That was an immersive game. I dont think the narrative quite worked as well as it could have, but the gameplay was pretty scary. I think it would suit a doom style game. The RPG elements would help add an extra level of sophistication. Stalker is another example. The feeling of having to constantly maximise your resourcefullness adds to the tension.

I would also like Doom 4 to be a little faster. Faster enemies, faster movement for the player please. Just a little faster. 

game leads not level designers.
Inspirations:

Doom 4: Hell in Hell

Doom 4: Bad Day at the Office

Doom 4: Hell at the Bottom of an Ocean

Doom 4: Hell in a Temple at the Top of a Mountain

Doom 4: Hell on Venus (as opposed to Phobos, Earth and Maahs (tm) ) Think of city in the clouds... 

doom3 was ok. awesome tech, but meh gameplay (for me). what it needs/needed is/was more hell levels!!!

but is id now two teams? what bout rage? and why not a brand new game, instead of a brand new sequel? 

The Id crew knows that Doom3 was a let down, and it is probably a sore spot for them until a proper version of the game can be done.
lol what? best-selling game. They are fucking proud of it despite all the shortcomings (and what game doesnt have any?)
And if you watch Tim Willits vid, he even speaks positively about the Team Arena

than: ID has Nunuk. but I reckon he`s on Rage :P hence rage>d4 (stale franchise hahaha)

and bioshock is worse than doom3 (yeah flame on)
and frankly speaking nothing is scary when you have a gun. and quickload

<Friction> "in doom 2 the guy always wears a space helmet even though hes on earth"
"in doom 3 he never wears a space helmet even though hes on mars"
mind: blown

<Friction> Doom IV: Hell in Earth's Sewer System

Corporal Dean Portman: [looks down the sewer hole] I thought "being in the shit" was a figure of speech. (Doom movie) 

"bioshock is worse than doom3"

I'm trying to respect your opinions here but you're making it difficult. 

I didnt like how it looked, played and felt. wait 'didnt like' is not the right way to say it. I couldnt stand it! And nevermind that its a huge step back from systemshock

god knows I tried to like it. whole 3 times.
I couldnt drag myself past the second chapter (where you start to deal with the wee girls) 

I can respect your opinion.

I just think that the way that the actuall environment becomes incorporated into the plot is something which a modern shooter like Doom 4 should aspire to.

Like for example the part with the arty fella you have to kill, the one with the theatre. Rather that just being room-corridor -room-corridor, you have to carry out the tasks within the environment, with this guys unpredictable character controlling what happens.

Its pretty immersive.

I've never played System Shock so I cant comment on that :D 

"bioshock is worse than doom3"

I'm trying to respect your opinions here but you're making it difficult.

Well from what I've played of Bioshock, I easily prefer it to Doom 3, but they're very different games, so I can understand if you disagree.

Personally I thought the style of Bioshock was very impressive, and very unique. It's just very cool that they'd take the risk to make a game where the setting is Underwater + Art Deco + Future Colony, as opposed to the more safe, more boring route that Doom 3 took, which is Future Base + metal panels and pipes + Cheesy hell stuff. 

I can understand someone not liking Bioshock but to say that Doom3 was better ... dude, that's just crazy. 

Well, comparing Bioshock and Doom3 doesn't make much sense in the first place as they are rather different games, but I can easily see someone not liking Bioshock all that much, yet enjoying Doom3 a lot. Despite all it's faults and flaws, Doom3 is a very good game. 

 

The Id crew knows that Doom3 was a let down, and it is probably a sore spot for them until a proper version of the game can be done.
lol what? best-selling game. They are fucking proud of it despite all the shortcomings (and what game doesnt have any?)
And if you watch Tim Willits vid, he even speaks positively about the Team Arena

By that reckoning the folks who brought you those deer hunting games in the 90's should be beaming with pride too. Even the creators of Doom 3 have to know the difference between a cultural event that pushes their industry forward (Doom, Quake) versus a so-so game (Quake 2, Doom 3). 

"And if you watch Tim Willits vid, he even speaks positively about the Team Arena "

Not to state the obvious, but what did you expect him to do? Run down his own companies products? 

of themselves 

If you have watched those series of Warren Spector interviews with developers, they are all quite open to discussing their old games, admiting the flaws in design process, what they would change etc. Same thing Willits admits TA totally failed having sold like 100 copies, but he still thinks its a good and fun game.

Doom3 enjoyed good sales and good reviews, why would they think its a "so-so game"? Its quite polished - they did it the way they wanted (and didnt it take like 4 years). And they even started to do another horror game codenamed "Darkness" (sounds like a joke doesnt it).
Same for Quake 2 - its been the most successfull of quakes and has more coherent design than quake and q3a. Thats what ID guys including Willits said, not my guess. And he says q1 was a mess design-wise.

Can you find any kind of post-mortem or 'looking back' at doom3 from any of the devs? I cant 

you prolly know somehting of IDs opinion on their games that we dont, tell us plz 

I just think that the way that the actuall environment becomes incorporated into the plot is something which a modern shooter like Doom 4 should aspire to.


but Doom3 had that too

Wasnt it cool, where you see a scientist trapped in a chamber and have a choice of letting him out or activating the chamber to bake him (and if you save him he opens an armory). The monorail, telecom, specimen containment lab etc. Robo-arms, npcs... But all that didnt really change how the game played - and thats what everyone seems to care about most.
Doom3 is shooting in the dark corridoors for everyone. And if the shooting part - core gameplay - is not that fun the rest becomes somewhat less relevant, doesnt it?
Look at FEAR - very bland environments (even for the realistic ones they look dull), cheesy story, same cheap scare tricks. But it got fun combat - and people like the game.

Speaking of Bioshi.. er shock, just consider me allergic to the way it looks and plays ( and why cant we compare it to D3 - its a shooter in the dark. with audiologs :0 And I think doom3 borrowed some elements from systemshock too) 

I fucking hope so!!!

Speeds - Fair point :D 

you're pretty much right. doom3 sold millions, it cannot possibly be improved.

I'd improve it by not mixing survival horror and run-and-gun shooter so poorly. Slowness and darkness aren't appropriate when the monster and level design expect you to be Rambo, and that's where the frustration comes from. 

Just a tiny bit faster with the player movements.

Other than that I enjoyed it (it was a bit predictable, but I think doom is supposed to be!) 

Doom IV: The Infernal Heart

After the events on Mars with Dr Betruger, a man any German screener would've not trusted with such high level access, you were granted a return to earth, with a sizable pension and a moderate promotion. You saved their asses, and they wanted to pay you back - while still keeping you under their thumb.

But Hell wasn't closed. The big beasties and bad asses were beaten down, but the vulnerabilities were still there. Somewhere in space, a radio transmission is cut short. Somewhere on earth, a shadow clouds your mind.

With Betruger, Hell learned that even the modern, analytical human mind can still be swayed, even ensnared. It grows ambitious once again, and it reaches out to you. The flashbacks are terrible, especially when you're not sure if they really are flashbacks. People seem different. Company in which you once rested easy, you now unwittingly rest your hand on your sidearm, with a twitch you didn't have before.

Homegrown terrorism, you've read the propaganda, the fliers, but it actually happened. The ammunition depot on the edge of town lit up quite impressively, and all of the evidence points to one of your own men. Dead now, he didn't flee the flames... yet he was always a rather stable one. It didn't make any sense. But part of you can't blame him, part of you wishes you had the idea first... Hell has found a way.

DIV:The Infernal Heart is a first person shooter taking place in a small/medium sized town that shares land with a military base. Acts of terrorism have sprung up within the populace, just a few, but it has sown a deep seed of mistrust and paranoia. People are losing their grip on reality, faster than a community does even under such conditions, and you are starting to see things.

In The Infernal Heart, the player experiences rapid action and suspense, as Hell itself is truly invading, and corporeally manifesting, but for every foot it digs its heels into the town, it digs its claws an inch deeper into your mind. As the marine, you must make the decisions on what is friend and foe, and deal with your potentially worsening sanity while repelling the ever more numerous invaders, as this contemporary rustic place begins to gradually look more and more otherworldly, unrecognizable, fiendish, and designed for the sheer purpose of choking the life out of all it encompasses.

Main Elements - Typical demon killing action, exploring the changing city to protect citizens, and rescue survivors, battling with your own senses as to whether Hell is before you in that Imp, or in your mind, betraying the reality of a lost child to the barrel of your gun - take enough lives, you will eventually lose your own mind, and become yet another pawn to the fiends who strive for darkness.

In short, you have hallucinations, which do not increase generically but do so based partially on your exposure to Hellish elements for too long, and how many non-combatants you have mistakenly killed. All the while you do fight actual demons. Level design is realistic (though gradually more and more abstract) with overall goals in terms of surviving, finding resources, and protecting people (though no escorting, friendly AI could do that). The environment will change as you progress, and thus the element up to the player is maintaining their mind so that they will have their wits about them once within Hell (and not become a threat to the other survivors, who are not having their minds endangered in any exceptional way like you are). 

As far as I'm concerned any game's quality can objectively be measured in how (subjectively) good its fanfiction is.
If we look at id's track record with Doom 3; how many good Doom 3 fanfics can you remember? Pretty much none? Yeah! Doom 3 sucked.
I mean, how can Doom 4 hope to compete with such heavy-weights as Team Fortress 2? Just look at this!

(Sorry I'm going to have to split this into two posts due to this board's niggardly character limit!
Also, you have to read this with a thick French accent!)


Bridget Spy's Diary


February 7th
Ha! Ha! Had enough of emotional fuckwittage from Engy and decided to decorate his sentry with finger paints and pretty bows. Later heard him screeching like deranged Fay Wray-like creature while I hid in resupply cackling. HA! Am brilliant and inspired.
Saw friend Gay Medic up on battlements shouting at Sniper for stealing the last Milk Tray. Apparently Gay Medic has new Russian boyfriend by name of Fat Heavy, who is (obviously) huge and therefore fatter than me. This is good, as am collossal blubberwagon of epic proportion even though scales and mirror suggest anorexic Twiggy-like figure (?) Do look smashing in new Hugo Boss pinstripe suit in deep mauve though. Attempted to flaunt said suit to Engy, who ignored me and went on whacking away at his sentry like the oblivious knobbucket he is. Hate Engy. Emotional fuckwittage. Will go have calming fag and then seek counsel With Gay Medic.

1am: Went down to Intel Room for Bloody Mary piss-up w/ Gay Medic and found him shagging soldier on desk. Ugh. Is a slag. Probably doing it with demoman too. Will cross off X-mas card list.


February 8th
Have chucked copy of Pride and Prejudice at Engy's head in furious indignation as found him making kissy faces at sentry, clutching bottle of beer like hideous Nascar-watching lumbering oaf. Sulked in resupply room eating gallons of chocolate and Emmenthal cheese slices, and am now fat and Engy will never love me. Boo hoo. Am getting drunk on Chardonnay with Gay Medic because Gay Medic is only friend and understands my plight, despite being STD-infested slag and possible prostitute.

2am: wus joly gd toneite. engy emotuional fuwkwit and wil never talkj to him agen. woops. fellover.


February 10th
Valentine's is in four days and nobody loves me. Will inevitably end up as hideous crone-like madman living in cardboard box in Paris, weeing into a jug and getting anally violated by desperate businessmen for 5 francs a shag. Have decided to adopt air of aloof, handsome James Bond-esque sex machine and seduce Engy with my sophisticated charms.

3pm: Ha! Is working. Put on best suit and strutted through Intel Room while Engy was camping it out, brandishing sapper as Engy hates it for some reason. I do not understand this, surely Sapper is some sort of machine and therefore related to his area of expertise (?)
Anyway, ignored Engy for good half hour and sat on his dispenser inspecting my gloves and smoking fag, giving him foul looks when he tried to use it. Sod his stupid contraptions and their stupid beepy noises. I may be fat but at least am not cold, unyielding machine of death and unable to love. Figure must be horrible being sentry gun, always having to shoot people all the time with no room for personal reflection. Maybe sentry gun secretely wishes to be ice cream maker, expresso machine etc etc? Feel sympathy for sentry gun as it possible that sentry gun wishes for something it cannot have, much like me. Oh no, have thought of Engy again and now feel horrible. Will go stab some medics to make me feel better. 

February 12th
Was just having nice, relaxing evening in resupply when Gay Medic bursts in in floods of tears. Was right about him shagging both Soldier and Demo (ugh, ugh) and now apparently he is overwhelmed by massive surge of suitors wanting to be with him and sending him roses, chocolate, tiffany boxes and the like. Told Gay Medic to fuck right off as was enjoying nice bout of self-loathing about own sexual dysfunction, and didn't want to be interrupted by dirty slags in histrionics boo-hooing about how everyone wants to shag them. Interestingly, before he ran off to presumably hang himself, he told me that Engy wanted to talk to me and that I should ship off down to the Intel room ASAP.
Score! Aloof James Bond-type persona has paid off and now Engy is lusting away for me like the pathetic dog he is. Will laugh at him and pretend to sap his sentry. Ha! Am amazing.


February 13th
Huh. Hung around intel room for entire hour waiting for Engy only for him to march in half-dressed, fresh from shower, and bark at me for skulking around in his hidey-hole. Like he owns the damn place. No mention of previous unsaid engagement so assume Medic was being a cow and taking the piss out of me. Is diseased, lying slag. Was furious at Engy as had spent all morning practising my best pout and sarcastic one liners, so particularly enraged as could not exhibit finely-honed James Bond-esque persona - was worth it for half-naked wetness though. Will probably spend rest of sad, romantically defunct life recanting image in my head. Mmm.

4pm: Went to sulk on battlements after being shouted at by Engy and found Scout snogging Sniper. Ugh. Everyone is getting a shag except me, even Sniper, who I found last week with his nose in a pair of dirty underwear he presumably filched from the laundry room. Now understand why my pants keep going missing. V. disturbing.


February 14th
Ugh. Is Valentine's day and still have not been bent over desk and shagged roughly by Engy. V. disheartening. (Am pathetic and need emotional validation by way of sex.)

11pm: Apparently our shipment of new uniforms was mixed up in transit with a shipment intended for theatre company, halloween shop, creative harem etc as instead of uniforms we now have a selection of dresses. Have been forced into french maid costume by drunken Sniper for impromptu Valentine's costume party - obv. punishment for unkown sin in past life. Note to self: take up yoga for cleansing of past life naughtiness.
Sniper is wearing v. smashing Cinderella ballgown, though. Strategic slip up side of skirt shows off his calves.
Engy refused delightful Southern Belle ensemble to go sulk in Intel room with crate of beer. Typical. Had had better part of bottle of wine myself so was not of entirely perfect composure, so ended up shouting at Engy for being malignant pig-beast and spoiling everyone's fun.
Somehow, in magnificent blur of noise and confusion, ended up on Engy's lap with his hand up my petticoats. Oh-er. Apparently Engy does not think of me as fat incompetent cow at all. Demonstrated this by removing said petticoats - and my underwear - and growling in delicious low bedroom-voice that would cause even the most hardened celibate nuns to throw themselves to the floor and scream "TAKE ME NOW!"

In hindsight, may have demonstrated a little more composure as aloof James Bond-types do not squeak during sex.
....Must invest in more french maid outfits.