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Screenshots & Betas
This is the place to post screenshots of your upcoming masterpiece and get criticism, or just have people implore you to finish it. You should also use this thread to post beta versions of your maps.

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hey ho. just thought i'd post up some screenies of the episode i'm working on, currently residing under the name of 'Numen'. suffice to say it's a fairly long way off completion yet but if anyone has any feedback in these early stages then i guess it can only help. i have seven main maps planned.. two are pretty much complete, another is about 1/3 done, i have the layout down for two more and the final two are still on the drawing board. i'm hoping to get it done before 2008.. staying optimistic! (new hosting so may be unpredictable) 
interior is arranged with a nice variety of shapes and plenty of details in the design to make it look like a lived in space. Catches the eye and holds it.

Stone work could use a work over though. The base design looks 2007 and the natural stone looks 1997.

I'm looking forward this one. 
Looks Great 
especially the outdoor shots! This is Q1SP, right? 
I'm looking forward this one.

While my syntax is 10097 BC. 
overall i like the look of it, the fog, skybox, textures, etc. However, it seems there is not a lot of contrast in the lighting, everything feels very flat-lit. Some darker shadows and pitch-black nooks and crannies, some spotlights and bright-lit things that pop more, and some "bright light coming through a grating and casting cool shadows" type additions would be good. 
If you're using minlight, I'd seriously consider not using it. This is pretty much my opinion on all maps that use minlight. But if you do use it, please keep it very dim, and put most of the burden of lighting on your point lights. 
Forgot To Mention 
forgot to mention that lavafall is supergroovy. 
looks great man ;) 
I completely agree with everything that everyone else has already said about those shots: looks cool, but the lighting needs more contrast, and the rocks might need a little spice.

P.S. everything is better with a little (or a lot of)wine. 
Very Intriguing Numen Shots! 
Strong sense of shapes, textures and color palette. Love the scalloped walls, square greenish pavement and the big pillars... Bravo! 
aguire: yes it's q1sp.. or will be, i just haven't put any monsters in yet ;D
i can't see any of the layouts working well for dm

metlslime: i too share your disdain for minlight, but have only set it to 15 in those three maps.. which is what i thought was enough to eliminate fulldark without hurting the contrast. i've been toying around with removing it altogether though, so will prob try that & post a few comparison shots at some point. i should mention that the outdoor/skylit areas use increased falloff lights to provide an overall softer 'natural' feel.. but this shouldn't appear inside

headthump: it's actually a bloodfall, but cheers :D also, when you say the stonework needs work, do you mean more detail, better shaping or just different texturing?

rpg: i agree the rocks need work in shot 9, and i intend on giving them a makeover. but the ones in the first two i'm pretty happy with

anyone else: thanks :) 
Fucking hell that looks amazing.

Screw the full episode thing, just release it episodically... 
Awesome Stuff 
agree on the lighting comments.

question, some of those shots look inspired by ctf-shadar by el chicoverde. Have you played that at all? 
Rj : Numen 
Wow, looks really nice ! Cool architecture and design layout. texturing is also very well done. And it seems there is a kind of smooth foggy effect on some shots, that is really cool !
Very tasty indeed: keep it up.. and go map :) 
Yeah, looks cool. Quite a large scale - does this hint to excessive horde combat? 
Looks Great 
Very interesting ideas. 
I hate dwelling on negative things when everything else about those screen shots work superbly, and I may also be oversensitive to rock formation because I spend a lot of time hiking in mountains and foot hills so this advice can be taken with a little salt.

You are not going to see very many 90 degree vertical angles on the side of cliffs when you are in nature. Erosion tends to smooth things out. So using one long brush for a cliff side is not effective because cliffs are stratified in nature. If we had phong shading for Quake it would be easier to get away with it because the edges can be smoothed out and even warped with just the shading, but given our limitations, it is best to mimic stratification by using several brushes piled on top of one another. 
it's nice reading these comments. thank you all!

nitin: i hadn't, but just googled the author & saw a screenshot of the map & can see how you mean. i'll have to get round to reinstalling UT sometime & have a proper look at it

neg|ke: i enjoy occasional bouts of horde combat but certainly not in excession. i've vowed to stay away from planning the gameplay too vigourously until the bulk of the layouts are completed anyway.. so who knows :p

headthump: no worries man, i'm actually intrigued.. i'll admit they may not be completely realistic but i'm also having trouble picturing your description.. is there any chance you could knock up a small example map & post a screenshot? just something tiny to illustrate the brush piling thing, would appreciate it :) 
Sure Thing 
I'll put something together this weekend. 
triangular faces are your friends! 
thats reallty awesome, havent seen such coolness in years.
fov is cheated tho haha (wider fov = better looks)

hope to see it 
Triangular faces are not your friends; they are soul-sucking leaches that drain you of joy and mapping spirit. 
To Rj Again 
on lighting

It looks quite realitic - a bit washed out,
but still with proper sourced lights and shadows (unlike ORL screens that have unconvincing lite, like if he`d used linear falloffs). Reminds me of UT, which is good

minlight is the only way to simulate radiocity, but dont use a high value for it 
I'll put something together this weekend.

any action on this btw? no worries if you have no time or anything, i don't want to seem impatient. it's just i'm working on a particularly rocky section at the moment and got concerned about how to go about it, so have taken a break to work on coding :p 
Hey RJ 
sorry, man. I decided to use a terrain section of my base map as an example, only I didn't get as far in the construction of the map as I had hoped last weekend.

The map I made for the Winter/Norway pack (the .map file is included) has examples in the first and last areas of how you may use strips to emulate terrain, but it is not quite the technique I use now. 
Tricerops Tribolitus 
I know it still has a flattened skin, but I finally succeeded in the tribolitus new Quake 1 monster. Made it from scratch, based on the demon fiend.

But as I had no basemodel, I imported the original demon and stretched it back to base.
From that point I accelerated the animation frames. It may look a little scrunched, but the dxf files had so many errors, at least 15 in each frame, and there were 81.

Layed my hand on the qc, and thanks to preach it runs now with the demon leap and the shamblers magic.

comments are welcome. 
Animated Vieuw 
the qmle vision it supports... 
Ahah, I came in here to see it looked like the offspring of a squid and a triceratops, but I see you yourself have made part of that intentional.

It looks...odd.

I'd say the texture definitely needs some work, it looks like a higher quality texture that has been dithered down right now. The tentacles look weird as well but they could look cool ingame as it runs towards you. 
Pretty Nice 
I agree about the texture though, looks like it has some compression problems or something - a bit pixellated.

Looking forward to your next excursion Madfox. 
First I just used the demon _fiend skin, but I thought it needed something to make it look opposite this monster. So I used a scanned picture of a kamelion, but coming back in Wally all the colours needed to be substituted.
And that would be a longer job that I can effort.

Sure the texture looks pixellated, I wonder how RPG has done his retexturing work. If I scale up the skin0.texture it would survive, but then it would only be usefull in Fitzquake.
And as I ment it as a good old quake monster it wasn't my intention.

Also it has some nasty vericemeshes, but as I had already 825 behind, these less won't count. 
The skin has all sorts of colors in it that don't seem to belong there. That's why it looks "pixelated".
Does it have an attack animation yet? What does it do? 
If you aren't going to take the time to paint a proper texture at least use a better conversion method.

Go back to your source image and convert it to the Quake pallete using closest colours instead of dithering. 
What It Does... 
Alright, I know how it feels to see the pie, but you just can't taste it...
So I screwed my nightrestt to make a little level for you to test it and see what it does. Maybe it gives a better feeling of what you can expect. But be warned, Spirit. It is a rather strong monster.

Tron, I realize your comment. It is just that I had so much work on the vertice meshes (1215!) I haven't had enough time to do it. I'm surely planning to go on with it. I just wanted to make sure all the other things went right. When I had the kameleon tex in wally I experienced that, although I had converted it to the q1 pal, the colours still didn't match.

But I sureley will look into it. Have fun with the test version, you're free to comment. 
Did Someone Say My Name? 
I wonder how RPG has done his retexturing work.

Wait. Which retexturing work did I do? 
sorry RPG, I ment Starbuck. 
Rudl And Distrans 
Rudl: I have sent you 2 emails within the past 2 weeks regarding beta testing the oms2 maps and I have yet gotten a reply back from you. The last email I got from you was on July 7th. Is there a problem?

Distrans: You said you wanted to beta test, and I sent you the maps. You have not yet once sent an email back to me, and its been almost a month. Why did you want the maps if you were not going to get in touch with me about them? 
...Yeah, aplogies for not getting back yet. Travail release kinda got in the way.

I do in fact have a long demo with comments recorded, but when I reviewed it I discovered it was almost completely negative. I played oms24 again last night and decided I can also make some positive notes on it, so I plan to do a run through again this weekend and note as I go. If you don't want to kill me after you get that report then I could move on to 25. 
I did not see the second mail
I'll send you a mail today 
If you don't want to kill me after you get that report then I could move on to 25.

No no, send me all the negatives you find. I plan to do some very big changes to oms24 before its final release.

...Yeah, aplogies for not getting back yet. Travail release kinda got in the way.

Well since Travail was that good... I'll allow it. :)

Sorry, I did not see the second mail. I'll send you a mail today

Okay. Just making sure.

Sorry for sounding like a jerk in my previous post, but I haven't been having a very good week. 
You got mail ;) 
Now You Know 
what it does, Spirit, may I remind you of my revieuws I sended? I know it must have been a lot of work switching from server, so don't mind. I was surprised seeing my levels deleted.

Tron, your advice was right. I didn't have to change the converted colours, although they didn't match the Quake palette tabel.
Oh yes thanks, I had forgotten.
No files were deleted (at least I didn't remove anything). I think I simply never had all your maps. 
...distrans sends out beer, a beta report and the HuGs! 
The last update contained these levels, but gave a page/not/found error.
I still wonder why onepair has always been there, while gravey trail not. Also why the abandon is not at the mod-single player category(?). Also PhantomPholly is missing.

But hey, don't misunderstand me, you still have the best quake1 recource I ever saw on the net! 
Second That 
give me a #1307 hat. First one looks so empty. 
That's not a hat - its the logo for a game called Quake3 . . .

Guess I'm missing something there. 
�t's a general abuse... 
<-- That;s The Love Ewe Symbol

Sick, sick, sick, (but funny!), sick 
But You Would Pick The Ugliest One 
You got mail 
I sent you a reply last week, did you receive it ?
(it bounced a few times before it seemed to send, so that�s why I ask here ) 
Some Shots 
awesome rusty textures; you could turn these wall decos into some real rusty pipes or add them anyway, would make the room appear more interesting.
The floor in the 3rd shot: hmm seems like it�d be a pain to move there (just my thoughts).

BTW what is that red thingy in the first shot, looks kinda weird ? 
Looks Good 
I'm a fan of Ogro's sets as well, and I like all the angles you've put in everwhere.

The large red lightpanel in the first shot does look a bit out of place - so make it into more of a feature with a glowing light or some details enclosing it. 
i think it could do with more texture variety. also, the three pipes on the wall's texture tiles in an obvious manner.

there's some nice geometry in there, but it needs some trim and contrast to bring it out.

cheers :) 
Yeah, Cheers :)) 
And maybe Ogro's brown set (of Nehahra fame) could help add some trim to break up the repeating rust texture. 
idbase is overused 
that rust texture is from ogro :-p 
Well I like the idbase textures too, but ogro's texture-set is a bit darker grimmer.
This shots show more or less one room, so I don't think it's repeating. Here is another (with brown ogro textures)
The large red lightpanel in the first shot is the back site of the computer. Already put a pulsing light there, looks a lot better.
The three pipes are made in an obvious manner, does it look bad?
Thanks for some nice ideas and feedback :) 
what i'm seeing here (and what i've seen before with the set, which is why i never used it) is that they don't tile well at all. take a look at the 2 thick beams on the ceiling in that shot... you can clearly see it repeating over and over. same goes for the rusty wall on the right side. it's clearly tiled 4 times there.

the textures look great on their own, but when they aren't broken up with a lot of geometry, they look shit.

i think if you added in the 16 wide trim you used on the ceiling beams in between each repetition of the rusty wall on the right side, it'd look a lot better, for example. 
...It would look a lot better if I aligned the texture on the thick beams correct ;) lol
I did a grave mistake (The original beams were
thicker, I downsized them) 
I still think they look dated, kind of in the same way as the original rubicon textures. 
Yep, Better 
But you should realign that panel texture on the left that's below the blocks that are below the lights. It looks like a 128 brush so that texture should align to the floor height.

The map's looking grimy and evil. 
It's Coming 
look very nice ;) cant wait to put my hand on it!!! :) dont have any sp to play :( alreaqdy played all Q1 maps :((( 
Looks Okay 
But even the shots with angled brushes seem incredibly flat.

Angle it up! 
Nah, Box It Up! 
go all frank lloyd wright in this bitch 
Spotlights . . . 
Would like nice on those recessed anglewall lights in shot2 - AguirRe's light tool can help to set up spots without messing around with info_null's.

As it is they look pretty diffuse for what is an otherwise dark corridor.

To save yourself time lighting the more bright areas (like in shot 3) you could also use delay in the same light tool for wider range but faster falloff - produces very nice effects when normal and wide range / ffalloff lights are mixed. 
Well, yeah I kinda noticed how the map turned out to be very boxy and x-axis but I guess that was a result of some sub-conscious planning. You see, I have been building maps for Duke3D for the past ten years (see my profile) and the editor ("Build") is somewhat limited. For example, you can't create solid objects that float (bridges, for example, unless you construct them using tons of 2d sprites).

"Spotlights... Would like nice on those recessed anglewall lights in shot2 - AguirRe's light tool can help to set up spots without messing around with info_null's. "

Yeah, I actually wanted some kind of spotlights but found out I can't do that with tools that come with WC. I'll take a closer look at various third-party tools when the architecture is finished. 
I Use WC As Well (v1.6a) 
And you can; open the smartedit tab on any light and give it the various fields needed (check the docs for those).

You can also write them into a fgd so that you don't need smaredit - I have a Quoth version I can forward. 
Kinda what ijed said, but if the stuff is not in the fgd (prolly not) you have to disable smartedit.

Use aguirre's build tools and read vis.txt for documentation of the new light utility. It's quite versatile. 
I Agree With Lun. 
Totally digging on the rectangular vibe there, Mikko. Nothing wrong with playing to your strengths, or at least exploring them. 
Build... whoa, I haven't thought about that editor in quite a while. 
my textures + ik base. kinda cool! 
The map needs a bit more polishing and I still need to add gameplay. This could take a few days or about a week. After this the map should be ready for testing. So, I need TWO experienced mappers to betatest the map.

I�m not mapping, but I�ve done some testing in the past.

E-mail is in my profile. 
Sielwolf is the best playtester you can get. 
I'm Not Even Close... the best playtester you can find, but, I'd love to give it a shot, if you cannot find anyone better.
Obviously, just jokingg... I did some playtesting in the past... Address' in the profile... 
Thanks - I'll be contacting you once the map is ready for it.

One more shot: 
Try scaling the rivet texture down, and look into the appropriate way to make 45 degree trim (I'm referring to the big things on the edges of that building). Looks nice though, ikbase yaey! 
rivet tex looks cool i think, but yes agree with inert 45 degree texture cutoff bothers me.

looks to be a cool map! 
The Thing With Ikbase? 
trim. and a lot of it. :P 
I Think 
the door looks tiny compared to the rest of the scale, but it's kinda cool in a weird way... it's of course hard to judge in a screenshot. 
what IS the correct way to make 45 degree trim, then?

This made me scratch my head. You mean the slotted brown trim is not "wrapping" around the edge, so the rusty texture looks cut off? 
Hey Golden_boy... 
...I try to avaoid the use of 45 degree angles all together, because of the texturing issues, but sometimes it can't be helped.

The texture on the 45 degree plane at the top of the right hand side support column looks:
1. Out by maybe 2 units in the "horizontal", thus it either needs to be flipped or simply pushed left a couple of units.
2. Out in the "vertical plane", because the base of the panel on the angle does not match up with the top of the panel on the vertical. Textures place on a 45 degree angle, in most editors AFAIK, need to be either stretched or shrunk on one of the axes to make seams line up. 
45 Degree Trim 
Not sure how to explain it, but you should use the same tactic as you would for putting trim on any angled surface. The idea is to have the width of the trim be constant (usually 16 or 32 units) as it wraps around the shape. This is all in an effort to make quake levels look more realistic -- and if not realistic, at least plausible. Someone around here has a curve-making tutorial, which should help you. Not to self-pimp, but it's the first example that came to my mind: in my only released map, I use trim a lot in the way that I am suggesting to you (although usually on a horizontal surface, not a vertical one).

....I have no idea if that made any sense. Good luck! 
New Design Study 
After watching City of Lost Children again, I was inspired to build something of similar nature.

Feedback is welcome,

Pretty Sweet, But 
which game/engine is it for?

Oh, and if I forgot to mention,
Pretty Sweet! 
Looks to be HL2. :( 
Zwiffle: Actually Doom 3 :)

I try to avaoid the use of 45 degree angles all together, because of the texturing issues, but sometimes it can't be helped.

You shouldn't because stuff like that is what makes your map stand out. Look at a Than map for proof. Inertia is right, trimming adds realism. It makes your map more believable and much more pleasing to the eye (if done right..).

And come on, is it really that hard to rotate/scale a texture?

Just imo :) 
Wow, really nive shots ! Did the Hell forces invade Earth or what ? Nice ambience in anyway ! Keep it up ! 
45� Angles 
I am a lazy bu and use them. Luckily Quark has the "fit texture to face with minimum scaling". Some multiplication here and there (as too over-/underscaled textures look pretty bad) and taaadaaaa. 
Ooooh, Doom 3 Water. :O 
Awesome screenies Method.

Is it for a particular project, or just to show off? :P 
Method's Hideout Project 
JPL: The atmosphere is inspired by a French movie The City of Lost Children. One of my favorites on the list with Dark City.

Text_Fish: It's a project codenamed Method's Hideout. My goal was to create a texture set for my themes of level design which are urban, industrial and abandoned. Then it became a design study, to show what I can do with Doom 3 engine. You can find other design studies here:

The water I used was actually a hack. It's a shader that distorts any diffuse map. If you jump into it, you'll fall through :(

wow very nice shots and very interesting textures. will you release them before/after your project? 
They're The First 
Original looking screenshots I've seen for a Doom3 project.

Very nice. 
Those are some kickass impressive textures. Great work! 
nice work on the textures, and nice shots. 
45 Degree Surfaces 
I see what you mean now.

I'm actually using that method myself (shrinking), it kinda seemed natural.

Is there a formula concerning how much textures are stretched at what angle?

I actually thought you meant the rust texture on the side of the left pillar/air duct? thingy, which is chopped off without anything to cover it up.

But yeah, it's clear now. 
oh cool! I want to map with those 
...did you play Travail? 
in basic trigonometry, if the horizontal texture scale is 1 and the texture is stretched upwards to 45 degrees, it travels sqrt(2) [sqrt means square root] or 1.414 units along the surface now. So the scaling must be 1/sqrt(2) = 1/1.414 = 0.7071.

If you have a 27 degree slope (aka "czg curve" ie 0:1 1:2 2:1 1:0) the stretch factor is 0.89. (cos 27 or rather more explilicitly cos(atan(1/2)) )
But a bit depends on the qbsp settings (ie -oldaxis) and map program settings...

Yeah it prolly doesn't make sense without pictures and also possibly doesn't work in the editor or final map. 
And To Method 
Man, you make good stuff, too bad the engine wrong way shininess somewhat detracts from it.

2003... could someone do an improvement to the engine? 
Cool. I aim to one day understand that :-) 
"unless of course I'll make a SP level. "

Looking at those sweet shots, that course of action should be obligatory. 
Kill Me Now. 
You were dead all along! 
I'd Like To Show You All Something 
I've been working on this for the last few weeks. It's a map from 2002 that I've touched up, sealed, lighted, and compiled. Just eclipsed 4000 brushes. For the sake of anachronism, I've been editing it in the same ancient editor (quiver!) I used to use back then. Textures are mostly rtgnosis and rtarbor, with a few unreal and kingpin sneaking in. I'm pleased with the lighting so far, but it is not perfect. There is no progression of objectives yet, nor many things to kill. I've not decided whether to just throw some keys in and release it, or save it for something much larger.

Oh right, it's some kind of medieval city for Q1, currently I'm using Nehahra entities.

This part is very old and unchanged:
dense narrow streets:
you can go inside the buildings:
I'm aware that this lighting is rather flat: 
its fucking awesome shit fuck! 
Oh, very nice !! I love the medieval city atmosphere.. It remind me the "Petite France" in Strasbourg :)

Keep it up, and release it soon please ! 
Go white girl go! 
You win. 
Thanks guys. Any critiques? like, is that grey wood plank texture overused as trim? 
Grafh & Method 
Looking sweet, guys.

Grahf: Really cool, strong and original theme there, I dig the textures and your heavy structures. Lots of supports, pillars and girders, very nice. Maybe the lights and monsters are enough to bring some splotches of colors, making them stand out even more. Fits right into Quake.

Method: Foreboding, forgotten, isolated, old, decayed. Hope you'll be releasing that texture set? Would fit right into HL2, too, I feel. It's got a good vibe to it, like something out of the dark, old alleys of an old European city. 
zommgmggggg Grahf welcome back ;)

look real good the map :) can�t wait to put my hands on it... 
Looks like something out of Thief: The Dark Project.

Especially the lit windows. 
looks great, I like that texture combination.

Method, that's very nice. Looks quite City of Lost Children-ish, which is a good thing. 
I've Got A Long Way To Go 
I should comment on method's screenies. I seriously thought it was a max/maya rendering, before he said it was D3. That level of mapping is so far beyond anything I could attempt. 
Thanks Grahf :) I'm planning on making a SP level in the future. Currently thinking of cool ideas for it and geometry.

That looks very solid - nice to know you're using Nehahra as well, it remains one of the greats.

You're going ahead with a full SP or you have grander plans?

Both good. 
You got mail 
Cool stuff Grahf! Looking forward to that one! 
Yeah, Nice Goodly Stuff Here, Grahf 
Those deep shadows remind me of the first Thief game as well. 
If You Want A Little Criticical Eyeballing 
those trims could use some color variation. I'd avoid using the same color on the trim as you do on the dominate tiles. That one tile with the X cross I'd recommend whipping out photoshop and making the X portion a lighter tone so it doesn't look so flat. 
similar to advice Metl once gave me, the wooden post and the brown brick in kind of fade in to one another because they are almost the same shade of brown. Lighten the wooden post tile and it should bring out its material properties better in contrast to the brick's dark bulky presence. 
You Rock, Grahf. 
Digging the medieval vibe, must see more!! 
New Small Episode For Quoth - Deja Vu - Testers? 
OK people, Ive made a six map mini episode using quoth. I have sent a copy to kell. So far I havent incorporated skyboxes (but will) and it probably needs a bit of tweaking here and there. I need some playtesting done, but dont want to host a final version online yet cause obviously its not finished. If anyone thinks theyre up for the job, then please email me and I will send you a copy, or leave your email address where I can see it on this messageboard and I will send you a copy. It uses a base theme mostly, lost of quoth demons on the later maps and kell's fury texture wad.

My address:

Jolly Good! 
How About 
a couple of screenshots to pique everyones interest Ricky? 
I'm working on some new Q1 monsters, and so far all goes well. So I tried to get grip on the Q3 bones model, and it has touched me with its grey haze. Converting it to quake1 gave me a tough job, as animating frames all had to be concealed again. Made it some tougher, because it got rather thin, and then

Qmle showed up with a strange texture convertion, as well as a lot of vertice meshes, but that aside. I had the skin part right, but somehow a part of the texture keeps mirrored. I made three models now, but they all turn up with the same error.

Anyone knows how to avoid this nasty habbit? 
ScreenShots For Y'all 
Here are some screenshots of me maps:

I have now added skyboxes (evidently from the shots), and tinkered around with the ending a bit. But I wouldnt have said this version (which I'm not hosting yet) is final, cause it seems the more things I fix, the more problems I see. Took Three hours to compile the last map last night (Aargh!!!), and Ill prob end up doing it again tonight.

Mail me if you wanna playtest the NEW beta! (new from yesterday, that is...) 
Hell, Yes... 
...Mail info is in the profile!!! 
check your surface normals in whatever modelling app you started the model in (I'm assuming you didn't build all this in QME...), make sure they're all contiguous and none of them are reversed. 
I've chequed all vertices. It seems to happen when I export the model to a dxf file.
I've had 14 verticemeshes in each frame, so I went all the 87 frames, untill I counted my dry bones. One perticular vertice seems to be the error.

Is there a way in Qmle to make this surface triangle get back to its origin position?
Because I can't controll the outcom of the dxf files my am2000 is transporting. 
I'm making a Q1 episode for speedrunning right now and designing it as fast as I can to avoid getting bogged down in details.

The Egyptian map should be done by next weekend.
The obtex map is a pain in the ass. :( 
looks badass, good to see you mapping, fern! 
OUM textures... zomggg SEXY!!!

looking good ;) 
Yes, in QMe select the triangle tool and right click on the offending triangle to flip the way it faces. I've noticed that a few of your other models have also had this in places, although it's less plain to spot in them. 
Arggh, Ctrl-click 
You although you can do it by right clicking and selecting the option from the menu, I actually meant to tell you the quick way, which is to hold ctrl and left click on the triangle in question. Much faster if you have more than one to do! 
OUM Textures? 
Don't you mean Oblivion textures? :) 
Possible I had this error in other models, but the reason was I didn't had your advice to solve it.
Sure it was easier than the vertice error!
If you have access to max try using the STL check as well, its not easy to find but it basically finds all lost verticies, backward facing normals and open edges.

I haven't used it since max5 to be honest, but I doubt its been removed. For character models in Quake (ie. models without alpha polys) it was very useful. 
I've got max, but the program is so huge I never seem to get grip on it. Same as blender. I know both are programs with lots of efforts.

On this moment I can delete the triangles in Qmle, and adding a new one restores the original skin texture.

In contrary there are also some that don't.
Drawing straight on them also add the texture both on front and backside. 
Screenshot Whoring 
I would hate to give the impression that the map is almost done by posting more shots. I do indeed have episodic intentions here, which I'll say more about when I have something to show for it.

The majority of the feedback I have gotten has concerned lighting contrast and texture variation. There are several other wooden plank textures in the RT_arbor set, which will vary up the grey wood, but I have't decided which to use yet. The lighting is only marginally better, but I added subtle color values, which I thought looked different and neat enough to show off some new angles: (taken in darkplaces) 
Looks Very Unrealish 
specifically like the Illhaven custom map pack, which is a very good thing. 
You Hit It Right On The Nose 
Illhaven has been one of my single biggest inspirations. 
ye is looking real real good :) 
Looks Cool 
definitely got some atmosphere 
Looking Very Nice 
Hate to be the nitpicking one again, but...

#1 Texture alignment on the grey cobblestones
#2 Roofs normally look different from the inside.
#3 Roof textures clipped off at 45 degrees.

I guess the answer to #2 is to put some wooden beams on the inside of the roofs. The answer to #3 is: Don't build this style of roof then. I've had the same problem in another map. Hrimfaxi's new map has the same issue IIRC although it's less obvious. Look at some real roofs, those seams are always covered up there.

Another concern, which is either very big or very small, depending on perspective, is: It doesn't resemble Quake anymore. :-)

Also, it looks very much like a facade. If those windows were _real_ windows, that would be something else. It always bugged me in Thief that I would see the lit windows and hear people talking and laughing, but could never go inside and see them. It felt like a fake, which is what it was.

Painted-on windows are problematic. Unless they are breakables with rooms behind them. Also, windows are normally set back into the wall a bit.

Try using some more and different kinds of chimneys? 
#2 Roofs normally look different from the inside.

Well yeah, they don't have shingles! Try replacing the inside shingle textures with a wood planks texture. 
Don't "hate" To Nitpick 
That kind of critical feedback is exactly what I need to hear, as it's really hard to stay objective after staring at my own work for hours upon hours. I'll address them one by one.

1: That cobblestone texture simply does not align well, unless I changed the width of the streets, which I am loathe to do at this point. I may conceivably change it, though most other cobblestone textures I have seen are just as non-directional.

2: I agree, the roof's interior should be flat wood planks or somesuch. I've changed this in some places, but not in the area I took that shot in.

3: Roofs at 45 degrees, I assume you are referring to ? This can be rectified with clever stretching, though I don't think you'd notice it in game as much, as you would be seeing the roofs from street level most of the time.

Regarding the windows... I can assure you that you can, in fact, go inside all of the buildings. They are lit with a point light of delay 2 (1/x^2 falloff), light 32 or 23 (depending on size of the window) right in front of the window. In other Nehahra engines, this looked fine, but the overbright gamma of darkplaces oversaturates the window and makes it look too bright, even though the light is not traveling too far. For certain windows where the light ought to travel farther and spill out into the street, I intend to try delay 1, 1/x falloff, though I haven't done so yet.

The window frames, and the wood "X" frames, used to be made from individual brushes. The X frame prefabs were 11 brushes each. Realizing this was insanity, I made up flat textures in photoshop and reduced my brushcount by at least 1000. Do you mean the windows should be inset on the inside or outside? Given the open nature of this map, I'm trying to keep surfaces flat where possible. In certain places where gameplay dictates, I do intend to make the windows transparent and breakable, but it's not realistic to have every one be like that.

I like the idea of chimneys for atmosphere and realism, I'll look into where some more would look good. Do you see the one here? The misc_smokemaker trails are still moving a bit fast to be realistic, but they are there.

I'm aware it's not your typical quake scene, I've never been big into blood and spikes style maps myself, I think it will become appropriate in context. 
Don't "hate" To Nitpick

Really? Oh ok then.

Those wood textures are shit. They're horrible. The graininess and contrast on them is ugly on its own, but is all the worse because the material supposedly being represented is wood grain. They look like they were molested by an Unsharp Mask filter. Twice.

What stuns me is they are - I assume - from a professional source. Ditch them if you actually want your map to look like a nocturnal medieval townscape by firelight instead of the inside of my cooker.

Yes, that's what I was referring to. And you're right that they will be viewed from floor angle. But it might still be easy to fix if you devise some kind of clever "cover-up."

I meant that the windows should be inset on the outside with little ledges below them. Unfortunately I'm missing the English words here just as I was missing "shingles"... Window sills? As it is, the scenery looks about as much like a medieval European city as ... the inside of Kell's cooker.

I'm aware of the brushcount implications etc. and what you say is perfectly understandable.

Kell: The textures are by Undule, from an unfinished Unreal total conversion project IIRC (Real Tournament = RT?). Same source as "Day of the Lords". I agree they look a bit unrealistic here. I also agree that the wood textures in Knave are damn good (and underused) ;-) That's just empty theory though because the author of course decides these things. ^^ RT_* are very good for stone and stuff like doors though.

Chimneys: I was thinking more of the "industrial" English ones. You have a "brick" on the roof and several pipes coming from it in a row. Typically right on top of the house. Not medieval but atmospheric.

I would suggest breaking up the facades a bit (portals? arcades? ever see medieval entrances?), but your project is already hitting all sorts of boundaries. 
Oh And... 
Stairs. Old towns are chock-full of different kinds of stairways, steep ramps and *very narrow* passages between houses.

If you're going Lovecraftian, check out slanted stairs.

And even cobblestone roads are in reality very uneven, in fact they are little mountain ranges. Carriages and weak underground have made them like this. Don't be afraid to make the roads 3D, it's realistic. Higher in the middle with parallel dents in them and water in the dents. You can also slant them in parallel to the houses.

Another typical thing is that the houses themselves are asymmetrical because part of them has sagged away. The main horizontal support beams on old European houses will always be either slanted or slightly U-shaped, or both. Really. Sometimes also the whole house is A-shaped a bit. Slanted walls and floors! There will be no 90 degree angles. And around, behind and between the houses will be wooden shacks and stables. And the streets will be FILTHY. I'm talking little pools here. You know in Rome they had these treadstones, so people could cross the street without getting really dirty feet.

There will be unused spaces between houses, too. And burned down houses. The last war can't be long ago. And empty dark windows.

Also, space between buildings will probably be either bigger or really narrow (a man's width.)

-> Geometry looks much less neat than in your shots. 
There will be no 90 degree angles.

All of what you say is true, but QBSP isn't going to like that a bit :) 
I Always Liked 
the medieval / plagued village level in Painkiller. 
QBSP isn't going to like that a bit :)

Yeah, I was being extreme. It would have to be translated to the game of course. Like just using some slanted walls and ceilings, and a malformed house or two, symbolically so to speak, to liven it up. I meant to create a pile of material that he could just use where he wants, not copy an original to a T.

It's clear. 
this is quake! No unrealistic expectations... For example you probably can't do that much with the ground/roads or the player will get stuck easily with the qbsp errors in the hull generation. But it could be cool to try? 
can't you do triangle terrain for the roads? 
Forget it guys, even quake3 shits on the detailed 'natural-like' maps with subtle angles all over the place (Sock`s PoM)
And we are talking engine 2 generations behind that 
can't you do triangle terrain for the roads?

Maybe with a clip brush over all the triangles... 
DarkPlaces Water Stuff 
looks almost as good as the Sauerbraten water. 
Nice Nice 
both reflection and refraction unevenness there. 
Ooh Nice 
actually looks like real water, in quake! Feels weird and new. Like a new pair of underwear, at first it's constricting, but then it becomes a part of you [/garth] 
GeForce 2 Sux ! 
Oh well... 
Shots Of SickBase 
I have been making another level for Quoth, just one massive level, cause I realised the downside of making six small levels is that I cant watch demos (nobody sent me any, anyway), cause you cant record multi-map demos (can you?).

So far this thing only runs on AguirRe's engine:

Will have a version (with rocks surrounding) ready for testing in a day or two.

So far it looks like its gonna have a lot of monsters, I've populated about half of it so far.

Contact me if you wanna be on the list to test it, when it is ready for testing I'll probably be just as impatient about finishing it off as I was for DejaVu, so if you do wanna test it you'll have a couple of days to do so and if you havent got back to me then it'll probably end up out anyway! 
That Looks Quite Good 
although some in level shots would mae it easier to judge.

Great skybox selection though. 
turn on the ligth please 
turn on the ligth please 
Multiple Demos 
You can record sequences of demos over many maps. In the original engines they wouldn't play back crrectly, but some(if not most) more recent ports correct this behaviour somehow... 
I havent quite got the lighting right yet then.. I have set the sun brightness at about 115, I did have it at about 300 but it was too bright (I need to adjust the angle too, to match the background in thew skybox). I'll try it at 140-150 next time.

I took these shots late last night (about 3:30), and had to stop working to get sum sleep!

Damn thing takes about 20 mins to compile (fast vis, normal light), so its a pain to tweak the settings. Im trying to go for a dusk type feel. 
If You're Using 
my Light util, don't forget to add -fast -gate 1 to the cmd line to speed things up considerably. You can also tweak indoor/outdoor lighting separately using -sunlight 0 and -nolight respectively.

And of course you don't need to vis just to check lighting ... 
-fast -gate 1? 
Does that affect the quality of the outcome?

I have been using the -sunlight (115 - was the last I tried), what will '0' do?
What does -nolight do?

Im also using -light 50 to set a minimum light value for dark areas.

BTW I LOVE your engine. I was in a panic when fitzquake wouldnt run the level (un-vised I think at the time) and I tried a few other engines, with a bit of a sweat on, finally got to yours - it worked! I was sooooooo relieved.
I have set it up now so most of the monsters spawn as player progresses through level, I think that helps too.

Vis-data size is 7-8000k on a fast vis, what might it be after a full vis. Should I use -fast -gate 1 for the final full compile?

So many questions for tech people!! 
Again, read aguirRe's documentation!

And his engines will handle almost anything you throw at em. I managed to break them once or twice but that was with a leaking Warp map. 
The map is looking very nice. 
looks fucking cool. :o 
Documentation A Bit Confusing... 
I ended up reading the aged qmap forums, but Im gonna be reading it forever - three years worth of entries with void links (what happened to planetquake BTW?)

Seriously - I dont know what -nolight does
I can use trial and error to get sunlight right
Anyone wanna point me in the right direction with using Quoth sound function, i.e. what bit-rate and sampling rate can they be (Ive got some cool metal music stuff to put in the level!)

Sorry Im not brighter!

P.S. Im glad you like the look of it. 
Oh Also 
Im scared to put strobe effects in the level. Is my reluctance wise? 
Ricky calibrate your monitor. Those pics are way too dark, brighten them up.. I know it's quite complicated but give it a try.

About the map, it looks a little messy. Overdetailed, badly lit, bad texture alignment. I see you're trying to push engine limits, but that's no excuse for no visblockers at all, that's just bad construction. Use your brushes wisely (e.g., the railing could easily do with a lot less vertical supports). 
I'll answer in the Mapping Help thread. 
Im scared to put strobe effects in the level. Is my reluctance wise?

Yes, yes it is, I nearly had seizures in multiple places in your last pack. flickering/blinking lights are okay as accents, but don't light an entire area with them. an entire 19" monitor flashing in your face is not pleasant. 
Use vid_vsync 1

Then at least you won't see tearing as you have your epileptic fits. 
Ah hmm maybe it was my monitor... sucky work flatscreen.. my bad 
Truly, avoid minlight. There's no excuse to use it! 
I Like Minlight! 
Perfect excuse to use it:

It get rids of totally black areas of your map! 
Fine if you don't use -nominlight option in your litgh tool :P

This option allow you to have complete black areas if you use antilight (i.e light with negative value), while in other places, the minlight value allow to limit shadow darkness to something less "dark"... check if aguirRe's light tool have this option ;) 
... can also be a -nominlimit option... depending of the tool... :P 
JPL Makes Me Wonder... 
Has anybody ever done a completely antilight "lit" level? Start out with a high minlight, and use the technique he describes to refine it?

Of course, it would probably be a stupid idea to do it arse-backwards like that, but hey, you never know till you try. If nothing else, you could do it just to say you did it! :) 
pics look great ;) keep the good work! 
vis blockers, guys. It's quake, not a flight sim. :)
Looks grand, Ricky, I hope it will be playable. 
Haven't really gone into using them properly, or even local minlights. Davinci painted on a black canvas because light creates what you see, what comes first is always darkness.

Following that idea you could antilight a high minlight / sunlight map or else try local minlighting the whole map with sunlight for outdoors and occassional point lights only for highlighting.

As opposed to chucking torches everywhere.

It'd take a long time but produce a very hand crafted and lit map. 
It get rids of totally black areas of your map!

Wow, why not just set it to 255 then? You wouldn't have to light the map at all!

It's lazy. You can never use shadow to intentionally hide things or direct attention elsewhere, you reduce the contrast of all the lighting in your map, and unlit areas wind up looking worse because all the textures are rendered at the same flat value instead of just being black. If a part of your map is dark, light it yourself. It's guaranteed to be better.

Look at efdm12 - it's gloomy and there's a lot of cool things done with light and shadow, but Frib avoided blackness with his actual lighting, not with minlight. 
Multiple Level Demos 
You can start recording a demo, play through multiple levels, and then use demtool to split it up into individual .dem files to play in your engine of choice. SDA marathons are recorded this way afaik. 
Ive been using a minlight of 35. I think its good cause the sunlight is really low to, and I have the sun mangle set so that the sun is going down and the shadows are really long. I dont know if you have ever spent a lot of time running around as dusk out in the country but I think you'd find that the contrasts start to fade, and gradually your eyes start to adjust to the darkness.

I have put a lot of lights in the map as-well as using the sunlight settings, I dont think I would be able to get the desired effect using light entities only.

'Wow, why not just set it to 255 then?'

Because it would look shit, and we wouldnt want that now, would we?!?! 
seems like you do 
35 = 255? 
Has anybody ever done a completely antilight "lit" level? Start out with a high minlight, and use the technique he describes to refine it?

Of course, it would probably be a stupid idea to do it arse-backwards like that, but hey, you never know till you try. If nothing else, you could do it just to say you did it! :)

Awesome idea... It'd be worth a try as an experiment anyway.

I agree that minlight sucks, but it's great when you're speedmapping (or I guess, just lazy). If you have more time though and want a similar effect, low level lights with a huge range work better I find, eg light 50, wait 0.05. Put one of those lights next to a normal 200 brightness light (which you placed near an actual light fixture hopefully) and you'll get subtle light that extends into the darkness but doesn't look bland. 
I did use antilights in a few places in rubicon, but since then I haven't becuase they are very hard to use in a natural way. It always seems to look like a bite was taken out of the lighting or something. Maybe I haven't found the optimal way to use it (i think i was using it to darken spots in a sunlit room, which might be the problem. Maybe in a room where the positive light isn't so flat, the negative light would fit in better. 
Could Be Used 
to create some interesting results if approached conceptually like with dodge and burn painting in photoshop and gimp. You normally start off with a canvas at a medium point (128,128,128 - gray) and from there your dodge setting creates a light contrast and your burn setting creates dark contrast.

Say you start with a min light of 255, and you use antilight for darker contrast and additive light entities for brighter. At the very least, it would eliminate the problem where vertices with slight angler differences create a huge light/dark contrast that look unrealistic and you have to place ambient lights to soften the results.

Thanks, Mr Fribbles for this idea. I don't know how realistic it is to go this route as of yet, but it is something to think about. 
I Created A Quick And Dirty Test 
I took a chunk of a current map I'm working on, and created a gray texture using a color from from the mid grays of the Quake palette, as well as a gray sky texture. I replaced source lights with anti-lights under the beams above the stairs. Minlight was set to 255.

One obvious problem you'll see on the side walls, the anti-light created shadows create their own shadows, but it is likely a problem that can be minimized with some tuning of the entity settings for falloff. 
On Minlight 
i agree with lunaran on this. i used minlight on all of my early maps and the major complaint with them from everyone was usually the poor lighting (sometimes my penchant for horde combat though :P).

my later maps i used less and less minlight until i did one without it completely. i found the extra contrast you get from not using it is very desirable. it's more work, but it pays off in the end because it looks so much better. 
A Slower And Cleaner Test 
same scene but done with -extra4 -soft and the addition of two lights in the fore using FitzQuake instead of WinQuake. What is interesting here (at least to me) is the softening effect where the vertical line blends and where the faces receive multiple lighting/darkening sources. It's worth exploring as a potential lighting paradigm. 
I Dont Know About The Tech Stuff 
but headthump that shot looks very cool. 
That Reminds Me Of 
the glquake bug where all lightmaps are inverted when gl_texsort is 0 in 32bpp mode. (or was it gl_texsort 1?) 
...XeNoN did the lighting in one of his levels using the high minlight - antilight combination. I think it may have been his "outside of competition" 100 brush level Centurion. I may be completely wrong of course. 
More Minlight 
Yes, I know about eyes adjusting. :)

At dusk when the sun is at a low angle you're getting a lot of scattered ambient light from the upper atmosphere. So, yes, there isn't much contrast between what's in direct sunlight and what's shaded from the sun, but to reduce all the other light contribution to the scene other than the sun to a single universal value is too broad an assumption to jump to. Nooks, crannies, and gaps where geometry meets other geometry, and areas farther from the sky, will all be darker than areas that are more exposed to open air. You get a lot of soft gradation between the two, soft enough that any minlight contribution will throw it way off. Having it makes a scene really pop with realism. Replacing it with a flat value will ruin it. 
would ambient occlusion be possible in a quake1 light compiler? o.o 
And What's Nice 
(that probably most here know) at sunset is that the stuff in the sun is orange (direct sunlight) while stuff in the shade is blue (scattered sunlight from the blue sky). You can notice this in the real world if you play close attention. 
How much minlight did you used to use? 
Who Wants To Test It? 
Its by no means finished, but I want some feedback.

Finished version will incude:

Some sort of perimeter for the complex
Extended start
Start map

Anyone wanna test it and make me aware of any other issues than those above?

BTW, The lighting prob needs some adjustments too!!

Ask me to mail a copy. 
How much minlight did you used to use?

Personnally in a range of 25 up to 35, depending of the ambiance I want to have... And also with sunlight set into the 100-150 range..

And I don't forget to add -nominlimit/-nominlight in light tool command line ;)

Well, you have to experiment to find your way: it is just a question of taste... 
would ambient occlusion be possible in a quake1 light compiler?

I don't see why not. I wanted something like that in q3map2, which would basically do an occlusion test against skybrushes to get exactly the effect I described, but q3map2 is nearly impossible to compile since ttimo decided to add nearly functionless dependencies on very specific releases of all kinds of random source libraries (like PNGLIB ...) 
i don't have my really old maps, but my first ones had pretty high minlights... probably around 40-50 or something.
i think i lowered it more and more every time until i got to nesp09, which has 35.

marb and deadcity had 0 though.

as for ambient occlusion, would it be easier just to test how close a face is to other faces and just give a light value based on that alone? might not work well with huge faces vs small ones though.
i don't really know the first thing about light programs though, just tossing it out there. :P 
I still don't understand why anyone uses it. As Lunaran pointed out, it makes shadows less shadowy, and washes out the whole visual experience of playing the level.

It sucks. 
just realized I never posted the second shot intended for #3883

same scene (using minlight at 250 and anti-light entities as subtractive value) but done with -extra4 -soft and the addition of two lights in the fore using FitzQuake instead of WinQuake. What is interesting here (at least to me) is the softening effect where the vertical line blends and where the faces receive multiple lighting/darkening sources. It's worth exploring as a potential lighting paradigm.  
Q3map2 Already Has An Ambient Occlusion Hack 
It doesn't trace against skybrushes though, simply nearby geometry. Look at -dirty, -dirtscale, etc. It also have skylight, which is very similar to what Lun describes.

So I dunno what he is bitching about. Unless it's the q3map2 source, which seems all kinds of fucked up. 
thanks Nitin, and Metlslime, I recall that error as I managed to generate it one time when screwing up a tutorial posted on Quakesrc. 
Neither of those are quite what I wanted. I don't think skylight gives you attenuation control, or something. I know I panned it, I just forgot why. :) 
Because I Can... 
lighting still looks flat, dont know if its lit properly yet but that's one area in most your maps that seems to be consistent.

otherwise, nice texture choices. 
really interesting texture combination, I like! I agree with what nitin said about the lighting, but presumably it's just not done yet.

Architecture looks good and the overall look is very neat, but maybe a bit boxy in the first shot, there's a lot of right angles. Good work so far though. 
the lighting is bad because there is none :P
Thanks tho :) 
That blue door looks cool 
Looks cool ! 
Looks Pretty Awesome... first glance and after a few seconds it looks a bit of a hodgepodge... still love to play it though. :) 
looks great man, god job!!! 
Seems That 
it's technieval. I wonder if the tin panels rattle if you shoot at them. :) 
That's true it itended to be a conservative medival map but, now there are not really medival elements

But don't worry the final version won't have any medival elements or textures. ;) 
But don't worry the final version won't have any medival elements or textures. ;)<\q>

Aww, why not? I'm getting tired of all the base maps (trinca). I want to see some medieval stuff! 
forgot its a / not a \ 
That Looks Mad! 
Hell, I say go for it! Enforcers v Ogres, Grunts v Knights! Quake was always a fusion of eras anyway. 
Looks really nice.

I'd suggest going for the fusion style as well . . . 
I'd Suggest 
using some lights with lower brightnesses and much bigger radii. In that shot I see a dark map with a lot of tiny lights highlighting a bunch of spots that aren't really visually contiguous. 
that's probably because I'm playing Doom3 at the moment ;) And there will we also be a lot of viscera and blood.

but I think the high contrast gives a little bit more atmosphere. And making the outside lighter results in a reduced contrast with the skybox
But the interior will be lighter.

fusion-style yes/no well I haven't descided yet I'm consider putting some Nehahra ents in it
The other reason is that you don't need to download the skybox, because it's from Nehahra 
70s Are Back 
It's Doom3 textures for sure, but I'm not sure if it is Doom3 game: is it ?

In anyway, the sky outside looks disco ! 
but I think the high contrast gives a little bit more atmosphere

okay, fine.

can we rename this the "unquestioning praise for screenshots" thread? 
black and white texture is wierd, kind of ugly, and doesn't fit with the rest of the textures. also, the use of the yellow and white 4box lights is not good. consider using the square, white lights with the copper trim and the yellow version for the yellow 4box lights.

also, lighting d3 style is not a good thing. the major problem with lighting a d3 map is to get nice contiguous light sources without overloading the video card. q1 doesn't have that problem, so you should take full advantage of it.

the brushwork itself is kinda neat. something that's not seen much, sort of like a techy castle. i think when the textures are fixed up and the lighting is smoothed out a bit, it could look pretty cool. :) 
thunderbirds are go..., that great modeller, Gerry Anderson.

Now find me a small island in the Pacific. 
wow that is some next level shit madfox! are you gonna make it shoot lasers? 
"Unquestioning Praise" 
...would be a better title than "unquestioning capitulation to Lunaran's criticism." 
. . . 
Everyone want's to see more Quake maps. Encouragement helps that happen. If you can change the mappers opinion on how they're building to what you think is a better design concept then everyone's happy.

But you're not going to do it from a screenshot - you need to betatest. Maybe Unquestioning praise isn't such a bad rename (although very sarcastic) for the thread. The members of func are jaded because nobody, ever, posts screenshots of something that is just ugly and bad.

Granted now and again stuff crops up that needs input by people with more experience, but hardly ever.

rudl - I'd suggest changing the skybox. What you have there is a dark map in the middle of a glowing dusky void. Don't change the lighting; I like high contrast myself, instead change the skybox to something darker. Stars or maybe even pure black void, so that the light in the map reflects it.

It'll make it feel more like a real place and less like a map, immersion being the key. 
By Hipshot 
nice shots for that Hipshot map... is that Quake 3? Lighting from the sky looks very good indeed, how was it done? 
yep thats q3, you can just make out the RL in one shot. 
After your comments about the lights in MY map, I put more light ents in and reduced the minlight!

Did you look at it? (I dont know how up to date the copy I mailed you was, will have been big, un-vised and nasty, but lit)

Its compiling now - browning nicely! 
I did get it, sorry I kind of shirked on looking at it. you see, I bought this box, and it's orange, and full of irresistable toys ... 
I Can't Even Buy That 
until this friday! When did it come out on your side of 'the pond'? 
October Tenth 
two thousand and seven 
More Eyecandy 
...continuing the theme of id-mixed with other stuff. 
ohh that looks cool! nice nice... but fix the misaligned wizmet tex 
very old school nice! 
that looks like pure id to me...

lighting looks pretty good. 
Link Is 404? 
It's Not 404 For Me 
Looks ID1 to me... The blue and red and the button's metal kinda clash but maybe it looks better in game.
Relating to how you think when it was constructed, parts were plastered with dull white and red plaster, partly tiles were left in the open, but what is the blue stuff and what is the runic metal doing there and the riveted stuff in the ceiling... I think it's mixed, but I understand if you are experimenting so that it all doesn't repeat the same old style... 
Ah, Its Working Now.. 
I think it looks cool, v nice brushwork! 
Interesting Stuff 
Looking forward to it. 
How Do You 
make a sound play?

I know how to make a sound play but the sound is always sourced from the entity that is 'playing it', I mean the source of the sound physically in the 3D map. What I want to do is make sound play where it remains audible (at a constant volume) regardless of how far away from the entity you are.

Alternatively I could trigger the same sound to come from a group of identical entities all at the same time, with sound entities positioned in different parts of the map, so that as you moved away from one entity you are aproaching another, so the sound never fades out completely.

The reason is that I want to put music into a level, like in Warp. 
I Did It 
With a Quoth ambient_generalpurpose with attenuation -1 so that it was heard globally. A bug with that is that the position of the music changes depending which direction you face.

To do it in normal Quake I think there's a hack (teaching old progs .dat thread again) but not sure if it'll let you do looping music - just trigger_once ambient sounds.

To make something be heard constantly attenuation -1 is pretty much your only option, unless you burn a cd (Travail) or do some coding (This Onion). Or replace one of the ambient wavs that already exists - you put the same ambient_whatever in the map with attenuation -1 and it'll play like music.

I experimented with having one in each cardinal point of a map, and even though it did work the bug was still discernible and the overflow for sound channels occasionally crashed the engine - even aguirRe's. I could have got it working, probably, but it was too risky and low priority.

Should have posted in the mapping help thread ;) 

"attenuation" "-1"

I would have posted in the mapping help, but it seemed to me that this is a hot-spot for mapping help after yesterdays stuff about "Teaching old progs.dat new tricks" cropping up.

Hmmm. Methinks new map pack will be created with my original soundtrack - some guitar only thrash metal that me and my mate steeve layed down earlier this year - was going to put it in my imminent release, only I couldnt figure out how to do it.

If you look at the mapping help thread over the last three weeks you will find me querying how to do this to no avail! 
Sounds Without Direction 
I've read on inside3d if you put two entities emitting sound at '4096 4096 4096' and '-4096 -4096 -4096' then the sound is directionless, so you might wanna try that. Also, you should know that anything more complicated than a single, sourced sound is going to require some custom coding. You can't precache new sounds with the hacks, sadly. 
I managed to get my sounds in the level in Quoth, and I was happy with it except for the fact that if you strayed away from the entity it would fade out then be in-audible. So hopefully the 'attenuation' '-1' is what I was missing. I dont mind if the music is coming from one direction, if anyhting that will give a cool kind of spinning effect during gameplay!

To do the sounds without direction, if I put them for example at '2048 2048 2048' and '-2048 -2048 -2048' that would have the same effect right? ie it doesnt have to be 4096? 
That should have the same effect if you never leave that cube within the map, I've not tested the idea out before. 
please post in the correct thread next time. 
BTW, a 404 error is different than the server timing out. :) 
It was a 503 actually. 
Work In Progress 
Just a preview of my current project...

Feel free to comment 
looks great!!!

fuck why are your rocks always so sexy? :| you must teach me this one of these days :) 
am i seeing tanks or wtf? quake doesn't have tanks didn't you know? 
nice break from the ordinary style!
The rock texture is ungood. :/ 
I always find your works quirky and interesting and departing from expectations in unusual ways and the screenshot is no exception. Keep it up. :D 
Relating to how you think when it was constructed, parts were plastered with dull white and red plaster, partly tiles were left in the open,

Maybe it's a basement with partial veneer on the foundation. ;)

but what is the blue stuff

Jam. Blueberry jam.

and what is the runic metal doing there

Looking cool.

and the riveted stuff in the ceiling...

Ensuring that gameplay remains riveting.

I think it's mixed, but I understand if you are experimenting so that it all doesn't repeat the same old style...

Actually it's just that I have awful taste and "like" it when styles clash as much as possible in really horrific ways. That's really what it's all about. 
Nice Shot 
But is that a hl1 prefab tank? Looks familiar anyway.

Looks interesting and I like the low angle sunlight, casting the long shadows. 
I Can Certainly Abide Tanks In Quake 
but ijed makes a good point - they're real-world looking tanks, Half-Life tanks. Where's the idbase tanks? :)

There's an interesting conceptual design question - what would the vehicles of today's games look like if made to fit into the Quake aesthetic? Kind of stumpy and lumbering, with lots of bevels, to be sure. A few cyan-fullbright running lights, with some exposed enforcer-backpack-looking mechanicals in the back. And brown. 
These are indeed HL1 prefabs I found on the web: this tanks are Panzer (or Tiger.. I'm not sure). I have to modify their textures has they are based on Africa Korps camouflage sand colors... not cool here: They will turn into brown-greenish later, don't worry ;)

And gibbie point is valid, till today, there were no tanks in Quake... however, I'm working on a ww2 theme / project, so tanks are mandatory! BTW I have no idea if quake / Quoth / Quoth2 (??) monsters would fit in such a theme... I'll see that later...

Also, concerning the rock textures: any suggestions to change it ?

Oh, and concerning the sun angle: I spent a lot of time to make somethinng realistic given the position of the sun in the skybox :D 
Also, concerning the rock textures: any suggestions to change it ?

Maybe something with a color palette closer to the skybox you're using. 
I looked for that kind of texture, but it quite hard to find a good grey-red rock texture.. Well, like the tanks, I'll have to modify an existing texture to fit better with the skybox... I can't see other possibilities, except if somebody have what I'm looking for, or can direct me to a particular rock texture that would fit.... Anyway, thanks for the help ;) 
The Rock Texture 
in IkBlue in quite good and underused. Maybe try gray scaling that bad boy and see how it fits. 
What Would The Tanks Look In Quake? 
Looted leman-russ tanks, just with less color!

like this

and ww2 theme in Quake must be banned. Im serious - its a blasphemy!. There are too many WW2 games already 
Rock Texture... 
... I would change the colour of the skybox. The redness is overpowering. 
Shot Looks V.nice 
I like the IDBase crane!

What editor do you use? I was thinking of upgrading to WC 3.3 cause 1.6 is a pain in the arse, texture-lock only works if you dont want to rotate things. The crates I can see in the shot look rotated, and tex are lined up fantastically. 
Just say no to the light sprite. There is a reason why it was rarely used, even in the original game. 
The Hl1 Tanks 
Are Tigers, I believe. And Nehahra had the Humvee's in some levels - I'm going to be stealing it for a current map.

I remember one level in basic q2 (not Lazarus) that had a working tank turret that was excellent, open area with a black parked tank with a dozer blade on the front, you had to open it up at the back (keycard) and chuck a grenade inside to kill the gunner, great stuff. 
Mmmm, Sprite! 
I use 'em

If it wasnt fer sprites, we never would have had polygonal stuff, then there would never have been cool stuff like HDR Lighting, bump-mapping and whatnot, realtime shadows. Spherical sprites are OK, your never gonna see it from the side. Globes look cool with marsh_lights, different colours!! 
There are too many WW2 games already

I agree on that point, maybe a simple war theme would be enough.... I'll see if I find another tank prefab (Leclerc, T62 or M1 tank would fit better I think).. something more in line with our spatio temporal continuum :P
In anyway, I will tune Tiger's texture to see if it is possible to make it looking better there.

About the editor, I'm using QuArK. It has an embedded terrain generator, but I don't like it: I prefer using Nemesis' terrain generator, and import the terrain file directly in the map.

Oh, and thanks for the texture recommendation: I'll take a look soon to IKBlue texture pack ;)

I also tried with several skybox, and I love this particular one, that looks really cool: thanks Kell for your DragonHeart skybox: it rocks !

Thanks a lot for all the comments and advices ! 
I challenge you to come up with a tank that would be used by an ogre. 
Here are 2 new shots of the modifications I did tonight:


Tiger tanks have been replaced by Russian tanks (T62 and T72), rock texture has been changed as well...

Inertia: Ogre's tank is effectively a challenge ;) but I don't want to start it.. maybe in another project :P

Enjoy ! 
Fucking Links... 
Stop with the orbs already... :) 
I Agree 
Change the orbs for an orb model or something - they're ok floating in the air but look a bit strange (in game) when supposed to be attached or resting on something. 
They Look Fine. 
Ogre Tanks 
The Weapon Factory (weaponf.bsp) had full-ID-style tanks - definitely something an Ogre would drive. 
Thta Looks Cool 
and orginal jpl. 
what's with the anti-orb stuff? it's by no means a bad sprite, and it works well for a light source in the shots. 
tanks in quake has been done before... remember airquake? the most awesome mod ever, better than nehahra! but they're not really quake style tho 
.. are more decorative than functional here... 
The Weapon Factory (weaponf.bsp) had full-ID-style tanks
ID-style, eh... 
that's the stupidest thing i've ever seen! 
Another Case 
Of memory / imagination playing tricks when dealing with old games - you remember it as some majestic fortress towering into the clouds, populated by vicious slant eyed goblins.

Then you go back and it's a bright pink cardboard box with block green stickmen.

Remember that from an Edge article. 
I guess they're worse than I remembered :) 
man, that's gold. thanks neg|ke :) 
...give the rock texture from Hexameron Phase three a go :) 
Hexameron Phase three ? Where can I find this ? 
I think he means Hexameron phase one, it's q1 sp map by NotoriousRay. From memory, it's the HL1 rock texture converted to the quake palette. 
Oh, I can check for HL rock textures: I have the wad at home ;) Thanks for the clue :) 
HL Rock Textures Suck 
The rock texture you're thinking of is one of the brown 256x128 Quake 2 ones. 
I can also look at Q2 rock textures, as I have the wad file at home as well ;) 
I Have The Wad File At Home As Well ;) 
I have the wad file at home as well ;) 
Here's A Tank: 
Are the new crates. 
...getting ahead of myself there :) Hex One indeed. I sure hope NotRay is doing some work on Hex Two.

Anyhoo, I'll shoot it through to you tomorrow JPL. Along with some others that might suit. 
Thanks a lot, I''l look forward patiently to your mail... you rock ! 
I like the way you use minlight and sunlight to light your map. 
About Tanks Prefabs 
Well, I checked the textures placement of the tanks, and unfortunately, they are completely misaligned, so I have to re-texture both of them completely: it sucks...
hhhmmm, at this point I'm able to rebuild them properly (grid aligned) and also to use HL texture set only....
wait and see

Oh, and Ricky, FYI: sunlight equals 150, and minlight equals 25... ;) 
Do you mean the prefabs aldreadt had misalligned textures?

If you just mean the allignment got screwed up when you were positioning them I would just like to say that I had many problems like that in Worldcraft 1.6 but in 3.3 it is all fixed!!

Anyone who is thinking of upgrading to 3.3 ( with the Quakeadapter) I would highly recommend it.

Or am I the only person who was still using 1.6? 
Well... I Am Not Sure... 
The tank prefab I used comes from an HL prefab library, and I guess textures alignment has not exactly the same format in HL .map compared to quake .map.. (not sure...) . so either it was already completely crappy, either the .map import failed somewhere (I'm more "confident" with this possibility)

So now the story is, how much time will I need to realign to grid all polygon corners, and then retexture it properly

Also, when I said I'd like to use HL texture set only it was not only for the tanks, but also globally for the all map.... as I did for SRC and Five Rivers Land that use Doom3 texture set...

I'll see later if it fits or not ;) 
Often If All Textures Are Slightly Misaligned 
you can take off texture lock and move the whole object/assortment of brushes so they match, instead of moving all the textures, which is much more tedious. Then put texture lock on and put the object where you wanted it. But everybody probably knew this trick. 
It is not enough as some textures have also rotated: don't ask me, I don't know why...
Anyway, I will have some nice tank prefabs at the end: this is the most important ;) 
you might have more luck if you did your tank as a model (mdl) and then just make it nonsolid and use clip brushes to block out the basic shape so the player can walk on it.

mdl can be a lot more detailed, texture alignment isn't a problem, and it won't affect qbsp or vis. only thing is light, as it won't cast or receive shadows.

but with mdl, you could even make it move around and stuff (like if you had some in the distance or something). 
is cool.

P.S. there are a couple of Q2 textures that could pass for tank/catepillar treads. Maybe you could try those. 
tank is true! 
Supertank Is Badass 
I propose that we only map tanks from now on. 
Really nice indeed ! 
Now That's A Quake Tank 
Just as a reminder: SM138. 
MATSP3 - Q1 Sp Level 
vehicle made from brushes - 1st try to make a texture (that part with logo) and I have to align it better in photoshop and add rest of the parts...

and a part of the map with details (roof have to many brushes - it have to be changed :() 
Looks Muted 
but that could be good once the lighting is in! Hope it won't be too open in the final version.
The rocks look quite cool too, some nice environments to move around in and kill monsters, with all the passages, ramps and columns etc... that could possibly work in multiplayer too. 
Very Brown 
But looks quite nice - the second shot is an internal?

Looks Q2 style as well. Maybe try using some (subtle) coloured lights to offset the texture set - yellows and reds. 
I Was Going To Say 
...that your engine sucks until I realized it was a worldcraft shot. :) Looks pretty good - the rocks especially are natural and quake-y. 
it's VHE shot ;)

more soon :> 
No Tanks... 
I made some modifications on the map, particularly texturing (I used only HL and Doom3 sets) but this is not the most important...
Is the forklift looking cool or not ?

Oh, and thanks to distrans who provided the cool rock texture that fit well with the skybox ;) 
Fork truck is sooo cute...
Tasty rock texes too! 
Tank And Truck 
Thank for the comments ;)

So now, same map, but with a "4-tubes" Tank and a truck (I had to rework both prefab a little bit in order to be able to build the map...)

wWhat do you think ? 
Quake does fantasy really well, but not "realistic vehicle with human proportions."

I dislike both of them -- make an idbase tank or something like that! (seriously) 
The Truck Looks Nice 
But when you stand closer, it's clearer that the tank's guns look like tiny water cannons i.e. unrealistically narrow. (And the Quake engine doesn't do narrow stuff very well anyway). 
Enforcer Super-tank 
Totally bad-ass, someone needs to feature this in a map.

JPL - what inertia and Fern said. Good otherwise. 
Have To Agree 
The tank and truck look a bit out of place, and probably would in any Q1 map. 
Already Explained On #terrafusion 
Let me explain the storyline (at least my starting point idea for this map):

This is war on Earth (you will hear that ingame...) as Quake armed forces are invading us now... And just back from a new mission, you release your base on earth has been infested as well... and you have to kick these bastards' ass, etc.. etc.. bla bla bla...

Well, the concept is that you are on Earth, with humans, with human military stuff, so why should it be "Quakish" ? BTW, it doesn't mean it will not be Quakey ingame... On the outside area the soldier bestiary will fit perfectly IMHO, and inside the base, it will be another story (Ogres in a surgery room, etc...)..

Wait and see... Five River Lands map was also flamed when I presented the first shots (too dark, too "Doom3-ish", etc...) Let me the chance to finish the map, and we will discuss after the release ;) 
but if it's future earth, the forklift etc look out of place.

But something like the tank that someone lse posted a shot of which look futuristic (and quakey) would be a better fit I think. 
I Think 
the truck looks cool. Particularly the truck. Fern is right about the barrell of the tank, but apart from that they look cool also.

Honestly though I think the rock texture is cool and the road texture looks cool but the texture of grass - the ground in between the rock and the road - I think it clashes a bit, certainly with the skybox. I would try and find a texture different to, but similar colours of the rock texture. Maybe. I dunno, it looks cool! 
I think you are mapping for the wrong game
try Halflife or Medal of Honor 
Mapping For The Wrong Game ? 
I don't think so..

And I'm very surprise how much people are so "conservative": can somebody explain me why people are so reluctant when new things come? It doesn't make sense, as I try for each map to find new "setup" (texture use, ambience, story,..), to push the game close to its limits, to do in fact things that have not yet done (AFAIK)...

I have to admit Quake has its own setup, that it has its own "world", but come on, something new will not kill the game at all, it will just enlight how much it is possible to do new things with some imaginations...

My 2 cents... :P 
2 Cents As Well 
When people say 'Quake doesn't do realism well' what they mean is 'nobody's done realism well in Q1 yet'. 
Well, I think there's something there though. The lighting engine, the movement, and the feel of Quake are all very fantasy oriented. Scenes tend to be dark in Quake and that doesn't mesh well with realism. Also, it generally uses low res textures and lightmaps which further detaches it from doing realistic scenes well.

Quake has many strengths but realism, IMO, isn't one of them. 
Its not about 'conservatism' its more about coherency and style. Those HL models look completely out of place in a typical quake environment.
If you want to use the 'realistish' models you would need to use the fitting realistic textures (probably from kingpin, SoF1 or HL as well ) and ditch the IDbase and the 'floating ball' sprites. But then how would quake monsters look in such surroundings? It might actually work...

So Im taking my words back. Try to pull it off in Quake and we`ll praise you if you sucseed (and eat you alive for the realistic vehicles in an e1m1-styled map!)

And 'nobody's done realism well in Q1 yet' because... Quake doesnt do realism well.
Lets see: quake player has eyes in the center of his 'body' and runs at the speed of a car! Thus you can never make a realistic environment that would look and feel right at the same time. Its either huge or super-cramped. The gameplay works much better in spacious surroundings. And the engine/compilers are not really suited for small-scale detail. But then again something like 'realist-ish' outdoors city scene could work. 
...and Just For The Record, 
that new rock texture comes courtesy of Lunaran. There is no doubt...the guy rocks! 
Realism In Quake... 
Quake has many strengths but realism, IMO, isn't one of them.

you can never make a realistic environment that would look and feel right at the same time

So I think this is challenging to prove that it is possible to be "realistic" in Quake (not like in HL / COD2 / etc...), and that's exactly what I'm looking for in this map.

Wait and see now... 
Just the let the man WORK! 
I Say 
Go for it! I mean as long as theres enough space around the tanks/trucks to maneouvre in a Quake style fashion, then whats to disinguish a truck from an ID-crate, as far as giving cover goes!

Id really like to se someone do a level with pain skin progs. I had it workin' once a long time ago - pain skins and blood splats/gibs stuck yto walls behind where enemies had been hit. I had five increment pains skins for enforcers, dogs and grunts. That computer died a long time ago, and I couldnt program it anymore.

It would be cool to see pain skins in Quoth / Quoth2! Its easy enough to draw blood onto a skin ythat already exists. I mean its not going to be realistic like Soldier of Fortune style (damage localised to the body part hit) vut it looks cool nonetheless. 
"Just the let the man WORK!"

Hey now, I support his drive and desire - if he can do it, that's awesome! I've never seen a realistic or modern scene done well in the Quake engine before but that doesn't mean that it CAN'T happen. Just that it's increasingly unlikely. :) 
It Won't Be "realistic" 
...The guy just wants to put some damn tanks in his level. 
Realism is quite subjective... What is realism in Quake game ? For Quake it is impossible to be as realistic as COD2 / SoF / HL2 / etc... I have to be honest, it is a fucking hard challenge, but I think the effort on the ambience is the way to go... and alos on the design layout... nice details touch could make the difference (tanks, forklift, trucks, etc...)... For the gameplay, I have som ideas to investigate...
At least I will try to do something as real as possible, with static stuff, trying to repsect the "Quakeness Harmony of the Universe" :P ... I'm also thinking to the purists... :D

And now: let me work ... I go back mapping :) 
Sure, Give It A Try 
Nothing wrong with experimenting and unusual themes. Just make sure the dimensions fit. In Quake, everything is pretty small or stout (models) so small or thin brushes look odd in relation. Realistic vehicles might work, but only if they're not like three times as large as the player. 
Scale Is Key... 
In Quake, nothing is scaled according to real world dimensions. The player typically starts on a 16-unit slipgate textured brush which is > 1/4 of his/her player height, yet he/she can walk up it with no problem -- that would be like taking 2 or 3 stairs at at a time in the real world!

Also, the native textures in Quake don't effectively show detail: a textured wall won't look as good as the skin on the player's double-barrelled shotgun at a very close proximity.

There "may" be a balance though that involves brushes based off of the player height and scaled-down or 24-bit textures, but it would be a difficult one to strike.

Good luck ;-) 
Another issue you might have to contend with is the lighting model, as it's one of the visual differences between half-life and quake, which might explain why "realistic" things suit one and not the other. Half Life does radiosity, which washes things out. That's kinda annoying from a style point of view, quake lets you do great gloomy places with the control you have over where light goes. But it also means that intricate geometry can get very hard shadows in quake. This makes the object look unnatural in it's environment.

An alternative is to make all your detailed things alias models rather than bsp models, but that's a lot of work. And it's not to say that detailed objects in quake can't be lit in such a way that they look convincing. It'll just require care. 
Neg|ke / Generic_maps / Preach 
Thanks a lot for all the good points you mentionned there: I'll try as far as possible to take them into account. 
do I need ID licenses to drive them? 
New Monster 
I tried to make a new Quake1 monster. Pyrogirl.
I remodelled the Atlantis babe and added frames.
I was searching for a good flamethrower code to suit her, but sofar I didn't have luck. I watched the quoth code.

Now I'm trying with sprites like flame.spr and explod.spr But it still doesn't work out I planned. Also texturing is rather flat. 
nice tits :p 
Lara Croft Porno Wonder Woman! 
In Quake!

Heheh, looks good though. But don't use sprites for the fire, they never look good when scaled up. A model could work well. 
It Makes Ruliano Look Like Doom 3 
Hahaha! Hahahahahahahaha!!!! 
That looks really cool. Reminds me of Malice!
Would go really well with Malice texture set.

I wonder what it (she) would look like with some bilinear filtering? Cant you program it to use the fireball model already in quake - the one on the hard difficulty bit on the Quake 'start' map? Would look better and save modeling. 
Mange Babe Anyone? 
Careful with that style... 
So far I can make her use the lightning bold and throw a fireball. This in despite she has no weapon. The fireball falls in short distance on the ground though. Must have made a bad coding while using the shotgun loaded with the fireball.

As good as the flamethrower in Quoth I can't get it. Get blocked with a SPAWN_CRUCIFIED error. As far I as I can see it is done with sprites.

Texturing is still to flat for bilinear filtering, although it looks goood in fitzquake. 
I've always thought Quake's style didn't lend itself to babes, that that was more of a Duke-Nukem thing, but if you are gonna have one she might as well use multiple weapons.

Quake's "Femaleness" so far, to me anyway, seems to consist of Vores and Shub Niggurath - monstrous fertility, and all that.

Quake universe seems to me to work with the whole "obsessive asexual male, any biological fact is disgusting," Lovecraft angle. But this is all subjective, I must admit. There has got to be a way you can pervert this monster enough to make it appropriate to fit into the Quake canon (of Ogres, Shamblers, Fiends, etc). But remember: they took the BEST from Texas Chainsaw Massacre, not the worst. 
This Came Out Kinda Funky

screwing around with the DKT3 textures, I attempted to derive a shape from the arch window at the top. The gray scale image is a quick dodge and burn of the basic shape. The top portion got a bit screwed so I created a symmetrical window frame instead. Several steps later and you get the results at the bottom.

I need to make the metal frame more uniform (probably superimpose a vector of the same shape over it with
some blending), but its all gravy. 
Bedy Bye Time 
now for the crate version of the same texture, 
The pyrogirl I made is for a Hellboy mod. She doesn't fit in Quake because as you say, she differs to much with the other monsters.

I was curious to know if there are other attacks possible.
Something like the trogball in zerstorer.
Or spawning a monster in and out, like in HexenII. Sad Quake's engine won't permit these actions, but I'm sure there more ways.

Only bad thing is, it needs so much coding knowledge to devellop new attack shapes. 
Attack Suggestion 
I always liked the trog's ability to teleport at will, but only when in sight of the player. Kind of like the Quoth Polyp invisibility, but quicker. Unsettling and requireing some quick reactions, maybe that would be good for her. 
More Red Mapping 
look great Fern 
And Another.. 
...because someone complained about the lack of contrast in lighting. 
...still Complainin' 
the light doesn't fall off with distance? Use a different formula? 
Nice Shots 
Fixed :P 
I think the lighting looks better in that shot^^

You might want to rotate the texture with the grey-ish brickwork on the slanted face just below the ceiling at the back of the shot by 90 degrees, it would make to bricks look like they have all been 'laid' horizontally, just a minor consideration which could be considered to add a minute level of realism...

V. nice texture theme and lighting work though!! 
Speedy's Shot 
does look better 
New Shot... 
... of my current project: the outside is finished.. while missing monsters, etc... Tecture set used is HL / Doom3 / Nature / and rocks from Lunaran via distrans ;)

So is it so bad ? 
No it is not. I think it looks great. 
I looked at speedy's photoshopped suggestion and tried a bit to make it work in the map itself. How's this for starters? 
better! are you using fitzquake? other gl engines don't support overbrighting or whatever it's called so lighting may look a little flat 
it says "Wrote Tomaz34.tga" right in the screenshot :) 
LOL :) 
I always use tq148 for screenshots and software joequake for actually playing Q1 
I Know 
metlslmsmie: go map
plant: go fitzquake, take screenie again 
I Know 
metlslmsmie: go map
plant: go fitzquake, take screenie again 
If You Insist... 
Looking better and better. 
Orl / Ijed 
Thanks for the positive comments ;)

I'm currently working inside the bunker : new shots will come...

BTW, I'm looking for a base map big boss to fight for the final: any suggestions ? Maybe Quoth2 will have something interesting..

Wait and see.. 
Quoth 2 - ETA?

Would anyone care to say, dare I even axsk? ;-) 
Hey JPL, try Granito. It's in your mailbox! 
New Quake1 Monster 
I made a new Quake1 monster. It's rather plumpy because of the odd angle it switches from back to front. It was my intention to make a monster of a elementary cube which comes alive.
But by making it wake up backwards, its walk behaviour has become rather drunk. Maybe I should make it wake up in front, so this strange habbit disappears.

test load: 
It Should Be Rock-textured And Throw Rubble 
before it should be...
it first has to be...

but thanks for the hint.

It hit me first with accurate placement and verticemeshes rubble.
I thought I furnished it with a decent attack load, still wonder how to avoid that nasty swing. 
Quake Editing Fun.. 
So I started hacking around with Objective-C on my Mac and have come up with the basics for a Quake level editor. It loads standard Quake MAP files at the moment and has a barely functional texture browser.

It's more of a viewer, in truth. But I hope to add to it...

Read about it:

See it:

nice work! any idea yet if it will be similar in GUI setup as editors that are out there already like gtkr or WC, or if it will be completly different or completly customizable?

i've been thinking of picking up a macbook pro soon and it would be cool not to have to boot into windows just to do a bit of mapping on the train. ^_^ 
A Quick Viewer 
willem: Even if you don't add everything and the kitchen sink to your editor, a simple viewer can be very useful sometimes. It can be nice to just peek around a map without having to wait 5 minutes for radiant to load, or stop everything else you're doing to boot up quake. It will be a universal binary I hope? ;)

necros: gtkradiant runs on mac os x: (ignore the wiki spam at the top of the page) 

I'm not sure yet. It'll take most of its influence from Radiant I think because that would be the easiest to code. :)


Yeah, universal binary. I really want a native editor that doesn't require X11 and other stuff. 
Another Try 
I suceeded to avoid the strange swing in the monsters walk.
It's behaving better now.

Textures of 64x64 are well suporting, I can resample them to 125%.
128 x128 I have to part. But by manipulating the size I think also the gamma changes. If I make the tex more lighter it gets bleached.

I made this screenshot in standard Quake
or did I miss the joke? 
It was not a joke :P 
already post for some guys :)

my maya map for christmas i hope... let�s see if i got time to finish it. 
Crate DM anyone? 
I succeeded to develop a new Q1 monster with more than usual combat tactics, it seem to be rather easy to kill.
Constant shooting at it stop all attacks in pain frames, so it's not such a strong monster afterall.

This inspite of the
"self.pain_finished = time +2"

which ought to give the monster time enough to reach its attack state. 
When you say that time + 2 should be enough for the monster to reach it's attack, are you taking into account the length of the pain animation as well? It might be worth making sure that sometimes granito_pain_decide returns without running any pain animation even if pain_finished < time. Although weak monsters like grunts tend to go into pain from any attack, you'll notice that the chance of the more powerful monsters going into pain is proportional to the amount of damage done, you could try adding that code to the granito. 
Nice Shots... 
Trinca. I typical don't think of Mayan as curvy (i.e. 1st shot), but I can't wait to see what you do with the theme. 
Dspdm6 Need Beta Testers 
thks generic_maps i hope to make a map you guys remenber! since my last are a litle crapy... 
My Shirt Back! 
Nice White Style 
Roman Temple?

I wouldn't use the floor texture in shots 1 and 3 though; looks pretty low-detail. 
Hu Madfox 
what happened? It looks great...

But is the guy noclip flying, or is the scale off? 
look nice Madfox, but i will not coment your maps untill you coment other�s people maps :p 
Are you really the same MadFox who used to post maps here in the past?
Looks nice so far, lighting seems to require tweaking. Don't mix base textures in. 
To Comply With Spd's Demand Myself
Some colorful screenshots, e.g. of my still-WIP vertical map. Most people will probably know the stuff already but anyway.. 
OOoooohh, very nice ! I like the antique Greece style ! Keep it up :D 
looking good.

madfox, needs better lightng but very good start. 
dunnoh, do I realy have that madmapper's hat,
or were my last maps that offcourse...
Screenshots are taken with spirits config.cfg advice,
but it makes the pix look rather fisheye, and turned my gun in a pinriffle.

Trinca, you don't have to judge it.
I'm 'still here with my part in the base-start map,
and wonder why I made it. 
for nothing my friend... for nothing... 
It needs more details and a bigger texture variety. Also, quit mapping because you are obviously no good at it. (^_^) 
Not Really 
dunnoh, do I realy have that madmapper's hat,
or were my last maps that offcourse...

The base/mine map I play tested of yours was solid in design. 
Old Mappers Hat... 
Two interesting looking projects!

Neg!ke - Nice map - very clean and stylised construction - Interestiong how you use idbase bindings on a mid-evil theme (also interesting website - never seen it before, I like the look of the 'fleshy' speedmap :P

Madfox - Also looks very nice, nice texturing, good positioning of lights. I would maybe drop the lighting down a bit, and sourced lights (like the flames in the second shot) i would concentrate the immediate light around the flame by adding a 'wait' key with a value of '2' or something like that maybe, or maybe just drop the light level a bit...

I dunno ;-P 
Madfox discovers proper texture combinations, the world will never be the same again.

Speedy that looks uncannily like you (the map pics now dude). 
I like the theme. I have some suggestions.

- All but the last shot looks cramped. Also, make sure to lay clip brushes over pointy bits or recesses in the walls. Cramped hallways plus pointy bits sticking out would equal not fun.

- Those textures are good, but very directional. Make sure to align everything. I'm mainly noticing arcus2.jpg, the column bases and curved arch bricks. Because the brick texture is heavily shadowed, it really stands out that it is not aligned to the architecture.

- Similarly, realism in texture choices. In arcus1.jpg, there are horizontal boards across the slanted ceiling that should be wood, not detailed marble. 
RickyT23 - I am just on the point of brushes. Trying to get them aligned. I thought to be smart and imported it in DMM. Now all texures are back in the grid again, but it obviously turned all my lights with a delay - 1 option.

Shambler - Thanks for your command. I tried to email you, but it seems as if your adress will ever be the same mailerror.

Grafh - This is my first map with a skybox. The outer part is very big and I'm fitting the map with small boxes I created in DMM. If I delete the boxsides it won't be so cramped anymore. Also by importing and exporting in DMM some textures get substituted. 
Little By Little... 
some! Just what do we see?
Also if that is dissp6, where are the other five?? 
Looks cool... is it really Quake ? 
Some Shots!! 
OK, er - here are some shots of my latest project. Hoping to get it out within the next couple of weeks.

Non action shots:

I have almost finished the gameplay for a first version. Map spans four areas of different ambience. Although it is fundamentally tech/base, there is a cave system and a Fury .wad area also (not as of yet shown)

Comments / advice welcome. 
Looks Good 
Nice shots indeed ! 
have to say i like this a lot more than your previous map! 
some great great screenshots! Madfox that looks really badass, very nice architecture, how far through is that?

Neg!ke I hadn't seen that map before, very smooth nunuk-style architecture, and that's always a good thing.

Distrans, very tastefully done, would like to see more yes please.

RickyT23, looks very solid, good use of subtle coloured lighting. 2nd shot is the best I think. Architecture does look a bit square in places tho. though 
Too Many Tho / Thoughs 
RickyT23 - second shot indeed the best. Would place some upperspand in the sky of the first one. Could spare some gamespeed.

Trinca - you're going great, at least suceeded to avoid the blocky look of the map.

Distrance - give me the keys to that vehicle.

Starbuck - first start:
Ta Much... 
..just the encouragement I need to finish that sucker.

As to the previous 5 neg|ke

dissp1: released under my initial net nick palldjon as pdbq_sp1: Recuurent Rumours...the first prequel to Travail.

dissp2: Grendel's Keep, 75% complete, stalled while I explored non-standard lighting, second prequel to Travail, will be completed.

dissp3: Ground Swell, 40% complete, stalled while I struggled with texture conversion, DooM2 skinned multi-arena, will never be finished.

dissp4: Tar And Feather, 50% complete, stalled while I explored horrendously complex chains of timed entities, DTCTD skinned E A Poe horror level, sequel to Usher Recompiled, will be finished for next Halloween.

dissp5: SG1, meant to be a sequel to JPL's level 'CMC', 20% complete, future unknown. May be converted to DM.

Of course there's also been two 100b entries, one coagula entry, sm57 and Rubicondom actually released along the way :)

Oh, and that other thing. 
ohhh, finish dissp3! just include the unpalletized versions as tga for fitzquake!

hehe, i love doom marb so much ^_^ 
Holy Carp 
dssp3 looks amazing. at least share it with someone you trust and then maybe we'll have another e1m3rmx type situation where it eventually gets finished :) 
and tremendous, distrance!
Look promissory. 
Eh eH eh !! Nice screenshots !! I love particularly the Doom textured part: amazing ! go map and finish it soon, I can't wait playing these maps ! 
the textures dont look so nice i think. they dont look as strong as they do in doom. too faint looking. 
looks pretty cool :) 
24 bit tgas for dissp3 please. Oh and complete the map of course. 
looks damn sexy. 
Yeah Loving Dissp2 
nice detail. Also, I agree with nitin on the tgas. 
Looks meh.

2 and 4 are where it's at. 
So much potentially great stuff in the works these days! 
Yeah... ...Potentially 
In order to help me realise the full potential of my recent creation, I could really do with some help to have a rigarous playtesting regime!

Also happy to offer my services to anyone else who requires such services.

I have tested my map on Hard difficulty (level 2), trying to make sure it's difficult but not impossible, and have scaled down from there.

Also I have geared this map towards allowing for plenty room to maneuovre throughout, and have allowed some good firepower at an early stage, level 0-1 has a larger proportion of ID monsters, with level 2 containing more Quoth monsters but slightly heavier duty weapons, slightly earlier...

Please let me know if you are interested, any help would be greatly appreciated and is entirely necessary. I understand that patiently taking the time to implement solutions or suggestions can make the end result entirely worth it.

Either request here or mail me! 
Level Error Shot 
..or how do I catch an Orb. 
that looks very colorfull :) 
please think of them. but looks good! 
It's Not Mine 
I thought you could easily see, it's Q3Arena Base in Q1 style. 
Still have no testers for latest level!!


Screenshots - #4120 
I could test, but damn I hate base maps and my criticism often is very harsh. If you want send it to me. 
I'll Send It To You Spirit 
I'd rather get all of the criticism out of the way as early as possible. I'm in no major rush to get this one out, so there's plenty time for adjustments.... ;)

Anyone else?! 
if you want sent me to ;)

If It's OK 
with only a tech evaluation, I'll see what I can come up with. 
Thanks - Ya'll Should Have Mail :) 
If anyone else fancys a go please just ask! 
RickyT23 - send it and I will see. 
Nothing yet ... did you send a link or a big attachment? 
dssp4 looks awesome. 
Let's Include A Pocketlight... 
Oh Noes! 
A fleshlight with legs!! 
no YO MAMA is a fleshlight with legs 
A Small Ship 
Why is there a lava sea though? Maybe put a standard water there with a trigger_hurt - so you don't have to map the ocean, that is.

Reminds me of the Painkiller docks level. 
Can you really get in it, or is it just solid?
Good design, a little industrial. 
Trick With The Lava 
upscale and rotate so repetition isn't as obvious. 
you could make a new lava texture that's say 256x256 (or use the original one and modify it in a way to make it look good) and then stretch that new texture by 2x.

this'll break compatibility with glquake (i think? or was it software quake/winquake?) as the texture will show up wierd but works in FQ.

i just figure since the lava takes such a prominent place, it would be worth a new texture or something. :) 
I like the lava sea, it says Quake fucked-up-ness to me. 
It was just my first impression that I asked about it, from a couple of screenshots as well. It looks a bit repetative and cartoon next to the real style architecture - to me.

But rudl, do what you like - I didn't mean to dictate or dissuade you. 
That Is . . . 
If you were hanging on my words ;P 
A Big Ship

@Madfox At the moment it's solid, but It's big enough to make rooms inside it

@ijed No you did not dictate or dissude me.

This time I scaled the lava *4 and it does not look too good. It makes the ship look that small, though its more than 2000 Units long;) 
2 More Shots 
Note That 
in reality trusses consist of triangles. If it's squares, it just forms a giant parallelogram that is not a stiff structure. 
The 'real Life' Theme Seems To Be Catching These Days 
and it looks a lot better than earlier times. :) 
big ship
big ship

Aaaah! crane, its crane! 
Speeds U So Funny U Make Me Laugh Out Loud (lol) 
Another Pic

If anyone can tell me why the nifty looking floor keeps giving me "healing point" error messages in QBSP and whether I'll be able to fullvis with them unfixed....... I'd be grateful :/ 
Healing point are just warnings, and can be fixed as described in aguirRe's document:

AFAIK, even if you are not able to solve it, it should not prevent you to fullvis your map.
As example, in SRC, I had around 10 of them (for a ladder, using clipping brushes based on 0.1 grid size), and I was able to build the map without hving any leaks, HOMs, etc...

Nevertheless, I agree it is better to have a warning-clean map... ;) 
that looks quite good. 
Looks Good Indeed 
I like unusual color combination these days. ;)

Healing point warnings do not influence VIS at all. They usually come from messy brushwork (even from seemingly okay brushwork if QBSP has a bad day). In most cases you can ignore them - sometimes they go along with portal errors (invisible faces/HOMs) however. 
I Can't Wait... 
to see the texture set you finally end up with on this one, Fern :) 
Nice combinations there, I like the red and blue theme. 
look real nice :) now go finish it! ;) i need fresh Quake maps :) hehe 
shapes there, Fern. 
It is still the outside, but the bunker front is ready. I redesign the tank (T72), and I already started the design inside the bunker, but it is far to be ready....

Enjoy !

PS: I know HL texture sucks, and that I should go map for other games, bla bla bla... :P 
That tank looks really awesome. 
Looks Good, JPL! 
Those shadows are sexy ;) 
HUUMMM sexy pics? :) 
And Joying... 
good textures fits, jpl!

I know it reminds me of the yellow Q2 lightning, and there's nothing medieval in a tank, but it reminds me of Quake, somehow. 
That Looks Cool JPL 
Like it, good stuff - does look pretty realistic!! ;-) 
Wanted Beta Testers For Dspra2 
I'm searching people for test and improve my next (second) ra map. If u want/can help with it, please, post here or speak with me on IRC (qnet) #terrafusion or msn 'deadlygm-[AT]'

And help with the title for this map. Actual title is "Arena Tribute", what u think?


Download dspra1 beta 3:

Thanks !!!! 
Anyone Else Try To Download The Above File 
and have "file not found" message? 
Because the links have been gently caressed. Relink, Mr. SP, please. 
Fixing Links !!! SOrry !!!! 
New Beta, Dspra2b4 
Orbs aren't realistic! :) 
Orl, Generic_maps, Trinca, MadFox, RickyT23, Inertia 
Those orbs are attached to things. 
on his map, orbs are placed on a "thing" too :)
i say, as long as he is doing the level for himself, he should do it the way he wants, and if someone doesn't like it, well too bad.

they don't look ugly too me, and its just a detail that even if i didn't like, it would not bother me at all while playing the level, unless they get on the way somehow. 
it's just "lights".... there no use to fight there.... 
looks good to me, I think you've pulled it off. 
Sorry I dont have a screenie (very busy, loads of work at work (christmas) etc)

I just need one more person to have a look!

300 monsters (exactly) on hard!
Coloured lighing
Doom/base style with Fury set area
Takes me 35 minutes on hard!
Grenade launcher within 1 minute!!



Much love x 
Alright, Alright, Here Are Some B@#&*y Screenies 
wo0ow seems good :b RickyT23. base map base map base map power ! :D :D 
Those Orbs Are Everywhere 
You're making good effort, Ricky! 
Madfox - Trinca 
You're maps both looks cool!
(Deadly_sp - So does you'res)

Madfox - Loads of detail 0_o A skybox would help methinks! 
madfox, find a good skybox for sure. 
New Shots Here

Check out fd4 to fd8.jpg

It's dark, but these are preliminary shots ;) 
I hate minlight. 
Looking good. What texture pack is that? 
Texes Pack Used Are 
.. Half Life, Doom3, and Fury (for concrete essentially) 
I see the kind of style you are going for but I really think it could use some more colour and less minlight. Get some more static light fixtures mapped into the halls and rooms, the whole thing will look 10 times better with some contrast provided by sourced lights imo.

Also, if you really want to up the "german ww2 bunker" style you have going on I would suggest adding some red into the mix somewhere :) 
I Think It Looks Good... 
...but the small lights in the darker areas (i.e. the spotlights in the entrance to the bunker and ones on the cieling of darker corridors) - hmmm... I think it can be a pain in the arse to get right!

I mean if fullbright textures are supported in the engine being used (like fitzquake) you can have a fullbright texture on the light, with a spotlight entity underneath it, and then below that have something like:

"classname" "light"
"light" "65"
"wait" "0.3"

underneath it, about halfway between the cieling and the floor.


But if fullbright textures arent supported then you have to makesure that the texture used on the light itself is fully lit, with another light entity close to the light itself, maybe with "wait" "4" and quite a high light value...

My (rather badly explained) point is that I dont think it looks good when you have light cast around the edges of the light brush on the cieling, cause in real life it wouldnt be there! 
These shots are preliminary shots, and I still didn't really focused on ligths... I know it has to be reworked.. don't worry ;)

Thanks for the comments. 
A harsh industrial warning stripe trim could help indoors - either red or yellow could help.

Are you going to be putting prefabs / hl textures inside as well? 
JPL : For A Reference 
Ijed / Speeds 
ijed: yes indeed, I will add it later ;)

Speeds: Nice reference shots! Thanks 
Has Fd6 Got Two Panes Of Glass In It ? (!) 
Good reference shots indeed, I think looking at JPL's style and textures, those shots contain just the right ideas to ramp up the designs and details. 
RickyT23, And All... 
Yes, it is 2 pane of glasses.

Also, as I said, these are preliminary shots, and lot of modifications are planned (trims with yellow/black stripes, box of ammos, doors, etc..). This part of the bunker is the first defense line (i.e you can see the outside from this place), so as usually in such bunker: it is very "flat".
A second (and a third) part will come with more details, for sure... and thanks for the shots speeds: they gave me plenty of ideas ;)

Thanks a lot for all the comments :D 
Is That Mod Still Going 
nightwatch that is, I thought they said it wouldnt be finished anymore? 
Wasn't It 
NightFall that got cancelled? 
Quake/Doomish Map 
Doom E1m4/Quake/E1m1


.map file included.

Thanks!! Teaching Old Progs.dat New Tricks. thread. 
Sorry About Angelfire 
Need a place to host your screenshots? Upload them here: (password is ilovetheshubhub)
I suggest adding more complex geometry to the map. Given your texture choices, you could choose to develop a new style in this level, one that feels like doom, but utilizes the possibilities of quake. 3D! 
Sorry But... 
That map looks awesome in Doom, but it's absolute bollocks in Q1. Like inertia said, you need to make it more complex. You can't just use the exact same lines as the original and expect it to look good. 
I Liked It 
JUST like doom, but with Q1 monsters!
Nowt wrong with that if thats what you wanted to do, you did it quite well!

Progs barrels are cool - shame they dont have a 'dominoes' effect when shot. 
New Shot 
DM Map 
This map took me a little while to create. I'm not all that good at map making, yet, so not near as good as many of you. But I put time into this map. Its a basic DM map I want your honest opinions, any input is good input.


Map Download: 
JPL - Looks cooler than before, nice details, like the Half-Life textures, conveyorbelt and ventilations shaft details make the place look a l00t more realistic. Still light around the lights though, but I'm sure you said you were aware of that!! Maybe a lower alpha keyvalue would make the glass look a bit better (?) - I'm looking forwards to this map!

Dreadfull - No email address in your ID? Your deathmatch map looks interesting, like the Metal style! A few more detailed textures on the wall wouldnt hurt, or some fixtures maybe with flames on the top or something would spice it up a bit - also the floor texture looks a bit too much like the wall texture, maybe something that contrasts a bit more? The layout looks interesting, and some of the rooms (Quad room, outside area with lava 'fountain') make for good gameplay! :)

^^ Looks like a gigantic undetailed box room. It's nice that you put a lot of time into it but you need look at some existing custom MP maps and put the same amount of detail into your level.

Look at aerowalk for example...not terribly "detailed" but a great layout that looks interesting. You can't just put up 4 walls a floor and a sky and call it a DM map. 
i agree with the others that your map seems to need more detailed architecture/geometry.

However, this one screenshot looks cool: 
Level Preview 
Here's something I've been working on as a test for my level editor. Not sure if this will become something I can feel good about releasing but it's been fun to work on nonetheless! 
HEY! I just found out about this on the inside3d forums today. You must release it! As a mac user I am limited to what I can use to create quake1 levels with. And by limited I mean Quiver 1.2 It sucks and is currently part of my problem with development. At least let me get a version of it ;) It looks very well developed and seems to be able to do a lot more than most editors, especially quiver. If you do release it (please) Do you know an estimate on a release date? 
The level looks very nice. well done. Did you ever do any editing before you started work on this app? If so what did you use? 
Heck Yes 
Lookin' good Willem. Shots are kind of narrow in scope but I like the architectural elements so far! I say keep working on it so it's more than a test level. :) 

Hey, does Quiver run natively or do I need to install X11 and all that junk?

Which compiling tools (bsp/light/vis) are you using with Quiver?

I am definitely going to release it once I work a few more things out. The list of stuff that needs doing never seems to end. PLEASE keep an eye on my blog because eventually I'm going to want to beta test it with some Mac users.

And yeah, I did levels back in the day under the handle "Taskmaster". I also ran the original Multiplayer Quake web site. Those were the days... 
Oh Snap 
Well No Quiver just runs under OS classic, and all you need is quickdraw 3d (Free. If you dont already have it which i think you should, I believe it is on apple's website) and quake.. It is here:
And it is equipped with its own compiler built in but it is crap, so I use the tools off of here:
I would love to get a hold of your app once you let it out for beta. Do you have an estimate on the release date? ^_^ 
Hey guys, is mediafire not letting you download the bsp? 
Ahh yeah, I've got the Giles tools as well. I compiled my own tools, actually, but they work as well as the Giles ones do.

As for an esimate ... for a beta release, I really only have to get the hard coded stuff out of the editor and add support for mods like Quoth. Once those are done, it should be testable. Send me an email and I'll be sure to notify you once I need beta testers.

I imagine it'll be ready for beta before the new year. 
Heh, err ... yeah, I meant by sometime in January - not before the new year. I don't think I'll be ready in, like, 4 days. :) 
Here's something I've been working on as a test for my level editor. Not sure if this will become something I can feel good about releasing but it's been fun to work on nonetheless!


The list of stuff that needs doing never seems to end. PLEASE keep an eye on my blog because eventually I'm going to want to beta test it with some Mac users.

I like your style: no sub-par release just for the sake of release. I'm looking forward to it. 
Does It Work 
on leopard?

btw: can i request the feature to select all faces that are coplanar to a currently selected face?

it's the one thing i really missed when i moved from quark to gtkr. annoyingly, even 3ds max doesn't have that... �_� 
I'll Finish It This Time :) 

that first one is just all right with me.

I like the texturing on and around the side door.

chandeliers are a nice touch in the third pic. Keep it up.

While I'm at it, some love to the dude behind the shub-hub. 

Yep, works in Leopard. It's a universal binary written in Cocoa.

I'll add your selection request to The List, but I won't promise it yet since I'm not sure how to implement it at this point. :)


Looks good but you might want to do something more interesting with the ceilings. You don't have to go crazy but you'd be surprised how far a few holes or beams can go. 
Remix Of The Damned 
Oh, Yeaahh! 
Kell is kooler than the second koming of kool-aid man! 
sexy kell 
strong looking. 
Damned The Remix Of 
the orange structure on the #2 screenshot looks weird to me, but the rest is fucking awesome! :) 
Interesting To See 
what they will look like with lighting. 
Hell Yeah 
I was going to do a e1m2rmx to go with fr3n1m3, but yours looks better, :) 
2 New Shots 
Looks Cool! 

...Looks Cool!! - Put me on the list for tester candidates >8D 
first shot: interesting looking crane puzzle. The buttons are to be pushed to move the boxes, yes? I like object puzzles. But please make the floor and ceiling more interesting, they are very flat.

second shot: ah, now we are looking out into a misty cavern. Very enticing, and somewhat spooky. Not much to comment on, except that it looks like an interesting place to explore. 
Grahf / RickyT23 / Jointss 
Thanks !

Put me on the list for tester candidates
Well, I already have many people that asked me to beta test, so I will have to make some choice.. so please don't blame me if you are not "elected" for betatesting ;)

@Grahf: The buttons are to be pushed to move the boxes, yes?
Not all of them, you will have to discover what's working, and what's not ;)

But please make the floor and ceiling more interesting, they are very flat
Well, it is not visible, but the is a nice curve on the ceiling ;)

Thanks for the comments :D 
getting better, go on
try a trim or a texture with some trim or paint on the walls 
Just An Idea 
Seeing as you're converting the textures anyway, but maybe a couple of the classic blood /slime splatter decals baked into a base texture could add more interest. 
Yes, nice idea: I'll try to see what is available.. maybe I will have to do it myself.
Thanks for the idea ;) 
Very Cool Looking Q4 Level 
Those shots look great. I like the moss normal, the low rez compared to the diffuse works well.

JPL - most likely you'll have to DIY it, but the decals will be easy to cut in PS or PSP. 
Well, I hope I will not ruined the texture with too much bloody splashes :P 
Doing the same in some maps I'm working on currently, just a few here and there amidst the large expanses of metal / base flooring. It's probably easier just to paint the blood yourself rather than cut up some lo-rez decal.

I experimented with sludgy mounds of toxic waste as well (trigger_hurt attached) but it didn't work too well since its a new-ish trap mechanic and there was no pit - it was just mush heaped in a corner. 
Well, I would like to ad it directly onot bmp extracted from the texture, bot copying/pasting them from something else.... I have to experiment... 
Heres A Link...

This is a good (free - 'V6' ;D) program for what you want - it has a 'smart select' tool, like Photoshop - a 'magic wand'. Im using it at the mo for a company website!! Might be stating the obvious here, but select the area around the 'splat', click (on the 'select' button) 'invert', then you can copy and paste the splat without a rectangular box around it!!

(sorry if this sounds patronising) :-P 
Nice Architecture Drawings 
Wrong Thread - Sorry 
to my fan club!

just to let you guys know i didn�t quit mapping! still progressing on trincasp4 
Nice nice nice!!

Haven't seem a good temple style for aaaages - been missing it! 
I Still Haven't Seen It 
thats looking good Trinca! Maybe have it a little darker on the inside to get some contrast but looks really nice so far! 
Finally Something Non-base 
Looks nice Trinca. 
thks guys :)
yes Daz need less light on top 
Trinca... Fan Club? 
Now I've heard everything. 
Trinca For Prexy... 
That outdoor area looks especially nice! 
Call me Mr. President! 
ToeTag Sample Level 
This is the sample level I'm going to include with ToeTag from the next version onwards. It's nothing fancy - just a small level that lets you choose your skill level and then launches you into E1M1. However, it shows off most of the fundamentals of what makes a map tick so it's a good example.

MAP and BSP:


Looks Very Nice Willem 
excellent detailing. 
Looks nice indeed ! 
Ooh, Yes. 
Love the archy stuff, and excellent base usage overall. 
Looks Cool 
going to have a run around it now. Looking forward to any proper maps you might make with your new editor ;) 
congrats with your new Mac Editor! 
Thanks all!

Yeah, definitely looking forward to doing some larger, real maps. 
Your levels are a similar style - 'v.nice IDBase'

You should make a Pak!!!

Trinca - Your map looks cool!! Hurry up and finish it!! Also, I started making a new map, "IKDoom" !!! Bah :-P 
Willem looks fucking hot!!! :) 
I am very disappointed by the proper texture alignment on those crates. 
Looks Really Good 
I love the small super detailed maps, there should be more of that I think!

Also Trinca, looks nice, you've got some temple skills for sure. 
I see my crate alignment skills (or lack thereof) have preceded me. :P 
Fanca Trinclub 
looks pretty good but your floors in the two shots are completely flat, that's what I'd concentrate on changing perhaps? (Or maybe you have done that in the other areas already?) Kind of a macro level thing, a different question altogether from detail and decorations. 
Another Shot 
Second part of the map started some weeks ago (after SK), it remains 50% of the map to finish... and it is already huge...

Feel free to comment... ;) 
Nice Footlights! 
I wish I could make that effort in short time! 
JPL - that looks, reminds me of 'office complex' from Half-Life 1 (it's the floor tiles)

I'll put a screenie up next week... 
As Promised... are some shots of my new project

Its sort of gothic base/Q3ish, although is just contains textures from Doom3 and Daikatana (maybe one or two IKBase)

So far un-named...

All comments welcome!!! 
that looks great. Not too sure about the D3 tex though, I dont think they convert that well.

I like the rockwork! 
Copycat !! 
These shots looks good, but what are you copying my latest project shots (same base theme, same rock tex, same skybox... grrrr..) ??
No seriously, it looks really interesting, and the Doom3/DKT base theme is really well implemented: I can't wait to play this map !
Keep it up !! 
imo hex tiles in the roof don't work tho.
and be careful with the openness, have good vis blocking. 
Very original texture scheme, but as Nitin said, some of the textures do not transition well, especially the grey metal one in the 2nd screen shot before the stairs.

I really like the build style though and the lighting is good, looking forward to the final product :) 
Rockwork - used 64 unit deep triangular prisms throughout! It seems a good technique, so far all of that has only one Txqbsp warning!

nitin/DaZ - D3 textures - some of those texes definately converted better than others! Its a shame really, cause they could have been cool!! I might try touching up some of the ones i'm using myself. Or find some better ones...

JPL - 00ps! Sorry if your first impression was that I was copying you (I hadnt even realised about the skybox). I think the overall theme is different, yours seems much more 'present day' whereas mine is kinda meant to have a sort of sci-fi/aliens sort of feel to it! I dont think the rock texture is the same, mine comes from DktE1.wad. I had to fuck around with it something rotten so get fullbright speckles out... I actually was attracted to the Daikatana textures after having a blurt around your Event Horizon map (I've never played DKT)

Vis blocking - The area shown is meant to be a sort of 'hub', the idea being that a network of underground passages interconnects around it, with different chambers and stuff. Maybe some caves. The area shown (1st shot) is likely to be as bad as the vis gets!!

(admittedly its pretty open, but nothing on the Sickbase, or maybe even parts of The Hand...) 
Looks Nice 
Only thing I'd say is have some more outdoor shadows and better spotlighting indoors, otherwise looks good to me. 
No offense taken, don't worry: and no go map, and release it quickly ! I want to play this map soon :D 
looks cool Ricky :) 
The Texture Mix... pretty slap dash. I doubt you could get DKT or D3tech to mesh well with gothic Q3. Why not try the evil lair tech sets instead. Having said that, will we see a D3 Temple section hidden below the base...please :) Your implementation of the Fury underground in The Hand was excellent! 
Small, Pointless Base-style Deathmatch Map

Someone please comment on the item placement.
I'm not going to add RL or LG. 
Lush looks for a simple base map, superbly made.

I think without the RL or LG, you should up the numbers of GL or SNG, otherwise it will be a bit of a scrappy fight with lesser weapons, I expect. Or chuck a quad in....or ROS.... 
I Can't Play 
Quake at the moment. :( Can somebody post some screenshots so that I can pretend? 
My Only Complaint 
would be to remove those square heat vent things. They ruin the scene.

Else looks good. 
where is lg and rl? :) 
Great Level! 
I like the doorshapes and the round teleporter.
Sorry I'm no dm player, but looks fun to play. 
is fucking awesome. this is why i usually stop making, because levels like this make me jealous to and i never finish anything that i start :) 
Typos As Always.... 
making supposed to be mapping. 
i now what you mean nakasuhito got 9.000 brushes made that i will probably quit :\ 
Stop Being So Emo Please And Go Map 
Some really cool brushwork in there! I love the crates being stored under the floor. It's simple brushes but it has a great visual impact.

And that is, hands down, the most elaborate teleporter i've ever seen! 
Negdm1b + Reaperbot(81) = L00ds Of FUN!!! 
Heres a demo of me playing four reaperbots on Neg|ke's "Small, Pointless Base-style Deathmatch Map". I downloaded the map just for a peek. It reminds me of that bloody Aerowalk map everyone's always going on about (only better IMHO), so I just couldnt resist the thought of wiling away a half hour or so....

Also reminded me of Q3A!!! 
Almost Forgot 
Thanks Neg|ke!!! 
FYI => Demo Doesnt Require Any Mods 
Kinda big arsch_beads (only noticed because I used a software engine and decoration flickered out of sight).
The things on the ceiling walls look a bit out of place in my opinion. Except for that, super sexy as usual. Can't wait to play it some day. 
I noticed that flickering as well. What causes that, tons of func_walls? 
But If 
it's pointless I'll also stop mapping. 
Neg!ke: Noticed really high r_speeds as well, I assume this wasn't vised. Nice map, very slick, personally I'd like some more kinks to set it apart from other dual-atrium maps. It seems very modern. 
But what do you think about amount/placement of health and ammo?
Gameplay is supposed to be similar to DM1 (as the title implies) - a.k.a. scrappy and boring, yeah. :D I think having only one GL/SNG is ok here, considering the size of the map. Quad would be too much, ROS could work though.
The map is intended for 1on1 matches, possibly three players maximum - any more are too many, especially when playing without weaponstay, like in the demo.
Damn those flickering funcs, i will have to cut back on them, making the lights textures maybe. They are all func'd to bring r_speeds down. Then again, r_speeds are high anyway (up to 1200) - the map is vised of course, but it's too open/detailed - so those few extra polies won't hurt that much, I guess.. 
ROS? Do you mean Ring? I don't like it when acronyms are used when real words are just as short. I bet someone says QD when they mean quad.

Otherwise, I can't find anything to complain about in this thread right now as I don't have quake here, will complain later when I load it up.
(People avoid dm1 because it's not fun, or so I've heard, I haven't actually even tested it much myself, even the layout of dm1 is very amateur style IMO... But this doesn't yet disqualify this Small, Pointless Base-style Deathmatch Map or SPBSDM.) 
I suceeded in creating a skybox, and use the same mountains to create an mdl file of them.
They're much smaller in bytes than when I would have made them out of quake brushes.
Each mountain became a 125kb mdl.

So the pictured mountains on the skybox become physical in the map editor. Only they have a kind of slitch, as they are not real.
And texturing is hard, because they get really out scaled.

I used Wazat's Voident. 
The Best Weapon In This Map 
seems to be the SSG. But maybe it's my bad aim or tactics with the others. Tested a little with Gibbie.
I still didn't get any tactics since I couldn't yet get a grasp on what is where. 
That's pretty cool. Skyboxes are usually out of scale to the map anyway, so maybe just a plain night sky without the mountains would be better.

Is the idea to box the map inside clip brushes to stop the player exploring the (small) mountains of madness? 
i wanna watch the demo but whats a dz file? how do i open such things? whats so bad about zip files?

.dz files are to be opened with DZip.

DZip is a Quake community created program specifically for zipping demos, because it zips 'em up way tighter than any other compression prog.

Don't try to download dzip from the official page though, cause that version is corrupt.
Download it from Signs Of Koth, and rejoice:
in here got all the explinacion!!! 
Kell: Not quite. 7zip does it even better.

bambuz: I know. I used ROS because Shambler brought it up. At least it's better than using "666" for the the pentagram. I assume you don't like the use of "tp" for teleporter, either? :P
Thanks for testing the map; next time record a demo please. 
People, People... 
Nakashuhito - find your dzip.exe, stick it in the same dir as your .dz file, then run it from a command prompt like so: "dzip -x filename"

neg|ke - 7zip is a powerfull tool, but it will generate archives which you can only use with 7zip. When I was compiling the .zip for Thehand, at one point I had a .zip file which I could only open with 7zip! Top be fair it was a smaller file than the one which got released! When you pick the method used for compression, some are compatible with other zip programs/windows/whatever but some are 'too extreme'.
Thats not to say that Dzip is any better, you can ONLY open dzip files with dzip :P

Madfox - What you have created there looks pretty striking! I wouldnt know where to start making mountains like that! How long did it take you?

Bambuz - ROS, ROS - ROSROSROS!!! stands for (drumroll) "Ring of Shadows"! This saves you TWELVE keypresses! I mean "ring" could be referring to any ring in the level. Perhaps a hoop of some description. Maybe a corridor! Maybe the but-hole of Shub-Niggurath his very self! Haha!! I still think your funny tho ;-D 
Several engines support unpacking dzip "on-the-fly", at least Joequake, Qrack and aguirRe's nehquake (glquake maybe too).

7zip is a great compression I love and support. It is open source thus many un-/packers (could) support it. Quake maps and mods should always use zip (as default) though in my opinion just because it has been standard for more than a decade now. And don't confuse the file extension .zip or even the term "zipping" with the ZIP algorihm itself. :P

Madfox: Those are the best looking mountains I have yet seen in Quake, wow. I wonder how it is performance-wise. 
can also be opened with WinRar. Of course, if you're still using that shitty WinZip, you'll have a problem. Yes, 7zip's zip compression is better than regular zip compression too. I've never had problems opening those with other programs. 
7-zip is the leading allround compressor in terms of compression ratio, but dzip is almost always much better than 7-zip on normal q1 demos, i.e. demos made in std protocol 15, which is also the only protocol dzip understands.

If dzip can't parse the demo (e.g. any of my custom protocols, DP's or Tomaz'), it'll just default to std zip (or crash), no better and no worse. In such a case, 7-zip will easily beat dzip as it always beats std zip with a large margin.

So for std q1 demos use dzip, nothing's better than that. For custom demos use 7-zip, almost nothing beats that.

The only case where rar is usually better is on multimedia, e.g. lots of wavs.

In my upcoming versions of GL/WinQuake, I've added built-in handling of dzips, same as in present NehQuake. 
Interesting Idea Madfox 
So the mountains are models! And you did them in a modeling program.
The brushwork looks cool too... but quake wasn't really designed for that kind of work. So I think you're limited to a small map that way. 
Ooh - Upcoming AguirRe Quake!! 
:D :D :D :-D 
Oooooooooooooooh.... nice polys :P 
Build a map around that :-) 
Skyboxes II 
Ijed and Spirit, just download and tell me again.

Ricky,I have a terrain editor, that shifts landscapes like this. Exporting them to dxf give an huge amount of date. Fortunately I can import them into AM2000, an animating studio, and choose to export them again with smaller, quake friendly data.

Still the amount is 2010 vertices, quake's maximum. I wonder, if by doing this I archive more dataspace, then when I would use real brushes in Quake? 
Thanks Kell 
got dzip and saw the demo. haha, cool shit! :D
now to find the reaper bots and play like hell. 
I seem to remember that aguirRe's engine has raised limits for verts.

The mountains are excellent - a way to have Quake rocks that isn't like pulling teeth. Shame there's no good way to fake the collision (apart from a big clip brush) but that'd defeat the purpose of a decorative feature anyway.

The upcoming Quoth2 release features spawnable models, as does Nehahra, which should make doing stuff like this allot easier. Hello Q1 mapobjects! 
ToeTag 0.9 Preview 
Just a note that ToeTag is nearing it's 0.9 release. I blogged a few of the new features including:

Entity filtering:

Vastly improved CSG Merge functionality:

Coming, hopefully, sometime over the weekend! 
I haven't even read all your updates and features posted about ToeTag yet, and I thought your demo start map was tragically built to the wrong scale, but still...your editor looks so good you actually make me wish I had a Mac to try it out on.
I am a PC user, and I am envious.

Really good job on this, mate. 
Thanks Kell!

Was that map to the wrong scale? It felt OK running around in it. Too small you mean? 
Yeah, very cramped - I'd have made the areas about twice the size. Twice the width anyway. Look at the id start map for example. The skill corridors are small rooms in themselves, even though their only function is for the player to travel down them once into a teleporter. Yet they don't' feel cavernous, just comfortable.

It's not a big problem though. The map has no gameplay other than skill selection, it looks great, and works fine as a demo for the editor. 
Heh, I've always felt the id start map was way over scaled - at least in that starting area. The episode selection part seems OK but I never liked those skill hallways.

I do agree, for the most part, and if the map had any gameplay in it at all I would have made the combat areas much larger! 
1. I can relate - my idea of what the right size is for a Quake map changed quite a lot over the last two years. I used to think cramped = good but I'm not so sure anymore. I now think 256 is the perfect width for a corridor ^^ in id maps, they're not even half as wide. I still think you have to factor in the size of the monsters, and the reach of their attack, though. As well as the size of the player model with regard to stairs etc. If fighting area and distance get too large, dodging gets easier, which is another natural limit. The final natural limit is sound; it's rather unfair to not even hear a rocketeer's rocket coming before it hits you. You're simply missing the sound cue.

2. Since I started mapping from the ground up instead of hacking id maps, I noticed things feel smaller in the game than they look in the editor. This was a surprise. You can have a 1024x1024 room no problem. I didn't believe my eyes how normal it looked.

3. The start map corridors, well I think it's just not the smartest design. It's not necessarily the size that bothers me. The concept itself seems a bit simple. And they didn't apply the scale to the whole map, just attached that big front-end to a rather minute map. Like some guys attach big exhaust pipes to cheap cars. 
Cheers For Willem! 
Who made excessus resurface (and boy has his english improved)! 
I Second That 
I wanted to say hello (to Excessus) but I couldn't post on the page for some reason... it just kept timing out or something.

Tell him to come here, he might not even know of this site? :) 
I'll prod him. :) 
Mr Fribbles! :) Well, I have been always around more or less, I read Shambler's blog from time to time, dive into Pauk's map repository and play some Quake games on one platform or another, even if its once per year ;) Willem software has insuflated new energies into this old hearth of me. :)

... and no, I dont think my broken english is at all better! :D 
Shambler Has A Blog? 
I had a map idea involving a floating castle against a nebula filled backdrop, with some shub-nigguraths (Perhaps there were more than the one you killed :). I made this skybox a while ago from a hubble space telescope image, and I think it looks really good against shub and some quoth textures.


Skybox download: (feel free to use/modify) 
Good to see the Quake spirit is still alive in you. With any luck you can get ToeTag working for you and give us some more maps! 
Are you sure you are mapping for the right game? That screams HALFLIFE so loud.

That ceiling texture is kinda ugly, looks so very comic-like. 
that looks awesome; very xen-like. i think a xen themed space floater would work well in the context of quake.. *ponders* 
That looks great - but yeah, half life. Even so It'd be nice to see more of the same. It's a shame Q1 doesn't support skybox rotation like Q2. 
I like the look of it! The texture you have used for the frames of the beds looks very high quality, but I do think the ceiling could be better. TBH I like it! :D 
Excessus Is Cool. 
Shambler doesn't have a blog tho, not that I know about anyway! 
Blog. About. It. 
...thanx cobber, I'm immediately inspired. 
Ok, It Has To Be Said 
'blog' is just about the most horrible word (or non-word, as the case may be) in existence. Second only to 'brunch'. 
web log = blog. It's a contraction. It's fine.

As for it being a non-word:

English changes and evolves over time. Catch up, gramps. :) 
Ive got a blog.....

Please feel free to comment. ;-P 
What People Mix Up 
is a blog and a blogpost.

They say "I wrote a blog about it". That means he/she posted weekly, perhaps even daily for years about the subject.

More likely they mean that "I wrote a post on it" or "I wrote a blogpost about it".

More complaints later. 
Hang On Let Me Go Write A Blog About These Findings 
Thanks Willem... 
I get it, I just hate it. Not the definition of the word, the word itself. It's like brunch. I mean fuck off, you know?

No personal offense intended to anyone who maintains, err, a column or diary of their thoughts or ramblings on the web, of course.

Now leave me alone to wallow in my irrational anger! 
There are a variety of those too and maybe the terms will be differentiated better in the future. Some are almost like publishing scientific articles with quite elaborate content that is released only intermittently. And some are just talking almost hourly on how the "author" feels and what he/she is doing.

Hell, even conventional paper publishing differentiates the totally different terms, "magazines" and "newspapers".. And there are "books" and "short stories" etc.

But the word. Do you think you have some only right to that combinatory style, mister Friday Nibbles?

(This is in the wrong thread, I cease talking about it now.) 
Uh Huh. 
Fribblog would rock.

Shamblog No Less 
Speaking Of Which 
I had a dream a few nights ago where Shambler had a blog. About anime. 
you should start a blog just so you can call it "Friblog."

reminds me, I should add a "strikethrough" tag to func. 
This is a winning strategy. I fully support and endorse this suggestion. 
"Blagen" is (Northern) German slang for small children :-) If you want to talk negatively about someone, you say "ugh, they brought their blagen" usually followed by "bleh, those people multiply like rabbits" especially when relating to Ausl�nder. It's not the most kids-friendly society I guess. :-/

I like kids though. 
Oh Please 
shut up and stay on topic
post more pics of maps 
What is that? Looks smart, but its not exactly Quake is it? :D 
Man those are dark. Looks cool from what I can see but I can't see much. :-/ 
goldenboy crapy? i dont even considere this pics...

go make some proper ones!!! 
There are some very dark areas, yeah. The rest may be my laptop screen, I'll post some with gamma way up then. 
when I put gamma way up, it looks all blocky as is normal in software. It looks brighter in GLquake, but I can't run that at enough fps to normally move around the map. And I don't have GIMP installed right now. Plus, the map IS very dark, the last two shots represent that rather well. There are indeed areas where you can barely see the half dozen fiends that rape you :-) not all at the same time though. That is intentional. It is intentionally "unfair" towards the player. In some areas at least.

Trinca, do you find it too dark when you actually play the map? You do have the option to retreat towards the light, it's your own choice if you fight in the dark... you don't have to. There are light sources nearby, and the corridors are well-lit.

I'd prefer to work on the map now instead of screwing around with brightness on pictures :-)

Nice architecture, nice lightning effects, while a little bit dark, but seems OK. Instead of playing with gamma, you should try to increase brightness by 40% and contrast by 30%, it would look better ;)

Keep it up ! 
Heh, thanks. Those do seem a bit dark by daylight, it was night when I posted them and I have an old LCD...

I'm installing Gimp then. 
Goldenboy - Honestly, I like dark maps too, I like the idea of it being like a Sci-Fi horror world. Good Metal style, Im sure the map will feel very ID-Quakey.
I thought #4383 was a funny post, cause it seems you were frustrated that people didnt "get" your shots.

I got whinged at for posting dark screenies of the hand, so I did adjustments on the last preview-shots of my current map. I dont know what people thought of it really, but I remember Ijed telling me to 'sort out the shadows around the rocks".

You cant win, can you? :D 
Have You Seen 
the shots for my first map? Dark shots r4wk. 
You Could Try 
just entering
gamma .4
in the console before taking shots. Dunno if it would work for you 
I think I wasn't quite ready for playtesters (top players) finding this both too hard (to the point of LOL) and too dark and being blunt about it, too.

The map will be better for it, though. I'm rather thankful I get the flak now instead of later.

As for my last post, no, I pretty much meant what I said. I can't be arsed to spend hours doodling around polishing up screenshots. I prefer giving the map to people. I'll just beg them for some screenies when it's released.

I'm not whining or anything, I'd really rather just get my hands dirty than mess with pictures. Seeya. 
As a note, I'll just say that gamma correcting screen shots will take less time than uploading them to a server. :) 
I have an alias in my .bashrc called "screenshotquake" which takes ~/.tyrquake/id1/quake00.tga, adjusts gamma and saves as JPEG to my quaddicted-work folder using imagemagick's convert. Very handy as it only takes a second. 
which engine are you talking about? Most engines do not apply gamma correction to their screenshots. 
Oh, Come On 
If you can't be arsed making your screenshots viewable, why bother posting them at all? After all, your doing it for people to view and comment on them which is quite hard if they are too dark. People shouldn't be expected to do this part of your work themselves. Increasing brightness and contrast by some standard values (the same for each shot) doesn't take hours but only a couple of seconds, and since you have to open them in an editor to save them as JPG, doing this little extra step can't be regarded as much of a hassle. 
It should be quite clear by now that dark screenshots don't automatically mean the map is (too)dark too. Lighting always looks better ingame. 
Whey-hey For Shooting Yourself In The Foot, GB!! 
In a way I like your attitude, but in a another, I think many wont.

If you fix up your shots by increasing brightness and contrast then people wont look at them and think "huh, that level looks too dark to play, so im not gonna bother with it".

Unless you make your levels for yourself and only yourself in which-case why bother posting on func at all? See ya! 
Ricky: what? ??? I say "seeya" and you flip?

Willem, neg!ke: this is a misunderstanding, I don't have an image editor installed and got a weird bug when trying to, which atm IS more hassle than I'm willing to bear since I'd rather use my limited time for mapping, please understand that I meant that literally, not in an arrogant way that some ppl were quick to assume. I used nview to convert them to jpg, and it took half an hour plus googling and two tries to figure that out because it's badly documented. I tried adjusting brightness with that, which produced a weird grid like effect and that was when I said "OK I'll stop this for now."

Gosh. You live, you learn. 
I Can Relate 
If you take a look at efdat's screenshot in our ZerTM topic, it looks pretty blurry and blendy. It's my fault, but I assure you when I put his pic through the motions in Gimp, doubled the size, added contrast, light, rebalanced the colors and passed it through an Unsharp filter, the results were pretty damn good.

However, in browser, not as much so. I think Gimp resampled the original with the treated version when I saved it to a compressed format. 
Just Took A Look 
out of curiosity, now I'm certain it blended the two because I had the original untreated except for doubling of the size in an alpha channel.

A mistake on my part, my apologies, efdat. 
gb: OK, i see. Apparently, you picked one of the most awkward tools available then...

HeadThump: Uh, it's not a science. And you're not supposed to create a Picasso either. Doubling the size?! Rebalancing the colors, unsharpening? WTF? 
Can't Help It, 
it's (literally) in the blood. 
sent a screenshot that was a wee on the small side. I processed it (really, those are only a few steps) to give a better idea of his map, only to fuck that up by shuffling the original into a separate channel. 
Wtfdat Then! 
Of My Many Sins 
in life, screwing up the screenshot is not one I'm going sweat much about. Hindsight is something cattle do while chewing grass. 
Big Industrial Complex 
Nice shots!, but I suspect fullvis runtime will turn has "forever" due to the huge wide open area... I faced this issue on CDA. did you already tested fullvis ?

OTOH, the global architecture is very good: I can feel the ambience already !

Oh, just a "bad thing": the water texture is not that good: the square limits of the texture are is visible... just change it to something else like *water1, and it wil be OK

Keep it up ! 
look like a real huge area... looks nice hope it will not take forever to fullvis!!! 
Reminds Me Of Sickbase 
6 and a half days. How long did you say CDA took, JPL? 6 weeks or something?!??!

Rudl - I hope you like the sound of cooling fans trying to escape the pull of gravity. And I would recommend aguirres vis util, cause it has an autosave feature.

GB - I didnt flip. The pen is mighier than the sword. You give a pretty good explanation for you dark shots when put under pressure to, why didnt you say all of that in the first place?
I do like the look of your map tho, a nice dark metal map. I hope the gameplay is scary too :D 
first two shots look nice, but there's no lighting down at the 'docks' type area. same with the second shot, plenty of lighting to show off the top areas but the floor is completely black.

i'm not a fan of the 3rd shot though. those textures don't look good as main architectural textures. maybe use idbase? 
CDA Fullvis Runtime 
How long did you say CDA took, JPL? 6 weeks or something?!??!

It ran exactely during 1218 hours = 50 days and 18 hours... You have to learn how to be patient... 
CDA Fullvis 
Just curious JPL, what was the processor? 
1218 hours?! 
50 days to do what? VIS? If it's VIS, that's absolutely insane. 
Even 6 1/2 days is crazy. WTF are you guys doing? Might be time to optimize a little. :) 
Good designs / look. Textures well busy, not sure how that would feel through a whole map.

Now, the other 40%... 
There's Nothing 
"crazy" about having fullvis processing for days or weeks in a big map, many high quality Q1 maps in the recent years have required that, e.g. Kinn's Marcher took about one week I think.

With an open layout, fullvis time goes up in a highly non-linear manner. It's certainly not an optimal algorithm, but no-one has come up with anything better so far. 
Lost A Post There 
My longest compile time in warp was ~5 hours, including bsp and light - there's always a way to cut back on vistime, through using func_walls or illusionaries, all the old tricks like ubends, doughnut corridors or just basic corners. Warpd which had a massive open area that connected to four others was the quickest compile, at around four hours.

Granted there wasn't much detail in the map but even so, I could have filled it with func's with a negligable compile time hit.

Rudl, I'd suggest using sunlight, but at a very low value. Maybe 20 for direct and 15 for ambient. If you think of it as moonlight or light pollution then it'll probably be a more attractive proposition. It should help you light the map whilst maintaining it's blackness. 
A few hours I can see, or even over night in a pinch but any longer than that and I have to think you've done something unfriendly to Quake. That's all. :) 
Goldenboy, Get Xnview 
if nview works, then xnview (a graphical program) should work. It has all image edit needs. Adjust gamma and save to jpeg for example.

It's free and for multiple platforms. Associate it with pcx images.

You can even run batch, select multiple files in the file viewer. But you don't need to do that first, you can just do individual files.

Oh and that xnview doesn't mean it's for the x window system or that it's anything unix crap with a horrible ui, it's just a name.

You certainly don't need Photoshop or Gimp (and don't need to endure their loooong start times) for just slightly editing some shots or photos. 
Shot #2 reminds me of the factory from the movie "Joe and The Volcano." 
CDA Fullvis Runtime 
Just curious JPL, what was the processor?

I have an AMD Athlon 2600+ with 768 MB RAM... it is an old configuration bought 3 years ago, and CDA was released in October 2005... So the gap I could obtained with a brand new processor is not that obvious...

I don't think it is insane to wait for 1218 hours to see your "baby" out, when you spent 7 months building it... It was worth to do, I don't regret, cause as of today, I consider CDA as my best map (visulally at least...)

Also, aguirRe was very happy that I used his vis tool, and that CDA proved it was supporting loooooong run, and was not buggy at all at the end ;) 
I think I have to wait for a multithread vis tool to vis it. 
Well, I posted this before but here is my code for multithreaded LIGHT and VIS that run on OSX.

If someone wants to make that work on Win32, go for it! I'm sure the community would love you to pieces for it. 
I know that multithreading VIS gives you about a 30% speed up with a second processor in your machine so even with a dual core machine, you'd cut that 1218 hours down to 852. Still an assload, but much less of one.

And if you could find someone with an 8-core machine, well, that should give an improvement that would almost bring it into the realm of reasonability. :) 
AguirRe's Vis Tools 
Automatically save the vis data every now and then, so you can stop vis and resume later. I've never had to use that particular feature, but I can't imagine JPL or Kinn not taking advantage of it... imagine if a thunderstorm made the power go out 45 days in!

My maps have never taken more than an hour or so to vis, and my old maps took around the same time to vis on a p200 with 64mb ram. I, however, am not throwing around these big open spaces quite so much as other people seem to be doing these days. If you look at Marcher, you will discover that the main outside area of the map takes up half the available area for making a map in Quake. It's fucking huge.

I wonder how long czg_hate was taking. Care to enlighten us, czg? 
Ch, Chek... 
...skill set beta locked and loaded. Now we wait :) 
Rudl... panels as exterior structural elements just doesn't make sense, even in Quake. 
Wow - Good Discussion! 
Several things:

1 - Somebody PLEASE do a multithread vis for windows. All of you Mac users are getting off on this and rubbing your cocks in glee. We need to make a stand!!! I would do it, but I aint no computer science student, I cant even do QuakeC, and I dont know where to start with compiling from Willems source code. (Did you create that youself BTW Willem?)

2 - Than, your too smart to need a long compile time. Your maps are soo fucking good that you dont need to resort to trying to blow peoples mind with the biggest wide open space. Your maps are just classy.

3 - JPL, Sickbase took 6 and a half days on an Athlon XP1700! CDA would have taken longer on my machine! What did you do for 2 months, aside from tear your hair out, and try to block out the sound of the CPU fans?

4 - Willem, Sickbase was not nice to Quake. Its not nice for anyone! For starters you cant play it, cause it only runs in AguirRes modified GLQuake, or his NehWarp engine is better. I dont think its OSX compatible ATM. Also, the only person who managed to do a Nightmare Hundred Percent run was Sielwolf, who, from what I can gather, has been in hiding ever since. And I have the demos on my hard drive(s), but he told me not to post them. He didnt say anything about not emailing them though....
What I mean is its too hard for you, Willem.

5 - Rudl how long is Fast vis? What is your processor and what vis tool do you use? 
All of you Mac users
All two of them? 
JPL, Sickbase took 6 and a half days on an Athlon XP1700! CDA would have taken longer on my machine! What did you do for 2 months, aside from tear your hair out, and try to block out the sound of the CPU fans?

What I did ? nothing with my home PC (except internet and email accesses), but fortunately I installed QuArK / Quake / etc... on my office laptop, in order to start something else.... Did you think I was just waiting for 1218 hours in front of my PC screen doing nothing ? Come on, be serious ... 
" (Did you create that youself BTW Willem?) "

I didn't do a whole lot in reality. I just fixed up the function calls and type names that Carmack already had in the code so that they worked on OSX. I don't know/think it would be that easy on Windows but it would certainly be worth someone's time to do it! Many people would benefit. 
I Dunno 
But if a map takes more than 24 hours to compile there should be a good reason for it. Marcher had probably the biggest area yet in Q1, outside of a test or beta map and it took a week.

Noclipping around you can see how well optimised it is, whereas eg. Sickbase wasn't so much. I'm not having a go at you Ricky, because the improvement in the Hand was obvious, in all ways.

I think its worth remembering that good mapping isn't good visuals and gameplay alone, but also the technical side of using the tools efficiently to produce the best results.

I know alot of the old Quake sites are 404 but even so a Google for bsp tutorials will still turn up a lot of the old stuff which was thought through back when people were compiling on 486's. Granted we've moved on in the amount of processing power available, but that's not to say that the old methods are now invalid. 
I agree. It's still the same engine at its core and since nobody is rewriting QBSP or VIS, the old techniques and optimization rules still apply. 
5 - Rudl how long is Fast vis? What is your processor and what vis tool do you use?

Several minutes.
Processor is an AMD 6000+ X2
and I use aguirRe's tools 
Marcher had probably the biggest area yet in Q1, outside of a test or beta map and it took a week.

*cough* qte1m1 and m2 *cough* 
made already in 1998 a DM level Kasteel that allegedly took five weeks to do a level 2 vis on a sun ultrasparc 300MHz.

Some years later I did a level 4 vis of the same map in three days on a PIII 600. On JPL's system it'd probably take less than a day now ... 
Bambuz: Thanks, I got gimp running fine now. Xnview is rather good, but the convert part of it is badly documented. With gimp, at least I know how to use it.

The problem is, even when I raise brightness by 50 and contrast by 35 percent, you can't really see any more in the shots. :-/ A tiny bit more, perhaps. It may have to do with the fact that I'm using software rendering with its smack-dark shadows. GLquake looks almost drastically different.

I'm also using tyrlite which seems to enhance the shadows, not the brightness, which I like for this map... using Lord Havoc's light tool for example, it's radically different, almost a radiosity effect like in Quake 2. I could play with different falloff settings etc I guess, but if I did just for the screenshots, they would look nothing like the actual map, which kinda defies the purpose :-)

When it's time, I'll organize some good-looking shots. 
Do not tinker around with Brightness and Contrast, that will look like poo (or take too much time). Instead use the layers -> curves tool. You can save the curve for later usage to save more time. 
Multithreaded Vis 
Seriously, if you guys code up an EM64T-compatible linux multithreaded executable, I'll run it on our supercomputer. I'm curious to see compile times! 
Sickbase Had Really Bad Speeds. 
Practically 0 vis-blocking.
I'm learning still. New map also hs some high detail wide open bits, but I'm trying to bend all of the corridors leading away from it. In Fitz I type r_showtris 1 then run around the map, seeing where the slow spots are.

Rudl - I think my 6 and a half day spout was a 6-7 minute fast vis. I think.

Inertia - trying to get people to code things for us is not easy. I ask all of the time. The ones who are capable just dont listen. I guess they think I'm lazy or ignorant or something. I'd like to think that some coders are working on some new stuff which we would like, but are saving it for a surprise.

I'd like to hear what a supercomputer can do to vis times too!!

AguirRe - I'm glad I didnt make Sickbase on a p133 with 16mb ram. 
I forgot - need to play again. 
Hey would someone be willing to send me one of these ridiculously huge VIS time maps so I could fool with it in ToeTag? I would need the WADs as well of course.

If not, that's cool, but I'd be curious to see what could be done to improve VIS times without huge restructurings. 
I have a map that takes over 30 hours to complete. Do you want just the .bsp and wad file? 
Well, I would need the MAP file so I could look at the brush work. If you're willing to send that and the WAD files to me, that would be awesome.

willem at wantonhubris 
Let's Do A Vis Benchmark 
For some reason, I am unable to send you the email. I have tried to sent it twice already, and each time I did I got a "Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender" a minute later.

Is something wrong on your end? 
Not sure.

try warren at wantonhubris if willem isn't working. 
Upscale the water texture 
Still isn't working Willem. warren at wantonhubris gives me the same error. Any other methods we can try? 
The warp .map source is available at the shub-hub:

With the zip password - warpspasm

They're fairly big maps but the vis time isn't over five hours, warpc is the longest at around that, just because its alot of connected stuff with some dodgy vis-blocking thrown in.

If you want to experiment with it then let me know which map and I can extract a Wadfile tonight. 

I dunno, I sent myself an email just now and it hasn't bounced. Not sure what to tell you.

Maybe do the shub-hub thing that ijed did. Post a link and I'll grab it tonight. 
Okay Willem 
I uploaded the map onto my web space temporarily. You can grab it here:

Let me know when you got it. 
Perhaps you need to specify a root domain name there :) 

I won't be able to grab it until tonight, so please leave it there until later on.

Hey, Orl, all 3 of your emails did come through. I'm not sure why you were getting failures on your end.

Yours too, headthump!

At any rate, thanks! 
that's weird. Well, at least you get em. 
Some Nice Work Being Done 
Very nice ! 
Ive Got The Sickbase Src Do You Want That Willem? 
You can get a wad from the BSP, but its mostly IDbase tex and fury.wad.

AguirRe, do you still have the version of the map source from Sickbase after you altered the solid ents? I think I might have it at home, but I dont have it here at work... I do have the one before you altered the solid ents, i.e. the exact file I sent to you.

Willem - this took 6.5 days to vis!! On an Athlon XP 1700 that is. All that is wrong with the version I have is there are a few flickering ents, cause my solid ents fall into to many places around the map. AguirRe broke them up a bit by hacking the map file. (What a hero!!) 
bsp: 7,28
light: 10,15
basevis: 1.10
full: 39,28 minutes 
Better machine than mine then, but that's not saying much.

By basevis you mean full?

I used a few lighting options like -extra4 and stuff, but also the -gate option that would counter balance any slowdown. 
I thought I had time for VIS research but in reality, I probably don't. :P I have a few maps that people sent me if I DO get time though, but thanks! 
---- Vis 2.31 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup

File: warpc.bsp

7341 portalleafs

20038 numportals

testlevel = 4

average leafs visible: 174

max leafs visible: 594 near (-2560 3968 512)

c_chains: 147877441

visdatasize: 477 kb compressed from 6581 kb

Elapsed time : 39:28

State time : 0:07 
The Hand had something like 3000 max leafs visible.

My new map isnt far off the same!

This is a reflection of speeds, isnt it?

So Warpc is a pretty fast running map, innit.

Its over the lightmaps limit tho, so Ijed makes biiiiiig maps with simple enough brushwork that they run at a good speed. 
Is the max leafs visible thing eqivalent to r_speeds? 
I Dont Really Know But... 
...I think they're fairly relative.

TBH I dont really know what a leaf is. I sort of assume that it's an "area of the map". The more complex the geometry of the map, the more leafs there will be, right? (somebody help me out here...)

It all equates to more triangles on the screen at any one time which is basically kinda what r_speeds is a measure of?

(its very shady around here...) 
you're not too far off.

qbsp divides the worldspace into many small, convex volumes, some solid (inside a brush) and some non-solid (air, water, etc.) A leaf is a non-solid volume of space in your bsp. As you walk around the level, your viewpoint is always inside a leaf. And vis.exe figures out what other leafs you can see from the leaf you're in, and the game will only draw polygons that are touching one of those other leafs. (each leaf has a list of polygons it touches.)

r_speeds actually counts those polygons as they are being drawn.

If you want to visualize a leaf, imagine the simple case of a cube-shaped leaf. It has 6 sides, and some of those sides will be touching other leafs -- these are portals. Other sides of the cube will be touching solid space -- these are polygons (since there's a visible surface anywhere air meets solid.) For example, a leaf in the corner of a room might touch a floor and two walls, and the other 3 sides are portals. 
Do I Understand Correct? 
The number of triangles shown (=r_speeds) is a lot higher than the number of leafs? 
Not necessarily -- some leafs have no polygons (if they are floating in the middle of the room, for example) so they would increase the leaf count but not the r_speeds.

Also, r_speeds counts polygons, not triangles. Each polygon is made up of 1 or more triangles. (square = 2 triangles, hexagon = 4 triangles, etc.) 
Something Else 
I knew the outlines of that, but is it also right that polygons are split by textures - so a 256 square wall with a 128 texture becomes 8 triangles instead of 2?

Also affected by scaled up / down textures? 
it's true that there is a max size to polygons, based on the amount of texture/lightmap space taken up by it. At texture scale 1.0, the max size is 240 in world units, and anything larger gets split.

But all that splitting happens in qbsp, so when the engine is rendering, each polygon is already verified to be 240x240 or less. 
You can visualize that pretty easily, FYI. Just build a large hollow box, compile it, and load it in Quake.

"r_drawflat 1" will show you the BSP splits and where QBSP cut everything up. 
Probably the most concise yet useful explanation of the process I've ever come across. 
Yup, Thanks Metl... 
I now know what a portal is! As well as a few other interesting facts... time I compile I will read the log from a slightly different viewpoint.

So "r_showtris 1" in Fitzquake is showing the triangles which comprise the polygons.
I will try "r_drawflat 1" later and see what that looks like. Are there any other things you can do? Like to see the leafs for example?

I am learning the need to know about these things from a mappers point of view. I want my level to be as big as possible but not limited to certain engines. So I'm always looking at the info in the Qbsp log to see how many marksurfaces etc I have got. Also AguirRe's Bspinfo.exe is usefull to me for the same reason. The only way I can find out how many lightmaps I have is by loading in AguirRe's engine, and typing lightmaps on the console. 
Well, "r_draworder 1" is a fun one because it draws the world backwards so you can see exactly what is being drawn from your current location.

I think that about covers it... 
r_draworder is only supported in software engines (winquake, etc.) i believe.

also, you can see lightmap count in fitzquake using "imagelist" command -- they are numbered starting with lightmap00. 
Sorry, I'm a software guy so that's how I roll. :) 
Willem Doesn't Code On The Shabbos, Either. 
Shomer fucking Shabbos. 
Uh, many dudes you know roll like this, how many dudes you know flow like this, not many, if any, not many, if

how many dudes you know who got the skills to go in and roarck, a show like this, uh uh, uh uh, I don't know any body.

cept Willem, uh uh, uh uh. 
And Than 
he likes software... Im sure I saw a load of shots with pretty square pixels somewhere.... 
biff, you're out of your element. 
I Like Fitzquake 

So there's no way to visualize the current PVS in FQ? Maybe a lockPVS like in q3 would be a good addition if you have the time/desire? 
What is/are PVS?
Darkplaces can show portals (r_showportals 1) and surfaces (r_drawsurfaces 1) (might be slightly different cvar names, from the top of my head) in a very appealing way. And thanks to metl's post I have now understood what portals are. 

PVS = Potentially Visible Set

Basically, he's asking for a way to freeze the rendering engine so that he can walk around and see what the engine was seeing from the spot where he was when he froze it. This is pretty useful to see, in the wild, what Quake is drawing. 
Yeah Well Bear 
I dunno, except that r_showtris is the closest and it prettymuch makes r_draworder obsolete too.

(tuhnu2.bsp by Zaka, recommended for duel) 
Tyrquake has r_lockfrustum and r_lockpvs IIRC. 


Now how did someone manage to have a 127.x.x.x (localhost) IP logged for that post? 
The Posts! They Are Coming From INSIDE The Server! 
Czg is inside the intartubes. Beware, he might come out of your socket at night. 
gg turning this once good thread into generic flame and offtopic banter 
All It Needs... Speeds to pop up being a moany cunt, and it's the complete Func_thread :) 
For RickyT23 And Who Wants To Look 
I support those ikbase shots. The lighting in the last shot looks a bit plain, but you probably know that already... keep it up! 
I really dig the second shot especially, cool supports, and a mix of a lot of elements in the room. 
Yes please. 
Good Work 
Very interesting looking maps. 
Thanks Hrimfaxi 
It was about time somebody posted another screenshot or two on this thread!! After all it is meant for screenshots!

What can I say? Both maps look, er, cool!

After your previous titles I see you have decided to try other styles than the mid-evil one. IKBase is always cool, and it looks like your execution of an IKBase map is promising!

Looking forwards! :D 
Looks good. Very interesting shots... go map ;) 
Hehe Speeds to pop up being a moany cunt, and it's the complete Func_thread :)

It's funny because it's so true!

p.s. make sure you post using nerdux or inertia will be very cranky! 
Totally sexy.
Pics look pretty awesome too. 
p.s. make sure you post using nerdux or inertia will be very cranky! 
Fuckers posting on windows and macs. Just like those coders who deliberately don't release linux versions of their compile tools. 
BeOS is superior. 
"BeOS is superior."

Amiga Workbench fo' lyfe, yo! 
I suck bill gates cock.

It tastes like chicken. 
I would have guessed it tasted like shame. 
are worthless pieces of shit. Atari STs are where it's at.

And Roxette, and Michael Jackson. Uh! 
Qonquer - V1.0 Released 
I released the first version of my mod, Qonquer today.

Let me know if it works for you and/or if you had fun! :) 
Cool mod. Feedback to come. 
Good Going, Willem 
definitely a great variation on the monsters in death match theme. 
There's also a "submit news" button on the bottom of the main page. Cough. 
if this is not a beta release, you could submit it as news. 
Hungover, Opinions Arbitrary 
Minion - nice idea, sometimes got in the way, trapping me in cubbyhole or just being annoying. Player gets close = minion buggers off (when not fighting)?

Qonquer is a strange name, since the player can't Qonquer the maps. I get the arcade form but some progression would be nice. The doors that open the weapons are good - I'd expand on this, maybe have tougher monsters emerging from newly opened areas, and maybe on wave 30 have an exit teleporter open, returning to the hub and giving the player a rune. Finally they unlock the fifth arena (based off Shub's pit) and face the final battle, but nothing stops them from re-entering an old arena to refight it. Just an idea.

Seemed very easy on hard skill at the start of each arena, maybe increase the monster quantity earlier on.

Pretty good, but without the progression of areas I got bored quick, but maybe that's because I need asprin. 
I got the walkmonster in wall error every time a monster spawned in - I think this is a classic spawn bug where the engine checks if the monster can move or not, and returns an error if not. 
Walkmonster in wall fails because your monsters are not onground when they spawn, so they can't walk anywhere, which is the way the qc checks if it's stuck in a wall. You can make sure that droptofloor() is run on each of the spawning walkmonsters, but that would make it impossible to spawn them in the air if you wanted to - even if they weren't stuck there. Probably better to make an exception to that bit of code for monsters which are spawned in. 
The better solution would be for you guys to play with "developer 0". :P 
Willem - Try Brainwashing Everone First... 
...then release mod! Hehe... this is exciting, I will check it out ASAP! :D 
Good Screenies 

I'll dive into conquer, willem! 
make a zip that has the qonquer directory not qonquer/qonquer. It's redundant you know.

Will test before complaining more. 
Tower Of Dal Gurak 
i made a map 'tower of dal gurak' remake of 'Blade of darkness' game, maybe someone wanna beta test it?
note: you need kinn's marcher fortress to play my map
p.s the rocks/cliffs are suxx 
Ill Test It!! 
I haven't ever heard of "Blade of Darkness", but I'll happily test it. Ill do it tonight if you mail it to me within the next hour!!

trowbridge (dot) richard (at) googlemail (dot) com 
No Title 
RickyT23, check your mail 
No Title 
and DON'T FORGET to put the map in marcher's maps directory or you can't play it 
OK, I Got It!! 
So its a map for Marcher progs then? I'll use Marcher.exe.

Feedback tomorrow! :-) 
if you want I�ll test it too, mail is in my profile. 
>So its a map for Marcher progs then? I'll use Marcher.exe.

marcher.exe is outdated glquake by aguirre, version 1.26 or something, i suggest you to use
lastest version 1.32

the map is long time ago ready to release but these fecking rocks/cliffs look like shit i can't properly make 'em, maybe i should play around with terrain generator by nemesis 
Blade Of Darkness 
Top game. Steep learning curve and harsh in places but great atmosphere & combat potential.

Good luck with map. 
BoD was great. I never understood why other developers didn't pinch its melee system. Instead we're still stuck with 'mash button to swing sword in generic arc' systems about five years on! 
Blade Of Darkness 
Looks intersting, will give it a look. 
I have to say, there were numerous times where I just resorted to button mashing out of frustration, so I dont know if I agree on its melee system :) 
...siewolf has done his duty by hammering my level into the ground, and following this humiliation I've made some changes. Now, who else gets close to Mr S for arse-kicking Quake play...I need fresh HARD meat to test this version. 
>I need fresh HARD meat to test this version.
if you want i can send fresh hard meat to you to test:) 
Oh God. Distrans 
I'll do it. Send it to me and I'll try my hardest. 
Who wants to smash some crates? 
Shots For My Upcoming Maps 
You've Been Busy 
I like your style there Orl! You can almost tell its your maps even if nobody said who it was!

These maps look to be interesting to say the least, some very massive buildings and wide open spaces. Classic Quake enemies?

Is there some sort of ferris wheel in one of the later shots?

And as for carving - check out Deja Vu for what NOT to do with the worldcraft carve tool. AguirRe is about the only person who looked at the source, but it's really quite embarrassing. No wander they wouldnt fucking vis!

Not now though - it's triangles all the way for me. Everything must be on grid! ughh.... 
You Did 
great work, Orl! 
I like your style there Orl! You can almost tell its your maps even if nobody said who it was!

My maps are that obvious huh? :)

Classic Quake enemies?

Yeah. I know Quoth2 was just released and, while I do enjoy it, I just prefer the classic.

Is there some sort of ferris wheel in one of the later shots?

Some kind of ferris wheel. It's giving me a heap of problems though, it may have to be removed in the end, but I'm hoping it doesn't come to that.

And as for carving - check out Deja Vu for what NOT to do with the worldcraft carve tool. AguirRe is about the only person who looked at the source, but it's really quite embarrassing. No wander they wouldnt fucking vis!

Heh, I know about all the evils of carving. I used to abuse it so much in my older maps... Now I use it rarely. But again, that picture is just a joke :) I'd like to see Deja Vu's source though, just to look at how you made it, if it's alright with you of course.

You Did great work, Orl!

Thanks :) 
Looks Good 
But the shots seem a bit washed out, a contrast filter might help.

Also shot4 (the green base) they're your textures? I'd maybe sharpen them up a bit to retain the Quake grittiness.

Looking forward to the pack. 
look evil ORL ;) i already test one of then is pure fucking speed fun!!! can�t wait to see the hole pack my fiend! 
Nice Orl 
Good to see you're still working with the complex structures like the wheel and the dome despite all the struggles. One totally unique map, that's for sure.

And thank God for the classics ...

Ricky: Your Deja Vu pack wasn't bad at all, I liked it. And the maps basically only needed sealing, you should've seen some of the mess I've cleaned up before ... 
...thanks for the offer, I might keep you on the reserve bench if that's OK...a couple slipped in before you.

Yes, I know...this particular build process has been one long double entendre. 
you should've seen some of the mess I've cleaned up before

He means me :) 
Present Parties Excluded 
of course ... 
Can I send you a link to my new map AguirRe ?

I get a couple of warnings . . .

Managed to keep track of all my monsters this time though! 
I Still Need More Testers... 
...I've got two. A couple more would be very helpful please!

I Can Do It 
But I'm in NZ (so funny) and only around for the next couple of days before being away for a week or so.

Email in profile if you like. 
so funny *timezone issues*.

I don't get it 
Sure, I can take a look. 
Oh, c'est joli ;) 
i can do the beta test, if you please:) 
I sent it to your gmail account. They're links to mediafire.

Cheers ! 
I'm Looking Forwards To This Map Trinca ! 
Looks like fun 
is a old map RickyT23 is from 2006 but after all the delay in base pack map was almost 2 years in rest!!! doesn�t show my current mapping skills but yes i think is fun ;) 
Looks Good Trinca 
It's gonna be a slow two weeks :)

And I'm praying that this is the last base themed map we'll see for a long awhile. 
If You Need Another Round 
of beta testing, Trinca, I'll be glad to take it for a few spins this weekend. 
And I'm praying that this is the last base themed map we'll see for a long awhile

I don't want to be pessimist, but I think this is only the beginning...... 
thks HeadThump already got neg|ke and ijed help they are great testers ;)

but neg|ke is evil he is never happy :p 
Nice RickyTrinc Map 
but trinca is good and is always kind. 
"but trinca is good and is always kind."

what do you mean? 
Qonquer Map Beta 
Looking for 2-3 testers for a Qonquer map, specifically gameplay and visuals. 
I'd love to give it a go but won't be able to until the weekend. If you can wait, count me in! 
I would do it too. 
since 3 days I�m trying to reach you, but the mail keeps bouncing back (just tried again). I even registered a new accout at yahoo; the mail did send fine with that.

please reply?! 
i got your mail (bernd templous) today, i dont understand why you can't reach me? is it your or mine email glitches? did you receive the last beta i sent you yesterday?

> - the two changed outer areas near start look very bland (big scale),
maybe put some more trees/ruins etc. there

there is already almost 7000 brushes, so i don't know should i add something more (ok, maybe trees)

>- the tele texture at the MH secret seems to be too close to the walls
i never noticed 'bout first one (tnx)
the second is fixed now

>- it&#180;s possible to telefrag the first shambler at the SK
yeah i know about it (is it bad or good?)

>- the big battle before the final lift - why do you keep the doors open
it's fixed now (when you enter in the room, the door closes, after the battle the both of doors are open now)

>the last boss door(ditto)

ps. sorry for a long post
pps. thank you for suggestions
ppps. i'll send you new beta tonight ok? :)) 
Feeling Better Sielwolf? 
i missed you :) 
I get *your* mails, but I can�t send from my home account; I will send from the other account then (yes send the new beta if you like).

@Ricky: slightly, thanks for asking :) 
sent it to ounij@------ is it right? 
i know neg!lke can be mean, but that's why he's a beta tester.

Here's another one of my map,
it is getting to wide again... 
Love the way the lighting looks in that shot, in particular the way it picks out the architectural details of those towers. I think it would really help if the floors had a different texture to the walls, at the moment it's not very defined. Also, the water texture does not suit at all. If you're trying to capture the reflection of the sky, your best bet would be a golden brown colour, which would also look okay as dirty water under the archways. At the moment it looks like a huge portal to the unknown - I'd jump in that and expect to be teleported. 
look nice madfox 
The water texture is indeed out of order. I get some strange effects on the pillars, some of them seem to noclip, others don't.

I was glad, because the map only gave me 6 warnings. Then I decided to rebuild this part nice on grid and then suddenly the warnings went up over 300. 
Looks Good Madfox! 
Er, good luck with the warnings! 
The compilers warnings... I mean, when a map compiles, it is playable.

Will avoid or correct these warnings make a better gameplay?
Let's say, I've got two maps of the sanme subject, one with 6 and one with 300 warnings.

Both maps play good, what's the difference?
Or is a warning a caution or a breaking compile rule, which affects the playability of a map? 
If the map lights and gets through VIS without a problem, odds are you're good to go. Many of the messages that QBSP spits out are harmless warnings. 
some warnings make leeks and this is not good... my older maps had warnings now they dont have any... 
Me Too ! 
Well ATM I get:

TxQbsp - 3 warnings
Vis - 1 warning
Tyrlite - 3 warnings.

I used to get a lot more! THTFY had 15 TxQbsp warnings...

The vis warning scared me, but it still works so no problem :-)

Warnings are getting less & less with every map!

Deja Vu had loads of warnings and every map was boxed. I've learned a lot since then! 
Just Wondered 
Making a map is great, sure when there aren't much warnings.

It can feel such as a waist, when adding a new part which is mapped fine, suddenly raises these warnings. 
Well, Quake is an ancient game engine. The fact that we can make maps for it at all is something of a miracle. :) And yes, errors can be disheartening - especially considering how little Quake does to help you fix them.

"new portal clipped away"

Oh thanks! Yeah, I'll get right on fixing that. Sheesh... 
True That! 
Yeah, it's pretty amazing that the engines and tools still run and are fairly solid (and we have some nice new versions to play with as well).

The mystery errors and (at times) seemingly unfixable problems can really break your spirit though, at least when you're starting out with the Quake stuff. You learn real fast that you need to get it compiling ASAP, and do regular builds to make sure QBSP and the other tools are still happy. At least that way, when the compiler does choke, you'll have a pretty good idea what killed it (likely something you recently added).

The best error I ever had with QBSP was some crap like CHECKFACE: BUGUS or something similarly cryptic. I wish I could remember exactly what it was (not sure if that's it). Anyway, after hours of searching on the web, all I could find was one post or webpage about the error... some guy reckons he asked Carmack about it, and he supposedly walked away muttering and shaking his head...

Not sure if that's true or not, but it makes for a good story. :) 
Yeah, that reminds me of when I started out. I would build 2 or 3 rooms before compiling. This was before editors would load the pointfile or any of that helpful stuff. What a nightmare.

You really do quickly learn to get the new area into a sealed, compilable state before adding all the trim and detail work. It's just not worth it to fly blind. 
real bad with maths, but if I compile two maps without errors, the both still can give a lot of them.

that's what made it so diverse. I used to make maps from one room to another, just watching where the error count goes.
Now I compare parts and put them partly together, arised with that error count.

I'm not using prefabs, probably the reason. 
I Seem To Have Developed A Technique... 
...just watch yourself when your making something. Rectangles and cubes are no problem to keep on the grid, but when you start messing around with triangles or wedges, just make sure its on grid. Also, we all know you can overlap brushes in .maps, but the point where the lines cross - that has to be on grid! I think this is a big causer of errors - lines overlapping off-grid. Cause you KNOW Qbsp is gonna put it on the grid, and it might no necessarily go where you wanted! All of a sudden you have a bad bsp. 
"Also, we all know you can overlap brushes in .maps, but the point where the lines cross - that has to be on grid! "

I really doubt that's the case. QBSP doesn't snap the intersection points to the grid, just the brush vertices.

I might be wrong on that count as I haven't studied the code in-depth but a BSP compiler that snapped every resulting vert to the grid would be extremely limited. 
Hmmm, Interesting! 
Well, ha ha! It occurs to me that I dont know what a vertice is!

But heres an image, possibly better explaining what I mean (you may have to make sure you are viewing the image full size)

I know that the Doom3 engine allowed things to be ultimately snapped onto a 0.125x0.125 grid...

I assume, I suppose, that things have to be on grid. I dont really know.

It would just certainly explain a lot of the problems and issues I have run into while mapping. But I do strive to understand it better, so please, explain... 
you might have to download that image to view it! click the link and then select "download image", on the website... 
Your image link isn't working but my basic understanding is that the brush vertices really should be on the grid for best results. What happens after they get chopped up by BSP isn't necessary to be on the grid since there's no danger of floating point creep there. It's compiled once and saved.

There -may- be some sort of snapping that occurs during processing but whatever it is, it will be way smaller than a 1 grid unit.

But there's no harm in lining up your brushes like you are if you want to, so really it's a personal choice. 
Pretend my post was written in comprehensible English and it reads much better. Sheesh. Is it Friday yet? 
Nope, Thursday! 
What's floating point creep? 
It's technical but if you save a float value over and over again in a text format file, for example .MAP, the values will change slightly each time due to floats only having a set number of decimal points. You lose a little precision each save and eventually the vertices drift apart ever so slightly and you get leaks and errors in your maps.

That's why the early Quake editors had so much trouble and eventually everyone switched to storing vertices as integers for the most part. 
It's A Thing In An Argument 
it's the evil twin of the counterpoint - you can't counter it since it floats. 
Cavey Mountains 
I tried some more with the mountain.mdl as some terrain mapping. It appears as the triangle methode is worth its effort.
Texturing and lighting are undone, just to see it would vis well. 
I have this map with a monster in the wall. When player enters it triggers the monster with a trigger_once. Because the monster is in the wall it takes 5 sec to leave its place. So this place needs to be sealed. It takes a func train with 5sec delay to seal the wall again.

Is it possible to give the monster a target to the func_train so it opens the wall again when it dies?

For now I can only make the func_train wait for another 30 sec untill the monster is killed. What of course is only an approximately moment. Better would be to connekt it to the monsters death. But I can't see how. 
If the monster is angry at the player automatically when triggered (not targetting a path) then you should be able to target it to a trigger_relay, which it will fire when it dies, AFAIK this can be pointed at the train. But I'm not sure.

There's alot of bugs in these kind of setups (you can't killtarget and target from the same relay, for example) and the methodology isn't very clear.

I assume you've got your own code base - compare monsters and triggers with other mods that have a much cleaner trigger system - Quoth1 and 2, for example. 
AFAIK this can be pointed at the train

but a trigger_relay won't fire a func_train to a destiny point.
Already tried. I guess I got to keep it to a timelimit. 
I get the idea.

You could always use two trains and killtarget one whilst the other moves into place.

A hack, basically - but it'd probably work. 
That Looks Freaky 
interesting combination of textures
nice lighting 
look nice! 
Looking Good Except 
the skull tex doesn�t fit somehow 
Cool architecture, but flat lights (I guess it is not yet lighted ?) More shots please !! 
its not flat its realistic
besides this map is not for looking at 
Cos I'm going to play it with my monitor turned off. 
why are you posting screenshots?

Oh well. Looks pretty good anyway. 
ok I wont. map`s cancelled. have a nice day 
You are a beautiful flower. 
No Vermis 
Goddammit Negke 
statistical significance of sexiness is overwhelming 
that looks great 
That looks -sick-! Nice work. 
I Like The Look Of It Too... 
...what theme is it? 
Looks really nice !! 
Negke's Mapping 
...defies themes and other mundanities. 
That theme is called "Negke's New Theme".

Looks great by the way, most interesting looking map since Aderlass?

But please post no new shots until it's released. 
No name, just a semi-arbitrary mix of green, red, brown (surprise!), bits of blue, and beige trim. Or something. 
Dunno What The First Link Is Speeds 
Firefox wont let me open the php file. But the second shot looks cool. It doesnt offend me at all. I love the green walkway and the sinister blue lighting, very atmospheric-looking :-O 
It Is 
offending. What are those things? Is the lighting broken disco style? 
is turning to disco gay quakey :P 
hey look, a shitty map in a shitty quake engine. 
Finally have it straight. Attack0.
Pepakura has its own oppertunity.

Don't mind the logo. 
you are barmier than a bag of carrots

nice origami though 
everyone loves parfait.

are your carrots really having a bag? 
cant you just upload a vid to youtube?
for ppl who dont have java 
I Have Only Just Realised What The Hell That Was!! 
Was it a model dinosaur?

Tell me that this is what has happened:

You have made a model dinosaur out of wood or cardboard or plastic or paper or something, then taken pictures of it from loads of angles in a circle around it, then used java to make it so a PC viewer can scroll around it by dragging the mouse.

Brilliant! :D

You could have made it into a GIF, but then it wouldnt have been interactive.

Why not make it into an mdl then animate and program it as a Quake monster? 
It Is Already A Quake Model 
It's a papercraft of a Quake model. 
Heh, If You Keep Spinning It To The Right It Gradually Zooms In. 
It just happened when I watched Discovery Channel. Suddenly there was this dot of paper with a hand. Then the hand drew back and left an origami elephant of the paper.

It was just a second or two, but I couldn't get it out of my head.
Then I found Pepakura, a chinese site to turn dxf models into a flat paper match.
So I decided to make one of my models, and of course it went wrong. Untill my next attempts.

The Java applet comes with PhotoVista, a program to make 3D scenes of your house and show objects. I already tried some Quake maps which gives a Atlantis-like feeling. Pity the java plugin needs credit.

Here's an example of the monster:

and here's a gif of the file: 
Basepack Map Status 
Still quite a lot to do but the end is in sight. This got a bit out of hand and has turned out a much bigger map than I wanted to make initially. It's about 8200 brushes at the moment. All the major areas are now in but there is still a bit more detail and tweaking that needs doing before I sort out all the gameplay, which is currently in a really early state.

Note there are a lot of funcs that are added for detail that are not visible in the shot, so some areas look rather empty. They are not, I assure you.

No proper shots for now, but here is an overview of the level. There are a couple of old shots on my temporary site here: 
That looks really smart! Hurry up and finish! 
And While Your At It 
ASP3 looks great too :)

Halt your life please and finish it for us, you owe it!! :) 
It looks indeed very big ! Nice work: now go map and finish it please ;) 
/me loves than :) 
Mase Back Pathos 
I will get bastardmap status anyway than 
(it really is quite remarkable isnt it ^^ ! ) 
Rad shot dude. Can't exactly get the full flavour but it's a cool way to present it. And of course we trust your mad skillz :) 
Screenies At Bottom Of This Thread 
Tech Proto

exported meshes from MAX, blended terrain, foghull culling. ~30k tris onscreen 
Oh hey, that's a neat map idea! Very cool! 
So I think I've finally found a method of mesh deconstruction that looks like it might work in the end. It's almost there. I've tried a lot of different things and finally have this much working at least:

It's getting there. It messes up on complicated meshes still but I'm working on it! 
Cool But 
why not mod the compilers to support meshes?
qbsp is the main problem, not the editors 
I can't find the source anywhere on your site, did you forget to upload it? 

I tried that. It's harder that it appears to get QBSP to accept meshes. For me, anyway. It really, really, really wants convex shapes.


It doesn't have my latest QBSP, however. Once I figure out what I'm going to do there I'll upload it as well. 
I mean the source of ToeTag. 
How long until I'll be able to use UE3, export my level as OBJ, import into ToeTag, compile and play it in Q1?


Ahh, no, not yet. I'm not sure when would be the best time to do that. I might set it up as a download once the 2.0 release is done (which is the one I'm working on now). Maybe in a few months.


I hate you. :) 
Unspeakable Horror 
What The Hell Is That Suppose To Be ^^^ 
Firefox rejects it.

It's just a load of jibberish weird characters?!?! 
Judging By 
the url containing "session=" and nothing else, methinks speedy copy-pasted the wrong link 
<- Uses Telepathic Force 
That's a pretty good psyhcic attack there.

Than, that looks the business. 
That Looks Like 
one of the old unreal dm maps. 
I Just LOVe That Coloured Lighting! 
How tremendous! 
I Love 
the exit sign on top of the tele. The real universal exit sign.
How handy would those be in buildings on fire!

It should have fullbright green glow tho. So I think that shot is not perfect because of that. 
Yeah I thought it was built in original Unreal at first. Then I thought "No, that's a really colorful Portal map." Then I was like "Oh my that's Quake." 
that lighting is way too subtle 
Holy Shitballs 
Well it's not called ImagePILE for nothing I guess. 
Death Is Not Final 
That Enforcer Is Purple 
It Must Be Wash Day 
It's The New Breed 
shooting love in cans 
Non Washday Comments 
Love all the work with the trims, the way all the girders have that exposed metal edge to them. It could just be the angle, but the barrels look really out of proportion to the enforcer. Perhaps making them shorter and about twice as narrow would be better. 
Death's Final 
I really like the enforcer shot, the details are really big and solid looking. Those barrels are big though, unless you're going for huge silo things that aren't normal map barrels. Make the blue sky lighting just a tiny tiny bit more subtle and it'd be perfect. Not sure who posted the shot though, was it you MadFox? 
me was death,
myself also,
and I already. 
<Friction> Repppossstttt: 
<Friction> because everyone loves crushers 
Good feel in that second shot. 
Hurry up and release that thing!! It's been what, 3 years? 
What's The Rush 
You're harshing my mellow. 
Is this the same fucking Doom3 map you were making like 5 years ago?? 
Jesus, he still hasn't released that?

Nice to see some things don't change 
Mapping For Doom3... uniquely detailed, dramatically lit, wall panel at a time. 
I gotta say, some of these maps are dropping into legend :)

Friction, Kinn, im looking at YOU!

(go map) 
Oh And Thanks 
for the ftp links! 
Pot Calling The Kettle Black? 
How long since you released a map, DAZ? :D

(Not saying you're wrong!) 
The Dnf Of Maps

I hope he releases it one day, because the beta from th 10 year anniversary qexpo was really nice. 
Nice Texturing 
The door seems shifted to the left (different floor) and not yet "cut out" though.
I like the subtle colored lighting too. 
ok after 25-10-2005 in sm109 i finally put a end to the mapping, got many reasons but the biggests are my family and my time in work that is smaller everyday... i�ve only got two scraps in my hard drive maybe someday someone might finish then, or not. :\

I will continue on the community and i surely will keep comments and record demos on others people maps, because I think is one of the most satisfied retribution from the players to the mappers.

Hope this community keep mapping because i like most part of then a lot, and i want to keep playing Quake. 
Why make an official cut off of mapping, though? Just put it on the back burner and do it as time permits. I don't see the reason for announcing an official cut off point unless you're trying to quit an addiction or something. 
Willem why dont you shut the fuckup? i didn�t ask you anything...

this msg wasn�t for people like you... 
Then STFU and take it to email. This is a public message board in case you didn't notice. We can all see your posts. 
Calm Down Trincoa 
many people in this community need to growup...

do u think i got nothing better to do then write emails with people i dont like??? get a grip... 
Thanks for your fun maps, Trinca! 
thks Spirit :) i like a lot of people in this community and i will not forget then! 
"do u think i got nothing better to do then write emails with people i dont like??? get a grip..."

No, write the emails to PEOPLE YOU THINK WOULD CARE. Fuck, go take a nap. 
Spirit You Use Linux And Thus Have No Privacy. 
All the best to you in your personal life and thanks for the ride :) 
Come on, you do not need to provide a map each week: Look at me, I'm providing a map each 7 months roughly, and it becomes longer in between each delivery. Nobody is requesting any minimum output level here: I'd rather prefer to see 1 map per year with decent quality (like Kinn provides) rather than a map each day with full of crap.
I just mean I'm pertty sure you can find a mean between stop mapping and being prolific :P
It's up to you
However, I hope we'll get in touch later on ;) 
Joke Of The Day 
many people in this community need to growup...

btw Im quitting q1 mapping too 
please test this map, especially the quad: 
First assessment: lol

I like the texture work on the floor tiles/trim. Ceilings could use a little more detail, 'hangar' door, too. There's a clipping issue at the window frame right of the RA.
The Quad trap is a nice joke but most likely annoying in proper games - though it probably could be regarded as a lava/void/hazard-like obstacle.

Let's 1on1 it online sometime soon. 
Well, I simply played it and the butt-surprise made me think of you for some reason. Weird and creepy, isn't it? 
I wonder what made you think that... 
Trinca And Willem 
Handbags out, ladies!! 
Whassup, Trinca? 
...Just had a quick trip through Tchak. It's easily the best architecture you ever produced, and it does not seem far from complete... Why don't you finish up this one? The old ones will thank you for eternity...

As JPL said, take it easy, anything within the next 50 years or so is good... 
Is this the same Friction that made the Iron Yard? 
Yeah That's The Guy 
Hi Hipshot 
I'd say welcome to func_msg but it looks like you've been registered for a while :O Post more :) 
Oh Dang! 
well.. with 2 people leaving, I don't think I can anywhere NEAR fill that spot. I have however started on a q1 dm map. I'll post pics and throw around downloads in #terrafusion for playtesting sessions and feedback. Hopefully people actually record demos so I can watch though (I'm looking at YOU inertia ;)

Sad to see you go Trinca, but I can understand not having much time at all (now that I've just recently got a daughter). Make sure you keep in touch in irc like you promised :)

Speeds.. noooo oh well! hehe I hope this means that you will map for a newer game maybe? I hope so! 
"(now that I've just recently got a daughter)"

roulfff i got two boys ;)

one with 5 ~years and another with 3 month almost 
Email it... and get your damn server working so we can playtest!

I'll see if I can run a non-retarded server, actually... I might have an old kteams mod somewhere. 
To " The Silent" (i Like This Italian Bitch) :) 
One of the stuff i like more in this community is the way people participate...

people like Willem, necros, kell, madfox and others that like to see people comment there�s maps and then don�t comment at all of just comment the great map that old dudes that map something like 5 or more years make great maps... or receiving emails about Quoth2 and never responded� is a very mature way to deal with people� I already got two kids I don�t have to take care of other�s people kids.

Apart from family this is my second major reason is very satisfied to make a map and having 2 demos... and only 20 comments... is really very motivated... honestly take me almost all motivation because i don�t just map for fun, i also map to keep this community alive and to have feedback from the people...

my maps suck? they might i have really few time to map so i cant progress as much as i wanted to...

When i started my last map in progress tchak is invested lots of time in it and then i realise that scale is all fuckedup and will loose something like one fucking year to map for nobody reply or just to condemn the than bastard...

This made me think?!?!? does is worth finish?
Honestly i don�t think so...

Why waste my precious time on mapping if nobody cares about it and just love the fucking work of professionals?

I would like that people could all be like Shambler, he always make comments bad or good is a way that he have to reattribute us, i wish that someday the few that we are don�t let this die because IF U FUCKING PLAY THE MAP YOU HAVE A FUCKING MORAL OBRIGACION TO COMENTS EVEN IF IT USES 2 LINES OR A STUPID DEMO DIEING AT START WITH 10 OR 20 KILLS.

ok ok, i�ve said what I had stuck in my trough.

P.S-> I now my English sucks, sorry for that but my Portuguese is much better then anyone in here.

thks god that some people in this community still rock! god bless Spirit, JPL, Ricky, Negke, ORL, Sielwolf, Shambler, HT, Hrim e.t.c sorry for those that i didn�t add. 
Whatever happened to mapping ... for fun? That's what we used to do in the olden days. We didn't care if anyone was going to comment on the map - hell, in those days, if you wanted to comment on a map you had to send the author an email!

If you're looking for comments and stroking after each release you're doing it for the wrong reasons, IMO. Do it for yourself.

I didn't write ToeTag to hear anyone's oohs or aaahs. I did it because it was a tool that I wanted to write.

Have fun doing it because you WANT to or don't do it at all. I'm sorry that you now feel the need to lump me in with the "bad guys" now but that's fine. I'm one of those old school bastards you seem to generally dislike anyway. 

like hell you do. feedback comes at the user's discretion and should never be taken for granted. if i felt forced to leave a comment i'd probably be less inclined to. 
"if i felt forced to leave a comment i'd probably be less inclined to."

chif you made me cry... 
My First Map 
anyone interested in checking out my first map?
check it out here:

also, im having some trouble with creating the .aas for bots and the map is still not showing up even though i have a .arena file setup. ? 
Hey man - its cool to see a first map, for Quake3!

Looking at the shots I would say that you definately need to texture your map! The lighting looks OK, but I would guess it's hard to judge the lighting properly on an untextured map. But then again what do I know - everybody has a different way of mapping!

Although for me the texturing is always used from the start, it is kind of an integral part of the theme. For me ultimately the textures I use will have an effect on the layout of the map, but others will disagree with me on that one....

nice work :P

I have never made a Quake3 map, and unfortunately I dont have a copy of Quake3, so I cant try it out . . .

Trinca - Your last map is on, and my last map isnt!! Your map got some great reviews! Hehe - your a fine mapper! Now go map. 
it looks like he's sorting out the gameplay and proportions/scale first, which is actually a good approach since once you make some cool detailed geometry, it can be harder to change/delete it for gameplay's sake. 
No more shots please!


Well I've never even made a deathmatch map! So I cant really say anything about that. I'm just not used to things which are som much still WIP, or even to see things which are almost finished but completely one-colored! There goes more evidence of my amateurish approach to things... 
Once You Figure Out 
how to build gameplay, doing the visuals is almost easy. 
says pseudo-mapper 
Sounds like you were mapping for the wrong reasons, and it was a good decision to stop. 
how do you know that inertia? 
Pretend I am anonymous. 
Hi-dy Hos 
While I can't map with the laptop when on the road, Blender works fine, so I've been doing some more of the next best thing, modeling:

There is a monster from one of the Quake2 mission packs whose design, animation and attacks I have taken a shine too. I forget which of the packs it is from, but I found it repackaged in a mod called XXX.

I'm more fussy about copyrighted material now than I was a few years ago when using Daikatana textures didn't phase me, so instead of just repackaging it in a mod, I decided to ripoff the original with a variation of the design from scratch of my own.

The model on the left is the original, the one on the right is the one I made this afternoon. Note the use of edge loops in my baby.

Here are a few more angles:

and a final dramatic render:

Thank you for your time, you may now go back to discussing our screwed up sapien species and the validity of mental states on a subjective or scientific level (woah, not judging here, you are all beautiful and unique in my eyes, except for you, inertia). 
it's the stalker from the ground zero pack. I noticed you took all the edges/spikes away which made the original quite fierce looking, the head looks kinda stump now.
But maybe you're going for some cute n cuddly monster :) 
Thanks For The Info, Sielwolf 
I'm going for a more organic Quake feel instead of the biomechanical Quake 2.

The overall plan this badboy is to have a one level total conversion ready for the QExpo. I'm working on the animation right now. Modeling and skinning I feel
confident about, but I suck at animation. 
Looks Interesting 
Except that I can't tell what the hell it's supposed to look like right now. I might have more luck once it has a skin... 
I Know What You Mean 
after I do a rough conversion, I'll be able to get an accurate current polycount, and then I'll know how much detail I can add on to the model, esp. in the undefined head area. 
Organic . . . 
Is ok, but the best Quake monsters have spiky claws - Fiends, Shamblers and the Vore's legs.

What attacks are you thinking? I remember they spat poison, swiped with their claws and had some sort of climb along the ceiling ability - but that might have been a mod. 
Pretty Much 
claw attacks, side to side sweeps and paralyzes (slowing the player down temporarily) are the ideas I'm working with. I have no idea how I would do ceiling crawling, might look into it though, there should be some useful code to show how it can be done in Nehara given what the Vore could do in it. 
wasn't written in qc, though, so good luck with that... 
Code From It Isn't Difficult 
to understand; Pascal is just a stricter procedural language than derivative languages based on C. I could never get that code base to compile with the tools that came in the SDK, though. 
Is This That Thing With The Toungue 
that sucks the life out of you?

Also is it going to be mecha or fauna or both? 
Thing With Tongue Was The Parasite 
the stalker is a spider like enemy, it can indeed run on the ceiling. The behaviour is much like the spiders in Travail (dodging grenades right when player fires grr) 
Stalker Thing 
looks kinda flatter and boxier than the original, despite it containing a lot more polys, maybe that was the intended look I dunno. 
My Lovely Lady Lumps 
Flatter? Take a good look at those haunches -

-- and tell me you wouldn't want to put a squeeze
on that backside. 
Snapper (not the final name) is progressing at a pretty fair
clip. I even have an in game version of him up and running. The code for this version isn't mine so I'm not going to link the Q1 ready model.

However, if anyone is modding for Quake, need a monster, and know there way around Blender, feel free to use the blend file:

here's a pic of the skeleton rig:

The heels need to be narrowed for some definition, and so does the back. Also, there are some pincers around the mouth I am not happy that I'll need to rework. They look chintzy compared to the rest of the model. You'll see in the upcoming shots. 
Now For The Fun Stuff 
I wanted to see how well the creature looks in Quake at an early stage, so I made a rudimentary set of animations congruent with the animations set up for this simple QC creature (only 30 frames):

I was also pleased to find upon converting snapper that he was a mere 2044 faces in size which is withing the bounds of the format for Quake. He runs smoothly when I tested in toChris and Dark Places.

some in game shots (the skin is rudimentary as well, it is the fiends face auto splotched over one hundred times and then made seamless), here's a nice sequence:

Snapper fights with an Ogre:

Poor snapper lying dead on beside an an Ogre:

Snapper searching for the Ogre who shot his paw: 
Looks Like Out Of The Shrak TC 
needs perhaps more Lovecraft/weirdness, the head appears too small imo. 
It Is Difficult To Notice 
with the dark skin, but his face is long like the general in the last Star Wars trilogy. It'll help with the weirdness factor when I do a real skin job for it. 
Thanks For That Input 
now, I know what it needs, those claws should be asymmetrical where the clamps fold in at different lengths and one claw is much larger than the other for a proper Lovecraftian vibe. Thanks again Sielwolf! 
UT3 Lovin 
Working on a UT3 map, some crappy shots because I'm just now getting to the decoration part of it :) 
Always good to see UT3 stuff in progress! 
If you have UT3, my primary mapping influences were CTF-Strident and DM-Biohazard. I helped on almost every map, of course, but those 2 were the ones that I designed and primarily meshed/lit. 
Who did Diesel, Arsenal and brownish/gothic'ish 2-4 player DM map (the name of which escapes me)? 
I believe Arsenal was David Spalinksi. Diesel is a map that was done awhile back but I can't remember who did it originally. And the brownish map might be Sentinel? If so, that's also Spalinksi. 
tell Epic to make a real unreal sequel, k? :) 
If You Make A Naked Dom Scene In Gears 2 I'll Mention It On My Blog. 
tell Epic to make a real unreal sequel, k? :)

Daz is correct.

I can't believe that U2 was fairly average. It had the potential to be the Best Game Evar. Sequel to the amazing Unreal developed by the people who did the very good mission pack and the rather classy Wheel Of Time. How could it fail?? Hmph. So yeah, proper U2 plzkthxbye. 
Unreal 2 sucked. Unreal sucked. Unreal 2 IS a real unreal sequel, people.

And frankly, fuck a real unreal sequel. Let's see a real Quake sequel ffs. 
Yeh, Unreal 1 sucked about as much as spending years running through dark, brown corridors and suddenly emerging into a brightly lit, outdoor environment with vast waterfalls, caverns and temples that made your jaw hit the floor.

(seriously, I remember getting out the prison ship and looking down at the water fall took my breath away. And then I realised I could jump into the lake...) 
I liked unreal
It was scary.

Unreal 2 was too juvenile and felt completely on a rail. It just sucked. 
was phenomenal for its time. None of its followup games have even approached that level of ambition. 
I concur. 
(seriously, I remember getting out the prison ship and looking down at the water fall took my breath away. And then I realised I could jump into the lake...)

Who DOESN'T remember that! Even crawling along at 10fps with loading pauses and hitches on my woefully out of date system didn't ruin that moment for me, definitely up there in my top 5 gaming moments ever.

Unreal 2 totally missed the point in my opinion, where was the exploration? The wonder of the environments? and the uneasy push forwards into the unknown... Epic failure (to coin a phrase!). 
Hominy, Hominy, Hominid 
the dude (one on the right) I've been working on tonight --

is inspired by the Berserker from Quake 2. I've always thought the Berserker cut a great figure with those high hips and long legs. Instead of hammer and half of a scissor attachments, this dude carries around a pair of missile launchers.

I will need to change the design of the missile launchers to look more missilelaunchery. The missile launcher combo makes him look somewhat like the heavy MJ-12 troopers in Deus Ex.

I got hammy with the edge loops tonight; I may
rebuild him from scratch. It depends on how well he deforms during animation. 
A double rocket launcher wielding mech soldier departs too far from the theme (alternate dimension alien). I've thought up an alternative idea, he'll wield double needle guns that spread out like fans when he his ready to attack to allow three needles per round, similar to the Hell Knight spread fire. The needle guns can double as m�l�e weapons in close combat. 
Are These Gonna Work Under Standard Quake? 
Me like cool monsters..... Me see many polygons and fear DP dependency.... 
Unreal Sequel 
the only true unreal sequel si fan-made mod called operation na pali. imho it is even better than unreal itself. and it free. unreal 2 is short and borring. 
New Q3 Map. 
Looks Cool!!! 
Me jealous! 
that map is pure class, easily your best gameplay map and the looks are as usual quality. Scale feels just right and plenty of nice trick jumps too.

If I get some time over the weekend, I will give this a whirl with a mate to see how weapon and item layout is.

why is bot support so bad? nothing in the layout that should warrant it IMHO. 
The Bots Get Sidetracked 
admiring the setting. 
Just a couple of ideas from looking at the mesh, but the first thing I thought wasn't missile launchers but that the end of the arm would extend on a rail and then slam back, like a piston, as a kind of mechanical punch attack. Maybe a bit close to the original CC only enemy.

If you remember the Robocop2 bad 'guy' you'll know what I mean.

Mind you, if you're wanting that netherworld alien vibe then maybe the splinter cannon things could work with those blade-looking edges being a slice of the same crystal that the weapon fires, used as a cutting edge. 
Mind you, if you're wanting that netherworld alien vibe then maybe the splinter cannon things could work with those blade-looking edges being a slice of the same crystal that the weapon fires, used as a cutting edge.

That's a pretty cool idea. I could put some blue or blueish green colors in the palette to represent crystal surfaces.

Me like cool monsters..... Me see many polygons and fear DP dependency....

I got carried away with the hands as I always do because they are the most challenging part of the anatomy to model. However, I'll scale those back and it should fit the Quake 1 limits fine. I'll test in both ToChris, a nice software rendered Quake, and also FitzQuake. They are both Quake standards compatible, whereas GLQuake isn't. 
At first I was thinking of Q3 type reflection shaderfx, but a nicely painted crystal would work on its own.

Polytrails! Bloom!

->It's Quake!

He, He 
Polytrails! Bloom!

Yeah, this one is going to be completely retro (I'll include 24 bit targas non palette converted files for all of the model skins, and textures as a seperate down load for those who want that), just some additional smoothing, higher polies since no one still uses PII's and gyro physics in the game play. It is really the heart of why I started this little project.

Working title for it is Ferocity, FWIW

Mortisville is still around, but I'm moving it over to Quoth and using the assets for something else in the works. 
If Anyone Hasn't Seen This In #tf Yet

thread at some icky other forum:


Mainly looking for gameplay feedback, because inertia and I have polished it up as far as a filename that ends in "g", so a wider base of opinions would be helpful. 
Lun Sorry No Gameplay Feedback. 
But a few comments:

1. Sound for the lift is b0rked.

2. Maybe *too* friendly towards slope-jumping, i.e. some of the slope trim makes it a "go anywhere" map and could reduce navigation challenge.

3. Rivets on the orange texture are ugly, and there is perhaps a bit too much orange texture. Smaller rivets and perhaps another texture might be nice.

Other than that I think it's cool. Good design, good build, good theme. Quad placement is genius. Looks very "fast and furious".

Hmmm. What are good bots these days?? 
I would rather ask for a server where the map is downloaded: any QWers interested ? I like when people kick my ass on QW... I'm not that good in DM you know :P 
The lift is silent intentionally, because when it was the only thing in the map that made a lift sound it was really easy to gank anyone using it in a tournament.

And it has less orange than efdm9 which was not too orange for anyone! 
looks nice, be sure to submit that as a news item here when you release the final version. 
Hipshots Map 
reminds me of TF2 maps for some reason. I think its the panelled buildings and various windows and angled roof parts that do it.

Looks nice, if I still had quake 3 still I would give it a try for sure. 
I thought a modern version of "The Doom that came to Dunwich" Fingers made back in the day.

I could load it in Warsow, but then the weapons wouldn't all work :( 
Is blender a free program? I remember reading something like that a while ago...

How is it compared to 3dsmax? 
I think Blender is still free. I'm not an expert on either program, but Blender seems to be very useful/powerful and easy to learn for being free. 
Google Is Great

Indeed its still free, and seems very feature complete.

I've only been looking at it for 20 minutes, the interface is very alien to me so far but im sure it will fall into place with time and practice. 
I Haven't Used The Latest Versions 
of Max nor Maya. I have older versions of both on disk but haven't bothered to install on this system as Blender suits my needs. Blender is easier to use than any of the previous versions of Max, and the tools set is modern enough for what I want to do with it.

There is a learning curve with animation, but modeling is easy. I'll give you a quick lesson now that will be useful in 90 percent of what you do in Blender.

See that cube up in the middle of the screen at start up? Notice the interface beneath, it says object mode on the menu bar. Press the tab key, now it flips into edit mode. Press the little hand that you see on menu tab. Now the green and arrows surrounding the cube are gone. I get rid of these first thing for no other reason than they annoy the fuck out of me.

Look farther down the menu bar, and you will see a triangle. Press that, and you are now in face mode (vertice manipulation is the starting point in edit mode). Now press your alt key down and at the same time press the left mouse button. The view point rotates around now. Play with it until you get a good view of the top cube face. Now move the cross hairs over to the face, press the right mouse button. It will highlight that face. Press the E key (for extend), and then you can move the mouse up and down to extend the new poly you have created. Pressing Y, X and Z will alter the direction of the extension.

Other buttons that are useful, 's' for scale, 'g' for get and 'r' for rotate, and space bar menu-ed options. Master these functions and the work flow will flow.

To manipulate the perspective use the 1, 3 and 7 keys, and you will get top, front, and right views. CTRL key + 1 or 3 or 7 will show you the back face of each of those perspectives. The other numbers have similar functions worth exploring.

CTRL + alt + LeftMB will allow you to zoom in and out. CTRL + Shift + LeftMB will allow you to slide the screen like a sliding bar. 
(Sorry for the lame attempt at a joke. Was spoilt be the other guy and blah)

A few minor things I noticed:
There's a portal issue (two missing faces) in the lava near the lower SNG.
Some misaligned textures: lava hole (Quad), blue light trims. It would look better if the textures on the 45� faces were scaled to 0.75, though it would probably mean too much additional work to make their edges fit with the adjacent ones.
There's a hollow space under the upper RL.
Not really necessary, but what about sky textures behind the teleporters to remove bullets?
I like the way the Quad is placed, it's much better than before - reduces the chances of permanent Quad rape. 
Beta-testers Wanted 
just about gotten this badbwoi to the beta stage and could use a couple of volunteers to steer it in the right direction. only needs a fullvis (which i'm gonna do tonight)

(as you can probably tell from the screenies it doesn't follow the original too religiously, but the base layout is there) 
Mail Is In The Post 
Ijed Im working on yours 
This Board Needs An Edit Function 
i was going to add... if anyone fancies volunteering then let me know what email address to post it to. 
I Am In 
a bit Insomnia.

Sorry, but can't test.

Look forward to the map though. 
oh god yeah. The original is one of my favourite original maps, and that looks amazing.

Not testing though :) 
click my nick (!) 
looks fantastic! 
Looking Forward To That RJ 
I will test - my listed e-mail address is the one to use. 
are you critiquing my texture alignment under the lava? 
Greet Map Lunaran 
rj, those shots look pretty bad ass :) i like your use of trim and the semi-circlular room (top right shot) looks sweet 
fankoo people :D

jago, sielwolf, lardarse.. email on its way :-) 
Received, Preparing Reply Now 
Btw, you'll need DarkPlace to view my firstrun demo. Hope that isn't too much of a problem. 
Lovin' the look of that rj! Should be interesting to compare to the original :)

Some more of my UT3 DM map 
Yes, it's a place players can and do reach. I meant some of the rivets on the slanted edge of the hole. 
I Have 
no clue what I am doing whatsoever: 
I See 
That red brick wall is the staple. 
Hey, looks like a start. To something. :) 
Run with it. If nobody ever did nothing would ever get done. 
New Qonquer Arena - Beta 
This probably won't see the light of day because I have apparently broken the Quake engine in some way. r_speeds are high (so don't use the software renderer!) and it's just -- slow.

I think there's either too much detail or I'm not allowed to use func_doors of this size. ANYWAY, download it if you want to take a look at what I've been hacking on for the last little bit:

Doom Arena

It's textured in Doom2 textures just to prove what a huge hypocrite I am.

Oh and if you don't have Qonquer, grab it here:

Again, this currently runs very slowly and I'm not sure that I'm going to finish it but I thought I'd give you guys a peek anyway.

I've always wanted to do a Qonquer level along these lines. Like a larger structure that slowly unfolds. I also thought the zombie minions were neat. Not all that effective as fighters but the fact that they keep getting up kicks ass. 
Finish it ! The way the Doom textures are used and how it unfolds is totally kick ass. Runs a bit sluggish as you mentioned, but it's very playable.

Though it would be nice to have one box of rockets and more cells, these are needed around wave 15 where the multiple Shambler spawns kick in.

The rocket launsher wouldn't seem out of place either with the heavy monsters; it'd be also easily possible to rocketjump to the rafters - collecting the ammo and admiring the infights is fun :)

The detail on the floor is nice, but I hanged a few times there, and some more expansion on the side with the many teles would be great. Cool map. 
forgot to say: the Zombies are funny for 5 min or so, but useless. What about Tarbabies as minions, they could cause alot of fun chaos, space is there. 
DoomArena Beta 
1. No slowdown whatsoever (in AGLQuake)

2. Theme and texture is nice. Wasn't sure if D2 textures would work but it's a pretty good look.

3. Unfolding arena is great, works very well.

4. Zombies are interesting. Pretty useful for keeping monsters occupied and preventing further spawns.

5. Difficulty level takes a huge jump on wave 16 with the multiple Shamblers.

6. Finish it. 
the wierd wooden boxes that come down from the ceiling around wave 12 or something. bugged out because it was crushing one of the zombies and since they're invulnerable... well... 
Those Textures! 
They are from Doom? That's immoral, unethical, illegal and did you ask id Software for permission?

I really don't care and think it looks lovely. Just could not resist posting this. 
I didn't read what you wrote fully. (Damn!) Sorry. 

hl2, sorry :\ would have prefered d3 because of far superior scripting and easier custom model importing, but lack of lightmaps is incredibly annoying. and no water... wtf. o_o

so anyway, i had this idea... why not build a true post-apocalyptic map. a map with no gameplay, and no reason other than to explore... ideally, i'd make nearly every building (except i guess key vis blockers) enterable with a lot of detail in all the rooms, and you could just go in and look and take in the deserted atmosphere.

dunno if it would really be well liked though. i'm sort of nuts about post-ap stuff. to me, the thought of moving through a completely dead and silent city is awesome but i guess to a normal player it would be boring.

any opinions? :P 
Not sure about how succeful a map can be with NO gameplay. Exploration is usually fun because there is a sense that you might discover something, and if there's nothing to discover, it gets old.

Simply dropping a bunch of collectible items would give people something to search for, and then you could say "2/50 collected" or something on the HUD.

Another idea is to put some danger into it, so there is tension as you're exploring. Maybe some ambushes or death traps or something, so you explore a bit more carefully. 
It Wouldn't Hurt 
to drop a few zombies or antlions in surely?
Good idea though, I do enjoy exploring post-ap things myself, I guess thats why I enjoyed stalker so much. But put something in there to find, as Metl said, its half the fun! :) 

Hah, that's funny about the tar babies because I ALMOST used them as the minions. I'll give that a shot for the next version.


Hadn't considered that about the zombies getting crushed! That should alleviate itself once I change the minion type...


Well, it seems to be a likable map so I'll give it a shot and try to finish it up. Thanks all! 

I think your idea is cool and I've had the idea in the back of my head for years that I would LOVE an Oblivion-like world to simply explore. It would be amazing and you could just look around without real fear of dying (beyond springing traps or falling to your death or something similar).

I would still give the player a narrative though. Maybe they've gone back to their city of birth to find traces of what happened to their family after the Combine occupation or what-have-you. Give them a reason to explore. 
Qonquer Gameplay 
I wonder what could be done to make the later waves in a map more playable/survivable.

Saving is good, but makes no difference if you're surrounded by 6 Shamblers, and then you get 8 of them in the next wave.

Maybe some kind of Powerup spawn system, like, starting with a certain wave a PU would spawn everytime player health reaches 25 (on the other end of the map even).

Another one is to use the minions as Medics ? 
Thanks For The Suggestions 
i'll try to work in some traditional gameplay things.

i was thinking maybe some kind of puzzles and item collection, but they would have to have a good reason to be there, not just like ravenholm's puzzles which were obviously put there.

the lack of any kind of gui scripting like d3's is going to limit what can be done though, and the generic scripting of hl2 isn't as crappy as i though, just very lame and bulky to use. i love d3 for being able to script anything directly into pseudo c++ code and not having to play games with weird ass helper entities. 
Saving is good, but makes no difference if you're surrounded by 6 Shamblers, and then you get 8 of them in the next wave.

One obvious solution would be to be surrounded by one Shambler. Then in the next wave, 2 Shamblers. Then 3 Shamblers and so on and so forth.

Having said that, I like both the power-up and medic ideas, both could give interesting tactical gameplay. 
One obvious solution would be to be surrounded by one Shambler.

Is that like the sound of one hand clapping? 
More Like A Big Happy Shambler Cuddle. 
All warm and fuzzy... 
It could work but you'd really have to fill the place with tons of detail that suggest a narrative. So it could be a little bit of a detective story where you try to piece together what the city was like pre-apocalypse... 
All warm and fuzzy... and electricky and bitey? 
Claw-e as well. 
I really dig the post-apocalyptic goal you have. To me, the idea is to make the player morose and empty inside once the level is finished. 
To me, the idea is to make the player morose and empty inside once the level is finished.

What if they were like that when they started? 
Quake Induced Suicide 
Morose And Empty Inside 
What if they were like that when they started?

Well they can seek understanding and moral support here: 
Trying To Nail Down A Theme 
The YZ view looks pretty good - very fresh use of turquoise mesh wireframe - but I'm not really feelin the XZ view. Will the final map have a windows taskbar in it? 
What Is Wrong With You Lun? 
To offer a more constructive criticism: Jago, digging the trendy media player running in the background, and mad props for showing an IRC client chillaxing in the taskbar there. Could do with a few more Firefox windows open maybe. But seriously, what's with the hum-drum desktop theme? Too standard, too "functional", needs more transparency - I'm just not really feelin' it, know what I'm saying? Btw what's that cool-lookin app thingy you got there in the foreground is it 3D-Maxi or Maia or something? 
I Think It's Otherwise Fine 
but the lightbulbs floating in mid-air are slightly too cartoony.

There's that sudden small "bridge" in the walkway. Put a mass of cables and tubes below it so it is there for a reason.

Those lightbuilds are err, indicators of the location of the light entities/actors, they don't show up in-game. 
Jago: I suggest building with additive brushes you subtract out of, rather than a subtractive map. There's little fundimental differance, subtractive maps just come with an additive brush preplaced that is the size of the world, but if you were to even to set up streaming levels, those preplaced additives will get in the way.

Otherwise, not much to comment on, just glad to see someone here making some UT3 stuff. Get that theme nailed down and start jamming models together.

Also, quit using slow viewport move speed (blue buttons on the right side over the viewports), god I hate whoever made that default. I blame Willem. 
Yeah, it's sort of a legacy thing. Just change it. It saves it in your INI file so you're good to go... 
It actually stems from the early days when maps were smaller. The middle camera speed was FAST back in the UT99 days. These days it's slow because maps have gotten much larger... 
Yeah, until a new build comes along, or some rogue programmer updates the INI :( 
love that idea; you could easily build in a story like 'you crashed your plane and now you need to find a way to get it working aagin' or something similar. 
What game are you thinking of modding?

I know you say traditional mechanics, but for some reason I'm thinking of Portal . . . 
Right Now 
i'm working with hl2 (up to ep2). i would have prefered working in d3, both because it's more powerful and i'm more familiar with it, but it has a few major shortfalls that would totally ruin the type of map i have in mind.

when i said traditional, i meant i'd try to add in a bit of combat too, but i'll try to keep that too a minimum since hl2 monster set is so limited. 
Lua is a pain in the nuts ;) 
I thought LUA rocks. A simple straightforward scripting language with no gimmicks. 
That's True 
But most scripting forms are and Lua has case sensitive format, with alot of stuff hardwired to caps or not.

We use Lua now because it's cheaper in runtime than our old scripting system, but it generally takes alot more messing around in order to use.

Lua isn't especially fantastic, but it is universal. Kind of like windows OS. 
It's more for programmers than level designers. 
i fuck you 
i fuck you 
i fuck you 
i fuck you 
i fuck you 
Thanks a lot for this great moment of sex :P 
Now we're fucked. 
never managed to add a post without logging in.
how do they do it, I mean, spamming without logging in?
Do I have to live in the US for that?

back on toppic, my map. I tried two new monsters, bones and granito. It works well but I get the feeling I learned to much to apreciate it.
I see too many texture mislignments, played the map over and over searching the game flow.

The funny feeling of seeing through Quake's magic left my feeling of fascination.
But alright, I don't have to release a map, maybe just squeeze it for a while like a bunch of cherries, forcing it into wine until I find back my first opinion. 
Don't want to pour cold water water on the thing but shots 2+3 look great, with 1 seeming to be something else entirely. Labyrinthian, but without the detailing present in the second two shots.

Maybe add some trims to that area(s). 
First shot has interesting architecture but needs texture variation. As for the others, I recommend changing the texture of the rails to something without rivets. Two different water textures ? 
hhhmmmm I concur with ijed and negke, and I add it looks tasty: go map ! 
for your advice!

I must admit I have the feeling it's an example of style-breach. The first pix is a medieval style while the other two are a neat present of a nowadays town.

Point is the bsp has reached 7.2Mb and I can't do a thing to it. I'll have to break it up which I don't like or make the best of it as it is now.

Maybe someone is willing to make quick runthrough, it could help me getting a fresh look? 
i love the look of the architecture. there are some bits where the walls, floors and ceilings are all in the same texture though, i would consider changing them (the floors & ceilings, it works well on the walls) 
Point is the bsp has reached 7.2Mb and I can't do a thing to it

Well, it is indeed very big... but you can handle it using aguirRe's enhanced engine: my current project (not yet finished) is resulting in a bsp of almost 11.5MB... you just need time for compilation, and lot of luck to avoid troubles like HOMs, leaks, etc... sometimes it appears "Lord knows why" and disappear as well... weird...

Anyway, I'll look forward to this map, that remind me a fragtown series a little bit ;)

Go map ! 
By requiring specific engines you reduce the "audience" of your map significantly and piss off quite a few people. I wouldn't recommend it. 
By requiring specific engines you reduce the "audience" of your map significantly

- I guess those still playing this game would know how to handle that (it's not like we're talking about a superadvanced engine that requires tons of extra downloads)

- if players can't be arsed to rtfm and follow a simple link - their loss 
I guess those still playing this game would know how to handle that
If you want to limit your audience to people who know that stuff then fine. But take a look around (the forum attracts a lot of clueless newbies for example) and you will see that there are quite a few "invisible" people that will struggle. Hell, many people use glquake and just don't care about a map that does not run in it.

if players can't be arsed to rtfm and follow a simple link - their loss
If that is the mapper's attitude it's ok. I'm just saying. 
People should finally wise up and realize that in order to keep this game alive after 12 years, these kinds of development have to be accepted.
Even the dumbest newbie should be able to get a map to run if the readme explains it properly (optimally also supplying links to the required engines and resources).

If they follow this ridiculous attitude of strictly denying to use anything but their engine of choice or even not wanting to "clutter their Quake dir", then it's indeed their problem.

I could imagine the future of Quake mapping to rely more strongly on new engine features, at least once DP has finally become properly playable. The Doom community demonstrates this perfectly. There are so many maps using ZDoom features and nobody complains about the need to use it. 
Well Yes 
But for that to happen engines must be more polished and working nicely. I mean, what engines are "it"?
The current Fitzquake crashes on those maps.
aguirRe's engine has no full- nor overbrights.
Darkplaces is Darkplaces.

Just look at how awesome ZDoom is. It is no surprise it is being used. Just like ezQuake.

And yes, sure it is their problem. It is totally the decision of the mapper to in- or exclude them (I am saying that without any "weight"). I just wanted to raise awareness of "them" 
Soluce Is... 
.. RTFM...

AFAIK, there's always a txt file in which you'll find all the necesary informations about how to play properly a map... even about engine download link if necessary... so you do not exclude people, you are just warning them about the mandatory use of specifics... though... 
<rj> the texture thing isn't ready yet. I'm only trying to see how far I can go with adding brushes. But your concern is noticed, thanks.

<jpl> It isn't the size but the lightmap thing. I just went to the moment adding a brush would leave me with the max lightmap default. So the map is alright but a bit plain, which I can't avoid by adding ornements.
And I have already scaled up all outside and unused brushes. 
No. Basically. 
If they follow this ridiculous attitude of strictly denying to use anything but their engine of choice

My engine of choice is exactly that - my engine of choice. I choose to use it because I like it, and for various reasons I actively dislike all other alternatives I've tried.

If there is a map that doesn't run in my engine of choice then in all likelihood I'm not going to be motivated to go out of my way to play it.

Some of you guys seem to be missing the key point here. I understand or can learn how to download and configure the various engines available, sure. But why the fuck should I? I don't enjoy playing in most of the asstacular engines available, and unless the map is the next coming of christ then it's simply not worth it for me.

Naturally if the mapper chooses to release a map that requires a particular engine or mod, good luck to him! Obviously that's the mapper's choice, but you do need to understand that this will limit your audience to some extent. If you don't care, fine... great. If you do care, then ensure compatibility with standard engines. 
Warp was this - you couldn't play it in anything but it's own engines.

I never made it for anyone else, really. It was fun to make it. A labour of love. That some people enjoyed playing it was nice to hear.

If it got missed by, let's say, 90% of the Q1 players because it had it's own specific engines then I'm not going to cry.

We're talking about a 12 year old game - having anyone interested in your map is a bonus. 
JPL, Ijed, Orl, Digs, Spy, Me..... 
I love us all!!! (and AgiurRe)

Someone should port AGLQuake to Mac/OSX, just to prevent lengthy flame wars! Willem?

(This is a genuine suggestion, we all know where we stand on this issue, I'm not trying to instigate another riot...) 
Sleepwalkr is a better choice for that kind of a job. I'm just a tools schlub. 
I'm creating a racing map for Quake Wars. There will be 2 versions, one for the wheels of war mod and a stand alone level. Its nearly finished so hopefully beta it soon.

more pics on my blog. 
the 2nd shot reminds me of a part from san andreas! :)

looks great though. it looks like a cool place to drive in :) 
More Randomness 
I like it! Looks like you're making some good progress with the editor Jago :) Stick with it! 

Perhaps a qexpo release if I pull my finger out :) 
some of those unfinished maps look really good. Finish them off! 
All Your 
base are belong to DaZ 
I am calling your bluff - those are the only rooms you've built! Prove me wrong. 
cool Daz you invested already to much time on it _;) please finish it!!! 
Lun will back my up, I hit max visleafs when I compiled the other day, so either those rooms are way overdetailed or there is more :) 
You Said That's Because The Map Leaked 
you sealed it and the error didn't go away? 
Glad to see you're investing more time. Still looks rad. 
neg|ke or anyone need more maya textures!!! any idear?

i�m using hexen2 and rogue wads 
you should use hertetic2 texes 
thks, i will see ;) 
Not Finished 
Just a small shot of my current project: this should be the end area, and I still need to finish the central power plant.

Lightning are not finished as well ;)

Any comments ? 
JPL - Good to see this one still going strong!

I think the area you have shown could benefit from a few sourced lights inside the silo. Perhaps a a little more trim here and there....?

Looks Exciting. 
I think you need a more subdued lava texture though. The repetition in that one sticks out like a sore thumb. 
It definitely needs more variation in the texturing, big grey walls = bad usually, perhaps if you had a very varying shades of grey and built out some geometry with the different shades it would look cool (kinda like a geocomp map).

Lava has been mentioned but you can see the square repetition a mile away :) Perhaps try scaling the texture up a lot or find something new :)

I was gonna comment on lighting but I see its not finished yet :) Looks promising though! 
Far Concern 
Took some time before I saw the tin rail carried a kind of liftcage. It's rather small in scale to the other dimensions.
Can't hide the feeling it is rather big for Quake1 attitude, but that's your way of mapping.
I would try some ridges on the long big sides to break them.

Looks promising! 
I'm Happy With It. 
.. for the encouragements ;) I'll try to finish this map before the end of the year :P
It will be Quoth2 based, with 250 monsters in easy (that's my target), there are already 11 secrets, and you will need aguirRe's engine or an enhanced engine to play the map, as I exceeded already max marksurfaces and max visible leafs standard values... shame on me >) 
JPL next time a small episode like id1 :p
not big maps, that�s what i will do before tchak 
Oh well for those who were happy of my quit sorry. :)

But some nice people made think another time people like Spirit, negke, JPL, ricky, ijed, shamby, hrim and sorry for many other i didn�t write :)

that deserve all my efords!

so there it goes one pic with upgrades on tchak

kisses to ladies and hugs to mens

even to CZG that we still don�t know what he is� ;) 
Looks Cool. 
Nuff said. New temple maps, long overdue. 
problem is that is the kind of map that eat loooootssss of time :\ but i will try to aim this year... uf uf uf

i hope... 
Well I Sealed A Bit Off 
I'll try and light it... 
Is That A Rocket Up Your Arse 
Yooo, Trinca! 
So glad you kept this up!!!!

Go, go, goooo! 
Aye Looks Neat 
reminds me of dazsp2 in a way, with the open plan city feel to it, I like :)

I would make it darker though, with more torches and stuff :) 
I think I leave the board, because trinca doesn't know me anymore 
dont cry madfox you in holland right?


There We Go Again 
isn't the dopefish enough for you?

I thought the land of Cervantes had better intents, Sancho. 
Sancho is spanish... i�m NOT FUCKING SPANISH!!! 
But They Are Fucking You? 
tchak yo! 
[Prefab] [Q2] [Quark] X-Com UFO Skyranger 
This isn't an upcoming project, but I didn't think it needed its own thread.

I've been playing alot lately so it's had time to wiggle into my brain :-*
I'm very pleased how the wings turned out ;D.



- Mike 
Er.... Yeah! 
Sorry, I'm New 
Does Anyone Else 
only get a file-save dialog instead of actually seeing any of those images in-browser? 
ugh just save and open them. 
looks more like a regular aircraft than a badass strogg freighter. Nice work though, but next time please decorate your screenies with some nice red bow for our more demanding customers. Thank you. 
what Sielwolf (and Scampie) said, the wings could look a bit more massive and spaceship-like to match the Quake 2 theme.

Unless you want it to look like aeroplanes, in which case you succeeded. :-) but Strogg tend to use spaceships. Those typically look more massive than planes.

One of the Citizen Abel maps has a cool starship, I think. The Reckoning also has a space fighter, which you escape in at the very end.

I think Ground Zero also has a space fighter, in the Hangar/Anti-aircraft cannon unit.

Don't stop, Quake 2 needs mappers! 
That's hardly a Strogg freighter. 
That's hardly a Strogg anything. It's a personnel transport ship from "X-Com: UFO". It's just something I felt like making in QuArK :).

- Mike 
Which is quite apperent as its X-Com counterpart is displayed right next to it. Is it for a X-Com Q2 mod? Might be something for pope and bambuz. 
Well, there is a redone version of X-Com using the Quake 2 engine already. I tried making an open field like one of the levels but it never VIS'd. Though I do have notes on how it could work using default Quake2 (No mod).

- Mike 
There's no need to sign your posts, the board already let's us know who posted.

Hey Scamp 
You ain't doing it right.

- Mike 
Is "-Mike" The New "Bees"? 
something to think about

- Mike 
FMB_BDG Probably The Final Re-Resurection Of The End Maybe 
Mike Hamwood 
the brick texture you're using in most of those shots is a little too intense. 
look real nice zomggg this will be a hard bitch to fuck :)= 
Morning Woodham 
I like the rockwork in the third shot. Good to see you're trying to finish the map after all. 
Motherfucker yeah.

I had an idea you were going to do the sequel Mike, good going.

Really looking forward to this. 
looking forward to this one for sure.

Now I don't want to sound demanding, but it'd be great if the gameplay would match the looks: dark/evil/hard etc. meaning the first part had far too much ammo, which took off some of the mood for me. 
He's Back! 
*does the happy Quake dance* 
I Don't Think Mike Ever Went Away 
but he does get too low key at times for those of us who think of him as the cool, older brother the func board. Wicked nice pics, too. 
Oh, And That Lava Is Fantastic! 
Yeah Looks Good. 
With Lun 
on the brick texture, stands out too much. 
It's Funny 
to see all the effort people put into making Quake 1 look awesome, and yet the gun is still sticking out of your chest.. :P 
I think the guns actually come out of the Quake guy's mouth, due to them being so close to his eyes and you have to only point the guns where ever you look. 
Don't You Change The View Weapons! 
Don't try to make quake look any "better" or you'll have to pry the viewmodel out of my cold dead mouth. 
I Must Admit 
I quite like having a shotgun sticking out of my mouth.... 
A Favor 
< ctchtchhcg> someone go post a guns == dicks joke here: 
Mike Woodham 
The end of the first map was completely tantalizing and I was really hoping you'd do map two - in fact I was actually lamenting the fact that I'd never see it just last week - and here's a bunch of new shots. AWESOME. You've really mastered forcing Quake to do curvy terrain, not to mention huge maps, technically you're one of the best Quake mappers and you've always had the ability to set up and efficiently link dramatic setpieces. Very much anticipating the map. 
What I Like About Mike... 
...he's the quiet workhorse of Quake mapping. You don't seem him much, don't hear him much, and pretty much every map is supposed to be his last, but he's still there, covertly beavering away on something that will appear at some point when you least expect it.

*raises glass*

P.S. All you other mappers are cool too of course, well the ones who release stuff anyway ;) 
ye shamby but i�m the most sexy and cool!!!

P.s-> normal i�m Portuguese... 
Yeah But Trinca 
You aren't in the same league.. I mean, when was the last time you did any covert beavering. 
Water In UT3 
Does anyone have any idea how to make the water make visual splashes when you jump into it in UT3? I have a working UTWaterZone and it makes a proper splashy sound when I enter it, I also have a sheet-brush with the water texture, but quite obviously since they are separate entities, entering the UTWaterZone does nothing to the sheet-brush surface.

How do I make a visual splash effect? 
i start to be a lover, now i love everyone even nasty czg :)

/me wants peace and love!!!

/me want to finish tchak and make some in here to reconize that my mapping skills are not as bad as some in here think!!!

god bless you all 
Is Trinca Junior behaving a bit better at the moment then?? ;)

P.S. I don't think your mapping skills are bad, your maps are good and I've definitely enjoyed playing them. 
That was supposed to go into Mapping Help 
Dear God 
I really wish I did not think about the ambiguity of Shambler's post.

Anyways, now to make this not yet another "chatting on a message board" post:
Are there any Quake maps that feature nice visual illusions/tricks? I mean stuff like geometry that looks like something else if look at from a certain angle (not simply "hallway hidden with shadows" stuff)?

You could make a level that looks innocent, but if you look from a secret place it spells "you like sheep".

Like that art thing where there are stripes in a room and from a certain angle you see geometric forms from them (can't be arsed to search the links). 
In The UK On TV Channel 4 
they have an advertisement scheme which does that with all sorts of stuff - coastal rock formatons, cityscapes, ornamental gardens, industrial areas and stuff like that. As the camera moves you see a "4" appear from the stuff in the shot, then dissappear again as the camera nangle shifts...

this link ^^ the first clip is a good example, the next two aren't but the rest after that are....

this one ^^ is cool! Although you can only see the "4" for a couple of seconds

...ahh, you get the idea. There are loads of these.... 
go map! 
You're playing 4od, the best place to play the custom maps you want, on demand.

Part of me does intuitionally revulse at the idea of art/creativity inspired by advertising gimmicks... 
Cs_starling Public Beta 01

Cubemaps might be fucked, lighting might be fucked, the whole damn map is most probably fucked.

If there is no func_ cs:s server running custom maps, I might be able to host something for us to playtest maps on. Might.

Comments are unwelcome, expected, probable, and will of course go ignored. 
I Think There Was A Map Called The Fly 
by markus klar. 
I Could Have Almost Made It 
immortality would have not been so difficult to adjust to, the chasm of time would have been a cinch if not for bees, markus klar fly references and Sunday Afternoons, things that I refer to as the long dark tea time of the soul. 
You mean like in Doom, where e3m2, The Slough of Despair, is actually in the shape of a hand?

The Fly is the only one I can really think of for Quake, although nowadays with the ability to rotate textures and keep them aligned (lol the sideways section must have been a bitch for him), it'd be much easier to do.

One time I was gonna make a Heretic 2 SP map, in my usual Arabian theme, and have the whole map be the shape of the heretic sign, that the player would see when he exited, and flew above the city (it'd be a spacemap) 
I Mean (for Example) Stuff Like This
But actually pointing at something. It's a load of work making it point properly.

Maps whose overall shape is something are nothing "special" for the player (except for rpgsp1 of course). 
I call it the Brunch of eternal misery.

Now there's a speedmapping theme. 
Oh Yeah, 
Wrath, if you don't want or care about comments, why are you posting on a messageboard? 
Are you retarded?

I'm not asking to be mean, or to imply anything, I just think it would be good to know for future reference.

Are you an intellectual infant? Are you slow-witted? Have you gone soft in the head of late or were you born such? 
I Was Dropped As A Child. 
Fuck you. 
He Doesn't 
care about comments because he doesn't understand them.

Also Wrath, some screenshots would be spiffing, especially as Func_ doesn't have a huge CS:S following and therefore you'll have to make an extra effort to get anybody interested.

Aside from the fact that I do happen to like CS:S, absolutely nothing you've posted has enticed me towards your project. Shame. 
"especially as Func_ doesn't have a huge CS:S"

roulfff if we got any someone shoot the bastard for playing faget games... 
What kind of wankers play CS anyways... 
Aside from the fact that I do happen to like CS:S, absolutely nothing you've posted has enticed me towards your project. Shame.
Yeah, I was so looking forward to your specific input.

Screens are at 
you french sausage-rider, what say you get yourself unfucked post haste and join the program?

Anyway, I'm the kind of wanker who play cs:s. Or rather, we play it on our lan-meets. So it was either a cs:s map or a q3ctf, and the q3 editors all suck more than shambler used to do.

You know, when he still had most of his teeth and only whored himself out for money. 
I Was Dropped As A Child.

Although not from a great enough height.

Are you telling me that you didn't understand what I meant in my original post or are you just trolling for a fight? 
My point was that if you want feedback, the normal way to go about it is not be a cunt.

But hey, maybe your method will work as well. 
It'll Fail 
because there seems to be a func_wide aversion to cs:s. Fine. Be that way. See if I care. Fuck all of you forever. 
wrath is back. 
Func - 1 Wrath - 0 
...and the Quest for the Holy Crate continues. 
What The Fuck Id CS:S?!?!!?! 
forgive me bt I dont know...

btw those screenshots looked cool (eh? megaman)
nice map.... 
You have to wait for the entire round to end before you respawn? The fuck? For that reason alone I have never played and will never play camperstrike.

p.s. screenshots look good, ignoring the vaguely homo-erotic man-on-man action that seems to be taking place with the human figures inside them. 
I want to kill you guys on q1 DM. even if its that DM Q1 level which is METAL with the lava and the RL....

I'm completely in=experienced at doing it with Q1

tell me what to do and I will do it. 
Washing The Map 
Run my map through deathmatchmaker to fit all textures again. Then the map got broke because of it's size. Imported it in Qoole, which was the only one that would import it.

All lights were damaged, and all the funcs got a delay=1, even the lights. Now i"m back on trace, at least all textures fit. Now I exceeded the lightmaps again.

What is this nasty habbit of recompiling a brush with just a thin 1 size brush around it?
Can't see the meaning of an empty brush as that it consumes massive lightmaps! 
Deathmatch Maker is an absolutely terrible editor. I'd avoid it at all costs.

And to the CS:S haters: Sorry it's not Quake and sorry it's so popular everywhere else, but it is still quite a fun game. 
Im serious

I dont know what CS:S is.

Cascading Style Sheets?

Counterstrike. I suppose. That's meant to be a well popular game isn't it!!! Hehe - never played it... 
Counter Strike: Source 
But yeh, you've got the right idea.

Give it a shot if you get the chance, it's a fun way to while away some spare time. Provided you find a good server -- a lot of them get trolled by people like Wrath. 
the second shot looks nice, but the castle is only one texture. Some variation would look much better (wooden trims, metal buttresses...).

Looking forward to play. 
Give it a shot if you get the chance, it's a fun way to while away some spare time.

I'd rather watch paint dry tbh. 
Nice that it's got lotsa different styles and colors like in real world. 
get quakeworld.

Nquake is a good package for beginners:

Ezquake is the name of the quakeworld client.

Then when you have quakeworld go to, find a uk server from the list, copy its ip address, then open up ezquake, type "connect ipAddressHere" and you're there.

Or that's one way to do it. 
I Mean 
ezquake is the client provided in the nquake package. 
you can paste to qw console with ctrl-v 
Thanks For The Tips 
Trinca just blew me all over Quakeworld
Aerowalk, dm2 and dm6. Heh - was fun
ezQuake is very easy to use.....
now I know how, I intend to try and kill you ALLL!!!!!!! 
Map It To The Wall 
texfish: I use DDM because it instantly retreats my textures back on grid. I never noticed texmislignments.It also stamps all my brushes back to integers which makes it easier to find the "sick" brush. And despite of all other errors, like crazy broken patterns as it was winqbsp, it never returns with HOM's.

Sielwolf:The original map was at the same max lightmaps, and although I compiled it as good as I could, it caught Hom's and leaks (aargh).
reason I tried this rather stupid way of converting the map to compare the right parts.
Point is I always need to stuff things up when I ain't got brushes left. 
I'd Recommend Worldcraft 
if texture alignment is your main problem. I've never come across a more user friendly texture system. It won't just do it all for you, but to be honest I can't understand why you'd want to hand control of texture alignment over to the software anyway. 
Worldcraft 3.3 
Select all brushes => select "texture application mode" => click on "fit" or "bottom left" or "center" => "Voila!!" 
Quark's texture tools are amazing too. If only the thing would not be so slow. 
I second that, QuArK has modern texture tools and the possibility to set the texture scale, rotation... manually like in bsp. 
Why do you mappers not like GTKRadiant? 
is difficult to break in to. I've had it installed for years, but every time I open it up I just find myself questioning whether it's worth finding my way around it. It's not very straightforward for beginners. 
GTKRadiant = pain in the ass to start!
Quark = pretty easy to start... 
GTKRadiant, bsp, ogrier are very similar in my opinion. Once you learnd one it is not that difficult to learn another of these.

QuArK is completely different 
Never leave us, wrath. 
Tex Mislignments 
I'm just mapping brush for brush, so it is evidently I break up in a total texture mess. I never noticed untill someone made me aware.
Even now i find it frustrating to spend houres matching all those creepy lines.
I only used this DMM because it also returns a map without HOM's or leaks. At least that's a positive thing of the programm. I can throw away all garbage and keep the the good part.

I tried worldscraft to see if it has a easier way to convert them,
thanks for the tip.

I'm so convienent with Quark that other editors always make me wonder how to use the buttons.
I tried NewBsp but I couldn't import maps, only make them.
QRadiant made me search for houres to even start.
I know, they're good editors, only I am a impatient manual reader. 
Also there are two boxes "to world" and "to face".

Select all brushes with messed up textures


Press texture alignment button


Tick box "to world" and set scale 1 and 1, also alignment 0 and 0, then ENTER

you can select textures by clicking the 3D window (yeah!), [shift] + select lots of textures!!

then quick button - bottom, top, left, right, center, fit. 
in Worldcraft 3.3, not 1.6. Also move, rotate brushes and the texture NEVER goes wrong. Texture lock is perfect. 
just finding my WorlCraft versions.
Aargh, why did I never got the official version.

it's like with Qoole, I can download all the updates but they all go wrong on 300 brushes limit version. 
Yet More Randomness 
1.5 works, but 3.3 only install the halflife version. So my tex is still offline. 
OK, Solutiion:

install Worldcraft 3.3 to "c:\program files\woldcraft\" (default)

if you put it anywhere else this wont work

install quakeadapter, linked to above

your textures must go in "c:\program files\worldcraft\textures"

it will now convert any textures in this folder everytime you startup Worldcraft, all ready to use... 
Aguire's TxQbsp.exe will work with the converted half-life textures.

in Worldcraft, click tools => options => build programs to see the set up for build programs.

F9 is the button to compile and run, but you can use a command prompt.

"csg" is set to "nomapversion.exe"

what this does is remove Half-Life KEY "mapversion" "220" from .map file.

this can be also removed in a text editor but its a non-critical error. 
I Concur; WC3.3 Is Very Powerful 
it's worth the trouble to get it working. 
Dust In The Air 
Here is my attempt to create another theme not normally seen in Quake. A desert theme complete with cacti, buffalo skulls, and a saloon.

This map is designed to be played with midair mode, a mod where the object is to launch the player off the ground using only rockets, and then blasting him while in the air.

This map is also practice of my mapping skills, and to see just how precise txqbsp is. Many of the small details in the map like the cacti and skulls are off grid, and txqbsp does a nice job and putting them all together.

Be forewarned though, if your computer isn't equivalent to that of a rocket engine, you won't have stable fps. Small as it is, this map is very heavy on framerate, especially when looking down from the sky.

But again, its just my attempt to try something different. I doubt it will get any gameplay because of the performance drop, but it's nice to look at.


Download with .map and .wad included: 
ORL u sent me the map and i�m sorry becouse i didn�t saw it at the right time!


i think map is pretty cool but the upper part should be remove!!! midair dont supose to have a place to rest up...

second thing! the walls of canion should also be 100% vertical they could have the curves u�ve done but noclip brushes so the player can some stright down and not rest in walls!!!

anyway is a cool map i like the theme a lot!

now go fix those things and people will play it for sure becouse if pretty nice!

ops forget to say :) if this version is diferent from te last u sent me i�m sorry becouse i might wrote some stuff bad... but i will see again properly today if i have time! 
Oooh, desert theme. Wasn't there a Q3SP mod with a similar setting?

(Go on, 'how dare you mock my inability to finish projects' and quit, go go go ;) 
I Think It Was Called 
Coriolis Dune


heh heh

Heh heh.

Gotta love the fact Lun's just a joke these days...

Go on, quit >_> 
Be Nice To Lun 
I like him now. He's consistent and honest. And his maps and textures are really cool.

ORL - That looks fucking cool. It would make a cool part of an episode, say if you went through a base map and the slipgate at the end was malfunctioning. Then all of a sudden


You fall from the sky and land in the middle of a desert. That would be a cool moment. The cactuses and buildings look really well done. 
Cool Cool Cool Cool. 
I need a new word 
Not Taking That Bait 
because I'm quite confident in what I've been working on this month. 
Are you implying that if we catch you on a bad day we can make you quit? :Awesome face:

What you been doing anyway? 
It's Happened Before 
I just didn't give anyone the satisfaction of a fiery last post.

I've been working on lunsp2. 
GrindEntity: How's your new map coming along? 

You're tripping, I don't map. Like I said in the Mystic Gemini thread, I spend more time in photoshop these days. But if you mean how's my latest commission coming along, it's fine thank you, I've got the concept/art finalised and am now abstracting it into various horribly corporate mediums (I'm such a hack).

And I think Grintity is probably the best portmanteau tbh.

Sweet news Lun, don't let the evile last 5% stop a release plix :) 
RickyT #2007 Thanks for the link! 
when I lie in moon eclipses
patiently watching sun's wink
reflecting on her moon shape whispers
that duke3 moon jet laggers me kink! 
I Ment 
why are those links such a shrink. 
there once was a mapper named madfox
whose maps were all leaky and badbox
his posts make no sense
a masterpiece which you whom
the twinge comes to get follows, arranges screenshots of places and or accurately completes it from the order as people, kindly there is entrusting 
I comprehend the feeling of rime you reply and won't argue the reason why you (as always)want to intrude me, as I still need a dictionary to understand what YOU mean..., but

I can't see why you turned on the fourth sentence. I won't call you a Buthead for you explained well my reaction when you piss me off. Good article from IRC. 
thanks for the texture help in Qmle. 
I do like you.

coincidentally, where is that papercraft program again? 
Rolling On My Ass 
coincidentally, where is that papercraft program again?

Seriously, I had to go get a cough drop for my throat after laughing at that one. 
When I was trying to construckt an Orb base I came to the point I had to work with parts of the model. This for a construcktion scene.

So I reconstruckted the model with brushes, but when I was ready the model needed so many brushes I could only use a few in a small map.

Then I remembered the voidents from wazat, which includes mdl files, so now I'm using parts of the model in facts. They tend to use almost no data. 
I Guess James Cameron Was Right After All, Back In '84. 
This is how the world ends.

It has been...emotional. 
No Fate But What We Make 
since you're back, maybe you should tell us what's happening with the rmx contest. 
Whats that all about? 
A Few Shots 
alright I made a Qexpo booth, and posted some shots of my upcoming projects

There is (what may be) a surprise at the bottom

Not all of the shots are great, I could have posted less shots, but whatever. 
Re: Shots 
arcanum shot2: badass
roman shot 2: badass
roman shot 4: badass

n1! ^_^ 
arcanum, all shots look badass.

others look good but not as good as Arcanum. 
arcanum and roman look great! dunno what else to say other than arcanum and roman look great! cousin roman!

this makes me hate myself for never finishing anything! i need some extreme inspirational text/video to get me into mapping for more than 1/2 hours. 
Awesome! I can't wait for all of them, but especially A ROMAN WILDERNESS OF PAIN. I think I once downloaded your scraps for that aswell (when you put them all on your website) and was gonna do something with them. About an hour in, I changed my mind :D But I loved the theme. 
the scraps! that's why that name sounds familiar! iirc, you seem to have moved away from the extreme red blood + white stone motif... or is that just not in the shots you posted? i loved those scraps. ^_^ 
haha nakashuito, if I can finish stuff that's been unfinished for 9 years anything should be possible - and I am finishing this stuff, these projects will be released this year (except unforgiven).

Re: Roman Wilderness
Pretty much all of the scraps are in the 4 maps in some form or another - the white stone stuff is in map four, the roman shot 4 is the start of map 4, so there's more of that type of stuff in there that isn't shown.

Re: Arcanum
I tried not to show too much - frick I'm retarded, even now I'm rebuilding my maps to a degree (lol) - Arcanum shot 2, shows part of an area that is my favourite area out of all my maps, so I don't want to give it away really. Lighting that area has been a horrible bitch (although I suck at lighting generally, being used to doing maps almost totally set outdoors) 
Fucking shit that looks amazing.
I used to play the roman scraps all the time, so I practically pissed my pants when I saw that you're working on it. Arcanum of course looks badass. I'd like to thank you for being such a fucking workhorse! 
Anyone See Matthias Worch's Qexpo Booth? 
h;s making another map. 
I Like This Guy!

He "plans ahead" the same way I do - I dont! 
Fuck ME!!!

I really hope this guy finishes his map - @The Nightmare@ - bathed in blood baby! 
The Nightmare 
has giant peanuts! (1st screenshot).

just saw arcade quake and it looks funky as hell :) 
Oh The Fullbright 
That's The Worst Map I've Ever Seen 
i thought it looked cool :( 
It Does Look A Bit 
'busy' architecturally. Hard to see what's what. S'pose when they get some lighting in there the contrast will make it easier to pick out relevant details. 
that's a Kona map. 
looks evil :) 
if all you have to contribute is trolling then stop posting on this board. 
Reminds Me Of 
Grindmill - which always felt like it a should have been a q1 map ;) 
Kona's Maps 
Were among the first usermade maps I played and I just thought I want to make maps too.

Can't wait to play that map ;) 
that's a Kona map.

Pretty much. 3rd shot looks particularly kewl tho.

And kekeke@Lun 
Hang on...

I'm confused, is that now a map in progress or are you just duplicating the scraps screenshot from the QExpo thread? 
nah i want to finish it, one day. might change the textures though. 
well its not exactly anything to get excited about atm:

Im going to South Africa for three weeks on the 15th. I honestly dont think I will have any gameplay in place at that time, although when I get back it may be fairly imminent! :P

still this is the first map of the episode. or atleast the first one I will have made for it..... 
Re: Arcade Quake 
Is it done by the same people who made Target Quake? 
Vague, wireframe editor shots really aren't very imformative, or let us offer any critism of the map Ricky. Not really exciting. 
I Know Scampie, I Know... 
I just didnt want you guys to think I wasnt busy! Atleast you can see roughly how much I have dont since 'RMX :P 
Trying Skyboxes 
Your doom1map1 is coming along pretty well. 
yeah but i hope you intend on putting a little more detail into those rooms 
you do use visgroups right, just deleted em for this shot? 
Sort Of - Half Correct :P 
I group things all the time, and I used to use coloured visgroups in WC, then hide some when I was working on a specific part, but I prefer just to have all of the lines in the 2D windows white, and I dont bother hiding anything anymore.
My vis-"blocking" is a lot better than it was :) 
I Never Use 
visgroups either, but I think I'd need to learn to before building anything that complex! 
Opinion Please. 
Which shot appeals to you more, and why?

In four hundred words or less. Please include references and a bibliography. 
Because it has warmer colours. Like 0.0001%. 
Because it doesn't have warmer [or more uriney] colours. 
Because I don't like yellow taint on B 
That's a really fucking gay custom Quake engine you're using there... 
it doesn't make any goddamn difference at all. "warm" or "cool" is a much bigger decision than "50% saturated" or "60% saturated." quit obsessing over it. 
Thanks everybody!


Yeah. But then again, fuck your mother.


The difference is more than simply ten percent saturation. It's desaturated and then color graded to drain the blue out of the picture. I've also adjusted the levels slightly.

A is completely undoctored, by the way. 
clearly the next-gen solution is to desaturate it and hue-shift everything to brown, so B obviously.

After all, that's what sold the bazillion copies of Gears of War, not the fun visceral combat or anything.

Keep tweakin' those colour levels! 
feels cleaner 
wrath stop mapping for crappy games!!! go make a proper Q1 map :)


ps-> i cant coment on a engine i dont know ;) 
Post Processing 
covers up poor art direction and bad lighting.

Can't coordinate a project well enough to pick colors that match in any given scene? Fix it in post!
Your lighting model (or your lighters) too shitty to make a scene look halfway believable? Fix it in post!
Blew your texture budget so hard the entire scene devolves into visual noise? Fix it in post! 
Are you upset that Aliens: Colonial Marines post processed over your stuff? 
The color difference between shots A and B is less than the color difference between two randomly chosen monitors, so it's pointless to worry about it. 
Trinca, why can you not comment on the aesthetic appeal of two comparative images? Imagine they're actual RL rooms, I assume you can deal with that concept (unless you continually walk into walls in your house because it's the 'wrong engine')

A btw, it looks more realistic, less game-y. But as Lun says, it makes little difference. Either would look good if I hadn't seen the other. 
They Look The Same To Me! :P 
The level looks quite cools though. I like the organic element to it - like it's genuinely a bit fucked up because its a bit old n' stuff. Nice work!
Also: - you must have a massive monitor.... 
Can't coordinate a project well enough to pick colors that match in any given scene? Fix it in post!
Your lighting model (or your lighters) too shitty to make a scene look halfway believable? Fix it in post!
Blew your texture budget so hard the entire scene devolves into visual noise? Fix it in post!

I have no idea who pissed in your cornflakes, but it wasn't me, alright?

There is no project, there is no texture budget. It's just me and hammer, so take a deep breath and suck my cock. 
Lun loves you really. Everyone pissed in his cornflakes. 
Uh Yeah 
I liked B better, looks warmer and more natural. 
I Think He's More Offended By Post Processing 
than he is by Wrath's shot. I guess I can see his point - it's the same theory with minlight. Less colour-diversity I would imagine.

Still; popcorn at the ready!! Sunglasses. Bad Afro haircut. No, wait, thats an Alien Ant-Farm music video..... 
(A Is Better) 
lighting looks better in it. 
B has better contrast but oversaturated colour. 
wrath, they're exactly the same. I can see they're different, but no one in the world will ever know or care when it's in motion.

And if the lighting was a bit nicer with some better contrast and mixture of cool and warm colors, that version would look infinitely better anyway. 
what scampie said... plus that scene is kinda boring.... 
So was your post. I for one want my money back. 
Charges you to read func? 
what game is this? and yes, your monitor is fkn monstrous 
Looks Like Counter-Strike: Source 
If you can call it a game, that is... 
It's counter-strike:source, yes. And my monitor is a 20 inch wide, nothing monstrous. 
Unlike Your... 
Nah, you don't want to scare the ladies. Mine is fascinating and friendly, yet strong and reliable. 
Not As Bad As Worch's Shot:

He must have a bigger monitor! :P
But you know what they say about a man with a big monitor..... 
That is 1600*1200, no? I actually run two 20" wides next to each other for a total of 3360*1050 of screen real estate. So, you know, neener neener.

But you know what they say about a man with a big monitor.....
He needs a powerful graphics card? 
No Worch's Shot Is 1080x1920 
and if we're having a competition
I'm using 3 monitors - a 22" 1680x1050 (or whatever it is) a 19" 1440x900 and a 19" 4:3 1200x1600 :P

And what they say is that he's mprobably compensating for something.....

Editor does look pretty nice. I have to get round to installing it. 
Some Screenies From My New Q4sp Map 
Looks interesting ;) 
ohhh fuck PuLSaR took the wrong side of the force :(

anyway looks nice... now comeback to Quake please :) 
don't worry, i think you'll see my new quake release pretty soon 
Goood !! 
fucking great!!! :) 
q4 - awesome :D

quit with the indoor tech though - try to do some outdoors stuff at least.

just about every single bloody doom3 custom level i've played is the same indoor shite from doom3.

just played the haunted house custom level for serious sam II. now this is a game with HUGE variety in design and themes, and yet this guy went off and created a completely unique theme and setting. this is what the id tech 4 really needs, more diversity.

it's no wonder unreal's engine dominates id's in terms of licensing. 
Outdoors are the things that i really love to make in maps for any game. My q4 map is divided into two sections, the first one is completely indoor and the second one is a mix of indoors and large scaled outdoors 
A Dirty Vis-skin ... 
looks nice pretty isn�t a Q1 map :p 
petty not pretty :\ 
Lighting's A Bit Too Saturated 
for that texture set IMHO.

What is it? Tourney or ffa? 
FFA. It's not intended to be used as a tourney map. 
give me src map, Ill make it into q1sp 
you mean "pity" 
Yes pity.

And for the love of gods, please stop pointing out whenever something isn't for Q1. We know you only play Q1, we don't care. 
metlslime yes thks

nonentity i care... stfu 
So Care Quietly And Stop Shitting In Every Thread 
Shitting is a natural human function we must do, some more than others 
That looks pretty good. Lol @ the German name. It's tempting to do that. 
Care Quietly 
That would be good on a shirt, or a bumper sticker. (Seriously.)

@T.C., that looks really nice,, it's certainly green, isn't it?

Green sky + green light from the sky (I think?) + green weapon markers + green flags + green liquid (I think?), etc.

Maybe at least make the liquid and sky differ, or if it's just the sky light, maybe desaturate it a notch? Or something?

Dunno, maybe it's just me. 
TF2 Map 
looks fucking sexy petty it�s a map for total shit game tf2 :p 


Looks nice, especially shots 2 and 5. Don't play TF2, so don't know how the detail level compares to stock/other custom maps, but some of the walls/buildings look a bit sparse (shot 3 is a good example of this). Possibly more prop use would help. I'm aware that there is a limit to how many aircon fans you can place, but windows/inaccessible fire escapes/crates nailed to the side of a building mebe. Other than that, the general look of the level is nice, good intersection of buildings to create a varied hull/play space. 
Map is far too open, the layout favors scouts and snipers, but doesn't make it fun for them either.

Snipers are powerful only becuase the fog and openness makes any attack angle viable and gives them cover. So either they'll get couter sniped, or it's just shooting fish in a barrel.

Scouts are powerful because all the open area makes it difficult to hit them. But they aren't even going to have fun, as there aren't enough areas of height to jump along or otherwise get advantage.

Most of the other classes are screwed without the choke points, high ground, and tight areas to either fight through or defend.

In my opinion, what needs to be done is to tone down the fog and darkblue light. It is far too hard to see enemies at a distance and tell what team they are. The blue light also gives too much advantage to the BLU team. I'd use a brighter light blue color to still give the 'night time' feel without being overbearing. Fog needs to be thinned quite a bit overall. 
I agree with Scampie on pretty much everything he said. Trinka needs to be quiet while the grownups are talking. And it's good to see people branching out to other games. 
People should use there own nicks and not other�s people nicks...

i dont give a shit about nothing...

wrath i didn�t wrote that...

so peace!

for who is trying to use my nick, get a life... 
Yeah I agree with Scampbell on a bunch of things too. It's very useful feedback.

Scampbell: What exactly do you mean in the first screen shot about moving the spawn up to the doors?

Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. 
I mean cut the room circled, and put the spawn there. The existing doorways from the room cut into the rest of the map and now the exits from the spawn. 
I actually like the circled room, so I might just cut out the regular spawn room and move all the teamspawn there instead. 
Re #4954 
Megaman just linked to that thing i had in mind: 
Anybody working on anything cool? Screen shots, plz! 
A TF2 Map 
I'm working on it. 
BTW, finished your map. Not sure what it's about. I'm in #tf today if you want to stop by. 
I reached three days full vising.

73.80% Elapsed 23h30m, Left 24h16m Total47h46m, 49%.

Nothing happened last two days.

The map plays well, and I'm just below the max clip and vertices.
Only on fast vis, or I'll wait for years. 

I think I see the source of your trouble. Tell me those railings are a func_wall? 
Railings and lamposts are mdl files I added with wazat voident code. 
Then what's taking days upon days of VIS time? Is your computer older maybe? Nothing else in those shots looks particularly VIS unfriendly... 
The map is rather big (8Mb) and fast vis takes no time.
R_speeds are extremely high.
I used no func walls, and hardly vis blokkers. 
Good To See Some Screenies! 
hey madfox nice theme and you've got some nice construction here but the texturing could use a lot of work. if you can't get those big bricks ending in the right place, then i'd use much smaller bricks so you don't notice when they get cut in half. in acrus10.jpg for instance, almost every brick gets cut in half at the edge, which ends up looking sloppy. also things like underneath archways and ceilings don't need to be the same brick texture. the railings i think wood look better in wood too. 
I crawled out of this map construction with my first suceedment of texture alignment. And as it was the first mistake I never saw in mapping
I experience it as a small improvement.

My first goal was to make the map excist without homs or max warnings.
Reason why I had to take advantage of the mdl files.
And as the texture count grows on 72 it still could have some more archivement.

I'm now on a P4 3Ghz and I never had a longer vising count than 8 houres. After boxing the map the vistime just raised dramatical.
And I can't delete that because the map immedeately starts leaking. 
Are you trying to beat the CDA fullvis runtime ? :P
Wide open area needs long time to compile, and regarding the shots, it looks awesome, plenty of details everywhere... You will certainely have to wait for almost the same time before seeing a 100% fullvised map...
Anyway, good luck, be patient, and we all hope to see the release soon..
Keep it up ! 
After boxing the map

are you saying you built a giant box around the entire map to get it to vis? because that would certainly explain why it's taking so long. 
fullvis runtime to beat is 1248 hours... As of today, CDA still wins :) 
Oh yeah, OK, if you can't get it to VIS without boxing that would explain your VIS times. Having the process all of the outside stuff that QBSP would normally cull away will double or triple your VIS times easily. 
I Reckon 
You need to find the leak, MF. Boxing stuff makes baby Jesus cry. 
Ijed Speaks The Truth 
Or Rather 
Ok, But 
'Boxing stuff nails baby Jesus to a wall' doesn't have the same ring to it. 
And on the road the map has crossed was a point where the box wasn't necessary to compile it, but then the max limit was reached and it had many hom's.

but that map ended on a burned out mobo, so make my cahsbox smile. 
Just Because... 
Fern Is Back !!! 
Hey ! Nice shot ! 
Fern Never Leaves... 
"He" is just slow and busy as hell. 
hey, you can take all the time you want as long as you're branching out! it's good to see you've still got your roots in the community! it wood be great if you posted more shots! 
Actually I Should've Posted This One Instead

kind of my take on the "r_speeds be damned" concept (though on a much more subdued scale) 
Abstract Level Preview

Something I'm working on involving custom textures and a sort of abstracted look for a level. This is the general look of the level. I'm keeping the more interesting things to myself for now. 
It Looks Like Piet Mondrian Started Mapping 
pretty cool idea Willem, although now I'm really wondering what the textured version will look like. 
That Reminds Me 
of this doom2 level i was doing a while ago, but never finsihed because i had no ideas. just made because i was bored :) 
Neat, I like that! Could be some cool possibilities there. 
Those shots remind of me of p0rtal :) 
I like the cel-shaded style Willem, reminds of Warsow a bit.

I actually like Fern's Mondrian 'suggestion', possibly add some random primary colour surfaces (ie, keep the majority as white squares with black outline, but replace a few of the white squares with red/blue/yellow/etc (still with black outlines ofc)) 
I'm reserving color for specific purposes. You'll see! It's all part of a plan... 
I was going to say, use color for a purpose, not to just to make the map more colorful. 
Add more rainbows. 
.. where are the sharks ? 
Where Are The Planes? 
How'd They Get The Planes Through That Tiny Door? 
I suppose the door for planes are in the back of the shot... though... 
Remarkable enough there were a lot of people complaining there were no planes in Doom's Hangar.
Now you're worried how to get them out!

I wonder if there's no func_train to make them fly and shoot them out of the air with a trigger_multiple spawning the pilot . 
shoots look cool

They used the secret where the wall lowers and opens to the courtyard with the slime pit/armour in the middle. 
"Charlie 9er, you are cleared for runway 2 over"

"Charlie 9er confirm, opening hangar doors now"

*dozens of attendants begin grunting against the walls until someone finds the trigger* 
Dooming Birds 
are go!

Now I'm obliged to get some doors in. 
awesome takeoff procedure 
Abstract Level 
Looks like my placeholder textures (though mine are coloured). I've been half tempted to actually do a map like that rather than adding "proper" textures, since it does look kinda cool (hey, it worked for Warsow anyway). 
Wasn't There 
A 'The Cube' theme being talked about a while back - lots of func_train rooms. Could fit the texture theme. 
still working on this melee mod. :P

so, just a little intro here:
max health = 500 now
regeneration: 100health + 200health over 12sec
invisibility: monsters can't attack you (for 10sec)
shift: teleport forwards (through monsters or telefragging them) 384 units
bind: make either a fiend or scragg your pet (they get stronger attacks, follow you and attack normal monsters)
damage you take is also split with the minion, although atm that's not very useful since they only attack monsters.

at this point, i have two choices:
1. combat based around hordes emphasizing positioning, crowd control, AoE and maneuvering
2. combat based around 1 or 2 monsters emphasizing debuffing, good footwork, cover and spell/energy conservation.

pets work for either large or small group combat. for example fiends hit multiple targets, scrags poison huge groups.

testing out horde combat atm, even without any AoE attacks. just lots of moving around, scrambling for cover as well as trying to stagger cooldown use so you always have a 'bailout' available.

the idea i'm going for is something like diablo where you're given a framework of spells/abilities and then thrown in a situation where you need to work out how best to use said spells/abilities. ie: this test map which is just about 15 shamblers and 20-30 hell knights in a small room with moderate cover. 
What song is that, I love it!
It's kinda hard to see what's going on but it sure looks fun. 
that's Beauty Never Fades, Junkie XL. it's the animatrix version.

and yeah, it's hard to see what's happening. i had to annotate when and what i was casting to help give some more indication on what's going on.

i'm still trying to see if i can balance it around running in normal maps, but it ends up being kind of boring only facing a couple of weak monsters at once.

i suppose i could make the player more fragile (and certainly the inability to pick up armour at all makes it more difficult) but the notion is that you are supposed to be playing a death king who was betrayed and stripped of most of his powers. 
Check It Out ! 
Looks Kind Of Mindless 
I don't doubt there's more finesse than it looks like there is, but if you can't see any it's usually not as deep as you think. 
there's room for more interesting abilities, i think.

the thing i'm finding when i test stuff is that if there are a lot of abilities, you usually don't have time to pick the best choice in a heated combat situation.

so it's finding abilities that would be useful in a wide range of situations, don't unbalance gameplay and are fun that's the hard part.

ie: you used to be able to slow monsters down to 30% of their movement speed. it was very useful, but ultimately very boring. you'd get a mass of slow moving monsters in the center of a room. i replaced it with the teleport which, while less useful, makes gameplay faster by giving you really good maneuverability.

but yes, if you would consider a game like diablo or hellgate mindless, than that's definately what this mod would be to you. :) but then, quake itself isn't far off from that either. 
Yes, It Is 
you don't just run up to stuff in quake and click it to death 
No, you stand back a ways and click it to death. 
oooauu baby 
No, you stand back a ways and click it to death.

hehe pretty much. :) i mean, sure you dodge shots and take cover in quake, but you do that in melee too, but aside from dodging shots, you're also juking back and forth to trigger melee attacks while avoiding the damage.
it's at least on par with quake in it's simplicity/complexity.
the big difference now is that item management is removed and placed in the player's hands.

i think what's maybe missing is more variety in the main attack-- the sword itself.

what i think i'll do is something like oblivion where the direction you move affects the type of swing you'll do.
back: normal damage + bleeding
forward: strong single attack (more damage if bleeding)
or there's the option of just making sword hits do different effects and you'd switch them like weapons in quake.

or something.

thanks for the feedback though, i appreciate it. :) very helpful while developing this on my own for so long. 
being at range means you have an order of magnitude
- more space in which to dodge projectiles and advancing monsters
- more targets to prioritize
- more attacks of your own to choose from

your video doesn't show you juking to trigger melee attacks, you just wade into two dozen hell knights and start clicking. Occasionally I see a label appear like "regeneration," and the combat doesn't appear to change at all.

movement based attacks would definitely help although there'd have to be reasons to use each one depending on the situation you're in. More than one melee weapon with some differentiation between them would be nice too (ala the warrior class in Hexen). 
Charged Attack? 
Holding down fire charges the sword, when released it does a single strike for more damage.

Thirdperson camera would be good as well to put the dodging back in - but the general reaction to thirdperson cameras in Quake is disgust.

Could work well with the teleport spell though. 
MMO-style combat mechanics generally need to be supported by a really good HUD/interface. Without the proper feedback as to what the heck's going on, it all tends to get a bit messy and confusing. Being in first-person might not be helping matters either, but what the hell, it sounds like an interesting experiment. 
your video doesn't show you juking to trigger melee attacks, you just wade into two dozen hell knights and start clicking.

if you're talking about the very beginning, i wade into the monsters because my original plan was to stick with the fiend pet. his melee attacks hit everyone in front of him, so i was going to make monsters swap between me and it but i ended up getting cut off from him and he drops like a rock. at that point, i knew i was in trouble, so i pop regeneration to mitigate some damage. now i'm fully trapped in a corner, surrounded by hknights so i teleport through them in order to get some space.

ijed: i tried it out with the built in fitzquake 3rd person cam. it's ok, but you loose some accuracy esp. w/regards to teleporting (at least for me). it's not something i'd want to enforce on the player.

kinn: yeah, not having the ability to display information is making me run up against a lot of walls.
cooldows are displayed in the ammo counters but that means i can only ever have 4 cooldowns (and the cells slot is used to display pet health %).

i might try to shift this over to doom3, but then that'd be even more work and d3 isn't as flexible as quake before you need to start compiling the sdk. 
saw this picture in #qdq anyone know when it will be finish? 
A month or two I think. 
But Ask Trinca 
near christmas T|M i wish... layout is almost finish necros,negke and ijed are helping me a lot, i will not rush this map like others... i wanted to make this a blast, i will try hard at least...

still have many stuff to fix, but i�m not withy any hurry... the best are helping me out and i dont want to desapoint then! 
this is a really great looking map, and i see you've put some good work into the lighting. shots 3 and 4 esp. look atmospheric.

great job so far :) 
Love It 
Yeah I am really looking forward to playing this one!

One thing I will say is that will the bright skybox in one of the pictures the level looks quite dark, maybe adjust the skylight parameters there? Otherwise...Kick arse. 
thks to you concerting in lights!!! you gave me 90% help on this issue. i read the Aguire manual just have some dificult on the softangle :\

Daz skybox is not decide iet :\ i must get a proper on...

thks for the motivacion! i will not quit this one and i will not rush it. 
That Looks Pretty Good 
not sure if you can break up the texturing a bit, that would be the only thing I can think of from those shots. 
If It Was Me... 
i'd try using more grassy ground in the exteriors (so it's green and brown instead of just brown.) 
Green And Brown 
I did a remix of two of the original Quake ground textures recently, blending together green vines and leaves and a muddy background.

If it suits your needs, here it is, already palettized: 
You Put A Bmp On The Internet 
that is so 2008 
Looks good, Trinca! I love the old temple and dirt style. 
nooo, the browniness of it all is what makes it stand out for me in the first place ^^ 
DaZ (beta)? 
thks Willem, necros in lights and negke in brushwork are helping me a lot :) i hope the final work will please you all. 
Now go finish this Maya map: I want to play it !!!! 
Looking Good, Trinca! 
I am really looking forward to this release. Just don't let Negke convince you that you need a Puzzles or Traps section :p 
Looks Good! 
nice curves and lightened. 
I don't see the association between me and this site, maybe its cos im topped off with vodka right now? 
bmp gone web2.0 ... 
Ahh, Yes 
maybe make the floors less even somehow?

love the curves... 
Yet Another (not The Same Map) 
That Looks Very Cool! 
I like the way you have mixed up the themes a bit, it makes it look very ineresting. 
looks great!!!

next time take the shoot much brighter please :) 
one for stress :\

negke cutesy for this one ;)

he made a good option in this one!!! 
+1 TrincA 
Nice dude, looking forward to it. 
Like everything in life motivacion is our best friend!!!

thks Shambler for support ;) 
shops sorry :\ shambler and all :) 
Now it is time to release it: go finish your map !! 
will take much more time JPL ;)

be pacient!!! 
More Time 
on the melting iceberg 
I Need Your Help! 
here's the second beta release of my rgb deathmatch map pack. neg!ke and i have been testing these maps for years - now it's your turn =)

i'm looking forward to your feedback.

Better Late Than Never, Eh? 
Better Response... 
In the "green" map there were a few times when I tried to get the megahealth and got stuck in the corner - literally suck, unable to move, in slime.

Other than that I think they were okay. :) 
cool efdat. you should join the 3 together into a big single player level. might need a setpiece or 2 though. i like green the best. 
green rockz 
While they don't have yaw dropping in your face visuals they do radiate that special quake sex appeal in larger doses than I've seen in a long time. The only reservation I have is the mushrooms in blue, while I normally appreciate the nice forms of shrooms they do come off as too blocky and stiff to be organic and doesn't fit very well in this context.

All in all I'm very impressed just be looking at them and hope I'll get around to playing them. 
Shots Of My Current Map 
Here are 2 shots of my current project...

Feel free to comment ;) 
looks nice, but arent the ligts to flat? :) 
Wow, That Looks Nice 
Looks good!

What's that texture set? 
A mix in between Doom3 and Half Life texture set.. I suppose I'm mapping for the wrong game :P 
Don't Think So 
There's still, ten years on, a wealth of unexplored possibilities for this game. 
.. I hope this map will please most of you.. even the Quake purists ;) 
Looks good so far. However there are a few tweaks you should definitely consider:

1) The height of the encircling wall is too uniform, especially if the player can almost see over it. Bring the vertical intersecting bulkheads up further, or add some angles, anything to reduce the obviousness of the straight line running all the way around the top of the wall.

2) It looks like you've used a high minlight value. Please don't do this; it looks very washed out and bland. There are effectively only two light values in the outside area that we see: the sunlight, and the minlight.

The central column/tower in both screenshots looks very cool, I think. I can barely see it. Add some spotlights so we can see the curvy detail.

3) That's the marcher fortress skybox you're using, yes? To my eyes it doesn't fit the textural theme you've selected. You have muted blue and tan rust, which I like btw, but then this intense bright orange sunset on rocks sky. Especially in fd16.jpg, it just looks wrong. Actually, you might consider some colored lighting, if you matched the sunlight color to the skybox color, the problem would be gone. The textures would look more interesting and varied with subtly colored point lights too. 
Some infos about your comments:

1/ The player will not be able to reach this point without "noclipping": I did fly to take these 2 shots, so the flatness of the top of the encircling walls is not visible as the shots show it... But I will take this point into account... and see if I can do something there...

2/ Minlight value is 25, and sunlight is 130.. It is enough to avoid completely pitched black area... and I think I will add mor lights on the bridges betwen the latform and the central tower... it will help to add more contrast here and there in this area

3/ I used this skybox (i.e Kell's dragonheart) because of the start area... it fits well there with the rock textures I used... You'll see that in time ;)

Thanks a lot everybody for the feedback ;) 
That's Some Prompt Refeedback 
It looks from the shots that the helipad platform with ammo and a crate on it is about the same height as the encircling wall. I suppose this could be a perspective illusion though. 
Are you using airoplanes or is it just a wild geek of me?

map looks really good. 
To Be Honest, 
I'm getting better results with maps like the Zer_turtle where there is no sky lighting, than earlier maps I made that used it. No matter the settings, sky lighting tends to over blend to the detriment of obtaining nice contrast in the shading colors that make up a good looking scene. 
Minlight 25 is very high. You might want to try sunlight3 instead (set it to 70 maybe) and light all interiors with sourced and unsourced point lights. Black shadows aren't a bad thing unless they look out of place for some reason. 
And That Lava Texture Still Looks Ugly 
At least increase the scale or something. 
MadFox: There are no airplane in this map... OTOH I will be happy to find an Helicopter prefab and put it onto the platform ;)

HT: Regarding the sun position i the skybox, it is obvious that is i the evening, when the sky goes down. Furthermore, the orange color of the skybox doesn't give the impression of a high luminosity of the sun... hence the value I used... Anyway, I think the shot rendering is not as good as what the map looks like ingame...

negke: Actually the minlight is 20, and the sunlight is 120. I also don't like areas that are competely pitched black, and where you see nothing. Unfortunately there are some in the map, and I would not like to have these... If I need an area with no light (and there are some), I simply use anti-light ;)
Concerning the lava, I agree with you: I will increase its scale :)

Thanks for the feedback 
I like that style of lighting. There is a difference if you use minlight because you're lazy, or if you're actually going for that look where the colors seem to blend into one another. It can look very dim, forlorn, and even unreal in a good way. Sunlight3 with lots of sky windows looks better and more natural than lighting the same area with torches or even invisible point lights (meh). I've had enough of torches. I still use them of course, but only in places where they would naturally belong.

I agree there could be some brighter light sources on the walkways/platform though. Streetlights or spotlights. Around the lava, too. Like on an oil rig - lots of small bright lights.

The handrail could be even thinner.

Minlight/antilight is not that different from sunlight3, it's just the other way around ;-)

I'd say you've achieved the effect you were going for JPL. 
JPL i quit minlight!!! negke made me quit!!!

he is worse then my wife ;) hehehe but he is right like my wife :\ is negke a shemale=? :)

fuck sundaysssssss... i�m drunk !!!! :)

negke u�re my favorit mapper i love YOU in Quake matters!!! 
I stopped using minlight too. Lunaran bitched at me so much that I tried it with no minlight. And I think it is good to have completely dark areas. However if you do want to light a completely dark area just a tiny bit then put a light like:

"classname" "light"
"light" "50"
"wait" "0.2"

I'm doing this in my current map with a slightly blue colour. It acts like reflected light from the sky. ;) 
Site has a lot of prefabs! They are qle formatted, but I found the Doombird there.
The whole site is free to download ans there are really a lot of prefabs. 
Link Please !!! 
you can have completely dark with antilights, too. It's just a different method.

Sunlight3 also gives you completely dark areas, just not where you have sky. That's actually pretty realistic.Go to a forest during daytime in the fall or winter, you won't see many shadows despite the fact that most of the light comes from above :) You start seeing shadows only when the sun goes down, and the "minlight" fades away.

BTW. even during the night, it's not completely dark, as long as the room has a window. Completely dark is only a cellar or similar, if there's absolutely no opening to the outside. A bunker for example, or a cave.

Nature doesn't hate minlight. Quite the opposite. 
It depends how fast our eyes accomodate with the darkness ;) and I mostky agree with you :D 
I experienced that once. We were visiting a cave tour one time and they took you deep into it and turned off the lights. There was no bounce light from anywhere and complete and utter darkness descended. It's eerie. Your eyes feel very strange trying to deal with no light whatsoever. 
Darkness Accomodation... 
... according to my experience (and what I experimented during night rally in the army), generally, an eye passing from light to darkness (by night) needs at least around 15mn to accomodate... 
(me pictures Willem on infra-red in a cave, blinking and looking worried cause he cant see at all...) 
I don't think the problem is so much that minlight is unrealistic, because like people say, in reality light bouncing off walls means nowhere ends up entirely black. I think it's more than not using minlight forces you to think about how you're lighting every part of your map, so you're always trying to create some variation in it. Even if it is just creating low wait lights to fill the space, the slowly changing lightmap helps to break up the repetition of the textures. 
That's true, good point. 
There are several links to Qoole, I prefer 2.31
Not long ago one could download all prefabs, in fact the whole qoole cd. But the link has gone. So I sended you some to your mailbox. 
OK, thank you very much ;) 
Minlight can be set so that you don't have to think about the dark corners, which allows you to ignore decent falloff and placement.

Generally now I use 5-10 minlight. 
Play Fear PM 
To see how minlight should NOT be used 
More Cubism 
Nice Title 
Looks fucking rad!
I'm assuming it's going to be released when we're all rotting in our graves? Thats when my 9 map remake of Insomnia will be released. 
~looks very Quakey... now go finish it!!!

and i go work on mine to :\

that i will not finish for christmas for sure:( 
There's a little story behind this one that almost guarantees it will be released. Eventually anyway. 
Heh, a Doom platformer in the works:

Now, some news on ArcadeQuake please. 
looks great :) 
Still waiting for The Shores of Zdoom 
Arena_Mudfarm V3

Link to Arena_Mudfarm v3. Only blue side has any major detailing/gameplay changes to it. Going to try to get that look right before moving on to the Red side. Any/all feedback welcome here, but preferably in the thread: 
cool news at least for me!!! finish tchak today :p

ok ok, i forced a litle... becouse i�m almost above of marksurfaces(32138) and will need the few that rest for fixes!!!

will start beta friday ;)

maby this could come out before christmas...

my boss last week and in this one has been out
in formacions... :)

= lots of free time to map with no bosses in my legs pissing me up... 
to turn this one as it had me flat. 
Niet Gevonden 
Not a map beta but a beta for a replacement for shub-hub. I talked it over with Spirit and I think I got this about as close as I can to how shub worked.

Let me know what you think! Same password as shub... 
yet found 
Thats excellent news!!! You know I'll totally abuse it with screenshots, demos and maps, right?
Although I never posted any betas on the hub, AFAIK, so you wont have to worry about that kind of crap. Ive never had a beta which I wanted publicly available... 
But Seriously Thank You Very Much Indeed! 
thks Willem and Spirit 
"You know I'll totally abuse it with screenshots, demos and maps, right? "

Please do. :) I want to see if this thing actually works... 
I've Got A Couple Of Early Shots To Post 
but I cant log in.
ilovetheshubhub ilovequaketastic nope no nope not that eh. ;P 
please will we keep the 404 screen? Have you seen it? It er, ... I love that screen... 
Hahaha, god I suck. OK, password fixed. Really, it's the same as shub-hub, I swear! Sorry... 
Stylin'! Nice shots too - love the bridge! 
I sent you a mail ~12 hours ago, did you get it (got some weird relay errors when trying earlier, that's why I ask). 
Yep, I got it. Will reply... 
Very Nice 
but I must say, is that the q2 rock texture? Its horrible :(

If you can find the texture wad that is floating around from the game "Rune" it has some great rock textures in it, I've been using them exclusively in my maps for a long time. 
will check it out... ;P

Willem: Thanks :-) 
Great Ricki 
show r_showtris 1 fitz shot from that rocky area!
Reminds me of your earlier stuff and terra's first maps too, which means it's great... 
I Like That Rock Texture 
I guess it could use some scaling it up or whatever, but I think it looks fine. 
More Monsters... 
arghhhh i always hated this one in doom :\ 
That Idle Sound 
that they make used to really piss me off/freak me out 
I can hardly relate them to any sound, that's a small problem to me.
Sofar I can make them visible in Quake, but Doom has that 16bit texture that's horrible to substitute in Wally.

Further I get the nasty habbit, that when I export them to a modelling studio they immedeately start with vertices mixedup.
So I have to counterpart all loosing frames.
Most important is getting a good base/tex frame. 
So who is working on stuff? I'm doing a medieval map at the moment that's already running me over an hour in VIS time - not sure why, but it is. I don't intend for it to be massive though.

Anyone else? 
On playing with textures for a project I'll be starting based off whether I can get the textures to feel/look how I want them to. 
release soon... :\ i realy want to start a fresh no stuff 
just my tower map atm. i seem to be stuck though. :P 
Working On Something 
until I start to hate it all over again, and then I'll go back to the thing I haven't put up in the editor in over a year and if it looks slightly less repulsive than I remember, I might get that one to Alpha. 
I'm working on the doom monsters for quake, but it's hard to substitute their sprite attacks. Quake won't give me more than one frame mdl seq. 
Long time finishing, but what's already been completed is a great incentive. 
How much is finished so far, ijed? 
~9 maps in beta.

We're basing all the code off the gameplay needed in the maps, meaning as the maps get closer to completion more entities will probably be introduced.

The basic stuff like old, known bugs and a completely reworked multiplayer system is close to finished.

New enemy list:

Berserk Ogre
Nail Ogre
Lavaman (subject to change)

New Behaviours:
Spawning (Quoth style)
Dodging (mild)
Flagged 'Wargear' (some monsters can carry extra stuff)
General AI improvements
Monster grouping

And lots of stuff in the works. 
Lavaman (subject to change)

Is that, like, the miniature Chthon? I didn't like those a single bit. 
That's why we're thinking to change them - a scaled down chthon doesn't add much. 
I was melting some archville mdl.
What a creep that qmle and verticecounts. 
Not going to blast the player in place?

Like the walk animation. 
He Crawls So Hard I Couldn't Make A Demo Before He Grabbed Me 
It's a tryout for seeing how far I could imitate its original sprite.
For testing the walk scene I just put notarget. 
That looks great. What a creepy bastard! Textures/Skins are always the "yay or nay" parts, it definitely is on a good way. 
The Zdoomgl Models 
The ZdoomGl monsters have their sprites in mdl.
I was trying to combine them in Qmle, but it�s a hazerdly job.
Qmle is extremely worried about the same verticecounts, even when they are the same.

My goal is to give them the same look as in Doom, but mdl will never substitute a sprite.
And yes, texturing is almost as far from mapping as modelling is to texturing.