|Posted by Blitz on 2004/12/29 02:20:12|
|I was having a talk with Lunaran this morning about HL2DM and we both agree that the appeal wears a bit thin after a while. It's fun, but it's way too spammy on large games, and there are alot of one-hit-kill weapons, which I think is detrimental to gameplay balance.
The other thing is, if you try to design a map that doesn't have a ton of excessive debris to fling around, will people bother playing it?
We had a long conversation about some of the topics that I don't feel like typing out again, so here's a link if you're interested in a discussion about HL2DM design.
If you don't read it, I also bring up the idea of having a decent sized func_msg/#terrafusion game of HL2. My hope is that we can play a couple of fun rounds, and then have a bit of a discussion on potential map ideas...or if it's even worth pursuing at the moment. (I hope Valve releases some kind of proper DM map patch)
So anyway here is the thread to voice your opinion about HL2 DM and also to try and organize a game. (I know we have the multiplayer thread, but I didn't wanna mess up the neatness of it with all this)
#12 posted by Shambler
on 2005/01/15 08:56:15
Tried the following, going on what's being played and general recommendations:
dm_bounce - kinda nice style with an open area and jump pads, but looks like annoying movement throughout.
dm_casual - bit of city, bit of subway, reasonable size but on the bland side for design and feel.
dm_crossfirev2_b2 - very big, bland, arbitrary, annoying movement.
dm_dockside - biggish and squarish, nice enough setting, long distances to travel as usual.
dm_infiltrate - big bland, bright and boxy building business.
dm_lostvillage - square yet again, some decent outdoor styles, too big.
dm_lostisle - atmospheric and attractive, decent style and varied, not sure how it would play but I would give it a try.
dm_pit - unusual, Quake style, nicely done and a decent layout, might be a bit overscaled for HL2 speeds.
dm_revolution - good atmospheric style in a ruined city, decent size and well connected, not too open, would try this too.
dm_stalkyard - reasonable style for a warehouse thing, long distances as usual, bit big for me.
dm_substorage - same as stalkyard, some good styles in it but too large a scale and size.
dm_watergate - same as dockside but a bit prettier.
The basic features of most of these maps are: On the too big side, on the overscaled side (like, don't they know that sprint runs out?), on the bland side, and on the boxy side. None of them are really comparable to czg_hl2dm1 for interconnectivity, scale, or gameflow.
However, dm_revolution looks like it will come close in scale and playability, and dm_lostisle is a good size and a real nice setting. So next time I'm hosting, I'll have those two in rotation to vary things up. Go download them now rather than later (lostisle might also be lostisle_v1 or summat).
#13 posted by Shambler
on 2005/01/15 16:11:54
#14 posted by Vondur
on 2005/01/15 16:47:14
thanks for the useful stuff0r
#15 posted by Shambler
on 2005/01/15 17:00:20
That's just my views and all, feel free to check the shit out and disagree. But I think for map size goes, we don't want anything too big for #func games.
I'm open to suggestions, but would like to have some variety along with overflow.
#16 posted by nanoSpawn
on 2005/01/16 08:50:55
Just downloaded the two maps shambler suggested, gotta try those, since I would like to play HL2dm from time to time, and yeah, a nice pool of maps to play is always appreciated.
Btw, shambler, do you use HL2 dedicated server? we should try that out...
Following Online Testing...
#17 posted by Shambler
on 2005/01/16 12:36:30
Revolution is fine, plays pretty well and a fairly distinctive feel to it. Needs 4ppl or more though for most fun, 3 is just feasible but slowish. Worth sticking with I reckon.
Lost_Isle is still pretty pretty but unfortunately was hugely laggy online....will have to test this again as otherwise it would be fun in a different style, but at the moment it's unplayable.
#18 posted by Shambler
on 2005/01/16 14:58:59
Tried lost_isle again with just vigil, worked fine, no lag problems. Think it might have been Prodigy's connection assing things up before.
Anyway, pretty fun level, a bit different, some good long range business.
#19 posted by Vondur
on 2005/01/17 04:23:00
#20 posted by Shambler
on 2005/01/17 05:15:52
Nice one, looks cool from the shots, I'm really into finding something more hi-tech and less like ruined RL stuff. Will check.
#21 posted by Shambler
on 2005/01/17 12:29:50
Symetrical space map business it might be, but it's got a nice style and good lighting, so I will run this one. Looks good for 1on1, no tau balls, no RL, but plenty of XBow action. Nice to have some variety too, w3rd.
Direct download for you hoes:
Taking A Look At Those
#22 posted by ProdigyXL
on 2005/01/17 15:51:17
First czgs was the best of the bunch pretty easily. There was plenty of orginal brush work in there as well as thoughtful use of the models supplied with the game. Lost Isle seemed good enough. Running through it though you can see this map relies way to much on props to create detail and the brush work for the most part is rather tame and boring. Finally revolution looked rather lack luster. The layout is much larger than one would expect from a run outside in the court yard. I found the performance of that map to be rather crap tastic because in the courtyard there is a lack of vis blockers that can really dump your FPS. The broken wall models don't meet up with the face of the brushes well either and you can see gaps in some of the walls as well.
Overall I think the 3 maps that Sham pointed out do a good job of showing how props and models can really hide a mappers poor brush work. Which I guess is a good thing, but I can't help but feel that it can cheapin what we do as mappers. Thankfully czg's piece is an example of how quality brush work can be accented and be improved through them.
#23 posted by Shambler
on 2005/01/17 17:20:24
I'm not bothered about how a mapper created the work, I'm just bothered about the overall effect for both looks and gameplay. If a map relies on props and looks and plays good, sobeit.
I'm surprised you found Revolution slow-running with your uber-HUGECOCK machine, I had no problems.
As always, I'm open to suggestions of other good, small maps.
#24 posted by DaZ
on 2005/01/18 19:17:10
Not looked at the map, but the screenshots look quite sexy - http://www.thevon.net/
#25 posted by Zwiffle
on 2005/01/19 00:34:25
Yeah that does look good. Kind of reminds me of the Counter Strike construction-zone map though.
#26 posted by Lunaran
on 2005/01/20 14:36:15
I was just coming here to post that link. Ferret's a guy I know here at SCAD.
More Map Schizzle.
#27 posted by Shambler
on 2005/01/21 04:34:49
DM_void is good but limited, real nice style but the layout and map is very simple, however I do think it's good for aim and weaker weapons practise as there's no RL or Tau balls. Plus a variety in style. Max 3 pps.
DM_rebar looks good too, suitable for 3 minimum, good layout, good variety, good looks. Would go well in rotation with Revolution.
#28 posted by DaZ
on 2005/01/21 13:45:48
there are tau balls.. u can grab them from the light shafts with the grav gun :) have to time it right tho...
#29 posted by nanoSpawn
on 2005/01/21 13:56:33
Aww, so I failed misserably there, I tried to pick up those a few times, and never got lucky, so I gave up...
#30 posted by DaZ
on 2005/01/22 08:13:42
pwnd (trademark shambler 2005)
New Steam Update..
#31 posted by Shambler
on 2005/02/18 01:50:48
...with new DM map, woohoo!
As long as it's not a huge pile of corridor-based shite full of tons of random crap for the grav-gun and lots of awkward bits to snag on and shite connectivity, that would be great!
Wait a mo...
#32 posted by than
on 2005/02/18 12:16:42
that's exactly what I thought. Won't be playing it at work.
I thought there were supposed to be more maps in this update anyway? Oh well, I guess the next update will contain some more maps too... such as dm_overflow (I reckon, since I've yet to see a better HL2 user map.)
There is also a cs source update coming soon, although I can't say I'm exactly pissing myself with excitement at the thought of more cs.
#33 posted by metlslime
on 2005/02/18 15:07:23
/me pisses self
What About Russia?
#34 posted by RussoEnt on 2005/03/02 03:46:12
what do u think about Russia and russian entertainment web-portals?
#35 posted by Lunaran
on 2005/03/02 05:07:22
But I have questions about propane.
And propane accessories.
#36 posted by pope
on 2005/03/03 00:41:11
<mr lahey> propane propane propane...
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