|Posted by Shambler on 2005/01/02 09:41:31|
|Quake 1 remade in a new engine, blending old skool atmosphere and gameplay feel with nu-skool graphics and technology?? I think it could be fantastic if done right....so how WOULD it be done right?? One might not be able to trust a gaming company to do it right, but one could trust one of the last bastions of the Quake community to do it, right??
So post and discuss how you think it (hypothetically I'm sure, sadly) should be done...
It's shambler, it's worth the read.
That post he just made embodied every legitimate complaint that people had with remaking Quake.
possibly true, I do think that Quake V shouldn't be just a straight remake, but still, Shambler posts quality stuff.
Speaks the truth.
MORE COMMENTS AND RANDOM CAPS ABUSE.
So yeah where was I...
8. Maps and shit. Nothing particular here except that each M1 would be a base map, and, errr, that's it. Well some homages to Quake itself would be great for sure, that would be essential. Include some more memorable scenes and all. BUT they would all be cooler, bigger, badder, scarier. Not too much so it got silly, but just better. Like how mappers here have done things bettar.
Exploration would be a big feature too. Although there would be some story and some scene-setting and stuff, a BIG part would be that you're DUMPED in these ultra-dimensional worlds, that you have to explore and find a way through, you;re not lead through by your NADS as in HL2.
9. You. You are the marine. You are nameless. You are alone. You are sent in to do a job that goes way out of control. You may occasionally encounter others, in the base at least. You may occasionally communicate. But at the heart, you're a marine fighting through Quake's worlds on your own. To survive. To kill. To be victorious rather than to be DEAD.
10. Weapons. Quake arsenal plus a bit. Weapons would be simple and brutal. You will get challenged by the sheer bloody violence of the monsters you face not by fiddling around reloading your butthole.
Additional weapons...Chainsaw, Daikatana Shotcycler, Nehara Stakegun. That sort of thing. Upgrades might be good too. Something that allows multiple shots. Or different ammo. But nothing too extravagant. Solid violence.
Oh, and the NEMESAT if possible....that weapon is scary in itself.
10. Monsters. OH YES Monsters fuck yeah. One big feature - the base enemy would be seperate from the Quake enemy. They would be enemy for sure, but specific base enemy. A few may spill over into Quake's realm but they would be as unwelcome there as you are (CONFLICT). Anyway, possessed/warped humans, ex-military now zombified. After your blood as well.
All of QUAKE's MONSTERS should remain, but with a few of them (dogs, fish, lower knights) tweaked to make them more evile and Quakey). They will have Quake's distinctive style (often eyeless, spikey, weird), but enhanced. Not changed like the Skaarjbler made for D3, but enhanced. A few different classes of monster would be good too (e.g. different zombies). Give a bit of variety, keep you on your toes.
New monsters....some would be good. Fill in some gaps in the bestiary. Mega-enforcers and Scorpions obligatoire of course. The latter would be in the Quake realms I think. A Battlesuit/robot thing (QUAKEY of course) for the base stuff would be cool. In Quake realms, well. More swimming monsters. Things that crawl along walls. More flying things. All in the Quake style i.e. not traditional but slightly twisted and warped. Also, something big and chunky, with 6 stumpy legs and a ram head, like a rhino but Quakey. Maybe some more too. Spikey and all.
11. AI and behaviour. This could be improved a lot without delving into the realms of cheesy duck and grenade HL/2 AI. I;m thinking of stuff where monsters are still monsterous and VIOLENT but have CHARACTER, they have behavioural quirks. E.g. Death Knights are vicious fighters but have some pride and honour. Knights have less pride but are eager to please. DK's will also throw Ks out of the way or maybe at the player if they are being ineffective. Ogres are monstrous barbarians but also take boisterous glee in fighting. They will do occasional crazy things like throwing their chainsaws at you and other such pissed off behaviour. Scrags are sneaky and devious. They will lurk. Spawn are entirely mindless. Fiends are vicious hunters, out purely for blood. Base enemy will be more tactical and human like. Shamblers and bigger monsters are powerful but probably surprised you dare confront them, and even more surprised if you hurt them. Then they get pissed...
Etc etc. I think a certain measure of random AI, within given "I exist to kill" parameters would be good. These monsters are out to kill you but also have their own lives and own quirks, they don't just exist to follow a pre-programmed path. They should interact between themselves too, other than just fighting. Hierarchies and stuff.
Okay that's all for now. I hope this rambling conveys the point I'm after, that it's possible to improve a lot of Quake and not only retain the Quakiness but make it more Quakey by enhancing what's already there and making it more immersive, more gripping, and more IN YOUR FUCKING FACE.
I think, BTW, that DOOM3 did a good job of showing how updating can work, and how the "lone marine against brutal monsters" can works, from the point of view of styles, story, background fluff etc (not that Quake's would be the same, of course, but necessarily similar to be true to Quake), although NOT from the point of view of GAMEPLAY nor of CONVINCINGLY TWISTED settings (although it had some of those).
Yes, I agree, get to work... �_�
Btw, for E3, I'd see it more as some kind of giant evil machine/city, lots of strange and bulky gears and machinery moving around everywhere, whose purposes remain quite mysterious to even its local residents of course.
I think a combination of Lovecraft and Piranesi should be about right for Episode 4. Also, work some Beksinski into Episode 5, and you're golden >:D
Told ya Shamber had good stuff.
Barons maybe? If there's one thing I'd want to keep from Nehahra it would probably be them...
(And the stake gun... =)
I haven't re-read all the ideas posted on this thread but I think I agree with quite a few of them, and I think quite a few of them fit in with my ideas.
Oh I had something else to say about that and I forgot and my brain fell outta my ass well fuck that.
E3 could be really fucking class. I mean it was the stylistic highlight anyway, but there's some really interesting areas you could go with that style.
The other episodes would have to be 1337ified to match but I think that could be done...
I Want Quake V
Shambler's E3 needs to have smelting. In addition to heavy, industrial roaring cogs, cams, chains and bushings and belching stacks, you need flowing molten metal and thunderous forges, slamming glowing ingots into the steely bones of this boundless city. If only they could produce a PCI odour card so you could whiff the acrid steel, grease and blood.
I want Shambler to direct the design team for QV. I don't think it would be hard to collect the right mappers. I'll volunteer to scrub toilets and make coffee as long as I can help beta test.
I'm glad this thread is finally getting the attention it deserves. I mean, don't we ALL have ideas we would like to see implemented in a future/retro version of Quake?
While we are at it, I think void maps should make an appearance in some (if not all) episodes -- they always made me feel eerily out of time and place :)
No - industrial machinery is ALL WRONG for E3.
To c'n'p my comment in #tf:
I don't think you wanna make e3 machinery-based - there should be a lot of movement, but it should be weird, like vast metallic blocks silently floating in the sky, defying all logic and physical laws
One Point I Want To Add To What Shambler Said
13. Player should become a monster in the end. He should become more monstrous after each episode he had passed. His power should become more are more overwhelming. And after he killed the final boss he should become the Lord of all Quake dimensions.
Lol, that sounds like something Romero would dream up :/
Shamblers and bigger monsters are powerful but probably surprised you dare confront them, and even more surprised if you hurt them. Then they get pissed...
Indeed! Shamblers merely note your presence until you fire on them or try to get past them or unless some 'overlord' orders them to attack.
Kinn: I gotta go with scraggy on E3 especially since I'm working on a level that attempts an E3/heavy industrial mix (replacing molten metal with blood). Your idea sounds better suited to the 'wierdness' that is - could be - E4.
This is all hypothetical, but I still can't help but get excited.
I really like Shambler's idea of a Zerstorer style E5. I love the atmosphere of that mod, the way it just feels like Quake with a twist.
One idea I had was to have slightly different physics in different episodes or levels, e.g. the lowered gravity in E1M8. Since many levels are on different planes of existance etc, why should the physics be identical to here? perhaps on one level there could be less friction or something. I dunno, just an idea.
I love the idea of Hell Knights throwing Knights aside to get to the player, that'd be awesome.
I think bringing in some more Lovecraftian elements could be awesome too, especially in the later episodes. Crazy tentacled stuff and mishapen monsters is just sooooo Quake.
The most important thing is to keep it dirty, rusty and decayed. Quake ain't supposed to be pretty.
More Ideas (random Stream Of Blah)
FFS keeping my up last night with ideas pouring outta my ass.
Some episode "vibe" ideas. This sorta goes along with Quake being some entity (living? undead? sentient? machine?) that has some control or prescence (but not a physical one) in it's domains.
E1 - this is just a wild tour through the domains. Imagine an extended and playable version of the Resonance Cascade in HL1 - thrown from place to place and zapped randomly to the next place (in fact, you wouldn't have exits as such, you'd just be zapped elsewhere....so you could SEE other things in the distance, which you'd actually revisit later on. Make no mistake this would still be packed full of Quakey goodness though.
E2 - Quake in CONFLICT. As I said before, I think some sort of war-like background would enhance the medieval settings and make them more....tense. Maybe having more conflict between knights and their ilk and Quake monsters in this episode. Not out and out "oh look at all these scripted scenes presented to you" conflict, but more of a chance of infighting between more distinct sides. Oh and fighting you of course. At the same time lots of dank, hidden areas that the player skulks around. A stronger prescence of insidious monsters too, fish and scrags and stuff.
E3 - Quake INDUSTRY. No, not OTT industrial stuff, not obvious, not like Quake2 or anything. But subtle, incomprehensible industry. Basically a cross between Bals and Kinns and CZGs ideas, a metal city with monolithic abstract designs, mechanisms that do things, stuff going on but none of it makes much sense. Living things are aliens here, intruders. The city has it's own purpose, some of it grinds away, some of it moves, some of it sits there. Some of the vibes of the Combine buildings in HL2 really fit here, when they are just crushing through the city, no sense to it, no reason. All in E3 stylee of course. More OGRES and monsters that use mechanical things than most.
E4 - Quake WASTELAND. A sense of desolation, of ancient destruction, of forgotten conflicts, of meaningless repopulation by ravening hordes of monsters. Designs that are twisted beyond their original form, places that once had purpose but are now warped by insidious tendrils of Quake's power, leaving behind altars, artifacts, animosity. A bestiary of powerful, vicious monsters who bear no relation to anything Earth-like. A realm where you must succumb fully to the brutality of life in Quake's realm.
E5 - Quake's HEARTLAND. A home, a source of power, a location high up the hierarchy of Quake's rule, a place from which the evil and violence spreads outwards. Getting close to the centre of the seething nest of monsters and madness (a centre you will never reach, a centre that only exists in abstract concepts not in physical reality). Evil and terrifying, suffused with torment and darkness, organic matter blending with brutal designs of rock and metal....the latter being at least as "living" as the organisms within. The full bestiary is here, this is their domain, they are in control, in uneasy truce with their surroundings.
......please note that these ideas are not to change the vibes of each Episode, but to enhance them, take what is already strong about them, and make it stronger, more convincing, more atmospheric, and hopefully more fantastic - yes they will be less ARBITRARY places, but equally as detached from reality and as unrelated to earth as ever.
Scenes from Quake....I think there are quite a lot of more prominent scenes that should be kept, obviously enhanced a lot with cutting edge graphics, but kept recognisable. Particular designs and settings and scenes. For example, in E1:
E1M1 - outside area with river, inside spiral stair room with lights.
E1M2 - start area with slight bleedover from base, room where Fiend is unleashed.
E1M3 - whole of GK area, lift up to top area.
E1M4 - big underwater area, castle front.
E1M5 - starting area, room where Smabler first attacks.
E1M6 - crushing trap scene.
E1M8 - low G and pyramids.
- The idea being these would be part of much bigger and more imposing maps (not purely imposing of course, a lot of sneaky areas, twisting passages, etc) but would be recognisable - they would have to be done well to do justice to the original of course.
I Don't Edit These That's Why They Are Pretty Incoherent...
Secrets and kill scores - WOULD HAVE TO BE IN! No question =). But, to make them more convincing, you'd have a bit of an explanation about how your armour suit can track such things and keep a record (for what reason? maybe an interesting mystery there).
In fact I envisage the armour suit could be a bit more purposeful. Very little difference as far as the game goes, but there could be some hints that it's a powered suit, able to fit a carapace of other armour on top, and rack weapons on the back. No, this isn't as gay as it sounds, maybe it's not needed but maybe it would make things more convincing (see, explanations without needing REALISM).
Oh, I had an idea about supplies and stuff too. Possible idea, again, background fluff with little effect in the game. In the start map of the base, there's a warehouse section. When you explore E1M1 and things go SPAZZZZO, you end up finding ammo and armour and stuff scattered over the domain. Upon one's return to the base, the warehouse is in CHAOS, crates (yes, crates!) are scattered and open, wreckage everywhere, random flickerings of teleportation residue. The result, supplies are scattered throughout Quake's domain. And some of them end up in obscure hidden places - these are called "secrets".
Of course what you find is not all human supplies....there are other artifacts, other weapons....things that are lying around that may belong to Quake or maybe not, but whichever they are ripe for the picking and whatever use you can make of them. And some of the human weapons you discover don't make much sense - Nailguns? Stakeguns? Not very military - what is going on? (MYSTERY).
AGAIN, no change to gameplay but some more fluff to make things more immersive. None of which should detract from how alien Quake's domains would be...
P.P.S. Deathknights - steam rising out of their visor grills, nuff said.
Similar to Quake itself, apart from E1 being first. Choice of 3 episodes in any order after that. Within each episode, linear progression through maps, but plenty of exploration and alternatives through the maps.
Maybe backtracking possible? I don't know.
you dont know. ok
some one else will do gamedesign then
and you will be art director
:) / Slope / Speedy / Whoever You Are.
This is just brainstorming already.
YOU can be the toilet cleaning boy :P.
Your ideas about E2 and the armor suit are absolutely terrible.
Don't you pay attention? Ask any mapper what the best thing about mapping for Q1 is, and one of the first things mentioned is that you can combine any of the monsters in any way you want. Warring factions/clans/monsters? That idea has ruined innumerable games since Q1 was released.
And explaining how secrets/kills are counted? That's about the stupidest thing ever. Has it occured to you that maybe some things don't need explaining? Next you're going to want to explain how the Q guy can quantify exactly what percentage of his health he's lost, or keep track of all the ammo he's carrying.
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