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I read a lot of toppics about the possibillity of making a chasm quake convertion. As with the discusion about beez it often ends up whith a lot of whisfull thinking.
Here my intention to do make a chasm.quake devkit.

So far I've got the models in Quake running, but only on "notarget" function. If you have any ideas here is a devkit with the results.
There is still a lot to be done before all subroutines are cleaned up. For some I have a solution, but there are a lot of double poses in them.

To be done:
- stripping the frames for double action.
- adding the attack pain and death qc.
- eventually change the weapons and attack.
- adjusting the sound files.
- making maps for it with the chasm.wad
- extracting the cieling/floor parts.

Here's the first part of The Sewer map I'm making to try out the first three monsters Stratos - Faust and Spider.



I know it is a rather big chunk of work.
I just do it for fun and have no commercial intrest.
Just my urge to see that bastards run in Quake.
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something is wrong with the pig's bounding box, Mong and goblin does not infight with pig. 
The lionman's rock throw looks really bad, it looks like a rock is coming out of his club, which makes no sense.

Don't give range attacks to melee monsters. There's no animation for them and they look really bad. Instead, just give the lionman more health. 
the Chasm Bat is alright? 
The Chasm bat is from the Phantom's fireball? 
I have no idea, can be if you say so. Just decided to make the one frame model to monster enemy.
Lots of the models have only one sided vertexes. 
Did you go to Chasm level 12 to fight the Phantom yet?

When you are finished fixing the pig's bounding box, can you do a test map where a fiend fights a pig? 
madfox, some tip from me. In Noesis put -mdlskinscl in "Advanced option". This should fix skins higher then 200 pixels. For bounding boxes use qME. Go to View->Model Proerties->Bounds. I tab All frames copy Lower Limit and Upper limit vectors to setsize() in QuakeC 
Right.., thanks for the advice. Thing is I spent out some time finding a way to get the UV skinfile compatible to quake.
First versions all crashed the 300x'' border in other engines then quakespasm. 
@_SixShoota: Maybe I have another version of noesis, I couldn't find the readme. That option is a secret to me.

@_yeh1: here's your pig and fiend fight. I saw the goblin and mong fight piggy, the chasm monsters just have a long melee attack that doesn't change fast.

Congrats, the double shot is working. I think you should give double missiles to the stratos, as the ringed projectile is not worth the hassle.

The walking animation for the Gross and the deadguy is still not complete, they seem to kind of slide.

I don't understand why you keep giving the Lionman a ranged attack. His running animation is very good is the original chasm (same with gross), but you can't see it here, because he always tries to slam his club in the distance. Just give the Lionman rottweiler code without jumping. The range attack is pointless, and also not accurate. 
After you fixed the Gross' walking animation, can you do a Gross vs Ogre fight? 
Also an Alien Captain vs Shambler? 
Joker's melee and ranged damage is still too low, 25 for ranged and 20 for melee.

Improve the mong's ranged attack damage to 25, and give him the same attack as a Quake Grunt.

Gross has no dead pose yet, but I am sure you already knew that.

How you are doing with the chasm skeleton? 
Gross seem to kind of slide
The attack scenes are all in standing position, so there is no runattack.
I see no way to interupt its constant melee attack into a run pose.
As the Quake engine demands a walk scene it is a bit of a hussle to give the models the right speed with only run frames at hand.
giving the Lionman a ranged attack
All right.

Gross has two death poses, only the pose fails on one stand frame.
Don't know where the miscount comes from.

I made an easy skill to test your Quake monsters against the Chasm.

Regarding the Gross, I think the problem is that whenever the Gross throws a rock or uses its club, it moves/slides forward. Compare this with the Ogre, it stands still when it uses its chainsaw or throws a grenade. Maybe this can help you fix the sliding issue?

You planning to trim the edge of the Joker's sawblade?

An alien captain almost killed a shambler, so that is good. Where did you get the double shot code, for SOA or AD? 
Oddly enough your alien warrior does not suffer from same problem as Gross. It runs toward me, stops, and fires a laser. The Gross keeps moving forward when he throws a rock. So definitely compare the attack scenes between your alien warrior and Gross. 
I see where the problem lies. Gross attack pose was included with ai_charge(10) while ai_face() had been the place there.
It moves better now.

Clipping the joker's blade is asking for skin problems. Or I had to merge a j_disk with a very small skin file, but it aint woth the result.
Stratos rings would look better if the sprite would evolve.

The double shot code is looking clearly to the Start_Wizzard_Fast code.

I adde the second chasm weapon and it looks good.
Sad the static model keeps falling through the ground. 
will looking at this guy's model help you with the Joker's blade hand?

You mean your alien captain double shot code is from the Scrag? 
Deadguy suffers from same problem as Gross, It moves when firing a projectile attack.

And I think your mincer does too much damage now, one bite took 70 health. Tone it down to the same level as a pig.

I feel that both the alien warrior and alien captain moves forward when melee attacking, can you check the ai_charge(10)for these two monsters? 
I coded all attacks with ai_charge(10);}; so that's where the odd movements come from.

The Joker's hand is right, his disk is square. I may be glad I could add two new verts to make it look good without ruining the skin file.

In the wizard code are two args that control the double fire code. Changing the vec parameter and movedirectory with the destination angle gives the result. 
One other thing, I see that both the lionman and the pig melee attack outside of range. I don't understand why you are having this issue. Your mincer code is already perfect. Just give the mincer code to the pig/lionman/viking, and it will all be good. 
Also, move the Gross' rock projectile a little to the right, right now it looks like the projectile is coming from his head instead of his hand. 
Yes, origins are not balanced yet.
It looks as if the deadguy and other monsters use muzzle_flash in their melee attacks.
Also I start to understand why the Chasm monsters stay further off distance to the player. Chasm dimensions are ten times larger to Quake.

Is the HeroNew the Internet player of Chasm? 
Regarding Muzzle flashes, the only really noticeable one is the yellow thing when the alien captain fires. Please remove the yellow thing.

You remember that weird code you did that give the lionman a ground slam attack? I still think you should give it to the deadguy. Maybe make a copy of the deadguy and try it?

Yes, Heronew is the Chasmguy 
what damage values do you currently use for the mong's gun and his melee attack? what value is the mincer's melee attack? 
- Skill settings are in the readme.
- Added Sarcof, a death pose and changed the doubled pain functions.
- First try on chasm weapons (OMG).
- Try the hard skill for your convienent.

reduce Mong melee attack to 20, also make his shotgun 20 damage.

Faust missile should be 40, same as a Ogre grenade.

Increase Orc Melee to 25

Increase fatguy missle attack to 25.

Make Viking same height as death knight 
Sarcof is a boss, He should have around 3000 health, and be the same size as armagon.

Are you able to edit the color on your Chasm skins? like make a red Sarcof?

When you convert the Chasm Skeleton, His fireball is going to be hard to create. I suggest using this: 
Give your Lionman rottweiler (without jumping) code. fix the lionman's ai_charge(10) problem.

Give both the lionman and the pig more health, close to mincer 
Also, some of your low level monsters have too much health. The Chasm bat and scorpion should have around 50 health. The Mong should be at around 80, same as a enforcer, the Stratos should be around 100. The Faust should be around 160. You have to remember that 200 is already Ogre level, and the Ogre is a middle class monster 
But Why? 
I feel that the Health for the Alien Warrior and Mincer should be reversed. Alien warrior should be 300 Health, and the Mincer at 400, possibly even 450 Health as it cannot jump like the fiend, would need a bit more health to cover the distance. 
300 Health is good for the Alien Warrior because the Death Knight's Health is 250, but his attack is more dangerous then the alien Warrior. So overall, the Alien warrior is a Death Knight level threat which I feel is perfect for him. 
Not Orange? 
Lionguy has only a melee attack.
Raising shotgun ldmg is a hack.
That AlienCaptain gets too strong with three double missile attacks.
I lowered the ldmg to 15. 
I see no difference in the Lionman behavior, still trying to attack me with his club at range. However, your viking code is completely fine, so give the viking code to the Lionman. They should act exactly the same.

The Alien Warrior is now too tough, there is no need to give him 500 health. tone it down to 300.

The missiles is just test code for the stratos, right? Please change it back to lasers for the Alien Warrior and Alien Captain.

The stratos is still too much health. This guy is a scrag level enemy, so 120 health tops. 15 per missile for a total of 30 damage.

If Sarcof is really going to be a boss then his missiles and melee need to do more damage (close to 100, kill the player in 2 hits), or the Boss version need to fire multiple missiles.

But I like your mini Sarcof as a Shambler class enemy with 500 health, can you re include it? For the mini version, keep the damage at 25. Like in Duke3d, there is the battlelord and the mini battlelord. 
Also, I just saw a gross take on an Ogre with both near full health, and the battle was almost 50/50. It was beautiful lol. So the Gross is perfectly balanced. Just move the rock to his hand. 
Do a viking vs Death Knight in your next beta 
Not sure about Lionguy, you don't like the range attack with its club?
ALien warrior and AlienCaptain are no low range monsters. In chasm they have a missile attack, aren't they? 
No, the alien warrior and captain have green lasers in Chasm, so give them the laser back.

Like I said, the lionman and the viking should act exactly the same.

Did you use the "go" cheat code to see the different monsters? 
Because Chasm is a fine game and deserves an afer life after the Editor got lost without a of 59695 in stead of 95695. (If that would be the cause. 
Like you said, this is a chasm devkit, so it should contain all monsters accurate to Chasm. So give your viking code to the Lionman, finish the Lionman first, then you can make a copy of him and give him new attacks

One of the idea I have the making a copy of the stratos and making him shoot double grenades, since quake always lacked a "bomber" enemy. That's why I asked you if you can edit the color and make new skins. 
The Lionguy code is the same as the Viking, although the lather has three attack poses and Lionguy only two.
Don't see what the's the hussle here.

I have no "go" cheat at hand.
Changing texture is quiete another job, the Joker looks awfull.

I have two monsters Skeleton and Joker, that have a regenerate code. A bit tacky to get them on the zombie trail.

Added NewHero and raptor sounds, further changes in health and skill:
Hey Madfox, I made two videos showing what the problem with the Lionman is:

You can clearly see the difference between the two. Hope it helps you fix it. 
It seems that the continue attack on distance keeps showing up. After some research I discovered that although lion and viking have the same (rottweiler) code, they differ in melee_attack.
Viking has three and Lion guy has two.
So I made a gesture by making a new lionguy_atkb and now the attack on distance is gone.

Why it is I don't have any idea, only that it seems to work this way. 
Nice Congrats on the fix.

Even thought you give the alien captain and alien warrior their lasers back, they skill use rocket sounds.

The sounds for the Alien warrior and alien captain are also not correct, it should be Alisee1.ogg and alisee2.ogg.

Lower the alien captain's laser to 10 damage, right now he shoots six lasers. 10x6 =60, which is good, 15x6 is too much damage.

Lower the alien warriors health to 300, he feels to tough.

Check the bounding box of Heronew, monsters don't infight with him.

after testing fiend vs pig, and viking vs death knight, change the pig's health to 300, and the viking Health to 450, otherwise they died too easily to fiends and death knights.

Can you also include the updated health and damage chart next time? 
sorry, viking health to 350, that will give it more of a chance against death knight 
Alienwarior has a health of 300.
Little tweaking for that Skeleton.
It only dies at first attack and has no missile attack.

Hey Madfox, the Lionman is not fixed.

I See 
In the ChasmQuake level it keeps that behaviour, although in a single map this is not the case. Have no idea about it.
Can be the models and qc are becoming a bit unstable. 
The video is on private setting, I cannot see it.

what about giving Fiend code to lionman with jumping removed? The fiend had left and right slash, just like the lionman 
I made the video public, it's low extention. 
Hey Madfox, the chasm skeleton never had regeneration.

I made a video:

The model looks good, except for here: 
As I wrote before, most of the chasm models have only one side vertices. For some I could find a way around it, like adding new triangles that would shape up with the same skin file.

Others won't work, like adding a flamemouth to the entities by destroying the excisting skin file. So I juggled the excisting ones in the model and reordered the alpha channel one.

Skeleton is really poor with vertices, especially the boots. I tried doubling the triangles but end up with scrambled skin file.

Should find a way to get around the 64x941 skin size problem.

My attention was drawn in another specific casuality. In the mod Killer_Quake QC I came across some arguments.
float THROW_ARM = 1;
float THROW_LEG = 2;
float THROW_TORSO = 4;
float BODYPARTS_ARM = 1;
float BODYPARTS_LEG = 2;

Could it be possible with this code to make the entities make shootable bodyparts? 
Well skeletons are suppose to the animated by magic anyway, so just get the movement and missile attack working.

Did you try fiend code on the lionman? what about knight code? 
As long as the code like #228 works I don't see a reason to change Lionguy.

Retextured the boots and hand of Skeleton, it works just like the Zombie. Only bad is it regenerates once
So you are saying that the Lionguy problem is because of the map, not because of the code?

That fight looks pretty good, use the skull projectile I linked to earlier.

I think your stratos is too small, next to the Scrag it looks really small, make it because.

The Joker doesn't have regeneration either, it falls down and gets back up, But I think that is a long pain pose and not regeneration. 
regarding limb removal, I think you should try that after all the Chasm monsters are converted and work good. The main thing about that is that the attacks change when the limbs are removed. Even Panzerchasm has problems with that. 
I'm not sure what causes this side effect.
Joker don't has a regenerate code yet, because I wonder what causes this one time self.inpain effect.
After the first time it won't respond again and won't hardly go into run or pain functions.
Just keeps attacking in one row.
It can be the frame count is or too long, or not in balance. 
so if you placed the lionman into another map, like fourfeather, would his code work correctly? 
- Repaired the Skeleton status to Zombie.
- Added a small Sacrof.
- Repaired the Lionguy attack.

Congrats on the lionman being fixed

Here is a saved game for dos chasm with a skeleton, so you can see how the real thing works 
There is something wrong with the Stratos, it changes size during its animations

Both versions of the Sacrof is too weak, change to:

sarcof - melee_attack 55* missile attack 85* health 2500. (armagon level)
sercof - melee_attack 25* missile attack 35* health 500. (shambler level)

Delete or make the rock invisible on the deadguy, and it looks like the shout attack, right? 
what is the damage value on a fiend jump? 
I accidently resized only one frame in Stratos. I did an update but it's possible it is rejected. 
Demon_JumpTouch = ldmg = 40 + 10*random();

I think Skeleton's health is too low.(:P) 
Yes, the skeleton can take 3 rockets.

what is the code for the mincer's attacks?

I feel like both versions of the Sacrof is too slow, make them the same speed as the alien captain.

You see how currently after the Skeleton's regen, it could only be killed with rockets? Then part of the code is useful for the deadguy, as in Chasm only rockets can kill the deadguy. 
Can you put do a test map where the big Sacrof and the mini are next to each other? How big is the boss Sacrof compared to the shambler?

Can you do another one mini Sacrof vs shambler? 
Finished tt_tower. I hate turrids! Yes? I hate them!!!

Scarof and Scerof have even less attack frames than AlienCaptain,
so they are faster than him.
Their attacks were less damagefull.

Mincer is just the dog code with melee attack of 50*.

The regenerate code is rather obvious. If I make the health stratus higher they won't go down anymore. 
I am talking about the Scarof's walk speed

Can you show me the dog code and pig code?

Make turret shoot lasers, nails, and rockets, and the damage between 20-25. Quake 2 Ground Zero shows us that high damage turrets are nasty 
Have another play and tell me how it goes.
Their walk speed was indeed too low.

Turret is not done yet

Stratos corpse sinks into the ground again, please fix

deadguy attack is good, but needs a bit more damage, also the sound is not correct, the zombie has a special howling sound.

I've seen the mincer do close to 100 damage in one attack, why is this? The melee damage should not go above 50. Pig should be slightly less than mincer. 
I think that weird rock sound that the deadguy currently has is actually for the Gross. The Chasm developer mixed up Gross and Lionman. 
I see no trouble in t_tower, can be the adjustments for the statics.
I have the same thing with sacrof

I had to recover the seized Stratos, which is the one that drops.

Mincer melee attack is 50*, but it also has a charge attack of 14. 
but the turret does look collapsed on my computer, but as long as your are aware of the problem, I am sure you can fix it.

so the mincer can do 64 damage in one bite? Reduce the damage to 36, so that it can only do 50 damage. The only one who should do 60-70 damage melee is the boss Scarof.

Skeleton also walks too slow. 
can you put the Scarof and Mini Scarof in an big open area in the next map, along with a shambler. Really hard to test in that small area. 
Madfox, one more thing, in the latest version, a mong can take more than a rocket, while two rockets can kill a lionman. Can you double check the health settings between the game and your table? 
All Monsters? 
Lionguy health 220 - Mong health 180.

- Added Phantom and Sphinx.
- Experimental stadium, not sure of the attacks.
- Changed the tt_tower as the static collapsed the entity.
- I keep the sticky warning : "h_gross is a HexenII model".


Coding made me ketchup. 
Lionguy and Viking needs more health due to being Melee monsters. 300-350, tougher than Gross

Mong is too tough at 180, the most powerful enforcer from AD, the eliminator, only has 120 health. 80-100 health is good for Mong.

How is the Joker doing? The square blade? the pain pose? 
These are the AD health values you can use for reference:

AD Monsters
monster_spider (30/75HP) // Erratic arachnids in brown/green variety
monster_voreling (30/60HP) // Ankle biting, crazy jumping, mini shalraths
monster_swampling (30/60HP) // Ankle biting, poisonous three legged terrors
monster_lostsoul (30HP) // Floating skull with a ram/bite attack
monster_dguard (35HP) // Medieval style soldier replacement (melee only)
monster_eel (35HP) // Fast moving sneaky fish firing plasma (range only)
monster_boil (40HP) // Proximity mine with tarbaby like explosive damage
monster_zombiek (60HP) // Sword wielding zombie, fast movement (melee only)
monster_dcrossbow (75HP) // Chainmail knight with crossbow (sniper ability)
monster_gargoyle (120HP) // Large flying fireball throwing imp (range only)
monster_gaunt (120HP) // Flying plasma wielding harpy creature (range only)
monster_scorpion (80/120HP) // Brown/green range stinger and black jumping surprise
monster_skullwiz (120HP) // Tall wizard with fast skull missiles and teleportation
monster_hogre (200HP) // Ogre Hunter model replacement (extra melee)
monster_hogremac (200HP) // Alternative ogre model with mace weapon
monster_hogreham (300HP) // Heavy metal ogre model with hammer attack
monster_dknight (250HP) // Hell Knight model replacement (classic silver)
monster_wraith (300HP) // Semi-transparent wraith with debuff attacks
monster_dfury (400HP) // Fast sword wielding knight with magic attacks
monster_dsergeant (400HP) // Blue Flail knight with homing missiles
monster_drole (500HP) // Large tentacle tank with rocket/melee attacks
monster_minotaur (500HP) // Giant hulk with fast plasma/poison attacks
monster_golem (500HP) // Massive mountain of rock with large fists and feet

monster_army_rocket (45HP) // Red armour heat seeking rocket soldiers
monster_army_grenade (60HP) // Green armour Z aware grenade firing soldiers
monster_army_plasma (75HP) // Blue armour high damage plasma gun soldiers
monster_pyro (100HP) // Yellow armour flamethrowing enforcer (burn defuff)
monster_fumigator (100HP) // Green armour Posion Spewing enforcer (poison debuff)
monster_jim (50/100HP) // Fast moving flying laser/rocket robot
monster_defender (100HP) // Dual wielding SSG (melee range) and GL (mid range)
monster_eliminator (120HP) // Blue armour double firing plasma gun enforcers
monster_centurion (120HP) // Flying hover board plasma gun enforcers
monster_freddie (500HP) // Slow moving weapons platform with ogre on top
monster_seeker (500HP) 
Also include that Green scorpion skin you made, no reason to waste it. 
I don't think the skeleton should be based on the Zombie, rather it should be based on the mummy from Mission pack 2:

Tough, slow monster that does high damage, but no regen. 
where is the Phantom and Sphinx? I cannot find them. 
Phantom & Sphinx 
They're in the easy level. 
Found the Sphinx, but not the Phantom

Sphinx and Phantom are bosses, so they should be same size as Scarof with basically the same health and damage.

Can you do a big and small version of Sphinx and Phantom.

Check the bounding box of the sphinx, big Scarof doesn't infight with it 
The projectile that the sphinx fires should be a recolored (orange) vore ball. 
The voreball effects? 
yes,but no homing, and while you are on that, make all the rockets explode please.

the Phantom fires 3 bats at once, so shrink down the chasm bat and use the model as a projectile. 
While On It.., 
yes, but I experience some fault in the launching of *.mdl and sprite files. They always appear in the first stage of animation. In fact, they're freezed while they could play the whole scene.
It needs some time_argument on spike.mdl in weapons and client, then Stratos would also look better.

Phantom is in easy on the spot where the quaddamage and gate stands. 
The current size is fine for the small phantom, but the big phantom should be the size of this guy:

Do you have problems making the phantom fire three prjectiles? Like I said before, AD's fury knight also does the same thing. The AD fury knight also fires the exact same projectile as the sphinx, so you can use that model as well. 
Pic for reference

The sphinx fires those fireballs and the Phantom fires bat in that pattern. 
That's a load of fireballs in one row! 
Finished the last two bosses and added their attack scene.

It's easy saying AD's fury knight has an attack code, but extracting this from the rest of the code is useless without changing all other parms.

I can't upload at the moment, notepad won't line up with the net. 
I think I'm close to porting the bunch of Chasm entities to Quake.
So now the fine tweaking for health and strength attack.

- Updated from post#257.

lionguy - melee_attack 25* health 300
viking - melee_attack 25* health 300
grunt - melee_attack 20* missile attack 20* health 120

- Added two big versions (2 and 1.5) for resp. Phantom and phinx.
- Made a testlevel for the endbosses. map skill setting:
- easy = Sacrof / normal = Sphinx / hard = Phantom .
- -game dev2.23 map

The sphinx is only suppose to fire one fireball, the fireball also explode.

The Phamtom is good, just replace the golden flower with the chasm bat.

Both Phamtom and Sphinx died too easily, they are supposed to have around 3000 health.

Is the mincer's melee damage still at 50? reduce it to 36.

Can I see the updated chart you have for all monster's damage and Health. 
The Sphinx also seems to float in the air instead of laying on the ground. 
I mean that The Sphinx's corpse also seems to float in the air instead of laying on the ground. 
Make the Sphinx's bite attack and fireball both around 85 damage.

Make the Phantom melee attack around 65, then make each projectile damage 25, for a total of 75 damage if all three hit. 
The small sphinx's corpse sinks into the ground.

and the small sphinx and the small phantom only do 15 damage? bump it up to 35 so that they are around the same as a shambler. The health should be around 500. 
The small sphinx's corpse sinks

Great tongue twister. 
haha, that reminds me, the Chasm base enemies fit in great with the rubicon texture set, you should consider it if you ever do a rubicon 4. 
The Quick Mad Fox Jumps Over The Lazy Brown Box 
It seems the heronew.mdl is outdated. It falls and glides all sides and ends up with a standing death frame. I will update it next time.

In spite of making profit of the new skinfile size I ended up along the model thread with models that are height=64 and width=960.
So that's under the 300 limit border. I hopefully started up in Fitzquake, but it bounces out. 
well, I need to make rubicon 3 before I make rubicon 4. 
Health And Damage 
Reduce the Chasm bat and Scorpion Health down to 50.

Melee attack 25 is too strong for Stratos, before I've seen the Mong gib enforcers with their punches and kicks, so Change Melee damage for Stratos 20.

For the Stratos missile attack, make it 15 per missile, for 30 damage if both it. Reduce the Stratos Health down to 120, same as the Mong.

The small Phamton should have 500 Health, not 180.

The Pig needs for more Health, maybe 330. it is a Melee Monster and it does not jump.

Change the Big Scarf Health to 3000.

Did you change the Mincer's melee damage to 36 so it does not go over 50 in 1 bite?

Does the Sphinx have the 14 charged attack damage like the Mincer?

I have never seen the deadguy's shout attack do 20 damage, it always does like 12. Change it to 25.

The Chart is missing the Skeleton 
Haha, so you don't consider RRP to be Rubicon 3? 
I feel that the bounding boxes for the big sphinx and phantom are wrong, I could clip into them fighting them. They should use the shambler size bounding box instead of the normal sized one.

The small Scarof's corpse still floats in the air.

Is there a value that determines how much damage a monster takes before trigging a pain state? 
- Rescaled the bboxes. Big Phantom lacks shambler size as it is a
- fly_monster.
- still use banshee's for attack as it are glowing objects.
- health of the small fantom was wrong, it is 500.
- balanced health and attack again.
- deleted the NewHero as it still acts a bit kinky. newmap = test66

There is a major issue with the big Phantom, when he fires his three fireballs, I get damaged regardless of the fireballs hitting me or not. So make the damage missile based, not hit scan.

The big sphinx's fireball looks like it is coming from his belly, not his mouth, so change the Origin of the fireball. The Gross also has this same issue. 
I changed the map for testing better skill improvement, I will add it. 
Hows progress for the skeleton and joker? 
The Killing Joke Is Ratlin' Its Bones 
I can only use the zombie code, which is only suitable for health 180*. Reason why skeleton act this way.
It was the first model I tried and stopped, because the regenerate code is rather stubborn.

- changed Phantom / Sphinx & Sacrcof attacks scenes.
- Made the map clear for skill settings, included to

What about using the deadguy code for the skeleton? Its a slow monster with ranged attack and no regen 
There are lots of poses unused because there are not enough th_functions in quake to do so. If I would do so I loose the regenerate part. I just have to puzl some more on the code.
For now I have the idea most of the entities do well. 
I do not understand what you mean. The saved game I gave to you clearly shows that the skeleton do not have regeneration, in fact, no chasm monster has regeneration at all. So there is nothing to lose. 
I think those unused poses you are talking about are unused in chasm as well, again, look at the saved game, it shows how the skeleton is supposed to act 
Vickingman has a great victory pose that's unused. 
The answer is simple, do a version of the skeleton without regen for now, and if you can indeed get the regeneration working later, then use it for a boss version. Problem solved

The victory animation is the thing that plays after the player is dead? Like the gun reload for the mong? 
I made a peeing ogre for the same case, but it lacks code.
You want a skeleton boss? 
Looking at your saved game I wonder if the skelet on fires a sprite or a precached mdl. 
Origin And Destiny 
- changed Skeleton to a commen pose without regeneration.
- the attack is with a launched sword, I think Chasm uses a sprite
- flamemouth.
- same goes for deadguy, gave its launchattack straight to dest.
- keep having problems with missile attacks for gross, as by faust.
- as soon the missile gets an org. aside the y-axe the attack_ends
- (dest.) also moves from the player.

You made a mistake on the Big Phantom, when I get hit by all three fireballs, I still get 25 damage. Each fireball is supposed to do 25 damage. 25X3 = 75.

Why did you reduce the missile attack of the sphinx and Scarof so much. The bosses are supposed to be killed to kill the player in two hits. Thats how armagon was.

The skeleton is health and damage is both too low. Change melee attack to 25, missle attack to 30, and Health to 330. It needs more health given that it is a slow moving monster.

The Gross's rock does not explode. You just need to re texture the lava ball to a normal rock. (or use the rock model that the AD golem uses)

The missiles that should explode are, Faust's missile, Sphinx's fireball, and Scarof's missile. 
Also, you should make each missile of the big Phantom fly in a straight line. Right now they homing in on the player. In Chasm, you could sometimes only get hit by one fireball and avoid the other two. 
Yes, But.., 
I appreciate your commands about the entities, as I have no idea how they behave in game, but considder the fact that, as I said before I keep having problems with the missile_attack.
It isn't only the launch -org & dest, but also the upcount on damage.
You can tell me something's wrong, but it is also top of the hat coding I'm not familiar with.

So far I could solve most problems on health and skill, but for more establishing things, like adding the entities to ai.qc, just crashes the game.

Gross had a rock prokectile first, but I think I used the fragment projectile.
The bat should zigzag, not fly straight.

What shall I do with Worm? 
reduce the missile attack of the sphinx and Scarof so much?
If I make melee_attack 65* and missile 50* its first attack is sufficient enough to kill the player instantly.

I don't know if that's the intention? 
The error with big Phantom is that it counts its missile_attack with the first frames of a melee attack together.
No matter what count I make, it kills the player instaneously.
Melee_attack starts at 6th frame and missile_attack on 2nd.
With the first missile out of reach the damage is already 55.

Also a three missile attack on one line at the player is reachless for me.

I don't really get it why the two others work properly. 
Some things I've noticed:
- You only have wall textures in your map. The floor/ceiling/sky textures are stored inside the game's FLOORS.01, FLOORS.02 etc. And the static models have their own skins as well.
- But then you have those wind turbines, which means you have a way of converting the .3O models already?
- You have the archer goblin from the addon, but no final boss?
- Noticed all the fullbrights obviously. 
textures Last year I started converting the chasm textures to a wad.file. As there are many files with lose mdl frames it took some time to gather them all. The floor and ceiling tex I couldn't find. Untill you pointed to me.
The Chasm.wad has some peculiar yellow quake.pal lacks. I haven't cleared the textures from fullbrights, because they have no 16pix seize.

windturbines> So it looks, but I can't convert *.iso files. I had a test with Preach to see what would turn as smooth, a static or an animated texture. It seems the static wins as textures only animate in game on 0.5 sec. A static can go up to 0.1.
That's how I gathered the windturbines.

final bossI got a little broke up with coding the other three bosses. Worm is already there, but lacks code. 
Floor Textures 

I can't convert *.01 files, and tried pdf fileconverter, who claimed it as non excisting.
Noesis either won't relate to FIFA Master's lost extentions, so that's why I have no floor & ceiling texters. 
I don't know what has happend, the first moment a monster sees the player it receives a lot of charg damage. After that the ammu damage comes in.
I have eliminated all charge poses, but it keeps buggin'on.
Starting a game kills me in two attacks. 
Perhaps share the source code here so others can help? 
Fact Is 
It doesn't happen untill dev2.17, so that's where I'll start looking.
Maybe the player.pain changes I made to get less warnings on ftqcc.
It looks as a charge attack, but there's no statement for it made.

share the source ? If you unpak the pak0.pak file, look in the pak0.pak/progs/quakec/
all the code-files you need are in there. 
You're unlikely to find a converter for floor files, especially a general purpose one. There's a kind of a converter over at the PanzerChasm project, but it just spits out all the floors in one file (and you'd need to compile it first). I'll write one, not right now though.

How did you get the turbine models then (street lights and wall fans as well)? These are in .3O format originally. Doesn't seem too complex a format, but a brief search convinced me there weren't any existing converters for it either.

I meant the addon boss (High Priest / WIZARD2.CAR). And looking at it now, you don't seem to have a WOLF2.CAR either. You got his spear, but no actual enemy.

Not sure what 16px have to do with these. 
Wolf2 is the orc, right? It is there. 
Ah, Right 
That's him. Why rename the monsters anyway? 
The worm and the high priest are not normal bosses anyway. Just like in quake, no custom maps uses shub as a boss 
Maybe They Should 
I generally dislike gimmick bosses. Four out of five in Chasm are a waste of a decent fight. 
What It Iz.., 
I'm not so familiar with the names, sorry.

If you want to see what happened, just take the progs.dat from dev2.16 and put them into your dev2.27 map. It will give some errors because the bosses are not there, but it will possible to play the game as intended. The test68 map is much better to check the enemies.

You can also compare the chasm_quakec_dev2.16 to see why here is not that harsh charge attack at seeing the player.

the classic map "myworld is your world" has Shub. There are probably others. 
A lot of the statics I made myself, no way converting movingwalls or vibromills. It starts with one frame like the chmbat.mdl. While copying the frame several times and make additions it is possible to create a new entity.
There is an example on quaketasic from them in three velocity stages.


Models are easy to delete fullbrights. I haven´t found a way to debright a whole wad.file. 
Madfox, most of your monster attacks are good, only issues are to fix the charge damage issue, make rockets explode, and make the phantom fire three straight fireballs. 
So the decorations you have were made from scratch? You have their textures. Someone at some point had to convert those.

For wad fullbrights there's EricW's defullbright 
about the textures...

The doom community already converted chasm textures to use in doom maps:

If you know how to extract doom textures, then you can try and see if the floor/ceiling/sky textures are there. 
Well There You Go 
Seems like a competent collection. The floors are there, no duplicates as far as I can see. And even the thin textures are correctly sized.

Meanwhile I have also discovered that Noesis can open .3O models and export them straight to .mdl, animation and all.

Even more than that, Noesis can even open entire Chasm maps and export them to common formats while including the props. Then you can just convert to .map and compile. The whole thing's automated, all that's left are the interactive parts (and matching some texture names). 
There's a lamp, hanging in the office, slowly turning.
Only way to do that is to develope a lamp and animate it, as quake has no function for it.
Most props like fences I made myself.They are already converted.

And yes, I converted all models first, before I knew Noesis could open .30 models.

What I don't understand is how you convert a map.10 file in Noesis to a map with props. If you can show me how I would like to know. 
To convert a map with props you first need to unpack CSM.BIN with Noesis (it renames certain things in a specific way). Then, on export, you put "-chasmloadmodels" in "Advanced options". This command, and some others, are documented under "Advanced commands" button to the left.

Unfortunately, I was a bit over-optimistic. Not all export formats are viable. OBJ has geometry missing, and FBX has generic material names. So the only options left seem to be Collada or glTF. Collada has slightly more reasonable material names.
Depends on your software. Blender (Assimp as well) fail to automatically hook up the textures in a Collada file. And I had to download a newer glTF importer for Blender for it not to fail on import.

map1 via gltf
map1 via collada
addon map1 via gltf 
Quit surprised how you managed to open that BIN file. It looks as if there is a possibility anyway. Would have saved me a lot of work constructing the map.
Blender is not one of my practical habits to use modelimport, but thanks for the hint. 
Too Much Charge Attack 
While searching the bin file I found the floor textures. I can update the wad file now.

I was so disordered by the charg attack of Mong & startaos I didn't know where to look. I had gave them a ldmg statement, but this works much too soon used in a launch attack.
Contraire is that I can'r give them a launch attack strength.

Here is the last update. I replaced all skinn file wuth the UVswapper, but still there's something that cause fitzquake to bounce off.

goes my heart again. 
The the original chasm, the skeleton's pain pose is not used, I don't think.

Maybe used the Joker and Skeleton models already converted to doom format to fix the skeleton knee and Joker hand blade problem? 
Here is a saved game for Dos chasm that shows the joker, as well as all weapons. 
Fait Divers 
What's the purpose of "heart" in Chasm? There are a lot of props I can't set foot off. Not that I would convert them all, but things like the "blood" texture ould be made animated. As the switches, which I see no reason to make them static.

Joker and Skeleton are the Zdoom models. Lcaptain has the same kind of raisor, but it's smaller.
I don't see it as a major problem. I added a random pose to skeleton, as if its ditching a death player.

Wouldn't be a bad idea to make NewHero the internet player.

And.., I started with the wad, then converted the monsters, changed some weapons which, I must admit, are a bit more complicated then I thought.
I have to take care or I kill the hub and add dust sprites. 
The Heart 
Madfox, can you explain how the charge damage works? 
@_chedap: That explains enough for fidling a way to get around that worm. It looks as if it is a secret place down under it.

@_yeh1: to keep it simple, take the ranger who shoots a scanhit. There is no physical object, ie no w_spike.mdl, that hits the player. Still it receives a charge load that instantly does damage.

The enforcer also shoots a laser, but this is precoded in a Launch_attack, which excecutes on the frame count number it is in the macro.

The difference is that a ranger shoots and the player always gets hit if not out of range, while a laser shot of the Enforcer can be dodged as a (physical) w_spike.

- Adjusted the floor & ceiling textures, and switch animations.
- Made an exit door by using the Iris_door construction.
- Bouncing box Sphinx, and falling Stratos rearranged.

So No monster should have charged damage, but you gave charge damage to Mong and Stratos? 
You must see charge_attack like the thing that creates the chainsaw swap pain.
While the Ogre wheels it's saw the charge attack acts like an extra boost.

Mincer has some while it bites. But a little back holding by doing so is recommended.
When a monster has a bite attack of 15* ldmg you can give the two surrounding frames a ai_ charge (8){}; they will count in when a player gets too close.
The attack will give a volume of 31* ldmg.

I deleted most charge attacks for the lower entities. 
While changing the animated button textures of quake to chasm I came upon the question how to make them turn on & off? Is there a flag for it or is it just the even or uneven frames that count?
Now the buttons keep animating while they are turned off. 
How about chart of the monster's health and how much "real" damage they do (charge damage included)? 
Chart Of The Charge 
Indicating charge damage is a bit weird.
First of all, every melee attack has a charge(10) startpoint.
It can be adjusted with ldmg().
It can also be triggered by a phrase at the end of a frame ai_charge(count). So three attack scenes can have a charge with different count and moment.
Then there is the side_melee attack that also has it counts, see ai.qc.
Then there are the Launch attacks that are made up with a ldmg() statement.
So it is not always easy to say what the end count will be related to time in charge and distance.

Here is the chart of the charge:
every melee attack has 10* ldmg. So if (+ 0*) it's already (+ 10*)

chmbat - melee attack 15* (+ 5*) health 80
deadguy - melee attack 25* (+ 10*) missile_attack 20* health 180
fatguy - melee attack 25* (+ 0*) missile_attack 25* health 200
faust - melee attack 25* (+ 0*) missile_attack 25* health 180

goblin - melee_attack 20* (+ 2*) missile attack 25* health 200
gross - melee_attack 25* (+ 20*) missile attack 35* health 240
joker - melee_attack 20* (+ 0*) missile attack 25* health 200
lcapt - melee_attack 35* (+ 22*) missile attack ? * health 600
(missile attack lcapt will probably be the enforcer's laser ldmg)

lionguy - melee_attack 25* (+ 10*) health 350
ltrop - melee_attack 25* (+ 28*) missile_attack 35* health 500
mincer - melee_attack 35* (+ 9*) health 300
grunt - melee_attack 25* (+ 0*) missile attack scanhit health 180

orc - melee_attack 20* (+ 0*) missile_attack 30* health 300
piggy - melee_attack 25* (+ 10*) health 240
sarcof - melee_attack 25* (+ 0*) missile attack 35* health 500
bigSarc - melee_attack 55* (+ 0*) missile attack 75* health 3000

sphinx - melee attack 35* (+ 0*) missile_attack 25* health 500
BigSphi - melee attack 50* (+ 0*) missile_attack 50* health 3000
fantom - melee attack 35* (+ 0*) missile_attack 40* health 600
Bigfant - melee attack 45* (+ 0*) missile_attack hitscan health 3000

scorpio - melee_attack 15* (+ 5*) health 120
stratos - melee_attack 20* (+ 0*) missile hitscan health 120
viking - melee_attack 25* (+ 20*) health 350
t_tower - melee_attack 20* (+ 0*) health 250

skelet - melee_attack 25* (+ 0*) missile_attack hitscan health 330
The big phantoms attack said hitscan, you were not able to fix this? 
Still the wizard code.
As soon as I add a ldmg to a launch_attack it works on instant.
It looks a bit strange to receive damage before getting hit. 
I think that is the biggest problem with the mod right now, other than that the monster attacks mostly good. Maybe look at the source code of the dragon from mission pack 2? Or Drake source code, it has a dragon too. 
Does the source code of the dragon has three fireballs?
I think I could pass that error at the end.
Now I'm constructing an end scene for Worm. 
Madfox, the Dragon could fire two fireballs, so maybe the code can help you to reach three. I think it is a better base than the scrag. The map name is r2m8 
Also, the Stratos's missile attack should not be hitscan either. So its almost exactly like the Dragon's fireball attack. 
Some Ldmg Clearance 
I've been tracing the charge_attack to see what is going on in that pain limit score.

There are several statements that relay on it, starting in the fight.qc.
So whenever an attack takes place these args come to order, independ of the monster.qc.

void() ai_melee =
{ldmg = (random() + random() + random()) * 3;}

So every attack starts with ldmg = (* 3).
Further on

void() ai_melee_side =
{ldmg = (random() + random() + random()) * 3;}

So it is one or the both.

In the monster.qc itself attack_ldmg is stated as

void() lcapt_bite =
{ ai_charge(25);
ldmg = (random() + random() + random()) * 35;}

This second addon_ldmg in this case makes ai_charge 3 + 25 + 35 =
(* 63).
Later on in the attack_frames it is possible to add a comment like

void() lcap_atka7 =[ $atka7, lcap_atka8 ] {ai_charge(14);};

what declares there are 14 * ldmg on account extra.
The limited ldmg the Captain brings in atka7 is (* 77).

This all goes well to know that, if the attack takes place, it results within this outcome.
What happens is that, when I want to make a statement with a missile or laser attack, I can't clearly comment what the charge attacks are.
The wizard is not really using a hitscan, nor stratos or sacrof.
It is the ldmg a laser can offer, and that part of the code is unclear to me. 
madfox, I noticed that the chasm scorpions skin is messed up, and the scorpions also do their melee attack out of range. These problems were not there before. 
Uv Scaling Factor 
The disordered skin was due to the uv scaling of the models.

- Addon of the floor/ceiling textures, animated switch tex (how to toggle
it on and off).
- Added a grey piggy, slightly stronger.
- Wacked with the Phantom code, strange its projectiles sound at start of launch and not at destiny. Kinky monster.
- Fiddled a bit with lightning and fog.
- Adjusted the grenade launcher, but it blows up the game with missing h_scor.mdl, which is untrue, because the file is right there. Will be the launch attack error.
- Made an end exit with the Iris Door from AzrKnight. 
What about the scorpion's melee attack? it seems to be that old lionman problem.

Did you disable infighting for the chasm monsters? seems that the mong and stratos no longer infight.

You shouldn't touch the grenade launcher. That is one of quake's unique weapons with no counterpart in chasm. Just add the chasm weapons. I have enabled the weapons cheat in that joker saved game that I gave you, so you can check how the weapons work. 
madfox, you added a grey pig, does this mean you can make the small Sphinx, Scarof, and Phamtom a different color?

I would suggest separating out the weapons and the monsters. Get all of the monsters working correctly first, then do a release. And then work on the weapons.

Regarding weapons, one thing you need to keep in mind is that the Volcano gun does not act like the nail gun. It is hitscan. so it is more like a rapid fire shotgun.

The super nail gun, the grenade launcher, and the thunderbolt are unique to quake. Don't change these three. 
A La Mod 
does this mean you can make the small Sphinx, Scarof, and Phamtom a different color?

The grey pig skin came with the chasm models.
It's easy to change the skin colour as long as the original one is present. Taking the same macro.qc with some addons make it stand apart its twin.

What happened with the scorpio skin was a mixed up uv filter.
It seems to be a regular error compared compatibillity with other engines.
But it won't help a bad skin like Joker to get better.

I didn't disable anything what infight concerns.
I just changed the details in the map, and worked out the Vikingman crash h_scor.mdl bit.

Weapons, right. Not sure if I understand right.
You want no quake weapons in the mod, or
you don't want no chasm weapons in quake?

By the way, thanks for the notable advice and testing all along. 
Regarding infighting, the mong at the beginning ignores the stratos totally even when he is hit by the stratos. So there is something wrong with Mong infighting.

You should port chasm weapons into quake, but don't remove supernailgun, grenade launcher, and thunderbolt, so there should be 12 weapons total when you are done.

The model you use for grenade launcher is actually the chasm rocket launcher. Chasm does not have a grenade launcher. 
Also, there is no point in having a grey pig that is slightly stronger than a regular pig. Might as well make him a midboss. Make grey pig same size as shambler, 1500 Health, 60 melee damage per hit. 
Also something wrong with the Gross' lavaball, it now looks like it is coming from his hand, but it does look like the lavaball hits me at all. The correct thing should be the lavaball coming from the gross's hand, but flying towards the player's center. 
something wrong with Goblin bounding box, other monsters don't infight with it. 
How is this going Madfox, did you manage to get the big Phantom's attack to work? 
Not coding at the moment.., looking for a way to get worm going. 
That should be easy, right? Make a room with the Heart, then place a teleport on top of the worm. The worm does not move anyway. It is just a rip off of Shub 
I Know, But 
making it happen in a last end screen with text is something diferent.
Anyway, not actually to the point what modelling concerns. 
Okay, some other stuff regarding the joker and the skeleton.

The following pose is not used for the skeleton in chasm.,94529/

The Chasm skeleton also does not get knock down and get back up again.

also, your skeleton is missing the head butt attack.

The Joker, however, does get knock down and get back up.

These are all the issues with the Joker and the Skeleton.

I noticed that you managed to make the Skeleton's knees look better. Congrats! Hope you can make the Joker's handsaw look better. 
Good site for reference.
There are some pix of the Editor. What should cause the Editor to appear only for a quart on screen? 
I got the editor working in DOSbox after checking out on a win98 computer. That was what I was searching for.

Now I've made my map, saved it well, crunched my way to the Processor way path for events and could only save it on a 30 map, as the cursor damned to change the number.

Now I want to play the map, but every "GO 30" won't respond to the call.
Why won't Chasm play my map? 
I think go is just a cheat code, maybe there is another load map command. 
I can't play the addon1 levels.
After some searching I end up with an argument to change dosbox:

edit dosbox.conf in notepad and relace after "@echo off" below
chasm.exe ADDON:(usermap) -safe

won't work. No way to get access to maps beside the standard, so I wonder how to play further than "Go 16". 
chasm.exe -addon:addon1 
Never thought I could get it working, but hey .., it works!
Where are all the other Chasm usermaps?

Thanks chedap, it´s another console use then quake.
Good to have some extra maps to explore. 
Chasm does not have any user levels, thats why porting the monsters to quake is a good idea 
How Can This Be? 
Is it the rude mapping technic or the lame interest? Normally I'm wild for games with editors, although I could never aim a Doom or Unreal1 map. 
Lame interest, chasm has good models, but the engine sucks, thats why the chasm monsters and the quake engine need to be together 
Won't Give Up 
let's try another chasm_disk 
Husseled a bit with the chasm start map and could load it in the editor.
I've been able to add changes to the map.
In game I came to another levelstart
I think it would be better if you changed the dino skin back to the green one.

Does the Joker's handsaw look better now? 
Changing skin isn't that hard, as long as the uv flipping won't harm the performance like the spider had.

The handsaw border skin is very obvious, I can change the shape but not the skinfile, as it starts scrambing as soon it passes the line.

I'm left with two things.
I can't give skeleton three attacks: bite - sword - shout.
For some reason I can only add two attack codes.
So a bite attack for shout will only act on close range, which is no solution.

Joker will regenerate like a zombie?

I have deadguy with a floating light attack for shout.
Also changed the deathpose without head.
How to make it go throwhead in the first deathframe.

Sounds delay on a horrible way. 
Remember I gave you a joker and a skeleton saved game, so you can use those for reference.

But I think that the Skeleton's attacks are the same as the goblin. The goblin has four attacks, left arm, right arm, head, ranged attack.

Joker does not regenerate like a zombie. You see how sometimes an ogre gets knocked on its ass by the shotgun? it is like that. 
I "morphed" the deadguy's shout for a launch attack with no missile object. In this way it looks as a shout attack with a light trace.The others are just bite attack.

Skeleton has a sword attack launch an two bite attacks. Hard to add the another shout attack, as there is only one launch function. 
While playing with the minor chasm monsters it comes to me that they are rather chanceless. When their pain poses are larger than four or six frames the time a player can shoot them is almost enough to kill them before they can recover.

So Joker or skeleton are relatively weak as they have 8 12 and 14 pain frames.
A player can launch four shots in 1 second so when they are aproached from behind they are killed instantly.

Giving them more health in return is a bit lame. 
As close as I can JokerSaw
Can you move the square so that it is attached to the Joker's arm diagonally? 
Just tested the Skeleton in Chasm. It has four attacks total. Two sword attacks with its right arm. One bite attack, and one ranged attack. Any other attack is not used. Like I said, it has the same number of attacks as the Goblin and should not be a problem. 
Regard the Chasm monsters, don't worry about pain state's length. It is a problem shared by Ogres and enforcers. A single enforcer isn't a threat, a group of enforcers is. The chasm small monsters are meant to be used in groups anyway. 
AD has a sawblade in the progs folder (trap_sawblade.mdl) i think it is from one of the official mission-packs.

You could resize it to fit in the Joker's hand 
I could reposition the saw diagonally.

When I use another model to merge this skinfile is so obvious (64×968) that it's ruined with every attempt. 

- Changed Deadguy death pose.
- Rearranged Joker death/ regenerate in paind frames and handsaw.
- Not repositioned yet. 
Skeleton is pretty good, only thing missing is the head attack.

as I said before, this pose is not used in chasm itself,94529/

All the problems I mentioned in post 351 to 354 are still there tho. 
Yes., it were the old bboxes. I think it's solved now.
Repositioning the saw gets queer in other than commen poses.
I think he catched a cold. :P

Why should we use poses that are not in the original game?
I could give the joker a spellmaster gig. It uses its arm to range, could be a backtrap spell. 
You should make a version faithful to chasm first, then if you can get the spell attack working, then use that for a Joker boss. 
The mong still ignores being hit at all. This is not a bbox problem. I think you need to restore an old version of the mong, maybe version 2.17 
I only tested Faust and Goblin. They seemed to have good infight.
What Mong concerns I can't get grip on its behaviour.
When all have left fighting it is the only one left behind.
Can't make a thing of it. Needs a kick-ass.

With file 2.17 all attacks were scrambled with hitscans by ai_charge.
I had to start over again. 
Then use 2.16 or earlier, the mong's infight work fine back then 
- Returned Montgrunt v2.13. Infight is better now.
- Joker with fist repositioned handsaw. first stage.

There seems to be no change in Mong behavior. Check if a mong will fight with a enforcer, and check if a stratos will fight with an enforcer. 
Can you give sacrof armblade to joker? 
Given a chasm/quake.mdl is strictly bound to vert/tris count and skin seize.
I can create a new skin, change the pattern within the mdl file, but that's about all.

It's possible to merge an object into the excisting one by cost of doubling the skinseize. (original + import = 2). Shrink the merging object as small as possible, but still the whole skin file will be lashed.

I've studied the error with Mong, and something strange come to me. MonGrunt has the exact the same code as the Enforcer, with altered launch function aside, but in game they won't hardly have infight.

If I take two Enforcers, they won't attack eachother either, so I think that is what's happening. Code wise it are identicall monsters, so they won't have infight.

The last string I could find is in:
void(vector org, vector vec) GrunLaunchLaser =
if (self.classname == "monster_grunt")

If Enforcer has the monster_enforcer code here they will have infight. What happens is that Mong will give an attack, but then quickly starts hunting again. Unfair, as its health of 180 fails enforcer's 80. 
Madfox, not sure if you understand me 100%, but the joker's handsaw is a like a skin. The only limitation is that the edges must be straight. well, the scarof's sawblade can be straight edged and not look bad. maybe you can try to make a Scarof blade with the skin file, then shrink it and attach to joker's arm.

Regarding Mong infighting, what if you replaced both the mong and the stratos with the version right after the boundbox bug was fixed? I remember mong and stratos infight worked fine back then. 
dev2.15 is the last where mong has a kind of infight.
Bad is that it isn't that easy to copy all files back, because all errors with stale frames are back again.
There is no difference in the mongrunt.qc or fight.qc so it stays a wonder to me. 
I've gone back to dev2.09 and although in that map mong seems to infight, as soon as I use the dev2.09.qc and try it on a map there are only mongs that react with a counter attack, but then run blind to the player.

I get a bit irry about this stupid error.
I wanted to make chasm monsters work in quake,
not why they won't fight eachother. 
You Shall Not Chasm In Quake 
A bit hillarius about the mong accident. I think it's there but it is a small error compared to the things that work well. :P

Anyway, this is as far as I have come and I know there are attack scenes that could do better. But I'm no coder, as good as I can do.

Here's is the latest map, I didn't change much. I deleted the Grunt_check_Attack in fight.qc after I saw it make ingame fights. But they are much to obvious. Not ment as a truely counter attack.

what about using Quake Grunt code instead of enforcer code for the Mong? 
How come the mong fires a little arrow now instead of the correct attack (shotgun)? 
I've been trying different attacks for mongrunt to see if it changes the infight.
The original code was the quake grunt, but soldiers don't infight eachother.
The small arrow is the frame of the animation becausw I switched the code to enforcer.

Not enough to make it more alert, which is strange because the other chasm monsters with quiete the same code have no trouble with infight. 
what code is the alien warrior based on? The alien warrior is one monster that never had any problems with infighting. maybe use alien warrior code for Mong? 
Most chasm monsters are made up by altered enforcer.qc.
The little arrow is the goblin code used for the mgrunt.qc.

The longer I change the attack code for mgrunt, the more I come to see that this isn't the cause of the error.

All other chasm react the way they should do with enforcer code.
Only Mong seems to be the exception that won't relate to the infight code.
If it would be the soldier/grunt attack it would be clear as they don't infight eachother.
But whatever attack code I give to Mong, after one or two counteracts he just stops, as hunting player_target is prior.

I see no reason why target = self.enemy; only leads to player attack, and not on other monsters. 
Perhaps IW or qmaster can step in and fix this infight error again lol 
look at the code of the AD shotgun enforcer? 
I changed all references to grunt into mong to assure there is no relation with grunt or army whatever.
The only way to get the buck go infight is to delete its melee attack bite, then 25% change it goes infight.

Let's call him JackPotMong! 
what bite attack? Mong only has punch and kick melee attack 
But they are ordered with an altered dog bite attack which is split up in punch & kick. 
so the mong no longer punch and kick? 
Not So Fast 
I'm just testing why the mong won't infight. Deleting as much attack statements may show why it won't leave the player alone and concentrate on other enemies.

Mong has two attack scenes, bite that is used for push and kick and the shoot scene.
Placing an army and mong in a map the infight always goes one way. Mong gets shots, fires one or two counter attacks and if the army soldier would not interact it wouldn't fight back at all.

So deleting the bite attack would make it only survive in the shoot attack. In that case it would have the exact code as the army guy. And they should fight eachother.

Just don't get it why mong is so concentrated on the player, leaving other enemies out hand. 
The failure is a bit hillarious, because I made a mong soldier with exact the same animation frames as the army soldier.
In this way I could give it the same qc as the monster_army.
Mong stays lame. 
It might be a retoric question, but after all this time I use quakspasm I haven't been able to add rain. I can't find the right plug to do so and no way to use the right parms.

Is there anyone who could hand me a reasonable argument for this? 
maybe look at Abyss Of Pandemonium? 
The quakespasm thread had the particle.ref file, but the link is death. 
I think you should release the mod in the following order: Monsters, weapons, then finally the maps if you convert them. The monster models were always chasm's strongest aspect, and the maps the weakest. 
Goose Chase 
I recoded the mong soldier for better infight, but it seems hardly have any outcome. Maybe I should be content with a counter attack or two.

If I'm right there is only the attack of the end bosses now that need to be more accurate.

There is another issue, you need to figure out why the rockets and the sphinx fireballs do not explode. 
I think the use of the own sphinx sound of explode gives the impression they don't explode.

What I have is the Faust, Viking, Gross and Orc all trhowing enemies have an explosion, but the straight line to the player is converged aside. 
Love This! 
Nothing much to say, but I love that you guys are working on a chasm mod. I was messing around with what you have already in TrenchBroom a bit. So cool. 
So the monsters are pretty much done other then the mong issue, and Phamtom, and the explosion issue? 
@xaGe: fine to hear! Do you watch the map in Trenchboom or are you planning to make one of your own?

@yhe1: I'm still surprising myself about the mong. After working with all kind of quake models he is still on top of my list. Never engaged such behaviour before. If I had to code him the way he refuses infight I couldn't have used more time.
The straight lines you want it to attack is something my qc is struggling with.

I think the explosion issue is that the chasm sounds I used are much lower in volume than the ones quake uses. I'll reverse them. 
I'm using a copy of your test77 with my fgd I made for chasm_dev in TrenchBroom. I realize it's dev and things can change, but I have about every monster in, working on adding the rest of the items you currently have.

I've also added my own spin on the qc and so far have only plugged in Joshua Skelton's misc_model support so mappers can add their own models and sprites, animated or not. 
Chasm / Quake Wad 
That's quite an achievement! I work with Radiant1.5 and have to add the entities by hand.
Good to see you have found the right workaround for it. So the chasm.wad file will also be on its purpose.
I have made two uploads to quaketastic. One with the usual textures and one with the tga files, which are the comments chasm.wad.
I tried out to see if it would be worthwhile to make an extra texture file with the original wad, but couldn't find any difference in game. 
I work with Radiant1.5 and have to add the entities by hand.
If you mean by that, that you add each one individualy via the entity inspector, i could create a .ent file, if needed. 
I Will Go Grab Those Now. 
Thank you for letting me know about the wads. I sent you a few messages on Discord Madfox, but from the looks of it, you don't use that much. :) 
Before The Wadfather.., 
@_wakey: it would be welcome, I hardly had timegoing mapping for Chasm maps. It could help future attempts, or others.

I have mainly been busy processing the chasm entities in a qc file. In order to have good terrain for this, I copied the first chasm folder. The first thing I came up with is that the wad file is slightly different from Quake's. Mainly in the yellow and pink colors. What I did not succeed are the textures with transparency, which there are still a lot in it. In the end I decided, just like with an HR texture, to add the original chasm tga files. In the game itself I don't see much difference, but when I look at the comparable colors of for example the skin color of the joker, I think it can be done much better. Quake simply has such an obscure range.

@_xaGe: you can find it in the quacktastic/texture files. As the quake.pal and the chasm.pal are rather different I decided to add a tga file with the original chasm.wad colors.

And Dischord. It could be me, but I can't last five minutes on that site by constantly refreshing the page.
It just upsets me, and that's even exaggerated for my actions. :P 
You could have done what the commercial mod Malice did and just use it's own custom palette in quake. The downside to this would be if you used any of the many quake wads available to create maps for chasm_dev the colors would be off.

Looking over the chasm00.wad I think the conversion choices you made to the chasm textures over to the quake palette look plenty fine.

It's been a while since I played chasm so I am right now via DOSBox for inspiration. I'm looking through the cell texture assets and other stuff too. I keep forgetting chasm came with a map editor, might try to run that later too. 
I don't think the colors are currently that far off or ugly, its just a little lighter. The mong's infighting is the bigger issue lol 
Initially I thought it would work the same as with HD textures. Just place an extra subdirectory with the (chasm.wad) textures and they would be used in game. That way it would preserve the quake.wad and still use the original chasm.wad.

I tried several ways to see but there was no obvious difference. It looks as if the extra textures are just neglected.
What I do concern is that I see no way to get the transparent in game. There should be a workaround for it using bmp to add an alpha channel.

I got the chasm editor working, but it has a real tacky way for using it. I'm not familiar with doom editing customs. But it works, although working in DOS Box is a bit cranky.

And Yeh, that mong. I'm still surprised you captured that buggy, yhe1. If I had to code it I would be as narrative as he is.
Still crunching on that infight. 
Yeah About That.. 
Chasm editor is a PITA to get to run via DOSBox so I gave up on it. It was out of curiosity more than anything else I wanted to try to run it.

I've been converting the chasm static models objects I don't see in your chasm_dev yet. There are many in the game that are used as map decorations. Any of them will be easy for the mapper to include in there maps with a misc_model entity so not every one of them needs to be defined in the QC. I am only converting those that can't be done with mapping brushes fairly easily. Those static game models that can be made from map brushes I am extracting their textures to make a wad for the mapper. 
And External Textures Load Fine For Me. 
They are loading. 
Also About The Transparent Map Textures... 
I know how to convert the chasm textures with transparent parts over to quake. So I have been doing that. 
I have no idea about pita. If you're using the original game, there is a file called CSM_EDIT.exe which turns on the editor in dosbox. Then it takes some intuition to make it run.
editor game play

Most static models I have gathered but only used the ones in the first map. Some I remade as the buzzing flies didn't move, or the turning_walls had to have a framed model.

I'm really looking forward to the transparent textures, as they would make a lot of the premade statics unusefull. 
I've been busy. I have done a bunch of things.

Only this to show right now. Made these along with others from chasm model textures. Example:

I don't use these forums much madfox, but I left you messages on discord if you ever log in there. :-) 
Madfox, did you make any breakthrough with the Phantom's attack? 
He Is In Ai_cafe With A Milkshake 
I'm still searching in weapons.qc attack. Aiming the player versus spread attack are quit different parms.

Let's invite a helicopter to leave, like the start demo of Malice.
I think the Quasm name is already used.
I made some new additions to the attack scenes by moving code from the monsters to the weapons.qc.

Faust and Gross made a progress. LCapt with its double shot ruins to colapsing. It gives my screen too much debris and squeeks all sides.

Sacrof falls in a half death pose, noreason why. Its larger version with the same code runs fine.
They also won't react to a target function.

And no, I can't create a parallel attack,..yet.
What about the Faust's rocket? does it explode now? 
Chasm sounds are not as clear as Quake. They are delayed and roll after eachother. Also the sv_starts oud keeps warning.

DeathGuy looks better now I changed its death pose. L CAPTAIN ruins the screens with its attack. It causes so much debris the screen collapse. 
No, change the alien captain back to how it was, in Chasm, sometimes it could even fire six shots from each arm. All you need to do is change the lasers from orange to green.

so the mong is infighting with the Stratos again. Nice. 
Al captain works fine now, five double shots in a row. Six times is a bit much for a five frame attacks. Enough to get killed in one range.
Phantom remains, but I think I have a solution for it. 
How does an Alien captain vs Shambler fight go now? If they are pretty evenly matched, then it would be good.

The skeleton is missing the headbutt/bite attack. It is the same attack as that the goblin has. He also moves a bit too fast and his model sinks a bit into the floor. 
It is the attack time that counts in this case. They might have the same health, but by the time a Shambler launches an attack it already has five laser blasts from ElCaptain.
Skeleton is just fixed in its pose range. I haven't sealed it off. It's poses are a little shatters, reason why it's deathpose is scrambled. 
Shambler Wins! 
- Returned MongCheckattack.
- LCaptain double fire range.
- Fantom with spread attack.
- Deleted chmbat and lizzard.

It seems like the mong will react to a kick by a stratos, but not a ranged attack. Could you check this? maybe you can solve this infight bug once and for all.

Nice to see the Faust's rocket explode now. It should be the same strength as a ogre's grenade.

Also remember that the sphinx's fireballs should also explode, just like the faust.

Why did you delete the lizard and the chasm bat? The Lizard is a fully functional monster, and the chasm bat's model should be used for the Phantom's fireball. 
the big Phamtom's attacks seems to work good, but the damage per fireball is too low. It should be 25 per fireball for a total of 75 dmg if all three hit.

Gross does not infight with goblin, check their code and bounding box 
Something is wrong with the Goblin's code, now even when I am close to it, it shoots me with its crossbow instead of headbutt and punching me. 
I deleted chmbat and lizard because they don't exist in the original game.
I can give phantom a spread attack, but I use the hellknight code. If I use a missile attack it looses it's spread attack. A bit kinky to give a missile a spread attack.
I think the code of goblin is hussled, I'll check it out. 
I think there is a misunderstanding for the Phantom's attack. I am not saying changing the code or making a missile attack. I am wondering where this model came from:

and I am saying this model should be replaced with the Chasm bat.

The Gross' fireball should not explode, He throws rocks in Chasm, so the lavaball should be retextured as a white rock.

The Lizard is fully functional, it should be added back in. Who cares if it is not in the orginal game.

Regarding the small sacrof's corpse floating in the air. could it be because the game still thinks that the corpse is suppose to be big, like the large sacrof?

The large sacrof fires a rocket. I think you should give the small Scarof a grenade.

Can you give the Stratos double rockets? I want to see if it looks good. The manual said that the double ringed attack is supposed to be rockets anyway. 
One more thing, the mong never punch now, always uses his rifle even when I am close to him, so check his code. 
That model is the banshee I gave Phantom, although it had to be chmbat. I did so because banshee is better vissible than chmbat.

The melee attacks disapeared when I use monsters in weapons.qc.
Now they're back on check_attacks.

Who cares if it is not in the orginal game.
Maybe that is where the misunderstanding starts.

I think you aim at the both phantom's corpses in the air?
And no, they both are seperated by the
setsize (self, VEC_HULL2_MIN, VEC_HULL2_MAX); for the biggy and setsize (self, '-24 -28 -24', '24 28 56'); for the small one.

I can do the things you want to, but first let's see how far we have come yet.

well, since Chasm only has the big Phantom, I best course of action would be to give the chasm bat to the big Phamtom, while giving the banshee to the small phantom. This will also differentiate the two monsters.

Where did you get the corpses for the Scarof, Sphinx, and Phantom? In Chasm, when these bosses are defeated, they explode into gibs, leaving no corpses.

You don't like the the Lizard? That was the first model you converted, right? Just though its a shame to leave him out. 
In 2.38, the Faust's rockets no longer explode.

But since you got the explode rockets working, maybe create a missile turret? Quake base maps always lacked automated defenses. 
viking is short compared to Lion man, I think they should be the same size. 
It depends on the supriority of the both. As Banshee is more vissible I could give it to the small fantom.
Chmbat could be freshened up with a fullbright skin as this way it is hardly to see.

The corpses? I went to the local abatoir and, no the end of the death scenes I covered up by using the pain frame as a copy and slowly turned them untill the fell horizontal. Some scrubbing with bodyparts.

The lizard, yes. Let's say it was the only model I couldn't find in the Chasm file, although they used it in the viewer, so I tried it out in my own way. The result is a bit freaky, and compared to the other chasm monsters falls out of line, I think.

Faust's rockets no longer explode
Not sure what you mean, I can hear them clear.

Again, I hate turrits! It feels like a stupid fool banging that creepy fridge.
Viking was a bit bigger, only small problem.., then he looks over you.
Madfox, I made two videos showing the faust rocket bug

first is version 2.36

Next is version 2.38

You can clearly see the rockets exploding in 2.36, but they no longer explode in 2.38

Hope it helps you fix this bug. 
Some technical stuff:

Starting with version 2.37, the map becomes really dark, like this:

I had to use r_fullbright 1

and I thought you fixed the skins already?

with regular quakespasm, I get: 
Slip Of The Qc 
Thank you for your consideration.

It is indeed a dark level, I turned off the skylight to adjust the static lights.

As for Faust's behavior, in version 2.36, the weapons are embedded in weapons.qc so that explains why the missiles do explode. In version 2.38 I put the same feats in faust.qc with the result that there is now no explosion. I don't know exactly what this is yet, just that version 2.36 is not stable.

Somehow the previous texture formats ended up there. I have been too preoccupied with Phantom's attack that it has escaped me.

I will look at it. 
OK, just remember that the Scarof's rocket and Stratos rocket must also explode.

The sphinx's fireball does not explode, I remembered wrong, but you might want to find a better fireball for him, a rock does not look good.

Also, I think the Skeleton's sword projectile does not look good, should be some of skull projectile, the original is impossible to create in quake anyway. 
I Got A Litle Typo 
Just didn't see it what Mong distrracted from infight. It was very simple indeed, Shamblernaut. Still I had no idea after your message on discord.
I kept on going wit the Mong's run function that I didn't see the typo, as it was encapsulated in the sound message. ai_walk had to be ai_run.

void() grun_run1 =[ $run1, grun_run2 ]
if (random() < 0.2)
sound (self, CHAN_VOICE, "grunt/atk1.wav", 1, ATTN_IDLE);

Now it is running fine.
Thanks for the advice on this weary long lacking subject!
It was beyond my expectation monsters would infight,
always went for the full confrontation.

Check the skeleton and the goblin. They only use their ranged attacks.

and the Viking looks really tiny next to the gross.

I think you should start testing Chasm vs quake monsters again to ensure balance. 
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