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What Is Wrong With Quake Mapping In 2017?
FrikaC once supplied information to refute some of my idealism about the works of Quake. He said that the greatest Quake works were a means to an end ...

1) Mods like Navy Seals by Gooseman. He was fleshing out his ideas --- Gooseman created Half-Life Counter-Strike, the most popular game of all-time

2) Many mod authors -- like the outstanding Starship map by Neil Manke -- were to pad resume items and proof of talent for a career. Neil Manke went on to do numerous commercial works. (Is Neil Manke dead?)

3) In 2005, Nexuiz came out. The DarkPlaces-base mod that changed everything regarding open source and was previewed across the country at GameStop stores. The goal was to prep DarkPlaces for greater things.

The short version -- many of the greatest works of Quake were done for resumes, proof of concepts or because at the time the Quake engine worked as a great prototype for something greater.

Is this the wrong perspective? You decide!

A proper reply must ...

1) take into account the career aspirations of early Quake mappers or ...
2) the early relevance of the Quake engine to the games industry or ...
3) Demonstrate that a monster count of 79 or less is most suitable for a level, whereas a count of 87 demands too much of the player to retain attention and interest ... or ...
4) say "fuck it" to the idea of someone dictating the definition of what a "proper reply" is.

If you think your post meets any of the above 7 criteria items, please post your thoughts below!
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yeah i was going to say, the title says "2017" but all the examples are from over 10 years ago. 
 
and in 10 years if quake mapping isn't dead somebody will resurrect this thread and shitpost about it too. 
I'm Sure It Has Another 10 Years In It 
 
@Shambler 
Nothing wrong with a thought-provoking conversation. --- Some replies to these kinds of topics will go negative -- that's fine! and expected ..

... anyone can do them, but they don't bring thinking to the table.

Lack of Progression/Building to conclusion

There are few maps or sets of maps these days that build towards a conclusion. Intermission teleporters that transition to the next level were used as a reward or checkpoint.

Lack of a customized experience

Also a lack of specific maps bringing a new experience to the table.

1) Koohoo had a green Chthon
2) Lunsp1 had red mega enforcers
3) One Upon Atrocity had a dragon as the final boss, and fire shamblers
4) ARWOP had hell dogs
5) Marcher Fortress had spiders.
6) Cyberdemons in Event Horizon 
 
#48 
Good job on not including Quoth, Rubicon 2, and AD, aka the mods that have been consistently helped mappers supply new content for the past decade.

Or is this another roundabout way of trying to educate us plebeians about how everything is irrelevant, and RMQ was the savior of Q1? 
@otp 
You've never made a map using any of those.

You've made 2 maps ever, one of them of was a total boxmap. The other one was quite a bit better.

If you don't mind, I would prefer to only chatter with people with talent and ability or at least bringing critical thought to the table. 
Baker. 
I would prefer that only people who can write a coherent thread with proper arguments post on func, but unfortunately you're still around. 
Wow 
 
Baker 
Theres a proper version of that page here -
http://isoterra.co.uk/quake/tut1/

I like the tutorial, it still has value IMO. 
Fifth 
Bookmarked, great info. 
 
You've never made a map using any of those.

Right, this completely negates the existence of those mods. Clearly modified dogs from a Tronyn episode are more important than what AD does to the mapper backend.

You've made 2 maps ever

That's 200% more mappage than you have done. Unless you want that huge black box with 500 exits to other people's map to count as a map of your own?

talent and ability or at least bringing critical thought to the table.

I refer you to the numerous Q1SPs released that I have contributed to by the way of QA. Unless providing feedback to content creators does not require critical thought???

http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60584
https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/honey.html
https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/dom3m1.html
https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/dm7rmx.html
https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/apsp3.html
https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/zendar1d.html
https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/func_mapjam2.html
https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/rrp.html

"OTP provides some very good playtesting, to quite a few different mappers - I tend to incorporate more than half of what he suggests."

Just take the fucking loss and shut up. Now that Shambler has pointed out all the ways in which this thread was ridiculous, you're doubling down on the nonsense and utter lack of coherence or any internal logic. 
 
Remake Quake 
Some of the things in Remake Quake have become standardized staples in Quake 1 mapping:

1) BSP2
2) Alpha textures
3) ericw recently added true rotation to the map compiler

@otp - I don't mind being trolled, I'm a free speech advocate. Trolling is part of free speech. Free speech is important. 
Hey I Thought The Hell Dogs Were A Cool Idea Of PM's 
I also liked the psycho zombies that Necros made in Altar of Storms; it's true that we are all familiar with the attacks of the basic monsters so making them harder to deal with keeps the game challenging.

I haven't even PLAYED AD yet (I know, I know; I'm years behind on playing new maps and am hoping to write some reviews one day) but I'm excited to see what features it has. I've been too busy to do much of anything so it doesn't really matter that PM is MIA, but one of the problems I've always had is getting modding stuff done as I'm only a mapper and not a modder. I'd really like to see more map objects in Quake, Heretic II and Hexen II have a ton of models that could be ported, I don't think I've ever seen the Ballista from Hexen II in a Quake map, but that would be badass.

I hope that was on topic, I don't think the thread was a bad idea or a good excuse to flame each other; I mean it successfully got a conversation going anyway.

P.S. I wish func had a Heretic or Hexen icon. 
@fifth 
Thank is a far better version. 
@otp - A Thoughtful Reply 
I mean this in the kindest way possible -- this is the internet, there are lot of people that enjoy trolling, sarcasm and so forth.

When are being funny, is about the only time it matters -- and a few times a year, you do funny stuff :)

But when you are doing silly ad-hominems, are people really listening? Probably no.

Everyone has a keyboard. It's the internet! 
 
To discredit OTPs input on this in regards to his supposed lack of content is...pure ignorance.

I knew that when I needed beta testing, OTP would be down to do it and give unbiased, unabashed criticisms.

I knew this because looking through readmes and forum posts...it was evident he was favored in this regard.

You, Baker, as someone who has no released maps, are welcome to criticize the content others create. Up until the point to discredit the opinions of someone who HAS created content and play/beta tests...a LOT of maps.

Someone create a script that goes through all the quaddicted maps, find the ones with readmes, and see how often OTPs mentioned. 
Lame Thread Renaming Is Lame 
Are your panties really bunched up that hard, ffs. 
Words Are Hard! 
btw, lame was not meant to be a descriptor of thread, it's just my crap title writing :( 
Renamed Thread Back 
 
 
There's no denying that OTP has done good work for the community, but he has also engaged in more than his fair share of seriously toxic behaviour. Adding to that, he has a particularly bad case of wasps-in-his-knickers concerning anything to do with RMQ.

It's something of a toss-up whether his positive contributions outweigh his negative. 
Wasps In His Knickers? 
You're the one breaking out in hives and dry heaving when somebody as much as whispers the word "Quoth" in a 100 mile radius around you. Projecting much? 1234

If we're talking about contributions, may I point out that the top 3 things you will be remembered for will be:

1. A tool that allows people to make everybody's maps look like this,

http://68.media.tumblr.com/406a135019eaee7e49fadc830387edd2/tumblr_o6cnm35PWt1u34e3ko2_1280.png
http://68.media.tumblr.com/342c08527d0d2728c8d2cc5f739ab055/tumblr_o6cnm35PWt1u34e3ko1_1280.png
http://68.media.tumblr.com/44443189f86abfc7a4855bc83af728dd/tumblr_o6cnl5jPAW1u34e3ko1_1280.png

2. A fork of FitzQuake that adds 1999-era "improvements" while also forcing permanent model interpolation on the player,

3. ...uhh... I'm hearing crickets...???? 
 
I've figured it out. OTP is Sean Spicer 
 
A fork of FitzQuake that adds 1999-era "improvements" while also forcing permanent model interpolation on the player

Really, you do need to stop making things up.

Since you're in the mood to go through previous posts, I suggest that you might take the time to go through your own and pull out all the ones where you've made something up and used it as a platform to launch an attack from.

Oh yes, the knicker-wasps are strong with this one. 
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