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Modern Retro Shooters / Quake Spiritual Successors
Wonder If A Specific Retro-shooter Thread Is Warranted?
#10166 posted by Shambler [92.29.26.135] on 2017/08/27 11:32:00


It is! Separate thread because there's a lot of these sort of games, the ethos of them is particularly relevant to this board, and it's inhabitants seem to have some good varying opinions on the matter.

Quake as the eptiome as 90s action FPS:

Very direct control and physics
Simple streamlined gameplay
Brutal visceral and gory
Weird fantasy / gothic / industrial theme
Grungy, coherent graphics
Cool map designs / architecture (for the time)
Varied but consistent bestiary
Etc
(many of the above adhered to and greatly enhanced by subsequent custom content)

We all like these aspects, we all like these aspects in other games, we all want to see more of those games, possibly combined with modern graphical styles (Quake Chumpions MAPS might be an example of how far this could go) and maybe very limited modern additions (crouching? an inventory? coherent story? - but nothing that gets in the way of solid action). We perhaps want the next Quake / 90s action FPS spiritual successor...

Modern Retro Shooters:

...and lo, there's a neverending stream of modern retro games many of which are unabashedly marketting themselves as 90s action FPS spiritual successors and particularly highlighting speed, direct control, simple action, limitless violence. Do they have what it takes to hit that mark though??

Strafe
http://store.steampowered.com/app/442780/STRAFE_Millennium_Edition/

Amid Evil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo7X7b6pPng

Dusk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsu9uDMlIMM

Hellbound
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyabhVn1SfQ

Apocryph
http://store.steampowered.com/app/596240/Apocryph_an_oldschool_shooter/

Ion Maiden
https://twitter.com/voidpnt

Neverdead
http://store.steampowered.com/app/681000/NEVRDEAD/

Gorescript
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpZ1Wa0OIoQ

Intrude
https://bagogames.com/intrude-review/

Hermodr
http://store.steampowered.com/app/490360/Hermodr/

Devil Daggers
http://store.steampowered.com/app/422970/Devil_Daggers/

Gibhard
http://www.gibhard.com

Revulsion
http://store.steampowered.com/app/719180/Revulsion/

Witchfire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zqjNkdXT94

PLUS MANY MORE LINKED IN THE THREAD BELOW....

Without wanting to opine too much, there seems to be a general trend of possibly not hitting the mark despite some attempts to do so, with a huge variety in how much potential those attempts show, as well as how close these games are to realising the overall harmonious game quality of a typical best 90s action FPS. I.e. Some games seem to do some aspects right, but don't seem to get all the aspects in balance and appealing together.

Discuss....
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@mankrip 
ok, now i like it XD 
#161 
I recommend giving Ion Maiden a spin. I've been playing it this morning and thoroughly enjoying. 
 
Ion Maiden looks awesome!

A female version of Duke Nukem...

I like it =D 
 
The Ion Maiden demo is pretty much unplayable on my PC. Severe frame rate drops in the starting area just by turning the camera. The starting area is really small so it's baffling to me how bad performance is. 
 
Gggmanlives made a review of Ion Maiden's demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp7FvJcoINE 
#168 Beyond Pathetic And Will Always Get Censored. 
 
GGMan Review. 
I like how he talks about it being good for a "20 year old" engine that's been updated. 20 years old would be 98 i.e. Unreal, I would be happy to see how this looked on an updated Unreal engine......

Still if you're into that sort of thing i.e. pixels and sprites.....it does look like it does a much better job than almost all the other games. 
Yup. 
Dunno about the game in full, but from what I see, this does actually fit and execute the modern retro shooter as well as it should. I imagine if you're a Duke / ROTT / Blood fan then this is bang on. It has theme, coherence, purpose, proper level design etc. As I say it's not my bag for the style/GFX but one could consider it a tentative success.... 
Ion Maiden Feels Bad. 
Call me crazy but I believe smooth and responsive player/mouse movement should be the first priority of any FPS developer.

Great design and art just go to waste when the game feels bad to play. Shame.

Ion Maiden is ALMOST there, but the performance isn't even close to where it should be. Explosions see frames below 50 on a machine that never drops below 90 during the most demanding scenes of DOOM 2016. (1440p) Even when the game is maintaining 144 fps it stutters constantly. Vsync and framecaps don't eliminate it. Hopefully we see some real fixes from the devs soon. Build engine man...

When free and open source projects like GZDoom and QuakeSpasm have me playing DOOM and Quake (originally limited to 35 and 72 fps respectively) flawlessly at whatever framerate I want with super smooth and responsive gameplay, I find myself less than impressed with commercial products like the Turok remasters (limited to 60 fps) and Ion Maiden (hella janky overall). Eh... 
 
Ion Maiden is ALMOST there, but the performance isn't even close to where it should be. Explosions see frames below 50 on a machine that never drops below 90 during the most demanding scenes of DOOM 2016. (1440p)

Judging from the screenshots, this game uses a software renderer. Color blending is one of the slowest things in any software renderer. 
@mankrip 
You can switch between software and OpenGL. It's literally EDuke32.

Both feel bad. Them boys got work to do. <3 
 
Thumbs up to Ion Maiden from what i've seen in that video. Can't comment on shitty performance but weapons look great, enemies look great. Environments look varied and interesting for that Duke urban setting.

I like the wolf3d style start screen and the female protagonist - nice flip of the not-funny-enough-to-be-ironic misogynist vibes of Duke. Got a Joanna (perfect) Dark vibe from it.

Don't particularly see the need for it to be on the Build engine if it's going to fuck up performance this bad. The technical limitations may have contributed to how authentic it feels however! 
 
Does it run bad even without the Polymer option? Try turning that off if you can, that thing runs bad everywhere.

I don't own the game so I'm just assuming you can turn it off seeing as its based on EDuke32. 
EPuke32 
It ain't got no poly-woly, which means it also has no FOV options..!

I cap the frames at 141, Gsync stays active and that (mostly) smooths out the stutter. I recommend capping 3 or so frames below your monitor's refresh rate with r_maxfps.

This doesn't fix the remarkably janky movement and mouselook though. The game simply doesn't feel good to play. Hmm... 
 
You are suffering some bug/driver issue
Runs perfect here and this is not a hot shit system 
 
I don't have the game, but i saw a lot of let's plays on youtube and the game runs fast and smooth. I didn't see any problems with performance :/ 
 
I've bought Ion Maiden yesterday. The GL renderer is unplayable, and the software renderer is a bit slow at times but still runs as good as a 90s game in a 90s machine. 
 
There's a lot of folks talking about issues with performance and mouse input. I'ma wait for a bit to see if stuff gets ironed out. 
Come On Dude. 
IONed out at least ;) 
 
d'oh 
HERE'S A QUOTE FROM AN ION MAIDEN DEV 
On the janky mouse movement...

"It's a limitation of the Build engine; there are only 2048 possible values for the player camera's yaw and only around 400 possible values for looking up and down.

However, I happen to be both the director of this game and the original author of EDuke32. I have a potential solution in mind that I think will allow us to address this, at least in OpenGL, without rewriting a ton of engine code.

Assuming my idea works out, we are planning on releasing a patch including this fix sometime in the next couple weeks. I don't care for the notchy aiming myself... I play a lot of Rainbow 6 and the difference is night and day.

But, we will improve things." -terminx

To the folks insisting that game footage looks "fast and smooth" or that it runs fine on their machine: A sub 60 framerate on capable hardware isn't the issue.

I run at a nearly constant 144. But that can dip into the 50s momentarily when the engine is buckling under effect heavy sequences. If the idea is to optimize an old engine for modern hardware, THEN OPTIMIZE IT FOR MODERN HARDWARE. I shouldn't be seeing lower lows than DOOM 2016 in Ion Maiden.

The performance issues are secondary to the mouse issue anyway. The "notchy" movement is what's really ruining the experience. I hope the fix works because I really want to enjoy and recommend this game. 
Should Have Used Unity 
 
 
Fucking diva's. Whats with the animosity to devs ? Its an early access.
There is obv a usual bullshit driver issue along the way. OpenGL renderer unplayable ? butterfucking smooth here 0 slowdown ever, on a fucking sub 100€ radeon R7 360... o_O ? 
 
Killes man... how long have you been doing this PC gaming thing? You understand a game can have issues on people's systems even if yours happens to work ok right?

Discussing problems is not "animosity". (Aside from #186 which I assume is a joke.) 
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