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Modern Retro Shooters / Quake Spiritual Successors
Wonder If A Specific Retro-shooter Thread Is Warranted?
#10166 posted by Shambler [92.29.26.135] on 2017/08/27 11:32:00


It is! Separate thread because there's a lot of these sort of games, the ethos of them is particularly relevant to this board, and it's inhabitants seem to have some good varying opinions on the matter.

Quake as the eptiome as 90s action FPS:

Very direct control and physics
Simple streamlined gameplay
Brutal visceral and gory
Weird fantasy / gothic / industrial theme
Grungy, coherent graphics
Cool map designs / architecture (for the time)
Varied but consistent bestiary
Etc
(many of the above adhered to and greatly enhanced by subsequent custom content)

We all like these aspects, we all like these aspects in other games, we all want to see more of those games, possibly combined with modern graphical styles (Quake Chumpions MAPS might be an example of how far this could go) and maybe very limited modern additions (crouching? an inventory? coherent story? - but nothing that gets in the way of solid action). We perhaps want the next Quake / 90s action FPS spiritual successor...

Modern Retro Shooters:

...and lo, there's a neverending stream of modern retro games many of which are unabashedly marketting themselves as 90s action FPS spiritual successors and particularly highlighting speed, direct control, simple action, limitless violence. Do they have what it takes to hit that mark though??

Strafe
http://store.steampowered.com/app/442780/STRAFE_Millennium_Edition/

Amid Evil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo7X7b6pPng

Dusk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsu9uDMlIMM

Hellbound
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyabhVn1SfQ

Apocryph
http://store.steampowered.com/app/596240/Apocryph_an_oldschool_shooter/

Ion Maiden
https://twitter.com/voidpnt

Neverdead
http://store.steampowered.com/app/681000/NEVRDEAD/

Gorescript
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpZ1Wa0OIoQ

Intrude
https://bagogames.com/intrude-review/

Hermodr
http://store.steampowered.com/app/490360/Hermodr/

Devil Daggers
http://store.steampowered.com/app/422970/Devil_Daggers/

Gibhard
http://www.gibhard.com

Revulsion
http://store.steampowered.com/app/719180/Revulsion/

Witchfire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zqjNkdXT94

PLUS MANY MORE LINKED IN THE THREAD BELOW....

Without wanting to opine too much, there seems to be a general trend of possibly not hitting the mark despite some attempts to do so, with a huge variety in how much potential those attempts show, as well as how close these games are to realising the overall harmonious game quality of a typical best 90s action FPS. I.e. Some games seem to do some aspects right, but don't seem to get all the aspects in balance and appealing together.

Discuss....
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I don't have the game, but i saw a lot of let's plays on youtube and the game runs fast and smooth. I didn't see any problems with performance :/ 
 
I've bought Ion Maiden yesterday. The GL renderer is unplayable, and the software renderer is a bit slow at times but still runs as good as a 90s game in a 90s machine. 
 
There's a lot of folks talking about issues with performance and mouse input. I'ma wait for a bit to see if stuff gets ironed out. 
Come On Dude. 
IONed out at least ;) 
 
d'oh 
HERE'S A QUOTE FROM AN ION MAIDEN DEV 
On the janky mouse movement...

"It's a limitation of the Build engine; there are only 2048 possible values for the player camera's yaw and only around 400 possible values for looking up and down.

However, I happen to be both the director of this game and the original author of EDuke32. I have a potential solution in mind that I think will allow us to address this, at least in OpenGL, without rewriting a ton of engine code.

Assuming my idea works out, we are planning on releasing a patch including this fix sometime in the next couple weeks. I don't care for the notchy aiming myself... I play a lot of Rainbow 6 and the difference is night and day.

But, we will improve things." -terminx

To the folks insisting that game footage looks "fast and smooth" or that it runs fine on their machine: A sub 60 framerate on capable hardware isn't the issue.

I run at a nearly constant 144. But that can dip into the 50s momentarily when the engine is buckling under effect heavy sequences. If the idea is to optimize an old engine for modern hardware, THEN OPTIMIZE IT FOR MODERN HARDWARE. I shouldn't be seeing lower lows than DOOM 2016 in Ion Maiden.

The performance issues are secondary to the mouse issue anyway. The "notchy" movement is what's really ruining the experience. I hope the fix works because I really want to enjoy and recommend this game. 
Should Have Used Unity 
 
 
Fucking diva's. Whats with the animosity to devs ? Its an early access.
There is obv a usual bullshit driver issue along the way. OpenGL renderer unplayable ? butterfucking smooth here 0 slowdown ever, on a fucking sub 100€ radeon R7 360... o_O ? 
 
Killes man... how long have you been doing this PC gaming thing? You understand a game can have issues on people's systems even if yours happens to work ok right?

Discussing problems is not "animosity". (Aside from #186 which I assume is a joke.) 
What's Wrong With Unity? 
Other than a constant stream of amateur "games" dragging Unity's name through the mud by being poorly optimized.

Or having a terrible outdated garbage collector.

Or very little out of the box support for first person shooters.

Or requiring DIY decals.

Or requiring DIY sprites (other than particle effects).

Or having memory leak problems.

Or having terrible support for mods. 
Amid Evil Bullshit DMSP Arena Mode Confirmed. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJcMKd6prBY

Looks appallingly bland in every way imaginable. The only thing I can tolerate in this video is the outside lighting which is nice with the fog. The full red screen when you take any damage is a particularly bad touch in addition to the semi-naff weapons, stupid cartoon items, boring badly-themed monsters, apparent lack of any AI, shitty map, shitty textures and lighting etc etc. 
#190 
I like how the pickup items are low-framerate pixelly sprites, and then the weapon models look like they could be in Skyrim.

:qdumb: 
 
"Well you see what we were going for was to simulate one of those classic FPS games with a long and drama-filled development history, where some bits were made in 1995 and other bits were made in 2005" 
Lol Chill 
AMID EVIL is gorgeous, feels incredibly smooth to play, and provides a better challenge than other recent "old-school" shooters on it's "Evil" difficulty.

Videos don't do AMID EVIL justice. It's a whacked out mix of sprites, unfiltered textures, and shiny UE4 gloss. In motion, it works. It's a crisp and colorful thing. Limited video bitrate muddies that.

I completely understand why one would argue that the AEsthetic is confused, so don't bother. Just TRUST ME.

Release will see 7 episodes, each with 3 exploration levels and a boss level. Every episode has it's own theme and enemies. 3 episodes and an endless map will be available next week.

I don't like Serious Sam-style shooters or wave-based endless modes. This isn't that. AE's levels are big and beautiful. The wave mode in the video is an extra to the main campaign. For what it's worth, I found AMID EVIL's wave mode to be more fun than others I've played. The gameplay in that video is also pretty bad...

We'll always have DOOM and Quake, and the well of quality mapsets isn't drying up anytime soon. But DANG guys, you can't be salty about every new kid on the block. There is a difference between having sophisticated taste and being a self-defeating elitist sperglord.

FPS fans who lump the likes of DUSK, AMID EVIL (and what the heck, DOOM 2016 too) in with the likes of STRAFE, Apocryph, or Hellbound have my pity. (If you're excited for Apocryph or Hellbound... um, lol?) You may have a deeper understanding of good FPS design than the average Joe, but your judgement lacks a necessary granularity.

Also, Kinn, the weapon "models" are sprites babe. ;) 
 
I hadn't realized that Amid Weevil is published by the same people as Dusk. It's like two schlubby doses of marketing for the price of one. 
... 
Videos don't do AMID EVIL justice. It's a whacked out mix of sprites, unfiltered textures, and shiny UE4 gloss. 
Hmm 
Would consider doing a legit Heretic episode, followed by a legit Hexen episode, followed by a legit Hexen 2 ... actually scratch that last one 
Amid Evil 
Ach Me Eyes! It Burns! 
 
#193 Thank You For Your Insights. 
Videos don't do AMID EVIL justice. It's a whacked out mix of sprites, unfiltered textures, and shiny UE4 gloss.

No offense to your judgement, but the very reasons you have given for it looking "gorgeous", are mostly the same reasons - with the addition of the ass-awful saturated lighting - that it still looks like shit on a stick, where the stick is also made of shit.

Incidentally I just rewatched Apocryph inspired by your post and whilst it does look fairly dung - I am assuming it is a mere engine test, the lighting, textures, monsters, and theme harmony already look 2000% better than Amid Evil.

I will concede that Amid Evil does look functionally fine as an old skool shooter (apart from the appalling screenflash on damage which should never even be an option let alone default), but the lack of any graphical harmony is a NOPE from me. 
Art Consistency 
Is amid evils biggest problem tbh. But this can be fixed a lot easier than gameplay (which looks ok imo) 
Art Consistency 
Is amid evils biggest problem tbh. But this can be fixed a lot easier than gameplay (which looks ok imo) 
Double Posting 
Is FifthHeffalump#s biggest problem tbh. But he's beyond fixing (imo) 
Yikes 
No offense to your judgement, but the very reasons you have given for it looking "gorgeous", are mostly the same reasons - with the addition of the ass-awful saturated lighting - that it still looks like shit on a stick, where the stick is also made of shit.

You left out the part where I said "In motion, it works. It's a crisp and colorful thing. Limited video bitrate muddies that." That's the important bit. The idea being - it sounds unlikely, but when playing, these seemingly disparate parts come together nicely.

AMID EVIL is purposefully chaotic in it's use of color, and it works. It won't be everyone's jam. I love it. It's something else. It's ugly in the best way.

I will concede that Amid Evil does look functionally fine as an old skool shooter (apart from the appalling screenflash on damage which should never even be an option let alone default), but the lack of any graphical harmony is a NOPE from me.

The flashing is less obnoxious when playing versus watching. But I agree, it should be optional.

https://i.imgur.com/1yRosFa.jpg
wow

Ye boi. When I first saw that in-game, I thought something was rendering incorrectly. Turns out it's just an inelegant and ugly way to occlude enemy spawns.

Incidentally I just rewatched Apocryph inspired by your post and whilst it does look fairly dung - I am assuming it is a mere engine test, the lighting, textures, monsters, and theme harmony already look 2000% better than Amid Evil.

Yeah all the parts harmoniously appear hideous all at once! :p

Seriously, it looks like an asset flip. I'm not saying it is, but it has that vibe - cheap and uninspired. Apocryph is trying so hard (and failing) to be dark and gritty with zero sense of irony. Of course maybe that's what you appreciate about it. There is a certain kind of honesty about how thoroughly uncool it is. Heck, it may even wind up a charming little piece of EuroJank. 
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