|Posted by - on 2004/01/13 00:18:13|
|Well, I've put off releasing this too long already... Speedmap site isn't ready, but it's so damn close I tells ya!
Anyway... A new release! A massive pack of 4 Single Player Quake maps built in a single week! And don't let their seemingly quick build time fool you, these are some great maps!
There were 3 authors who finished maps for the event, Hrimfaxi (who also submitted an older map he had which fell under the rules), Leviathan, and Zwiffle! Good work guys!
Download the pack here:
(Note: Hrimfaxi's first map is now updated to be a full vis'd version so it'll run better)
I know you want to promote speedmapping/turtlemapping etc but these great maps is a bit misleading.
Anyway, some comments.
q1tm3_zwiffle - too dark. I couldnt see most the time, when there was some light it looked ok. Didnt really play it all the way through because of the darkness.
q1tm3_lev - had potential. Starting outside area and curvy corridor were well done. In between it was connected with too many boxy, plain corridors. Lighting wise, this was the opposite of zwiffle's map, almost fullbright. Playwise, ridiculous base horde combat with a single shotgun is not my idea of fun.
q1tm3_hrimfaxi - this looked very promising but it was way too slow. I know about the warning etc, but I hope this gets released with a full vis.
q1tm3_hrimfaxi2 - this is pretty decent, some spotty lighting lets it down though. Nice blast and looks ok.
Sorry if it sounded harsh, but I was expecting a bit better given some of the reactions in other threads to screens etc.
That Should Be
"calling" these great maps...
in the first sentence.
A Full Vis File
I've just uploaded a full vis version of q1tm3_hrimfaxi to this URL:
You should replase the one from the pack.
Maybe you should update the packfile Scrampie?
That should be "replace" as if you didn't know.
was hoping it'd get a proper release.
very nice hrim, good atmosphere and fun gameplay. A few visual bugs though like non solid pillars and some corrupted flickering mappage when viewed from far away. The dome is very cool. Good map!
bleh, I'll remember to harshly crique each map next time I write a news update. I enjoyed the maps and thought they were a good bit of fun.
Updated the q1tm3.zip to include Hrim's now fully vis'd map, thanks Hrimfaxi.
As for my own feelings on each map, Hrim's definatly stand out in the pack... I think I like the second's atmosphere best, plus it has some of the coolest areas ever built in a Quake map. Thin little trims and neat supports, great stuff that you don't normally see in 'proper' maps nowadays.
Lev's map was really well built, but I'm not sure if I like the very bright, almost flat light. It's subtle, but works alright in an idbase setting. It suffers a bit like the other maps, forcing a bit too much shotgun action with too many monsters.
Zwiffle's map was just plain great, except at the very start when you have to fight multiple deathknights with just a shotgun. I thought the lighting overall was some of the best in the pack with some nice shadows, but had too many spotty areas of fulldark the monsters got lost in.
I enjoyed playing the pack, and appland everyone who finished. You guys rock. I think we'll have to do another turtlemap sometime early summer, but make it themed in some way.
Hrimfaxi's maps were probably tied for best in this pack, both were reaaaalllyyy great. His first one was superb aside from the already mentioned wierd nonsolid pillar, some solids that clip each other's faces, and probably the huge slowdown in FPS in the middle areas. A couple giant rock pillars in the middle of the lava could've helped keep those frames high, provided they covered enough. His second map was almost as great, the only thing that pushed it down imo was I liked the first one's style.
Lev's was... interesting. I thought of it as a shooting gallery that shot back, but would have been nice with a lightning bolt cuz of all the cells I collected. WOuld've been a better secret than the armor.
If my map looks kinda dark, it probably is because I have my monitor set on 100% contrast/brightness, and it's pretty dark on my computer. I'll try and work on making my lighting better.
Shame on all of you who dropped out, scampie included >:(
Redefining Greatness To Unimaginably High Levels...
Pah, not only are these levels, as Scampie hinted at, "best maps ever made", but evidently the "best maps that will ever be made". Truly taking Quake level designing beyond art, to some meta-dimension where quality, space, and time have no meaning (hence such releases of quality in such a short space of time).
Hrimfaxi1 - I can't believe there was ever any problem vising this map, your respect for the limits of the Quake engine, meticulous attention to detail, and unparalled build quality surpass superlatives. With such a sense of proportion and scale, I doubt there's a pixel - or a pillar - out of place.
Hrimfaxi2 - Another masterpiece of consistency and universal quality. Truly if this map was any better, both in the sheer elegance of it's design and the spiritual enrichment of it's gameplay balance, the whole Quake scene might collapse under it's weight. Expect to get hired very soon, probably be Epic.
Lev - Truly the gameplay experience of the decade. At once revolutionary, evolutionary, and yet deceptively simple, I hardly believe no-one has thought of it before. Yet if they have, they haven't dared to execute it with such finesse in a map of such enviromental richness, so you get all the glory you deserve.
Zwiffle - Lucky I had some shades to hand as I was nearly overwhelmed by the luxurious and vivid lighting in this map. Acentuating the architecture to a level of richness I didn't think was possible, Doom3's lighting will seem a poor comparison I'm sure. Thankfully finding those monumentally interesting secrets gave my brain some respite from the sheer glory of the design.
Shambler does it again!
Mm.. Thanks For The Maps!
My favourite was definitely Hrimfaxi's first map. The lava room and the dome were very nice big designs. My only complaint is the ending.. It should've been a LOT more grand in enemy amount and hall/place size.
I also made a 0:19 easy run for it :)
Hrim's other map was also good. Nice interconnectivity and some branching at first, and well placed ogres. But the first large area looked a bit bland. The castle walls really should've been more strangely shaped, have windows, bars (with some other texture) etc. instead of mostly just straight wall.
Lev's map was way too monotonous, both in design and gameplay.
Zwiffle didn't have any impressive rooms either, but the gameplay was good with enough ammo, variety and toughness. Though almost all the time one could just run away from battles. It was fun to play anyway.
You're a god. Release a full sized map/episode soon :D
Lev, why'd you have to go and ruin your map with such shite gameplay? I ended up using god/impulse 9 after the first room and even then it wasn't remotely interesting.. just packet overflow hell. The map itself wasn't bad though, decent enough architecture & layout... lighting could've used some work but it wasn't a bad attempt overall. The main area at the beginning definitely had potential.
Zwiffle's.. spoilt by the lighting. If it were brighter I'd have enjoyed it alot more. Darkness is good when used sparingly but it was a little too abundant here. It was well built though and the gameplay nicely executed.
Only thing I can fault with Hrim's is that the first one needed to have some kind of visblock between the main area and the outdoor bit with the caged ceiling. Other than that I thoroughly enjoyed playing both of them and can't offer much critique unfortunately... both very unique... i salute thou
Criticism Is Funny
isn't it funny that the harshest critics are always the people who never put the time and effort into creating maps of their own for other people to rant on?
as for myself, i have to wait till later to play these maps, but these guys nearly always put out maps that i can only dream about making myself
Hrimfaxi's 2 maps: unplayable. Even in the updated VIS'd one, had greyouts. Partially my fault - 150MHz, 96MB RAM, 2MB vid... I noclip'd through them both a bit and saw some interesting architecture, but really couldn't play through these without a wall of grey interrupting - or the slideshow.
Lev's: died once I just opened one of the doors after the BARRAGE of grunts and enforcers in the silver key room. All with the pea shooter. Bah.
Zwiffles: Way too dark, couldn't see anything until the ogre stuffed a grenade down my throat... some texture palette problems on the floor tex. Darkness could be my monitor, or it may not be.
I can't really say much about these - half was unplayable, one made me it's bitch, the other I was blind.
what? only mappers are allowed to have an opinion now?
Most of the comments have been pretty well deserved, none of these maps could ever stand on their own... but that's how Turtlemaps go. There really isn't a lot of time to be spent refining gameplay, or making everything perfect, and that's reflected in many of the critisms. And the authors are big boys, they can handle a bit of kicking around. They'll learn plenty from the harsh bits here, and I know all of them enjoyed creating the maps.
Hrimfaxi Is The Piper
Hrimfaxi's maps were both really good, visually and gameplay-wise. Weapons were great, but maybe ammo was a bit too abundant in the 1st map. Lighting around the dome area in the 1st and the main bridge area in the 2nd felt very eerie.
The dome was almost Myst-like in appearance, great cross-over. Only two technical niggles, there were many non-filled bsp areas in the 1st map, probably contributing to the long vis-time. In the 2nd map you could get stuck beneath one of the elevators.
Leviathan's map had me resort to god-mode. I don't do that very often, but fighting 200 monsters with no armor and just a shotgun was just extremely frustrating. The gameplay was really unbalanced and unfair. Too bad, because the map looked pretty good, curves and the rocks outside.
Zwiffle's had pretty interesting looks and not too shabby gameplay (although very repetitive with only shotgun for far too long), but lighting was ridiculously dark. A general tip on item placement; please don't put ammo or health in the middle of the movement area, especially not in places where you can't avoid picking them up. The map was also not sealed properly.
Some good and some not so good, but thanks to all for contributing.
One Thing I'd Like To Say...
in hrimfaxi2, i really like the way the "find three buttons" task makes you explore. Once you've found them, you also know where the gold and silver key doors are, which means later when you get the keys, you know where to go. The initial nonlinearity gives the player a chance to learn where everything is, so they won't get confused later each time a new path opens.
Where is my map not sealed properly? I'm almost sure I made all the brushes air tight and I never got any compile errors! Argh I hate missing these things!
Congrats On The Great Maps
All of the maps were great fun to play and all well built maps! Both of hrimfaxi's levels could have fooled me for full SPQ levels... The gameplay in Leviathan's level will haunt my dreams for a good year to come. Hope to see more colaborations like this! I'll surely give a shot at the next one.
If you load your map into an engine and noclip outside, you'll notice that you can't look inside; it's all black. This is because the outside of the map isn't filled (removed) properly by qbsp, thus making it more difficult for all tools and the engine.
If you now turn all fullbright in the console, you'll see that the entire outside is visible with textures and all, a bit like how it looks in the editor.
This is not the way it should look in a sealed map, then the outside is removed by qbsp and neither tools nor engine have to worry about it. Load up the standard iD start map and noclip outside and you'll see what I mean.
The reason why you haven't got any leak warnings from the compiler is probably because you're not using any of my compilers found at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k
. Older compilers have a lot of bugs in the leak handling and will just make it more difficult for you to troubleshoot your map.
just one question to Lev: have you played your map yourself ?
Truly the gameplay experience of the decade.
that's very wierd. I didn't have that problem on an older (or is younger? any case earlier) version of the map. I noclipped outside and everything was fine, I even took some screenshots of it. I don't know why it messed up this time.
Nitin: The two areas that did look good i spent a lot of time on. I was concerned about finishing it on time, so i dumbed down everything else. Regarding gameplay, i should have included the double-barrelled shotgun, i don't know why i didn't. For lighting, i had individually lighted everything, but i think i used a too high minlight value when eliminating dark spots. Although it is good to hear that people like the areas that i spend time on, this bodes well for future releases.
Scampie: I think the many criticisms about my gameplay will figure into future maps, i should refine my gameplay style a bit. Thanks for the build compliments.
Zwiffle: The lightning gun would have been a good pickup, i just thought it would un-balance the gameplay. I guess i was wrong.
Xen: I thought that it would make the map challenging.
Aguire: That's where beta-testing would have come in useful, had i the time.
Mapist: Yeah, i played the map through all of its incarnations, adding monsters each time. I wanted to make something really challenging. I myself didn't go below 50 health on any of my run-throughs, but a mapper's own work is always easier, so i thought by adding in all the health that it would balance out. Didn't work out like i planned though.
Thanks for the comments everyone.
It seemed like you'd just thrown in excessive monsters to annoy people. Trust me... quantity isn't a substitute for quality in that department. Better positioning is the key... giving it variety; at the moment it's quite boring to play, very repetetive without any highs & lows, or signs of progression. And it's possible for a map to be TOO hard, where people resort to cheating too easily... which happened here. There was some fairly good positioning in the main crate area which proved a challenge, but there was just far too much horde combat in between, which was both tiresome and hard on the engine. Hope you revise a little on gameplay techniques & improve for next time :-)
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