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Accessibility To Maps
This is a discussion that may not have any easy answers, but a thought I wanted to introduce into the wild in a place where the issue could be explored.

One crime in single player Quake is the sheer pain a new player has in learning how to load a custom map.

First, the player must find out where to put the map. Second, the player has to type the name in the console like "map ac2" to load the map. The *only* engine that has a built-in maps menu to take that pain out is JoeQuake, and I might add it even finds maps in pak files and displays them separately.

The user-unfriendliness is a killer.

Here is a possible solution I want to introduce into the wild.

There is a mod called RuneQuake. The source is available and it is actively maintained by Slot Zero at and

It is available in both Quake and Quakeworld varieties.

It has been run on multiplayer servers for ages and is very powerful, easy to use and user friendly.

1. It can be run in cooperative mode with monsters.
2. It has an amazing "vote-map" capability with support for up to 200+ maps.
3. On maps without a sufficient number of spawn points, it will spawn a player somewhere else.

To see it in action, a recommended servers to check out are:



Type "custom" in the console and it lists the maps available. Type the map name in and it will initiate a vote for that map.

vb pointed out to me a list of Quakeworld servers at and there are a grand total of 3 servers running coop in the whole world listed there.

It seems to me that something that would be very logical would be a Quakeworld server running various custom single player maps in coop mode (that don't require a progs, of course, that would throw a huge wrench into things).

I think it would be a great way to expose players to single player maps without them having to do anything/learn anything.

It would be a totally lazy way for players to experience single player maps and they could "vote" for the map they wanted to play on the server.

There are a million server hosts out there, one server host that is known to do a great job and has a lot of experience with Quake/Quakeworld is and, for the sake of thoroughness, the contact email address there is chris ---at--- There are many good hosting companies, but I'm a thorough guy and wanted to provide at least one name for research purposes.

Anyway, I don't know if anything will ever come of this, but I wanted to introduce this thought into the wild somewhere that cares about such a thing.

If such a thing existed, I'd make sure a lot of players know about it. I've seen a post about coop servers at and basically, there aren't any.
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Since You Said My Name ... RPG ... 
Yes, it does have coop ability on ANY map, regardless of whether or not it has coop spawn points.

Keep in mind, the only types of maps that could run on a permanent coop server would be standalones. No custom monsters, no custom models .. anything that uses it's own QuakeC wouldn't be plug and play. (And even then it might not be completely plug and play, but should be pretty damned close in the scheme of things.)

Limits? I do know ... this is going to sound funny ... that I have played deathmatch on czg07 on a regular Quake server (not Quakeworld).

I could not tell you where the limits fall, but it seems reasonable to me that maps that aren't trying to set records, work with WinQuake, and don't use their own QuakeC should all be very plausible ... but maybe there are other limits in play I am not aware of.


It seems like without a whole ton of effort, it should be possible to make a server with solid maps like CZG's Doom-style ones and stuff like SM82 and Antedivulian, cherry-picked speed maps, and most maps that would otherwise run in WinQuake that you just toss in the maps folder.

Going outside that box gets VERY difficult and adds a ton of complications.

And your question about the maintain, the main benefit of it being actively maintained is that he does answer questions about it, can give you advice, can answer configuration questions and is very experienced. Customization/changes to the code is typically a "you are on your own" thing. He is a busy guy.

I hope that answered your question.

Connecting to those servers above (ignore the runes, they can be turned off) should be pretty enlightening and, for reference, the mod download location: 
Gateway Map

I can very quickly turn map screenshots in mass into great looking, Quake paletted texture files. I also have the ability to mass produce automated textures with map names in the Quake font.

A finishing touch, should something like this ever happen, would be to select a map of maps with screenshots and the name of the map above teleporters so someone could select a gallery map on a server, look around at the different map screenshots and names and then select the map they want to play.

I spent a lot of time automating the process and, in fact, produced such things for all the E1M1-E4M8 maps.

But not being a mapper per se, didn't have all the necessary time to finish a gateway map and being a novice, it probably would have sucked anyway being a first map ;) 
So, where do you get QLP? There does not appear to be a link on the page. 
Uhh, No Idea 
i thought this program has been released ages ago. i only wanted to use it as an example and didn't check for any dl link... 
'sa Shame... looked good 
I'm Using 
Thanks. Yeah, you did answer my questions. :) czg07 and other such maps will load on NetQuake protocol, but not on QW. Actually, now that I think of it, it might only be the server.exe that needs to be modified. It's been a long time since I used nb's fix, and I've forgotten what he did.

My main complaint with most QW coop was the lack of map voting, which meant you needed the operator there to switch maps. If RuneQuake can be setup to be just plain Quake coop on QW with map vote, that would certainly be cool! :) 
Do we have proper coop support in Quakeworld at all? Afaik it's still a mod that you must run in order for coop to function semi correctly.

Is it not possible to add improved netcode, dynamic progs switching, map voting, downloading etc. into one of the already heavily modified netquake (win/gl) engines?

I can imagine this being a huge job, but there is so much code out there that does half of these things that could perhaps be taken and used to create a special coop engine?

Progs switching is quite a big deal, because it would allow us to try coop in mods. I suppose coop spawn enhancements that add spawnpoints or delay spawns depending on whether or not the map supports coop (obviously, if it does, then this wouldn't be needed).

I also like czg's idea.

Imagine all of this stuff happening for QExpo 2006 ;) 
As Baker said, map voting is part of RuneQuake. Downloading is part of any QW engine. But what's this about improved netcode? What's wrong with the existing situation? 
The only half decent netcode is in Quakeworld, and to play coop, you need a modification (right?), which means it is impossible to play mods, unless the progs are recompiled to include the coop code.

Also, the best engine mods imho are the SP oriented ones, which have higher limits and more non-flashy features.

The netcode of netQuake is pretty shit though :(

But maybe it's ok on fast modern connections. I must admit I haven't tried playing netQuake over the internet since I got fast net access. 
Oh, Right 
I know DP has improved the NetQuake code, but my sense of propriety disappears when using that. 
Thanks for the link. I'm now using Spawn at the moment, which seems the best of what was there.

Having written my own compiler GUI I might even have a go at a Quake Map Launcher myself. 
There Are Still Q1 Players... 
who don't know how to load a custom map? where are these people? 
The NetQuake Option 
I've been reading through the thread and it seems like there is a strong sentiment to be able to use regular Quake clients (DarkPlaces, FitzQuake, <insert your choice here>).

That is incredibly easy to do in the form of a permanent server with map voting.

The downside is that it would require users to seek out a download outside of the Quake client, but depending on your goals that may be a better option.

And being from a primarily NetQuake, primarily multiplayer community myself (, I can tell you that there is no special advantage of QW if you have broadband, it is like playing on a LAN for the most part.

Any spikes or lag comes from the same unavoidable ISP route issues that give lag in Quakeworld, your computer acting up or spyware. It isn't like in Quakeworld you can connect across the Pacific and expect to not have lag.

Broadband has a bitrate capacity 20 to 40x higher than dialup, dialup players do significantly benefit from Quakeworld's improved netcode however, but dialup will still be dialup.

If you just want to have a coop server up for single player enthusiasts who are willing to do a download, that could still be very popular but a map pack would have to be assembled and hosted somewhere for download.

I just wanted to do some myth busting and provide additional information. There are some NetQuake coop servers, and I've actually tried to see if one of the servers would be willing to run custom maps.

I guess part of the reason I started this thread is because

1. I'd like to play coop on a lot of these maps, even the ones that don't have the right spawn points and the RuneQuake mod makes that easy. And I can tell you, it's NOT just me. Lots of people like it.

2. For those maps, you can just turn on "weapon stays" so the coop players can still get armed, etc.

3. Coop servers are more popular than you think, but the boring factor of the standard maps which is on almost all of them is a real interest killer.

4. I guess there just isn't anything as fun as shooting the monsters with some buds on a map you've never played before. That's why I suggested the Quakeworld option due to map download so someone could experiment and vote, and try something new and surprising without much thought or effort involved. 
I might add, over at, me and others have been seriously discussing what is wrong with Quake for over a year and coming up with ideas.

Admittedly, this more focused on multiplayer, at first but then I discovered single player.

There is actually a Doom II community with 3600+ members and I've always felt that is embarassing considering how much better Quake is than Doom II. I've always used this as a compare and contrast to demonstrate how poorly Quake 1 is managed overall.

Quake is outstanding, especially the single player part which for far too few is actually something they've tried ...

(Btw ... FitzQuake lacks a vital small code fix that is, if i recall, only a few lines long, fix that DarkPlaces, JoeQuake and a couple of other clients have. If you were to try to connect to a server with FitzQuake and use a router or a cable/dsl modem with routing capability, it will have problems connecting to the server and just sit there and say "Connection Accepted" with the cursor blinking)

Doom2 is a great game, and that is why there are still lots of people playing it (not to mention making good custom wads).
I don't see the problem with how quake is "managed". 
OTOH last DarkPlace engine is crashing when playing big maps in SP mode (e.g CDA...) when FitzQuake does not... Does it mean DarkPlace has only been developped to support multiplayer/coop mode ? What about single player then ? Come on... And don't flame FitzQuake here: this is THE engine... doh ! 
Well ...

1. There isn't a good coop server anywhere? You'd think with 300 Quake/Quakeworld servers, most of which are empty 24 hours a day, that there would be 1 good coop server running custom maps ;)

Or ...

2. Why isn't there a distribution of greatest maps all in a single zip file that the authors have collectively agreed to assemble?

3. This thread, the interest in a launcher has been discussed, but players have long been complaining there isn't a good map/mod manager.

4. DarkPlaces, the most advanced engine, doesn't have a maps menu in it like JoeQuake does. Anyone who has ever used the JoeQuake maps menu knows how great that is.

I am just pointing out some things here and there. CZG said it best ...

"Several conventions would have to be agreed upon, and I know the Quake community is pure shit with agreeing upon conventions." 
And Without Further Ado ... 
I was hoping just to drop up some information whether or not it got used and head back to HQ.

After I left this thread about 7 posts down, I was determined to follow the Prime Directive and not interfere with other Quake civilizations.

But when RPG asked me a question, I just couldn't not answer it because of how nice he was back when I first posted here asking map questions.

[/me exits the building again, heh] 
Dunno, all this stuff just goes right over my head I guess... I know how to load mods/maps/etc, and I know where to find'em. Fitzquake (and aguirre's engines for developing) are just fine for me, and if I really want to play coop I know a couple people I could pester into joining me on irc.

Problem with a coop server is that it would automatically miss out on lots of brilliant maps that use custom progs. 
You Don't Need An Excuse To Post Here. 
Just As A Little Note Here, (and A Sort Of Self Plug :P ) 
if anyone hasn't tried it, quoth has slightly tweaked AI so that monsters in coop won't switch back and forth between players if they are both attacking at the same time (ie: with NG) which should lead to a little more interesting fighting, instead of one monster being totally incapacitated by two player's shotguns or something. :)

they still switch, just not instantly.

if you're using netquake for coop, you could just load up normal maps with quoth instead. 
Wot Wot! 
FitzQuake lacks a vital small code fix that is, . . . it will have problems connecting to the server and just sit there and say "Connection Accepted" with the cursor blinking

I think I had that problem while attempting to play Quoth coop with Kell, Gom, Bal, et al. 
necros go make a QuothQ1.qrk


i want to make a map for quoth! 
I wasn't flaming FitzQuake. The site has a link to FitzQuake and I often mention it when discussing single player such as:

I was providing information. Rather than let you guys wonder/get frustrated/not understand that aspect of FitzQuake, I wanted to make that known.

This is a coop thread, I figured I'd give you a heads-up in advance so you knew what was going on with that. 
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