Prizes and everything!
@Ionous I just wanted to confirm that this is the correct version of Quoth linked above? I recall there being some compatibility issues around the time of Jam 9 due to multiple releases of Quoth 2.x.
I'll double check with Preach, but being straight from this site, I believe it is.
It is indeed the correct, latest version of Quoth.
Oh, don't worry. I'm all over this. I use tons of brushes because I WANT to, not because I NEED to ;)
so health and ammo packs count as brushes?
"aflag" "1" in worldspawn
I hope we get all sorts of abuses like clip brush bridges visualised by lots of misc_model corpses.
While it sounds like a clever idea, I'd almost consider that cheating, to be honest. Similarly, one could make a bunch of func_walled rooms and clone them infinitely with modelindex hacks. But that kind of defeats the purpose of the contest.
yeah i was just going to make clip brush bridges and then line them with light globes to define hte edges for the player... if i was participating.
A map consisting of nothing but 100 clip brushes and a couple func_model corpses would be pretty Lovecraftian (In the Walls of Eryx)
Tempting...but I'm restricted to playing Quake only atm. Which reminds me, I must go back and see if I can beat Periwinkle Paranoia without cheating after all these years.
Not surprising negke, with all your h4x you could probably make The Marcher Fortress with 100 "brushes."
On The Topic Of Map Hacks...
What's the 'brush/not brush' stance on brush entities that are technically triggers or act as triggers, but not a trigger_* (e.g. info_notnull or InitTrigger)? I'm not 100% familiar with the extra trigger functionality Quoth adds and have to finish reading that. In a similar vein, what about rotating brush entities made using the map-hack method instead of the frankly terrifying Quoth/Hipnotic method?
Also, is it cheap to hit up Quaddicted and play every existing 100-brush map to get an idea what's possible with the limits and what people have already made?
Everything that's visible counts as a brush. Clips and triggers (regardless of how they're done) do not. Simple as that.
The rotation hack is fine since it creates visible brushes after all.
Why would it be cheap to check out the existing maps? I noclipped through them myself. Most of them are terrible... Of course this is an easy thing to say when not actually having tried to make something worthwhile with 100 brushes yet.
That is, if you use the hack on the actual brush entity.
So brush entities used in say, logic gates count towards the limit as- while not seen by the player in standard gameplay- they're visible, solid entities? Guess it's time to learn about Quoth's snazzy info_logic_* entities, then.
Why would it be cheap to check out the existing maps? I noclipped through them myself. Most of them are terrible...
Hey, I dunno. Most of the reviews aren't looking too hot for sure, but I've got no idea just how many brushes it takes to make a box look pretty and still have enough left over for the rest of the map.
I'd count logic gates, yeah.
I mean, it's a bit of an ideological thing. One could argue that every single brush should count including clip/trigger/skip/hint, because after all they are part of the map and its functionality or requirement of its playability or the like. Afaik they took a more lenient approach with the first three 100bs (heh) by not counting clip/trigger.
I guess bonus points for those who make it 100 max including all extras (minus ammo boxes of course).
I can't recall 100b3 but the first two definitely counted trigger/clip as brushes. I remember discovering trigger_teleport could be used as a point entity for teleporting monsters in (thanks to using a shitty old editor that didn't distinguish between pointents/solidents) and abusing the hell out of it :)
But it makes sense not to count them if the emphasis is on creative design and it's not a "who knows the most map hacks" contest. Particularly with triggers, which only enhance gameplay. Clip shouldn't count if it's only used to stop the player getting stuck/caught but I'm not sure about the whole invisible bridges thing. One for the judges.
but I've got no idea just how many brushes it takes to make a box look pretty and still have enough left over for the rest of the map.
Start by not thinking in terms of boxes! And check out CZG's pair of entries from 100b2 if nothing else :)
Is Custom Music Permitted?
I Want 666 Brush Competition Next
I didn't state otherwise in the rules, so sure, I don't see why not.
Start Map Estimates
So I do plan on making a start map for this, so if posssible I’d like to get a rough estimate of how many entrances I’ll need. If you are making a map, or plan on making one, let me know either here, on Discord or on the contest email in the original post. Thanks.
if i were to make an episode out of 100 brushes maps? Would that be OK with you Ionous? I have a layout that could work very well for it, as we are using Quoth.
I will join, i suppose that no matter what I make i will be able to finish.
I did consider making one of my entries a two-map experience, but discarded he idea. Single entries only, though as many as you want.
Make them standalone, but add secret exit teleports for an optional episodic experience.
That's A Challenge
to do with just 100 brushes, but i will try.
If not i can always release them later and just one or two for this contest.
Brush Count For Triggers
Just to mention, Quoth supports point triggers
. So there's no need for a trigger to consume a brush.
On the other hand, because they're quite fiddly to set up, there's a pretty strong case for just using brushes and then not counting them. They aren't a meaningful contribution to the brush count, because the exact same map could
be made with the brush swapped for a point trigger.
Sure, a prospective mapper could have made every triggered event tied to an item or pickup, but that makes gameplay rather feel like Serious Sam. Not counting brush triggers gives the mapper more gameplay freedom, methinks.
Also, I have not player around with point triggers. I didn't consider that, but with the ease that brush triggers can be deployed....
Count Me In
What the heck, gotta make a real map sometime. At least a hard 100-brush limit means it's impossible to faff around with details forever... right?
Ha, one would hope so.
im making a map for this ionous
Excellent. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
I'm new to quake mapping, I'm willing to join.
What do mean "map must exit to start.bsp"
How to configure that ?
What is Quoth ? Why is it required ?
Quoth is a mod for Quake that adds a lot of features and new monsters. You can still make a "vanilla" id map and it should play fine in Quoth.
Some Quoth info here: https://youtu.be/-XCr8FvmF3k
Watch my tutorials. I cover the trigger_changelevel to the start.bsp in one of then entity tutorials.
I've almost finished a map with 100 solids, when a question came to my mind : does 1 brush = 1 solid ? Or 1 brush = 1 rendered face ?
1 brush = 1 solid. A brush can have many faces.
I couldn't resist posting a wip preview =)
Really cool conceptually. Look forward to seeing it fully fleshed out.
First map is almost done. Hope to start the second tomorrow.
I Do One Map
Awesome. Glad to have you aboard.
I'll be participating as well.
Excellent. Good luck to you.
Saturday Night Mapping Stream
Working on my second entry.
Starts in an hour.
Checking Brush Count
Just to be clear: what's the best way to count brushes? Can I hit ctrl+a from Trenchbroom for an accurate count of my total brushes? Is there a particular method I should be using to check?
Yes but use the view menu to hide clip, hint and trigger brushes. Pretty sure this will be an accurate count.
How I can give all models from quoth2 ? Example, tree1.mdl
Sorry, Get Models
A lot of the models for Quoth are inside the Quoth pak files. Just use pakscape to open them. The tree model you are looking for is in Quoth pak1.pak in particular. I think the same tree is in the AD progs, and the progs for a dozen other maps...
I know how to use this. I only needed a list of available models
I’m extending the deadline to May 27th. You now have an extra week.
I might actually be able to join now. I was sad because the entire time period I've been in Mexico on business without a laptop.
In My Case
i did 1 and a half map of the planned episode on the same map and i am still at 50 brushes. Now i have to decide, make the entire episode on one map or add detail.
bigger map or more recyclable map, in my head.
Just A Reminder...
Three days remaining in the competition. Four entries thus far. Even if you haven't started, there's still time to lay 100 brushes...
A Quick But Specific Question Before I Finish Up My Entry...
Does light_tubelight and misc_plasmabox count as an brush? I suppose they should be regarded as external models?
I'd say they're internal models, and do not count as a brush.
dropping from this. I have been lazying too much around and even if i put myself working non-stop from now on i don´t think i will have something decent finished before the deadline.
Done With My Entry
Since I won't have access to the internet for the next five days, I'm posting a DL link here as a safety measure (and as a sneak peak):
I received the map. Thanks again.
I was lucky to get a new PC just the other day and to celebrate I took some much higher resolution screens than I normally do.
I imagine the maps will be posted up soon, in the meantime here's a gallery:
10 Minutes To Spare
Cut it closer than a Shambler's cunt hair, but I got the map submitted. Now I can sleep.
It’s going to be about two weeks before release. Along with the heavy work commitments I have going, one of the judges won’t be available until next weekend.
So I Volunteered To Put Together The Composite Screenshot
Holy moly some of these maps.
The End Draws Near
I hope to have this out in the next 10 - 12 hours.