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Can We Future-proof Quake?
I'm not the only one on func who plays Quake at a 144hz refresh rate. We can debate all day whether that's necessary but that's my thing. I see a big difference both on the desktop and in games at 144. But designing my own maps and now with jam9 I am experiencing issues that basically break the game.

In Breezeep's map Mensis Keep, if you watch my demos I take an elevator up and hit an invisible barrier multiple times. I didn't immediately realize what was going on but it was the physics wigging out and it was nearly game breaking for me. I figured out the less I moved on the elevator the more luck I had avoiding the problem. I had to rework a significant set piece in a WIP as it was a fast moving train that kept gibbing me randomly. Only later did I realize this was due to having HOST_MAXFPS set higher than 72.

It's my opinion that we're going to see more and more of this as time wears on. The 1/2 dozen or so younger gamers I know (thanks to my teenaged kids) all want or have 120hz monitors or above.

I also want to note how old and problematic Wally and TexMex are. They work but how long will it be before they are obsolete?

I think it's time we start the discussion of how to future-proof Quake source ports.
 
There's plans from Baker to de-couple the physics from the refresh rate so that these weird glitches don't happen.
Not sure when he's planning on doing this but it will probably take some time before it happens.
I've personally stopped playing at 144hz since I was made aware of the bug and I am honestly used to 72fps again. I'll bump it back up when it's fixed. 
Don't Make Me Go Back! 
It breaks my heart I re-worked a kick-ass part of a map because I was so ill-informed about this but I didn't want to release something that would randomly kill players. I hope Baker can get this to work. 
I Know Nothing 
The usual engine caps framerates above 72.
Result is you get damage from being elevated by a plat/door. (Dont ask why, thats above the topic for now)
Try FTE-Quake from spike. It does support "pixelvision" and all the other features we love. Plus a ton of functions you'll never see with QS or FitzMarkV or the like.

Never use DP ever.

Thats my best bet for a future engine.

vQuake is another option to try, idk if it supports the latest AD maps.
But its written for the new Vulkan (API), which should get more attention in the future. Or not. 
 
It is an annoying issue isn't it?

FTEQW and DarkPlaces are completely immune to this issue.

There is about nothing FTE can't do and it is very faithful. 
@baker And @knows A Bit 
Thank gents. I was going to check out vkQuake but it's a fork of QS so may have the same issue. But as for as the future-proofing it's a great step. 
It Already Is ! 
 
vkQuake is going to have the same issues.

It is just a different rendering pipeline, which has nothing to do with any of this.

It's a physics/clock issue. 
 
related insideqc threads:
Is vid_vsync wrong?
Framerate-independent physics

One thing to note is that, if you implement it by locking the server framerate at 72fps, and then lerping between the last 2 server frames to generate the high fps client's view, this adds ~14ms of lag to the whole game. (at the moment when a new frame arrives from the server, you're going to be rendering the last frame. correct me if that is wrong)

I also want to note how old and problematic Wally and TexMex are. They work but how long will it be before they are obsolete?
This is true, the wad format is really simple though. though it is surprising there is no "take all images in the current directory and pack them into a .wad" tool already? 
Gibberish And A Rant 
with opengl, you can change the vsync interval so that it vsyncs every other frame, that would mean that they'd scale to decent monitors even without fixing the underlying physics (which also means avoiding breaking the 'wait' console command).
that said, vsync has its own lag, and in my experience its smoother to use cl_maxfps or whatever instead of vsync as implemented by nvidia's opengl driver (d3d or single-threaded vulkan don't have the smoothness issue, though fte seems to be able to acquire about 10% more backbuffers than it should when device queue stuff is offloaded to a worker thread).
@ericw, what you're forgetting is that thanks to interpolation, many things in the game are already up to 100ms behind. more video frames means it'll actually be closer to current.

Regarding wads, what I want to see is editors/qbsps that just directly use pcx/tga/png (with some vague shader-like scripts to provide stuff like phong angles and rescaling[so engines could directly use the same high-res textures]. I'm not saying that engines should need to read these scripts, just that I think it would be a nicer way to get per-surface stuff than creating entire func_details for a single face).
the problem with that is politics, of course. 
@Spike 
re: politics

Much the way the ISO works couldn't we get all the brightest, active minds in the Quake source port scene to "meet" and agree to standards moving forward? Perhaps a "lowest common denominator" standard engine architecture could be agreed upon and followed by all active developers and then engines could diverge off as long as they have these features available to the end user? 
 
couldn't we get all the brightest, active minds in the Quake source port scene to "meet" and agree to standards moving forward?

This has been tried and failed so many times that it's long since gone beyond being funny and is now orbiting a black planet fuelled by the crushed hopes and dreams of a small child.

We tried it, it didn't work, because everybody has their own ideas and sooner or later (and most likely sooner) it just collapses.

Then we tried it again and it failed again. Repeat to fade.

That's classic design-by-committee.

What does work is when one person pushes something forward in a way that's easy for others to pick up. That's how we got LIT files, it's how we got standardized fog, it's how we got BSP2. 
 
I don't know how it compares to Wally and TexMex, but in 2006 FrikaC made FImg, http://www.insideqc.com/frikbot/fimg/fimg_v02.zip

You can read the initial thread here,
http://forums.insideqc.com/viewtopic.php?p=2916

That thread has old links on it to inside3d which is no longer up. 
Speaking Of WADs... 
SLADE already can open Quake WADs and other game formats, sadly it can't save Quake WAD back. At the moment you can export textures to png, remap palette etc.

Supported Data Formats

It would be awesome if some smart dude could add Quake WAD save option.
SLADE has many useful tools, and opens many other formats, so it would be super easy to convert textures from other games.
Of course it has many tools we don't need, like Doom Editor, but Texture management is very good. 
@kreathor - That's Silly 
That is actively developed with updates this month.

Ask the author. Offer to beta test and offer up a couple of other beta tests plus volunteer to spread the news around Quake sites including mentioning it.

If you actually want that, that is the proper way to do it. 
 
Ok, good point. 
 
Asked and this is the answer:

it's probably possible I guess
just not a priority as SLADE is primarily a doom engine editor


...I expected this answer ;)
"Yeah it's possible but I don't have time for this shit."

Welp I'm not surprised, guy is doing tool for Doom, so he doesn't care about Quake. 
Futerproofing 
I play Quake 2 at 120 fps and have no issues so far.

I am aware of the physics limitations meaning I can jump through lasers if my speed is high enough (only takes a few strafejumps in rapid succession), but this hasn't had any other gamebreaking issues for me so far. One really odd thing that happened was that I managed to get stuck in the roof of lab above the acid pit when I managed to slide off and decided to quad boost myself out of the acid again. It's the only time it's happened, though. I had to noclip my way out. I wish I had recorded it but every time I reload the map the .dm2-recording gets rewritten...

I think the best way to futerproof the Quakes is to not stop playing them. :3 
 
A hamburger isn't really made out of ham.

Quake 2 isn't really made out of ... 
 
Welp I'm not surprised, guy is doing tool for Doom, so he doesn't care about Quake.

SLADE is GPL 2 so if you can convince anybody else that (1) it's a good tool to use, and (2) it's a worthwhile change, they can freely make the change themselves, in either a forked version of it or to contribute back to the original. 
@Quakeulf 
We're all aware of your love for Quake 2 and I certainly want you to feel welcome here. But unlike reddit and QuakeOne, when a specific post refers to Quake - we are only talking about the original Quake. Not the "Quakes."

No harm done but just a heads up if you feel some hostility here and there. IMO it's good form to keep the two games separated by specific posts. 
Quake 2 Is Shit 10 Fps Game 
 
Dont Quake3 Its Shit And No Open Arena Its Femnazi Cancer 
 
 
Hrmm. Weird, I've been playing Quake (using Quakespasm of course) for the longest time with 144hz and host_maxfps set to 144. I haven't noticed any issues. I believe I have seen weird glitches and shit with unlimited FPS though.

I'll have to look at the demo and see if I can recreate the issue sometime this weekend. 
@butane 
It's kinda far into the demo but you can't miss it. It's on the first big indoor lift (I think.) At the top of the lift are floating bookshelves. watch out for the Ogre's on either side of the lift exit. 
@dumptruck_ds 
A glitch at 144 fps isn't surprising or unexpected.

I wouldn't worry about what a non-engine developer says because their entire body of feedback chain is own experience and awareness.

An engine developer has gotten feedback from hundreds and tends to also keep an eye on feedback other engines receive as well.

To the best of my knowledge the most sentitive standard Quake map is E3M3 and multiple players have said you can easily miss the trigger in the beginning of the map with a higher fps cap. 
FTE-Quake 
Tried this. Impressive overall but the audio is super annoying for me compared to QS. It sounds too crisp and artifact-y. I'll have to keep experimenting to get it right. I didn't know it was updated so regularly. 
#26 
try disabling OpenAL (ie: pick a dsound device in the menus), unfortunately its enabled by default. 
FTE-Quake 
I loaded up jam9 in a recent build of FTE-Quake (July?) and there were missing skyboxes and other weird issues. Most prominently in Ionous' map but others as well.

I figured out the sound issue. I am so used to 11k audio when the sample rate is raised it sounds too crispy for my taste. There are quite a few things I do like about FTE - I will keep fiddling but shouldn't skyboxes and the like "just work" out of the box? 
 
Can't wait for the "fte is too advanced for your pleb maps" response from Spike. 
Shouldnt You Be At Your Nazi Rally Right Now 
 
Finger My Auschwitz 
 
 
@dumptruck_ds
jam9_ionous's skybox works fine for me - but only if I actually remember to use the -quoth argument/gamedir.
jam9_otp is a pleb map that specifies a skybox which isn't valid. FTE responds by giving a fallback skybox (ask for one, get one - even if the textures arn't installed).
FTE is too advanced for such pleb maps... :P

I'll see what I can do about disabling skybox forcing on missing textures, it'll probably hurt load times though :(
/me ignores otp's intro area on account of its zfighting in other engines also. 
 
So you're saying it's impossible in FTE for the mapper to willingly switch from a static skybox to the default scrolling skybox and FTE will instead impose its own "solution".

Congratulations, I don't think even DarkPlaces is this retarded. 
#33 
My stance is that if you do something retarded like using a skybox that doesn't exist then you shouldn't be surprised when you get a retarded response.

In other news:
save skybreaker; load skybreaker
and the sky is indeed broken.
Dynamically switching skyboxes is flawed regardless of engine - at least FTE provides the possibility of custom shaders which avoids the whole saved game/closed-source mod issue.
Whereas at best QS gives error messages and saved games with the wrong skies, but for some reason you're okay with those retarded things. :( 
Huh? 
Loathe as I am to agree with OTP, I always thought the expected behaviour was loadsky with an invalid name would drop you back to the old style scrolling sky. 
MH 
I direct you to post #31. 
 
Well with Quake 2 any decent client nowadays separates physics and rendering framerate since Quakeulf mentioned it. Quakeworld client like EZquake are the same as far as I know and you just need Quakespasm to do the same. 
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