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Modern Retro Shooters / Quake Spiritual Successors
Wonder If A Specific Retro-shooter Thread Is Warranted?
#10166 posted by Shambler [92.29.26.135] on 2017/08/27 11:32:00


It is! Separate thread because there's a lot of these sort of games, the ethos of them is particularly relevant to this board, and it's inhabitants seem to have some good varying opinions on the matter.

Quake as the eptiome as 90s action FPS:

Very direct control and physics
Simple streamlined gameplay
Brutal visceral and gory
Weird fantasy / gothic / industrial theme
Grungy, coherent graphics
Cool map designs / architecture (for the time)
Varied but consistent bestiary
Etc
(many of the above adhered to and greatly enhanced by subsequent custom content)

We all like these aspects, we all like these aspects in other games, we all want to see more of those games, possibly combined with modern graphical styles (Quake Chumpions MAPS might be an example of how far this could go) and maybe very limited modern additions (crouching? an inventory? coherent story? - but nothing that gets in the way of solid action). We perhaps want the next Quake / 90s action FPS spiritual successor...

Modern Retro Shooters:

...and lo, there's a neverending stream of modern retro games many of which are unabashedly marketting themselves as 90s action FPS spiritual successors and particularly highlighting speed, direct control, simple action, limitless violence. Do they have what it takes to hit that mark though??

Strafe
http://store.steampowered.com/app/442780/STRAFE_Millennium_Edition/

Amid Evil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo7X7b6pPng

Dusk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsu9uDMlIMM

Hellbound
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyabhVn1SfQ

Apocryph
http://store.steampowered.com/app/596240/Apocryph_an_oldschool_shooter/

Ion Maiden
https://twitter.com/voidpnt

Neverdead
http://store.steampowered.com/app/681000/NEVRDEAD/

Gorescript
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpZ1Wa0OIoQ

Intrude
https://bagogames.com/intrude-review/

Hermodr
http://store.steampowered.com/app/490360/Hermodr/

Devil Daggers
http://store.steampowered.com/app/422970/Devil_Daggers/

Gibhard
http://www.gibhard.com

Without wanting to opine too much, there seems to be a general trend of possibly not hitting the mark despite some attempts to do so, with a huge variety in how much potential those attempts show, as well as how close these games are to realising the overall harmonious game quality of a typical best 90s action FPS. I.e. Some games seem to do some aspects right, but don't seem to get all the aspects in balance and appealing together.

Discuss....
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I Despise Headbob. 
Not least because it is completely stupid fake bullshit. In real life your mind / balance compensates for the headbob in your vision so when you're running it doesn't feel like you're bouncing around all over the fucking place - because hey 40,000 years of evolution have worked that out. Maybe in another 40,000 years devs will work out that something that is simultaneously unrealistic AND wrong AND detrimental shouldn't be in their games. 
Exactly! 
Basic rule of thumb: assume people have poor eyesight and don't need any help blurring things further either through motion, filtering, etc. Don't make it more of a chore to enjoy the game. 
 
That fucking FOV in Witchfire though X_X
The fuck is wrong with people 
Looks Like Console Standard 65 Fov 
We can hope they have an adjustment in the settings. It's a contentious enough issue that it should be standard in all PC/MAC/Linux versions of the game. I'm not too fond myself of anything above 80 or 85 depending on if it is an indoor or outdoor game but to each his own. 
 
That fucking FOV in Witchfire though X_X

Yeah, it's pretty terrible. Hopefully it's just for the teaser to get that cinematic feel. 
 
Its like having fucking glaucoma, I don't understand the attraction of claustrophobic tunnel vision, console OR pc, its fucking awfull no matter where.

Is it due to the limitations of controllers for FPS? then fucking find another / better way to play FPS from the couch ffs. 
FOV 
It's due to performance. Lower FOV = Higher Performance because you have less to draw on screen. Historically the consoles have been less performant than PC rigs.

There is also the "screen-is-like-looking-out-a-window" theory which says that people feel wierd if they can see more "out" their computer moniter than would be possible if it were a window. This is of course complete nonsense. 
 
Heres a fucking solution for the peasants
http://i.imgur.com/MVsUXPa.png

But as you say, historically. Its time to drop that awfull fucking shit. 
 
lol i remember lowering the screensize in doom to get better fps 
Bump For DaZ Who Has Been Living In A Cave.... 
 
Cube 2 / Sauerbraten 
Tsk.. how can a thread like this forget http://sauerbraten.org/ it even has its own icon on this messageboard! Certainly was designed to stay very close to Quake in terms of gameplay and level design in particular. Some of the best maps for it are by Quake mappers like our own Metlslime no less! 
Shit Dude. 
Admittedly sauerbraten is quite old now compared to to the young pretenders.... 
And Hasn't Had An Update 
in the last five years.

But it is still good: while the AI is quite bad i have it installed for a quick play from time to time. 
 
I have a map in the SVN for Tesseract, (Cube 3, I guess?) if anyone wants to check it out. It's... not great, but not awful either. It would probably be better if Tesseract had better gameplay. 
Alphacorp Btw 
 
Alphacorp 
could you provide a link or something? All i could find was what seems like a guild/faction of what it seems an exploration game called Star Citizen. On the other side Tesseract was easy to find and will play for a bit. 
 
https://tesseract.pupskuchen.net/latest/tesseract-nightly.zip I think this is all you need to play it. Just find the map in the menu. 
OK 
i understand now. I thought that you got the name of the game wrong, and that it was Alphacorp and not Tesseract, not that you were talking about the name of your map, my bad.

But this one died quickly, i couldn't find a web that has something about the game apart from 2013-2015 save Quadropolis and one in 2009, but on the other hand your link shows lots of recent updates.

By the way, good map there, it runs faster than the detail would make it seem. Pity i couldn't play much as i couldn't see the way to change keys. 
 
#104 
in light of this revelation I just want to say that the weapons for wrath have been done for some time :P 
@killpixel 
We know the score hombre. :) 
 
Man, all this stuff is so heavy on the presentation and light on the gameplay mechanics. I just want oldskool SP gameplay, not necessarily all the dudebro actionflick stuff or bathroom-tile sized pixels. Also 2.5d map design kinda sucks compared to full 3d, give me that sweet z-axis action, damnit. No one in the nineties actually wanted that limitation. 
DUSK IS OUT ON STEAM MOTHER FUCKER'S ! 
FAO Devs: 
[11:08] Shambler: retro is not about recapturing the "shitness" of the 1990s, it's about recapturing the good bits 
Has Anyone Else Here 
given dusk a spin? 
Dusk SP 
Dusk: at the moment it's good, not great. Has potential. Very much focused on gameplay over looks.

Interesting map designs, lots of z-axis. No fall damage. Fast movement. Enemies lack variety in attacks imo. Weapons mainly hitscan, firing them feels nice, good sounds also. Maps are short and key/gate based. The maps progress in theme, but very gradually, with a unified color palette, felt nice. Got lost a couple of times, so that part felt rightly oldskool, haha. The music is great. The boss fights (there's 3 iirc) are tame. As for difficulty, I played it on medium difficulty and didn't die once, though I went through some low-health situations. It'll probably be a breeze for any experienced Quake player. Jumping feels very different to Quake, had to get used to it.

Lots and lots (and lots) of winks to older shooters, it's very much a hodgepodge of unashamedly stolen ideas. I had fun playing through the first episode. I hope a newer release will bring some more variety in maps and enemies, and perhaps weapons (that said, it's probably already more varied than most shooters). 
BTW 
The presentation is very lo-fi, but considering this thing is 90% the work of a single developer I think that's totally the right decision. 
DUSK 
@StillTooLazyToRegister - I agree somewhat, your assessment seems more realistic than the steam reviews.

Level Design - I disagree with many reviewers on this point. Dusk's poor level design is probably its greatest shortcoming. As a result, the game is boring, easy and exploitable (I was a able to bypass a keyed door by stacking barrels).

Visuals - yep.

Weapons - Overall, they feel pretty good with nice feedback.

Sound & Music - Sound is good. The music is the most polished thing in the game.

at the moment it's good, not great. Has potential.

I would say at the moment it's not good but has potential.

I've seen this game called a "love letter to oldschool FPSes". IMO, it's more of a doodle on a post-it note than a love letter.

I'm somewhat puzzled. DUSK has good steam reviews as well as positive reviews from the likes of LGR and GGManLives. I must be out of touch or missing something; as a massive fan of retro shooters DUSK is not hitting any of the right notes for me. 
The Current Trend For Retro Shooters 
is really just a race to the bottom for most devs, I think. The vast majority of their target-audience haven't played any 90's shooters for 20-odd years, so they'll be satisfied with a few cheap visual hooks and some silly monsters. Obviously like any trend this will bottom out leaving some room for the devs who are putting the time in to make a genuinely good game, but by that point a lot of the people jizzing over things like Dusk will have happily returned to the AAA thrills of Call of Duty 83768. 
 
more like target-audience haven't played anything in the 90s by not existing and wanting to live in the mystical "90s are best" time. 
 
dae le h8 90s kids amirite 
Proof Dusk Is Good Game 
 
It's nothing new, there were loads of shitty FPS in the early 90s too that were obviously just made to jump on the Doom clone bandwagon. Taking that into account I'm going to say that the current string of shovelware is the true retro FPS revival but that's going to be an opinion that grates with just about everyone else here. 
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