Niiiiiice map Mr Glassman! Love the original id map influence at the beginning, a nice touch :)
Gameplay was cool and quite tough on normal skill which was cool, tho I did find myself wondering around a lot and not sure what to try next at the beginning, that was less of a problem when I eventually found the ways into the castle proper.
Lovin' it hard overall, q1sp returns YEAY!1
Glassman, this map is clear teh rawk!
played on medium,
there were fish though, so i think i got all the monsters.
what a great map though! so big, in brushwork and gameplay. not only that, but the paths twist and turn all over the place... i'd be going through corridors and all of a sudden pop back into a familiar place. awesome!
gameplay though... it was really tough at the start, because there was a major shortage of ammo... i dunno... maybe i missed something, but at one point, i was axing ogres and knights, so something was a little wrong... after i got the sng, ammo improved muchly. and so did the difficulty! jesus! it's amazing how hectic it got sometimes! i died a few times (all in the same spot), and i came real close another couple of times. sweet!
texture and architecture wise... i'm so glad someone finally made use of the rtgnosis textures. i took a shot at it a while ago but wisely didn't release the map. you did an excellent job with the textures nice curves in some places, esp. liked the ascending curved staircases.
the begining threw me off a little... i thought at first it was an -ish map. :) nice!
problems: well, gameplay, like i said, is hard at the start... in particular, the fight after getting the silver key outside, with the two vores was very hard. i died three times before i just settled for picking off the vore with the shotgun. (i only had 4 rockets at the time, so i used those on one of the vores. no nails)
there was also a place where you get one of the runes... the waterlevel is equal to the step height which looks stupid.
some other things i remember noticing, but i honestly got so caught up in the map, i forgot! :P
great work, glassman!
i like how everything fits together -- even though the path through it was very confusing, i got a strong sense that the map as a whole was very structured. Noclipping above the map confirms this.
With vondur's map and now this, it almost feels like quake mapping isn't dead!
Let me get my gripe out of the way first. There's an invisible barrier above the crenelations above the rune door. You can grenade-jump up to it, you can shoot through it, you just can't walk through it. What's that all about???
Other than that this was a sheer pleasure to play from start to finish. I LOLed at the e2m2 start, had no real trouble finding my way around (probably more down to luck than skill) and spent a lot of time just looking around and soaking up the ambience. I'd go there for my holidays.
I would say "this is the most balanced and best thought out gameplay I've seen since...", but as the next word would be "Nastrond" and that was only released a couple of days ago that might sound insulting so I won't say it.
Vondur, Glassman and Necros's sm52. What a blissful week this has been. :-)
You Know What I Think
so instead I shall ask that you finish up gm3dm1 :)
Absolutely Magnificent, I played it through on Hard, and it was a complete joy to play. Some outstanding gameplay setups, and looks fantastic, great atmosphere. We have been truely spoiled the last couple of days. Only if it would continue.
Glassman, this map took me 50 minutes to complete! That rocks! I love the maps with complex route and puzzle-like gameplay.
I've recorded the demo of my first try.
A pity i got killed (cratered, heh) when only 1 rune left. Had only 3 health and a couple of grenades. Was trying to jump somewhere and fell off and died :) But of course I managed to find the exit afterall. Very nice experience, Glassman! The design is dark and evil which is good of course :) Nice secrets, probly i missed one.
Here is the demo: http://vondur.net/files/von_gmsp3.dz
(1.7 megs zipped) (and 40megs unzipped ;)
Oh What A Map!
Played on hard it took about an hour but that was because I got lost in the hallways several times. Well I found the way out at last. 4 out of 5 secrets and all 172 monsters.
Thank you for a good experince on a lazy sunday.
What a week this has been! Who's next?
Ending was magnificent, I mean, all of those shamblers and vores :) LOAD/SAVE is a cool option tho ;)
Great architecture (especially the outside area, Vondur! that's the way you should do maps, bastid!), cool textures, excellent devilish-quakeish atmosphere.
And cool ideas. I was pretty scared when the floor fall down. Also, all of these rune-puzzles were cool.
Vondur, it's better map than your square one, mwahahaha, go awaey, kthxbyedie, moron.
Thanks Very Much Guys
Glad you like it :)
The navigation is a bit non-linear as you can get the 4 runes in any order you like although once you know the layout there is a more natural order to get them.
This does cause problems with ammo sometimes as it's difficult to keep the balance right not knowing which route the player would take. There are a couple of ammo stashes in out of the way places. (not secrets)
You do need to conserve ammo so don't waste it sniping at long distance targets - if you find all the secrets you will get up close & personal with all the monsters. The kill stats are:
Normal: 158 of 162
Hard : 172 of 176
There's only 4 fish.
necros - rtgnosis is a very nice set (and much larger than just these textures) but it was difficult to convert. The colours of the original stone blocks were more black but I made them the warm brown colour to fit with the quake palette better.
morfans - I think you mean in the central courtyard - the clip is to stop pesky grenade jumpers jumping over & therefore not having to get the 4 runes :)
I just watched your demo. I hope you don't want to charge me for boot leather ;)
I would like to know how you managed to bewitch that fiend in the first dungeon area :)
Here, no, but more health/ammo would be better :)
As for the fiend, well, that's just the experience ;)
Vondur has a way with Fiends....
Nice ambience overall, great gameplay all over the map (thought i could kill the last vore I found)...
I got scared on the floor falling down and the dogs on the elevator(I didnt expect dogs on the map :).
the only thing I dont like is the water texture... but that it just a personal preference...
I beta tested the map so Glassman already knows my feelings on it. Saying anything else would merely be for the benefit of everyone else, but there's already been much sp00ging so I won't bother to elaborate.
Great map. This is one of my all-time favorites.
This is definitelly one of best castle maps.
So it joins the group of my favs: Moonlite, Koohoo, A3 and Neh2m2.
And the water texture was cool for me, I liked that outside it's clean and refreshing water, but inside- muddy and dirty :)
Nice map Glassman. Had fun with both playing and looking at it, definatly one of the best maps I've ever played.
Only flaw was the ammo shortage, don't like killing Shamblers with an axe.
pr4(t1CE t3h aim1nG yu0 unsk1ll3d play4h!
I Hate You Glassman.
I hate you because this map is so beautiful, in all its gloriously ruined gothicness, with its (at last) use of the rtGnosis textures, its multipathedness, its hard-as-holy-fucking-hell, but-wonderfully-stocked game balance, but most of all, I hate you because you're British.
I take it all back.
Well, except the British part.
Great piece of work, Glassman!!! Glad there's still someone around that cares to put out such wonderful Q1SP!!! Ya rool!!!
This is quite possibly the best custom map I've ever played. Pure genius. Now for the love of God (or Morfans, he'll be more gentle with you) go make more maps.
I'm blushing. Thank you very much guys.
The ammo situation is a tricky one. I think ona second run through you will find the balance is good but, like I said before, if you take an unusual route it does seem you can run into problems. I guess I shoud have tried to be more 'modular' with the ammo/monster groupings so that each area was self-sufficient..or something.
This Map Was Released At The Right Time
I helped test it and ammo is in adequate supply - you have to play with caution and not waste shots at distant enemies. It is a cool strategy map. It is a good map to loiter in - to soak up the atmosphere. Don't rush this one.
This map is just perfect for the cold, damp, drizzly and sordid fall days leading up to halloween. It embraces the magesty and despair that is Quake.
yeah, i must have taken a different route. i didn't get the ssg until pretty late -- i had faced a few fiends with just the shotgun and nailgun!
a suggestion would be to put multiple instances of the same weapons on all the routes, that way the player is guaranteed to get it. no harm in picking up the ssg twice, just take in to account the ammo the weapons give. :)
/me trys to resist asking Glassman about GMSP2 and fails miserably.
So whats the story with GMSP2? :)
I will of course be posting a review of GMSP3 at my site very soon.
It embraces the magesty and despair that is Quake.
i like that.
necros - I'm not sure how you could have missed the ssg. I think thats impossible. Your idea in general tho is a good one.
uwf - gmsp2 is not definite to be finished; I may take out one map which is almost done & release it separately.
some people having huge framerate problems after the floor collapses : http://tenfourmaps.telefragged.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=498389
Might want to take a look.
Glassman, since everybody (including me) has been overwhelmimgly positive I'd like to expand on what I said earlier. I was going to send this to you in a mail since it's a bit longwinded but I changed my mind and decided to post it here anyway. Sorry everyone who doesn't want to read my selfish moaning. Also note that I'm trying to explain why I hated what you did so much, not criticize the rest of this superb map.
> the clip is to stop pesky grenade jumpers
> jumping over & therefore not having to get
> the 4 runes :)
And my answer is.. WHY?? You'd have to be pretty determined to find this way through the map. You can't get to this point to do the grenade jump until you're 2 runes and a silver key into the map unless you get there with some specific trickjumping, and if you were doing that you're probably trying to cut off huge parts of the map anyway.
I can understand you trying to make your map a "safe" experience and not have people accidentally end up in areas they shouldn't be. That's called good design and you executed it wonderfully: Huge spiky bars; walls that creak open once you've completed an area; HIGH CASTLE WALLS. But once all these sensible precautions have been taken why deliberately stop people's fun by putting in invisible barriers where people are unlikely to end up otherwise.
I played through the map twice as soon as I got it, once on Easy once on Nightmare, and was totally blown away. Then I started looking for shortcuts. I'd already noticed some cool slope/rocket madness at the end and played around with that for a while and found several different, very quick routes to the exit. Hard on Easy and impossible on Nightmare... unless you get the ring first. So I found a nifty way of getting the ring right from the start using a slope/gren and another gren jump... but how to link the two sections? Oh look a convenient castle wall that seems to go between the two areas! One more gren jump and YES! it leads right were I hoped! Then I tried to walk forwards... and couldn't. There was an invisible barrier that nobody playing through the level properly was ever going to meet and so I presume was put there just to make the whole map unspeedrunnable.
This really annoyed me (I was in a delicate emotional state anyway which is probably why I overreacted). I was sat there having spent the last three hours playing the map through and looking for tricks, quite prepared to spend another couple of hours building those tricks into a run which I'd have happily watched be destroyed by someone with talent when we added it to the ol' archive. And all this was shot down by one pointless "brush" or whatever it's called.
All this is very, very selfish and sad on my part. And it doesn't diminish the fact that this is one of the best SP levels I've played EVER. I'd happily buy you a pint if I ever passed through your home town to say "thanks for a great map", but I'd probably want you to buy me three back to make up for that one barrier.
There. Got that off my chest. Sorry for going on. I don't expect for authors to make runnable maps, but when they make a runnable map artificially unrunnable it... well, doesn't really bother me usually. But this time it did because the map was so good.
agreed with morfans here.
when i was younger mapper i also hated speedruns, cuz i thought they like ruin the long hours of map making with their shortcuts, etc. they rape the map!
but these were the wrong thoughts!
my main thought now is to make the map with speedrun in mind. because this way the map will live longer. people will play it more. usual players won't find that holes/shortcuts in the map because they lack speedrunning skills to reach some areas. but why not to allow speedrunners to jump wherever they want? let them play your map, let them be happy making records on it! let them rape it! :)
The problem was that the wall is so low that any moderately skilled player could hop over it and thereby miss out what is still half of the map (the best half too!). I could have made it higher but that would have blocked the view of the tower behind.
In retrospect, I wish I had redesigned the area so that the 'need' for a clip didn't exist.
I'll remember next time :)
Maybe, just _maybe_ you could make a version of your map for SDA without that clip? I'm pretty damn sure I'm not the only one from TeamSDA that would want to add your map to the grand ol' archive! :)
glassman: use a trigger_hurt next time and really get those bastards.
I agree with stubby...I wanted to add it to the archives straight away. I'm glad I waited since I had no idea about the barrier.
If you would remove it I'd add the bloody map myself to the archives.
Scampie: whine less. At least Shambler has the decency to be funny at times.
If It Makes You Guys Happy..
I will do another version - gmsp3sda. Just confirm to me that this is the only change required (beware that there are lots of other clips in the map due to the clipnodes > 32767 error occurring otherwise).
As someone who prefers good mapping to good speedrun-suitable mapping, I found
I don't expect for authors to make runnable maps, but when they make a runnable map artificially unrunnable it...<paraphrase>it sucks</p>
Sums it up exactly right. No complaint against Glassman of course, I just that line hits the nail on the head as far as the relationship between mapping and running.
uwf - gmsp2 is not definite to be finished; I may take out one map which is almost done & release it separately.
i would rather wait longer for an episode. but of course its all your call anyway.
'talented' speedrunners cry about a map becuase they can't run it 3 seconds faster, but I'm the whiner for making a joke?
/me remembers to seriously put trigger_hurts in his maps along with trigger_multiples calling speedrunners 'fag0ts' in all future maps.
Having triggers over all the shortcuts slagging off speedrunners IS a good idea =).
I've found one other thing, although it may just be me being lame.
Every time I go through on skill 0 I have one kill missing. And it's always that the shambler at 2088 936 1200 doesn't teleport in.
Maybe I'm just daintily skipping round a trigger somewhere but if not you could fix this at the same time. I'll check skill 3 later tonight.
One other suggestion since you're being so helpful. Don't bother renaming the map, just reupload gmsp3.zip to your site. It'll make no difference to anyone who already has the map and we'll put a note on SDA to ensure the .bsp is dated correctly before trying to jump that wall. This is especially true if the thing I mentioned above is true and not just me being a cock, it'll be a genuine bug-fixed version. :-) (It'll also mean that people won't have to rename their .bsp if they want to watch the runs. (If anyone does any.))
Ok that shambler on easy is now removed..the shambler was there but not the teleport trigger :/ I've put my Granny in a home for that..she was supposed to check easy ;)
Skill 3 should no different from skill 2.
awesome map.. I kinda suck at Q1 though, so still havent completed it. :)
I take it from the last comment your updating the map making things a little easier?? When you releasing this update?
... Don't Expect For Authors To Make Runnable Maps,
some months ago I mailed 2 beta maps to morfans (I think it was him) asking to test them in order to make the maps more speedrunner-friendly and usable at SDA. He said he would look but never mailed any feesback or anything.
I can't answer for morfans but I know we (i.e. sda crew in general) would definately give you the help you need...so send them to us?
scampie: You whine a lot. Maybe not in this thread, but in general (as far as I've seen on the msgboard). But hey, whatever floats your boat.
That was the necropolis map and the long outside map, yes?
Fairly sure I did reply to you, you know.
I am only intending to remove the offending clip brush discussed above & correct the easy run kill stats.
Died once when I teleported into the courtyard and all 3 Fiends hit me at exactly the same time. I also quicksaved & loaded several times to avoid tedious jumps/walkrounds (e.g. those damn beams). Thanks for the warning about ammo, I found it no problem through the map as I was being pretty careful earlier on. From what I saw, more to start and less later would have made sense.
Anyway, awesome map in every sense of the word. Reminds me an awful lot of the best of Unreal mapping which is saying something. Loads of interesting designs and mad use of the scenery. A real kick in the bollox for those who think Quake needs a fucked up custom engine to look contemporary - nope, some custom textures and good designs is all.
Errrr....edit That Capt'n.
nope, good usage of great textures and good designs is all.
Oh yeah, looks very speedrunnable too.
Top Rate Gameplay
and nice architecture, although a bit confusing at times due to texture choices and complex pathways. Some oldskool machinery also, platforms and cylinder passages a plenty without being overly frustrating.
Hard at beginning as mentioned above but survivable without axing (on Medium). Later the ammo/weapon supply was perfect, just in time when needed. Stats for me were about an hour, 156/158 and 5 secrets found.
My main gripe was the light level, which I thought was way too low. Maybe I should've played it at 11pm instead of 11am ...
After finishing off the last vore, I still had plenty monsters left so I went spelunking and found a hidden door that opened up a pretty large part with several monsters. I couldn't find any other open entrance, was this intentional or did I miss something? I thought it might be too easy to miss this nice area.
Overall, great map with lots of exploration and good and hard combat.
Mindblowing level. Definitely the greatest standalone qc-free map I've ever played. The way the all the rooms manage to fit together is incredible, taking into account the quality and consistency of the architecture. Anyone can create huge curved structures and rooms with practice but it takes raw talent to be able to weld it all together so seamlessly. And the lighting, jesus christ man.. getting the light levels absolutely perfect and fine-tuned on a map that size!? Now that just takes insanity. Icing on the cake definitely came with the innovative func_train usage.
Whilst it lacked the 'soul' of some of my old favourites (which I still rate higher purely because of nostalia factor) this is the nearest-to-perfect thing I've ever seen done for quake. Glassman, you're a freak, you're inhuman. I'd kill for a tenth of your mapping talent! Nice one. :-)
Thanks again guys, glad you liked it :)
Shambler - Undule's textures are excellent and were originally designed for Unreal so maybe thats where a little of that comes from and obviously castles are a big theme.
aguiRe - the door to the RoS area is one of the secrets. It can sometimes open by accident due to combat in the area so you might miss the actual door opening & yes 11pm is definitely a better time ;)
xen - the way I made the map was to design a regular castle. If you noclip above it you'll see its a perfect square with the 4 large rune towers at each corner. I think this lends a feeling of cohesiveness that you don't always get with a progression of rooms although the problem was to make a route through it seem logical (using gates).
Glad you noticed the lighting. I was mad to spend so long on it :)
The way the all the rooms manage to fit together is incredible, taking into account the quality and consistency of the architecture. Anyone can create huge curved structures and rooms with practice but it takes raw talent to be able to weld it all together so seamlessly.
That is a very good point.
Didn't noticed the obligatory "small but blatant borked" b0rked texture in this. Where was it you buggger?
I Couldn't Possibly Say
but theres an ogre with particularly nasty aim guarding it ;)
great comeback! really! shows how intelligent you are!
That wasn't a comeback. It was a 'stop being a crybaby dickhead just because I once told you in a completly differant discussion that you were stupid'. Now quit turning this into a fight and just get the fuck out of my community.
oh that's not it. It was me saying you whine too much which pissed you off. If you whine less and stop being such a cunt I'm fine.
So just chill.
Thank you underworldfan.
Incidentally, at the risk of appearing an internet bore, I have posted a few photographs on my website with more to come. Some may serve as architectural reference.
I Loved GMSP1
So I'm very much looking forward to this map.
I want RT-gnosis in top quality jpg or atleas original bmp
The Magic's Back
Lots of nice levels lately, sorry to not list them all, but I was starting to wonder if I'm starting to lose touch with the Quake magic. Surely I am partially, but this seemed to do the trick. Also very critically tuned on Hard.
(Actually i do need to mention necros' speedmaps, YES!, although that's not the magic either.)
A Quick Note..
..that I have updated my website with the new version, url as before. Differences are minimal as outlined in post #49. Therefore no need to download unless you are a speed runner. Thanks to Morfans for testing.