linked to that spawnflag. It is really only designed for stone knights.

for the love of Shub can you fix the "blocking the player when they're hugging a surface that changes angle" bug
This is not a QC bug, this is because the players bounding box is square, does not rotate and the mapper has created a tiny (<16 units) ledge! This is a design issue, either the mapper wants a high level of movement difficulty or they do not consider it too annoying. 
Usual Whiny Feedback 
I was recently pretty surprised to discover that the "picking up two or more megahealth packs in a row" bug is still present in AD. I think someone came up with a fix a long time ago? 
Engine Update Required 
Okay so I just did my first test map for rotating objects using the AD .fgd! Wow, that was kind of a letdown for obvious reasons(no collision/fake collision).

Not a knock on AD as it's fantastic Mod made with existing tools and played in existing engines. Why haven't the main compilers and engines incorporated rotation with collision into their source?

I guess I mostly mean Quakespasm and Eric's tools. I know about DP already but hmap2 is not widely used so not a consideration really.


I spoke/argued with eric over the engine implementation of rotators in the QS engine for a long time. I wanted the same system as DP used because then it might become a good standard that everyone could use!

Unfortunately the QS team will not implement it because it is not a straight forward change and can affect backward compatibility. Maybe if more people in the community were vocal about this issue then things might change.

Maybe MarkV/Baker could implement the DP rotating system and then someone could make a map for it! That is the usual (crazy) way things have to be done in the Quake community! :P

So for the moment we are stuck with Hipnotic QC hack rotating stuff which is just terrible for 2016 style mapping. Rotating collision can easily handled by the engine and will allow for rotating machinery to properly interact with the player and projectiles. 
 
I had plenty of plans for water monsters in AD
So... are you saying that you put these plans to rest? That would be a shame, especially regarding the Hydra: this bugger can also attack you when you're out of the water, paralyzing you in the process. That could be used for some interestingly wicked situations.

Then there is the technical problems of monsters not reacting to water with different movement speeds
That's akin to saying "let's not use fiends because they can't navigate stairs and tight spaces properly"... Learning how to use a monster efficiently is the mapper's job. Yours as the project lead is to provide content and gameplay opportunities. Let the mappers deal with these problems. I surely am not the only player who needs tougher and more varied aquatic monsters. 
At Least 
Could we add necros awesome swinging gate from altar of storms?

QC Hack:
Hrmm, yes having to manually add blocks to create the collision is a cheatyfaced hack by any standard and brings along the ever annoying and long standing issue of colliders not ever rotating hence 45 degrees being 1.44 or so larger than 0. 
Lmfao Mugwump Demanding Content From Sock 
 
 
Learning how to use a monster efficiently is the mapper's job. Yours as the project lead is to provide content and gameplay opportunities.

Wow 
 
Underwater content, yes, because while AD greatly expands the above-surface bestiary, it still doesn't have more than vanilla underwater. Plus, Sock just admitted having had plans for this. I'm only asking him to consider bringing these plans to fruition. 
 
He did consider it. Concluded it sucked donkey balls. As the project lead it's his prerogative to make that call. 
@sock - Re: True Rotation 
I'll see if I can do a true rotation implementation in Mark V in the next few days.

It will need tons of beta testing to assure compatibility. I once saw a Nehahra bug report for a different engine (Qrack) that appeared to involve true rotation and found that to be disturbing.

The main difference is someone interested in doing the QuakeC support (progs.dat game logic for anyone reading this who doesn't know what that is) ... since I almost exclusively only do engine code. Without QuakeC support in an mod that gets use, the engine modification by itself doesn't mean much ;-)

Testing in DarkPlaces would also need to happen to make sure everything works (essentially) the same. DarkPlaces physics code is not the same as the classic engines in some ways, making it unclear at times if a behavioral difference could happen.

/No promises since I haven't thought about it much lately, there could be a red flag I have forgotten, but aside from that possibility, seems very plausible. 
Water Combat 
"water combat in Quake is terrible"

I was going to disagree and compare it to something like Descent but the movement speed in Descent is much higher and snappier.

I will still be interested in creating a water map at some point, I'm guessing the scuba gear powerup was included in the 1.5 update? 
@Mugwump In Regards To #142 
That black background issue must be a Windows only problem I think, because all the Linux builds in those same nightly's run AD 1.5 just fine. 
 
Thanks for your input, xaGe. I got the issue fixed by deleting conchars.lmp as per Sock's instructions. I'd still like to know why this happens only with 1.5 and not with 1.42.

@Fifth Yeah, the scuba gear is featured in Swampy. 
 
Just swimming alone in Quake is slow and boring, nevermind doing underwater combat. 
 
swimming alone in Quake is slow and boring
Well, you can't expect underwater movement to be as fast as land movement. As for boring, I respectfully disagree. The limited air supply and search for surface or pockets of air can bring some tension if the map is well constructed. And restricted speed can be another tension-inducing factor in combat situations, further enhanced by hydras and their paralyzing attacks. 
Water 
water and swimming can be interesting
i always liked grizzly groto. is very 'other dimension/whatever', with impossible fluid mechanics of underwater areas that should be flooded.

and the map of than 'apsp2' is very good too. 
Floods 
The mechanic of being able to move water brushes in AD would go a long way I think. I am ignorant on how feasible that would be but I can imagine using the flood/drain gimmick to make interesting scenarios! 
Glub Glub... 
It would be nice to see more water/under water content in maps at some point. If only to add a few monsters. Say repurpose a few more along the lines of the Hexen II squid? A shark would cool, but then someone would actually have to model one.

Underwater sunken, lost, or ruined city type maps would be neat to see I would think. Swim, fight, find rooms still with air under water, etc etc... 
Moving Liquids Are A Massive Hack. 
They're allegedly so bad that:

1. necros refused to put them in Quoth.
2. sock opted to do make a fake trigger_touchsound for Zendar that looks and sounds like water. 
Touch 
Sounds nasty indeed.

I was looking at the trigger_touchsound but couldn't find an example of it. I'll be taking a look at the zendar garden fight section! 
Well. 
if playername=Mugwump;
then replace monster_fish with monster_tarbaby & monster_shalrath;
force r_wateralpha 1


Surely?? 
Har! Har! Har! 
Speaking of tarbabies, is there a way to make them move slower underwater? I'm guessing it would involve some QC editing. This isn't an AD-specific question but I'm posting it here since it pertains to the current discussion. 
Slow Tar 
Not quite what you are asking for but spawns in AD have a flag to make them jump a whole lot less. They become much less spastic with it set. 
 
Thanks Bloughs but it's about underwater speed, not jumping, and I'm also asking for vanilla. That said, what's this AD flag? 
RE: The One Person Who Rated AD 1/5 On Quaddicted 
This is one thing the Quake community is missing: the kind of trolls e.g. on doomworld/idgames who give out zero-star ratings and angry reviews while admitting they didn't even finish the first map of a release. You see at least three of those commenting on every major WAD. Quaddicted had some good times with hkBattousai a while back, but we need more! 
 
It's also missing the troll release culture, but I guess with Quaddicted not being notable for trying to host every malicious turd for "archival purposes" it'd be pretty hard for something like this to emerge.

A precedent is required. 
 
You don't know Spirit very well then. If someone kicked his fucking dog, he'd archive the boot and then complain it wasn't packaged in a .zip file. 
LOL 
 
@dwere 
It isn't the rating that determines if a release is good or not.

It is the number of times it received a rating and the number of comments it received ;-)

Which map do you want to play?
1) Map with 1 rating of 5 and no comments?
2) Map with 78 ratings and 4.11 average and 35 comments? 
Water And Other Discussions 
Water Combat: Sock is not entitled to add more water enemies. Due to the speed and time restrictions vanilla Quake opted to have weak enemies that take little time to dispatch. Nehahra had an interesting gimmick of swimming ogres but this was very wierd and required lots of open surface to breath since the ogres took a while to dispatch. However, I wouldn't mind something that behaved like the icthyosaurus in Half-Life what with its lurking, strike and retreat. Heck even having something like that attack a brakable walkway lunging out of the water at you would be cool.

Rotation Collision: I'll suggest this here, to prevent breaking backwards compatibility perhaps the engine change should check for a specific spawnflag before applying any engine-side collision, else default to older hipnotic method. As Baker mentioned, a mod's QC would have to support this.

Moving Liquids: Best example I've seen of this was the extras-r4 mod. The func_water works well amd supports water alpha, don't see why it couldn't be included.

AD's rating...oh hey maybe I should go rate.... 
Ratings 
Maybe you should look at it this way: Not everybody is a fanboy of sock. Some people do not like to play against Hexen2 monsters in Quake and some people do not like to play for hours in the same Quake map and get lost. Some people like the Quake weapons as they are.

Some people like Dopa and the lost levels releases more than AD. Maybe just because of this. Because it is how Quake originally was.

I didnt rate AD yet, but I will also not give it a 5. Maybe a 3 or 4. Does this make me a bad person now? A hater?

The internet is bigger than this forum. So it happens that people are not sock fanboys or do not like Quake mods in general. If you only want 5 ratings, you should write it in Quaddicteds map description: If you do not want to rate it 5, please do not rate it at all. Or tell Spirit to ignore all other ratings.

Please think about it for a second before starting another shitstorm. AD is not a 5 for everybody. Just like Trump is not a president for everybody :)

Now play on. With mod or without. Quake is great! 
 
@Baker, I dunno, the second one might be a hidden gem, why not both?

@bg: Giving AD a 3 or 4 because you prefer levels that are smaller or cut from a more "old school" cloth is fine, as is not liking the new enemies. Personally, my personal favorite 2016 Q1SP release isn't even AD 1.5. But giving it 1/5, even taking into account differences in perspective on what makes enjoyable map design and gameplay, is a huge stretch to me. I'd be interested in hearing a serious argument.

You're not a troll. The kind of people I'm talking about are people who would literally hand out 0/1 star ratings for whole episodes or campaigns without having finished one or two levels. Why make the pretense of judging if you're not in a position to judge--that sort of thing. And I'm not even exaggerating, people do that. doomworld/idgames, man. 
^ What He Said 
bg: We are talking about people rating 0 because of even weaker reasons than you are saying you'd give the mod a 3 for. Don't use your example of reasonable dislikes of the mod to excuse actual jerks and shitheads, you just make them think they are more welcomed. 
 
Some people like the Quake weapons as they are.

Quake is great!


Who are you and what have you done to the real gb? 
#170 
it's a little weird the resistance for cells in minotaurs.
Their long-range attack looks like it's plasma-based, so the cell resistance makes sense. 
The Veil Has Slipped 
#270 - Your suggestion that people who rated this 5 are "sock fanboys" makes it look like you have some underlying beef...care to elaborate?

;) 
AD=Donald Trump 
perfect analogy.

Dopa= Rex Tillerson. 
Neither AD Nor DOPA Are Colluding With Putin 
 
 
no, Brutal Doom = Donald Trump 
Stop. 
 
@278 
Can't be identity so, is that an analogy or a metaphor? 
Make American McGee Great Again 
 
#281 Wins 
 
Proxy Server Fanboys 
xxx posted by bg [188.166.73.9] on 2016/12/15 07:36:39
Its difficult to take anyone serious on this forum when they are posting from a Proxy Server and then signing the username as bg which we all know is just gb aka golden_boy!

Not everybody is a fanboy of sock
That is just the weirdest thing to say, especially as you keep repeating it. Its like you are using this term in a derogatory way that anyone who likes my quake stuff is crazy! I am not sure why you are so angry or annoyed at me. The only contact we have ever had was at Quakeone over my ITS mod. I re-read the email conversation recently and it seems fine and reasonable to me.

some people do not like to play for hours in the same Quake map and get lost. Some people like the Quake weapons as they are
Don't you see the irony of this comment, you are telling me "some people" don't like stuff that you were doing with the RMQ project and thought it was perfectly fine direction for Quake to go!

I didnt rate AD yet, but I will also not give it a 5. Maybe a 3 or 4. Does this make me a bad person now? A hater?
Thats fine, that is your choice. Would I actually like to know what you like/dislike about the mod, sure why not! Instead of writing some weirdly aggressive comments via a proxy server, sit down and write some feedback and sign it with your proper nickname!

Please think about it for a second before starting another shitstorm.
AD is not a 5 for everybody.

You are completely missing the point of what I was saying about voting. Here is a perfect example of what I mean. Someone who kicked up a huge fuss over the previous version, was strangely angry at me and decided it was time to be spiteful on the internet! 
 
I agree the "fanboy" comment tends to indicate someone with an existing chip on their shoulder. In which case, please ignore the troll and move on otherwise I can see this whole argument getting out of hand. 
#283 
mic drop! 
That Was Awesome 
 
 
Oh snap!

It's fair that some people don't like the mod, would be nice to get some feedback that's actually constructive! 
#283 
SOC actually typed "mod" without caps??!!? 
Mmmm Beef. 
Served with freshly caught rotfish from a swampy fishing Ogre (one that negke didn;t kill). Surf 'n' turf baby! 
Kudos 
For making the fishing ogre more than just a prop. 
 
Killing them should give you a fishing rod (=grappling hook) which you can use to collect items in a 192 unit distance or catch monsters in order to kill them with the axe or be killed by them. 
Some Feedback On Big Maps 
(not picking the bait)

my opinion of big maps in quake is that it becomes convenient a map of the map. lol. i mean, like an overview from counter strike.

in descent (the '94 game) the 3d map can be confusing the first time, but later it really helps navigating the big maps, so i can go back and pick that red armor that i saved for later.

but on the other hand it feels like a real place, one in wich you can get lost in real life because you never saw it before ;; instead of small slices of a bigger place with linear gameplay. 
Two Standards For The Price Of One 
funny to see certain people take the moral high ground, who were rarely below shitting all over others when they felt like it, either openly on the forums or a little more hidden on irc

heck, if you hate loudly in random directions in certain parts of the community, and especially if its about the targets du jour, you will get applause and belly-holding laughter

a bunch of people here will gladly cause someone else grief if they get the chance, given they have no repercussions to expect

calling others trolls, when trolling is an accepted hobby of a few people here? come on

only if someone with a high enough status is being criticized will people pop out of the woodwork and wave a most brittle stick of morality around.
this place has always been ripe with double standards 
Why Not Change It And Be Honest? 
 
Like Starting With Typing A Name Into The Box For Your Posts 
 
There's No Need To Argue 
You all suck about the same. 
#295 Summons The Rekkage 
this place has always been ripe with double standards

Liking calling other people out for their behaviour while being oh-so-cool and "hiding" behind no user name?? 
Exit Stage Left 
a bunch of people here will gladly cause someone else grief if they get the chance, given they have no repercussions to expect
Like people hiding behind Proxy Servers and talking a bunch of shit at people, yeah I see your point!

You all suck about the same
I spend my spare time making free content for a 20 year old game and the thread devolves into this!

Its time for me to move on and exit this thread. Time to find something else to do with my spare time that does not involve people throwing shit at each other. Arcane Dimensions was a fun ride while it lasted and now its finished, no more updates planned from me. 
Sock... 
First you say

I just don't want new people to be discouraged by his comment because most humour around this forum is very dry and sarcastic

And then you get discouraged by a dry and sarcastic, but obviously joking, comment? 
Well Done. 
Sock wins the beef! Better get it on the grill. 
Cool Mod! 
didn't properly read stuff above, but i smell something burned in the bin :")

anyway, wanted to tell that this is awesome mod and i'm enjoying it so far (didn't finish all new maps yet). for those who like boring demos of me being stuck, killed and raped by cute monsters here's first pack of my first run demos:

https://cloud.mail.ru/public/8bjx/1mUpgydfj

please continue with the mod! :D 
Sock 
Its time for me to move on and exit this thread. Time to find something else to do with my spare time that does not involve people throwing shit at each other. Arcane Dimensions was a fun ride while it lasted and now its finished, no more updates planned from me.

Hey, do you want to quit because of just a few trolls around here? It's internet, they will always be no matter what you do. There's a lot more people that are enjoying what you make. Think about them before deciding to leave. 
I For One 
Think this is the best mod ever. Just saying. 
Loved It. 
This was a most excellent mod. Great to see so much love put into a project by dedicated fans. Keep up the good work, and Sock can't quit until that last map gets added in... 
Haven't Finished Yet 
But I quite enjoy the update, it is very fun and a definite worthy addition to AD 1.0. Thanks to sock et al for the inspiring work, I appreciate it. 
Sock 
Supporters of AD outnumber the trolls overwhelmingly. It's not worth your time even replying - these people are mostly just meaningless internet non-entities farting in the wind over some pre-existing and obsolete politics or beef from the past, that can - and should - be ignored!

There is literally zero reason to let the tiny minority of troll posts rumple you. 
Fuck The Trolls 
Dude, have a chillax over christmas and consider rethinking your position afterwards. Or even put it on hiatus for a little while to refresh.

Nobody here wants you to stop working on it. It's the best thing that has happened to quake for ages and it would be a huge loss to the community if it were abandoned. 
 
That was unexpected.

For the amount of praise sock is getting, he seems to be rather easily upset by negativity. I can sorta understand, but, in my experience, creating anything worth talking about will inevitably produce at least a certain amount of drama. Taking it to heart is counter-productive.

While the things I said are somewhat representative of my position on such bickering, they were not meant as a serious insult, least of all towards sock. I'm sorry if it seemed otherwise. 
Roll With The Punches! 
Nobody here wants you to stop working on it. It's the best thing that has happened to quake for ages and it would be a huge loss to the community if it were abandoned.

Inevitable toxicity is to be expected, take the holiday and come back and decide! 
To Sock 
just my two cents, for what it's worth :

When you publish something really worth it, of very high quality, it is inevitable that some envious, jealous persons, trolls, morons and douchebags manifest themselves to express their negativity. There's nothing you can do against this, whatever the quality of your work and your efforts. This is part of life.

Like many others, I personally appreciate your work ENORMOUSLY, and SILENTLY since my opinion have no value here. So I wanted to say a BIG THANK YOU for your awesome work.

I know what it is, since I've also personally done some very high quality stuffs on other things (not related to Quake), and yet received some negative comments. I take it as a clue that my work had an real impact on others.

In the case of maps/mods done for Quake1, I can also appreciate the work you have done, since I'm still slowly working on a one square room map since the last 6 months (with a single dog standing in the middle) ! So I know how hard quake mapping can be. After some rare comments I've wrote on this forum, I mostly got very negative replies (especially from OneTrueAssHole and another idiot), but why should I care ?

Again, from all the (usually) silent quake playing dudes that outnumber the trolls/morons :

T H A N K Y O U S O C K ! 
 
Giving up is akin to letting trolls win. I can feel the pain though, the AD team and Sock especially have worked *bloody* hard on this mod.
It's difficult to remain pragmatic on such a passion project. 
If Sock Is Over It 
I think that should be respected. However, other people aside from sock also put time and energy into this project and I think that should be respected as well.

Perhaps make one final release: add ad_sepulcher and one last round of bugfixes, put a bow on it and move on. 
 
Perhaps make one final release: add ad_sepulcher and one last round of bugfixes, put a bow on it and move on.

That's what the patch was planned to be all along. 
T H A N K Y O U S O C K ! 
Hell, yeah! 
 
Sock, you worked on this because your passion for Quake. Don't stop because of the trolls 
@Everyone @Sock 
Envy strives people act like assholes sometimes, you very well know the quality of your work, it is very solid and professional. Time to time we all want to get some recognition of our hard work and passion put into this community etc. Even new-comers has this same spark somewhere there.

Everyone on this mod did impressive job, no one can argue with that, except people I just meant; jealous or just trolls. Just ignore those kind of comments, that is only way to deal with those. After all look all these positive comments given by players who really liked what they got, it is too easy to stick only on negative comments. 
 
Patch was always going to be the end anyway, sad he got frustrated over one fucker, but whatever forget that. AD's pretty well wrapped up after this patch anyway, and there's plenty there to work with in your own maps and the source is there to take in other directions if people want to do that too.

But don't worry about Simon, even if he doesn't make more Quake, he'll make something fun and cool and awesome. Sock has too much desire to fiddle with things to not be cooking up something. 
I Only Fight Trolls In Game! 
Sock & other mappers,
you did a great job!

Don't care the ice below the iceberg,
let's invent a func_troll! 
Sepulcher? 
So if 1.5 was/is the last patch (Which is nice, in some ways, since now we can do all kinds of kooky and weird things to the progs.dat), what does that mean for sepulcher and the missing entities it's supposed to add? I'd hope that when it comes out, we'll see a "1.5.1" or something along those lines that includes it so that people who want to use those new monsters don't have to tell people to download both 1.5 and a specific other map... 
 
https://twitter.com/SimsOCallaghan/status/810209707252154368

There's a patch tomorrow (Sunday). There just won't be anything after that. 
Scampie 
Technically, since 1.5 came out, that "fucker" is one of the contributors to AD, no matter how small and insignificant.

Unless you meant the proxy guy, who wasn't that offensive either. I've seen worse things being thrown around on this forum.

At this point it seems that sock is just very tired and needs a break. 
 
I had assumed the update with Sepulcher would be the last AD update, but I had also assumed sock would stick around and release a map or two now and then, maybe continue work on ITS as he mentioned once or twice. But it's natural that people come and go in these communities. Shit happens. It's a shame, but not the saddest thing in the world today by any means.

Cheers, sock. AD is part of Quake's legacy now, and I'm sure there will be many "third-party" AD maps in the future. If you decide to stay, all the better, but if this is really it, thank you all the same. 
 
"For the amount of praise sock is getting, he seems to be rather easily upset by negativity. I can sorta understand, but, in my experience, creating anything worth talking about will inevitably produce at least a certain amount of drama. Taking it to heart is counter-productive."

This, really. 90s FPS isn't my only hobby, I also spend some time in the poetry scenes near where I live, and also observing poetry on a national level. Let me tell you--the beefs that happen here make poetryland beefs look like the Eastern Front in comparison. You can't imagine the hostility, both justified and unjustified, people have for each other over the words they write. In comparison, AD has received almost universal praise from this (admittedly smaller) community, with most critics being people who just have different personal preferences (don't like huge maps or whatever) with as far as I can tell one or two real "haters." Like I said, as far as internal disputes within niche creative communities--this ain't nothing! 
 
*in the AD threads specifically, maybe not this forum in general. My point is, have some perspective! Though I know from experience stepping away from the keybaord forma while can help with that.

Sorry for triple-posting. 
Sock Is Known 
for taking criticism to heart. I think it's part of why he is so good at this. I hope he'll be back when he has cleared his mind a bit.

Making something like AD in your spare time is very exhausting. I know this from my own hobby projects. Sometimes you ask yourself why you're doing this at all, esp. when faced with criticism that upsets you like in this case. But at some point you remember why, and you get back at this. 
 
I hope he'll be back when he has cleared his mind a bit.
Ditto. AD has so much more yet untapped potential that it'd be a pity to put it to rest permanently. 
Not Necessarily Back With More AD 
But yeah, let's hope that he uses this toolset now that it's done. 
+1 Sleepwalkr 
I think wed all be wise to respect whatever choice sock makes in regards to AD. His reasoning likely extends far beyond this thread. Its in more than a polished enough state to call final and any changes can be taken on by the new wave of mappers/content developers.

Best of luck to Sock on all his creative ventures. Though, he doesnt really need "luck".

Now, everyone, GO MAP. 
I'm A Sock Fanboy 
... and it only gets worse on every release. 
Sock Quitting Quake... 
... d�j� vu all over again.

The king is dead, long live the king. 
Buncha Cents 
Weapons:

I was sceptical of the projectile shotguns at first, and still not sure changing them was really necessary, but one gets used to them and it works. It's even admittedly somewhat satisfying to kill enemies with the pellets, because of the visual feedback and 'having hit' through slight movement prediction. It feels hitting things is slightly more difficult now with the delay - at least it seems I've missed way more shots than I would have with hitscan, as if the monsters were lucky to zig-zac their way through my attacks.
The triple-barreled shotgun kicks ass. An actual improvement over the normal one, and good thing the maximum shell count is increased.

The plasma gun, like Shambler put it, just works, gets the job done. I can't decide whether it's an improvement over the LG and occasionally I would have prefered to be able to switch back to the LG as the plasma felt less powerful (possibly caused by restistances) and dangerous to my self at point blank range. At least it allows shooting under water (right?).

Axes are good, not as useless as the stock axe, and in many cases the axe upgrade is found quickly to make it suitable tool for emergencies.

Monsters:

The new and modified monsters are all very well designed and reasonably balanced. Some seem to have oddly little health while others have surprisingly much within their context (e.g. normal knights vs. crossbow guys). But it works out in the end, no Quoth-grade ammo sponges. Even the vorelings, although I wouldn't have minded if they had had even less.

Z-aware ogres are a bit of a mixed bag. Generally, I think removing their grenade limitations is good and adds to the gameplay. At the same time, the z-awareness can make it quite unfair for the player occasionally. Seems to be as if at short ranges the grenades are very fast and harder to dodge. Glad they have a range limit, too.
Zombies, on the other hand, are still unable to attack vertically. Maybe it's for the best, though.

One thing that bothers me a little is how some of the modified monster models, especially hell knight and ogres, are so thin in their posture compared to the originals.
Knights and zombie knight models, while being good overall, could've used a little touch-up perhaps. Something about them feels wonky to me, maybe because they are so round now?
Same with the updated shambler model. He has been working out obviously, but his death animation is a bit of a diva move...

The monster spawners are tricky. They add tension to the gameplay and a further component of target priorization which is good. However, mappers must be careful not to let this get out of hand. YES, YOU, IONOUS! :) Depending on the situation, this can cause ammo shortages. Most maps handle it well, or at least it worked out for me in most cases, secrets and respawning items etc.

The scrag queen is cool if not slightly overpowered. Or maybe it only felt that way, because the arena in Zendar is fairly small and dead-endy in terms of cover with regards to the additional mobs. You should have added the scrag boss from Travail as well -> scrag kind and queen in a scrag kingdom map with a permanent flight powerup. Hmm, looks like there's now way around AD 2.0 now!

The resistances to certain weapons didn't really look clearly communicated to me. There's mention of particles indicating resistance somewhere here, but during the game I didn't recognize what does what. The only obvious thing is grenades bouncing off certain enemies and rockets seemingly flying through scrags. Not sure I like the latter in particular. While in theory a system like this can add some flavor to the gameplay, I think in Quake, at least for me and in this mod, it's largely irrelevant as I just keep shooting until the monsters are dead unless it's clear they don't take any kind of damage from the current weapon.

Maps:

I had some thoughts on each map, but can't really recall. Let me just repeat what other have probably mentioned and say the maps are amazing. Great detail, many secrets, so much to explore. The rune meta game is a nice touch. Ever so slightly intransparent, but rewarding if completed with a stunning credit map.

Newschool stuff like skyboxes, fog, colored lighting, alpha textures and (excessive) particles was used to great effect. Made things look fresh and modern, yet still sufficiently Quakey. As far as I can tell the new map functions add a lot of potential for unique designs and gameplay/story/event opportunities, much of these probably yet to be explored. 
Fun Fact 
When playing ad_lavatomb, I caught myself thinking "this would look a lot better with colored lighting". In its current state, the level is fairly bright and mostly grey/white. Imagine how it'd look with a more dark and gloomy style and walls tinted in subtle color by candles, flames and flowing runes...
Clear indication how much the rest of the MOD has spoilt me! 
Lavatomb 
I reported the same thing in the past, but I was told that the level does have colored lighting.

I dunno. No matter how hard I squint, I can't see it. I'd love to take a look at the saturation values. Most likely, the person who told me that was mislead by the occasional use of fake tint on the textures themselves (typically near lava). 
Lavatomb Has A 5MB .lit File 
PS. 
It's not even funny how much better it looks without awful DKT3 textures repeated like wallpaper... 
Public Service Announcement 
I am the person formerly active in this community as goldenboy.

Post #270 was not written by me.

Thankfully a friend e-mailed me about this, otherwise I wouldn't even have known that someone abused my old nick for fakenicking and trolling.

I don't post from proxy servers. I have not been active in the Quake community for a long time now.

Get your wits together, you have been trolled. Probably someone who has some undying beef with me.

For the record, I think your mod is cool, Sock. 
Public Service Announcement 
I am the person formerly active here as goldenboy.

Post #293 was not written by me.

At least this time the troll didn't use my nick. Please refer to my more detailed answer here:

http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=61381&start=336

In short, someone is fakenicking and shitposting, using my old nick and who knows how many others.

Thanks to the people who alerted me to this. 
Negke. 
Yeah I need to reiterate how much I'm liking the TBS in this, it no longer feels like shells are for easy enemies or saving nails / rockets / cells, it feels like the TBS is a primary choice in it's own right. 
Well Then. 
Fixes: 
* Changed all monsters to use same sound channel for pain/death sounds
* Added spawnflags option to monster_golem for melee/stomp version only
* Added special gib sound for stone enemies (just a pile of rubble)
* Changed infighting formula (ai_combat.qc) to be closer to id setup
* Changed icegolem boss to ignore damage before trigger wakeup
* Fixed compiler error in mon_bossicegolem.qc function iceg_tranB13
* Fixed monster_shalrath not removing voreball attachment when in pain 
 
what will happen with ad_sepulcher? 
 
unfortunatelly it's canceled 
Thats Rather Unfortunate 
 
No Ad_sepulcher ??? :-( 
 
Shattering 
That's truly unfortunate to hear...it looked like it was well on its way...

Maybe GiftMacher has plans to finish it as a separate release? This was originally his e1m3 remake map right? 
Seems Like The Drama Got To Him. 
That really is a shame. I was looking forward to playing that map. 
 
Bonus points go to ad_magna for utilizing pos1 in breakables to manipulate the particle colors. 
Unofficial Fan Patch 1 
Download and extract to your AD 1.5 folder

* Fixed misc bugs and inconveniences in ad_chapters
* Added new map (ad_e1m3) to the MOD


Call me whatever the fuck you want. 
Disclaimer. 
It's a (perfectly playable) beta of ad_e1m3 from April this year that was previously posted in Screenshots & Betas. If G1ftmacher will want to use a newer version I will be happy to repack and resubmit. 
 
Thanks OTP 
Hmm 
inconveniences in ad_chapters

This re-introduces the issue to get stuck behind the torch on the right side of the entrance to the lost swamp lands. 
If 
The source file of current state was released, I'm sure someone...ahem...would be willing to tweak it and finish it and code anything bonus that is used. 
#342 
unfortunatelly it's canceled

Is that the official line then? 
 
in regards to ad_sepulcher sock said this on twitter:

https://twitter.com/SimsOCallaghan/status/810625865579196417?lang=en 
 
If we could get the monsters that were going to come with it at least, that'd be a nice treat. Or perhaps those are what's holding it up.

My poor, poor mangled .fgd file... 
 
Sock gets trolled, trolls back. Simple as that. 
#355 
what monsters? 
 
Sock clearly says there, it is maybe possible to have it in a next year, everything good requires some time, before it actually happens. 
#354 
Ah ok, well that sounds pretty normal. Let's just chill out and check the status again sometime next year. 
Playing Through Azad In Forty Minutes 
 
Ionous yeah, cool playthrough, thx man!

@everyone

Spoiler:

You have to gib the marine body with the Axe to proceed. The Shadow Axe that is.

It gibs dead bodies which is the coolest thing since sliced bread in plastic bags.

Still, the map could be considered broken with such a weird setup to proceed/trigger the final battle.

Play another map instead! 
Onetruepurple, That Is Not Sepulcher! 
It bears very little or no resemblance to the map being discussed here (except the name of course). It was an attempt by me to remix e1m3, it was picked up by the ad team and has since undergone massive reconstruction and iteration. 
Giftmacher 
I'm aware of that - I did change the appropiate trigger_multiple in the start map to reflect that it's ad_e1m3 and not ad_sepulcher.

Personally I believe that it's an excellent attempt at an e1m3 remix that even can stand on its own even in beta form. (Of course you may disagree.) Part of the reason I posted it here was because in the event that the final version is never released, it's definitely worth playing.

Also because as is evident from all the screnshots, the reconstruction and iteration was indeed massive, and I fear that the "remix elegance" (if that is even a term) of this version may be lost in translation.

If you want me to pull this off Quaketastic then give me the word. 
No Worries 
I just wanted to clarify, sepulcher is not e1m3, it's a new place! I would be better off making a new attempt at e1m3, many lessons learned since April. 
Ad_azad Broken ? 
I found two bugs in the map ad_azad (yes, I downloaded the latest version from the update above) :

There's a hole on the ground, next to an entrance at the end of a cave corridor, in which I could fall in. I then get stuck in that hole.

The major bug happens at the end, after I enter that big room with columns, and a transparent tube protecting a pentagram. Nothing happens and I get stuck in that room. All doors are locked. Had to use noclip to get out, but can't find the exit. 
 
Barnak, in regards to the final "bug" i believe you need to gib the body on the ground with the Shadow Axe. 
Gibs.. 
Ah yep, it worked, thanks ! But this was disgusting ! ;-)

Then I'm stuck again. One last door is still closed, and dunno what to do next.

Fantastic level, by the way. :-) 
 
Good Read, Thanks! 
 
Nice Interview! 
 
Reading That Makes You Feel Pround, Even Through You Wasn't Part Of It 
Thank you all for sharing this project and all of its content. 
Proud* 
 
 
Reading that sock uses batch files to run his compilers was a nice treat. I do the same - not sure why, it's just a habit I settled into when I first started mapping. 
Golem Crashing QS 
I hope this wasn't because of my "request guys. Sorry if it was...

http://i.imgur.com/iH98UpB.jpg

I was working on a storyboard level and had that happen. It reproduces pretty easily, for me.

Oh btw, Arcane Dimensions is awesome <3 We might have some preview wip screenies :) 
#374 Cont. 
This is the issue in DP's console

http://i.imgur.com/WEXp8Zf.jpg

Is there a problem with "blockudeath"(self.think)? I mean that's where it stops each time?

I searched through the .qc but aside from the obvious typo or something easily recognizable I'm limited right now to picking up on what the problem is.

Also happened at Gotshun's so it's not just my PC. 
For The Melee Only Golem 
Could be because th_pain is never assigned. 
Here Is Something To Try 
Set the melee only spawnflag but also set the statue spawnflag. If no error occurs, then it is definitely because it doesn't set th_pain. The golem_wakefinished function sets th_pain for you after the statue wakes. 
@Qmaster 
That's how I am getting this error. I start with those spanwflags(melee only + statue) set!

I think it is when he goes for the "punch" animation that it occurs. Also, maybe, I'm not positive on this, in godmode it doesn't happen?

I'll try one of the AD maps and see if it is specific to ME! Hindsight, I should have did that to begin with :( 
AD 1.5.2 
I'll take a look at the golem crash later when I have some time. In the mean time, are there any other known bugs anyone has found. I don't think Sock or the other mod members would mind if I do an updated code patch for any other loose ends.

(DISCLAIMER: I operate on the principle of improving what is open source for the benefit of the mod community. Any bugs that I claim to fix or any features added are soley the whim of Qmaster and in no way reflect the mod authors intention or approval unless specifically stated by one of the official members. I only offer services purely because Sock has stated he is no longer updating the mod (why would he, maintaining a mod is a lot of work, especially when so many people keep throwing out feature requests (Yes, I may have been one of those people, at least I know how to implement them ;) .))) 
 
One thing that would be great is that all you AD modders would gather together to implement your stuff into a "main trunk" mod instead of each being a separate fork of the original AD... 
This Is Turning Into Quite An Early Christmas Present! 
I've just finished Leptis Magna with only 1 secret left to find and all but 2 kills on normal -- there are 2 gargoyles that won't wake up. Epic awesomeness! Looking forward to Terror Fuma next, then MFX's and Sock's remixes. Cheers! 
 
there are 2 gargoyles that won't wake up

They wake up when you get one secret. 
 
In the mean time, are there any other known bugs anyone has found.

Single-shot weapons (like SSG) have been broken for a very long time. Symptoms: if you release the trigger at the wrong time, the weapon's animation will loop again without actually firing; during continuous shooting the muzzle flash frame comes too early.

My fix redone for 1.5:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9DxOfPvG2G1TDdaamhvZkJraTg

Disclaimer redux: I dunno if it will break your mod or blow your house up. The fix Works For Me(TM), but it's probably deficient in some way, because I have little experience with QC or programming in general.

What it does is it steers the animation to the idle frame and makes it stay there, unless the player keeps shooting. Or something. I already forgot. 
Elusive Secrets 
To those struggling to find final secrets on various maps even with noclip, here's a last-resort solution: boot up the source map in JACK, pull up the entity report in the map menu and filter the entities by class to "trigger_secret". Then you can go down the lines and hit "Go to" on each one to center yourself on the trigger in the 3D view and see if the surrounding area is one you've been to before. You can narrow it down that way. 
Oh 
Wasn't logged in. I feel obligated to claim responsibility for my work-around. Please send your e-donuts to me via the teleportation station at Metal Monstrosity. 
Triple Posts 
Speaking of Metal Monstrosity, I downloaded and played the original today before I realized AD 1.5 contained a remixed version. I thoroughly enjoyed the original, though ledge-crawling for secrets was tedious and dodging Bob-fire above the void was stressful to say the least. What's new in the remixed version? 
 
Better flow overall, just a much smoother and more satisfying experience with better secret-finding, and it greatly benefits from AD's expanded base roster. Though if you don't like fighting over voids that hasn't changed. 
 
I like the updated azad, BTW. 
#384 
This could be useful, thanks. Only in JACK or does TB have a similar feature? 
Mug 
I could be wrong, but I think only VHE derivatives had an entity report feature. 
Stage Dive Left 
Sock gets trolled
Indeed I did, last time I listen to proxy server trolls! :P

I am the person formerly active in this community as goldenboy. Post #270 was not written by me
I am sorry for the confusion, I did find it strange how you were so angry with me, sorry for accusing you. Lesson learned, always ignore proxy server people, they are a waste of space!

what will happen with ad_sepulcher?
I plan to finish the map next year and release it as something separate using the devkit.

If we could get the monsters that were going to come with it at least
There are only two monsters reserved for the map, boil and boglord. Really want to save them for the map, as the new monsters have special setups and uses.

I don't think Sock or the other mod members would mind if I do an updated code patch for any other loose ends
I am sorry to be the Destroyer of Dreams here, but I would prefer no community patches for AD. The MOD is finished, lets all move on to the devkit and start creating new and different MODs!

Arcane Dimensions was a crazy long two year project and now its time to move on (for everyone). If anyone wants to create more AD style content then please use the devkit! :) 
Sure 
No problem.

You heard the man

GO MAP! And have a Merry Christmas! 
Bah Humb.. 
Terror Fuma was a great one ... A crazy bastardized base level. Couldn't find my way up top though... might give it another go. 
FYI 
I do have 2 maps that were about half-finished for AD... I am hoping they will see the light of day eventually. :)

It's a shame that Quake has a directory requirement for mods. I like the named .pak thing that Preach made for Quoth, it's a super neat way of keeping your files under control :) 
Hype. 
what will happen with ad_sepulcher?
I plan to finish the map next year and release it as something separate using the devkit.


Nice one sock, at least another cool map will see light of day. 
Pak Management 
It's a shame that Quake has a directory requirement for mods. I like the named .pak thing that Preach made for Quoth, it's a super neat way of keeping your files under control :)

In the past I suggested the idea that engines could support multiple mod directories. The idea was that someone releases a map pack, let's call it "Empires", which requires AD. You'd install the new map pack into a mod directory called "empires", then run the engine with a new command line like like "-games ad,empires". The new engine feature would mean that the game searches three directories in order, first empires, then ad, then the default id1. Nobody took it up though, although some engines do have the -quoth switch which does this as a special case for Quoth.

If you want to DIY switching map packs with the -game command, here's one way that works with all engines. Make a clean install of Quake into a new directory, then install the AD content into the ID1 directory of that install. The point is to set it up so that AD runs from this installation without any -game command line switches. You can then install new maps in their own mod directory, and switch between them using the -game command.

Bonus commentary: The pak files thing was partially a way to achieve this idea without needing engine support. It was also a way for me to test a clean version of 2.2 with custom content, without having any loose files in the directory - it stopped me forgetting to pack vital things because they were elsewhere on my path. If the idea was popular I thought engines might also add some kind of console command that could load a named pak on the fly - but seeing the download stats for the paks the effort would not be justified. 
I Usually... 
Just unpack everything. 
@preach - Multigame Dir Is Sloppy, Fragile And Bad Design 
Nobody took it up though

The multi-gamedir concept is an extraordinarily sloppy concept and requires someone to be unfamiliar with the Quake precache system, unfamiliar with what Carmack did in Quake 2 and Quake 3 and what Value did with Half-Life and what Zoid did with Quakeworld for downloading.

The Quake precache system, including the QuakeC part is hostile to the idea of this concept. So is the demo system. Where is the information in QuakeC that indicates the source of a file? Or in demo playback.

The idea only sounds great to someone who isn't thinking about co-op, doesn't ever use an engine that supports map/model download and doesn't ever do multiplayer.

Have you ever connected to a DarkPlaces or Quakeworld coop server and watched it download the maps and models and then you play?

Is your plan to break that type of functionality?


Furthermore, how many mods ever reach a completion state to be trustable for multi-gamedir?

Answer: Not even Quoth.

Quoth updates frequently alter map author's maps in ways not necessarily wanted by the authors of the maps (I believe Negke and RickyT23 are examples. I had a complaint about a behavioral change that affects Warpspasm).

So hipnotic and rogue are "safe", but in large part because they have been undeveloped for 20 years.

Quoth has largely been safe because there were 6 years between the update in 2008 and the one 2014.

Furthermore, the Quake Injector doesn't support it and many people depend on it to play maps.

And even if it did, it introduces an extremely fragile and spaghetti-like relationship between mods. Ask any who has tried to use multiple content replacement paks in DarkPlaces how easy it is figure it out when things go very badly.

Perhaps gamedir has a brushmodel and a replacement texture for it, perhaps gamedir b has a brushmodel and no replacement texture for it. You will get the lovely combination of the a model getting a wrong replacement texture being used. This is just a trivial example.

Add to that!

PHYSICS

FitzQuake 0.85 introduced physics being affected by model dimensions. The actual gameplay of a mod can change if the wrong model or even a different model is used.

Multi-gamedir is a huge attack on:

1) Compatibility
2) Predictability
3) Author's intent
4) The engine being able to accurate assess exactly what the required content is
5) Communicating that to the client.
6) Introduces a whole new level of fragility where mods are now co-dependent and can break one another with the slightly change.

A few years ago you were the one with a creative comparison of numerous DarkPlaces incompatibilities and comparing it to Internet Explorer 6. It caused some changes to DarkPlaces to occcur to at least be more predictable and far less mod breaking in the default behavior.

But what you are suggesting is even worse.

You aren't making this terrible suggestion on purpose, I know ...

But rather you are making this terrible suggestion from a lack of diversity --- the tragedy of your idea is easily witnessed in wild with DarkPlaces pk3 support and replacement content and users crying for help saying "I want A to work with B" or "I want this progs to work with this content".

/All of the weaknesses and tragedies of multigame dir support are hiding in plain sight in reading DarkPlaces related posts in the QuakeOne forums.

It doesn't take reading more than 4 or 5 posts related to use of multiple pk3 or multiple gamedir content conflicts with DarkPlaces to get a quick handle of true horrors ...
 
#398 
Preach 
just got PREKT 
@kinn - Haha 
Now I'll never have to type Chapter 15 of the "Horrors of DarkPlaces" again.

I'll just copy/paste that post ;-) 
Yeah Except 
Baker, I think you're misunderstanding me, I'm not really looking for a console command (well, except for the very speculative last bit). I'm looking for a command line switch. And it's not for combining arbitrary mods, it's for combining a map pack which knows it's adding onto AD onto the standard AD installation. I don't think there would be any compatibility issues because each "mod" higher up on the chain knows what to expect below it (AD knows to expect ID1 files, the map pack knows to expect AD and ID1 files).

It might even let you fix the issues that future versions of a mod break compatibility by adding the progs to the map pack, thereby freezing the version of the progs which the map pack uses (although on the flip side this means that you won't get bug fixes from future versions either). Quoth implements this feature already with a batch file that renames a pak file to add it to the path, so it's doable in practice. I'm just suggesting that being able to do this directly, and with directories instead, would be nice. 
Multiple Gamedirs 
half of baker's rant is about people messing up paks/pk3s, rather than gamedirs... I suspect half the reason he's complaining is because he has no idea how to get it working with his special-case 'hdfolder' hack.

Demos don't even come in to it, or at least no more than a multiplayer server. Users have had to use -game manually for a long time, simply adding another gamedir changes NOTHING in that regard.


Frankly, multiple gamedirs are fine if mod makers take the necessary precautions.

1) Always include a progs.dat in your map packs. This gives future-proofing.
2) Update news posts etc as appropriate whenever someone finds a bug in the underlaying mod that might affect your map pack.
3) For multiplayer, if a mod adds/removes/changes frames in a model, then the new version of the model needs to use a different filename (the old may or may not need to be distributed).
4) For single player, if you want to make it friendly, then provide/check for 'quothversion.txt' or whatever from qc to give a more helpful error when content is missing/outdated. Imho Baker is part of the problem if his engine(s) still don't allow this.
5) For multiplayer, always provide your content in pk3s. Each new version gets its own pk3. Clients that support downloads can then download compressed data instead of wasting bandwidth and time. Again, engines that don't support pk3s are imho part of the problem.
6) Avoid the use of default.cfg or quake.rc. Clients should not auto-download these, and if they come from a downloaded pk3 then they at least shouldn't be given full priveledges (like including a 'save pak0.pak' line), which causes a few sandboxing issues.

All it takes is some discipline (well, that and no custom defaults).

Nobody took it up though
fte+dp already support multiple -games from the commandline, and have done for quite some time:
-game basemod -game mappack
equivelent console command for fte (with 'hdfolder' equivelentsish):
gamedir "basemod;*hdbasemod;mappack;*hdmappack" 
List Of 6 
6 great arguments against multiple gamedir support, really. If supporting something like that is going to require that much consistency from authors, there's no way it's going to work out well.

I mean, honestly! Updating news posts? Unique filenames for each version? Avoiding use of default.cfg/quake.RC? Very few developers have managed that level of professionalism or quality in their releases over the past 20 years.

And as much as the stated goal is to provide an easy way to load map packs from their own separate directory, I can't see what recourse an engine developer would have to stop people from using it with anything else. Maintaining a list of what's compatible and what's not is infeasible, so I imagine you could easily end up with strange cases of mods partially overriding other mods or just straight up crashing, just like Baker mentioned.

I'd like to be proven wrong on that point, though. I've never tried multigamedir in engines that support it so I'm curious as to how they solve or work around the problems of inappropriate use. 
 
That list of 6 requirements (NOT arguments) are things for mods with a specific base mod in mind, which is what Preach was talking about (according to #402).

But hey, lets all make multiple copies of AD. One complete copy for each map pack that depends upon it. Then we can get the quakeinjector/downloads to redownload it all multiple times.
Yes, that's a much better idea. Not. 
Who Uses DarkPlaces 
other than weird people who like Quake better when it has textures from a shitty Xbox-era game coated with a fresh coat of jizz? 
 
I didn't figure you as someone who would make this kind of derogatory comments, Lane. Funny thing is, the feature you're bashing DP for is the one that's also supported by QS, so I guess you should shit on QS too, just to be fair...

There's more to DP than hi-rez textures, like for example support for replacement models or a killer real-time lighting system. BTW, if you ever wander at QuakeOne.com, you'll see that a lot of quakers use DP. 
I'm Sorry Mugwump 
One of these days I'll buy you a drink and tell you about my last.fm days. 
Copy... Why? 
I think I'm missing something in this whole discussion, sadly.
If we're releasing map packs for mods, which is what people are saying multigamedir would be best for, why would we actually need multigamedir? Map packs are just collections of .bsp, .lit and other files that can simply be plonked down into the /maps directory of a mod installation.

Or are we talking about map packs that are more than just map packs? So, sub-mods?

I ask because Spike mentions creating multiple copies of AD for various "map packs that depend on it", but so far that hasn't been necessary for releases that use AD in the past so... yeah. Confused. 
No Worries, 
I don't take offence easily. And I am a bit weird... ;) 
 
the jizz would be the awful bump maping? ja!

- i dislike bump maping. in old games, in new games.
- i don't like the new dp particle, smoke and blood effects either.

+ i don't have problem with hd textures, though

- i remain unimpressed with RTlights

+ i like water reflections, dp have those right? pretty water and all that... i couldn't make it work.

+ i like seven's smc mod. well, half of the mod, but comes with a .cfg to disable things.


+ and i would bow and praise if i see actual realtime raytracing lightning coming from those bizantine mosaics.
+ or, more realistically, sun rays like those in stalker clear sky in the morning, but colored (and various colours!). those mosaics are begging for something like that 
Pritchard 
why would we actually need multigamedir?
For cleanliness and ease of use? A new folder for each map pack would prevent the cluttering of the mod's \maps folder. 
 
omg, omg
i remembered

i didn't play tfuma, azad or magna yet!
omg, omg

i will record demo in skill 3. without deaths if possible, with quickloads instead of restarting the level if i die 
@ #406 
I do! Dp and fte support multiple game directories which I use all the time with no issues. Not to mention all of their other features, but having those features doesn't mean you have to turn them all on or turn up the "jizz". Whatever the hell that is to you...LOL 
 
Avoiding use of default.cfg/quake.RC? Very few developers have managed that level of professionalism or quality in their releases over the past 20 years.

Okay, so how do we provide our own settings while staying professional? 
 
It's not my criteria, don't ask me. A lot of people seem unhappy with the idea of you providing your own settings though... 
 
i thought quake.rc was the correct way to do it. autoexec.cfg and config.cfg are the ones that you should never include. 
Multiple Gamedir 
Yeah I for one definitely vote for having multiple gamedir support in an engine as it gives so much freedom to the end user with regard to how he wishes to combine different gameplay mods, assets, and maps. I have been using this feature for years with DP, and since its development slowed down, I have picked up first QS then Mark_V but the multi gamedir support has always been what I miss most of DP, on par with multi folder mod directory support (e.g. DP.exe -game ./addon/czg07) 
Kingold 
Are you aware that LordHavoc is working on his engine again? Check the link in post #159 and download either the nightly autobuild or one of the 2016 betas. No, they're not in the Downloads section... Bonus: you'll get alpha-masked texture support, so these vines in AD will no longer look broken. 
Configs Explaination 
using a default.cfg in a base mod that a map pack depends upon runs the risk of a user installing the map pack, and getting a config.cfg auto-saved from it when the base mod wasn't installed. Which means that the default.cfg still doesn't do anything when they do finally get the multiple games enabled.

In multiplayer, the client will not know that it needs to download a new default.cfg.


I'm not necessarily saying no default.cfg ever, rather I'm saying that any changed settings within the default.cfg will not always be usable.
Just be aware that custom default.cfg files won't always be execed, or might be execed after its settings were already saved into config.cfg

qss+fte have a customisable binds menu, which is one way for a user to fix things up if their prior config.cfg overrode newer defaults (an updated default.cfg might still rebind stuff if something was not previously bound, at least, just don't depend upon the user having no prior binding).

qss+dp+fte all support set+seta console commands to create custom cvars from eg default.cfg (as well as autocvars, in case the default.cfg was missing or the engine ignored set/seta). Such custom cvars won't exist in prior config.cfgs so they'll pick up their correct default once the correct default.cfg is installed. Not (ab)using temp1 means that its default value of 0 becomes irrelevant.

Imho the only valid use of a custom quake.rc is to change the auto-play demo list. any changes before config.cfg should be done by modifying the default.cfg instead, while any changes after override the user's settings and are thus user-hostile. 
Configs 
Seasoned mod users delete the .cfgs shipped with a mod before even running it anyway, so they're basically useless. 
Ya 
But it can bite you in the aft end if a mod binds custom impulses, so the truly seasoned just rename it, skim it for anything modspecific, the paste in their own cfg and add the mod binds as necessary. 
Demo! 
ad_azad
skill 3
37:11 ; 2/10 secrets ; 161/192 monsters ;; 3 deaths
so much for no dying
good architecture 2/10 secrets... those secrets are well hidden. i died the three times because of monster ambushes
i liked that section with those wood.. mmm.. scaffoldings... or whatever...
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B72Jjyg-RfNFZGZUNkhoUWl2Njg 
Multiple Gamedir Justification 
I thought I should mention one of the main motivations for having some way of separating out the content that comes with a map from the content that comes with a mod. There is a benefit to neatness, and with that you get the ability to "uninstall" a map and its content cleanly. But the main benefit to my mind is to avoid conflicts.

Suppose that two maps released for AD both come with their own unique skybox, but by coincidence both name the skybox "dusk". If you just extract both maps directly into the AD folder, one skybox will overwrite the other. The direction of the lighting at dusk needs to match with the position of the sun in the skybox, so it's likely that one map now looks broken.

The same risk applies to external models, sounds, and other resources, and the important change that AD and Quoth make is that these custom resources can be loaded by a map without needing to create a new mod. As more people take advantage of the features, there is a greater need to bundle together the map and its own resources into a single package.

A pak file makes for a nice, easy to handle bundle, because it's all a single file (and pk3 has the bonus of compression). However, I think the gamedir has won the day because it has lower cost of creation, has the necessary engine support, and degrades gracefully - people who can't or don't want to use the feature can continue to extract the zip file into the base directory. Cheers Spike for making that happen, it's always fun when you ask for a feature and get equally forceful replies of "stop asking for that, it's impossible" and "stop asking for that, we did it ages ago"! 
 
If you just extract both maps directly into the AD folder, one skybox will overwrite the other. The direction of the lighting at dusk needs to match with the position of the sun in the skybox, so it's likely that one map now looks broken.

A bit of offtopic, but I'm glad people care about these things now. Some years ago developers small and big were seemingly unaware of the relationship between the shadows on the ground and that weird bright spot in the sky.

Attaching a lens flare effect to the latter - sure, looks purdy. Shadows are pointing towards the sun - uhhh, so what? 
#425 
Back in 2005 I do remember trying to get quake engine authors to agree on a standard orientation for the skybox. I wouldn't be surprised if there's still inconsistency in sky orientation even today*

(* no evidence to back that up, just saying I wouldn't be surprised) 
Been Replaying Stuff 
When I first discovered the credits map, I was absolutely charmed. My first and last thought was something along the lines of "This is the best version of Oneiros I've ever seen, minus the color palette". But not because I didn't like the palette, it was just different.

Now it looks much closer to Oneiros, but I'm not sure it actually benefits the map. The old version was like something out of a fairy tale. The 1.5 version is white on magenta - rather cold and lifeless, but not in a cool way.

Maybe a warmer shade for the main color would improve it, but right now it kinda lacks contrast.

Or maybe it's the baby duck syndrome again. 
Dwere 
First off, the connection you made with Oneiros never ocurred to me while making the credits map.
But i see your point now.
Concerning the light in the map, the bounce and phong shading has a general "brighten up everything" tone to it, it lacks contrast in the end. Besides other points.

I admit wholeheartly, those features where just "tacked on" to the original map files when recompiling, so the results are what they are.

Glad for your feedback tho, thx a ton, you actually spoke out one of my main concerns about it...and any future maps will be lit accordingly... Yep. 
@Topher 
Thanks for your demos so far! Glad you liked it. 
Oneiros 
Is this a Quake map? I've searched Quaddicted with this keyword but it returned no result.

I never played the 1.42 version of the end map but I saw a screenshot with a decidedly different dark blue sky. Any specific reason for the tone change? This can't be just because of the lighting, can it? Now I have to reinstall 1.42 to see the difference!

Anyway, I enjoyed the 1.5 version quite a lot. I love the islands-in-the-sky theme. BTW, what's with the monster count? I got only 2 frags in the end while having actually killed much more - and no fish. 
Clive Barker's Undying 
Great game. 
Mugwump 
i was refering to this

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneiroi

Clive Barkers Undying had no influence on the design tbh, as i don't know this game :) 
Oh 
and the monstercount you can't rely on.
All of the monsters spawned via the hidden button do not add up to the final count, because of the "nomonstercount" flag. 
Correction 
not a flag, its just a key set on those monsters. 
 
First off, thanks for the french wiki link, that's a nice attention, though I wouldn't have minded an english link.

Hmmm, "demons with black wings"... So I guess the Night Gaunts are these Oneroi.

As a Clive Barker fan, I did play Undying back in the day. I thought it was a pretty good game but I don't remember much of it, and Oneiros doesn't ring a bell. I might reinstall it someday.

BTW, you haven't answered my question about the color tone change. 
I Haven't Answered Because Its Minor In My Eyes. 
 
Fair Enough 
I asked out of curiosity but yeah, gameplay is what really matters. I loved how it's mostly exploration for the first part and then, right when you grab the secret, all hell breaks loose! Minor quibble: the last "boss" fight is a bit anticlimactic, especially compared to the secret fight: all you have to do is safely snipe from the other side of the bridge. 
I Know 
but there has to be some things to moan about in the end, nothing will ever be perfect. words words words.... 
Hah! 
Rest assured that of your maps I've played so far, I very rarely have anything to moan about. BTW, how's work progressing on your spaceship map that you teased us with a few screenshots some time ago? I expected it to be in 1.5 and was a bit disappointed to see it wasn't there... 
 
Oh well, that map needs some rest again, the tech/engines aren't ready yet. Or sth. 
Awww... It Looked Great! 
And we don't have many space maps in Quake. What's so special about it that modern engines can't handle? 
Simple 
Too many faces being drawn at once, because of excessive facecount/geometry being too detailed. Huge vistas play a role too. I hardly expect this to not improve over the time, tbh.
We'll see, but atm the map is unoptimized. And not much fun to play. 
 
This can't be just because of the lighting, can it?

Well, it seems to me that the only major change is the fog color. Even the skybox is the same, but the way the fog affects it (I think it's the fog) makes a lot of difference.

Also, it seems to me that the shadows remain cold, which doesn't work as well with magenta as the primary color of the sky. 
Dwere 
if you don't mind, give some examples (like screenshots), so i can follow your reasoning more closely. I try to improve the light with every new map (and with older ones revisited), so im glad with any feedback you leave here.
Thx in advance. 
Basically.... 
MFX, GO MAP. 
#421 
They do?! Define seasoned? After 20 years I must not be seasoned. I examine the files before I put them where needed under my quake directory, read the readme for mention of need to know impulses & other info and not blindly delete anything. You described the opposite of seasoned. 
 
Is there a document detailing the wave/trigger setups for the bosses (ice goldem, eidolon)? 
#446 
I think he meant seasoned as in "herbs and spices". Well marinated Quakers tend to taste better when you delete their config files. /s 
LOL Pritchard! 
@xaGe Well, it never hurts to take a look of course, but what I described is the very abbreviated version of the advice I was given several times when I was still very new to the community from people who have done it for years when I complained that some mods fucked my config up and forced me to redo it all over again. I never meant that they do it blindly, or that anyone should for that matter. 
@preach - It's Awesome You Read Me Correctly 
It might even let you fix the issues that future versions of a mod break compatibility by adding the progs to the map pack, thereby freezing the version of the progs which the map pack uses (although on the flip side this means that you won't get bug fixes from future versions either).

I've been thinking about this. You read my mind.

I want a mapper's map to be played in the context of the original mapper's intent.

About Spike: Spike is 1/3 right and 2/3 wrong.

I love Spike, Spike is very intelligent.

But 18 months ago, Spike didn't fully understand what the Quake Injector did or why it was important.

I'll just say this: Spike is wrong. I'll prove it later.

I can explain exactly why Spike is wrong.

I'm rather happy you correctly interpreted my posts from my point of view of someone who cares about the infrastructure of Quake and the intention of mappers.

I also wish you structured the Quoth 2.2x updates in the same "peel back" manner as previous Quoth release.

Story for another time. 
@spike 
multiple gamedirs are fine if mod makers take the necessary precautions.

Bullshit.

I know of examples that even mods with all the precautions possible, the engine cannot handle correctly because the right information isn't available.

It is also obvious in your very careful wording "necessary precautions" that you damn well know there are a number of conflicting scenarios possible.

You already know "multi-game" has very negative consequences and is poorly designed. 
@spike - A Simple Example 
1) AD modded by community, version 1.
2) My mod that depends on AD. version 1.

Which progs.dat gets used? Mine of course.

Then dwere fixes the super shotgun model in "AD modded by community, version 1" by adding a couple frames. And he patches the progs.dat and source code.

Of course, now my "My mod that depends on AD" is now broke. Because my progs.dat is the one that runs, and it doesn't know about the new model frames.

The whole multigamedir concept depends on non-development. The slightest change in a dependency throws a wrench into everything.

And what's fun, I have examples of how it can get hilariously screwed up even with "all the right precautions". Awesome stuff.

Pictoral view - educational, for sure

What could possibly go wrong? 
 
if you don't mind, give some examples (like screenshots), so i can follow your reasoning more closely

I would, but I'm not sure what I should depict. I'm probably pulling this last bit about the shadows out of my ass anyway.

What I was trying to say is that the sky is pretty saturated, so it should probably affect all exposed surfaces by making them absorb some of its hue. But the ambient (not sunlight) hue seems to be cooler, and not much different (if at all) from when the sky was blue.

Since the sky/fog color isn't that warm, maybe it's okay; but something forced me to make this observation, so I dunno. I'm not gonna pretend I have a deep understanding of how this should work. 
@baker 
Then dwere fixes the super shotgun model in "AD modded by community, version 1" by adding a couple frames
which is why I listed this precaution
if a mod adds/removes/changes frames in a model, then the new version of the model needs to use a different filename (the old may or may not need to be distributed).
obviously that needs to be followed by the original mod ANYWAY if you want multiplayer to work well when people may have slightly different versions installed. If dwere causually changed a model then its dwere's fault (poor dwere, getting picked on like this) if something (like multiplayer, or hi-res replacement models) fucked up because of it.

multiple gamedirs already exist. id1, qw, $enginedir, hipnotic, quoth, $mod (+homedir versions of each)...
Keeping extra blockages to prevent people from doing what they want when the engine must already be able to cope with it is just user hostile, imho, but to each their own I guess. Without it I guess people will just have to keep on making copies of large (and possibly copyrighted) mods.
Anyway, your engine, your limitations. Whatever. 
 
ad_tfuma
skill 3
54:45 ; 6/13 secrets ; 211/245 monsters ;; 3 deaths
wow
i really liked the new monsters. i don't if any of you knows the doom's mod "winter's fury" (awesome wad), but poison instead of ice. i decided to end the map before trying to get to the roof. well, the next time i will try to do a 100% run, no matter how much time it takes.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B72Jjyg-RfNFV0gxNlR6bU5rOEk 
No Making Copies, Just NOT Using That Engine. 
Not that I could anyway since it doesn't seem to support Linux, but that's not the point.

On Linux at least you could symlink files and folders to save space, but still not as friendly as command line multiple directory support. 
Going To Play Through The Rest Of This In About An Hour 
 
ad_magna
skill 3
2 deaths
i did not take notes of time, monsters and secrets. but it's the biggest demo in filesize. 165mb, ~2.4gb uncompressed
impressive really. really long map, lots of secrets, lots of monsters, good gameplay.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B72Jjyg-RfNFZERmakkzZ2w1U28

well, i finished playing all the maps
what can i say that hasn't been said? it's a shame that this mod don't have more exposure. it's really that good, the gameplay is excellent.
doom has a better gameplay, that's why it has a bigger modding comunity and vibrancy. quake it's my favourite game of the two, but perhaps it's the first pc game that i played.
but with arcane dimensions, quake has better gameplay that doom or any of doom mods i played. better yet, it's simple enough that any "casual" player can grasp it quickly and enjoy the game. the maps have high replayibility

i played mods in doom, unreal, half-life I & II, age of empires II & III, warcraft III, homeworld series, total war series, stalker, oblivion, skyrim, etc. and this is the best mod that i encountered thus far. long war for xcom:eu and perma for skyrim are awesome high quality mods. i find arcane dimensions better than those two, wich i previously considered the best gameplay mods in games (that i know, and not counting counter-strike, but that's multiplayer). 
Thx Topher 
Cool demos! 
Can Ad Be Done Chopped? 
i will try, with the following rules:
* easy difficulty
* no reloading.
* no speed demo. i am not interested in doing it in the shortest time.
* shooting buttons allowed
* a couple of really accidental shots allowed. ie: when you pick a weapon during a fight.
* shot at flying enemies allowed but only when it won't come to ground level.

i'm not sure how many maps i can finish this way.

here it is ad_e1m1 done chopped (the easiest one):
http://www.quaketastic.com/files/demos/ad_e1m1_topher_axe.7z 
 
more fun!

ad_e2m2
this one was tricky
those hammer ogres are a nightmare to fight with the axe. for now.. until i figure out how to fight them well.

http://www.quaketastic.com/files/demos/ad_e2m2_topher_axe.7z 
@spike 
I'm not really looking for kind of argument that causes tension.

I could have decided to file the topic in the "I don't care" department. It doesn't materially impact me.

However, what good am I if I don't cite the reasons this has already been tried and failed.

It has failed every time it has been tried, and history repeats itself. If we called it "Windows DLL Hell" or if we were instead calling it Quakespasm Spiked requiring 32-bit libraries but the 64-bit ones have the same name you'd likely agree with me.

Although without Quake Injector support and support for it in the Quaddicted database, will be interesting to see how the average user would even install them.

-- Or are you under the impression that all these new guys that can't find their Quake folder are manually installing things like Arcane Dimensions and Quoth and then doing the command line themselves like an expert? Haha

Anyway, I did my part to share knowledge. ;-)

This doesn't affect me. And besides, I recommend you go with this.

Will be more fun saying "See I told you, hahah".

To be a good predictor, need to have someone super-smart like you who didn't listen and walked in the minefield anyway ;-)

Will make me look good.

/Anyway, Spike your #1 in my book. Done talking about this boring subject anyway, fun stuff is what I like. 
More Axe Fun 
ad_metmon
this one was easy. i did it in the first attempt in twenty or so minutes
http://quaketastic.com/files/demos/ad_metmon_topher_axe.7z 
 
I rarely watch demos but an axe challenge could be fun to watch. I'd like to see how you axe a pyro, an ice golem or a fury knight... Which protocol are you using? 
 
protocol 666, quakespasm
fury knight are the one with two swords? i tackled one with a quad damage in this demo.
for now, the hammer ogre are the one who are seriously giving me fight and killing me. i don't record the failures.

e2m7 was hard but not as hard as e2m2. in e2m2 i finished the level after like 12 attempts or more. i made e2m7 after 5 attempts.

playing in easy certainly helps. somehow i still get shot by those xbow knights. they are good.

http://quaketastic.com/files/demos/ad_e2m7_topher_axe.7z 
If You Watch Demos... 
i watch demos with markv, that sourceport has rewind and fast playing, with the arrow keys. quakespasm doesn't have that 
 
Heh, yeah a quad certainly helps! You get hit by crossbow knights? They do have great accuracy but in skill 0 their shots are very sloooooow. 
Topher 
ad_e2m2 @5'42": Challenge failed! ;) You nailed a crossbow knight while the ledge he stands on is accessible (in fact, you land upon it @9'32"). 
 
MARKV has a bug with the rewind feature in demos. when you rewind, the clock go forward instead of backward.
when you pause (down arrow) and unpause, the time is resynced.

the real time is 3:55
that xbow knight is unaprocheable with axe.

when i jumped after grabbing the sharpshoter powerup (8:53), i jumped in another area. 
Pyro Explode On Death? 
Is this a bug, I remember using gibondeath value 1 : Explode on death earlier. But now I tried it and it didn't explode. I was planning placing pyro near the explosive boxes, and after pyro is death it might trigger some boxes to explode in a row and hurt player a bit. Not sure does explode has any radius/blast damage? 
 
Is there any good way to make a misc_smoke "start" its animation? It's pretty annoying having it just pop in when it's been triggered. 
Zendar Axed 
ad_zendar

i have to say, the new axe make the axe only runs much more easy and quick

i shot the nour for brevity and for my sanity
http://www.quaketastic.com/files/demos/ad_zendar_topher_axe.7z 
Shell Splash 
Has anyone else noticed that shotgun shells make a splash sound if they land in water, but only after hitting a dry surface first? Weird. 
 
Grenades behave the same, IIRC.

Probably some quirk in how MOVETYPE_BOUNCE works. 
 
I am now officially requesting a mod that turns the shotgun shells into little mini grenades. 
 
Technically, they ARE grenades...

void(float shell_qty) Launch_ShellCasing =

{

local vector org, dir, avel;

if ( self.health < 1 ) return;
if (query_configflag(SVR_SHOTGCASE)) return;

if (self.flags & FL_CLIENT) makevectors (self.v_angle);
else makevectors (self.angles);
org = self.origin + v_up*10;

while (shell_qty > 0)

{

dir = -v_right*75 + v_forward*(random()*50) + v_up*(100 + random()*100);
avel = vecrand(0,300,TRUE);
Launch_Grenade(org, dir, avel, CT_PROJ_SHELLC);
shell_qty = shell_qty - 1;

}

};
 
 
I am now officially requesting a mod that gives the shotgun shells trajectory distance drop off, but also gives grunts and dbs enforcers z-awareness to compensate. 
 
What happened to mon_eel? It seems to be entirely non-existent except for one tantalizing line in the documentation. Was it cut from the release? 
 
There was a build I tested with mon_eel, it was a projectile type monster instead of a close range style one from the expansion.

I don't remember having great things to say about the implementation in place, plus I wasn't making a level that utilised it. None of the new maps had significant water sections so I am guessing Sock considered it bloat and binned the enemy off. 
 
Is it possible to have an item resting on top of a func_breakable that falls down when said breakable is destroyed? 
 
there are several secrets in ad maps that are exactly that 
 
I believe the spawnflag "Floating" on items is what youre after.

ad_necrokeep does this. 
Yap 
Breakable targets item you want to fall. Have it start with floating flag. 
 
KingDime plays ad_tfuma:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/124742745 
I Feel Bad 
that he didnt work out the secret language of the red painted doors (with skull wings). If he just hit the first door he'd be set. Oh well.

He seemed to have enjoyed it mostly. 
 
How are we supposed to enter the path for ambient_custom_sound? Using the noise key, I tried "sound/ambience/liquid_bubble.wav", "ambience/liquid_bubble.wav" and "liquid_bubble.wav" and none of them worked. 
AFAIK 
All custom sounds go in "sound/" but you do not include it as part of your path.

Hence, your "ambience/liquid_bubble.wav" should work as long as it's a valid .wav file, no spelling errors and is located in the "ambience" directory inside of the "sound" directory.

This is taken from an ad_swampy custom sound entity: "ambience/woodcreak2c.wav"

Using "liquid_bubble.wav" would mean that you just have that .wav file under the "sound" directory by itself.

It's pretty straight forward so I don't know why you are having problems with it, good luck. 
 
I ended up copying an entity from ad_swampy after I decided to check it out myself, and when I put it in my map and changed which sound it played everything worked fine... Honestly not sure what I was doing wrong before but oh well... 
 
Is it possible to make it so that enemies can't see through transparent water? referring to this change:

+ sightchecks can changed based on water alpha values (water=1;solid)
 
 
 
Grenade resistance is pretty nifty 
@pritchard 
In the 50 days between your posts, you could have looked at the Arcane Dimensions source code.

Which Sock, being one of the "good guys", made Arcane Dimensions open source as deliberate decision because "it's the right thing to do", not because it was "required to do".

I'm merely pointing out you have many avenues to address your own interests here that do not rely on begging Sock to reply or say something. 
??? 
It's not like my most recent post was "begging" - it was just a slightly humorous 12 second long video clip.

And neither was my previous one. It was just asking if it was "possible" - as in, can it be done, and if so could you please point me in the right direction and let me do it myself?

Since then I've figured out a solution anyway, so it's not like my most recent post is me sticking my hand up and saying "hey, you forgot about me!" or something obnoxious like that. 
 
I was just saying that Sock kindly went out of his way to enable others to examine, change or inspect the behavior of Arcane Dimensions -- so no one had to depend on him as the only way to know what X does or even change the behavior of X.

if so could you please point me in the right direction and let me do it myself?

As a last and final resort, I would certainly help you.

But what you should really do is is a text search for the source code for the word "sightchecks" and then if you need help ask in the Coding Help thread.

There are others more experienced with QuakeC and far more familiar with the AD code that regularly post in the help threads. 
Reading Comprehension 
"Since then I've figured out a solution anyway, so it's not like my most recent post is me sticking my hand up and saying "hey, you forgot about me!" or something obnoxious like that."

"Since then I've figured out a solution anyway..."

"Since then I've figured out a solution anyway..."

Anyway, in the interest of making this post actually contribute to the conversation, here's how you can block AI sight through water in AD without having to recompile/redistribute the entire codebase with your map:

1. set "water_alpha" "1" in worldspawn
2. create an info_stuffcmd with:
"message" "r_wateralpha 0.5"

That's it. You'll be able to swim around undetected by those above you, unless you break the surface.

I'm a bit concerned about info_stuffcmd - I might be setting a user's settings "permanently" when I use it, which isn't great. But still, it's better than making my map require its own folder separate from AD - where it would use up far more HDD space with duplicate files etc. 
 
Cool. Yeah, sometimes I get caught up reading each sentence. Sorry, haha ;-)

Guilty as charged ... 
Didn't Know What Thread To Post This In... 
I've been playing AD today and really like it a lot, but on certain maps (ad_azad, ad_tfuma, possibly others) my framerate crawls to an unplayable slideshow. I've tried it both quakespasm and dx9 MarkV with similar results for each. Is there a particular effect in those maps that would so drastically reduces FPS or what? Most of the time maps run with very high FPS. I've tried looking into settings to mess with, but admittedly I'm not very adept with this stuff. 
 
I also notice stuttering on tfuma, I think the size of these maps, and thus the amount of polygons being rendered is what is causing the fps to go down. My only suggestion is that you try to turn down screen resolution under the video settings. I am running a low level quad core Pentium with integrated graphics and my frame rate is ok, but only because my resolution is turned down a little. You can also try turning off vertical sync (in game) and anti-aliasing in your video card settings.

Maybe someone with more knowledge can help you more, sorry. 
 
QuakeC can also be a framerate killer.

If there are a lot of entities and if anything with exponential complexity is happening in QC, it can easily enough pull framerates down.

Have you tried disabling the AD particles? There's an impulse for this you should be able to find in the readme. 
Kind Of Weird... 
Okay, so I installed Quake and AD in a Linux partition just now, and tried playing the maps again, and for whatever reason the framerate issues are gone. The game isn't going under 60 fps on either tfuma or azad. I'm not sure what the deal is really. Maybe the intel drivers in linux are just better than the one's in windows? 
Is There Still Anyone 
who doesn't know that Windoze is a crappy OS? If only Linux was as user-friendly...

More seriously and on topic, from my absolutely not tech-savvy POV, I doubt it's a driver problem: one would think Intel would take at least as much care of their drivers for the (by far) most widely distributed OS as those for Linux. 
I Have A Question 
for Sock or any AD mapper who would know the answer: is it possible to build a ladder that could be climbed in one go just by simply pressing the forward key (like most other mods do) instead of the slower step-by-step approach? This is fine in more realistic games but in Quake it makes the player lose precious seconds that would be better used blowing things up and/or running the hell away from danger... 
 
Yes, make a very steep clip brush with increments of 2 Quake units steps the full width of the ladder.

All the classic era maps do this and you could build a ladder to a 2nd tier and it will be thin.

Limitation: It isn't practical to use this method for much more height than that. 
 
I knew about this method for having seen this done many times since Doom but I was hoping to make really vertical ladders, not what is basically a steep staircase.

Thanks anyway, Baker. 
Hacky Ladders 
each step needs to be <= 18qu high, and thanks to editors+qbsp compilers with non-integer verticies the horizontal distance can be 1/8th of a qu or so without any issues. Yes its not vertical, but can still be quite steep. That said, precision issues might favour sticking to 16:0.25 per step instead of 18:0.125
You could also sneakily angle the surface behind the ladder in such a way that the slope of the ladder is hidden somewhat.

that said, at high physics framerates it'll feel almost like teleportation... :s 
Thank You Spike 
I'll try that and see how it goes. While you're here, I have a tiny OT question (sorry Sock) for you regarding QSS: is it possible to set water, dirty water, slime and lava alpha levels independently from each other? Also their respective opaqueness when the player is swimming under the surface? 
Mugwump 
QS (and QSS) have r_wateralpha, r_slimealpha, r_lavaalpha, r_telealpha cvars. Also respective wolrdspawn keys without the "r". Can't have a different opacity above/below though. 
OK Thanks 
But there's no differenciation whatsoever between clear and dirty water, right? Also, I didn't meant "different opacity above/below" but "different opacity depending on fluid type". DP can do that, I was hoping Spike would have borrowed this feature... 
Thread Hijack 
If you mean q3shaders then no, I didn't add q3shaders to QSS. Only FTE and arguably DP support q3shaders. On the plus side, you can get QSS to spew particles from your water... yay?
Quite frankly, q3shaders suck, which is how DP can get away with supporting them so poorly, while FTE's more complete support means that unmodified shaders end up with no specular/etc.

It would be nice to have some simple material script (instead of 'shaders') that specifies how to handle various textures without significant implementation differences, but that sounds too much like politics for anything to actually come from it. 
OK, Thanks For The Reply Spike. 
Small OT officially over. Since I had this question for you and we were already talking in this thread, I thought it unnecessary to move to the QS thread for such a small question. Should I have moved it anyway? Sorry if it bothered some people. 
 
You can make a staggered wall panel so steep it seems ridiculous that the Quake guy would walk up it.

Spike is right it's a mind-blowing 18 in the engine source.

It would be like walking up the side of a house, with some minimum size brushes. I think the minimum brush width is 2 units (?), but if I am correct the minimum placement unit is 1 unit?

1 unit is half as thick as the thinnest railing someone has ever made in Quake if the above is correct.

I imagine no one has tried to make a maximum abusiveness ladder because I don't think any discussion of the specifics has ever occurred. 
 
I have a duplicate of Tokay's Towers that I made for Quake. The ladders were recreated using thin clip brushes in front of the ladders. They're triangular from the top view and point out from the face of the ladder. I think they are only 1 unit thick at that point. The biggest problem is that the player moves up them nearly instantly. It feels very unnatural. 
 
"almost like teleportation", "nearly instantly"... Damn guys, that wouldn't do. How are ladders made in other mods vs. AD, then? 
 
@Rick ... good point.

@Mugwump ... generally there aren't. Rubicon2 has ladders, if I recall they require a use key.

Half-Life had ladders everywhere, but without checking I imagine they were special brushes and the engine has altered physics to accommodate. 
 
Ladders in HL are func_ladder brush entities applied in front of the actual ladder. 
 
I haven't played Rubicon2 yet but I'm almost 100% positive that I have played a few Quake maps/mods containing ladders that only required to press forward. Can't remember which ones, though.

I've just checked the AD readme. Ladders are entities. How could one modify the ladder entity so that it does what I want? 
 
almost 100% positive that I have played a few Quake maps/mods containing ladders that only required to press forward

If you can remember the names, I could probably tell you how they did them. 
 
Actually, I'd rather learn how to modify the ladder entity. It would allow me to play existing AD maps with ladders to my liking instead of only creating ones for my own maps. 
Ones *some 
 
#518 
Actually, I'd rather learn how to modify the ladder entity. It would allow me to play existing AD maps with ladders to my liking instead of only creating ones for my own maps.

Please do it and let me know when it's ready. 
I Have No Idea How, 
which is why I asked in the first place. Can someone point me to a tutorial or explain (in n00b terms) how to do it? 
This Really Belongs In Mapping Help 
But,
If you set trigger_ladder speed to like 200 or 250 you can climb faster.

Is that what you mean? 
I Asked Here Because It Was AD-specific, 
but we can move this to mapping help if requested.

I mean setting ladders to be climbed in one go by pressing forward instead of jumping step-by-step. 
 
There was a mod called QuakeLife video.

As you can imagine, it is playing Quake co-operative with friends against the monsters on Half-Life maps.

It is likely that the source code to Quake-Life has a ladder solution, otherwise how could you play the Half-Life maps which are loaded with ladders?

https://github.com/autonomous1/quakelife (source code for Quake-Life) 
Ha! See? I Knew Some Mods Did That! 
I've never seen QuakeLife before, though...

But Baker, you know I ain't no coder. I can't do anything with a source code... 
You Just Hold Jump 
no need to jump step by step 
Oh...? 
Well, in all my AD playing I never realized that! :$

It significantly reduces the need for what I have in mind. Still, I would like to learn how to do something like that, for educational purposes. 
 
don't quoth ladders do it where pushing forwards (while looking up-ish) lets you go up? Also the pox extras mod does it, right? 
 
What should happen is ...

1) If the player is in contact with a ladder brush.

2) If the player has non-zero wish velocity (it's what it is called in the engine) -- i.e. the player intended movement vector ... which means X, Y, Z speed and direction.

3) If the wish velocity vector is facing the ladder, go up. If it is not, go down.

This would allow natural ladder movement.

I mean you can walk up a slope while looking down. You should also be able to press +forward while looking down and expect to go up a ladder.

You should be able to look up a ladder but press +backwards and go down.

Now is the above possible in QuakeC? I suspect not because ...

1) I don't think the engine tells QuakeC the wish velocity -- only the velocity after physics calculations. Without wish velocity all the alternatives are going to be unnatural.

2) A ladder brush would need to indicate what direction faces the ladder (i.e. north, south, east, wesst or some angle like 45). I doubt the ladder brushes have a physics angle key.

3) Probably would need to be done in the engine.

Here is how Quake 3 ladders work. I see wishspeed in there, so it sounds like I am correct:

https://www.quakewiki.net/archives/code3arena/tutorials/tutorial8.shtml

Would need to be in the engine anyway, DarkPlaces and FTE have prediction. So does Spiked Quakespasm if connected to a DarkPlaces server.

/One opinion ... 
 
You should also be able to press +forward while looking down and expect to go up a ladder. You should be able to look up a ladder but press +backwards and go down.

Maybe something simpler would do? Fall damage in Quake is low enough to not really need to climb ladders down.

I found this: https://tomeofpreach.wordpress.com/quoth/tutorial/trigger_ladder/
and it looks like that's what I was shooting for. So how can I port the Quoth ladder behavior to AD? Please be very n00b-friendly in your reply: I'm no coder and I don't understand any of it. I need a very thorough tut explaining in detail in simple non-coder terms how to go through each step of the process. 
Good Luck 
Preach keeps Quoth 2.2 qc under tight lock and key. 
Terror Fuma Secrets 
done it.

found 12 of 13 secrets.

anyone here find them all? 
Nope Only 12 
 
Hmm... 
i thought i had it.

there was a dead marine outside the base on a ledge next to a backpack.

it was hell to get to.

at first i thought i wasn't supposed to go by the route that i had taken, as i repeatedly kept on falling through the map at the same point!

i eventually made it!

turns out it wasn't a secret at all :(

well, it didn't trigger eitherway. 
Realm Of Enceladus Performance 
just after i start, approaching the archway, performance drops down to around 30!

is this a known issue?

apart from not running anything else apart from quake (browser anti-virus, downloads all stopped etc.).

to get a steady 60, were people having to run it using the older qs, not the spike version needed for forgotten sepulcher? 
Terra Fuma 
Ya, it was only after I got frustrated and noclipped that I found the ladder to get up top. Duh 
Yeah, 
i thought after all that, it would be a secret, but no :( 
Realm Of Enceladus 
did you get performance issues with the encaledus map?

when i head out into the open, find the left pathway, it tanks down to 30 from 144! 
Lo Frag Traff 
Try disabling the QSS particles (or use standard QS). If your rig isn't top notch, particles can have a heavy effect on framerate. 
Yep, 
an i3 and a 660.

i thought it would be fine for quake though.

just after ni posted previously, i decided to launch it with the standard qs, and, the problem went away.

so how would i disable the qss particles?

not that it would help, as it seems i have to start the map from the beginning for it to take affect.

i have a 2 execs:

spike and standard qs.

i'm halfway through the map now with standard qs, but when i attempt to launch the quicksave with the spike qs the particles are not there anyway. 
Lo Frag 
This has been discussed recently in the Forgotten Sepulcher thread. See post #77 here as well as posts #162-171 here.

PS: of course the particles are not there in QS, they're a specific feature of QSS... 
I Know That, But.. 
i started anew with qs, got half way through, saved.

i created a qss shortcut exe, booted up the last save i made when using the qs exe, but the particles were not there.

apologies if i'm missing something obviously simple, but if the frame issues were only limited to that first outside section, then i thought why not just plug on with the qss exe with the particles?

it it turned out it was tanking quite frequently on my rig with the qss exe, then i would just give up and stick to the qs exe.

qs is fine, but i was thinking about tweaking a bit instead of turning EVERYTHING off.

as it turns out, i didn't know about pr_checkextension 0 
Broke Realm Of Encaledus Map :( 
got stuck in here [21:44]:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B8Hv1XaKBY&t=1313s

couldn't get out :(

the door sealed behind me, and there was no guard or square key/icon to pick up in the middle of the room.

anyone else have this issue? 
Axe The Dead Marine Next To The Shadow Axe 
and all will be fine. Sorry for that stupid moment, it is totally my fault.

Ran out of time/ideas, so i decided to trigger the following events via the "axe him" action.

Stupid me.

Thx for playing/feedback! 
S'ok :) 
sorted!

aftere that i wondered around looking for secrets and taking the time out to admire the scenery/archtecture.

8/10 secrets.

couldn't find the rust key :( 
Horde Of Zendar! 
fuck me, this is a tough old bastard of a map!

i can see multiple replays of this so i can get the map layout in my head. 
Updated E2M2 
Not a fan of the changes. Some of the secrets were just removed. No more grenade jump secret, no more multiple silver keys and doors, no more hidden shootable switch for one of the elevators, what the hell? Seems to be designed to make first time players find everything in their first go. 
Going To Play Through The Update 
Starts in 45 minutes

https://www.twitch.tv/ionous 
@ Ionous [so..] 
was it just forgotten sepulcher that was updated?

it's just that i didn't read anything that mentioned there was an update.

for better or for worse, in your opinion? 
Horde Of Zendar 
finished it!

quite tough for me on skill 2.

9/10 secrets.

that scrag boss fucked me off no end! 
Again.. 
mental interlinkage map-wise from sock! 
Lo Frag Staff 
A few of the maps had minor updates, but the major addition was indeed Sepulcher. 
Horde Of Zendar Demo Issue 
right, from what little i can gather from googling, i type playdemo [name of map] then hit enter.

i have tried dropping the extracted demo file into:

1) quake directory
2) id1 directory
3) ad directory

so far nothing.

the only thing i can think of is that the demo file is only compatible with the original horde of zendar mod, but somehow not with the version included with the arcane dimensions pack?

i've been wanting to try out MaxED's simple quake launcher, so i will try the original mod and the demo file before clocking some zee's tonight.

if i don't manage that in the meantime, hopefully someone can put me straight! 
Nah :( 
MaxED's launcer works like a charm, i'm glad to say!

booted up the original horde of zendar mod no problems, bit the following command seems wrong.

playdemo zendarnightmareisforpussies 
No Worries! 
a bit of a schoolboy eror on my behalf.

sorted now. 
 
That demo from http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60985&start=67&end=67#67 is for the original release of the map (not AD):
http://www.simonoc.com/files/maps/sp/zendar1d.zip

I just extracted that, and put the .dem into my zendar1d folder, and it plays with playdemo zendarnightmareisforpussies 
No Playthrough Right Now 
https://www.twitch.tv/megmn

But probably at some later point! 
@ Ericw 
yeah, i figured :) 
10 Out Of 10 Secrets In Horde Of Zendar! 
i can retire happy now :)

colour me sozzled! 
@Lo Frag Traff 
Umm... try 100% secrets on Forgotten Sepulcher now... I double-dog-dare ya! 
@dumptruck_ds 
So cruel :-P 
Ad_e2m2 Demo 
skill 3 demo for updated version of ad_e2m2

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CFFpwr12GnuU-XpAatCcRE9Yz7rPe0m4/view?usp=sharing

one of the greatest remakes ever. a huge kudos to sock

96/96 kills
9 out of 10 secrets found 
A Note To Others 
Spy's demos are pretty entertaining if you haven't caught them I highly recommend a view. Haven't watched this one but will do once everyone in RL stops bugging me. 
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