|Posted by shadesmaster on 2019/02/28 02:09:29|
Q!Zone for Quake was another Wizardworks cash-grab in the 1990's, an officially recognized expansion pack along the likes of Quake Mission Packs 1 and 2.
Take a good look at the awesome levels within, the astounding quality, the cool new enemies....
IT SUCKS, more or less. So my little project involves using the Quoth2 (or Hipnotic) resource .fgd as a base, and remastering some of the original maps into a new episode - and yes, I'm aware this originally had 3 episodes plus a DM episode. Besides the .fgd, you can use whatever textureset you like, though HIPNOTIC.WAD is *highly* recommended.
Watch it on youtube if you don't own it - the levels are simple enough that you have PLENTY of creative freedom in expanding them. But give it a Mission Pack #1 vibe. Things to consider:
- the green goblins are thematically the crappier versions of Hipnotic Gremlins. Quoth2 doesn't have Gremlins, but more OTHER things (not even found in AD). Flying Polyps are a superior version to the Q!Zone blob, for instance.
- each Q!Zone map was a mish-mash of themes, so that can and should be completely redone. Even the level names sometimes were hokey, so just be sure the general layout shines through.
These Levels Sucked
Sorry, but these levels were worthless. I don’t see the point of remaking them.
Better idea would be to port the new monsters to the Keep mod. This mod was the one with the lava boss, right?
The Point Would Be...
to just do it. It's a challenge and a middle finger at the same time. Besides, there is some worth in remaking these levels, even if it's just the equivalent of knowing you're a better mapper than supposed professionals from 30 years ago.
to whom exactly? People who made this pile of garbage 20 something years ago? I'm sure they're going to have a good laugh upon learning that two decades after they've ripped off a bunch of folks, someone decided to show them how its really should be done. lol
If you want a challenge just google random dungeon generator and try to make a level from whatever layout it will give you. At least you won't have to waste your time on watching youtube videos
People barely have any time to make the maps they want as it is, when I see a call to remake maps from a bad expansion pack that literally nobody else even remembers it makes me want to catch up on my book backlog instead.
This was already said multiple times on QM, so it's really weird that you decided to go with this regardless.
sounds good if done well, the doom community done something similar with bad quality maps turning them into worthy maps
anyway aftershock is a bit less crappy than Q!Zone. Only good release of the !zone series is H!Zone for Heretic (also Starcraft Retribution unofficial add on is quite good)
I think that lackluster products deserve remaking, but they must be somewhat significant. And nothing is more frustratinf than fixing someone else's... garbage.
Q!Zone also has 4 crazy new Monsters - Headless! Nucker! Flyer! Snapped!
Q!Zone also gives you a wicked new weapon - the Slicer!
Where's the one who actually did buy the CD¿
What The Fuck
This is like asking for a remastered, Blu-ray boxed set re-release of "Me and the Chimp"...
I'm Just Throwing Out Reasons
You don't need to use that as motivation, but it would be fun to see this stuff be improved, if for MP purposes as much as SP. They did advertise the maps as MP compatible too, after all.
~=* Opinion Incoming *=~
For a project like this to stand a chance of gaining traction, there needs to at least be some kind of existing awareness, appreciation or nostalgia for the original maps. No-one cares about or remembers these turds, which is why I can't see this being an idea that would interest too many people.
It's not because they are bad, it's because they are utterly insignificant. It could be fun to "update" a famous bad map that everyone knows about (I don't have too many examples to hand).
yeah i kind of aggree with Kinn.
Remixing a map that is already great -- pointless, because you can't improve it much.
Remixing a map that is kind of bad -- a lot of potential to improve it which is good.
BUT, if the bad map is not iconic/famous, there are few people that would care or appreciate the improvements you made.
Can't Hurt Trying To Run It
let nature take its course
How are the custom monsters in this? good?
Didn't Got Hurt Buying It
The Slicer has a projectile that bounces off the walls and works rather efficiënt, but has a too large appearance as it fills a quarter of the screen, IMHO.
Headless shoots lavaballs rather directly, so two you won't survive.
Nucker wares an awefull big hammer that shoots a strange weary pulsating bhumrang.
Snapped is a green creep with long arms that won't affect much.
Flyer swamps like a scrag with another appearance and attack.
Then the maps may not be as good as SOA or DOE, but they're quiet enjoyable. It's been a point of discussion earlier and I really can't get it.
Let's say they are poor and made with the idea of catching up with the glory of the first Quake release.
I´ve got a bit lame wondering why levels nowadays have to be top notched and superiour.
I think it´s not fair because the joy of mapping only leads to better levels in time.
But of course I have not the intention to make a commercial product, as AD could have been.
I´m not complaining, it´s just the rareness of creeps that lure me out my cave to start a flame when their plate is served with lower intents.
Afterall, the maps aren´t that bad at all, but the fact is that Quake is free on Steam so keep the custimor satisfied.
I may be wrong but how do you plan to make a mapjam from a commercial project that carries altered monsters and progs.dat? Also the thunderbold acts otherwise as it has a bounce off. The Quaddammage doesn't last as long as in real Quake.
Why do I use so many words for such a short question?
I think the point is more to remake the maps rather than copy Q!Zone's inferior progs.dat. Besides, having the monsters available for other mappers would make for more variety in combat. If it weren't for worries about Marvel, I could supply the X-Men:ROA enemies and particular assets as well. However, I'm reluctant for obvious reasons.
If the remake maps are worthy, they would be so improved that calling them a "remake" is pointless.
Qzone looks to have every example of what not to do in Quake mapping or modding. It seems purposefully terrible. The only ideas it has that are worthy are the idea of a shuriken launcher not the implementation, chainlightning (done better elsewhere), and the time where you go up multiple pyramidal steps only to have a tiny elevator take you up the last bit...silly but creative.
The rest is garbage. Overly skinny brushwork, smooshed looking models, terrible model skinning, no renaming for new weapons/items, no texture alignment whatsoever, oversized doors for textures, oversized walls/areas, heavy use of trim as a wall, flat level layouts, poor flow, doors that need you to rub your nose on them, mishmashed incoherent texture themes/areas, poor lighting, bland boring rooms, no coherence of design, overly dark areas, very random encounters.
Play qzone, then go do the opposite for your mod map.
Which one is worst? Q!Zone or Dark Hour? I've played only Q!Zone (then I've deleted it after 10 minutes)
Wouldn't Shrak be a more fun thing to remake since it's not totally bottom of the barrel.
I also said something similar in the official Q!zone Redux Project discord channel:
i mean - wouldn't it be better to do this instead to Mission Pack 2: Dissolution of Eternity? The levels there are mostly bum, but it's a better sodding base to work with than PooZone, and EVERYONE has played MP2. It would have that "Ooohh! Interesing!" factor.
Other Mission Packs Welcome!
Indeed, the discussion this has spawned convinces me it's totally worth it! Not that I take this jam TOO seriously - it's certainly intended as an exercise, since it would be technically easier to create rooms from scratch. That's why I'm maybe making *A* map, or two, for this but still focusing on my AD episode among other things. I'll certainly create some new prefabs I'll utilize in better layouts, though, to be sure - for you can only polish a turd so much. Too much improvement, and it's essentially a different map. ;)
I also work 3 jobs (one alone which may yield overtime) so time management is a thing, but that's a different tangent for a different time! :D
Before and after.
Not done of course, and I might ditch some of the upper bricks for cliffs, maybe have the smaller bricks up top... fix some lighting issues... but you get the idea.
Quoth2 will be the mod to use, however! Even if people were to decide to use other mission pack levels as a base. DeBSP rules for cranking already compiled maps open, btw- but I'm sure you knew that!
It looks very nice! Something similar to this video :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2jNeObHnZY
Interesting, I get the analogy for sure. But power tools are beyond me, unless you're talking a drill or foam wire cutter lol.
I Don't Know If Thats The Analogy
That vice was restored to it's former glory. Its well crafted clampy and spinny bits gloriously clamping and spinning again at last.
Those QZone maps never were part of any grand vision. They aren't roughly hewn gemstones that will shine brilliantly with a bit of polish. No one is excavating the Parthenon here.
The before and after reminds me more of that old "How to Draw an Owl" meme.
Step 1 Draw some circles.
Step 2 Draw the rest of the fucking owl.
ahahahahahah the draw an owl meme made me laugh a lot. the comparison is true
How about this: take any speedmap released in the last 20 years and make a redux version of it. As a jam or an episode project.
That's Not A Bad Idea.
Awesome Idea Actually
any map created shambler/otp duo would perfectly match this theme
By all means! Although it starts with qZone, I'm willing to allow ANY map to be redux'ed! Could ve a speed nap, a mission pack 1, 2, or "3" map, etc.
It's Finally Time!
As a beginning Quake mapper I've shied away from jumping into map jams but after seeing the video for QZone...bwaaaaahahahahahaha if I do any worse than that I should be banned from any and all map editors for life!! :P Soooooo here we go...!
Has This Started?
Is there a set deadline as well? I'm away from home until later this week, though I'm considering jumping in once I return.
I do worry that the Q!Zone maps are fundamentally shitty and unsalvageable. I'll check out the maps and see for myself.. :)
As this thread seems to leach out in haze I want to thank shadesmaster for his proposal. Me myself would never start something like a mapjam, but I want to add another theme.
Maybe it will go up in smoke in the same way, but it is based on the ideas I had when starting The Abandon.
I had found the QuakeLab files and the examples inspired me to create maps around them. Now I have uploaded them to Quaketastic and maybe it would have a catch to do some nostalgic quake mapping.
If not I won't mind, but I would point out to a little jewel in it, moving light which is as far as I know the only hack I've seen to move lights.
Do you have a website where we can take a look at some of your projects?
although it's a bit kinky and outdated, but here you go.
Again, I once heard people ask for the movinglight hack.
I knew I had it somewhere on my drive, these are files from the BBS 1996, and are vanished from the net.
I've spent three days collecting all tutorials from Inside3D, after discovering they were fainted from the website.
To my strange surprise they appeared on my mobile(?!).
Does anyone have a logic explanation for this,
I mean.., the web is the web afterall.
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