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Mapping Help
This is the place to ask about mapping problems, techniques, and bug fixing, and pretty much anything else you want to do in the level editor.

For questions about coding, check out the Coding Help thread:
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Multiple Mods 
Also, how does using multiple mods for Trenchbroom actually work in terms of running the map? I've noticed that I can only select one set of entity definitions at a time, making me wonder how multiple mods fit in. This doesn't really seem to be detailed in the TB documentation.

Although I have heard of an engine that tried to support this, in general there is no way to run more than one mod at once. Certainly for a first map I think that focusing on one would be the smart thing. 
Figured that would be the case. Thanks for taking the time anyway, cheers! 
That Isn't Going To Work 
You would need the source code for both mods and you would need to copy the relevant bits of code over to quoth and compile it. Not forgetting the assets like the model and sounds 
It's A Bit Misleading 
Mods actually just add more directories to search through for assets such as models. That's all. 
Well, that's on my wishlist for the next Quoth update then ;) 
Malformed Map File 
Haven't had that one in a while...
Tried to open map2 of my mod in TB, but I had this in red:
"Malformed map file: expected token of type opening parenthesis, or closing parenthesis, but found integer number at line 178, column 65"
I opened the map file in Sublime and went to the line, but it seems perfectly normal...
"( 32 2960 -48 ) ( 32 2960 224 ) ( 320 2960 -48 ) rock 6 0 0 0 1 1"
I tried to delete the line, but the error kept coming, so I deleted the paragraph, this time the error went to another line, which has the same "rock 6 0 0 0 1 1" in its paragraph.
I'm kind of afraid deleting all the paragraphs containing that line would delete an integrate cave I had to model, and TB didn't bat an eye to this. 
That Looks Like A Quake 2 Map File 
Fixed It 
Somehow the texture "rock6" from the first episode of Daikatana was changed to "rock 6". I wonder why. 
Need Some Help... 
All I need is some stats.

My question is what is the longest time it took you to compile a map with lighting on a modern machine? 
That Depends On 
Size of the map, how much detailed brushes...optimized design etc.

Anyway, about 5 or 10 minutes 
Show BSP Information Ingame 

Is there a hidden console command or something else to display BSP information ingame? Like how the Map is divided, which sections etc.

Just like this picture here: 
R_drawflat 1 
Unknown Command R_DRAWFLAT 
I use darkplaces. Which Quake 1 engine do I need to use to get this to work? 
Any Quake 1 Engine 
Which DarkPlaces is pretty much only on paper. 
This One 
Thx Otp 
r_showtris 0/1

r_showbboxes 0/1

r_lightmap 0/1

can be helpful to. 
DP Uses Different Names 
r_showsurfaces (= r_drawflat)
gl_lightmaps (= r_lightmap) 
Other DP Stuff 
"r_drawportals 1" shows the BSP leafs/portals

Also for finding cvars in DP:
"apropos lightmap" will list all cvars with "lightmap" in the name 
Awesome, Thanks! 
Is there is a quick way to align textures on different brushes in TrenchBroom? I can easily tell which ones are not aligned in-game but it's hard to tell in the editor. 
For me is easiest when I turn off texture lock. That way textures are always grid aligned. 
For me is easiest when I turn off texture lock. That way textures are always grid aligned. 
Leaf/portals In Other Engines?? 
Or is it only DP? 
Does Ur Mum Take Three In The Pipe?? 
Or is it only DP? 
Map Compile Error. 
I'm getting an error when compiling a map. I am using trenchbroom to make the map and TyrUtils to compile, with a compiler GUI. I think the compiler is losing track of the .bsp after it converts it, but I'm not sure why. It was working one day, and the next day it was't.

Here's a link to a couple screen shots:

Also, I tried resinstalling TyrUtils and the GUI, but that didn't help.

Any help is appreciated! 
Mixing Liquid Faces? 
like water and sky/lava?

Avoid that by having a small gap between them. 
Looks like it may have been a Windows issue for the above ^^

When he showed me the file, I noticed windows said some content was blocked because it came from another computer. I unblocked it and was able to compile with Quark, but it also had some errors. Very weird , but maybe he can explain better what actually stopped the errors. 
Another Thing To Note Regarding Liquif Brushes 
You have to avoid clipping them out to the void, compensate that by putting worldspawn brushes on/around said liquid brushes. 
Mfx and daya have it; mixed contents error stops the bsp from being created and then vis says no file found. :( 
Arcane Dimension Spider Jumping Through Ceiling 

I made box that is 4 pixels higher and 8 wider than spider entity, but for some odd reason it jumps, stucks, then jumps, starts to slowly get through the ceiling. Like what am I doing wrong? Is there any updates or fixes for that issue*

Here is some screenshots:

In Trenchbroom Editor view:

Running map in Quakespasm engine: 
I had this problem and it was just a matter of fine tuning the position. Either push the spider out a bit or raise the ceiling even higher and test until the thing behaves! 
Thanks For Replying "Spider" 
Ah, yeah it seems to be the case here. Even the main entities like grunts for example needs more or less 80 high and 64 pixels wide because it starts even consider coming out of door. I don't know how does it differ when comparing to other mods, but in "AD" mod enemies AI needs more pixels to work well.

Reason why I'm spending so much time with this is, because I want to make really narrow hallways or put the ceiling really low to create some claustrophobic feelings especially in tech bases.

Another Question: what is the highest angle enemies can run over? 15? 30? 45? I know I should test it by myself - but if someone has already figured that out, why not sharing it here? Also I'm new to this site's interface, don't even know how these topics work. It seems like everyone is stacking replies over the existing ones. 
How Clips Should Work? 
Clips are invisible brushes, right? Should it block player not to stuck on details/geometry? If so, it's simple is not doing that. I placed the clip brush match the detailed brushes, when I run it it didn't block player and player walk between bars etc. and get stuck.

I'm using Quakespasm endige & mod Arcane Dimension. 
make sure all faces of brush are clip texture 
And Also 
And also all faces of brush are clip texture, but it's not working for some reasons. 
Well slopes are just a bit finicky in general for Quake/Brush based so a clip brush would help.

If you have some sort of slope, make some clip brushes in the form of stair steps where the slope "joints" are. that way. 
I want to make really narrow hallways or put the ceiling really low to create some claustrophobic feelings especially in tech bases.

It's not the best idea for quake 
Can you use non-solid details like cables, wire mesh ceilings or thin func_illusionary pipes to make the space appear more claustrophobic that it actually is? 
Reply "Claustrophobia" 
Of course I can use, everything that would replace some hard geometry, because the gameplay is more important. And by claustrophobic spaces I mean actually 80pxl high & 64 wide or more, nothing crazy really. Though it would be nice to make something like "Beyond Belief" did in one map, where it felt like players head touched the ceiling but didn't get stuck.

I really well know that player doesn't move that smoothly if there is so much corners, doorways with details and so on. That's why I thought using clips would make it feel much smoother to move around, even in larger areas when it comes to moving near the walls if there is pillars, pipes or something a bit detailed work.

That clipping bug might be Trencbroom 2's fault, because it's still in beta. 
I Don't Think It's A Bug In TB 
Reply 'I Don't Think It's A Bug In TB' 
There is something with the placing entities, it seems like in the last stable version of TB1 everything is fine, but in TB2 some entities doesn't seem to appear exactly in those positions I placed them.

Thankfully there is couple transparent textures, and there is even invisible texture in wad "rmq_trans" hopefully that will work out* 
When Using Arcane Dimensions 
try setting no_item_offset 1 in worldspawn. 
Or It's A Problem With The Def Or FGD? 
Reply 'When Using Arcane Dimensions' 
Thank you very much*

More questions.. is there possible to set brushes be solid for player/enemies collission box detection, but you can shoot through it bullets/projectiles? For example if I use transparent chain-link fence textures in my brushes, it looks silly that enemies can't see you or you can't shoot or allow them shoot through it. It should only block/blow up physical projectiles like grenades/rockets... that might be too much to ask when starting to think about it. Unless it's possible to code into game's logic.

I know about coding a bit, so it shouldn't be to hard for me to understand quake's logic. But haven't been touching those files at all, dare I even look into that's a better question* 
Reply 'Or It's A Problem With The Def Or FGD?' 
It sure can be* I remember having no issues if I can recall when I used Quoth quake mod for example.. but I have to be sure about that first, it should be quite easy to test out. 
Re #16457 
did the no_item_offset key work?

For fence-textured stuff, make this func_illusionary, and cover it later with clip brushes (those are brushes textured with the "clip" texture on ALL sides)

Should block player/monster movements and be still shot through. 
Reply 'Angles' 
Thanks, what an nice idea - I will use it totally sooner or later* 
Re #16459 
Yes it did.. clipping seems to work now.. I don't what I did work but now player moves smoothly near the iron bars.. what a relief ^^ 
Re #16459 Sorry Grammar Mistakes 
Yes clipping works now.

I don't know what I did, but it works now and player moves smoothly near the iron bars.. what a relief ^^ 
Netradiant Compiling/Linux Question... 
Don't know if this counts as a mapping question, but there's no Netradiant/general editor thread from what I can see...

I want to set up Netradiant from xonotic's git as an alternative to use alongside TB (xaGe kindly suggested it to me a lifetime ago, but other things got in the way in the mean time). Compiling things from source and using git etc. always tends to make my brain melt and once again I'm running into trouble and need help.

I've consulted the compiling instructions, according to which I need the following on Linux:
27 - gcc >= version 3.1 (preferably)
28 - GNU make
29 - svn >= 1.1 (some build steps use svn)
31 dependencies:
32 - gtk+ >= 2.4.0 (requires glib, atk, pango, iconv, etc)
33 - gtkglext >= 1.0.0 (requires opengl)
34 - libxml2 >= 2.0.0
35 - zlib >= 1.2.0 (for archivezip module)
36 - libpng >= 1.2.0 (for imagepng module)

This was already a bit puzzling to me, as these things seem to have slightly different names when I try to look for them in Synaptic Package Manager, but I think I now have everything in that list installed (plus possibly a few extra things).

I've done git clone git:// and went into the "netradiant" directory, but now when I run "make" I get this output:

checking that the build tools exist
Checking for /bin/sh (bash (or another shell))... found.
Checking for echo (coreutils)... found.
Checking for echo -n (coreutils)... found.
Checking for cat (coreutils)... found.
Checking for mkdir -p (coreutils)... found.
Checking for cp (coreutils)... found.
Checking for cp -r (coreutils)... found.
Checking for rm -f (coreutils)... found.
Checking for rm -f -r (coreutils)... found.
Checking for mv (coreutils)... found.
Checking for echo test | tee /dev/stderr (coreutils)... found.
Checking for sed (sed)... found.
Checking for find (findutils)... found.
Checking for diff (diff)... found.
Checking for cc (gcc)... found.
Checking for g++ (g++)... found.
Checking for ranlib (binutils)... found.
Checking for ar (binutils)... found.
Checking for pkg-config (pkg-config)... found.
Checking for unzip (unzip)... found.
Checking for git (git-core)... found.
Checking for svn (subversion)... found.
Checking for wget (wget)... found.
Checking for ldd (libc6)... found.
All required tools have been found!

checking that the dependencies exist
Checking for glib/gutils.h (libglib2.0-dev)... not found, please install it or set PKG_CONFIG_PATH right!
To see the failed commands, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=verbose
To proceed anyway, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=off
Checking for libxml/xpath.h (libxml2-dev)... not found, please install it or set PKG_CONFIG_PATH right!
To see the failed commands, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=verbose
To proceed anyway, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=off
Checking for png.h (libpng12-dev)... not found, please install it or set PKG_CONFIG_PATH right!
To see the failed commands, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=verbose
To proceed anyway, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=off
Checking for GL/gl.h (mesa-common-dev (or another OpenGL library))... not found, please install it or set PKG_CONFIG_PATH right!
To see the failed commands, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=verbose
To proceed anyway, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=off
Checking for gtk/gtkdialog.h (libgtk2.0-dev)... not found, please install it or set PKG_CONFIG_PATH right!
To see the failed commands, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=verbose
To proceed anyway, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=off
Checking for pango/pangoft2.h (libpango1.0-dev)... not found, please install it or set PKG_CONFIG_PATH right!
To see the failed commands, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=verbose
To proceed anyway, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=off
Checking for gtk/gtkglwidget.h (libgtkglext1-dev)... not found, please install it or set PKG_CONFIG_PATH right!
To see the failed commands, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=verbose
To proceed anyway, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=off
Checking for dlfcn.h (libc6-dev)... found and links.
Checking for zlib.h (zlib1g-dev)... found and links.
make: *** [dependencies-check] Error 1

I've checked again, and the "not found" items are things I have installed, so I'm stumped. Should I "set PKG_CONFIG_PATH right!"? What does that mean? 
Ok, so maybe I'm just an idiot and didn't install all the dependencies although I thought I had ...

Just installed a bunch more stuff, but "make" still gives me an error message. It's miles long and ends with
make: *** [contrib/bobtoolz/DPatch.o] Error 1


(I didn't post the full terminal output here since it's really, really long and I don't know which parts of it are relevant.) 
(I didn't post the full terminal output here since it's really, really long and I don't know which parts of it are relevant.)
use or similar :)

The make error 1 line doesn't tell anything useful, unfortunately. 
also I think this is the latest netradiant:

From looking at that readme, it looks like they've switched to CMake.

Yeah, the main trick is finding the debian package names.. which can take a bit of guesswork. e.g. the readme says you need GTK2, the corresponding debian package is "libgtk2.0-dev". Just use google when in doubt I guess. 
Thanks For Responding, Ericw! 
Oh, never used pastebin before. And the output seemed a lot longer the first time around; now there doesn't seem to be that much of it. Anyway, here it is: 
From looking at that readme, it looks like they've switched to CMake.

Ah, so I've been following outdated instructions...

So I did cmake -H. -Bbuild -G "Unix Makefiles", and that did something, but now I don't know what I'm supposed to do next, or whether I was supposed to something else first... the readme doesn't make that much sense to me. 
Seems the code is written for C++11 but the compiler is not expecting that version of C++.

you can try running: CXXFLAGS="-std=c++11" make
instead of just make

I would report it as an issue to the netradient devs though. Also, what is the output of: g++ --version
After doing
cmake -H. -Bbuild -G "Unix Makefiles"

you should do this:
cd build

CMake generates the Makefile for building radiant in the "build" subdirectory. (when you run "make", it looks for a file called Makefile in the current directory). 
g++ (Ubuntu 4.8.4-2ubuntu1~14.04.3) 4.8.4
Copyright (C) 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO

I'm doing
cd build

and something is happening... 
Thank you, ericw! 
Great :) 
Help For Mac 
how I can qbsp a map in mac? The qbsp opens with terminal but i can�t drag a map. 
Weird Compile Error

Not very sure how to find those bad faces in TB2. Anyone care to help? 
Hm, the error message got a bit distorted from multiple threads printing at once.

The verts listed in the error will show you where the face is.. what I always do is create some point entity like a light, and paste in one of the verts from the error message. e.g. check out "1512.000 1300.000 488.000".

You should just need to reset the texture alignment on these faces, and that should fix the problem 
@Johnison Boa 
copy the "qbsp" executable in your quake/id1/maps folder.

Open Terminal, and enter:
cd ~/Desktop/quake/id1/maps

assuming your quake directory is on your desktop, adjust as needed. 
BSP (or Not). 
Working with Jackhammer on my new laptop, but I can't seem to get any compile progs to create a .bsp file (even tho the compile window says they are):

---- WriteBSPFile ----
17 planes 340
22 vertexes 264
6 nodes 144
16 texinfo 640
16 faces 320
12 clipnodes 96
2 leafs 56
16 marksurfaces 32
72 surfedges 288
37 edges 148
4 textures 38260
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 323

1 warning

Elapsed time : 0:00

Peak memory used : 0.1 MB

** Executing...
** Command: C:/Program Files/Jackhammer/quake/vis.exe
** Parameters: "C:Program Files (x86)QuakeId1mapstestes"
Quake VIS Compiler (build Dec 11 2013)
------------ vis ------------
************ ERROR ************
Error opening C:Program Files (x86)QuakeId1mapstestes.bsp: No such file or directory

Any ideas? 
The proper slash grammar for the file (C:\Program Files (x86)\Quake\Id1\maps\testes) wasn't retained for some reason when I pasted that last post in. 
Oh Jesus God. 
It's still not doing it -- well, that's not a factor, in any case ;D 
Maybe It's Because Of The Spaces In The Path? 
What, you mean with "Program Files", and whatnot? I didn't have a problem with that before. 
Oops, sorry for later answer. Thanks for help 
Were You Also Using Jackhammer Before? 
When Portal Prt Files Go Wrong 
Any idea why, on a ridiculously large map using bsp2, the map won't do vis properly saying there is a leak and drawing a portal line right through a solid face?

I tried the ol trick of a box around the whole level but it says there's too many verts.

Sorry, using Tyrbsp for bsp2. 
Yeah, I was using Jackhammer. Guess I could try compiling directly from the C: drive to see if that's the culprit in this case. 
Which hull is the leak in? If in hull 2, there is a good chance a clip brush over that brush (where the pointfile goes right through) will do the trick.

Else, rebuild that brush or change brushorder in the .map file(put it first), or or or.. 
My Qbsp 
In terminal I put mycd~/desktop/quake%folder/qspasm/Quake/MapID/maps/qbsp and then not works :(

what I skipped? 
Johnison Boa 
Looks like you put the two commands ericw gave you together by accident, maybe?

First, you need to type
cd ~/wherever/you/put/your/mapfiles

(this just means that you go to the directory where your maps are; "cd" stands for change directory. Don't forget the space after "cd")

and then

./qbsp thenameofyourmap

(This is to run the qbsp executable.)

All of the above is assuming you have the qbsp executable and .map file in the same directory. 
If there's a space in the directory name you need to escape it with a backslash like:
cd ~/Desktop/quake\ maps/
or surround the path with quotes. Tab completion should do that automatically. 
Apparently relocating Quake to the base C drive took care of things. Odd that I had to do that, but as long as it works... 
I've Always 
Have QUAKE directory directly under C to avoid "Windows cannot find directory C:\Program" during compile since because Windoze. 
I've had issues with maps not compiling using Ericw's tools as well, and I've found that putting the .map itself in the C drive fixes the issue right away.

Anyway, I'm having an issue with the vorelings in Quoth. They're tiny little critters, so I figured they'd be fine getting stuffed into a small hole and jumping out at the player as they walk by. No such luck, as they get stuck. The only workaround I've been able to figure out myself is to make a bunch of func_illusionaries around them so they can actually get out of the hole.

In that pic you can see the two small holes. The brush between them, as well as brushes sixteen units to either side of them and about 32 units above them are all func_illusionaries. This "works," as far as the vorelings' intended behavior goes, but it's far, far from ideal because shots and grenades go right through the illusionaries as well, and I could fit Quakeguy's entire body up there with a rocket jump. Is there a better way to pull this off. 
R_showbboxes 1 Is Your Friend. 
The quake engine only supports three sizes of objects when it comes to things fitting through gaps:

� Point sized
� Human sized
* Shambler sized

Vorelings are "human sized" for this reason. If you want them to come from a surprising angle, the option of making them hang from a ceiling is worth considering. 
you could use func_illusionary to make the holes appear smaller than they actually are, and allow the vorelings through. 
nevermind I totally didn't read your post properly 
@onetruepuple - Very useful, thanks!

@Preach - That is very good to know. 
I tryed enter:



cd ~/Users/usuario/Desktop/Quakefolder/Quake/MapID/maps./qbsp

cd ~/Users/usuario/Desktop/Quakefolder/Quake/MapID/maps/qbsp

and more.

I can`t qbsp, vis, light with tyran utils in mac, the binnaries are recognized as unix file... 
Where is the file "", and where is the qbsp executable? Are they both in
/Users/usuario/Desktop/Quakefolder/Quake/MapID/maps? Are you sure this is the correct path? If so, what you need to do is open a Terminal and type:

cd ~/Desktop/Quakefolder/Quake/MapID/maps

Press the "enter" key, and then type


and press the "enter" key again. 
I have qbsp in maps folder, but this action too I was done 
Do doors not block light? 
all func_* (b_models) do not block lights.
you can set a key on them, shadow 1. with this they will cast shadows, but no dynamic shadows.
So a door that is closed will have a shadow, but opening it wont remove the shadow drawn.
Can look strange and all. 
Dont`t Care More My Qbsp :) 
I downloaded ericw/tyrutils and now it works perfectly ;D 
@mfx That's also good to no. Fortunately I didn't need to implement shadow 1 after messing with the troublesome lighting. Lighting is hard! 
Help :O 
I added the "centroid" to quake.fgd, next I put scor.mdl and h_scourge.mdl to directory(obviously tested), next I added it to TB map, but when I test the bsp of this, the centroid not exists...

I need some other file? 
you're missing the centroid code my friend. I'm not sure if Scourge of Armagon's source has been released for you to compile a new progs.dat.

The next best bet is to map for a mod with it included. I think the Drake mod has it but I'm not sure any others do. 
5th Elephant 
Ok, when release my game obligated to make a .pak. 
What I Put For Look In Intermission? 
No Reply, I Found It... 
The Eye Of Hurricane In My Map 
func_plat starts in up floor, I want to stop it when be down, but I also want the plat up when player leaves it... 
Johnison Boa 
Not sure I understand what you want to do, but keep in mind that you can use a func_door (or even func_door_secret) to create a lift in a map.

A func_plat always starts at the bottom and moves up, but with a func_door you can create a lift that starts at the top and moves downwards (which sounds like what you are trying to do).

This might help a little: 
I forget that I watched it in the map source 
Undoing Func Brushes? 
I've been trying to make a first test for my map but vis can't get compiled because of lots of func_wall that I used on a group of brushes so I could select them easier (TB1).
Is there a way to turn them back to worldspawn brushes? Just putting "worldspawn in their classname doesn't seem to do anything. 
Right Click On Brush(es) Add To World 
Or something similar.

I think that is what you are looking for? 
Yes It Is, Thank You! 
Visiblity Problems 
In vis appears "couldn't read Qf1m1.prt" and is not there in "maps". Also when I test my map some boxes are not existing in the place I put and when I put "noclip" I look the same box in back floor or simply was not reached in game, with the most of the items it happens.

I want to know if is problem of the .prt file or another thing I don't considered.
Actually I never hit such issue, so, maybe it is just a path declaration problem when runing the tool (I would look for the prt file and try to figure out whether it exists... and if yes, where it is located first)

Also, is it happening with fast vis or full vis ? 
Fast & full? (?)
I have vis in "Quake/MapID/maps" for a custom mod, but when is time to vis the Qf1m1.bsp "couldn't read Qf1m1.prt"

I don't know if the .prt file is generated by qbsp or light, and also I don't know if .prt file has an important rol 
@Johnison Boa 
Your map probably has a leak. The PRT is generated by QBSP, but only if the map is sealed.

TrenchBroom has a "Load Point file" command that usually shows where the leak is. 
thanks, the leak was deleted 
Is necessary that the cd audio be 16 bits old?
I'm planing to make one for my mod... 
igonre "old" 
Two Bits More 
and he will be able to vote! 
Fast Vs Full Vis... No I Am Not "crazy" 
You can try to add a -fast option in your vis tool: this allow to have a faster processing, than a full vis as explained here below

fastvis - Performs a bsp and a quick version of the vis process. The entire world is made into a single bsp partition. It's fast, but when you look in a particular direction, you see every single detail in that direction. Nothing is blocked. A light map is created. This mode was used for space maps.

fullvis - the world is subdivided and broken up into smaller chunks so you can see only what is logically in your view. A light map is created. This is what is used to check polygon-in-view counts. Combined with light extra, it is the final compile for all maps.
I want use Rubicon2 for my new map. But I want to change palette. How is this possible? I planned to make a separate directory. I tried to run

quake.exe -basedir rubikon2 -game mygame

But rubikon2 not a separate game. His requires ID1. Are there any ideas? 
Make a copy of rubicon2 and put your palette in there. 
Interesting idea. Thanks! 
Humble Suggestion 
Why not make a copy of RRP instead? It's got all of Rubicon2 with a couple of extra tools and enemies, and is documented.

The only change to the original entities is the spawn, which has lower health and jumps less - although the reception was positive for this change.

It's not endorsed by Metslime of course, so if you want a clean Rubicon2 experience then maybe just stick with that. 
As far as I can remember, I played a little in the RRP, but I liked him. I will soon be playing again. And if it is more appropriate for my ideas, then I'll take it. Thanks for the idea 
Lighting Question 
I'm a situation that has left me rather stumped. Instead of explaining it, I have provided an illustration of the effect I wish to accomplish:

What would be the easiest, or most efficient way to achieve this, other than a huge number of anti-lights? 
Best Guess 
A big invisible brick in the sky that blocks the sunlight. With that texture name that makes it not be seen, whatever it's called. 
shadow 1
skip textured 
Negative Lighting 
You can also make a big light at the bottom which has a negative light value. 
would be my choice for this also. Try different falloff and wait values and see what works. Using a brush to block the sunlight would make a very harsh cutoff to the light which it doesn't look like you want judging from the pic 
Was Thinking With 
The fancy new sunlight tools and dirtmapping. 
Looks like anti-lights are the way to go in this case. It will take longer, but will yield the best results. Thanks for the suggestions. 
Stupid Question: 
What are anti-lights? Are they just light entities with a negative "light" value? 
Yep, Antilights = Negative Light Values 
Gibberish In The Centre Of The World 
Not sure if this should go in the TrenchBroom thread instead, but anyway...

I've been working on a map and in the 3d window, right where the three axes meet, there is this label that is unreadable. It looks like an entity label, but there is no entity there. In addition it looks like several different words printed over one another. Here's a screenshot (I would really rather not post the map itself in its current state; it's a mess of noobish brushwork and poorly-executed clich�d ideas that no-one should see):

I do have several func_groups in this map and my first thought was that I was seeing the names I gave to the func_groups superimposed on one another ... but why would I see that, and why in the centre of the world, especially when there are no func_groups or other entities there? I could understand it if this label popped up in a spot where I have several func_groups or nested groups, but here?

It is not really hindering my work on the map, but I am just curious as to what the cause may be. 
I don't know if this is similar or not, but using Netradient weird things can happen with brush based entities like func_walls. Sometimes the brushes get removed but the entity remains and it's location gets set to 0, 0, 0.

I would periodically have go to the entity list to track them down and delete them because they'd be unselectable from any of the map views. 
Thanks For Responding, Rick 
TrenchBroom doesn't seem to have an "Entity list", but what I've done based on what you've written is to have a look at the map in a text editor and also to open it in Netradiant (which I've recently installed but not really used; can't quite seem to grasp how it works).

In the text editor I can't see any brushes or entities that have 0, 0, 0 as their location.

The Entity list in Netradiant doesn't give me any coordinates: Is that normal? Is not particularly helpful in this instance... 
Looks Like A Bug 
A bug in Netradiant, you mean? 
How I Make A Counter Without Message 
Because are 2 scourges, when they get death activates a door for an ambush. 
Me Noob #16551 
I found it. No reply :P 
In Netradiant, it's definitely a bug. I managed to figure out how it happens at one point but now I've forgotten. I use an older version of Netradiant, so it may be fixed now. 
Crossed Wires 
Looks Like A Bug

In Netradiant, it's definitely a bug.

Hang on -- are we talking about the weird gibberish label I asked about initially (#16546), or the absence of coordinates in the Entity list sub-menu (#16548)? 
I Was Talking About TB 
Ah, ok. If you don't mind, I'd like to try and clean up my map a little first and/or see if I can figure out how to reproduce it before I report it as a bug on github. So far it's happening only in this one map, and as I wrote earlier, I'm embarrassed to share it publicly -- and without it, I'm guessing you'd have too little to go on anyway... 
Problems With A Portal And The Reasons Of A Leak 
"Reached occupant at (1152 576 -256), no filling performed.
Leak file written to Qf1m1.pts"

Is needed that the teleport and the teleport_destination are together in the same air area?

I got make a room closed, no windows and any type of hole. It's Down of the main floor and beside the portal teleport, separated by a wall.
I don't know if is by the cause of the point file.

If you don't understand, I make a copy of my map if you can look it 
You Can Also Send The Map Via Email 
I probably won't even look at it, only the source. 
Ok, thanks. I'll get back to you on that; I want to try and clean up the map a little in the mean time (I know it's not necessary, but I'd feel better about it). Is the e-mail listed in your func_msgboard user profile the one I should use? 
Netradiant Question(s) 
Might as well ask this now as well, while I'm here: can someone perhaps tell me how I can add texture wads to Netradiant? I can't for the life of me figure it out.

And on the topic of Netradiant, does anyone know of any decent tutorials for beginners, preferably focusing on Quake mapping? 
Also if you switch to Netradiant for Quake editing, I'd be super grateful if you write down your reasons why. That would certainly help me tremendously in improving TB. 
Not planning to switch, although I would like to learn Netradiant at some point just so as to know a second (more traditional?) editor. TrenchBroom is the first level editor I've ever used, and I feel I'd understand the process better if I get to know it from a second, different perspective too (kind of like how when you learn an additional language, it helps you grasp the underlying structure of languages in general better).

I also think I'd be able to give you better feedback on TB if I have something to compare it to -- e.g. "x is easier to do in Netradiant, can you implement that in TB?" (like with the grid coordinates).

In any case, that's a medium-term goal; the short-term goal is just to at least be able to look at my maps in Netradiant for comparison.

If -- hypothetically -- I should switch in the future, then yes, I will let you know why. 
Right On 
To add texture wads in Netradiant, just put them in the ID1 folder (where pak0.pak and pak1.pak are). It should find them automatically. 
Ah, thanks! That did it. 
Doors Are Driving Me Up The Wall 
Ugh, I always have trouble with doors. I can never get two door brushes to slide in opposite directions. It always takes me forever to figure out what the angle value should be and it seems impossible to set two different angles (so that they don't just move together like one brush). Every time I edit one func_door's properties the other one changes automatically too.

My apologies for asking something that's probably been asked a million times before (it probably doesn't help that I'm really tired), but what are the correct values to give two func_doors to make them slide apart in opposite directions? Using TrenchBroom 2 Beta. 
"angle" "0" And "angle" "180" Respectively 
Thank You, Czg 
Is easy add new content to the progs.dat?
example: "progs/g_laserg.mdlLaser Cannonweapon_laser_gun" more or less this.

Also I Can add progs2.dat to directory? 
Johnison Boa 
you can only have one progs.dat (in normal engines at least) so you'll have to add the new content as new quakec files and then recompile all the quakec into a single new progs.dat. 
Door Angles, Cont. 
Could someone please tell me what the correct angle is to let a door move directly downwards?

(Sorry for these questions, but I don't get what the frame of reference is for door angles -- I mean, if it's a 360 degree circle, I don't know on which axis that circle is. And I've seen negative and positive values as door angles as well, and I just find it all utterly confusing.) 
Up = -1, Down = -2 
The 360 circle is always laying on the floor, 0 points to the east. -1 and -2 are special cases that are converted to straight up and down. 
Thank You Once Again, Czg :) 
I'm bookmarking this for future reference.

How does one know where east is in a map (apart from trial and error)? 
jackhammer has an up or down option. 
Think of the top down view as an actual paper map of the world hanging on the wall.
North is always up towards the ceiling, south is down towards the floor. East is always to your right and west is always to your left. 
Thanks, Czg 
You've made things so much clearer. 
One Bonus Comment 
Sometimes when you have a pair of doors they keep moving in the same direction, even though you've set different directions on each one. This is where you need to use the DONT_LINK spawnflag on the doors. You may also need to add a trigger_multiple to operate them to best effect. 
Thanks, Preach.

To use the DONT_LINK spawnflag, do I literally type "DONT_LINK" in the "spawnflags" field, or is there a number that I should use? (TrenchBroom doesn't let you select it from a set of options as far as I can see; the "spawnflags" field is simply empty, so one would need to know exactly what to type there). 
"spawnflags" is always a single number, it's the sum of the numbers corresponding to the flags you want. DONT_LINK=4

There are checkboxes in TB to set spawnflags (in both tb1 and tb2). Just under the key/value table. 
Oh, There It Is! 
It appears once you click on "spawnflags". Thanks, ericw, I could've sworn I'd seen those checkboxes before, but thought they might have disappeared since the alpha builds or since TB1.

Thank you for also explaining about spawnflags being the sum of the numbers you want. Always good to understand what's happening even when you're simply clicking checkboxes. 
The Lava Weapons... 
I added a "v_lava" to .fgd file, next I refresh the .fgd to TrrB, and the lava weapon looks weird; because appears with a lava nail in backside. When tested the map

I need to edit the model or something like that? 
Design Question 
I feel like the only way I've been making levels so far is by making interconnected rooms with monsters in it, a la Painkiller/D44M, and it's no fun both as a mapper and player.
Any ideas on how to make more organic-looking maps while having interesting level-design? Is there something like a tutorial around Doom/Quake-like level design?
I know the basic gist of it is making loops back to the main path for keys and others but for the real meat of things I have no real ideas on how to make a map interesting gameplay-wise. 
Door Angles, Part 3 
Think of the top down view as an actual paper map of the world hanging on the wall.
North is always up towards the ceiling

That would make north-east 315 degrees, wouldn't it? I tried to make a func_door move directly north-east when viewed from the top, like this: (that's not the func_door in question, of course; that's the default TB brush and is just for illustrative purposes).

So I set the angle at 315 degrees. However, in-game it moved north-west (at what I would have assumed to be 225 degrees).

So after some experimentation I stumbled across the angle that made the func_door move where I wanted it to move, which was 45 degrees.

Does that mean that in TrenchBroom, up is east? Or have I misunderstood something? 
The 360 Degree Circle Goes Counter Clockwise 
While mapping I discovered it looks good when
an eight shaped looped interconnection is changed with lifts at both ends make some a kind of moebius ring.

Now I'm trying an escher map relativity
and I can't see in nor outside anymore. 
Czg: Aaa, Ok. Thank You. 
And another question (sorry!), about setting the correct "lip" value:

I assume that if your func_door is made up of just one cuboid brush next to (or partly inside) another cuboid world brush, then "lip" is the number of Quake units of the func_door that sticks out of the world brush after it has opened. Is that correct?

Or is it calculated according to the size of your brush, so that e.g. a 32-unit-long brush with a "lip" value of eight will move 24 units?

What happens when the func_door moves diagonally? 
Or is it calculated according to the size of your brush, so that e.g. a 32-unit-long brush with a "lip" value of eight will move 24 units?
This is correct.

What happens when the func_door moves diagonally?
It tries to do the same thing, but it has some undefined behaviour that I don't really understand:
self.pos2 = self.pos1 + self.movedir*(fabs(self.movedir*self.size) - self.lip);
fabs is supposed to only operate on a single a float, but the result of vec3*vec3 is a vec3 I think? It does a per component multiply? Preach or someone will have to weigh in on this. I'm guessing it does the per component multiply, but fabs only returns the first non-zero component? This seems strange as hell to me.

Either way, the behavior with lip and diagonal movement is unpredictable, and I don't know anything except to just try different values until it looks right-ish. 
Either way, the behavior with lip and diagonal movement is unpredictable, and I don't know anything except to just try different values until it looks right-ish.

That's what I'll do in the mean time, then. 
Sv_startsound: Not Precached 
Hi, this is probably an amateur mistake but I was having trouble finding solutions with the ol' Google.

I'm trying to make it so that when a monster dies in my map, a light turns on and reveals the location of a key needed to unlock a door. Everything works smoothly (monster dies, light turns on, pick up key, light turns off) except that the sound doesn't play! Here's my entity setup in TrenchBroom.

As shown in the first picture, the game attempts to play the sound but fails because it isn't precached.

Does anyone here have any ideas as to how I might go about convincing the game to cache the sound, or if there's an error with my entity setup that's causing it to not cache?

The easy solution is to map for a mod like AD that contains an entity designed for playing arbitrary sounds when triggered, these will handle precaching the sound for you.

You're using a so-called "map hack" method; I'm not too familiar with them but there is a thread here about the topic:

It sounds like the fix may be to include some entity that normally plays misc/trigger1.wav, and make sure it is above the info_notnull in the .map file order (may require checking with a text editor) 
Thanks for the quick response! I am indeed using a "map hack", specifically an attempt at this one:

My map is very small and simple (it's my first map) and so I don't really want to expand its scope to include a mod like AD, but the solution of including an entity to convince the game to cache my sound was something I had in mind already.

Problem is, I have no idea what usually plays that sound! I mean, I'm familiar with the sound from my time playing quake, but i'm not sure which entity to use that will cache the sound.

At this point I am thinking of moving towards a different solution, having the game post a message to the player when the light turns on, but it would be nice to have a solution to this issue for future users of this forum... 
Yeah totally understand not wanting to expand the scope to a mod like AD.

Best bet is do a "find in files" on the QuakeC source for that wav. Here is a download link.

Turns out a trigger_multiple with "sounds" "3" set will precache misc/trigger1.wav. In fact, I think you can just create a trigger_multiple as a point entity with "sounds" "3" and a targetname, and triggering it will play the sound? If that works you can avoid the complexity of the map hack :) 
I decided to go with the "show a message to the player" route with this particular challenge, but thanks for helping to solve my problem all the same!
Back So Soon? 
Well, I had hoped I wouldn't be the very next person to come asking for help again, but here I am...

This time, it seems i've run into a bona-fide bug.
Here's the breakdown:

I'm trying to create an encounter with a shambler for the end of my map, and part of that involves having the lights black out for a moment as the shambler is revealed.
The first issue I had was that the textures I wanted to use for the lights were still "lit" when I switched the actual entities:

After a bit of headscratching, I came up with the solution of using two very fast door entities (99999 speed) to "switch" the brushes that had the lit and unlit versions of the texture on them.
This works great!

Except it doesn't.
Here's a breakdown of the two func_doors:

Normally, they're occupying the exact same space, but I split them up for that picture. Anyway, only SOME of them work properly!

Here's what happens ingame: (lights off) (lights on)

As far as I know, all of my brushes are identical, save for position in the map. But there are two of them that consistently don't appear with their lit versions!

I'm completely stumped on this, so any advice would be greatly appreciated. I can post the .map file if necessary. 
Never Mind... 
Despite spending a good half hour agonizing over the problem, I never thought to check the console in-game.

It turned out that the doors were coming up with an error about being "cross-linked" or something, so I set the "don't link" spawnflag and now...

Everything is fine.

Sorry for posting without checking something so obvious before! D: 
Vector Algebra 
The post nobody was waiting 48 hours for!

self.pos2 = self.pos1 + self.movedir*(fabs(self.movedir*self.size) - self.lip);

fabs is supposed to only operate on a single a float, but the result of vec3*vec3 is a vec3 I think? It does a per component multiply?

vec3*vec3 in quake performs the dot product. self.movedir is a unit vector (length 1), so the result is the length of the projection of self.size in the direction of motion.

To get an idea of what that does, we need to understand self.size as a vector. The easy definition is that it's the length/width/height of the axis-aligned bounding box containing the BSP object (bbox for the rest of the post). For projection, it's better to think of it as the vector going from the minimum corner of the bbox to the maximum.

When you project that onto an axis-aligned movedir, then it's easy to check that you just get the bbox length/width/height respectively. When it's any other angle, you can guarantee the following: if one corner of the object bbox exactly touches the wall, the other corner of the bbox will protrude from the wall by exactly lip units.

The usual issue with that guarantee is that doors moving at irregular angles are often built from rotated at the same angle. Crucially the bbox does not rotate, so you get a little empty space at each corner.

|� /
| /door

Figure 1: diagonal edge of the door leaves a gap with the orthogonal bbox

This has a double-whammy effect on how much the door protrudes. Firstly the lip only controls how far the empty space in the corner sticks out, the visible door will not stick out as far. Secondly, you tend to embed the opposite empty-space corner in the wall so that the visible brush is flush with it. This again reduces how much the door protrudes.

In conclusion, you need to add a bit to the lip value when the door is moving at an unusual angle. Try adding twice the thickness of the door as a rule of thumb, then adjust as necessary. 
When it's any other angle, you can guarantee the following: if one corner of the object bbox exactly touches the wall when the door is closed, the other corner of the bbox will protrude from the wall by exactly lip units after the door opens. 
vec3*vec3 in quake performs the dot product.
Holy shit I had no idea. I thought dot product just plain didn't exist in qc. 
Going Dotty 
Yeah, it's really neat. You have to do the cross product by hand though...

One handy trick you can do with the dot product is skip calls to vlen in some cases. For example, if you want to know whether the vector offset is greater than 70, you can use the test

offset * offset > 70 * 70

This works because the dot product of a vector with itself equals it's length squared, and the inequality still holds if you square both sides.

You can't use it everywhere - radius damage from an explosion uses the exact length of the vector in the damage calculation, so vlen is necessary. But where you just need to test if the length is bigger or smaller than a target value, then this trick works well. 
Ok, I Need Some More Help 
I seem to be doing everything right, and yet the results are still not what they should be.

I've made four func_door brushes, with angles set at 45, 135, 225 and 315 respectively, following the counterclockwise circle with 0 degrees = east and north being up like in a real-world map. Everything looks correct in-editor; when I select the individual brushes, they have little arrows that all point in the appropriate direction:
TB2 screenshot

When I compile and run the map, though, the 45 degree door and the 225 degree door do what they should, but the 135 and 315 degree doors move TOWARDS one another, and only by a few units.

I've tried so many different things and I keep getting bizarre results.

I've uploaded both the map file and the compiled bsp to quaketastic (I hope it's ok that I used it for this?). It's just a simple test map with only a box room, an info_player_start and four simple func_door brushes, as I wanted just to show the problem. If one or some of you could have a look at it and help me diagnose the problem I'd be very grateful...

It's at and it's called "" -- for some reason when I try to link to it directly like so:
it doesn't seem to work... 
That's very strange. I don't see why it would do that. I played around with it a bit also, but found no fix. One thing I did was set the angles to 0, 90, 180, and 270 and that worked exactly as you would expect. 
Some Math Explains It

Basically, the 45/225 doors calculate their movement lenght fairly correct, because their movement is parallell to the vector that stores the doors size, and when you adjust it with the lip it kinda looks correct.

The 135/315 doors though, their movement is perpendicular to the size vector, so the resulting dot product is zero. Subtract the lip and you get a net movement in the opposite direction of what you want!

The upside is then that you can use the lip to specify exactly how far you want it to move as long as you use a negative value.
Some simple trigonometry will let you calculate what distance it should move. (square root of width*width + height*height) 
design answer? 
Listen to Madfox. 
Thank you, that explains it very clearly. I have to admit that I find it hard to wrap my head around all of the maths, but it'll hopefully sink in at some point. And in the mean time I think I understand enough to (more or less) know what's going on with those doors and how to deal with it.

Rick, thanks for looking at it too.

And Preach, thank you for the earlier post (#16596), which I've read a few times by now and still don't fully understand, but it's certainly explained very clearly on your part. Those links also help a lot for someone like me who doesn't know what things like "dot product" are. As with czg's post, at some point it'll hopefully sink in. :) 
Nice pictures, what did you make 'em in? I was thinking of putting something up on my blog about this, but I didn't have a good way of making the diagrams.

I tried to think of a way round the problem with the perpendicular case. One idea would be to try a "size" vector going between a different pair of bbox corners. I think if you play around with it enough you discover that you need to negate the component of the size vector wherever the movedir component is negative. The following should be equivalent:

fabs(size_x * movedir_x) + fabs(size_y * movedir_y) + fabs(size_z * movedir_z)

Sadly we don't get to use the dot product feature in this version. 
If you did a fabs on each component of the movedir and size vectors you could just dot them and use that to multiply movedir with to get the final result.
We're just using the fabs of the result in the original algorithm as well, so doing abs before dot should work. I think? Ideally there should be a vabs function?

As for the pics, I first tried photoshop, but then I realized I don't know how to use photoshop, so I did it in Modo. Making the figures took like four minutes, then fifteen minutes for figuring out how to add the text in photoshop, and then another 20 minutes figuring out how to do the vertical lines between the series. I hate photoshop. 
I Hate MicroStation! 
Just FYI. 
More Door Trouble 
Is there something I'm missing here? I'm this close to finishing my map, but this one showstopper is really annoying me.

Here's a visual demonstration:

See how the columns don't raise up until the shambler is almost entirely revealed? That's not what they're supposed to do. They share a targetname with the big door, shown in these two images:

but as you can see in that short clip, they don't start moving at the same time as it.

To me, the worst part is the fact that at an earlier stage, before that area became quite as "scripted", they worked perfectly.

Now, it certainly seems like they're responding to the same targetname as the light textures (working well now, at least. The same ones I posted about earlier!), but they really shouldn't be.
Here's my setup for entities:

the super nailgun targets two trigger_relays
trigger_relay one has a 3.5 delay that is used to switch the lights and the column topper textures at the appropriate time
trigger_relay two has no delay and is used to start the descent of the big door and the ascent of the two columns.

Seems simple enough, but alas, it remains nonfunctional. At one point the doors were simply targeted directly by the supernailgun but I changed it to see if it made a difference (it didn't).

So, any advice? At this point, i'm starting to consider giving up and just letting players stand on the columns and get squished if they want... 
Door don't link? 
I swore I had tried that.

Why is door linking the bane of my existence?
And can someone please explain how the damn thing works? It's given me no end of trouble... 
I've been wondering, is there an IRC or other chat service room/channel that I can join for getting help with Quake mapping? I keep coming up with questions I want to ask, but I don't really want to clog up this thread with them. 
Ask Them Here. 
#terrafusion on quakenet
For TB questions come to #trenchbroom 
#terrafusion Is Really Not Mapping Help Though. 
It'll link doors if their bounding boxes touch.
Thing is, it is not smart enough to recognize anything other than doors that open in opposite directions and it 'fixes' doors it thinks are not opening in the right direction.

whenever you're working with doors in close proximity, just put door_dont_link on anyway. in some ways, it's better even for doors that would normally link because then both doors will emit a sound instead of just one. 
Can I Find A Source For Scor.qc, Grem.qc, Etc? 
I Need to make a new progs.dat with DOE & SOA features... 
Doors, Doors Doors... 
At this point I think it's safe to say that func_door is my favorite func_... except for func_msgboard!

This question's probably been asked before, but searching this thread is a real pain. It's also really short:

How do I suppress/replace the message that a door that requires a key shows?

Hopefully this is possible... 
Changing A Cvar Using A Trigger. 
I want to have a low gravity map like Ziggurat Vertigo, but unlike that map, I want it to be self contained. How do I change sv_gravity using a trigger? 
Only With A Mod 
Like hipnotic, Quoth or AD. 
Func_door has a message code that you can fill in as soon as the player reaches the door. It goes something like:

"classname" "func_door"
"message" "stop calling that key funtion"
.qc Files 
Can I put the .qc files directly to the progs.scr for combine mods in a progs.dat?

example: I add hipscor.qc and wrath.qc to a same progs.scr.

Also in monsters.qc is need to add their respective info? 
I have already tried that, all it seems to achieve is that both messages are sent to the player, with the custom one only visible in the console. :( 
The message key/string works for any door that requires external activation. However, you probably can't remove the default message for doors that require a key. It's part of doors.qc

It would be easy enough to change if you didn't mind having a custom progs.dat 
Oh, how I love hardcoded messages like that. I guess i'll just ditch keys and trigger the doors instead. Pity, really... 
Qc Files 
you can add several qc files to the prog.scr but chance will be there are strings that relay on eachother that prohibit the outcome of a progs.dat.

the compiler will send an error.txt or maybe in case if you're lucky not.
the missin pack qc are rather complex, I allready stumble in the usual one. 
Problem With Corrupted .MAP File In Trenchbrook 
I was building a house in Trenchbroom, and it became corrupted somehow. I'm wondering if there is a way to recover it? I've tried running the file in other map programs to no avail. Link to the map file is here: 
yeah you got a bunch of "nans" on some texcoords for some reason - grab a fixed file here (i've just zeroed the nans, so you have to redo the texcoords on the affected brushes) 
I'm pretty sure SleepwalkR would be grateful if you reported it as an issue on the TrenchBroom github page:

By the way, were you using Valve format (I can't tell from the map file you uploaded)? I ran into an issue with "nan" unexpectedly appearing in my texture coordinates; sounds like it may be the same issue: 
Ok, I get try to do it with careful.
In my case I using kurok, The files for the Progs.scr Needs to be in the same directory? Adding for example duck.qc to qc directory. 
Re: Problem With Corrupted Map File 
Thank you! SleepwalkR also provided me with a clean file. The problems seem to have occurred when I duplicated some brushes. I'll have to do some experiments to see why it did that. 
Qc 's 
The simplest way would be to add things like objects before the misc.qc and monsters after the ogre.qc. That's for the compiler you're using. Not had much trouble with it as long as the objects you're placing are standalone.

As soon as they become related to eachother, let's say the monster needs a weapon.qc tribute that isn't there you have to add it seperately.

I'm placing trees so I add a tree.qc just before the misc.qc and make sure ther's a tree.qc with the message for the corresponding tree.mdl.
Then it goes fine. 
But I edit the misc and weapons qc's for seperately? Or it creates the defintion in weapons.qc by default? 
I lost some ammo, I just need to study about qc? 
I add hipscor.qc and wrath.qc to a same progs.scr.

While doing that there are defs in both qc files that won't fit with eachother.

org duplicate definition ignored
Here you have a def of two shotgun types that can't go along with eachother so you have to hussle wich one does fit.
You can click on the green definition to show you where both definition misargue.

In this case you'll need to define new arguments for the TE_Explosion, ammu_shells1 rockets cells.

It's rather kinky stuff because as soon as you find the string another one starts calling.
I spend months to seek the head type the gremlin uses for the weapon change trick.
Couldn't find it as it is integrated throughout whole the code. 
which mod is wrath.qc from? 
Rogue AKA Shit 
Derp :P 
Qc'ss MF 
Hipmodel.qc Progs.scr Location 
in side of defs.qc or the side of items, world, misc.qc? 
Is not in progs.scr, so not... 
Then What Are You Watching? 
you downlaoded the hipnotic zip,
you unzip the,
you'll find the package with the progs.scr
if you read it with an editor it ends up with the hipnotics.qc entities.

That is if you have the 
Yes I Have It 
My progs.scr looks like this, but is not finished yet






tarbaby.qc // registered
hknight.qc // registered
fish.qc // registered
shalrath.qc // registered
enforcer.qc // registered
oldone.qc // registered2

Where I put the hipmodels.qc? 
You Already Did Half 
Be aware that the progs.scr is only the script that the compiler reads before starting compiling.

What I see is that you made a sommon of the qc files before knowing if they even will compare.

If you ask me where to put the hipmodels.qc you're already going with the hipgrem,hipscrge,hipsmisc,hipitems.

As you're not common with the qc files I would suggest first to compile the SoA progs.dat to see if the outcome goes well.
From there you can add new qc files to see what will happen. 
Shoot The Button Which Lowers "door/wall"? 
How do I do that?

What trigger type the button has to be, and what type the wall/door brush has to be. Door acts like platform/elevator but it lowers only ones and stays there (wait -1). I haven't figured it out yet. Hopefully someone is more experience with this subject? 
Toggle The Door 
The best option is to use a func_button, because it lets you use the button textures which change when the button is shot. func_button is quite simple to set up, you just need to set "target" with the same value as the "targetname" on the destination entity.

You got it right using a func_door for the moving wall. If you want it to move back up when you shoot the button again, Try applying the TOGGLE spawnflag to the func_door, and see if that helps. If you want it to close automatically after some time then set "wait" to a positive value. 
And for the button to be shootable it needs to have "health" set to some amount. Setting it to 1 is usually good unless you want the player to have to use a lot of ammo to "kill" it. 
Light Tool Crash 

I sealed my map to test vis times and so on, and suddenly my light tool started to crash!
I'm using ericw's tyrutils v0.15.5, I tested with the original tyrutils and there was no crash.

Here's some evidence, if it helps anyone:

The zip file includes two versions of my .map, one which is unsealed and doesn't crash, and one which is, and does crash. There are also pictures showing what I changed.

The pastebin is an example of my console output when running qbsp.exe and then light.exe. When it reaches the "2." point, light.exe crashes, as shown in that log.

Does anyone have any advice on how to fix this? I've tried sealing the map in various different ways around there, which has lead me to believe it is not that specific spot that causes the crash, but rather some issue with the sealed bsp as a whole. 
Once Again ... 
... we have found a lost soul.. So repent sinner, repent !! And read the Holy Quake Mapping Bible...

Hoped it helped :) 
I don't think that covers a complete crash of the light.exe 
For what it's worth, it worked for me. I'm not using the latest and greatest compiling programs on this computer though.

The 10 warnings from BSP are way more than I'd want to see.

TxQBSP 1.13 ( XT build 260513 ) -- Modified by Bengt Jardrup
-- Further mods by Baker, mh, rebb
-- Original Detail/Hint code by Alexander Malmberg <>

Outputfile: bad.bsp

------ LoadMapFile ------
17422 faces
2633 brushes (0 detail)

325 entities
102 miptex
2261 texinfo
WARNING: No valid wadfiles in worldmodel

Building hulls sequentially...
Processing hull 0...


------ MergeAll ------
5576 mergefaces

------ FinishBSPFile ------
WriteBSPFile: bad.bsp
6930 planes 138600
17617 vertexes 211404
8593 nodes 206232
2261 texinfo 90440
15092 faces 301840
11659 clipnodes 93272
4631 leafs 129668
19642 marksurfaces 39284
68937 surfedges 275748
35710 edges 142840
0 textures 0
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 36592

Skipped 0 surfaces
10 warnings
Elapsed time : 0:23.87
Peak memory used : 21.0 MB

---- light / TyrUtils ericw-v0.15.1 ----
running with 2 threads
BSP is version 29
Colored light entities detected: .lit output enabled.
325 entities read, 144 are lights.
Lighting Completed.

lightdatasize: 470313
7 switchable light styles
Writing BSP version 29
19.0 seconds elapsed 
It's Sorted Out 
Pritchard emailed me the bsp, it was indeed a crash bug in light.exe (tyrutils-ericw 0.15.5), will fix in the next update. 
I do wonder about those warnings. I ended up switching to the tyrutils qbsp rather than txqbsp, which a) makes the map compile a lot faster and b) gets rid of all of those errors.
Are they being suppressed, or is the tyrutils set just better at handling my shoddy brushwork?

Also, thanks again to ericw! He was really quick in replying to my emails. :) 
Anyone got any good resources for designing good monster fights? It can be hard to come up with something unique each time. 
Look At Good Maps 
With careful monster placement.

Anything by CZG is a good starting point. 
Start with Terra. 
Start with Terra. 
Sluggy Maps 
Seconding ijed. Sluggy's maps have the best combat pacing of anything I've seen in quake. 'Honey' being the high point imo. 
Honey Was Very Polished 
But Terra had more experiments I think - more weird stuff just being tried out for the hell of it.

Thinking some more, Negke's speedmaps are full of oddities as well that might help get you thinking about placement differently. 
Be sure to not forget a big final arena battle with at least three waves of monsters porting in because that's not been done to death yet. 
... the comment of the Beast! 
Help Me With Lights And Shadows? (Want To Get Proper Results**) 

Any good source information for advanced lighting and making shadows? I want to make really dramatic lighting to a iron bars, that shadows of bars shows really clearly on the other side.. simply just placing light entities right behind them doesn't do anything.. then I tried to capsule it inside two wall brushes that where attached to close to bar I wanted to focus on.. Light was weak and it wasn't long sharp, instead it tried to always be square (ball shape) maybe because it is spotlight and spotlights works that way.

What is the origin of the spotlight, is it the in middle of the entity box? Angle of the entity describes the direction where the light goes? What about light from top or bottom?

If I want to light get some help from temporary brushes I place around lights to give some wierd/interesting results.. is it possible to disable those brushes when the map starts? Does the effect of those brushes still exist, or will it not count them if using func_wall Toggle off for example?

Sky_texture reflects the light? If it possible to make it invisible too? How to actually use sky box to make shadows?

I'm really noob when it comes to quake lighting & shadows.. and I really want to learn how to make my upcomming map look good* I prefer using really dark/dramatic lights and dark corners but still having some contrast between scary/dark and playable/lighter areas without using too strong spotlights. I want to make lighting feel.. some what natural. 
Scourge Of Armagon 
Where can I download .ent file for Scourge of Armagon? 
First of all you need to specify which light compiler you are using as this greatly affects the type of lighting you can create in Quake. I think everywhere here would not hesitate in recommending EricW's tools ( ) as they can create fantastic results.

Most of the questions you are asking are answered in the docs for the tools above, and you can see visual examples on the page as well.

As for creating some cool shadows on vertical bars, a good starting point would be simply raising the light value of the light entity so that the shadows cast will reach further. Then for more advanced and natural looking effects you can start messing with the wait and delay values (combined with reducing the light value) to get the desired effect. 
hope here is what you need. 
fgd is no ent file 
yes :) need ent 
Func_door With Elevator Move Sound 

just wanted to make an elevator moving downwards - so i had to do it with a func_door moving down. No problem.

But func_door uses different sounds than the elevator. I selected the default sound for an elevator in the func_door. This works, but Quake says that the sound isn't precached and an error message occurs.

Is there a way to eleminate the error message and to precache the sound file while map loading? 
Just Place A Regular Func_plat Somewhere Else. 
Func_door With Elevator Move Sound *solved* 
... just so easy ;D

Thank you! 
(Thanks For Previous Answers + More Questions) 
Hi. Thanks for answering on those light/shadow and func_door/func_train questions.

Now I'm figuring out is there any way to set monsters tell the near monster that "I saw player, you wanna join the party?" & the answer is "yeah, sure!". Can monster give the other monster target or something?

Monster's that are flagged as "Ambush" doesn't receive that call but every other monster do, maybe? 
Twenty years making Quake maps and I actually don't know for certain how ambush works. I think it's all sight based.

"Ambush" means the monster must actually see the player for itself before it will begin attacking.

If not set as "Ambush" then the monster will begin attacking if it sees another monster has noticed the player.

Also, you can use "target" > "targetname" linking to activate a monster by the death of another monster. This also works with other entities such as buttons, items, triggers, etc. 
Reply #16677 
What are these attributes on enemy class:
deathtarget, angrytarget & target?

Is it possible to set "player" itself as a target, by giving it targetname or just using some certain name. I found only Quake 2 related article talking about combattarget/point_combat, not yet related to Q1.

I'm going to teleport enemies from the other location to the "combat area" but I want to be sure they attack the player immediate without seeing him. So is it possible to set attack player immediate? I'm using arcade dimension mod, but not sure about specs yet. 
Reply #16677 + More 
Also it's been a while now, and I haven't seen figured out how to make monsters teleportation without sound. Even if I check set trigger_teleport's flag "2" on aka. silent, then I set "noise" 0 and "volume" 0, I can still hear that whoosh~ sound effect from the info_teleport_destination's location where monster switched. In Trenchbroom's editor's entity interface info_teleport_destination doesn't have special attributes for sounds.

Especially when trying to make it surprise, that sound kind of ruins it totally. 
"What are these attributes on enemy class:
deathtarget, angrytarget & target? "

Those must be mod specific keys, because Quake only has "target". The names seem fairly self-explanatory, but you'll probably have to read the mod documentation for details. 
You want to set the following spawnflags on your monsters (from the AD readme):

spawnflag SPAWN_NOGFX = 32; // No spawn effect or sound
spawnflag SPAWN_DELAY = 64; // Will wait for trigger before spawning
spawnflag SPAWN_ANGRY = 128; // When spawning will be angry at the player

Also set a "targetname" and have something trigger the monster when you want it spawn in. 
Common Misconception 
Even if I check set trigger_teleport's flag "2" on aka. silent, then I set "noise" 0 and "volume" 0, I can still hear that whoosh~ sound effect from the info_teleport_destination's location where monster switched.

This is a common misconception, in fact almost everyone thinks this is what it does first time. ericw has explained how to get the effect you want, but I thought I'd explain what the trigger_teleport flag is for. It disables the ambient (looping) sound that you hear when you are getting near a teleporter pad. 
Big Thanks~ 
Thanks for letting me know about those common features and now everything seems working just fine* it is good thing that the interface in TB2 also has hint messages when hovering those flags. 
From reading ericw's post it sounds like AD can simply spawn monsters on demand. If so, this may be a better option for what you want to do instead of teleporting them in from somewhere else. 
How are the cool kids capturing for youtube upload nowadays?

Qc Details 
Look the screenshot

What I need to change in the value "other.items2"? In general what I need to change with the unknown values in the compiler?

(If qc is so hard to me, who knows about who can help me to doing a HUGE progs.dat 
I use Nvidia Shadowplay to capture game screens. I would probably use Bandicam, OBS, or the like if I used ATI.

Fraps always works but I find it to be so resource heavy. 
Qc Details 
you have to define/declare other.items2

there is no hipdefs.qc on your progs.src screens

or just put this
// have to use a new items flag because we ran out of bits in the original
.float items2;

inside your defs.qc (to the very bottom of the file) 
Textures In-The-Raw 
Much as I love a good google search, my efforts are proving fruitless for what I am hunting for. Does anyone know of a place to download all quake textures in a raw portable format such as png, jpg, tga, etc. 
TexMex Can Export To Jpg And Tga 
Just open wad, select all textures, then file -> export 
Ah, Great 
Easy sneezy 
oops, I removed that hipdefs.qc 
A small search for how to create ent files for quake ended here
Why Enemies Didn't Get Hurt By Gas/poison/fire, If They're Not Angry? 
I use Arcade Dimension mod, using quakespasm engine. I made gas trap and placed the enemy near to it, let assume it is fixing it or something. I use button to activate it, trap starts shooting its gas/poison/fire but enemy doesn't get hurt, how to deal in this situation? I also used button that can be fired by shooting it, enemy reacts to a noise and turns around and dies to that trap. 
Big Problem 
I've found that MHColouredLight(light.exe) does NOT work under win98se ! @#gulp#@

error: light.exe requires newer Windows version

Other light.exe(with colour) ?

Really you are gonna post that?

And if your only computer is a Windows 98 computer ... don't you think you have more pressing problems than whether or not MHColorLight will run on it. 
Sv_touchlinks: Next != L-Next 

Fitzquake only problem? 
Sv_touchlinks: Next != L-Next

Well, I had to go back five revisions before I found a copy of the map where that odd message doesn't pop up.

It looks like it started when a specific door was added or the direction it opened was changed. What's really strange is that the message appears when I touch the trigger for a completely different door which has been in the map and working fine for years.

Another funny thing is that it doesn't happen every time. I can reload the map and go through the exact the same way and about half the time there's no message.

I'm pretty sure I've never run across this before. If it actually is just a Fitzquake bug, I wonder if I should just ignore it. 
I think it's an engine bug; there are some details here (sounds like you can trigger it in vanilla quake): 
If I recall, that error occurs whenever you have two touching doors with one checked to "Don't link" and the other not. 
After more checking it looks like it was changing the direction the new door moved that caused the sv_touchlinks message. I can live with that door moving up/down instead of sideways if necessary. It isn't really needed at all, it was only added to make an encounter a bit more interesting.

If I recall, that error occurs whenever you have two touching doors with one checked to "Don't link" and the other not.

I'll go back and look at this. The door that was added does indeed touch the pre-existing door which now causes the message when triggered. I normally check "door don't link" without thinking, but maybe I left one unchecked. The new door needs to move, but the older one just needs to go away. It could easily be a func_wall that gets killed. 
Btw this might be a Fitzquake 0.85 only bug, or at least you might get a different message in other engines. I would at least check quakespasm to compare 
Though a question: aside from the message do you get any broken behavior? 
Okay, I was wrong. Changed the older door to a func wall and gave it a new name and brand new trigger_once killtarget. Now neither of those doors have a connection to the trigger that's generating the sv_touchlinks message. And the message is still appearing. 
About Win98 
<BAKER> Obviously I have a "modern" pc too but I usually map on my Pentium2 at least for Quake.

So I really don't understand why mh-light.exe does not run on win98.. some ideas ?

Are there any colored-light.exe that could work ? 
It probably has a trivial dependency on the Windows API that wasn't available in Windows 98 or requires a .dll that isn't available/can't be available on Windows 98.

It is really hard to compile something to ensure it works on an old platform that isn't used by an appreciable number of people.

I don't know when mh-light was compiled, probably in 2010 or 2011, but even 10 years ago Windows 98 was pretty scarce.

It is almost impossible to compile an executable today that would work on Windows 98 unless someone used tools of that era (i.e. Visual Studio 6) and tested it specifically on Windows 98 and almost no developer is going to have a such an old machine. 
I'm pretty certain I've found the problem.


// entity 2025
"classname" "info_notnull"
"targetname" "NoMoreDoors"
"target" "SewerGate"
"use" "trigger_once"
// brush 0

Since it wasn't either of the doors, I looked at the other things fired by the trigger that was causing the message. The one above was added about the same time as the doors.

It's one of those "triggerable triggers" made from an info_notnull brush. I have no idea why it causes the problem. I have three more of those that have been in the map for years and they never did it.

I deleted it and was then able to start and restart Fitzquake and the map and reload the map multiple times and could not get the trigger to give that message.

Now I just have to figure out some other way of doing what the info_notnull trigger was doing. 
That makes sense now. FYI, the engine keeps a list of touchable entities. The bug you're seeing comes when the list is changed at an unexpected time. Creating a new trigger (using trigger_once spawn function) probably causes it to be added to the list. Not sure if there's a better or different way to do what you're trying to do. 
Well, I haven't totally given up on it, but I'll leave it out for now. After all, there are three other "triggerable triggers" made from info_notnulls in the map that don't fire that message.

I was using it to open a door. The door is accessible very early, but not openable. After the player travels a long path around the map they would eventually pass the door again, at which time the trigger would fire and the door would open.

I can probably do something similar with a spikeshooter logic gate or a hidden button that's revealed just before the player arrives from their trip around the map. 
I got the door working just the way I wanted using a simple logic gate. I was able to use an existing func_wall as the blocker, so all I had to add was the shooter and a button.

That leaves 2 models I could add before Fitzquake will complain that 256 models exceeds the standard limit of 256 (lol). 
Off By 1 
That leaves 2 models I could add before Fitzquake will complain that 256 models exceeds the standard limit of 256 (lol).

That's an off-by-one error, but the incorrect part is the standard limit, which should be 255 models. A single byte can store 256 values, but the value 0 represents "no model", so one less slot for actual models.

It's also important to remember that the world itself occupies a model slot, so you're down to 254 useful model precaches. If you want to see some tricks on how to reduce the number of models you use, drop me an e-mail and we can work something out. 
I figured as much, but I didn't actually count the models.

In an out of the way area of the map, not visible to the player, I added tiny func_walls until I hit the limit, then removed one.

Every time I add a real model, I remove one of the dummies.

I don't think I'll be needing to reduce the current model count. The map is better than 99% done and I'm just about sick and tired of looking at it.

Considering that I want the map to stay within the standard Quake engine limits, there's really not much more I can do at this point. Lighting, monster placement, and texture tweaks is about all I'll be doing from this point on. 
Qc Sad 
I don't know how to fix and do strings an all about qc, so my second plan is do a barter.
Which forum can I visit to do a barter? 
Music For A Map <=> Custom Progs.dat 
Thanks Bloughsburgh 
Anybody Seen Any Good Wood Textures Lately? 
I have a lot of wood floors in my map. The id textures are okay, but don't look that great when tiled over large areas. I tried to make my own, but I'm not real happy with the result. 
From Hexen 2 
I done 4 buttons, all 4 targets a trigger_counter that activates a secret, but when I tested the map with message the counter just worked with 2 of the 4 buttons.
I lost a value or something? Or is the hipnotic progs.dat?... 
I Love To Count 
Yeah, you need to specify how many times the trigger_counter must be activated by setting the "count" value - in this case set it to 4. If you forget to set it then it defaults to 2, explaining what you saw in your map. 
Thanks, Preach 
very useful for now and the future 
Well, I was looking for something like wizwood1_8 except 128x128. About that color and about that simple. I've found a few that could probably be made to work, but that's something I was hoping to avoid. 
What I Did 
Was take a stock ID texture and duplicate it four times, then add a bit of variation to break up the tile in the middle of the 128 texture. Clone stamp and offset tools in CS3 :D

Even ended up doing quite a few blends and platform game style tiles of paths and stuff. 
What I Did 
Was take a stock ID texture and duplicate it four times, then add a bit of variation to break up the tile in the middle of the 128 texture. Clone stamp and offset tools in CS3 :D

Even ended up doing quite a few blends and platform game style tiles of paths and stuff. 
What Ijed Did 
Was take a post and duplicate it. 
Thats What I Did 
What I Did Indeed Do 
Warning 19 
Hello Guys I just started a map for the Jam 7 but I'm getting a warning, and I want to understand it.

the warning is:
"No entities in empty space -- no filling performed"

and online I found this explanation for it:
" Normally caused by not having at least one entity that is positioned far enough from solid
brushes. Move one of the entities further away from all walls. "

but I don't understand why would I need a entity in empty space.

Also hope I can finish a map this time, last jam I got too busy and gave up, this time I will try to finish the map even if I go over the deadline. 
Do you have at least one entity somewhere inside the map? 
I have lights, player, items. 
qbsp deletes parts of your map that are in the void, that's the "filling" step. It uses entities to know which side of your map is in the void and which is the interior, and also so if there's a leak, it can give you a pointfile showing the path from the void to an entity.

Move one of the entities further away from all walls.
The filling also happens on hull1 and hull2 (the expanded collision hulls), so after brushes are expanded, if all entities are covered up you'll get that warning. 
ok so, let me see if I understand, I dont need anything outside on the void? this warning is basically saying "nothing is leaking".

when I put something outside then I get the warning

"WARNING 10: Reached occupant at (288 288 1260), no filling performed."

Right, you don't want entities in the void.. the "Reached occupant" message means "you have a leak".

Still weird that you were getting that other warning in the first place. The "empty space" in the other warning is referring to the playable area of the map. Is it possible all entities were near walls? Try adding a light in the center of a room maybe. 
Ok, the room I made is kinda small and crowded so yes everything was near a wall.

So I made a very large box around the room and placed a light somewhere far from a wall, and the warning did went away :)

interesting so it got confused by everything being closed to a wall or its actually bad that I made everything close to a wall?

Entities are either points or models. The ones that are models have a "bounding box". The editor should show the box, which varies in size but most are 32x32x64. The outsides of the boxes need to be spaced away from walls, floors and ceilings. Usually 8 to 16 units are enough. 
Just raise your info_player_start up a bit until it doesn't get gobbled up by hull expansions.

I've never had this issue and typically I'll be mapping for a long time with literally nothing but an info_player_start in the map. 
The player was the only one touching the ground everything else is very near a wall, but not touching it.

I raised the info player just a little bit and the warning went away... So the info player should not touch the ground...

thanks :) 
the enemy I have on the room is touching the ground and no warning but if the info player touches the ground I get the warning. hummm I will give every entity some space.

Thanks this was really helpful !!! 
Even if the enemy causes no warning, it could be stuck in the ground or wall and unable to move when the map is played. Also, items can "fall out of the map" if too close to the floor. 
yeah thats a good reason, I will give everything some space to avoid bugs and stuff, with other things like doors thats pretty much impossible but with every entity that I can I will do it.

Thanks for the tips :) 
(Quoth Mod) Misc_boxes "no Spawn Function For" 

I'm having issues when trying to place some bio/plasma/normal exploding boxes. None of them seems to have spawnflags attribute, so that must be the reason why my quakespasm console says that "No Spawn Function For:" for every explo box.

Maybe Quoth places them differently? 
Map Freezes To One Door

What to do? Do I really always need to make geometry from the very beginning? 
No Spawn Function 
That's basically Quakespasm saying it doesn't know what those entities are. Make sure you're starting it with the correct command line -game switch:

quakespasm.exe -game quoth

...or whatever the mod makers say to use. 
Also make sure that the classname is spelt correctly, and that it's all in lower-case.

The quoth specific ones are:


The standard ones haven't changed name:


Try one of the standard ones, and even if you don't load the Quoth mod they should work. 
can I add a "target" and a "killtarget" to a same trigger? 
i don't think so, due to a bug in the original progs.dat 
Both Target And Killtarget 
It's on my mental list of things to not do when editing Quake, so at some time I must have been unsuccessful trying it. What I do is add a trigger_relay with the same targetname and have it do the killtarget. 
Fun Fact 
If you fix that bug, then e4m2 starts getting glitchy behaviour. Nothing game-breaking, but you get a message that you've leaving without an important the very point that you pick it up! Ah, compatibility issues. 
This Is Starting To Get Really Annoying..

I was like normally shooting inside in almost perfect cube and this happened. And that happened when using Quakespasm engine (the latest one also).

I tried to try out fitzquake but it didn't run on my windows 10 computer or something "this application stopped working"

I had darkplaces downloaded and tried that one, and it played out without this wierd stuck on floor bug/issue. But the gun kept shivering while moving, and I don't know why.

I'm using quoth mod for this specific jam map.

I tried out also map without quoth mod and using quakespasm.. and it seems that because there is no enemies "executioner (plasma gun soldier) or bob" I haven't been able to redo that bug.

Does it have to do something with physics? Because level layout is as solid as it could be and I'm sure about that. Because I have made more complex maps during my free-time and using AD mod having no such issues. I really hope there is something I could do to make this never happen or be possible. 
Two questions:

1) Which editor are you using to make the map?

2) Can you save the game after the bug occurs and upload the save file somewhere?

Using the latter I can check if you still have a trigger which is removing all the entities. 
I send you mail, I'm having still issues with that spawn bug. 
We need a plan b for the attachments... 
Are you still having trouble with all the entities getting removed? I sent you an e-mail yesterday but not heard back... 
After a while I couldn't reproduce that bug. Right when I removed killtarget fields and even replaced enemies by new ones - I received that same issue.

I switched to Ad mod and mapped about 2-3 days, and just a moment ago switched to quoth mod and couldn't get that bug anymore. So it seems everything works fine now.

Thank you for helping me to get over this issue. 
What is the right way to start with Axe only?
"info_command_spawn" with "give s 0" is ok? Or there is a more elegant way? 
Item Control 
Quoth doesn't specifically add support for changing the starting items on the player. What you've discovered there does have the desired effect most of the time, but it is a cheat command. Some engines (e.g. darkplaces) don't allow cheats unless "sv_cheats 1" is set before the map starts.

That's non-trivial to work around; because "sv_cheats 1" needs to be set prior to the map loading you can't just add it to the info_command_spawn string. If there's a skill select map before your map, then you could replace the trigger_changelevel trigger to your map with an trigger_command which performs "sv_cheats 1;map jam7_khreathor".

Bit of a shame it has this complication. Otherwise it is a neat way of doing it, and it would generalise to giving the player any combination of starting weapons/ammo without having to drop them on the spawn point which we saw before was perilous
Maybe it's safer to use "BackpackTouch" with ammo_shells -25? I just don't know if there is an option to disable a pickup sound. Secondly you always advise to not use hacks in Quoth for future compatibility, that's why I wanted to get some "legit" way :) 
That's Worse 
Already had some backpack hacks that broke, much less safe. Some things just aren't supported...

Is there really a need to remove those 25 shells? If you give the player a hammer and don't give them any more ammo or weapons, most of them will see it as the better option... 
I will rethink this. I have few enemies at the beginning and I want to kill them with enviro. That means player should not be able to kill them. But I can always place invisible walls, func_togglewall or something.
I like info_logic_inopen/insolid. Already used it for more complex doors and I have another crazy idea :D Just want to make sure everything is "hackless" and 100% legit with Quoth. 
Sounds Exciting 
You'll think of something khreathor, looking forward to playing! 
Spawning Health And Ammo 
There is no option to spawn health and ammo, like you can do with enemies? I just want to be sure, I have some workaround already ;)
I know you can respawn health/ammo in Quoth, but it would be cool to have this items invisible until triggered.

Btw. It would be cool to have info_multispawn generating enemies dynamically. Now when you set count to 100, it will add them to final monster count, so if you spawn only 5, rest of them will count as a not killed enemies. I guess it's not a trivial task to program. 
You Can Probably Do A Notnull Hack 
Preach, you've shown before how any info_notnull could be turned into a custom ammo/health/armor. Can it be combined with the triggerable trigger hack to create spawnable goodies? 
Ahh you probably don't follow our conversation :) I want to make hackles map, with entities supported by Quoth. In Quoth you can set health/ammo to respawn in MP-like style. What I would need is spawning on demand.
I did few ammo hacks, for example stealing ammo from a player. I think spawning ammo should be doable through notnull, but as I said, I'm looking for some legit solution :)
Now I'm just using invisible lift with quoth's respawn option :P 
Invisible lift with health on top, to be precise. 
It's Possible 
The current accepted way to do it in Quoth is to use an <a href=">info_hordespawn</a>. Set both "spawnclassname" and "spawnfunction" to the classname of the item you want to spawn. This will be supported in future versions of Quoth.

And yes, we know it's a bit clunky, the next version of Quoth will have much better support. 
That Should Have Been... 
The current accepted way to do it in Quoth is to use an info_hordespawn 
It Works! 
I totally didn't thought too put there other classname than enemy ones. 
New Portal Was Clipped Away In CutNodePortals_r Near 
What is the technical reason behind this warning?

I suspect it is this, though perhaps Tyrann, ericw, Baker, or Preach (the coding gurus I know of on here) could correct me. When the map is portalized, it gets sliced into 3d volumes called leaves (leafs?). Each leaf is then used for the vis calculation to know what gets drawn. I suspect that this warning occurs when you have the intersection of multiple generated leaves such that the intersection forms a new leaf out in the middle of empty space with nothing in it.

Is this correct? 
First time I saw this warning was when I used a polygon to clip out another one.
I think it has to do with the way the map is divided into leafs.
I'm not a binair but I think it is a warning one of the vertices is openend for another space. 
I've been googling the past hour off n on and can't find the engine console code to do that. 
Whenever I see that error I usually just move or change some brushes near the error message coordinates. Usually that will fix it. But not always. Sometimes with complex brushwork I've had to convert parts into a func_wall.

On the other hand, it's just a warning. Most of the time it's hard to find any actual problems that it's causing. 
@madfox, that sreenshot doesn't show the leafs, that's just "r_showtris 1". To see the leafs you need to use darkplaces and "r_drawportals 1", or some editors can load the .PRT files.

When the map is portalized, it gets sliced into 3d volumes called leaves (leafs?).

Portalization is about reconstructing polygons that are the "portals" between adjacent leafs. This happens after the BSP tree is built, so the map is already sliced into leafs at that point.

My understanding of that warning is, the BSP tree structure indicates that there should be a portal here, but the clipping process (which is not exact) used to reconstruct the portal ends up clipping away the entire thing. So it probably is a very small scale error that you can ignore. I'm not totally sure though. 
The Biggest Trouble 
In fte quakec development suite I'm compiling my famous progs.dat, I almost so ignorant about that theme, so my first solution was delete all qc's than I'm not using, as grapple.qc, hipdecoy.qc, holes.qc, etc. But every time compiling with hipitems.qc, mult_wpn.qc and more qc's, the holy TE_EXPLOSION have an error I don't know how to solve... 
Clipped Portal 
As I remember it's pretty much what Eric says - a portal somehow ended up inside a leaf and therefore got removed. It's similar to 'leaf portals saw into leaf' and has no or marginal negative consequences.

Probably shouldn't even be a warning, just an 'info'.

Jonison - the files you deleted are still being told to compile by the list in progs.src.

Even if you remove them from there, most likely there are references in the rest of the code as well - see what the compiler complains about and then comment out /* */ the references one by one. 
It Worked! 
I am adding /* */ to all errors, but to ALL qc fails of the progs.scr? 
You could, but you're removing lots of code there - things will stop working.

I meant remove the files you deleted from src (so it doesn't try and compile things that don't exist) and then comment within the qc files anything that has dependencies elsewhere.

It's a surgical job - you can comment out entire files, or just odds and sods within them. 
there are a lot of console calls, I'm just thinking of developemode. Is there a start before other console notes work? 
Ok Ijed 
Teleports When Falling 
Is there a way around this?

I had "safety nets" as trigger_teleports at the bottom of the map in case of player falls. The ranger just falls right through the trigger. Everything is linked as it should. Is this a known issue or is there a workaround for this? 
Having said trigger_teleports with targetnames renders them to only shoot off when triggered. I was hoping I could kill them off as map progress happened. Oh well! 
How about adding an overlapping trigger_multiple which activates the teleporter when the player touches it? 
Quoth-based Suggestion 
Alternatively, if you're using Quoth, you could use the targetname2 field to name the trigger_teleport, which won't change the behaviour of the trigger but will enable you to killtarget it. 
Preach Strikes Again 
That is exactly what I did last night, I just didn't want to triple post haha. That is what happens after "jamming" for many hours in one sitting I guess! The trigger_multiple works perfectly and since they area already in place, I'll just keep it that way.

It is nice to know someone would have came up with the solution if my brain didn't' attempt one final push last night! 
Another One 
Any way to killtarget a func_illusionary?

Want to pass through a transparent field that "turns off". I have the transparent field as a func_illusionary so I can pass through it.

I have a work around that uses a func_wall and the kill trigger is just a few units before passing through the field. At this point, I am just curious. 
Method In Quoth 
In Quoth, you can change the classname to mapobject_custom and it should work the same but with the ability to killtarget it. 
You Monster 
Again, questions asked. Thank you, it is much easier than to do the func_wall hack.

Okay, on a roll another one:

Kill a play_sound? I searched and found to toggle a sound by playing a null.wav on the same channel, but what about flat out ending the sound.


Object emits a sound, if you pass through it the sound will stop. There would be multiple instances of this object throughout the map. If this can't be done it is not a big to do, I can work without it. 
Undocumented Feature 
What you need is a feature of play_sound_triggered which wasn't written up in the tutorial (until just now!). You need to set spawnflag 1 to make the sound toggle. You also need to set a wait value, so note the workaround in the article if you are using a sound file which loops by itself. 
Thanks Preach, that worked. Another hurdle I found is I need to trigger those sounds when semi-close to the source or it will cease to play. I remember that issue with the waterfalls way back when.

Easily done though. 
Fitzquakez Issue 
Hoping it fits in this topic.. I have to say that all Fitzquakes do not work with Minigl 3dfx drivers .
I need that because I play Quake on a rather old pc and need those extra-frames ! 
N00b Question 
Hey there, I'm currently finally learning how to map thanks to the awesomely user-friendly program that is Trenchbroom and I'm having trouble using Necros' compiling GUI. I've set my working folder to trenchbroom\maps and my output folder to quakespasm\id1\maps but when I compile a map, it stays in my working folder and isn't copied to my output folder, which prevents me from testing it right away. I have to copy the bsp into my game folder, run the game and then load the map all manually, which hampers my productivity and makes trial-and-error quite a chore. What am I missing? 
Did you specify your map file in the working folder? I don't have the program open right now but you need to tell the GUI the actual map file you are using as well...not just the path to where the map is located. 
Source Map 
It is under the source map section of the GUI, below the LIGHT section. 
Yes, the map name is specified in the source map section. 
Maybe check permissions on the map path?

Could you share a screenshot of your GUI setup? I can't pinpoint an obvious issue. 
Check permissions on the map path? I don't quite get what that means or where to look. I'm no computer whiz and I need things to be user-friendly. Also, currently my only internet is on my phone so it would be difficult to share screenshots. 
I think since Quake writes save games into its own folder that pretty much anything else should have access also. 
Also, could you just use the maps folder for the .map files in the first place? That's how I've always done it. Well, sort of. 
Maybe It's Not Copying It Because It Fails Vis Or Light? 
Copying to output destination is final step, maybe when it fails one of the previous steps, it never executes copy command and bsp stays in working directory?
Just a guess... 
No, no step failed AFAIK. Anyway, I uninstalled Trenchbroom, cleaned my registry of all TB entries, made another clean install of Quakespasm at the system root with only the engine and the pak files, reinstalled TB, Tyrutils and the GUI and now it works like a charm. Don't know exactly what happened but I'm suspecting that a mod screwed my previous QS install because I was also getting odd crashes when playing. Now on to mapping! Thank you guys for your replies. 
If On Windows 
Run as admin. J.A.C.K is known for not compiling properly without admin rights set. 
Wait I've Got It 
J.A.C.K. = Juicy Arsed Cock Knights ? 
If you run into the issue again, and can reproduce it, I would appreciate a bug report. The compilation feature is still new and I wouldn't be surprised if there are problems with it.

Thanks for using TB. 
@Qmaster Thanks but I'm using Trenchbroom, not J.A.C.K. (boy, this new name for Jackhammer is really way too reminiscent of Contract J.A.C.K. - to the point that one has to wonder if it's on purpose). Plus I'm still on good ol' WinXP so I don't have this admin issue.

@SleepwalkR Will do, but I'm fairly positive it was a mod issue. Also, as I said I've used Tyrutils & Necros' GUI to compile. I wasn't aware you had implemented a built-in compiler. I'm using an old version of TB that's been sitting on my HD for a while. Yeah I know, I should upgrade...

I did encounter a strange bug though: I've tried to tweak a light with a color parameter but I didn't know my shit and I input a value without knowing if it was valid or not. It didn't work so I deleted that light but it must have done something to my map because after that, each time I compiled in Necros' GUI it created a .lit file along with the .bsp that wrecked my lighting in the whole map. I had to go back to a previous autosave (thanks for this feature BTW, I didn't feel like starting this map over from scratch) to get things in order again.

Besides that, your program rocks, it's just awesome! I've tried using WC or Radiant back in the day but I was put off by the complexity of the tools. TB is really super intuitive and after 20 years, I'm finally making a map that contains more than one empty room! One thing though: as others have noted, I'd really like to be able to use traditional FPS controls to move around in my map, using mouse scroll is pretty weird and just not as handy. Speaking of mouse scroll, it would be cool if we could use the mouse wheel when in the texture manager instead of having to drag the scroll bar. BTW, is there a way to export my prefabs for later use? I didn't see any option for that in the menus.

@everyone here: is there somewhere on the net some kind of repository of usable prefabs under CC/GPL? Stuff like doors, teleporters, staircases etc... that I could use and/or modify without having to build them from scratch? Especially doors since I'm still getting used to building architecture and haven't wrapped my head around using triggers yet. 
Also, how do I make a directional spotlight? All my light sources are diffuse by default and I don't know the variable parameters. I've been looking for a comprehensive Trenchbroom tutorial but to no avail. Even the official documentation is more of a beginner's guide than anything, it doesn't delve into the specifics. 
You Should Really Upgrade 
That's The Plan 
Yeah, I've just DL'ed the latest build. I was actually using the "last stable build", v1.16. I remember picking that one precisely because of "last stable"... I've always been wary of betas. Judging by your reply, I guess the new version will answer most of my questions. Do I need to uninstall the previous first or can I overwrite?

What about the prefab repository? I did find one with pretty cool stuff over at Quaddicted but the links to the files seem to be dead... 
Don't Overwrite It 
And no support for prefabs atm. 
So I couldn't wait for your reply and installed the latest build (and before you ask, I did NOT overwrite) but it doesn't work. Something about TB not being able to find a GetThreadId entry point in kernel32.dll (not sure if the wording is accurate, I translated the error message from french). This version DOES support WinXP, right? That's what your website says.

@the anonymous person above who thinks an IP makes a good alias Yes, than you very much, that's really helpful. Jeez... That's how I found the page with non-functioning links BTW. Asking you guys is not about laziness to do the research myself, it's about getting valuable advice from the masters of the trade. I guess I won't get that from you. Anybody else? 
And you had to post that twice? Wow, that's dedication in uselessness! 
Those 2 posts were spam posts, not someone telling you to use Google.

We get them from time to time. 
Oh, OK, my bad then. They weren't flagged as spam and I've noticed people here sometimes reply with titles only. 
It should work, but it's no longer officially supported since it's discontinued by MS. I test all releases under Windows 7. 
Please File A Bug On Github. 
If it's easy to bring back XP support I'll do it. But I doubt it. 
Is there some reason why you can't just switch to Windows 7? It's really the only decent version of Windows. 
@SleepwalkR Will do but if it's too much work you don't need to go the extra mile for little ol' me. It's a matter of weeks anyway before I upgrade to 7. I've been waiting to get a new HDD (or possibly a SSD) to make the switch. In the meantime, I'll test earlier builds. Worst case scenario, I'll have to make do with v1.16 until then. No biggie, I can still get acquainted to the methodology of mapping.

@Rick Like I was just saying to SleepwalkR, I will have to eventually, and soon. It's not like M$ are giving me a choice recently, anyway... But though 7 is good, so has XP been for a loooong time. I was perfectly fine with it and thanks to the continuous support of the OS by the developers concurrently to 7, I didn't feel the need to learn a new one just because. Why change what works, right? 
By The Way... 
"And no support for prefabs atm." This means it's gonna come eventually? How soon do you think it will be?

Oh well, I suppose it's still possible to kinda save/load prefabs if I store them in a .map, make copies of it and load one to build a new map, and when I'm done I can delete the prefabs from the map to leave only the actual map. 
When I Get To It 
Can't get any more specific than that. 
Fair Enough 
A quick question regarding some acrobatics I'm setting in the map I'm working on: how high can the player jump? I've tried googling the info but all I get are references to rocket/strafe jumping and that's not what I need. 
Really Quick And Bad Test 
I just made some quick tests in Trenchbroom and I could jump up to a pillar that was 43 units high, starting pressed right up against it and holding W.
Very scientific, I know. 
Thanks Pritchard. There should be some sort of list gathering this kind of info, very useful for game design. 
It is true there isn't a one stop place in terms of documentation but I will share with you some places I used to learn a lot of stuff:

And honestly, click "ALL" for this mapping thread...wait for it to load and then do a "find" on the topic you are asking about. Chances are, it has already been asked at some point!

Good luck! 
Thanks Bloughsburg. It can be a tough job sorting through all the bits and pieces scattered here and there to find THE thing that you need. Sometimes it's a lot easier and faster to just ask straight up. Kudos for the links, I'm sure they're gonna be tons of help. 
I understand what you mean, I was intially frustrated by the scavenger hunt one has to follow. At the same time, future mods and such are updated quite well.

In terms of AD or Quoth one just has to look at the entity definition file or a dedicated website tutorial for the latter.

If you need assistance, don't hesitate to ask and we will try to help you. Always nice to see new potential mappers! 
Time For A Question Of My Own... 
I'm not very hopeful with this one, to be honest. It seems like everything in Quake obscures monster vision.

Basically, is there a way to make the quoth func_breakable "invisible" to monsters? I want an eddie to be able to shoot at the player through the windows of a room he's in, but of course he won't since he thinks they're solid walls.

I'm pretty confident this can't be helped, but I'd love to be proven otherwise. 
Make A Func_illusionary 
You're Out Of Luck 
AD can do this just fine, but then you don't have an Eddie. 
Just Try It. 
with func illusionaries/trigger_once and health set on them/killtargeting alpha func_walls and some clever scripting which is prone to breaking for speedrunners and the like.
But i'm sure it can be done even in quoth. 
What's with everybody and their aunts adding Edies in their maps? The dude belongs in Q2, he doesn't fit at all in Q1 IMHO, not even in base maps. Quoth's lovecraftian monsters do, but they seriously need to be better animated. 
I like to use him as a mini-boss or key guardian. He fits well if you imagine the enforcer's and grunts engineering a secret weapon or so. Anything can fit if you build the story.

What I like about Eddie is that he can fit not only in Base but also otherworldly maps. 
is a weird enemy, can't say I am too fond of him. 
It's true he's a tough opponent, I just wish he got a more suitable design that doesn't make me think I'm suddenly fighting Stroggs. BTW, it's Edie with one D, like the character in Iron Maiden cover artworks - his red optical device comes straight from Stranger in a Strange Land.

@Preach Yeah, I don't feel like these two look very quakey either. I'm more for full-on lovecraftian. If I get good enough at mapping, I'm thinking about making a full mod that would go this way rather than cyber. 
I'll admit that Ol' Ed is more "strogg" than many Quake monsters, but to me that seems preferable to including Shamblers or other enemies of that kind when making a base or otherwise "futuristic" map.

Besides, gore/horror is not exactly new to that theme. The Grunt is not obviously mutilated, but his texture has a decent amount of blood spatter and his lore claims that he's a mind-controlled drone of sorts.

Anyway, about that func_illusionary... 
The thing is that Quake's a very broad church, and if you have very specific ideas about what you like, you shouldn't be surprised if people fail to conform to it. 
Well, i guess my other post beforehand vanished into the ether.

I'll simplify it anyway. Is there any way to remove a func_illusionary? I tried giving it a targetname and killtargeting or targetting it, to no avail... 
func_illusionary is converted to a static entity when the map loads, so it can't be killtargeted. 
Yet another roadblock :( are there any other brushes that monsters can see through? 
"that seems preferable to including Shamblers or other enemies of that kind when making a base or otherwise "futuristic" map." I beg to differ. Since base maps are overrun by Shub's forces who teleported in, all of the Quake bestiary can fit in. Granted, Shamblers are supposed to be some kind of high ranking officers in Shub's army and generals usually send cannon fodder on the frontline instead of going themselves, but base theme was designed to be used only as the starting point of an episode. We should move this discussion elsewhere, we're cluttering the thread with off-topic. 
You can use a func_illusionary and then change its classname to mapobject_custom. This allows it to be killtargeted.

Sage words from Preach the almighty.

I used this very trick on the jam 7 entry! 
Quothhacks Are The New Maphacks 
Thanks for the tip! I'm away from my development PC at the moment, but i'll test and report back when I can.

Mugwump, I'll post in General Abuse I suppose. 
Bloughsburgh (or Anyone Else Around) 
I've found plenty of useful info thanks to your links but this one eludes me: how do I set a brush to nodraw in TB 1.16? 
Well, it's almost there. The monster sees the player through the mapobject_custom, but they don't seem interested in shooting them. They just try and path to them, which involves essentially rubbing their face up against the glass pitifully.

How did monsters handle your trick Bloughsburgh? I'd be interested to hear if they were more functional than mine. 
It seems to be caused by the trigger_once, if I move/remove it the monster will behave properly. :( 
Close Enough? 
I have committed the mortal sin... Maphacks in a mod. But hey, i'll take anything at this point.

My solution to my own issue was to use this wonderful guide (which I am sure everyone is already familiar with) to build a trigger which activates whenever it's touched by anything, such as a nail from the monster or any other projectile, as well as when it's physically touched by the player.

This allowed me to work without the health value, which was what was making the trigger stop monsters from shooting.

Sadly, the trigger isn't activated by hitscan weapons such as the shotgun or lightning gun. I don't suppose anyone has any advice on fixing this, or will i have to settle for this in my map? I could bear it, it's already mostly working after all... 
No Draw 
Mug, are you referring to the SKIP texture perhaps?
Any face with the SKIP texture will not be drawn. 
No. I built a flight of stairs of 16 units tall each, but climbing/descending them results in a choppy movement, so I wanted to build a slope over it and make it invisible to smooth it. I've read that you can do that by setting a brush to nodraw. Besides, I don't seem to have a skip texture in my wad (I'm using Q.wad). 
Clip Brush 
Invisible solid brush?

8 unit stairs are smoother for ascending but I figured you intentionally want them beefy steps. 
Yes, Invisible Solid 
Well, they were my first stairs and I wasn't sure about the proportions. I built one step and thought it looked good, so I went on with the whole staircase. Only after finishing did I realize the movement was choppy. I don't want to discard the whole thing because I spent quite some time on it and I really like how it looks with the texture I used, so I need an invisible slope over it. I'll build them steps 8 units tall next time. 
Yes, use a Clip brush that is paint the CLIP texture on your stair slope and it will be invisible yet solid.

Clip brushes are also handy to prevent the player from getting stuck on strange angles like pointy corners and such. Also, big stairs are fine I was just presenting an alternate form of them. :) 
Clip. Found it. OK thanks, also for the tip about getting stuck. It might come in handy for a future map I have in mind full of pointy things and weird angles. 
I Found Interesting Thing About Quakespasm Vs Darkplaces 
I compiled my map with a player accidentally intersecting with the ground. It works fine in a QS but in DP player is stuck. Additionally my map in DP is broken, health is stuck in the Vending Machine and walls flicker like crazy in a few places.

Player in a ground is my fault, but I wonder if there is a way to fix other shit. 
OK, built the clip brush and placed it. It works fine and the movement is super smooth, except... when I stand still on the slope, it makes me slowly slip downstairs. Is this normal and can I make the slope not slippery? 
Clip brushes are incredibly important, imo. It can be tough to notice at first, especially in quake with its janky movement code, but being able to move smoothly along a wall goes a long way to improving the feel of a map.

If you've got any small detailing or slight curves on your walls, it's advisable to clip it all off into a flat surface. Be careful, though. You don't want it to feel like an invisible wall. 
Try splitting the difference? Move the slope of the clip brush 8 units down. Bouncing will be less and the part of the step that sticks out will stop the sliding. 
Slippery Slope 
As far as I know, this isn't something you can fix. With a gentle incline (i.e. stairs) it tends to not be very noticeable. Every slope has it, even the slightest one, to varying degrees of severity. 
Slope Trope 
Slopes will do that, Ranger slides on slopes.

You could create 8 unit clip steps in between the visible stairs as a work around. This way you still have your desired textured steps. Ascending and descending stairs is always choppy in some form. 
I tried that but I still slip down on the portions of the slope remaining above the stairs. Plus it makes the chopiness return. 
Man, that's a stumper. At least you got reasonably close to your desired effect.

In order for hitscan weapons to hit that custom trigger...I have no idea. 
My stairs are 32*16, so it makes, what, a 22.5 degrees angle? Anyway, there's gonna be action in that room so the player will be on the move and there's not much else to do on those stairs, so I doubt it's gonna be an issue 99% of the time. Thanks for the tip about walls. 
Well, the "chopiness" is supposed to be there. Gliding up and down steps without it will seem weird in Quake. It's not a flight simulator.

You can change to 8 unit steps or just use a ramp, either will work as players expect in Quake. 
I'll try that too, see which solution is best. Thanks again.

@Pritchard Who's gonna have the hitscan weapon, the monsters or player? If the latter, maybe you can add a shootable trigger that will activate the custom trigger? 
It truly does have me stumped. At the moment i'm thinking of various methods to steer the player away from using a shotgun, but obviously nothing can be perfect here either (giving them a weapon/ammo that uses projectiles so that people with game sense or autoswitch will probably be using it, but nothing to stop them switching back mid fight...)

Mugwump, unfortunately we've already tried regular shootable triggers. The issue with those is that, despite the name, monsters don't like to shot them.

A light has appeared at the end of the tunnel, although it is a weak and meager one. I might end up redesigning the playspace to put less emphasis on engaging through the glass, switching back to the traditional triggers perhaps and keeping the glass from being between the player and the enemy. It feels like admitting defeat, but at this point I think i'm ready for it. 
Use a Fiend, he jumps like crazy and has melee attack. Will break glass for sure :D 
Sometime It Is Best To Move On 
Grinding over this particular engagement can lead to demoralizing and risk hurting the remainder of the map. Perhaps even come back to it later and see if anyone else can provide some insight! 
If your monsters don't use hitscans, there's no problem on their part. They can shoot directly the custom trigger. The shootable trigger would only be of use to the player if he uses the shotty.

OR... I know about a mod that turns the shotty into a projectile weapon. Added bonus, visible flying pellets. 
The extra clip stairs did the trick. Movement is as fluid as with the slope AND I don't slide one bit. Awesome, thanks a lot! 
Seems like I've spoken too fast! Apparently I tested the sloped version by mistake, so of course it was fluid. It's weird: even with the extra steps, it's as choppy as without. I also sometimes get momentarily halted by a step if I don't look up the stairs. I'm thinking it might be because I cropped 1 unit on the edge of my stairs at a 45 degree angle. 
The placebo effect in action with those stairs, I guess. I wouldn't worry about it too much, it's important to not get hung up on small imperfections like that. Massive time sink.

The issue with the hitscan-shootable trigger is that when it's between the monster and the player, the monster won't attack. At all. So having the custom trigger would be useless in that situation, as it would never get used.
I don't know about fiends, but I assume the same goes for them.

The projectile shotgun would be nice, but working that into Quoth sounds difficult, if only because I have no knowledge at all in that area of quake content. Would it even be possible?

Anyway, I reworked the entire area. The glass plays a much less important role now, but it plays it much better! I was able to switch back to regular func_breakable brushes, which was better than the hacky mess I had that would crash the game if it wasn't killtargeted as soon as it was triggered...

Now I have a new issue! Does anyone have a .fgd file for Trenchbroom that includes the definitions for the info_logic_* entities? The built in one doesn't seem to have them, and although it's possible to add the keys manually, it's a lot easier to get wrong and I'd feel better having a complete file regardless... 
As far as steps go, you are going to get that "step" feedback...that's just how Ranger's bounding box works. A ramp, as Rick suggested would be the ideal way to have that smooth feedback but then you got the sliding effect.

As far as I know, it is a case of this or that. 
This is EndsWithTen's FGD file. I used it for my base map so it has all of the models! 
Yeah, I think I'm gonna give up and go with the slope. As I said, there's gonna be action here so the player probably won't stand still... I still wish I'd understand why the momentary halts happen though.

Bloughsburgh, yes I know there's bound to be some chopiness, I've been playing Quake since it came out. But the 16-unit steps make it super choppy, with a side dish of getting stuck. Fuck that, it's a slope. Uiiiiii! 
Quoth Transparent Water & Trenchbroom Point Files 
I'm about 90% done with the layout of the Quoth map I'm working on (minus tweaks) but there are a couple issues I want to address since my last compile.

1. Running the map in Quoth seems to make all liquids transparent, which doesn't happen when I run it in vanilla Quake. I was wondering if this is something weird I'm doing or if it's a normal behavior I can turn off, because I don't like the way it looks in my map. The Quoth mapping tutorial doesn't mention this.

2. How do I use a point file in Trenchbroom to find a leak? Nothing in the Help file says how. 
re: 1. I did find the leak (it happened when I raised a floor that I also happened to be using as a ceiling for a room below... probably shouldn't do that), but still, it would be good to know how to use point files. 
Point File 
In TB 1.16 I go in the File menu and click Load Point File. I assume it'd be the same in v2. 
Point File Use 
It shows a yellow line running through your map and you'll find the leak on that line. 
Some editors can display the pointfile, others can't. Just load your map in Quake. open the console and type pointfile.

It helps to turn on notarget and noclip when looking for the leak.

The line of points will start out in the void and zig zag its way to an entity through the leak. 
1. Running the map in Quoth seems to make all liquids transparent, which doesn't happen when I run it in vanilla Quake. I was wondering if this is something weird I'm doing or if it's a normal behavior I can turn off, because I don't like the way it looks in my map. The Quoth mapping tutorial doesn't mention this.

It's probably that a map you've previously played in Quoth set the water transparent, and the last setting gets saved by the engine. Add an info_command_spawn to the map, and give it a "message" key of "r_wateralpha 1". This will force all the water in your map opaque.

If you wanted to make some water transparent, and other parts opaque, that's a different trick which I can share on request. 
I'd be interested in hearing the trick, just out of curiosity to see how it compares to the method I usevin my maps with func_illusionary brushes... 
That's pretty much it, you use func_illusionary combined with *waterskip for the portions that should be opaque, and regular water brushes for the transparent parts. 
Pointfile thing was a big no duh. Whoops.

As for the liquids, that did it Preach, thanks!

Now I just have to figure out how to make the lighting look passable. Time to take a peak at some map sources and see how it's done I guess. 
So I downloaded the JACK fgd, it's a pity it doesn't show the correct models for some entities (all armors look the same, etc.) but it does actually have all the entities, so that's a fair trade.

In other news, i'm jumping from one issue to another with this room. I'm trying to set up some reinforcements to spawn in when the player presses a button, and i want them to at random intervals. I set up a simple gate with a trap, a func_wall and a trigger_multiple to fire an info_logic_random, which is supposed to pick a spawner at random to fire.

Well, it certainly picks something! Using 'developer 8' I found out than when the info_logic_random picks a set to target (it's in branch mode) it also decides to killtarget '', the player. Bit of a showstopper.

Here's the entity setup:

// entity 494
"classname" "info_logic_random"
"origin" "3720 808 296"
"angle" "-0"
"spawnflags" "1"
"target" "monspawn2_a"
"targetname" "monspawn2_1"
"chance" "0.5"
"target3" "monspawn2_b"

Trust me, I hate the target naming scheme too.

So, any advice? Is this entity just bugged? 
how does one make the waterfall (from dissolution) texture behave like water while still being animated? 
I suspect you would have to make 2 brushes. The animated texture a func_illusionary and a water volume with a waterskip texture? I'm not 100% sure though if having a completely skipped face water volume would work. 
Slime No Longer Damaging Player 
Just throwing this out there.

*waterskip is ONLY for water. Adding *waterskip to any face of an otherwise *slime brush will cause it to be treated as pure water.

As an aside, you could create a secret path through lava.

Does anyone know if there is support for *slimeskip or *lavaskip in Tyrutils? 
As an aside, you could create a secret path through lava

Ooh, that's nifty! 
heh that's actually relevant to what I'm doing. I'm not fussed about the slime damage though, it's only a small area.

here are the textures I'm using, they're the waterfall textures recoloured for slime. 
I Have A Semi-solution 
In the same area as your water texture, make a trigger_hurt.
Add a property to the trigger_hurt titled "self.solid" with a value of "SOLID_NOT"
(quotation marks unnecessary)

The downside is that envirosuits won't protect you from the damage using this hack.

You can also mimic the death message of the slime using this method. 
Scratch That. 
it already has that property.

/me reinvents the wheel. 
Random Toggle 
So, any advice? Is this entity just bugged?

Yup! Good catch. Interestingly, this is a variation on the issue that NewHouse was experiencing with empty killtarget fields a few weeks back. Only trouble is that the progs is setting the blank killtarget field, and there's no way around it.

For now, you might have to stick to using it without the toggle spawnflag (which was added as an afterthought and not tested well enough). There is a way to emulate the toggle behaviour with a few additional entities:

Have the info_logic_random target a func_togglewall on and off. Place an info_logic_inopen inside the togglewall with target "monspawn2_a", and an info_logic_insolid inside with target "monspawn2_b". Then, when you want to make a random branch, trigger the info_logic_random, followed by both the info_logic_inopen and info_logic_insolid. To trigger things in a specific order, simply target the first one using the "target" field of the instigator, and the second using "target2". 
Thanks for the confirmation and advice for a solution. Hopefully people will find it in the future when searching the thread!

Unfortunately the issue is no longer relevant for me, I ended up trying a few different options and settled on the monsters targetting their spawner when they died instead. But in between that, I experimented with using the min and max damage range of the info_trap and different health values for the trigger_multiple, which had a similar effect to what I wanted if I set one up for each spawner. Sadly it made the encounter either too spammy or too full of dead space and so I dropped randomness entirely. 
Lighting Techniques (using Tyrutils-ericw) 
Is it possible to make the core of light different color by placing multiple light entities in same spot? I'm using delay 2 in this case, and was thinking of using 450 - 300 light value, but putting different wait values for each entities that are in exact same position. But so far I haven't anything like that, maybe the intensity of other lights will wash off what I'm thinking, or maybe that's not even possible. I'm was thinking of nice a bit cyan color as a light core, and then it gets milder yet changes color more to steel blue and last 3rd would be almost white color. That way I could make colors pleasant to look at but not making basic gameplay harder.

Just wondering, because I know you guys are better with technical knowledge and stuff. I will continue testing, not sure will it lead anything. 
you can stack multiple lights, just be aware that they will both add together in the central core. 
There seems to be also different kind of light entities.. globe, light, marsh, fluoro.. best way to see results, might be just trying each of them how they look. Is it fine to try out multiple types, or are there limitation or error from using too many types and so on? 
I guess those are almost the same as normal Light, light seems to act same way.. maybe those has different attributes or something then.. globe seems to have a sprite ball or something, and marsh has bubbles effect. 
Light Entities 
The various light entities mentioned above are all just the same as a regular light, except that they also have something else attached to them, like a model, particle effect or sprite. You won't be able to achieve any different visual effects in regards to color or attenuation/dynamic properties with them. 
Is there a way to get multiple sky textures into a certain map? I want to use a regular sky texture once but also have some void bits. So far I'm just using a non-sky black texture for the void, but it doesn't absorb shots like a sky texture does.

I do know a partial solution for Quoth only: a trigger_void brush seems to absorb projectiles, but does *not* absorb shotgun blasts for some reason. 
Something did just occur to me: just put black func_illusionaries in front of the actual edge brushes. Bullets would disappear through them.

Carry on (though it wouldn't hurt to hear other ideas!). 
As far as I know, it's not possible for most (all?) quake engines to load multiple skyboxes/textures at the same time; which one is used will be determined by whichever was defined last. 
There might possibly be some trickery (QC code or hack) to get the sky to change, but in standard Quake you can only have one.

To get an all black sky just use TexMex to add a new all black sky to your texture wad. It has to be 256x128 pixels and the name has to start with sky 
Quoth allows you to change the skybox through trigger_command. In most cases this is unfeasible, because skyboxes are larger files and can take a couple seconds to load, which would break immersion. However, the void skybox included with Quoth is tiny (it's literally six 16x16 images), and loading it through trigger_command is instant and seamless.

You can also use trigger_command to switch back to the regular sky texture by passing this command:

sky "" 
I did not know Quoth could do this...

You could go through a sky sight blocking tunnel or elevator to mask a sky change. I know that's a trick with changing fog for AD at least. Damn, that's a pretty nifty feature! 
Multiple Skyboxes 
I construckted large spheres to turn as static entity. They're a bit wobbling, but create an option for more than one skybox
you could make them rotate using the same model flag that rotates weapons, this way there is no wobble. 
Didn't Think Of That, 
but I suspect the speed will be too high, concerning the weapon rotate.
I don't know of a way to slow it down.

The mdl tree goes to 240 frames, almost the maximum.
Slowing down the rotation with
{self.nextthink = time + 0.99;};
didn't haver the desired effeckt, only the decimal work, not the 0.01.
I could get no better result available than the youtube version. 
Rotate Flag 
Is there a method for slowing down the flag that rotates weapons, or is it hard coded? 
Get In Here Preach. 
I tried ages to get something that works, be best I could do was change the initial angle.

But really, we all know who the person is to ask. 
Be = The 
Allah Djin 
I think it is hard coded, otherwise another dude had come up earlier with the idea. 
Anybody Know How To Make Infinite Telefrags? 
I'm trying to make a mockup teleporter appear as if players are continually porting though it and being telefragged. I'm having some trouble with some bits.

I can use an info_(not)null to execute a PlayerDie command, which gibs when the entity has less than -40 health. Which is fine, but doesn't reset it's initial coordinates, the second triggering occurs where the head landed. At the moment I've boxed it in with skip brushes to keep it contained. I could kill target it, but I'd like the entity to disappear and respawn at the origin that it was placed.

Is there a way to execute two functions on a single entity? SUB_regen looks promising, but doesn't appear to work as a "think" value, unless I'm doing something wrong. SUB_Remove seems to work (or it just breaks it) when it is set to the think value, but it doesn't retrigger. I assume that this does the same as killtarget.

I'm also using the spawn_tfog function, to give the teleporter effect, but this only spawns at coords 0,0,0.

Any ideas? 
Multiple Functions 
There are several "slots" that you can use for a function on a hacked entity, but each one runs for a different reason, so it can be tricky. Quick summary of the main ones:

use: Runs when the entity is used
think: Runs when the entity's nextthink time is reached, in general only useful for a one off activation
th_die: Runs when the entity's health is reduced to zero
th_pain: Runs when the entity's health drops, but doesn't hit zero
classname: Runs on the first frame of the game
touch: Runs when another entity collides with the entity in question
think1: Runs when the entity runs SUB_CalcMoveDone

Complicated hacks often involve different functions in two or three slots, and finding a way to get all the functions you need is a balancing act.

Luckily today we can exploit the weirdest one on the list, think1. Put PlayerDie in think1, set use to SUB_CalcMoveDone, and set finaldest to the coordinates that you want the gibs to spawn from.

How does it work? SUB_CalcMoveDone is a function which does three things, any of which might be useful, and then lets you run another function. The three things are setting the origin of the entity, setting the velocity of the entity to zero, and setting its nextthink time to -1. Today, the first one is useful and the last two are harmless, so we get away with it. 
Thanks Man 
I am interested in use the lava shambler of "Source of evil" for my project, I need permission of author? 
The rotation speed for EF_ROTATE appears to be hardcoded in the engine :( 
it stays allahdjin. 
Read the documentation of the light compilers you're using. Light in quake is pretty simple, and all of the light entities do the same job. Luckily, a number of clever people have done stuff to make the lightmap process more maleable. First off, you should be using EricW's version of the Tyr compilers.

Then, read what Tyrann has to say on the subject:


And Eric:

And if you want to get really arcane, Aguirre;

Although to be fair that's more of everything and not directly light related. 
Thanks, that last link seems new to me, let's see what does it concerns. 
How does one set up GtkRadiant 1.6.5 for Quake editing? I couldn't for the life of me get it to work. The website mentions you as the maintainer of the Q1 gamepack. The files in the SVN certainly don't do it, they appear to be for 1.5> branch. 
Some Pointers 
All lights are additive to the lightmap, but you can use antilights to subtract from it.

Using too much coloured light at too high a saturation will cause clamping - resulting unexpected weird colours.

If you get dark triangles then there is probably a brush misalignment nearby, or the compilers just don't like the way you've built the area.

Setup your sun properly - experiment with different configurations in a box map to get it right for the skybox and mood you're after.

You can turn lights on and off.

Animated lights are best used sparingly, and will start provoking warnings and won't animate quite right if there are too many too close to each other. 
I have to keep those in mind.. what if I don't want to use sun as main light source, because you can not set different sun light colors for each section of map? 
Argh, I dropped the ball on that.. I set up a gamepack for 1.6 a while ago but I need to bug the GTKR folks to add it to SVN and include it with the builds.

The gamepack is linked here along with some documentation on the Q1 support:

It should work if you download my Q1pack and put it in the "installs" directory of GTKR 1.6.

If you have trouble getting it to work, here is a build of 1.6 I made ~2 years ago that has the gamepack installed and supports quake out of the box.

Also any feedback on the gamepack would be welcome, I haven't seriously used it tbh. I got the .def from gb, I think it's a standard .def that has func_detail added. 
Just don't use sun - you can just place lights in the sky to get a similar effect. 
Cast Surface Lights From The Sky Texture 
Thanks. It works. The def file is not very good compared to my old one from 1.5, incomplete or missing entity descriptons.

Showstopper for me is that the floating window layout is broken (still). Entity window is always on top. Similar to NetRadiant, the additional layout options never seem to get any attention from the developers. 
Waterfall Texture 
Looking for the waterfall texture used in maps such as Than's Subterranean Library or Lunaran's jam2 map. I am going through the wads directory and checking out previews but fail to see it! More specifically of the blood variety. 
Open TexMex

Click File
Click Open
Type "c:\quake\jam2\maps\yourmap.bsp"

You will be looking at the textures from the map. 
How To Control Enemies Navigation Area? 
I made not narrow walls and for some reason enemies tried to walk over it, is there any way to make enemies not try something like that? clip texture effect player as well but I would like to use something just specifically for enemies. 
I made narrow walls* 
Sorry again.. I mean crooked/twisted/tilted walls.. sure I use narrow hallways, but wasn't talking about them in this case* 
@Baker I know was tronyn, I done bad the question, now I ask to he 
Ah, too bad. Could I include your better-quality .def in the gamepack? 
I Don't Understand Colors 
So, I use multiple blue colors, and only value that changes is Lum (luminous value of color). I try to use same thing for different colors that are not main colors, for example blue violet. I separate to 2-3 different tints(dark -> light) of that color. As an result I get weird pink colors, if colors are close or in exact same position.. so I guess this works only for main colors, red, blue, green, when there is no mixed other colors.

This starts feeling like painting for real, but without seeing results as fast.

If someone is experienced user with colors, a little lecture would help me a lot. Simply answer "do not use mixed colors" is something I will ignore immediately, because I want to learn and use colored lights. I was watching color theory videos on youtube, and getting some nice ideas how to choose own color palettes, but many modern games uses multiple colors in same places and they blend together smoothly.. it is hard to explain why, because I'm not expert in those subjects, and I'm sure quake works a little differently (because it is old game) - but any lighting techniques/secrets that might make it feel like 'modern' would help a lot.

I have been playing around different delay settings, and when used together gives interesting results, just like what I wanted. For example using delay 2 to push our shiny color, then make it lighter and using 0 / 5. Shamefully something like that didn't worked quite well for color "blue violet". 
Multiple lights of different colors is probably going to make it harder instead of easier to do what you want. Quake's colored light is basic RGB 0-255. All 0 = black, all 255 = white.

For example, a light that's 0 0 255 is pure and saturated blue. To lighten or desaturate it, add equal amounts of red and green, such as 80 80 255. Boost or cut the amount or red or green slightly to change the tint toward purple or yellow.

Or you can go the other way. The center of the texture light3_8 is actually a pinkish color. Instead of pure white, set the light color to something like 255 240 224 
It only looked like it works but.. does this really works this way too?

If I add same about for both red and green, but at the beginning one of them has more than the other.

for example 100 80 255.. 120 100 255.. 140 120 255 and so on. I tried something like that and color changed but kept.. the same base color only more brighter. Or maybe it only just looked like it worked. 
Just Use A Colour Picker 
first hit on google: 
I use and

That looks neat too.. not sure how it works though. I was just wondering that idea of using same color but only brightness changes. First I had wierd problems with blue violet color and it turn into pinkish color. But doing it right.. I guess.. it keep in same color only brightness changed. So I guess what I was trying to ask was, what did I do wrong at the first place when it turn into pinkish colors.

So hopefully this thing never happens to me again. 
Can Func_door_secret Open Upwards? 
Can func_door_secret open upwards?

I have a func_door_secret with "angle" set to "-1" but it slides sideways to open. 
I think that which Kinn provided the link to, will help you understand better what's going on. Hex codes and color schemes are for web page designers, so don't worry about that for now.

The boxes down the right side let you enter a color in two different ways or in a combination of both. HSL and RGB. Try changing the numbers in them and watch how the selector dot moves.

H Hue is color
S Saturation is basically how far from pure white
L Luminance or Brightness is how far from pure black

Try entering 0 0 255 for RGB. Look at the resulting numbers for S and B. Try changing S and B from 100 to 75, 50, 25, etc, watch how the picker dot moves and note the changes in the RGB numbers. 
Just delete the "func_door_secret" option from the classname, make it a commen func_door and add a message for your secret door.

The door_secret code is only one way. 

"angles" "-90 90 0"

produced my desired effect. 
If I has button on the ceiling, is it possible to make it go up when shot by using that same idea? 
Yep, it's possible, you don't use "angles" though:

"classname" "func_button"
"angle" "-1" // -1=button goes up when pressed; -2 would go down
"health" "1" 
Thanks, that will help so much now that I know how to do it in a right way.. was using func_train ealier*

So I started using brighter blue/yellow/orange colors, and trying to figure out whether or not focus points are easy to spot. I put screen brightness very low. But I'm pretty sure there will be a lot of people who can't see even focus points or everything is unpleasantly dark.

So let me know, should I put lighting from 300 to even 450 when using delay 5. I removed even colors so I can see which colors are actually brighter and of course it seemed like yellow/orange is a bit brighter which is good thing, because it works as a main goal color. 
Or should I put bright colors in middle of rooms/hallways to add that overall visibility? And not try to increase the actual light sources.. but focus on "fake" lighting. 
Taste Of Choice 
I'm attracted to colour lights, but I make sure the white light stays dominate.
In that way the colours blend in at the background without destroying the texture. 
Yeah, you're right.. unless it is meant to be disturbing and texture breaking like in silent hill, if you know what I mean*

But overall I want to try to keep colors under control, everything is still quite new to me. I will try adding this white color more by placing them in middle of hallways/room/areas, and let's see what happens. I looked up some map files by other people and they were placing light sources in middle of rooms etc. For some reasons I tried to avoid using those, because I wanted to light comes from "real" light sources like lamps, torches etc. but it seems like that is not enough always.. and if light value is too high everyone sees it, even if using delay 5 - but it doesn't light that much imo. 
I wanted to light comes from "real" light sources like lamps

That's a great mindset to have when it comes to lights so stick with that idea.

In terms of fill lights like you describe those are needed to but try out the new -bounce parameter in the latest Tyrutils. Check out a bounce demo here:

For my jam map, I used almost no fill lights and just played with bounce scale and such. I am pretty impressed so far!

Another thing to mess with:

Say you have a lamp...

Place a light entity with a high wait value (7-8.5) and place it directly at the source of a lamp. Then place your actually room filling light that the lamp would give off in front of that. This will give the lamp an intense bright source which makes it seem like a real light source.

Lots of experimentation when it comes to lights. 
Ah, fantastic.. I was only using bounce 0.1, because I wanted to keep it "horror" in one level.. I want to have actual 100% dark places too. I was afraid that bounce scale would make everything "too bright" in terms of mood I'm trying to capture.. but I'm sure I can increase the value a bit higher sure* 
And maybe playing around with those wait values more, I can control it somehow* 
Im Not Sure 
but i think bounce is either 1 or 0

1 being a single light bounce, 0 being off.
ericw could probably enlighten us further. 
Yeah, there is the on/off switch, plus 2 parameters:

-bounce n

Enables 1 bounce, 0=disable even if set in worldspawn. Available as a worldspawn key.

-bouncescale n

Scales brightness of bounce lighting, default 1. Available as a worldspawn key.

-bouncecolorscale n

Weight for bounce lighting to use texture colors from the map: 0=ignore map textures (default), 1=multiply bounce light color by texture color. Available as a worldspawn key.

The first screenshot on shows the effect of different values of -bouncescale, if you click on the buttons on the side.

I haven't mentioned "-bouncecolorscale" much, not sure if anyone is using it, but this is what makes white light bouncing off a red wall become red light (you have to turn it on; by default the map is treated as if all textures are solid gray.) 
Sorry I meant I used bouncescale 0.1 
Now I set it to default 1, and start working on lights again. Maybe after this my map is much more playable. 
2 Lights 
Here is an example of a

light 100 wait 0.3
and a colour light of
light 300 colour 112 132 256.

As they both are the same strength 300=100/wait0.3 the colour has the same glow as the withe, producing a rare effect. 
Does it mean.. if I use 450 it is.. 450=100/wait 0.45? 
My thoughts are that too much of your light is coming from highly saturated colored light. Try setting a wait value on the sourced colored lights (those that are supposed to look like they are emitted from a texture). Try around 1.5 - 3 or more and use delay 2 or 5. Try to confine the color to just the area near the source.

Then add some white or almost white area lighting out away from any surfaces. Give those a low light value but with a small wait, so they can reach for some distance, light around 150-200, wait 0.5 - 0.7 
Trying all this, and having bouncescale 1? 
I don't use a new enough light.exe to have bounce, but it shouldn't matter much if the colored light is not allowed to extend very far.

Here is part of my map. After I made this pic I realized it was actually not a great example. There is more colored light in that room than any other room in the map. I think there is 6, maybe 7 different colors in use. 
How do you make it show like this, is it some command you need to put on engine's console?

Anyway, thanks for your suggestion - I try to understand what it means, some of words are new to me and I might not understand it 100%.. but I sure try. 
sourced colored lights = original colors from quake's palette?

..they are emitted from a texture = same colors that are used mainly to make all of original textures?

..white or almost white area lighting out away from any surfaces = means I should place white light sources to walls, ceilings, even floors even though there is no visible any "real" light sources where that light comes from? 
r_lightmap 1 
What is r_lightmap? it is not command or anything? 
Experimental options..
-lit2 -> write lit2. file
-lux -> write lux. file

what are those? 
Oh, thanks khreathor* nevermind it did that what I was asking earlier. 
So now I can actually see the lighting itself.. this will speed up the progress so much. 
lit2 allows much higher resolution lightmaps and lux probably does something similar but is designed specifically for FTE.

lit2 is not supported by many engines afaik 
And indeed Rick, base color was too saturated in overall, I need to add more white there. 
r_lightmap is a console command.

r_lightmap 1
r_lightmap 0

You can actually add it to your autoexec.cfg file. The autoexec.cfg is a file with commands that are run automatically when you start the game. You might have to create it first if you've never had one before (it's just a simple text file). The "toggle" part makes it so pressing the key turns it on/off.

bind "l" "toggle r_lightmap"

I use the L key, but it can be whatever you want.

Some other useful commands to put in autoexec.cfg are:

bind "?" "toggle r_fullbright"
bind "?" "toggle r_showtris"
bind "?" "toggle r_showbboxes"

noclip and notarget don't need "toggle"

bind "?" "noclip"
bind "?" "notarget"

Just replace the ? with whatever key you want to use. 
I forgot to say, autoexec.cfg goes in the Quake/ID1 folder

If you play other game types such as Quoth and AD, you have to put a copy in their folder also. 
Thanks, Rick. Now it is super fast to toggle between different views. 
Sourced lights are when the light has an obvious point of origin. It is coming from something. That could be a flame or torch entity, but most often is a texture which has an image or picture of some kind of lighting fixture on it.

Notice how the source light is concentrated near the source and falls off quickly. The areas between are still lit, but not as much. And the light there has much less color. That is what I use fill/area lights for.

Keep in mind that I'm just offering some generalized examples here. I'm not at all trying to tell you exactly what to do. 
Thanks, wasn't really sure what "sourced light" meant, I used 'real light source' on my posts. But yeah, that is the problem what light doesn't lit that much, and if value is much higher origin of light is too bright. Especially when using delay 2, then if I put delay 5 to give some of that white color it pretty much blend together with colored light, and in some cases leaves weird color print on surface (which is ugly looking).

This image is not exactly what I'm trying to do, but it is better than nothing: 
Is it possible to make faces/surfaces to receive color more? 
Is it possible to make some kind of start map, where have to press button to increase/decrease brightness of screen. Something like Amnesia and Outlast had at the very beginning. Turn up/down until you see some wall or something. 
In Quoth you can trigger console command, so you could set brightness like this. I don't know if this is possible in vanilla Quake. 
Instead of trying to force quake something impossible, this brightness selection start map would remove that problem people are having with maps that uses darker lights. I really hope this is the right way of thinking in this case? I have seen how quake tries to light up areas and it basically will kill the main goal I had, so if brightness is only issue.. why not try fix that first? 
I mean why not solve* this problem this way. 
Because maps that are too dark is not a player problem, it's a mapper problem. 
Monitor Configuration -

Good way of configuring your monitor, if everyone did this then we'd be halfway to getting some parity/unification on custom map lighting.

Also a good test is to play through episode 1 to get a good idea of what kind of brightness your maps should be. 
Mappers can't be perfect in every aspect Kinn. And episode 1 is not my taste of coffee to be honest, episode 1 doesn't have darkness almost at all. I am not trying to please only older quake fans, but also people who love horror games nowadays such as Amnesia and Outlast, that in mind I try to find solutions how to balance these things. Screen brightness can be too dark for most users to be able to play horror games right away without setting screen brightness level inside game. 
The only thing I can say about that NewHouse is while darkness is good for horror games, Quake is a shooter. The player needs to see the environment and make decisions based on cookie crumbs (ideally indistinguishable and not obvious) by the mapper.

When said environment is just black and more black, the player can get confused and therefore frustrated...which is bad.

Darkness is fine in Quake, you can create deep and vivid shadows that really bring a scene to life and set a proper mood...but there needs to be a happy balance! 
The only thing I can say about that NewHouse is while darkness is good for horror games, Quake is a shooter. The player needs to see the environment and make decisions based on cookie crumbs (ideally indistinguishable and not obvious) by the mapper.

When said environment is just black and more black, the player can get confused and therefore frustrated...which is bad.

Darkness is fine in Quake, you can create deep and vivid shadows that really bring a scene to life and set a proper mood...but there needs to be a happy balance! 
Windows 7 (probably 8 and 10 also) has a simple, but decent built-in calibration. You can find it in the "Display" properties or just run dccw.exe

I've always thought most of the original Quake levels were pretty dark. I normally have the brightness slider set 2 or 3 steps from full left (gamma 0.90 - 0.85).

I am also one those who use the original levels as a "go by" for setting brightness in my own maps. 
Bloughsburgh did you read my latest comment? I don't like darkness if it ruins gameplay.. the thing is it does. Problem is not every people uses same settings as mappers (even if options are default or something). If I can see, and enjoy I know others can do, like some of them really did. I want to make it possible by adding options to set brightness. So I don't understand what is so wrong about this idea. 
The thing is it doesn't ruin.. only settings fail. 
It sounds like you deliberately want the map to be darker than normal then, which is fine. But there's dark as in "I can't see shit, anywhere" - which is bad obviously for Quake - and then there's dark in a sort of Episode 4 way, where you have large swathes of black, but you can still see what's going on because the light is applied to create areas of bright contrast amongst the blackness so you can always make out the structure of the environment.

Making the map too dark everywhere, and then relying on the player to yank it up to a playable level using r_gamma (or some in-game interface to r_gamma) is silly and totally defeats the point. 
The brightness sliders in engines aren't there to adapt to specific maps, they're for adapting to the room brightness you're playing in, whether you're playing windowed/fullscreen, how good your LCD's black level is, etc.

Dark/horror maps are fine but they should be built for the same gamma setting as, say, the dark maps in episode 4. 
What settings episode 4 then used? 
If something is silly, it is not stupid. But yeah episode 4 is my favorite episode. And also I like colors used like in old italian/france horror movies. So only way to make it pleasant for everyone is try as stupid as what I mentioned.

If someone doesn't like the result, at least I tried. But this is basically only thing that motivates me to do these maps. 
Stick with it and don't get discouraged. Lighting in Quake isn't easy. I probably spend as much time on lighting as I do on everything else combined.

Try to avoid fighting with the engine as much as possible. Cool ideas which are difficult or nearly impossible to implement really aren't worth the time when making your first few maps.

Don't put 95% of your effort into 5% of the map that most players won't appreciate anyway. 
I have watched many playthroughs by several people, where people appreciate mood in maps.. just good map layout or idea isn't enough. This is also my hobby.. so I want to make maps I also like to play. Is it really worth making something mapper itself doesn't want to play. My goal is to make maps which I would play many many times and enjoy. For example I like challenge, so I make challenging maps, and hard has to be really hard even if I know the layout all the way through.

Darkness is important because enemies can hide in darkness, great way to set up ambushes. In jam map I used pulse lights very much because I wanted enemies to surprise player "mild jumpscare without awful noise". And many more things, which I need to learn how to do things properly.

In horror colors are the must, I cant capsule same mood using different or too bright colors.. that is why I have been spend 3-4 days in a row trying make blue color stay visible yet not let white color clear everything off. In my eyes quake is still horror action shooter no matter what others might say. 
I pretty much believe.. I can't see this map with different lighting:

I was working horror fantasy theme before this jam suddenly started. I was lucky I spotted it on time. 
Wait a minute.. I could use blue fog to create that cold feeling*... now I will stupid. 
those screenshots look like an ok brightness to me anyway 
Maybe biggest reasons why this jam map (ice core) were so dark, wasn't because I didn't use enough intensity (light value), but because I used blue as a main light source and blue is quite dark color. If there is not enough intensity in shiny blue colors, there simply is no color then. Hopefully fog can add that extra boost to that mood, though I am not sure will that replace actual blue lights totally or not. 
Ice Core? Is that the name of your MJ7 entry? It's called Untitled in the map pack. Anyway, I don't think it's too dark and it certainly isn't darker than Khreathor's map. I happen to love the dark blue color you used for your lighting, it gives your map a very distinctive atmosphere, something that is often lacking in base maps. 
Stupid me was struggling to understand what people were talking "unfortunately untitled", I was that blind that I thought I changed the title, but nope. Welp, standalone version sure will have that name that is for sure.

It can be unclear to see why that name, because I cut off the whole 'ice core' section. Original vision was.. you need to turn power on in ice core, because pyros cut it off because they started fixing wires or something. Then elevators works, then you can go to security center where you find gold access key. Also after entering that last door in jam version, there was meant to be teleport room and one last battle, which teleports the player into fantasy world.. possible to this one map I was working before this jam map.

So those are things I'm working on. Lighting is still very important to keep in mind all the way through, because if I need to make changes to lighting.. even if I organize them to different layers it is not fast by any mean to make changes.

Mixed opinions about it doesn't make it any easier, other say that they like what they see and others say they can't see shit. And I just suggest something to fix lighting by giving a player options adjust brightness level, it seems like whether it is impossible in Quake or just silly(stupid).

In Quake, people are used to this kind of skill selection map thing, so obviously same logic "would" go on other specific settings too, that is only reason why I suggested something like that (having an options inside map). I could write something on readme, but who read them anyway - even I jump right into game. 
So you're working on an expanded version, that's great! I suspected there was more to it when I saw "level 2" written above the exit door. If it's as good as the jam version, I look forward to playing it. As for fog, I think you should save it for the ice core once power is restored. You know, like cold produces condensation in cold storage equipments.

By the way, I noticed something odd in your map. In the LG room, there's some kind of flickering electric panel near the floor between the two doors. There's a neon flicker sound coming from the light on the left but this panel is strangely silent. You should add that sound there too, I think. 
Also, I played it on skill 1 and there was A LOT of ammo. Like, I used maybe only half of it. 
" As for fog, I think you should save it for the ice core once power is restored. You know, like cold produces condensation in cold storage equipments."

- I will keep that in mind, it is a good idea.

"There's a neon flicker sound coming from the light on the left but this panel is strangely silent. You should add that sound there too, I think. "

- I just quickly added something weird there, because that left wall has secret door and it's texture is even misaligned on purpose. I assume you didn't spotted secret* Sound might have been wrong in this case, I need to experience more with ambient sounds. If you played fixed version.. I remember adding there broken lamp & that sound.. 
So that's the one secret I missed! Thanks for the tip. The thing with hinting at secrets with flickering light/sound is that these defective lamps are also used just for ambiance, without any secret, so I tend to overlook them. I think it's better if the hint feels more out of place, like a slightly misaligned, discolored or particular texture, or an odd architectural detail. I've just checked and you did put a misaligned texture, but I failed to notice it during my playthrough.

While on the subject of secrets, the rocket jump one had a cool message that made it feel like an "achievement", but as a rule you'll want to avoid secrets that aren't accessible by normal means. Another thing: In the control center, there's a shootable button that makes a block rise to reveal a secret with rocket ammo. The problem is that once you do this, the quad above becomes inaccessible because you can't jump on that block anymore.

Glad you like my idea about the fog. It just seems logical that there should be ground fog in there, and it wouldn't really make sense to have fog in the entire base. 
Thanks for reminding me about that computer room secret, it indeed blocks way to up to get that quad damage. I haven't yet figured out how to make it, but one idea was to place another button inside that computer room secret, because I will make it lower after certain time so player can get quad damage*

I received same kind of feedback from couple people about that rocket jump secret.. so I made it so player can either find illusionary secret path or just rocket jump and message is "Illusionary/Rocket Jump secret". Hopefully that is good way to say it, so player knows that it is possible to access two ways, and naturally if player just rocket jumps, he/she will find also illusionary secret path.

Also I let my friend play play test my map, and I realize I need to move rocket launcher secret on same wall as megahealth secret, if you spotted these 2 secrets before yet near Rocket Jump secret. Basically when you jump from up to middle of boxes where that flashing red door is, there is red arrow shootable button, which opens secret door up where you jumped. Problem was because it wasn't 100% in player view, my friend missed it twice! So now I even placed that in front of face, if player misses it first time, at least when he comes back after picking that GK, he sees it in front of his eyes while walking/running up stairs.

So it kind of feels like I need to make "easy" secrets very very easy to spot. And leave only couple of them, quite hard to find. 
After all, it is good to have many secret, but almost half of them should be quite easy to find, that will be my goal for each map. It is good to see from feedback/records what kind of secrets are easier to spot.

Computer room quad damage is weird one, it is not secret though.. though it should be in final version. But that one, even I forget that until I finished my map and saw intermission screen.. this moment of realization might comes to many players, which is only good thing. It is nice to hide something on intermission view, if player somehow misses it. I assume you didn't notice it on first play until intermission screen? 
I don't exactly get what you mean with that illusionary/rocket jump thing (language barrier I guess, I know english isn't your native tongue). Both secrets are not far apart but not in the same place and one doesn't lead to the other.

The timed block with the button inside would solve the problem, yes. Classic Quake way to deal with secret rooms.

I've played your map only once so far, so I did spot the quad all by myself. Honestly, it's not so hard to find, all you have to do is look around the room, and the way to access it is pretty obvious too. It really shouldn't count as a secret IMHO.

I don't think you need to make your secrets easier. They're already all easy to find if the player pays attention. I kinda suck at finding secrets but I found almost all of them. It took me a few seconds to figure out what that button behind the crates opened but it was really easy too. At any rate, you should make some secrets harder to find (but not too hard either). I missed the one in the LG room but I'm sure I would have spotted it another time. If there's no challenge in a secret, there's little satisfaction out of finding it.

If you need playtesters, a good way to find some would be to upload your map on this site as a work-in-progress. 
I mean I made another way to access this rocket jump secret, there will be illusionary path to it also, and that's why I changed its message text to "Illusionary/Rocket jump secret". Don't confuse it to silver key illusionary secret that is near the GK.

You're maybe right, maybe it's good to leave that quad damage on control center not secret, like it is now.

So you say, you even spotted last silver key behind that illusionary wall? I must be one of few who actually notice it (even though I made it very obvious, because that broken grate) and light coming through that wall a bit.

I will post shared link to my work-in-progress map, when there is more stuff than just one new area which consists one hallway and one smallish room. Also when map is starting to get bigger, there is more room for more intellectual secrets (harder secrets). I just needed to fill gaps in this smallish vision, so it felt bigger than what it really was. 
"I must be one of few who actually notice it..."
You must be*

sorry my typos >_> 
And that earlier was posted by me.. Time to go bed, let the tomorrow be better day for me. 
Oh, OK, you mean in the new version you're making.

The silver key is very easy to see, it literally shines through the grate! I think maybe you should put solid walls there instead of grates. The dark alcove surrounded by big red upward arrows is invitation enough to explore it, I believe. I don't know, can anyone else give some input on this? 
Ha ha, yeah, I think I'd remember if I had written this! OK, good night. 
So I woke up, and had awful headache* Maybe because of that Sauna.. but anyway. I have to make list of all these things needs to be done, otherwise I will forget something. Checklist: first priority -> make checklist. 
"Checklist: First Priority -> Make Checklist." 
Ha ha ha! 
At least your headache doesn't impair your sense of humor. 
In game business I have even experienced that sometimes when I even talk "seriously", everyone things I'm joking or something. That is the most embarrassing feeling to experience, when you don't even get it in that situation right away that they are laughing to what you said or did* But overall, I try to be humorous just because I can, and my language-barrier makes it even funnier for some people. 
Speaking Of, Where Are You From? 
From Finland, the country which nobody takes seriously. 
...And you wonder why people think you're funny even when you're serious! xD I take at least one of your fellow compatriots seriously: Olivia Merilahti, lead singer of french band The Do. If you like original pop-rock, you should check them out. Their first two albums are very good, the third one a little less. 
It might match with my taste, though personally I'm not into soft beats, unless it has some good melodies or meaning behind. It feels like many bands run out of ideas when it comes to writing songs. This is one of reasons why it is impossible for me to have only one favorite band. But I guess this went to off-topic* 
Well they do have ideas. Check their first two albums, I'm sure you won't regret it. But yeah, we better stop veering off-topic if we don't want to get trashed. The rules seem pretty strict on this board. 
N00b Question 
I'm guessing the answer is yes, but just to be sure: If I make a map in one editor, can I open it and modify it in other editors without issues? Until I switch to Windows 7 and TB 2.0, I might have to use Radiant or WC for some features lacking in TB 1.16. 
The only incompatibility is the Valve220 map format. TB2, WC, J.A.C.K, Quark support it. Radiant and TB1.x don't.

As far as I know WC/J.A.C.K can only save in 220 format so switching between those editors and TB2 should be fine, but you will probably have issues switching between WC/J.A.C.K and TB1. 
Thanks, Eric 
OK, I guess I'll go with Radiant if needed, then. Valve220 is for... Valve games, I suppose? I'm mapping for Q1 anyway, so it doesn't concern me. Wait, since when WC is Valve-exclusive? I remember it was once THE editor of reference for Quake. 
I don't know will this help you, but I mostly make everything on Trenchbroom 2 beta, but cylinders, spiral stairs etc. I make in J.A.C.K, it's like a radiant. I haven't received any issues so far, so I would recommend something like that - if you prefer more working on TB's 3d view but need some complex brushes too, use J.A.C.K it is quite easy to use. 
In Trenchbroom 2, there is couple bugs, but those are easy to avoid. One of bug, which might be already fixed, anyway - if you undo your events, it sometimes crashes, so remember save constantly. And also something weird happened me back then, when making brushes in J.A.C.K I have to open them in TB1 not TB2, then save it in TB1, and open it TB2. I said something wrong version.. but that way I made it to work. And again I'm not sure if these issues are already fixed. 
Let's Try Correct My Terrible Text 
..then save it in TB1, and finally open it TB2. TB's console said something invalid something.. but anyway it opened in TB1 and I was able to save it. 
I'd Like To Know Which Editor The More Prolific Mappers On Here Use 
I prefer radiant because I like the control, albeit at a cost of speed, but as a novice that doesn't seem to have too much of an impact. However, complex multi-vert manipulation, as seen in czg's curve tut, isn't very practical/possible, unless I'm missing something.

TB seems like a very nice editor but I just prefer ortho 90% of the time. 
J.A.C.K is pretty much like Radiant. TB2 beta has ortho view also, but doesn't have much functionality - just about that grid snapping when it comes to those top, down, side views. 
I use TB 1.16 because I'm still under WinXP and apparently TB 2 doesn't like XP (I've tried).
I remember trying WC and Radiant back in the day but I quit because these programs weren't user-friendly enough for me. TB is, so I'm finally getting to it after 20 years. And now that I'm getting acquainted with the tools, I might be able to get used to Radiant. 
Isn't it written in the readmes? Which editor they build their maps on? 
"Nobody reads readmes"
From CZG07.txt 
* Construction *

Base : Scratch
Editor(s) : WorldCraft, Paint Shop Pro 6, WALly, Maketex.exe, Tex-Mex, CoolEdit, Notepad, Proqcc. 
From DOPA_readme.txt 
Editor used: WorldCraft 3.3 
From 768_spirit.txt 
Editor(s) used: QuArK 
From SKSP2.txt 
Editor: TrenchBroom 1.1.1 Build 368 / Hammer 3.5 
...of other useful information in those readmes, it's a shame to miss it. 
Isn't it written in the readmes? Which editor they build their maps on?

I can't remember the last time I read a readme. I suppose that's my problem right there.

Interesting lack of radiant use... 
Is func_detail recognized by every modern compiler? or is it Tyrutils only feature? I never used other compilers, so I don't know if they have this "feature" implemented.

Guys you should consider combining all your thoughts into one post instead of multiple one-sentence posts every 5 minutes. And keep debates about headache and being funny in PM messages.
It looks like chat now, it's hard to search through this thread later, when you need specific information but you face wall of text instead...

I'm not ranting, just an idea how to make life easier ;) 
func_detail is also in rebb's ( 
And keep debates about headache and being funny in PM messages.

Do you mean you're not enjoying the PooHouse and Cumdump show??? It's so good it brought me out of retirement! 
I know I'm not. I find the stream of near useless 2 sentence posts that have appeared in multiple threads highly distracting.

I'm not at all in favor of banning people, but I don't think a posts per day limitation on new users would bother me. 
Quite honestly the forum should just be moderated. If it's obvious that drivel/chat posts will get deleted, then the perpetrators might learn to stay on-topic and put some fucking effort in maybe. 
So now on I will immediately suggest using my email for these conversations. Unfortunately the best feedback comes(after some time) when people can talk freely. So I apologise that my language-barrier or wall of text doesn't mean anything to you guys, mostly because it really wasn't targeted to you. I know myself that well, that now on I will jump right into email and will stop responding to messages in here. 
Ps. Watch your mouth Kinn. Some new here just wanted to be talkative. Why not talk about this like adults with them. I know people can learn from mistakes, anyway your way of speaking is in many cases quite negative or at least it sounds like it. 
"Interesting Lack Of Radiant Use" 
Well that was just a few examples, I'm sure we can find maps made using Radiant. Not every readme has this kind of details, though. 
But yeah, Mugwump if you want to chat more about something here is my one email mikkou9 ( at ) gmail ( dot ) com 
Max Efrags 
I thought I had max edicts, this is new for me.
What�s going on, to much Efrags= 
Found It 
caused by having entities (typically torches) too close to oreven partly inside solid walls. 
Noted. I wouldn't give my e-mail openly over the internet like that but I'll send you a mail. 
Alright, so here's a weird one.

Basically, there's a point (really, a whole vertical plane) in my map that sends you into the void--whether you're "in" the map or not.

It's kind of hard to describe so I uploaded a video:

As you can see, if you move away from the blue bridge structure towards the blackness, you pass into the grey void without actually reaching the end of the box--and as I demonstrate later, this happens outside of the map bounds as well. Actually, you're technically taken to the *other* side of the map--as if you'd gone so far in one direction that you looped around to the other (like what happens when you fall through a hole in an unsealed map).

I *don't* think it's because I exceeded normal map size limits (that's what those colored lines are supposed to represent in TrenchBroom, right?). I've already ruled out holes, at least those that BSP can detect, having tracked them all down with pointfiles and removed them. Any ideas? 
That really does look like hitting up against the hard limits of map size, actually. I'm not aware of any coloured lines in TrenchBroom that represent the bounds of the map, either, just the set that extends out from the origin along the various axes. My advice would be to spawn an entity out there and check its "origin" key values, or use the viewpos command to check the player's own coordinates.

If you're not actually outside the map bounds, i'm totally stumped. 
I had this issue when I exceeded the 4000 from origin limit 
That might be it, although those flames are just past 4000 units from origin (e.g. one of them is at -224 4048 460 according to TB).

The colored lines are visible here:
I thought I read somewhere they extend as far as some (extended) limit but I guess they're just the axes. To be honest, I thought the map size was a bit bigger.

There are bigger maps though, like ORL's Zeangala... how does that work? 
Might Leave It In As An "easter Egg" 
cause it's a super secret area that I doubt many of the ten whole people who will play the map will get to, and they'd fall to their deaths if they jumped from there anyway. :P 
You could Select ALL and drift the entire map's contents a bit away from the boundary limit. 
4096 is the actual limit, not 4000. 
Arcane Dimensions & Func_rotates 
I have been reading ad docs, especially trying to figure out how to make door open in a way.. I can specify origin where door rotates 90 degrees, and probably will just stay open after triggering, because if it spins back after some time "wait", it should notice if it touches players or enemies so it goes back to open..

Noir thmemed map, wooden doors might look stupid if they just moves inside walls. 
Arcane Dimensions & Func_rotates.. 
Sorry typos.. anyway there is multiple options..
'func_rotate_door' + 'info_rotate' might be things I should use? 
You can use sv_protocol 999 console command in the latest Quakespasm, 0.92.0. That expands the quake boundary limit from +-4096 to +-32678. There's no special compiling tools or commands to use either, just set sv_protocol to 999, restart the map, and you should be golden. 
Thanks ORL! I took Bloughsburgh's advice (thanks!), but that is good to know in case I ever get crazy enough to make a really huge map. (Btw, Cataractnacon/Zeangala is one of my top Quake releases ever! So thanks for that too!) 
Thank you, it makes me happy to hear you enjoyed those maps. Don't be afraid to make some really huge background scenery for your own maps, now that you have the freedom to do so. :) 
Func_skip, Func_ignore 
Hey guys.

I need a brush entity that will be in the map file, but completely ignored by qbsp. Is there any already?

What about using the skip texture? If I cover a brush with "skip" completely, none of its planes will make it to BSP. But what are the side effects? Any unused remains of data in BSP structure?

Or better put: if I cover a brush with skip texture completely, BSP will be exactly the same as if that brush was never there? 
Skip texture merely skips adding those faces to the visible world model. The brush will syill affect collision, leafs, portals, and brush splitting.

For instance, put a skip wall across a hallway and there will be a line with the hall of mirrors HOM where the brush touches the other walls. Also it will block the player, bullets, line of sight, etc.

Maybe you need func_detail. That makes it such that it ignores that brush for vis leaf generation in qbsp then lumps it in with the world as a normal brush.

Else maybe you need an info_null brush. It would help if you specified your goal. 
I need a brush entity that will be in the map file, but completely ignored by qbsp. Is there any already?

Do you need a brush entity? If you have an entity with no brushes, isn't that a point entity? Why does it need to be a brush entity? 
Sorry, I Should Explain 
My goal is to use VMFII / ItEndWithTens' func_instance entity to make most of my level.

I created a modular greybox of the level. Each part will be replaced by a real asset: a corridor section, a junction, a 45 degree curve, etc.

The func_instance entity is a point entity. That would force me to have 80% of my level made of tiny pink boxes in the middle of nowhere.

So, I tried to turn each of my greybox blocks into a func_entity, to be replaced by the "production" corresponding prefabs. I changed func_entity's class from @PointClass to @SolidClass, but the code then positions the prefab at (0, 0, 0). I believe it's due to the absence of "origin" property in brush entities. I then tried to add an "origin" property by hand, but JackHammer keeps renaming it to origin#1, origin#2, ... seems that there is a hidden "origin" property on brush entities that I'm not allowed to manipulate.

So, I was considering a workaround: what if my greybox assets were some "func_skip" to stay in the source .MAP as a visual reference, but to be skipped by qbsp? I would use this func_skip along with func_instance.

This is, obviously, not the cleaner solution. If someone has any other idea...

Looks like func_instance was meant to be used for specific assets in a level, not most of its geometry. But that would be very handy. 
Actually Not So Bad Idea 
For example if I have a lot same kind of things like.. specific statues/pillars etc. , it would be so easy to just modify one and all others updates themselves at the same time. But I assume that is editor specific feature then.. There is already layers.. even groups in TB, but haven't figured out how much things you can do with them.. Are you using J.A.C.K? 
The Quake engine just isn't designed around this kind of map development. You would have a lot of trouble lighting, vising and in general would struggle with actually making a map in such a way.
Modern game engines can do a lot more "dynamic" computation at runtime, which is why they can use such techniques to build their levels from sets of prefab'd assets, and on top of that their compilers will work with that in mind as well and operate as if the objects were actually in place.

Besides, I can't see a good level coming out of this technique. Unless you build a unique prefab for every part of your level (which is the same as just building it the normal way) you will end up with a bland creation that looks copy-pasted and repetitive...
What NewHouse is talking about with easily duplicating detailed brushwork for small parts of an area is fine, but due to the technical issues I raised above is best done using something like TrenchBroom's group functionality or by turning all relevant brushes into some kind of func_ that can be selected all at once. 
Ok, But 
No guys, I'm using func_instance, developed for Half Life and modified by our buddy ItEndsWithTens here. It's a .map preprocessing, before compiling. It has the needed features, works great, it's tried and true.

Pritchard, it's all a matter of balance. I can compose a unique room out of prefab chunks, use a corridor section multiple times with different lighting, etc, the way it's done with modern engines. 
Hmm... I see. I still don't think it's a good idea, but it's really up to you and if done well it can come close to rivalling entirely hand-made maps.

Sadly i'm not sure how you could avoid the pink boxes issue, you might just have to live with it. I think that there would need to be significant changes to how entities and brushes work in Quake to make it possible to replace brushes like that, especially if the current pre-processor isn't meant to do that. 
Wider Solutions 
I worry that you might be trying to solve the problem in the wrong place. If you've having trouble in the editor seeing what a func_instance represents, perhaps that's something that the editor should provide support for.

Having said that, the .map file is a pretty straight-forward text format. So I'd imagine it would be possible to create a script in e.g. Python which removes the brushes from func_instance entities, and run it prior to qbsp. This might be a better solution for the specific problem at hand than a modification to qbsp itself. 
Yes, it is.

And yes, that's what I'll end up trying to do, considering I don't know and don't care to know about C#. Python seems the right choice.

I just e-mailed Rob (aka ItEndWithTens) about his func_instance entity. More info and more brains on it doesn't hurt. 
The only place I've extensively used instances for major portions of a map is in Half-Life 2, where Hammer supports the display of instance contents in the editor (even though you need an external utility to compile the maps, since the singleplayer HL2 compilers don't support the entity). Building an entire map out of them when all you can see is little pink boxes is beyond my level of patience. :)

Support for instances would need to be added to editors for the idea to really work well. I know Xaerox has mentioned a passing interest in adding support to Jack for instances, "adding .map as another model format" or something to that effect, but I don't imagine it's a priority for him, or anyone else. Also, as Pritchard has said, you don't want to end up with that "snapped together from prefab 128-unit cubes" look so many games have; instances are useful for all sorts of things, but I wouldn't personally recommend making the whole map out of modular sections.

Nonetheless, I'm not looking to force a mapping philosophy on users by way of the tool, so I suppose I could add support for something like what you're describing. For example, and I'm just brainstorming here, maybe users could specify an entity type on the command line they'd like removed from their top-level map. Tie your placeholder geometry to a custom entity in your editor, say "func_greybox" for argument's sake, then run Quinstance with your usual parameters plus --remove_entity func_greybox and simply have it kept out of the final, collapsed .map file.

I need to get a couple of bug fixes released anyway, I could take a look at adding this at the same time. I'll give it a shot myself, but does this sound like an approach you'd find useful? 
Never Mind My Question! 
Whether you'll find it useful or not is a moot point, as I've just finished adding an entity removal option. :D I'll update the actual Quinstance thread later on, but for now the release is available for everyone to play with: Quinstance 0.3.0

Please do let me know how many things are horribly broken! 
Yes, very useful. I was getting ready to implement a new tool, but that's awesome, gonna try it right away.

Thanks, man. 
@Tens: Bug 
My func_greybox instances were removed, but there is a problem. This is how the prefab is supposed to look, but when I place func_instance like this it appears like this

Looks like intersection between the func_instance and another func_ is f..king the whole thing. 
- of course there is one. I positioned func_instance 32 units under the func_greybox and lifted the prefab 32 units in its .map

Intersection avoided, everything works. Bug reported. :) 
Damn it, that's disappointing. Would you be willing to send me the files so I could take a look? 
Just sent you. 
Turns out I was screwing up. It works fine. Thanks, Tens. 
Ain't No Thang 
You're welcome, any time! As I mentioned in my email to Adib, the test map he sent along revealed by way of no harm another bug, unrelated to the issue at hand, so I'm throwing together version 0.3.1 for release sometime today. When it's done I'll go update my own thread, if anyone's interested. 
Out of pure curiosity, what was the screw-up? 
I used the -r switch on a test map but wasn't using on the real map. Greybox asset and production asset were clipping each other. 
Twilight Zone 
Something weird. If I travel in one direction inside my map, at some point everything disappear and I'm on the other end of the map's working area in JACK. I mean, outside the level, looking at the level from a distance, as if I'm teleported to zero or something.

Like I'm blowing a limit and being teleported around to the other side.

I already tried to use Arcane Dimensions settings (if it works for Swampy, gonna work for my level):

-heapsize 256000 -zone 4096

and even tried to increase zone to 8192. No luck.

Does anybody know what's happening? 
Is it close to map boundaries regardless of the settings you are using? 
You're moving more than 4096 units away from the centre of the world would be my guess, i.e. your map exceeds Quake's normal limits. The same thing would happen in any map if you were to move long enough in one direction using noclip.

If it just happens on one side of the map, it might mean that you simply need to centre your brushwork, i.e. select everything in-editor and move it to a more central position.

Unless I completely misunderstood what you meant. 
Bloughs And Total_Newbie 
Yes, it's close to map boundaries and it's close to 4096, but about these heapsize and zone settings, don't they take care of it? 
No, the only ways you can fix it are:

1) make sure you move your brushes away from the limit on all sides


2) if your map is too large and exceeds the limit in two opposite directions, you can use an engine that supports protocol 999 (like current versions of Quakespasm). 
*as far as I know, I should add. I could be talking utter nonsense.

I should perhaps have waited for a more experienced and knowledgeable person to answer, but I sometimes get all giddy when I actually (think I) know the answer to something (as opposed to just asking lots of basic questions, which is what I usually do around here). "Ooh, ooh! I know this one!"

But yeah, to the best of my knowledge, that was the point of adding protocol 999 to QS, because there's no other way a map that exceeds the +-4096 limit (like ORL's Zeangala) is going to be playable. 
Adib: just realised a very similar discussion took place just a few days ago:

Sorry for posting thrice in a row. 
+sv_protocol 999 Or +protocol 999 Depending On Engine 
I'm Back 
I am opening fteqccgui.exe in mac with wine, but I don't know if my problem is this compiler or are the qc files I downloaded, I can't compile fine; because all qc files have string errors and using /**/ I cannot solve my problem.
Coding Issues Should Go In Coding Help But 
What is the error saying? 
Leak But Not A Leak? 
I just noticed today that an area of my map that I "finished" a while ago had a leak in it. Which is strange, because it's sealed, and I can run vis on it. Here's what I mean:
Exhibit A
And here's what it looks like in the editor:
Exhibit B

Now, like I said, the map is still considered sealed. It won't generate a pointfile, and although I haven't let vis finish because it takes a while now, that will start and complete the base vis without any issues.

So, I ended up fixing it by adding a new brush to cover the area over, but the whole thing made me curious as to what it was that caused this in the first place. Any ideas? Has anyone seen this before, any way to reliably reproduce?

As a side note, how concerned should I be about warnings about things such as efrags and marksurfaces? My map breaks both of those limits and gives warnings on developer 1. Same for missing textures; the console reports 20 missing textures, but I've never encountered them playing the map so it seems superfluous. 
That happens reasonably often - bsp just sharts out a harmless random HOM for no real reason. Best solution is just to slightly change the brushwork in that location and see if it goes away. 
About Custom Wads 
If I create a custom wad for a map and later add more textures to that wad in order to enrich my map, will the map still use the wad's old textures correctly without glitches or errors? 
the only thing that matters are texture names, so you can add later as many textures as you want. 
I have a map in Tesseract. Not having to worry about breaking my map by adding textures anywhere other than the end of the list (so basically deciding everything you want to use at the start) is such a nice difference in Quake mapping. Only issue here is name conflicts but I'm pretty sure they're resolved based on the order they're in then which is fine... 
Or just ignore and release anyway. Stupid steps in my terracity map never could get that missing tri to show up. It's like qbsp thinks the face is invalid.

It could be the .map exporter. I never have trusted it in any single bsp style editor I've used. Hammer/Source Engine, Worldcraft, J.A.C.K, all of them I distrust for providing accuracy of each vertex. Just create some wierd angle geometry, export to .map. Import the map, and you may notice some brushes are invalid or missing. 
I similar thing happened to me at one point in making my map. No holes, but after I compiled the BSP there was a nice fat hole where a rock should have been. I just adjusted one of its vertices in the editor and it went away next compile. 
So, I've spent a few hours in PhotoShop, customizing colored textures into pure black and white versions without greys, Sin City style. But when I try to import them in TexMex, the program sends a "file type not supported" message. I've tried with jpg and tga versions but it refuses them both. Ideas? 
generally i do a ctrl-c from photoshop and then ctrl-v into texmex, for each image. 
I use gimp and export as tga.

There are some wonky ass tools out there for quake asset editing, mostly because of the age of the tools and the formats. 
so much errors in my qc files, but I remember so much "not a name" 
"generally i do a ctrl-c from photoshop and then ctrl-v into texmex, for each image." Yeah, that works, but it's tedious to say the least! I have several dozens of textures to import and TexMex is supposed to support batch import. 
Spot The Nailgun 
So, recently I got a demo of my level (thanks ericw!) and in it the player missed a weapon that they pretty much need to have.
See it?

The problem is entirely my fault, as far as i'm concerned; it's just too damn hard to see the nailgun as you're moving through the area. Unless you spend enough time there to notice it, the approach and subsequent movement paths mean that you have a higher chance of finding it by accidentally picking it up than actually seeing it.

Eric suggested that I use a flickering light to draw more attention to the area, which I might try, but I thought I'd ask here to see if anyone else has some suggestions for me to try. 
Flickering Lights Are Tricky 
I tend to overlook them because they're much more often used as simple decorations rather than hints at goodies/secrets. You could try a light of a different color, maybe? Or if it's not a secret there are many solutions. You could for example point a spotlight at the nailgun, or place it on some sort of pedestal. 
It's already under a spotlight and on a "pedestal" of sorts, although I may give it a proper pedestal rather than a different style of flooring as it is right now.
I'm planning to increase the brightness of the spotlight to hopefully make the model stand out a bit more.

I feel like a strobe flicker would definitely catch people's attention, but I haven't had a chance to try it out yet and it might be too intense an effect. 
Or put a brighter texture behind it so it stands out more against the background. Almost black on almost black is evidently no good for visibility. 
Create a huge fullbright red arrow pointing on this weapon. Add func_train on it, so it's going up and down. Additionally huge trigger covering half of your map, announcing every 2 sec, that there will be a very important weapon to pick up soon.

Utilizing this techniques, you posses all the knowledge needed for professional LD in 2017. 
Tone down the blue lights - they cast a lot of light but the actual light source is dim. Are you using delay 0 on them?

Then, when the area gains contrast and shadows, put a torch next to the nailgun. Nothing extraordinary, just something to provide extra light and stand out from the blue. 
And For Heaven's Sake 
Sort out your Quake resolution, it looks like you resized your screenshot in MSPaint. 
How about a pulsing (rather than flickering) light, placed exactly where the weapon is -- so that that emanates a pulsing glow? Then you kill the light as the weapon is picked up (that's possible in standard Quake, right?).

Another solution (which I suspect you would not want) would be to just move the gun so that it lies unavoidably in the path of the player...

PS: The map looks beautiful, judging by this and other screenshots (in the Screenshots & Betas thread). 
Lol, khreathor. So true.

I think it has made for some very dumb players also. 
A compromise

I tried a few suggestions, but I ended up just moving the gun so that it's in a slightly different area. Hopefully this works better for players, they'll probably at least see the health which should help draw them to the NG. Flashing lights seem too severe for this, and besides, they can't be toggled in vanilla quake as far as I know.

otp: I'm not really sure what happened to that screenshot. Ericw sent it to me, and the version he sent me is a much higher resolution. No idea how it got all mangled like that when I reuploaded, oh well. I tried your advice on relighting the area, but there just wasn't any way to get the NG to stand out against the rock of the background, and changing the brushes too much in this area is a really big pain since it was the first rockwork/trisoup I ever did and it's a mess. Ended up moving the gun, like I said. 
Custom Sound? 
Maybe I should make a recording of me chanting "Nail Gun... Nail Gun..." and load it as a custom sound in the map to play next to the pickup. Or I could teleport the player to the nailgun if they try and leave it behind. Maybe I'll write some custom QC to make the nailgun follow the player until they pick it up.

Maybe I should just let people fuck up \o/ 
Maybe put a spotlight texture under the gun? 
Killing Lights 
Is it possible to use trigger_once to kill a light entity?

I tried testing what I proposed in #17126 above and made a small test map with a nailgun, a light and a trigger_once. I gave the trigger_once a killtarget value "lightkill", and gave the light the targetname "lightkill".

When I tried to compile this map, I got a "Segmentation fault" error message. I thought this was unrelated to the entities in the map, but when I turned the trigger_once back into a world brush, the map compiled fine ... so it would seem that I did something wrong when trying to kill a light with a trigger_once.

Can someone explain what I did wrong? 
Like so?
I think that actually looks nice, and helps a little bit more too. Good idea :)

On a rather off-topic note, does anyone know a good tool to quickly convert from tga to jpg or png? It's annoying to have to open GIMP before I can upload a screenshot. 
total_newbie: As far as I know you can't kill a light. I think light entities are removed from the map at compile time unless they're supposed to be interacted with in some way, perhaps if they have a style... Not sure. In any case, the only way I know to turn a light off is to target it, not killtarget it.

onetruepurple: IrfanView! I used to have it on my system, it went away with the Win10 upgrade as M$ borked my PC and I had to reinstall things. Works a charm, thanks! 
Thanks, Pritchard 
the only way I know to turn a light off is to target it

How does that work? I guess it's not just a matter of giving the light a targetname and having something else target it, right?

I just tried that with a trigger_once and got the same result as before (i.e. compiler gave me a segmentation fault error message -- which I'm still not sure is not the result of something else, but so far it seems to correlate with my trying to get entities to do things they can't do).

Not sure what your map looks like, I just whipped this up though. Feel free to take a look or compile it yourself (make sure to replace the wad with a path to the original quake wad on your own computer)

Just a simple button that targets a single light. The only keys i've changed are the target/targetname. 
Thanks Very Much 
Yeah, that compiles fine on my end and works as intended. When I try the same thing with a trigger_once instead of a button, though, I get the segfault error when I try to compile.

Also: when I change the light style in your map to slow pulse, the button no longer has any effect in-game; the light just stays on. It still compiles, though. So I guess one can only switch standard, non-pulsing and non-flickering lights on and off?

Does anyone know why I can't switch off a light with a trigger_once? 
"Maybe I'll write some custom QC to make the nailgun follow the player until they pick it up."

That would be hilarious! "Pick me, pick me, ooh, ooh, please pick me!" And make it hop behind the player with cartoony boing-boing sounds. 
I'm pretty sure you can't turn a light off or on if it has any style other than the default. I remember trying that once before.

You should be able use a trigger_once though. The light needs a targetname and it will toggle off/on every time it's triggered. I have definitely done it with a trigger_relay activated by a trigger_once. 
Quakespasm 0.92.1 +sv_protocol 999 +map 
Thanks guys. Problem solved.

I should centralize the level anyway.


1- QuakeSpasm 0.90.1 doesn't have 999 as a protocol. Update your QS;

2- The +sv_protocol switch must come before +map on command line. 
Just My 0.02 
I should centralize the level anyway.

If you haven't done this yet, I'd say that should be first priority. Requiring protocol 999 (or bsp2, for that matter) when it isn't actually necessary seems like a very messy solution...

(I mean, technically one could make even e1m1 require protocol 999 by moving the entire map to the +/-4096 boundary.) 
Move E1m1 To The 4096 Boundary 
That would be neat prank actually. 
Ahh! Found It! I Found Pritchard's Nailgun! 
That was hard to spot. 
You could place the nailgun over a hole, put a really bright light in the bottom of the hole, then hide the hole by filling it with a func_wall. If too much light escapes the hole, make it a spotlight. 
What light tool / version are you using? I can't reproduce that in my tool.

Generally segfaults are always bugs in the compile tool, rather than the mapper's fault.

So I guess one can only switch standard, non-pulsing and non-flickering lights on and off? Right. It's just a limitation of the vanilla progs.dat though, this could be done with modified QC. 
Everything I Have Is About Three Versions Out Of Date... 
Generally segfaults are always bugs in the compile tool, rather than the mapper's fault.

Ah, ok, thanks for clearing that up.

I'm using your tools, but I have v0.15.4.

If you want, I'll upgrade and see if I can reproduce the issue.

What I really should/want to do, though, is get all of my tools up to date, but my primary tool, namely TB2, I don't know how to update short of a fresh OS install (which I'm reluctant to do at the moment) -- see my query in the TB thread
If you're on Windows, you can delete the TB folder, remove its entries in the registry and reinstall it. I can't tell for OSX or Linux. 
ah ok, that explains the light crash :-)
Upgrading should fix that. Let me know if you need help building it on Linux. 
Thanks, ericw.

I seem to have run into a problem already, but I think it's something I messed up and has nothing directly to do with Tyrutils-ericw.

A bit of background:
A few days ago, I tried to install something called Drupal. I really want to learn how to build websites, and I read online that you can use Drupal to build a website pretty much from scratch. So I found it in the Mint/Ubuntu repositories and tried to install it, but something went wrong during the installation process (there were some steps I didn't understand, and I chose the wrong options or something), and now it isn't installed properly, but I can't seem to remove it either.

So, now:

When I tried building the latest version of tyrutils-ericw, I needed to install cmake -- but when I try to install cmake, the Drupal installation process tries to resume, and then fails again. As a result I can't get cmake installed.

Not that I expect you to know how to solve this problem, but maybe you'll at least be amused at how badly someone who knows next to nothing about the computer they're trying to use can screw things up. 
don't worry, Linux package management just sucks..
what's the error?
I have hit the same thing on debian/ubuntu before, there's some magic flag to make apt-get work usually. also maybe we should move this to the OS thread...? 
Or Tyrutils-ericw Thread 
Is it possible to apply a color attribute to an entity that is not a light? Lemme explain: I have this idea of recreating the two fish scene from Coppola's Rumble Fish. This would require having one fish tinted red and the other blue. Would I have to retexture them or can I achieve this just with a color attribute? 
I'm pretty sure a retexture is in order, I don't think quake has any tinting keys by default, or in any mod that I know of. 
Damn! Incidentally, I guess it would also require altering the progs.dat to have two versions of rotfish, right? 
I wouldn't know specifically about that, I've never looked into quake modding in that sense, but I'd hazard a guess and say yeah, you'd need to do that. 
Typically yes, you need custom progs, but you might be able to use some functions from other mobs instead of it's normal AI.

The progs whisperer preach would probably know more about this than me. 
I sure could use a progs whisperer! I'm a total n00b about QC and I would need to know the exact syntax, where to put the new code inside the file, etc... I don't even know how to edit that file. 
*I meant how to open it. 
"The Progs Whisperer Preach" 
No Code Required 
Just add the blue skin to the model, then use the key "skin" "1" on the ones you want to be alternative colours. It's like a map hack, only you need a mod to make use of it. 
OK but like I said, I need two versions at the same time, one blue and one red. Would that be "skin" "1" and "skin" "2"? And where do I specify that? In the progs? In the map editor? Sorry but I'm a total n00b in that matter, I don't even know what a map hack is. 
skin|0 uses normal skin
skin|1 if model has 2nd skin use skin 1, else skin 0.

The trick is to add skins to the model and put that fish.mdl in your progs folder. Then any monster_fish that you've added the key|value of skin|1 or skin|2 (if you have a 3rd skin) will use the new skins.

Note the programmer counting:
skin 0 = 1st skin
skin 1 = 2nd skin
skin 2 = 3rd skin
skin n = nth skin 
How To Add Custom Skins To Enemies 
key|value is specified in your map editor same as you would targetname. If using J.A.C.K/Worldcraft, turn off the SmartEdit button to add key|value pairs manually. The key is the name of the variable to assign, the value is the assignment.

Depending on mod support, the key may be overwritten by a default in the qc programming though I don't believe it will in AD.

Skins can be created as a .png
Original skin can be accessed using:

-Drag and drop the fish.mdl into the webtool
-Drag the skin and drop it on your desktop
-Edit the skin in your 2D program of choice (e.g. Gimp)

Skins can be added back to the mdl by Preach's java package though it's horribly obfuscated how you actually use it. I have to figure it out on my own everytime.

Alternatively you can try AdQuedit but be careful with it since it will let you delete the C: drive. I have trouble getting the palette to load correctly anymore but you may have luck. 
Preach's Model Tool

Don't look at me. It's not clear how to use it. 
Thanks A Bunch, Qmaster! 
I'll try to see what I can do. I hope I'll pull it off. Your explanations are very clear anyway, so if I don't it'll be because of my own suckage.

"Depending on mod support, the key may be overwritten by a default in the qc programming though I don't believe it will in AD."
Good thing I'm planning this map for AD, then... 
Skin Numbering 
As QMaster mentioned, the skin numbering starts at 0, so if you create a model with two skins then they are numbered 0 and 1. Also, if you don't set the "skin" key, it defaults to "0". So you can skip setting it on half the fish, and just set it to "1" on the others.

For adding an extra skin, the easiest thing to do is download QME, which lets you edit models in a GUI.

If you're using AD, then that's going to be an issue, because you can't install a new fish model in someone else's mod. You'd need your own copy of the mod with the fish added. 
Thanks Preach 
Duly noted.

I'll take it one step at a time. Make my fish first, I'll worry about including them in AD later. 
Isn't this for the noir jam? There are other custom skins being made for it, like that dapper-looking grunt. I'd imagine the fish can just be added the same as them, unless it's working differently for them because it's a replacement. 
Yes It Is 
I'll ask Shamblernaut when I'm done with my fish. They won't be a total replacement, though, I intend to keep the regular skin if I use other fish as enemies. These two will be unique in the map and won't be actual enemies, only a fullbright visual treat locked inside an aquarium (I'll also need to figure out if it's possible to remove them from the frag count).

Anyway, I don't think my map will be ready for the deadline, fish or no fish. I'll see with Shamblernaut if it's possible to release it as a DLC when it's done. 
Can Somebody Explain This? 
So, I was making a preliminary test for the Rumble Fish/Sin City-inspired map I have planned when I noticed something weird.

To enhance the comic book feel, I made a set of solid white textures with black outlines and solid black textures with white outlines. Used the latter in a box room to see how they looked in-game.

Everything looked good at first:
But when I got closer to a corner and looked up, I saw this:
It also happens on a floor texture I converted to pure B&W. It looks fine around the player but have a look at the part I circled:

What's the deal?

If pics aren't clear enough and you want to take a closer look, here's the bsp with the source map included (made for AD): 
That kind of looks like anisotropy. I'm not sure what the deal with that is in Quake engines these days, though. If it is what's causing it, then there's no fix. You can't force users to filter. 
Mipmapping probably 
And The Winner Is... 
Pritchard! It was a brand new install made specifically for my mapping works and I had forgotten to set anisotropic filtering. It was set to 1, which would be the default I guess. I set it to 8 like I always do and the issue disappeared.

Pritchard, here's your prize: a coupon allowing you to facepalm me if we ever meet in person. 
looks like mipmapping 
Lol Its Both 
The Anisotropy is for the floor but I believe it allows the mipmapping to take place further away. You could probably remip those textures, esp the wall. If you didn't remip them then it will use the old full detail texture (albeit scaled down), you can do it in Wally. I think there is an option for Remip all actually. 
Anisotropic filtering fixed my corner overhead too.

Actually, it was TexMex that generated the mipmaps from the full-size textures. I did notice they looked slightly wonky in TexMex but I attributed it to the display method, like when you use a font in Word in a small size. You say Wally can do better? 
Do you have a link for Wally? I googled it and found a wallpaper changer.

I use Wally for packing WADs, TexMex is driving me nuts...
Shame that Slade can't pack Quake WADs, it's a very good tool. 
Thanks, Khreathor 
You can turn off the auto remipping option in TexMex. I don't know what happens if you do. Does then engine just create them on the fly? 
Pretty sure fitzquake/QS ignores the mipmaps in the bsp, software engines use them though.
Not sure about glquake and other gl engines. 
QS Is The Engine I Used For The Test. 
How can I make a button that doesn't move when it's pressed? Looking at the qc, a button that doesn't have the lip value set will default to a lip of 4, which means that setting lip to 0 essentially sets it to 4.

Does anyone know a way around this? I've been fiddling for a little while now with values and I can't find any values that work. 
signed zero may work. 
No dice :( 
if you make a worldspawn clone of the button and use hintskip, then texture only the face of the skip. Seems to work for me 
Raising Enemies 
I'm currently trying to make enemies rise out of a liquid for my map. Unfortunately I seem to be running into trouble with the func_door brushes stopping when they are obstructed by the enemy, although they eventually will succeed if triggered multiple times. Any advice on avoiding this? 
I Understood Some Of Those Words 
I have no idea how to make worldspawn clones of the brush or hintskip. It sounds hard :/ I ended up "solving" the problem by altering the brush behind the button so that z-fighting never happens when the brush moves back. 
Similar Idea 
Here's a link with the bjptools-phong files where you can grab the hintskip wad. You can texture the skip and it will be a nonsolid/textured brush in game. 
Non Moving Door 
Setting the lip equal to the thickness of the brush worked for me on a door used as a button. The brush is 16 units thick and the lip is set to 16. The movement is set to down (-1). 
I'm trying different things at this point, such as a func_train, but I still can't overcome the blocking issue posed by trying to lift flying monsters. Has anyone managed to do it in their map? :( 
Just a shot in the dark, but maybe func_plat would work? 
ERROR: Entity With No Valid Brushes 
Does anyone know what causes this? Tried to quickly test my suggestion to Pritchard above by making a simple map with a water brush, func_plat and a couple of monsters, plus a trigger_once. If I delete the trigger_once I still get the error (it happens when I try to compile the map).

Using the latest version of tyrutils-ericw and a slightly outdated version of TrenchBroom2, FWIW. 
Check file for stray entries I suppose. Also regular enemies should work fine. My issue is that I'm trying to move a flying enemy, so make sure you test that. (Specifically, the sentinel from Quoth)

Good luck :S 
I've just played the Arcane map found on Quaddicted and there's an exit teleporter rising from lava. Granted it's not monsters but if you can decompile it, maybe it could be of some help? 
TB2 Will Report Empty Brush Entities In The Issue Browser 
I created a wind tunnel as in figure A here:

The black lines are the geometry of the tunnel. The red box and blue box are two trigger_push volumes that push in the direction indicated by the arrows. The green line is the trajectory followed by the player.

I carefully calibrated the positioning and strength of the push volumes to give the player a perfect trajectory up the center of the vertical pipe.

All of a sudden, without me chaning the position or key values for the trigger_push volumes, the trajectory of the player in the tunnel changed to that in figure B (i.e. he collides with the roof of the tunnel before being blown upwards.

Does anyone have any idea why this might have happened? 
This is only my guess.. but try place them in a way they're not colliding each other, blue trigger is inside red one and that might be the case here... maybe.. 
Yeah the behavior when a player can touch two different trigger push entities at once is not reliable-- try adding some space between them 
Pritchard, you can move flying monsters easily enough with a moving object ...

Add this scrag to E4M5 in an external ent file and you could try it yourself.

"angle" "315"
"origin" "1511 -270 56"
"classname" "monster_wizard"
"spawnflags" "256"
Models Not Showing Up 
Hey guys. im new to the quake mapping and i need some help with trenchbroom. when i run trench none of the textures,models show up! please ask me if i need to give any details 
Using the stuff in your post in a .ent file made the map crash :/ but I went back and tried out func_plats in my map again, and unfortunately the results aren't as smooth as yours, and using func_plats is essentially impossible anyway.
You can see that there is still the issue of the plat glitching out at points where the flying entity interrupts it, although it eventually does reach the top as it is supposed to. I'm not sure what's different about the func_plat in e4m5, I looked at it and it's a pretty standard setup.

That brings me to my other point. How did you get the func_plat in e4m5 to work like it does in your video? A func_plat with a targetname will start at the raised position, and targetname-less ones need to be touched by the player to activate... 
I tried out another option, using path_corner and a blocker to stop the monster from moving, but there were two issues I found:

1) Quoth Sentinels can't move to path_corners, which is dumb and lame

2) Wizards can, but they won't ascend to reach them as far as I can tell, so it's totally useless.

So now i'm grumpy at Carmack AND Preach! >:(

Oh well. It would be nice to have this feature in my map, but it's really starting to annoy me how much time i'm wasting trying to figure out how to make it work... Going to do something else instead, like everyone else who had this idea probably did when they gave up. 
I froze all entities sv_freezenonclients 1 and stepped on the platform, then I walked off. And then I unfroze the entities.

I cheated a little. 
I also couldn't swear for sure that the scrag's interaction with the lift was smooth. I'd bet it wasn't.

But Mr. Scrag in my video is partially obscured and we can't really see him.

Flying monsters like Scrags do not smoothly move up and down.

Shoot and kill a scrag and watch him stutter fall. Quake is 10 frames per second for some types of interactions. For flying monsters it can just be more noticeable than the walking ones in some instances. 
I really can't get a break. I'm not posting this asking for help (pls dont ban for offtopic!!1!), but to share with you all the pain that my life has recently become.
I bit the bullet and spent a good chunk of my afternoon selecting and moving my brushes in TB, removing the outdoor passage entirely because it'd given me so much grief. It's been replaced by a short continuation of the cavern that opened out into it.

Much nicer, right? So simple, no hijinks or tomfoolery?

I Can't even take one step with this damned map before something breaks... ALL I WANT TO DO IS SOME SIMPLE BRUSHWORK ;-; 
@pancaked Are you using Trenchbroom 2.x or version 1?If version 2, when you go to the "Face" tab you should see at te very bottom of the tab "Texture collections". You can see it in this screenshot:

If you click on that then an extra part of the tab opens where you can load in your texture .WAD files.

Similarly, at the bottom of the entity tab is an expanding section to load entity definitions. 
Map Search 
I recall seeing a map(editor/sreenshot) that seemed like a start map that had 2 rows and 6 or so long of floating islands(geo) and each island was a different quake theme-seemed like the islands were off to the side 
How teleports works in AD? I read readme, but I'm just stupid because I can't make it work. = trigger_teleportdestination doesn't work for some reasons.. insteand target = info_target works, but I can't figure out how to specify direction, angle key doesn't do anything. Map-wise player runs to right, teleports, runs to left direction, How do I specify direction? 
Key:Angle Value:(0-359)
in a info_teleport_destination 
Does anyone know of a tool or any kind of method for turning a Valve 220 .map into a Standard map? I decided to try out using the format in TB for a new map, but it's more frustrating than useful with the way it handles textures etc... I don't want to throw away all my hard work so far though :/

If I had to lose some texture information or something that wouldn't be too bad, since the map is only at the beginning right now and is only 100~ brushes. 
Why Do You Want To Do That? 
Stuff like this, and texture lock in general doesn't seem to work very well. 
Which Map Editor? 
Posted this over at quaddicted already, but msgboard is still more active.

I'm wondering which editor you guys use for Q1. I'm just now wanting to check out Q1 mapping and am pretty confused by the number of editors out there and the fact that there is no standard editor like there is on the Source engine. What I'm gathering is that Worldcraft 1.6(a) is the standard? Is that true? I've also found an editor called "TrenchBroom". I tried it, but the controls and lack of 2D viewports is not intuitive to me, so I'd like to use Worldcraft since I'm coming from the Hammer editor on the Source engine. Wasn't Worldcraft 1.6a freeware? I can't find it anywhere.

What do you guys use? 
If you're keen on using a Hammer like editor, JACK is right up your alley. It offers many features that Hammer does and more, as well as a very similar user interface. 
If you like Hammer/Worldcraft, I suggest:
J.A.C.K. aka Jack Hammer

Another option is Radiant:
Setting Up - Using Radiant

Basically people use: Trenchbroom, JACK or Radiant. All of them are good and it only depends on your preferences. 
Everyone Here Uses All Sorts Of Different Editors 
Any of the following "big three" are fine. Try them all and see what you prefer.

- JACK - is worldcraft-based. In active development.
- NetRadiant - probably the best Radiant-based editor. No longer in active development
- TrenchBroom - for nuskool kool kidz or whatever. In active development.

I'm an old fart and always prefer Radiant, but if you're new to this just see what works for you. 
Beaten Goddamn! 
but shows we all agree on the "big three" 
Netradiant Q3df 
Here's the version of netradiant I'm using. Is currently been updated every month or so; lots of useful stuff.

Here you can grab the q1 gamepack.
- and an example build menu 
I never could figure out radiant.

Ya if you like Hammer, J.A.C.K is identical, except for missing displacements (not supported by Quake anyhow) and doesn't show quinstances (yet I hope). J.A.C.K is also much better than Worldcraft in that it doesn't have 4096 world size limitations, it has support for 3D viewport mouselook, 3D models in thr viewport, etc. 
Cheers, I had no idea someone had taken up the NetRadiant mantle again. Interestingly that person has chosen to be known by the nick "Le another black niger". Not sure what to make of that, but the editor seems to work ok and fixes a few of the annoying things about the old NetRadiant I was using. 
Netradiant, but I'm using a 2012 version. 
Awesome, thanks for the tips guys. So NetRadiant or JACK are winners for Q1? Does GTKRadiant work? I know most people who map for Q3A use GTKRadiant.

What are the game packs? Are they like FGD files or something? 
TrenchBroom 2 has orthographic views. You may have been using TB1. 
Cheers for the tip. I'd pretty much given up on Netradiant, but that updated version seems very usable. 
I Am So Confused 
I'm also pretty stuck trying to figure out setting up game configurations and WADs. I'm big on decompiling maps and their content so I can see how things were made. This is pretty easy on the Source engine because BSPSource is a great decompiler and custom content is often packed in the BSP, where it can be easily extracted. Also, Source games include all their content in VPKs and their Hammer already includes game configurations and FGDs, so mapping setup with base content is pretty much completely done for you. But in Quake, I can't find the default WADs and FGDs. They're not in the PAKs. And decompiling maps with WinBSPC rarely works. Even trying to study maps Thebes's are already provided in .map format doesn't work (like in Arcane Dimensions). The textures are missing in the editor and I can't find their WADs. Many of the entities just show up as purple blocks as well. Is this because they're not in the FGD or did most Quake entities not have icons? I'm just really confused, sorry for the long post. 
Uh, meant to say "that", not "Thebes". Autocorrect is nutty. 
you can find a heap of textures here:

I think that AD uses a lot of knave textures, it's probably best to extract the textures from the BSP file though.

A FGD file is provided for AD in the zip I believe. 
Quake textures are embedded in the .bsp file. Get TexMex, use it to open the .bsp, then save as .wad 
Oh, so you could pack content in Quake maps? I thought you could only pack in the Source engine. So when you ship a mod, you don't have to include all the WADs? You can just pack them in the BSP? Is there a utility to extract the content for the Quake engine?

And yeah, I have that FGD. I guess the entities just don't have icons. 
JACK can extract the textures from BSPs, I believe TexMex can aswell. For the entities to display I think you just need to point your editor to the correct directory. 
looks like i was too slow

cheers Rick :) 
For stuff other than the textures, a game folder is used. Everything can be in a pak file or just a loose directory structure. There is a certain arrangement that must be followed. 
So I can just use TexMex to create an individual WAD for each AD map? There must be a better way to do that, isn't there a limit to how many WADs you can have loaded in Hammer/JACK/Radiant/whatever?

So did the original Quake team have a proprietary map editor that they never released then? I'm just wondering how they did it if they never actually shipped an editor or textures and entity definitions with the game. I see that there's almost nothing in pak0 besides a gfx WAD, models, maps, and sound files. 
id used software called BSP (I think).

I don't know what tools they used to make wad files or whatnot.

TexMex allows you to export the textures and make one more convenient .wad file. 
So I guess the quake.wad came from people extracting and combining the textures from all the maps in Quake?

Also, starting to figure this stuff out a bit. JACK seems to be the way to go, I have set up configurations for Quake, Half-Life, and Counter-Strike and it seems to be working well. 
BSP was the name of a third-party editor.

Quake's editor was called something like QuakeED. I think they did release the source but it wasn't usable for most people because it required special hardware or OS or that most people didn't have (was it nextstep or a full opengl workstation or something?)

The version of QuakeED for quake 2 was the basis for QERadiant which was third party I think, but then became the official id software editor starting with quake 3. 
Pink Blocks 
Thats normal, Quake doesn't have icons for most point entities. 
Quake Wads 
You could mess with Texmex...or downloading a bajillion wads from quaddicted or other places...or just use:Qmaster's Collection

This includes all standard ID1, Hipnotic, Rogue, SOA, AD, Kell/Knave, and sundry other textures as well as a few of my own such as blue variants of the knave textures. It's not a complete package but it's more or less sufficient for 95-98% of all Quake maps ever made, roughly. 
Thanks Qmaster, I'll grab that pack. Too bad about the icons, kinda hard to tell what's what without them.

So there's not a reliable decompiler out there for Quake/GoldSrc maps? Did everyone just figure out how stuff was made by themselves? I'm always messing around in the VMF when I'm playing Source maps to see how stuff was done. Studying popular/official maps is kinda the best way to learn stuff. 
There's the original .map files

There is Winbspc here 
I'll grab those too, thanks. I have been using WinBSPC, it's not very accurate. 
Well, I think I'm all set up for now! I've got source files for the base maps to study, WADs for everything, an editor that works well for both Quake and GoldSrc, and no errors in any of the AD maps I've wanted to check out so far. Thank you all so much for your help, all this setup got done in one day thanks to y'all.

Now, about those entity icons... 
Almost Forgot... 
Celebrated my functioning setup with a run-through of the Minotaur and Minions (ad_test5) test map in AD on nightmare. Video for your viewing pleasure: 
Since you're coming from Source as I did once upon a time ago I'll quickly explain how Quake handles inputs and outputs between entities:

Most every entity has 1 .use function which is predefined in the code.
Targetname is the name you put on the entity to use.
Target is the name of the entity use that you set on the outputter such as a button.

Typical button: target = door1
Typical door: targetname = door1
Push the button, the door opens. The use function is usually the same and only 1 but in Quake it can depend on context. For instance if the door above has a spawnflag set of Toggle (32), then pushing the button again will close the door.

Anyhow, go map! 
Thanks for the tips Q! I've been creeping around the AD/base maps, so I've picked up a few things about logic. It's obviously a bit more primitive than Source, so I think I will be able to pick it up OK.

Also realized I forgot to grab compile tools! Some quick research indicated ericw's tyrutil's tools are the way to go, though, so I've grabbed those.

Honestly I'm blown away by these AD maps. I've never seen an HL/HL2 mod of the scale and polish that AD has. The geometry and texturing is insane, with gameplay to match! Foggy Bogbottom is a masterpiece, even sock's little test maps are gorgeous in their own right.

The textures are just insanely well crafted and implemented. Even in modern Source maps made by Valve, they don't worry so much about perfect alignment or more specific textures like those made for arches. But in AD, everything just seems perfectly applied and there are gorgeous arches and roofs everywhere. It's pretty awesome to see.

OK sorry I'm still wigging out a bit :3 
Go map! 
Ya, I Think We Are All Still Wigging Out. 
FGDs And Paths 
Trying to figure out the proper FGD and game path setup for JACK. I notice that if I change the game path from id1 to AD, several entity icons appear, including ones that I thought were part of the base quake.fgd I have from the JACK files.

Here's how the 3D view looks with only the ad_quake.fgd enabled and the game path set to AD.
Here's how it looks with the quake.fgd added with the ad_quake.fgd and with the game path set to id1.

Can JACK not read paks or something? Why would the default icons show up in the AD path and not id1? Do I need to have the quake.fgd enabled WITH the ad_quake.fgd or do I just need the AD one? What FGDs are ya'll using? 
Just The AD Fgd Will Do. 
AD & Illusionary Brushes 
How do I make illusionary brushes in a way, light doesn't go through them? Is there any other way to make brushes you can see, but doesn't collision check. Especially when doing tiny detail in some brick work, it is good to make some of those tiny deals, so player can move smoothly enough, because gameplay is more important. 
_shadow 1 
I think that's it? maybe also _shadowself 1 and _dirt 1, i'm not sure how necessary/functional they all are. (_dirt is obviousy only if you're using dirtmapping) 
@NewHouse: An Alternative Technique 
Especially when doing tiny detail in some brick work, it is good to make some of those tiny deals, so player can move smoothly enough, because gameplay is more important.

Probably you know this already, but you can of course do the opposite: instead of using func_illusionaries for the tiny details that stick out, make those parts out of normal brushes -- or better yet, func_detail* -- but then cover the whole structure in a large clip brush (i.e. a brush covered in the "clip" texture"). The same technique works if you have small recesses in a wall that you don't want the player to get caught in.

*I can't explain the exact technical reasons for this myself, but it's been said several times on this forum by experienced mappers that it's best to use func_detail for tiny detail brushes. 
To be honest, I heared them talking about func_detail but couldn't understand what they tried to say actually, because of language barrier.

So func_details don't have mesh/box collider (no collision check) ? 
No, func_detail brushes will function pretty much like regular brushes (so the player can still bump into them and won't tell the difference between func_detail and regular world brushes), except that they optimise the compile process ... or something.

The bit that's relevant to your question is using a clip brush to cover all of your detail work -- so it's doing the opposite of what you suggested:

Instead of removing collision check from e.g. the bricks that stick out, you cover the entire wall (including the bricks that stick out) with an invisible brush that the player cannot move through.

The end effect in both cases is that the player moves along the wall without getting caught; the difference is that if you use tiny func_illusionaries, the player will move "through" the tiny bricks, whereas if you use a clip brush, the player will move past the entire wall, including the tiny bricks.

I just added the part about using func_detail, because it's probably good practice, and if you are using a large clip brush instead of small func_illusionaries, then you can use func_detail for all your small detail brushes. 
Clip > illusionary for detail. Obviously not ALWAYS true, but if there's any risk of a player's camera getting inside a func_illusionary it's not worth taking. It just looks bad, frankly.

As far as I know func_detail is mostly a way of optimising the vis part of building your map. It basically excludes those brushes from a lot of those calculations, which is great since vis tests visibility really thoroughly and things like little bricks sticking out will be included in that test normally, which is both useless and time-consuming.
Vis is often the longest part of compiling a map, so optimising it is a good idea. 
I'm sorry, I'm still confused that did I get the answer for my question.. so what I asked was how to make brushes that player can see, but also can go through. I really don't care whether it is possible to see inside brush, because you can't do anything to remove that side effect.

Maybe it is better if I show what I'm doing on my map, and I'm sure millions of people will say to me "Don't do that, that is the wrong way", and that might be 100% true. But there is no time for my to learn new tricks at the moment, if it seems to slow down my progress.

These couple small parts of wall are at the moment just func_illusionary, because I don't want player to struggle with that doorway.. sure it looks a bit more detailed but basically is just the part of basic hallway after breaking the middle: 
Second Question 
In general, how do you make func_illusionaries solid, so they block light and cast shadows and so on ? 
how to make brushes that player can see, but also can go through.
make them a func_illusionary entity

how do you make func_illusionaries solid, so they block light and cast shadows and so on
add "_shadow" "1" to the func_illusionary

(fyi Pritchard, only one of "_selfshadow" or "_shadow" is meant to be used at a time. I'm not sure what happens if both are set, probably _selfshadow is ignored) 
Ericw, that's interesting to learn! Would you mind elaborating on what the functional differences are between the two flags? Also, since I'm still not sure, does _dirt need to be set if it's enabled in worldspawn? Thanks!

Newhouse, yeah, func illusionary is fine for that. Or, since you're using AD, func_breakable_wall works too. It's specifically designed to appear as part of the rubble when a func_breakable is destroyed. Set its targetname to the same value as target on the breakable, and then you can set properties such as whether it has collision or not. It also has things that support fading out etc. but for your use it's basically the same as having a func_illusionary that spawns when you break something. 
Here's an example of a func_wall (the floating cube with a hole through it thing) with "_selfshadow" "1":

If it was just a plain func_wall with no extra keys, the left wall would not cast a shadow on the bottom wall. If "_shadow" "1" were set, you'd also get a shadow cast on the world. 
re: dirt, I think if "_dirt" "1" is set in worldspawn, you don't need to set it on every func.

However, dirt interacts with the use of _shadow/_shadowself on funcs in the same way shadows cast by lights do.
i.e. "_shadow" "1" -> the func will "cast" dirt on to the surrounding world
"_shadowself" "1" -> the func will "cast" dirt on itself, but not on the world.

Btw screwed up in my last post.. the key is called "_shadowself", not "_selfshadow" 
Does _shadow have support for multiple light sources? 
Nevermind....It Does Pull From Multiple Sources...most Of The Time 
Shadow+Shadowself...did some tests:

_shadow 1 - self shadowing done and func_ casts shadows on the world.

_shadowself 1 - self shadowing and no shadows on the world.

both - same as _shadow 1.

Conclusion: _shadow 1 causes brushes in func_ to be treated as any old normal world brush. _shadowself 1 is only useful for cases where you don't want an object to cast shadows but still want it to shadow the brushes within the func_. 
Would someone explain me 'why func_illusionary.. if I put _shadow 1.. Light still goes through it and lights for example one room that should be dark? Because I can't make this working like you do, I have to make actually normal brushes there.. kill them when func_breakable wall is broken and then set active func_illusionary which where first "start off".

If someone knows why simple just using _shadow 1 doesn't make it solid + block light coming through it? 
Which light tool are you using? Only the newest versions of some light tools support _shadow. I'd grab a copy of if you aren't sure. 
I thought I already crabbed that one.. let me see.. yep. I'm using tyrutils-ericw-v0.15.7-win64. 
I mean I grabbed* 
How bad is hitting the vert limit on bsp? I added the bsp2 flag to my compiler like the error said, but should I be concerned about it at all? Also, I'm assuming that all modern engines support bsp2, I mean i'm only about 3/4 done with this map so I can't exactly just trim it down yet. 
Stupid Elevators. 
I want that player goes to "wait elevator zone" and whether it is up.. it goes down where player is.. but if it is down already - don't do anything ... just let the player go inside elevator.. wait about 1 second, after it goes up. And same other way around.

Pictures would help a lot more to visualize this. 
you could probably use logic gates to make that happen neohouse 
Going Down 
I take it this is for the AD jam?

You could use entity states for multiple triggers. I don't know if this is over thinking it but what comes to mind is something like:

If elevator is up, and the player is down then a trigger by the elevator entrance will trigger a func_door set with toggle. This also turns off the trigger so it will not go back up without the player going inside the elevator.

A trigger located where the elevator space in the down position would then activate the door toggle. A similar trigger would be in the elevator space when in the up position.

Finally, duplicate the first section but on the upper floor.

With this, you can set separate wait values for triggers to get the elevator to act how you want.

I just pulled this out of my bum and your mileage will probably vary. :O 
You could also just use multiple func_buttons like how other elevators work.

But if you don't want buttons then try it out! 
As long as entity_state whatever works in a way, it set the same state like "on" or "off" multiple times and not starts switching it between until I really want it to be changed. 
_shadow 1 on func illusionary should work with my light tool. Try starting with a simple case of a room with a pillar in the middle made of func_illusionary.

The light tool doesn't understand the start off spawnflag, so things that cast shadows always cast shadows. 
the thing is, if these brushes were "normal" no "func_anything", light didn't come through it. But using func_illusionary.. even though I tried everything, using these _shadow 1 etc. I couldn't make it block lights, and tbh I didn't use "start off" yet so problem is not there. Somewhere is problem I can't figure out it by myself, because there is other things like I have to do.. like finishing up my map before deadline.

Also another thing about these clip brushes.. There is one hallway and monsters could easier walk through it, then I added there grates on floor, and covered it with clip brushes like I did in many other part of my map and in those areas those worked just fine.. but for some reasons it didn't worked on this specific hallway and enemies couldn't anymore go through it.. there is clip brush precisely placed on same high as floor is and it covers all these func_detail iron bars on floor, why they can't go through it? Is this some kind of bug or something? 
A Hunch 
Newhouse, try turning bounce lighting off and see if the func_illusionary with skip textures and shadow tag works then. 
Monsters Can't Walk On Clip Brushes. 
Wait, the func_illusionary is textured with "skip"?
Updating your utils to v0.15.8 will fix that then!

Due to some things I changed in light (new raytracer), I had to handle the case of shadow-casting skip-textured funcs in a special way. The only limitation is, all faces of the func must be textured as "skip" for it to work. 
Yeah, to fix the walking issue you need to use a func_wall with a very small alpha key value.

ericw, what are the chances of that changing in the future? It'd be nice to have some of the "one sided" brushes in my map cast shadows. It's not a big deal if it can't happen, though. 
Pritchard, I think that case will already work as you expect.. (something like hanging vines with texture on one side only?) The normal textured face will block light. (the skip faces won't, but the back side of the normal-textured face will, so the result will be fine.)

(The only case I'm aware of that is broken would be very unusual: say you had a bridge using regular textures, with spikes extending out of it that were textured with skip, and the whole thing was a single func_wall with _shadow 1. The result would be the main bridge casts a shadow but the skip-textured spikes don't). 
I'll check my entity setup when I get the chance, I may have forgotten to set _shadow 1 on the relevant bits... 
Thanks ericw, I will update my tools*

czg "Monsters Can't Walk On Clip Brushes."

Is that so? So it means I need to use invisible brushes or func_wall with alpha always when thinking of monsters. Maybe I skipped that part where ever it was written down. 
Use noskip textures on a func_wall instead 
sorry, I meant skip textures 
Because not using skip textures.. possible makes some surfaces disappear when looking from different angles? 
Weird Bug? 
I placed armor and health on elevator (func_train) which slowly goes from up to down.. when it reaches its destination bottom, I hear stopping sound and then items falls through floor..

Should I use skip there as well? I already tried clip brushes. 
Right now in my map I'm trying to create a little plant in a pot, like one of those shitty plastic ones you see in foyers or something like that. Does anyone have any advice on the best way to go about it? I'd be happy to just have a texture that's feasible to cut a shape out of with brushes, I've got some good ideas as to how to use something like that, but something better would be nice as well.

It's an AD map so although I haven't looked into it I think I can load arbitrary models, so that's another avenue.

What would be really juicy is a guide on how to get transparent textues working in Q1, if that's even possible (I doubt it!). I've got a .wad with a plant that I could use if this was made possible somehow, but it's on that ugly pink background and the details are far too fine for me to simply chop it out, even at the smallest possible grid size. 
Several AD maps use fence textures (vines in ad_swampy, broken windows in ad_necrokeep) so you could try that - add a "{" to the beginning of the texture name so it's something like "{plant", this will make palette index 255 transparent.

It's not a vanilla quake feature but engine support is good (QS, MarkV, FTE, latest DP) 
Skip = the compiler removes the textures from the visual plane, so there are invisible but solid surfaces the monsters can walk over like they was a smooth floor. It's preferable to make them func_wall, because then you can cover the whole gap. They can work as world geometry as well - however, then they can't touch adjacent geometry as that would cause their faces to become invisible as well.

Skip works in vanilla Quake which makes it the way to go, whereas alpha is only supported by a handful of ports. 
An apparent exception to the "can't touch adjacent geometry" rule seems to be if the brushes that are skipped are func_illusionary brushes. Obviously not applicable for creating invisible solids, but still an interesting exception. I'm using it to make a "catwalk" for my map:

Also, is the "monsters can't walk on clip brushes" statement actually true? I ask because this guy seems to be doing just fine, granted this is in a mod, not the default game. 
monsters use pointcontents in order to avoid walking off cliffs. this means that they'll refuse to walk over gaps,
the exception is if they're already off the side of a cliff, in which case they're 'allowed' to just walk off it entirely, thus there's no issue if they spawn on it, but they won't step back onto the clip brush if they did find solid ground.
obviously you can trick the movetogoal function by adding in FL_PARTIALGROUND before each call to it, but you'd probably need extra triggers for that... 
I have a spot where monsters not walking on clip brushes is less than good. I've been avoiding anything not part of Quake originally, but would this "alpha" thing work on a moving entity like a door?

If so, is it done in the engine or by the compiler? 
a func_wall with only skip textures on it will be totally invisible (and not do nasty things to pvs+csg+etc), and yet still support monsters walking over it just fine.

however, your shots will also hit it instead of passing straight through, which is how come monsters will be willing to walk over it.
so pick your poison. 
The walkway is made of four bars. At first they are not extended. Later they move to the position here (lower right).

Sorry for the poor angle, but the screenshot is one I uploaded a while back.

Monsters do not move on to the walkway because of the gaps. I've used monsters that have ranged attacks, but it would be better if they would use the walkway once it extends. A func_wall or skip textured brush won't work because of the need to move. 
Would making a second overlapping func_door that's just a skip-textured box work? 
Skip textures work on doors? That was what I was asking. I didn't know, never use them.

Special compiler needed? I use txqbsp_xt

I was thinking to try the tyrutils as long as marksurfaces don't go up, but I would have to relight a lot of the map because there are parts that look a lot different from MH/BJ light. I think it's the lack of "soft distance". 
There is already a clip brush inside the bars to smooth out the "bumpiness" to the player, changing that to a separate door would be no problem. 
I'm pretty sure skip on doors will work fine with txqbsp-xt or tyrutils (I tested my version, probably the original works too). As spike said it'll block gunshots but otherwise it should be ideal. 
Does it really need to be func_wall only, when using skip textures? Just wondering because func_train is used in many places, and if ever decide make a floor about irons bars then there will be problems if monsters can't move over it. 
In general, for anything non moving I would use a func_wall. For something that moves along one axis only, func_door. If a complex path is needed, multiple directions, continuous loop, etc., that is what func_train is for. I don't actually use func_plat any more, too limited. 
By the way.. because I'm still discovering new keys and things... does func_door has key "angles" like in buttons? 
Yes, but like buttons, only in the horizontal plane, and from what I've seen it can get confusing if you use non-orthogonal directions.

Doors make great lifts and extending walk ways, you just have to learn how to control them by setting the "lip" value. 
So it is better than func_plat in many cases?

I tried using now skip, I think I asked about whether it makes same effect when using invisible textures.. and it makes the same weird effect, it kind of don't want to draw some faces: 
From Quake Wiki...

"Skip is a nonstandard special texture, used by modern QBSP compilers, but does not have any function in the stock Quake compilers as released by ID Software. Skip is a texture much like clip in that it is invisible, but skip's use is to remove an entire face from ever rendering, and a brush does not have to be fully textured in skip. The removed face remains solid, and will block player and monster movement, as well as block weapon fire. In general, this is of little use on solid geometery, as Quake performs backside culling, but can be used on brush entities or "hacks" like windows to hide unwanted faces. A "*waterskip" texture exists as well, for use with liquid brushes."

So you use it only on those faces of a brush that you want to remove, not on a whole brush. 
I don't want to remove anything, I only want to let monsters move surfaces. 
Thanks for who mentioned about func_wall + alpha.. it worked! 
Skip Texture 
Looking at your screenshot I think you have a grid, and that you want monsters to be able to cross the grid?

If so, then you cannot cover the whole grid with one skip brush. You need to fill each of the spaces in the grid with a brush of exactly the same size as the gap, and with the same texture as the grid, then retexture just the top and bottom faces of that new brush with the skip texture.

After compiling, the faces with the skip texture will be solid but invisible, meaning that you can see what is below the grid, and all the other faces of that brush will remain, thereby making the grid look complete. Monsters will then be able to cross the grid.

I used that technique in FMB-BDG2 where I had a grid with some holes big enough for the player to fall through if he was not careful, and skip textures everywhere else so that the monster could chase the player across the grid and maybe panic the player into falling through one of the bigger holes (those bigger holes did not have skip textures in them). 
The problem in the screenshot is that the skip brush is world geometry. This is what I explained above. The skip brush needs to be a brush entity, ideally func_wall (NOT func_illusionary). Alpha brush is a bad choice, because when playing the level with a port that doesn't support alpha, that brush will be fully visible. 
When world brushes touch, regardless of texture, the touching faces are removed. If top and bottom face are skip-invisible, then you can see through the sides where the brushes touch. So in order for this to work, there must be no touching (similar to the "DP" issue), for example if the skip brush is shaped like an upside down pyramid or at least has slanted sides to make sure only the floor surface matches up with the adjacent floor. However, this is problematic as well, since it may lead to the parts below or behind the skip brush to be visblocked and therefore create a visual anomaly, too. 
Someone Should Write Down Some Tutorials 
"Alpha brush is a bad choice, because when playing the level with a port that doesn't support alpha, that brush will be fully visible."

Didn't some just said Skip is not supported as well in some ports.. or am I blind. It seems there is couple ways to solve this problem. That I don't know what is the right way to do it anymore.

You can recommend using specific engines for your maps.. if it comes to that mentality "it should be working on every possible quake engine" you're just making your life unnecessary hard?

I just tried func_wall + alpha and it gave the best result when using Quakespasm. So if that is the wrong way to do it, then shall be it - if it works on this specific engine.. 
Do AD's fence textures not work in darkplaces? Or have I borked something somewhere? That screenshot is 100% less pink in QS.

Actually, should I care about DP at all? I only installed it tonight to see how my map would look (basically the same save for the broken plants) and experience the horror that is excessive particles and blood decals. Does anyone care if my map's broken in it? 
Skip Texture 
Sorry about that; my memory is shot!

Negke is right. Ignore my comment about exact size and retexturing, that was the actual problem I had, not the solution. The solution was a standard brush 1 unit away from grid brushes (still needing one skip brush for each gap in the grid)

I think this shows what I am meaning:-

You can see the skip brushes in place, and the larger holes that the player could fall through, but monsters would not.

This screenshot is from the original map that was compiled and worked as intended. 
Actually, should I care about DP at all?

Like this? :

Is the offsetting by 1 pixel only way to make it not hide faces from those iron bars? 
Let me get this straight. Skip is a compiler thing, so if the faces are removed does the engine port used to play the map make any difference?

Alpha does require engine support, if not supported by the engine port used to play the map the model will appear as normal and not transparent? 
Yes, that looks right. And yes, the 1 unit gap stops the grid's faces from being removed whilst allowing monsters to cross the grid.

In my map, Ogres, Death Knights and Shamblers could chase the player across the grid. 
should I care about DP at all?

It depends whether you intend to allow players to play your map without forcing them to put their engine of choice away or restrict it to some kind of elitist club. Your call but IMHO mappers shouldn't make their work dependent of one engine. 
Way To Complicate Things 
You turn it into a func_wall so you don't need to have 1-unit gaps, because brush *entities* and world geometry don't affect each other in this regard. Yes, it's also possible to have skip-textured world brushes which then must not touch other brushes, but it's not recommended in most situations. There'll be lighting issues, too.
And you only need a single big func_wall that covers the whole space between all the bars in that area - since it's invisible to the player, there's no visible z-fighting.

Rick: Correct.
Mugwump: Correct. 
Dp got fence texture support a few weeks ago, it's only on the "development auto builds" (haven't tried myself but should work): 
Skip Works In All Engines 
Including dosquake to my knowledge 
"And you only need a single big func_wall that covers the whole space between all the bars in that area - since it's invisible to the player, there's no visible z-fighting. "

but still this happened? Did I do it poorly?

Though I don't remember was it func_wall or not.. have to see again.. 
Yeah, it seems to work. Thanks negke. 
So now it is come to this point I need to ask again about these keys (AD specific): _shadow, _shadowself, _dirt.

Can some one of those make this brush work as func_illusionary.. like it doesn't block lights? 
I had no idea that was what you could use func-wall for. If I ever try to map again I will have to find a use for my new-found knowledge :) 
func_wall + alpha works in Darkplaces, Fitzquake, Qrack, and Quakespasm (and probably more). That's pretty broad support.

The only thing it doesn't do is work online with protocol 15. 
Strangers In The Night 
After working some months on a convertion of the Doom2 Startrek Enterprise to Quake1 I discovered a file on my disk from 1997.
It's called "" and contents a rather good impression of a Quake1 map of the Enterprise.

First I was surprised, because someone already did what I was trying in a much earlier moment.

I tried to contact the author "Andrew J. Wyllie" but my email bounced back which isn't that strange after 19 years.

I wondered if someone has heard of the name, because it's a rather good convertion. 
Keys/Sigils In Multiplayer? 
This is a repeat of a post I made a long time ago on I'm revisiting it now and someone suggested this forum to get ideas.

Basically, I'm trying to replicate the gimmick from the quake live map 'Elder' (players pick up a gold key to access part of the map), but in quakeworld.

Is it possible to do this using item_key1 / item_key2 / item_sigil ?

Has someone done this before in e.g. a duel/2v2/4v4 map? Let me know what you can! 
In your map editor, for the gold key ...

1) what flags do you have set
2) what flags are unset

And same for the door. 
Sorry, I left out the most important part of my post!
I basically know how to set up the door to open for a key etc. The problem is my keys/sigil don't seem to spawn at all in deathmatch..?

No flags set on them right now. 
Grenade Key 
Keys are probably removed by the engine for DM. Didn't see anything in the QC.

You could do like I always wanted to do, and turn the grenade launcher into a key. Just make a wall with a hole, put a shootable func_button deep down inside. Only way to trigger it? Drop a grenade in there. Label it with a texture that features a screenshot of a grenade launcher or a grenade, so players get the drift (or a message works too, I guess).

Other than that, there is a Quake 1 arena mod that I think is actively developed. I think they might code DM keys in for you. 
Rocket launcher key? Long shaft (think Star Wars). Shoot down it, and blast radius hits shootable triggers on the side(s) of the terminal chamber. 
I remember that map from way back when. I just grabbed it to play for old times sake. 
Ah, too bad. Thanks for confirming it anyway! 
Haha. Yeah, too bad.
Except you can do it by removing the 2048 from both the key and the door.
/Newbies ... 
Here's a screenshot of EZQuake of someone holding the gold key and looking at the gold key door.

Of this thing that "can't be done".

ezQuake gold key + gold key door deathmatch on 
Thanks, Baker. I can get it working, too. But if he's not setting any flags...

By the way, the html for this thread is now 12.6 MB. Isn't that kind of absurd? 
I did ask him specifically what flags "he was using" and what flags "he wasn't using", hehe.

He said no flags, which is pretty bloody unlikely so who knows what's he doing .. even he doesn't know, that's for sure.

thread is now 12.6 MB -- Isn't that kind of absurd?

That's 12.6 MB of pure knowledge, my friend.

Use it wisely. Prosper. 
If all of this "pure knowledge" would be gathered in other format for example.. actual tutorials/techniques web page + clear images and screenshots of what everything actually does.

Simple ReadMe included in "somewhere" in game folders doesn't offer much information what all keys and features actually do and most of the mapper's time is spend on trying out things and failing. (in my case 90% of the time), because I'm bad at understanding notepads alone. That's reason why I constantly keep "making sure" I'm doing things in a right way and keep asking about scripting in here.. because there is no other forums as active as this.

I can only assume size will keep growing, and here is the one of the reasons why that keeps happening. 
Why do I suspect you are using TrenchBroom?

Because in older days, almost everyone used WorldCraft and WorldCraft had elite ++++ documentation. You could go from newbie to near-elite in a day, I kid you not.


When I see someone new using TrenchBroom, I keeping seeing newbies trying to carve trees and struggle with newbie 101 stuff like "can't make a teleporter" other non-sense that no WorldCraft user ever struggled with in the entire history of mapping.

/I'm just saying ... 
I think, to be honest, it's just because this stuff really isn't google friendly. Or just... friendly, at all. I've never seen that WorldCraft page before, and it's not for lack of trying. this site got me through a lot of my early struggles with the entity system, but to be honest I've forgotten how I found it myself.

Another issue is that TB's docs aren't really noob friendly. I mean, they're great if you're a noob for TB, but not for quake. Anything you could possibly want to know about mangling a once-beautiful brush into a mess of non-integer vertex points and warped textures is contained within the bounds of the TB docs, but the only consideration given to the entity properties window is a guide to the UI and how to get around it.

Personally I don't think it should be the responsibility of the editor to provide documentation for this sort of thing. Especially not in TB's case, where the list of games it supports is quite wide and its capability to load custom entity definitions means that it can never cover every possible question.

There's no real solution here really; unless we start editing the top of the topic to include links to a F.A.Q. or tutorials like the one you linked, everyone is basically stuck in an endless cycle of answering the same old questions again and again... 
I Agree 
With Pritchard on this.

Stuff like making a teleport is pretty univseral across all Quake editors. I think it's more like completely new mappers (Who never mapped before) are attracted to TB and because they are completely new they do not any of the basics whatsoever.

I learned a great deal of the basics from the bsp editor tutorials. Almost all of those tutorials are not specific to any editor and I don't think that should be TB's job at all.

But that link you posted Baker is very useful and like Pritchard I never came across that page! 
I see you got that one too.

What happened to me is I'm a hardcore singleplayer, and the level has only four vormits and a dancing data.
In all respeckt to the author andrew wyllis I can't help to see it as a deathmatch range.
Also the light is really bleached.

So I took up the stormannsgally idea to remap the level, inhibbit it with gallons of ferengi and cardassians, relight it and even make it bigger.

Sofar I haven't much luck, but after converting the enterprise from a doom2 level I found this one which threw me back in my chair.

As Spock said: what in heavens name is emotion? 
im about to show my skill level, but for the life of me can not figure out what im doing wrong.

Im getting "no spawn function" for func_details? im using "tyrutils-ericw-v0.15.8-win64" to compile and running my map, which uses Arcane Dimensions, with my AD shortcut through QuakeSpasm.

my understanding is that the error would mean im not using the right progs.dat/mod?

I reinstalled AD/redid the most recent patch and still nothing?

super confused, and extremely burntout on it. thanks in advance. let me know what info or logs i should share to help decipher this, as im still on the novice end of things.

it worked last compile and to the best of my knowledge not much has changed aside from new entities/trigger/targetnames. 
aaaaaand i solved it.

ive been having an issue with trenchbroom not saving new compile settings upon exiting. my tools had been set to a previous setup.

am i alone with that issue? 
Keys/Sigils + DM 
Keys and sigils work in deathmatch. However, they do not respawn, so they can only be picked up and used once - and will be lost if the player dies before opening the door. Depending on your intentions, it may be safer to use buttons (possibly dressed up to look like a key or sigil). 
Keys fire their triggers when picked up, so you could make the key being picked up automatically open some invisible doors (clip) over the real doors. The real doors would just be regular doors, and that way you could make it so that once the key is collected it's as if everyone had it.

Alternatively, this seems to work from my brief testing when used on keys. That's a pretty direct way of solving the "don't respawn" issue. 
Would the sp respawn hack work on them in DM? 
Yes, I think so. 
Well, I tested in QS in DM mode so i'd think so. At least for netquake :/ 
Troubling Lift 
A simple lift shaft, 96x96 units and 320 units high.

When I place a func_train in it the plateau seems to get stuck
at the last 64 units and returns.
Replaced it with a func_plat but it keeps stuck.
There's nothing to block it so I wonder what it causes.

I know the bouncing box is always square, no matter the player's direction.
The 96x96 units seems enough space for the player's 64x64 intend. 
Things like "can't make a teleporter" doesn't always mean that he actually don't know what functionalities use or keys, in my case it meant that if I place teleport destination poorly it teleports the player back to same teleport I just run into and not the destination. And most of the features I'm asking about is mod specific features I haven't used before and has only tiny print in some ReadMe files.

I haven't never seen that site you just linked, but it looks like 10 times more informative that what I have tried to use during these 3 years of mapping and practicing. 
Submit an issue plz. 
Ill see if i can reproduce it and ill write one up regardless tomorrow afternoon. 
So there is a point at which the larger part of the level becomes accessible. When the player reaches this point, there will be a choice of two paths to take.

One path may be difficult/annoying/frustrating if taken first, but probably doable. Block that path until the other is followed or let the player figure it out?

I do have one model left which could be a blocking door which is triggered eventually by taking the second path.

Maybe the door could be part of the difficulty setting? 

I rather enjoy figuring out things on my own, but for the sake of keeping it simple the difficulty block sounds like a good idea as well.


Don't feel too bad about grey box levels getting nowhere. I encounter the same issues and I assume a lot of other mappers do as well. I have gone through about 3 or 4 maps where I had a full level planned out but couldn't "grasp" the scope. I find keeping a map within scope (Don't go too far with so many ideas at once) and also laying down some detail lets you visualize your final product.

I tend to lightly texture as I go and that seems to help my motivation for continuing a map. Just now, I started to dislike my current project, but I found the cause was an ambitious idea that increased my initial scope too far. Removing it completely allowed me to plan out a far more simple but realistic idea.

Try decreasing the scope of your map, remove excessive or overly ambitious ideas that do not conform well to the rest of your plan. 
I managed to add a completely new lift and now the player will be able to access the area that previously required unlocking the larger part of the level and following the correct side path.

It added over 700 marksurfaces which exceed the limit, but I was able to get the total down to 32300 after fooling with it all day.

The bad part is that, by doing a grenade jump, the player can now reach the larger area without doing the "mini quest" to unlock it.

I'll have to decide whether to leave that possibility in or make it irrelevant. If I do make it irrelevant, the player would only find out if they make the jump, only to discover they have gained little.

Even with all these changes, it would still be possible for the player to miss the whole point of exploring that area. 
Func_train's Path Corners + Slerp? 
Is there way to create slow down for the moving brushes? 
Not in standard Quake. There is in Quoth, for instance. 
I Choose You Quoth! 
There is in Quoth, for instance.
Does AD have a similar feature? 
AD makes use of a "speed" property as well. 
Cool, Thanks 
Quaddicted / Other Resources Down For Any One Else? 
So i've been making doom Wads and UT2k4 levels ever since i could get my brain around level design.

They're all pet projects, and recently i decided to step into quake editing. So i've been at it for a few months, switched to trenchbroom, fiddled with quoth a bit but i keep going back to old fashioned quake assets.

I was thinking now would be a great time to go back and retexture/polish my old quake levels that i converted from my Doom2 deathmatch servers i used to run.

Found out today most of the WADs for textures are lost to the Ether, and Qaddicted/ are down? not certain? I haven't been able to get on them all day it seems.

where else do you get assets in this community? 
I'm pretty sure the sites do go down from time to time, they also tend to come back again afterwards.

It is a bit of a single point of failure, sadly. Thankfully the web archive as linked above has some of it mirrored, if not all (I haven't checked).

My strategy with the .wad collection on Quaddicted is to wget that entire directory so that I have a local copy. It makes it easier to browse, and prevents me from having to constantly use the server whenever I want to find new texture sets. 
How much Mb is whole WAD collection? 
Yeah, I've been having an error 503 since last night. The site must be under maintenance.

My strategy with the .wad collection on Quaddicted is to wget that entire directory so that I have a local copy.
I DL'ed everything too. The whole shebang weighs about 300Mb, a speck on a modern HDD. 
Thanks for the assistance, I will be sure to do that asap. So when these sites are down there's no secondary... scary stuff. This was the only community I found that still embraces quake1 so readily. 
No secondary? As Baker said there's always the Quaddicted backup at You'll also find donwloadable stuff at Quaketastic. As for the Quake community, there are a number of other sites, notably and InsideQC (the latter is more a home to engine coders, many of whom also dwell here). 
My copy of the wad collection is just a smidge over 400mb, actually.

In other news, the site seems to be back again. We can all rejoice! 
I thought I had downloaded everything, I guess I missed some. I'll have to remedy that, thanks for pointing it out. 
Theres no way in hell to get a green fullbright right? not without engine changes i assume 
a mod with a new palette would do it. (any color in the last two rows is fullbright, so you could replace some of those with green.) It would affect all textures/models though, so you might need to live with green enforcer lasers or something. 
or, use TGA replacement textures. That's probably simpler but you are limited to engines that can load them. 
Guys, I'm having trouble with my little Sin City experiment. Here's a picture of the problem:
Notice the brownish lines? They shouldn't be here at all. All we should see are uninterrupted strips of white with only the black outline. What am I doing wrong? Here's an archive containing the .map, its associated .log and my custom texture wad:

BTW, the log has two warnings about entities in empty space but I have NOTHING outside of that big cube and no apparent leak. 
Perhaps the the custom texture is tiling? I didn't check the 2nd link just the picture. 
Well of course it is tiling, those columns are 1024 units tall! But my textures only contain black and white, no color at all and not even greys, so we shouldn't see these brown lines.

I was thinking it may be a problem with my textures themselves, hence the inclusion of my wad. I'm a total n00b in the matter of making textures, so maybe I did something I shouldn't have, or on the contrary didn't do something I should have...

I don't know if it's worth mentioning but I used ad_quake.fgd in TB2. I've just been told I should use the .def instead. 

I believe i saw sock mentioned an improved fgd for AD 1.5 on twitter. Dont quote me on that. 
The SC_plainsurfw3f texture has that brown color in the bottom row of pixels, should be easy to fix up in Wally or whatever your preferred texture tool is 
That's weird. I used PhotoShop to create a 64*64 plain white texture and only drew the black outline, nothing else. How could that color possibly have ended up there?!

@mukor Thanks but according to the discussion I've just had on the TrenchBroom thread, .fgds are for J.A.C.K. 
I took it more as the fgd currently with AD is setup better for jackhammer and that the new one will work for both. 
Correcting Myself 
Sock didnt directly mention the fgd being improved but replied to someone about their problem with a specific aspect of the fgd being fixed in 1.5 in the AD thread post #949.

I have faith the fgd was imporved overall and not just that one area. Maybe sock will chime in on that... 
The fix mentioned in that post is about relays, it has nothing to do with my issue. 
Hence The Need For Me Correcting Myself 
Okay, I have no idea about your skid marks in your whites then. ;)

I use the fgd for AD and I use TB2. I find all of the information I am looking for present so perhaps try both and see which one suits your fancy! 
skid marks in your whites
I think it might have something to do with the method I used. I had converted full color textures by using PhotoShop's greyscale mode, thus discarding the RGB channels, so when I made my set of white textures, PS was still in greyscale mode. Then I imported all these in TexMex and I suppose it's the program's texture conversion that screwed them up, because these colored parts show up in my wad but not in the individual textures. I'm currently remaking the wad from scratch. I went back to my individual textures that I had stored in a folder, converted all of them from greyscale .tga back to RGB .bmp and I'll use Wally instead of TexMex. I hope this time it works correctly. 
For all your correct and well pointed punctuation you really are a first class retard 
TexMex is for wad management, not texture editing. You need to be sending it 8 bit textures with the correct 256 color palette. If you don't, it will make a best guess at conversion and if it turns out wrong, guess who's fault that is?

Does Photoshop even have a way to do 256 color editing confined to a specific palette? 
How did you import them into TexMex without saving them to disk? (Like why would you have to re-make them)

If your life easier you convert to the Quake palette (preferably without fullbrights) in the image editor, then CTRL-C and copy the image ... and then ALT-TAB to TexMex and press CTRL-SHIFT-V to paste the image into the wad. 
You need to be sending it 8 bit textures with the correct 256 color palette.
That's good to know. PhotoShop does work with a palette. I'll have to check if it accepts the .lmp format, probably yes.

How did you import them into TexMex without saving them to disk?
I didn't say I didn't save them! CTRL-C + CTRL-SHIFT-V is exactly what I did, I just seem to have skipped the palette conversion part...

I've noticed something else: the mipmaps generated from the full-size image, either in TexMex or Wally, include greys in them while the original textures only have 2 colors: black and white. In-game, this results in a change of tone in the distance, visible in the screenshot I posted earlier. Is there a way to prevent the mipmap generator from blending black and white into greys? If not, can I edit the mipmaps in PS or replace the generated ones with my own? 
I've mostly used bitmap for Quake when actually saving files for future use, but always as 8 bit with palette. This works perfectly for me. Seems like I read somewhere the format actually used by ID for Quake was pcx.

I never needed to mess with the mipmaps, but I seem to remember something called MipDip? Maybe look at Quaddicted or Quaketastic. 
Is the best for texture editing imo. It lets you do cool noise effects and remip too. 
I never needed to mess with the mipmaps
I probably wouldn't need to with regular, colored textures (or even greyscaled like map jam 8), but I'm doing something really special with only pure black and pure white. Greys would mess that up. I'll look into MipDip, thanks. 
I have Wally but haven't used it for many years. I have no idea why. It looks like it can do some useful things that my ancient copy of PSP 4 can't. I don't see any way to directly edit the sub mips though. 
hi i want to know how to make maps with trenchbroom there is no tutorial on how to compile maps. how do i compile maps?

i watched this video but there are no tutorials how to actually compile maps 
my map compiler says this:

output says this:
#### Exporting map file '/Users/Leo/Desktop/'

and then i get a .map file on my deskotop
but i need it to be .bsp to be able to play it. 
what now? 
ive downloeaded 4 different mapeditors for quake and non of them are very user friendly and the resources on the interent are limited on this subject. 
Trenchbroom comes with documentation on how to compile.

View this thread for the most recent compiling tools.

These are the files youll need to add to the compile screen on Trenchbroom, below:

Above is the same screen used in the Help section thats included with Trenchbroom.

Please, read all the included documentation with these files and Trenchbroom. 
If you have any understanding of folders, files, file extensions, and how to use Windows Explorer, then just use a batch file. Way easier in my opinion than all that gobbledygook in the wiki. 
im a mac user and i use trenchbroom 
I'm sure there's Mac equivalents. It's basic computer stuff. The compiler programs are all command line types. You just type in the instruction and hit enter.

A batch file is just plain text, a kind of script, that runs the commands in sequence automatically. On Windows, it's easier if the map file and all the compiler programs are in the same folder. Also, the full path to the texture wad needs to be in the map file so bsp.exe can include the textures in the final .bsp file.

Sorry I don't know enough about Macs to help more. Maybe on a Mac it's easier to just get the editor to do everything. 
I'm sure there's Mac equivalents.


No batch files. No ability to do command line parameters. No true ability to create a shortcut to an application and what you can do in no ways is a Windows equivalent.

On a tech site, some nerdy guy with Cheetos fingers would say "bash script" is like "batch files" ... except yeah, for a casual user those are nothing alike.

(Average Joe can make/edit/run a batch file because it was designed for the average guy to be able to do it. Average Joe needs 1 yr of education to make "bash script" because he is not intended knowledge-level a bash script has in mind.) 
Really? I had no idea. The only time I ever used an Apple was in my college computer lab back in the 80s 
80s Apples Were Awesome! 
Beagle Bros 4 Ever!!! 
No batch files. No ability to do command line parameters. No true ability to create a shortcut to an application
Yet another slew of good reasons not to use Macs...

So, I've searched Quaddicted, Quaketastic and Google for MipDip, but no luck so far. Does anyone have a copy of it by any chance? 
But did you try Quake Terminus? :O 
Thanks, Bloughsburgh. As a matter of fact, no, I didn't. I remember visiting this site once for other purposes but it didn't occur to me this time. Bookmarked. 
While I'd normally ignore a comment as derisive as yours (there is no need to bring down Frito-Lay's fine products), I am concerned about the misinformation you are spreading.

First of all, you claim there is "No ability to do command line parameters," yet in the same post you mention bash scripts. Bash is an interactive shell, it's how users interact with software, and it certainly provides users the means of supplying arguments. Now, where Mac falls on its face is with "apps" that require a special command in order to provide arguments to the program, but that's not an issue with compile tools because they're command-line utilities.

Second, writing shell scripts is no more difficult than writing batch files. Granted, the bourne shell and the bourne-again shell after it contain a dizzying number of features, but some things are actually easier to do in sh/bash than in a batch file. For example, "for loops" in cmd.exe are fairly useless if delayed variable expansion is not enabled, and it's not enabled by default; that has to be set before-hand as an extra step. But I'm getting ahead of myself; in its simplest form a shell script executes commands in sequence, just like a batch file. Both provide more features than just that, but their presence does not make writing scripts in either more difficult. The point is, you don't need to know all of bash's features just to write a script. The only way a shell script is more difficult is that its necessary to change permissions on the file to be marked as executable (chmod +x <script>).

Third, your description of "Average Joe" is oddly specific. "Average Joe" can use the command line, and "Average Joe" can write batch files, but when we start talking about bash scripts, now we're reaching outside Joe's capabilities. I'm pretty sure if Joe can do something with batch files, Joe knows what he needs to search for on google to find out how to do it in a bash script. It certainly won't take a year for Joe to do what he wants to do, and this is basically how I learned to do shell scripting. If I needed to know how to do something, I looked it up, and if I used any particular feature frequently enough it became stuck in my head.

Now, if you can provide me a batch file, I can try and show you a shell script that does the same thing (granted a difference in directory structure) that is no more difficult to write or understand. If I can't, I'll admit I'm wrong.

Gee, I really spent too much time on this post, I think I've gone full-Cheeto. 
Forgot to add @baker in the title of my last post. Also, I'm really sorry I strayed so far off-topic on this. I hope I didn't start a flame war in an on-topic board. 
I made a knave brick breakable and got it running in my map.

Only issue is lighting.

the AD readme say: "It is recommended that all new bmodels be compiled with minimum lighting
using the following command line (tycompiler\light -light 150 %1) The light
value (150) should be changed to suit the location of the breakable."

I used a value of 100 instead of the "%1" a typo? 
solved my own issue.

I had made two breakables and before reading the readme...i didnt use lighting.

after the readme, i only added lighting to one of them.


also, forgot i set the breakables up to use both, thought they were to only use the one i had set up lighting for.

but, hooray. stoked for "custom" breakables! 
What engine is that? 
I really spent too much time on this post

If you want to be helpful ...

Then post a script + instructions on how to use to solve Naitelveni's Mac + TrenchBroom problems he stated above to compile a map, get it in his Quake folder and tell him how to use it. 
guys, i cant even compile maps on windows, there is no basic information anywhere on how to compile maps, it tried to search everywhere. its like the fucking illuminati here.... 
if someone could make a very basic step by step tutorial on how to compile a map it would be awesome. 
why cant someone make a mapping tool that can automaticly export maps? just press export just like in photoshop or InDesign... 
- Save your .map file in the quake/id1/maps/ directory.
- Extract the compile tools in that directory as well.
- Open a command prompt in that directory (see: ), and
enter the following commands:


- run quake, and at the console, type "map mymap"

Download the files in this thread. These are the tools you put into the compiler in Trenchbroom.

Copy this word for word, except for the file locations. Youll use the ones you downloaded above.

Take a look at all the documentation included with Trenchbroom and the Compiling tools. Theres some fancy stuff youll have to add to the parameters line for stuff like bounce lighting. Below are my current settings for a Full Compile. Notice in one of the paramters line i have "-bounce -bouncecolorscale 1 -extra4", read through the documentation with the compiling tools to make sense of these. 
On windows:
1) Basically download this compiler: tyrutils-ericw tools
2) And this GUI for compilation: ne_q1spCompilingGui103
3) Compiling with this GUI tool is self explanatory, but here are some settings I'm using atm: GUI - Settings
You should be able to figure out what is what.

Mac script should be trivial to write. If you take a look at the compiler's documentation, you should be able to do it yourself. If not, tomorrow I can see what we can do for you. 
"- Extract the compile tools in that directory as well. "

what are compile tools and where do i get them?

and do i install the compile tools inside id1/maps? 
"- Extract the compile tools in that directory as well. "

what are compile tools and where do i get them?

and do i install the compile tools inside id1/maps? 
Weve linked the compile tools to you multiple times, but here it is again:

You can put them anywhere. Its best to put them in their own folder within your Quake folder.

I remember you saying youre using trenchbroom. this screen is exactly what youll enter in your screen. replace "Y:/Quake/Compilers/vis.exe" with the location of the tools you downloaded. 
i should probably mention youll need to replace "Y:/Quake/Compilers/qbsp.exe" and "Y:/Quake/Compilers/light.exe" as well.

Read through this, specifically the "Time to Compile!" section: 
"qbsp.exe" is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file 
i have qbsp,light and vis in my id1/map/bin folder now what? 
1) Click on the plus to add proper actions;
2) Select qbsp, vis, light - like on the attached image;
3) Fill "Parameters" you want to execute - maybe first just copy what you can see on the screenshot...
4) Run compilation;
5) Let me know if compilation has succeeded, so we can move further;

Image for above instructions 
Nada, nothing happens 
itd be REALLY helpful for you to include a screenshot of what you typed into the compiler in Trenchbroom and we can likely explain why it didnt work. 
waht went wrong? 
That's Windows 10?

If you shift+right click in an empty spot in the maps folder does it list an option to "Open command window here" ? If so, do it and type in the command manually.


Make sure both the map file and qbsp.exe are in that folder. 
Rick! You are the man! I got my map to work! 
Also Mukor, khreator,ericw every one here! much love and thank you for your patience! now i can finally start working on my first project! 
There Are Spaces In The Paths 
It's possible that TB cannot handle those properly. If that turns out to be the problem, please create a bug report. 
hey, i could run the qbsp.exe via command line but it doesn not incule the vis or light. Trenchbroom compiling still diesnt work. it just doesnt do anything.

Here is a screenshot from my compiler and the paths where my qbsp vis and light are also the map im working on. i can run the qbsp via commandline but ofcourse it will not include any lights that i have added to my map. 
As I said, it's likely due to the spaces in the paths. 
Treat It Like 3 Compilers 
First run qbsp to compile the geometry and collisions.

Second run vis to compile the visibility calculations so the engine doesn't have to draw the whole map at once all the time.

Third run light to compile the lighting. 
Make a batch file in the maps folder and run it the same way as I explained for qbsp.exe

light.exe mapname.bsp
vis.exe mapname.bsp

Right click in maps folder and choose new text document. Call it makebsp (or something). Copy and paste or type in those 3 lines above but change mapname to your map's name.

Save the file then change the extension from .txt to .bat, there will probably be a warning about changing it, but just okay it.

Use shift+right click to open the command window and type makebsp and hit enter.

i created a textfile and wrote all that in it. then ran the command window with makebsp. opened the map in quake and it did not draw the light i had put in the map. 
Quick Question 
I remember that there is a way to turn every wall into white, maybe a cvar, but i cannot get to remember how, any idea? 
It didnt draw lighting because you have a leak in your map. 
Ahh, I built my map so that brushes dont overlap each other, should they overlap to prevent leaking? 
You should be able to do "File>Load Point File" in trenchbroom and head to the folder youre building your map in and find the .pts file with the same name as your map.

This creates a line on your map that will snake around the map and eventually point to your leak. You might have more than one leak, so you may have to load the point file after each compile until its solved. 
my trenchbroom only created a .map of my file and i dont have a .pts file anywhere. I ran the makebsp command line and it did not allow the usage of light and vis. 
my antivirus program was freakingout about vis and light XD now i have that also worked out! 
At least there is progress. Now you should only have normal mapping problems.

When you build a map out of brushes there is an "inside" and an "outside". The inside is the playing area where the light and monsters and player belong. Outside is the "void".

Think of the "void" as water and the inside of the map is like a submarine, where the air is. You must use brushes to make sure the inside is completely sealed from the outside so that the water will not "leak" in. 
glad it worked out. I'm not sure what is causing the antivirus warning.

Ahh, I built my map so that brushes dont overlap each other, should they overlap to prevent leaking?
They don't need to overlap, the brushes that form the outer boundary just need to seal tight (they should be snapped to grid).

It didnt draw lighting because you have a leak in your map.
light.exe should work fine with leaking maps, it will take longer to compute lighting though, and run a lot slower in game. 
im really making good progress on my map and learning, i love how textures can be stretched, rotated and alligned in very fine detail. Triggers are pretty simple also (at the moment).
my map already has alot of lights and it and the compiling time is pretty high, about 10 mintes at the moment. is it normal to have such high compilation times? 
I usually have about 43 seconds for light using ericw's multithreaded tyrlight.exe. Although, I do have an 8-core 3.4ghz processor. Qbsp takes forever at about 2min. Vis takes like 5-10min. Depends on your map size and whether or not you have a leak. 
Naite said compiling time is around 10mins, which is consistent with your 5-10min estimate for vis. 
10 Minutes A Long Time? 
There's no way to say for sure without knowing what kind of computer it is, what the map is like, and what is used to compile it.

I can build the same map on two different machines and compilers and it takes almost 40 minutes on one to about 3 minutes on the other.

So, it depends. 
The only certainty is that vis is usually a lot longer than bsp and light. 
Thanks Mugwump! Its good to know that vis takes a long time.

Im very inspired by the videos by Custom Gamer in youtube, where usually Daz talk about cool maps. Im very impressed by the maps made by sock and i was wonder how do i create coloured lights, fog and a skybox? 
ok, now i have a recursion on leaf 551. whats that all about? 
now i fixed the problem i accidentally copied a bunch of bruches and sent them to the far corners of the void. :D
my map is a spacemap and its got alot of light entities in it along with brushes that are shaped as terrain. is that the reason my compiling is taking 2586 seconds. Visdatasize is 104036. 
Actually Easy Question 
Hi i want to create a func_train.

I created a brush gave it an world entity property func_train and created entity path corner. how do i name target and targetname?

does the train have a targetname? or do i assign target name to the path corner entity (for examlpe traincorner1) and then give the func_train target (traincorner1.) 
heres a screenshot of how i thought it would work. 
Extending/scaling Brushes Size In Certain Axis? 
I know there is lifts/paltform, but is there possible to make brush that is like a floor but then rises scales up and is still locked to the floor level only the size changes? Because I have no any other idea how to make forces fields or force field floors like in this Metal Monstrosity by Sock. There is these yellow force field floors appearing after pressing some buttons. But that is not func_train? 
Horizontal func_door?

You can always check the source of metmon and see exactly how Sock did it as well. 
Space maps are usually pretty wide open and will take a long time to vis unless constructed very carefully. It's debatable whether anything more than vis -fast is worthwhile. Maybe if it has a lot of inside areas.

Func_train needs a starting target to move to. Give the first path_corner a targetname and use that as the func_train target. Give the first path_corner a target. Use the targetname of the next path_corner for the train to move to. And so on.

You can't make a door or platform that changes size. You make it as big as it needs to be, then place it down in the floor or whatever until it's used. Then it will rise when used and appear to "grow".

You could also just make a flat brush into a func_door that rises and lowers when triggered. 
Great success! thank you Rick! now i have a better understanding of triggers and trigger names, i also created a door that works with a trigger 
All I can think of is two func_trains or func_doors both placed inside walls/floors other sides waiting.. after pressing button, both of them moves to the middle where "lights touches" and that is what made that effect look so natural. So if this is the only way to do it, then shall be it since it works. 
is that the reason my compiling is taking 2586 seconds
Again, it's impossible for us to judge your compiling times without knowing your hardware, software, and the size and complexity of your map. 15-20 years ago, maps could take days to vis. Yes, days! Things are much better now but it still takes some time. You'll never compile a map in the blink of an eye, unless it consists of one boxy room and not much else.

A skybox is a set of 6 textures named according to the sides of a cube: the Sahara skybox, for example, is comprised of sahara_bk.tga (back), sahara_dn.tga (down), sahara_ft.tga (front), sahara_lf.tga (left), sahara_rt.tga (right) and sahara_up.tga (up). They're to be placed in a \gfx\env subfolder, either in \id1 or in a mod folder. I know how to tell a map to use a specific skybox via an .ent file for Darkplaces, but a more knowledgeable mapper will be able to tell you the better, engine-independent implementation method.

Same with fog: I could tell you the .ent file method but that's not the better method, which I do not know. I've read that CZG used brushes as fog in his Honey masterpiece. Maybe you can study it to see how it's done.

Colored lighting comes in two flavors: .rtlights a.k.a. real-time lights achieve better results but are restricted to the engines supporting them, namely Darkplaces and FTE. .lit or .dlit files are more widely supported but have more limited possibilities and are not processed in real-time. RTlights are edited directly in Darkplaces (type apropos r_editlights in the console for a list of the various commands and their effects). A program called MHColour can generate .lits automatically but the results can range from good to very average depending on the map. You can edit .lits manually but again, you'll need the input of a more knowledgeable mapper for that. 
As for leaf recursing, I've found something about it on this very old help page:
Check the 4th entry in the chart. You might also find some use to the rest of this page (except the "editor" section, which seems to no longer exist). Not sure how much of it all is still relevant but I doubt it's completely useless. 
Am I missing something? Both J.A.C.K. and TrenchBroom(which i believe is what hes using) have these options within the editor. first three pictures are Trenchbroom, the last one is J.A.C.K.

even QUARK had these in the editor. 
Heh, like I said, "more knowledgeable mappers"... I'm still wrapping my head around the building phase. 
Im wondering where you got the information to do it in that way. It seems like it might have been the way to do it back in the day, but its far from convenient now.

also, that troubleshooting guide might not work for him as its likely based on the original compilers. hes using tyrutils.

dont knock yourself. It doesnt surprise me you can edit them thru the .ent and .lit and such, but it just never crossed my mind to do it like that or that it was a way that people would teach each other anymore. 
.ent files are still used a lot in Darkplaces and in fact, AFAIK it's the only way to add something in a map without having to de/recompile it. Basically, if the map is not yours and you don't have the source .map, you're stuck with .ent editing.

it just never crossed my mind to do it like that or that it was a way that people would teach each other anymore.
Which is why I've stressed several times that it wasn't the best method and that other, more experienced mappers would know the way. The guy had questions left unanswered, so I wanted to provide whatever rudiments of an answer I could muster. 
Fog In Quake 
Fog is a key/value pair that is set in Worldspawn.

"fog" "n.nnn"

It ranges from 0 to 1. Lower values seem to look better, 0.5 is pretty thick fog.

You can set the color by adding an optional RGB value:

"fog" "n.nnn r.rr"

Fog can also be typed in as a console command, just leave off the quotes:

fog 0.25 
If a skybox is used it must be in the correct location gfxenv which can be in QuakeID or in the game folder or inside a .pak file

The skybox will need to be set using a key/value pair in worldspawn:

"sky" "skyboxname_"

Note the underscore. The engine will find all the parts automatically. Sky can also be typed in as a console command, just leave off the quotes:

sky skyboxname_

Do not forget the underscore. 
Do you need the underscore?

At least for AD I know that it is not needed to get the skybox to take effect. 
I always figured the underscore was just used as a separator. Most skyboxes I've seen use it, but I don't think it's necessary.

Seems like if it's used you would need to include it, because the up dn rt lf stuff gets appended to the name when the engine tries to load the sky.

sky moonlit tries to load moonlitup moonlitdn, etc.

sky moonlit_ tries to load moonlit_up moonlit_dn, etc.

I've never really tested it out though. 
I just did with a .ent file in DP: I removed all the underscores from both the .ent and the filenames and it works just fine, so I suppose it'll be the same in a map editor. 
The names have to match though: you can't remove the underscore in the files and keep it in the worldspawn header or vice versa, but that was to be expected. 
Mukor, mugwump. Huhhuh, you guys make my head spin! Rick you come in with some really solid and answers.

- Darkplaces, i assume is an engine that runs quake, I my self use QUakespasm. It is both supported by windows and osX (im mapping with windows 8 because eric thought how to compile maps with windows but im really a mac user, i Have a 2013 imac)

All the scripts and coding jargon really dont help a novice like me at the moment unless you can tell me every single specific step that is required to take. IE "no.1 open trenchbroom" "no.1 click blaablaablaa.." etc.

Mapping and this message board has filled all my life with a strong impact, all my waking hours i think about mapping, and posibilities I can create and how to solve them. im insired and motivated! :)

- From a visual point I think coloured lights and a fog give a big boost to visuals. cold light and warm light create dyamic in spaces and fog creates a nice contract between distances.

My compiling time went way down when I scratched my project and started anew from the same kind of visual ideas i had, without using a space map consept. Im able to create the illusion of a larger world even without skyboxes at the moment but i still want to learn how to create them. In doom its so much simpler. At the moment my map concept is a darker, fantasylike world. i have also created func_trains to give my world more life.

My main challenge at the moment is lighting. This makes me constatly save, compile and run my map to know hot to create lights. i guess this element of mapping comes with more expirience.

still if you guys can give me concrete instructions on how to create fog and coloured lights it would help me in the future!

p.s. there is no heart on the emoticons!!! hahah, Im such a softie.. 
Colored Lights 
To make a light colored you give a light entity the _color key and give it a value of the color you want.


Key: _color Value: 255 0 0

This would give bright red which you would not want to do in a map.

For colored lights, subtlety is usually the best practice.

Value: 255 225 225

Would give a more visually appealing red color which could be used to portray red stained glass windows or what have you. 
Did you take a look at the pictures linked by mukor in post #17482? From what I can see in the first two pictures, fog and skybox are defined in the worldspawn (the very first entry at the top of your entity manager). The third picture shows you the color parameter in a light's properties. What more do you need? 
If using 0-255 for the 3 values doesn't work (e.g. 255 255 0 for orange) then you may need to use 1.0 1.0 0 using values of 0 thru 1. 
Color Keys 
color uses range 0-255
_color uses range 0-1

both are supported, don't mix them. 
Great Clarification, MFX! 
Good to know. 
Mugwump, sry i missed it but now i opened it. 
Modifying Entities, Twice 
.ent files are still used a lot in Darkplaces and in fact, AFAIK it's the only way to add something in a map without having to de/recompile it. Basically, if the map is not yours and you don't have the source .map, you're stuck with .ent editing.

An old tool called adquedit lets you embed a modified .ent file into a .bsp file without the need for recompiling. This has the advantage of working in all engines, but the disadvantage that you have to send a much larger file.

For a more esoteric way of editing entities in a map, see: 
qbsp can update the entities in a bsp also, using -onlyents and a .map file. AFAIK .ent is just a renamed .map without any brushes. 
Thanks Preach & Metlslime 
One More Method 
Once I used a hex editor to change the entities in L4D2 Dark Carnival versus finale, so that the survivors couldn't get to the stands, and had to fight on the stage like the rock gods intended. So if you're crazy then that option also exists, the entity block is just plain text in there... 
I've used 0-255 for _color since I first began adding colored light and it works fine.

I standardized on only about ten or so different colors for consistency. As an example, all torches use one color, all lava another, etc. I have many custom textures which have light3_8 pasted in to serve as a light source and these all use the same color.

One advantage to this is if I decide to change a light color for some reason, it can be done easily by search and replace in a
Notepad++ or other text editor.

"_color" "255 240 224" > "_color" "255 192 208"

Not so easy to change the colors of thirty or more torches for example, if "color picker" or something has been used and all have similar, but slightly different values.

Using ericw's surface light is also a way to make mass color changes, as long as the light is associated with a certain texture. 
I used "_color" entity key and trenchbroom offered a colour picker. I made some tests and it all worked out very nicely. 
H E L P 
Sup chaps, I feel stupid for asking this but apparently I'm missing something.

I'm trying to make a trigger_push function like a jumppad in q3 (shooting the player vertically but slightly angled, maybe 5 degrees). However I don't know how to angle it upwards.

I'm using TB2, ty. 
angle -1 is up
angle -2 is down. 
Though if you want it angled slightly you can set the angles key directly:

Not that it's "angles" instead of "angle"
The first number of angles is the pitch. Note that you need to set it as negative to have it point upward. -80 is 10 degrees offset from straight up.
The second number is yaw. 270 is southward in the map.
The last number is roll and should be left at 0 since it does nothing. 
Perfect, thanks guys.

Unfortunately I assumed because the preview arrow doesn't seem to update properly (in TB2) that it wasn't working.

Now stop helping me and make more maps! 
Bounce / Radiosity & Phong Shading 
Hi guys,

Now that i have been introduced to the basics of mapping i've been busy designing my first map. Lighting the map and creating polished looking areas takes alot of time for me at the moment but its alot of fun.

I revisited Ericw's tytutils github-site, and i really like the Bounce / radiosity and Phong shading. How do i add the lighting to my map? 
Did you check the light section of Ericw's site?

I believe this has the all information. 
For phong shading, just set the "_phong" "1" key/value on a func_ entity. If you have some regular worldspawn brushes that are not part of an entity, but you want them phong shaded, you can group them into a func_group or func_detail and then set that key.

To confirm it's working, do a compile with the "-phongdebug" command-line option for light.exe, the load it in the engine and enter "r_lightmap 1"; you should see something like this

For bounce: add "-bounce" to your light command line, or set "_bounce" "1" in worldspawn. There is a "_bouncescale" option to tune the brightness of bounce lighting, check the screenshots at: 
So i do this in Trenchbroom?

set_ "_bounce" "1"

then to set the scale i type "_bouncescale" 
Yep That Should Do It 
That looks like too many lights, especially if you're going to use bounce (which sort of gives you fill lighting for free).

Maybe try deleting some of those and adding some light sources that have a matching texture or a torch/flame entity 
Youll probably want to completely redo all your lighting once you start using bounce.

give "extra" or "extra4" a try too.

I have it in my compiler settings, but you might be able to add it to the "worldspawn" like you did with "_bounce".

Note that when you do it in the compiler you use a dash(-extra) and when you do it in the worldspawn you use an underscore(_extra)

were you ever able to get the trenchbroom compiler working, nait? 
Holy moly i got alot more light now, and its alot smoother! i redid all my lights, its alot simpler to do lighting now that i have the bounce on! I dont get those nasty deep dark areas that used to fill most of my map or thos over burned highlights, its so much softer!

I never actually got the trenchbroom compiler to work. I also gave up on it once i got Ericw's method to work (terminal).

I was watching Custom gamer once again while doing my map, this time a map by MFX and it made me want to play the map rather than just watch the map narrated by Daz's lovely voice (haha, but he does have a nice voice). So im trying to install Quoth, I have it in my folder Quake/quoth and in it the pak0.pak, pak1.pak nad pak2.pak. here is the problem where do i put the commands: -hipnotic -game quoth? In the console of quakespasm? They didnt work there.. 
You're on macOS right? When you double click on you should get the launcher, put "-hipnotic -game quoth" in there. e.g. 
ericw, im actually on windows because you gave me instructions on how to compile in windows. 
i know that the mac app gives those commands on start but the windows one doesnt. 
Ok, cool. Spirit made a gif of how to add command line args on windows :)

he's using fitzquake.exe in that example but that procedure will work with any engine including quakespasm 
Now Add Dirt! 
I played the mapjampack7, the first map was visually stunning and so was the starting room. The second map bugged out, i couldnt get out of the zombie room once all the zombies were dead. The fourth map where the elevator goes up crashed once i left the elevator. XD

but really solid efforts by all the mappers! 
Jam7 2.2 

Make sure you install the Quoth patch (2.2)

This is will most likely be the cause of any issues you encounter. 
For me Map Jam 7 become more like a disaster than success...
Most people never upgraded to Quoth 2.2 and because of that, few maps doesn't work at all, mine is broken. Not working map is a less of a problem imo, because you can definitely see something is not right.
My map starts just fine, but it breaks after a first minute. Most people noclip through the door and they continue with broken vending machines = not enough health or ammo. Few of them just quit after they see doors are broken. They just see this map as a broken piece of shit.


After they discover that other maps don't work, because of outdated Quoth, they update and never go back to my map. They:
a) don't want to waste their time to check out if that was a problem;


b) don't know that outdated Quoth was a problem and they blame me.

This happens in 80% of cases with this pack.

Hopefully retro jam map will work flawlessly, otherwise I quit this shit, lol ;D 
Lol hey maybe that was just me ok. No hard feelings. The jam didn't specify to use the latest version of Quoth so it's not on you.

Incidentally, it bundled Quoth with it did it not? Did it not bundle the right version? At work so can't check. 
Original package has Quoth included, but Quaddicted one is repacked with Quoth stripped from it. 
Oh shit! Now i really need to get the mappack to work properly, i feel bad after hearing that! It all looked really nice.

Is there a thread on upcoming mappack jams and how to give maps for review?

P.s. If i dont get maps, mods, editors, scripts to work properly its because im a noob! :) 
Is there a thread on upcoming mappack jams
Not a general thread, no, but there should be one for each Func_ jam. 
Ericw Hint Brushes 
Is there a tutorial out there for using hint brushes. I guess what I'm missing is being able to see what's being drawn in my client in certain areas to actually test the brushes. But a tutorial would be more helpful I think for me than stumbling through it myself.

Hint surfaces cause a bsp split and portal to be generated the on the surface plane, after which they are removed from the final bsp - they are neither visible, nor structural. Strategic placement of hint surfaces can be used by a map author to optimise the PVS calculations so as to limit overdraw by the engine (see also: vis(1)).
Use a texture with the name hintskip on any surfaces of a hint brush which you don�t want to generate bsp splits or portals. All surfaces of a hint brush must use either the hint or hintskip texture name." 
DarkPlaces can render the BSP portals with r_drawportals 1. This gives a visualization of how space is split up into BSP leafs, and should show whether the hint brush is working. I don't think Quake mappers have used them much. 
Trencbroom 2.0 Q2 Map Compile 
I'm trying to compile my q2 map with Trenchbroom 2, using qbsp3, qrad3, qvis3, and I get error: "Execution of command 'C:\name\etc\etc\ failed (error 740: the requested operation requires elevation.)"
What does that mean and how do I fix it?

One thing, I've never really known what parameters to use for map compiles, and have always just wung it, usually resulting in fine luck. So I'm thinking it might have something to do with that.

Any help would be appreciated. 
Also I'm using Win10. 
Share a screenshot of your compiler settings. Might be all we need to figure it out for ya. 
One Thing To Try 
Is to use a path without spaces in it. Spaces in paths are notorious for causing trouble. But in this case, it looks more like a permission problem. 
Also Google The Error Message 
Ok I no longer get the error, but nothing compiles. It spits: #### Executing 'C:\Users\Sean\Desktop\Trenchbroom2\q2compiletools\qbsp3.exe -gamedir H:\Quake2\baseq2'
---- qbsp3 ----

************ ERROR ************
Unknown option "-gamedir"
#### Finished with exit status 1

#### Executing 'C:\Users\Sean\Desktop\Trenchbroom2\q2compiletools\qrad3.exe -v'
----- Radiosity ----
8 threads

************ ERROR ************
usage: qrad [-v] [-chop num] [-scale num] [-ambient num] [-maxlight num] [-threads num] bspfile
#### Finished with exit status 1

#### Executing 'C:\Users\Sean\Desktop\Trenchbroom2\q2compiletools\qvis3.exe -fast'
---- vis ----
fastvis = true

************ ERROR ************
usage: vis [-threads #] [-level 0-4] [-fast] [-v] bspfile
#### Finished with exit status 1

Is this a Trenchbroom bug or me? 
The Parameters Are All Wrong 
Re: Problem With Corrupted Map File 
i just had this problem with the map i've been working on in trenchbroom, it's the same issue i think. How did you fix it? not sure what you mean by 'zero the nans' or what you used to fix it. a hex editor? 
Hi guys! How do i make a teleporter in trenchbroom?

I made a brush and gave it a "classname" "trigger_teleport" set the "target" to "abc"
then i created a brush with the "classname" "teleport_destination" and gave it "targetname" "abc"

It doesnt work!

how do i really make a teleporter.

and a followup question. how do i make a monster teleporter? 
The entity you're looking for is info_teleport_destination and it's a point entity.
And for monster teleport, put one around a monster and give it a name, then trigger it (with a func_button or a trigger_once for example). 
trigger_once -> teleport -> info_teleport_destination. In special room place monster in teleport. Voila! 
I created a path corner entity and gave it the "targetname" "abc" and gave the teleport the "target" "abc"
its worked.

But i couldnt get the monster teleporter to work properly.

personal teleporter works just fine but monsterteleporter doesnt. xLarve, you need to give me more basic instructions than that. 
It's very simple:
Put a monster somewhere, preferably in an unreachable room.
Put a trigger_teleport around it, give this trigger_teleport a name and target an info_teleport_destination so your monster can get teleported.
Put a trigger_once somewhere in your map and target the trigger_teleport.

Once you cross your trigger_once the monster will teleport to the designated info_teleport_destination. 
You do not use a path corner for the teleport target.

Use info_teleport_destination point entity.

This is what needs to be targeted by the trigger_teleport. 
Great success! 
How Do I Create This? 
Heres my idea for an encounter in my room. You shoot a button to lower a lift that contains a silver key, shooting the button teleports a bunch of enemies to you to deal with and the lift lowers down very slowly. 
Just give your lift and your few trigger_teleport the same targetname, and have the func_button target them. Obviously each trigger_teleport will have to target a different info-_teleport_destination, otherwise you'll get telefragged monsters. 
Thanks skacky!

how do i create the lift so that it only goes down once and does not return back up once the player walks ontop of it? 
You can make it a func_door with a down angle and with a wait value of -1. It opens and stays open. You'll need to calculate a proper lip value to get it to lower exactly where you want it though. 
The door angle is now set for the horizontal plane, how do i set it vertically? So it will go from top to bottom. 
Set the angle value to -1. -2 is up. 
Exporting Maps To A BSP Format In Trenchbroom 
Okay, Just Downloaded Trenchbroom And Already... Alright? At It But I Have One Problem. When I Save A Map It Saves As A .map File, Normal But How Do I Make It A .bsp File Im Looking For A Export To BSP File Button But Cant Find One Please Help.

P.S. I Think I Look Like An Idiot XD 
Its all working very nicely now, thanks.

What would i do if i wanted to make like an arena type of situation where the enemies would appear in waves, lets say in 10 second intervals.

I could make the arena so that there are multiple platforms, the slowest one has the key and faster ones have health and ammo pickups! >:D
holy moly my map is going to be cool! 
You'd have to use a bunch of trigger_relay for that, with a delay value of 10. Each trigger_relay would target a few trigger_teleport. 
1. For exporting map into .bsp download this into your computer:

2. then extract them inside your id1/maps folder

3. Create a text file inside your mapsfolder and type this in the text file:
light.exe mapname.bsp
vis.exe mapname.bsp

4. save the text file mapname.bat

5. now open maps folder in windows and press down shift, then right click. Select command prompt and type in mapname
this will "compile" the map.

6. start quake and in console type: map mapname 
oh yes and remember to save your map inside the maps folder!! :) 
Skacky, Do i set trigger_relay inside trigger_teleport? 
Why would you do that? The trigger_relay entity doesn't physically exist in game, you can put it anywhere you want as long as it's not out in the void (in which case your map will leak). 
I thought it was an attribute i give to the trigger_teleport. Im still very new at mapping. 
Ah, I misunderstood. No, the trigger_relay is a separate entity entirely (it's a point entity). 
Skacky, you are the best!
it worked perfectly! 
P.S. I Think I Look Like An Idiot XD
Nope, only like a n00b. However, Capitalizing The Initials Of Every Single Word Is Indeed Pretty Idiotic, so you may want to refrain from doing that... ;) 
Teleport Target 
Incidentally, you don't have to target an info_teleport_destination. So long as the target is a point entity, you can target it.

For instance, you could have a room with no ammo and a button. Run past the enemies and push the button. Then have teleporters target each of the enemies and telefrag monsters on top of them to kill all the monsters. Yes monsters can act as a teleport destination. Heck you could even use a light as a teleport destination. 
Hey, i just realized that in quake you use keys only once, so now i need to create a door that opens with delay. My first attempt was to create a trigger_relay with the delay "45" and then target the the door.
It did not work. How do i create this scenario?

for recap:
-I have button that has target: A
-Targetname:A are the platform that lowers(carrying the key), teleport that instantly teleports 5 zombies in different locations, Trigger_relay that has delay of 10 that releports a shambler and another trigger_relay that spawns 5 knights after 15 delay. This all works nicely but the door does not work.

P.S. Also a more embarresing question about my rash downstairs, no im kidding the embarresing question is: how do i create a shootable button? 
For your last question:

Give a func_button a key called "health" with a value of "1" or whatever amount of damage you want it to endure before activating. 
Naitelveni, for example - im opened map e3m7 - secret level- this is small and good map - and there is monster which teleported.
each mosters placed in seperately very small rooms. In rooms placed unique trigger_teleports with connecting for each yourself unique info_teleport_destination. Make trigger_once - connect it to trigger_teleports 
trigger_teleport must be covered monster - thats he ccan run out from trigger_teleports field 
Question: How far along have you gotten before giving up on a map before? My previous map in a similar style was/is quite long at this point, with a lot of effort put into it (months). But i've lost my motivation to work on it recently

I have pulled the plug on numerous map attempts because of not being able to visualize what the map could become. Unlike Giftmacher, I find I need to see finish pieces of my map in order to gain drive to continue. He is right when it comes to base layout being not fun (at least for me) but levels need building blocks so the fun content/details can be contained within!

So far, I have released two jams and one personal-no deadline map (The hardest to complete IMHO). and it looks like I will complete my 2nd one...although there is still more to go. I am 50% complete with the layout but of that 50% there is light detailing, lighting, texturing, and even gameplay elements already present. This gives me a feel for the map and the motivation to keep going. Basically, if I go and test my map and I say: "I like this!" then I know I am on track.

Iteration is key, if you worked for days on a single uber hallway you don't want to even consider moving or removing it. You may work around it but never realize the actual mapping block is that hallway! A little bit ago I posted that I deleted 75% of my map and it was good for my map's life because of it. That 75% cut is actually now the map I am currently sharing in the screenshots thread.

I think I decided to go long here because I hate to hear you have been working for months on a project (That looked really nice btw!) and want to call it quits. I think you should continue on that map and either shorten the layout or considering iteration to see if motivation comes back. Either way, at least you gained more techniques from it.

I need to actually see my map in action (Detail, lights, textures, theme) in order to retain drive. Try laying out single sections at a time then giving it the works before moving to the next. 
I give up on maps after a certain time because I realise that my vision for the map and my skills don't align.

Already it takes me a long time to map, but to map with the level of detail I want, it takes an extra effort.

Let me post an example screenshot of a map that is on hiatus: 
I plan on a whole city street with that style of building (and some more detailed).

The thought of the time consumed doing that is a bit... disheartening. 
I DID NOT ask about monster teleporter or delay for it. i ASKED about DELAY ON DOOR. :D 
Does anyone know a good way to get chunks of gore/gibs into my map? I'm talking about either textures, or, preferably, how to use the stock gibs as models somehow. I'm using AD. 
Gib models are found in ad\progs directory.

Plenty to choose from! ;) 
Thanks, I thought it'd be simple. I also found a pile of bones :O 
Just started visualizing map layout by drawing different layers of them to individual A4 papers. When putting them together and facing them against bright light, you will quite easily to see how certain areas could be stacked together. The most common problems with 3d designs is that height can be overlooked when thinking basic layout.. since even basic layout is not just in one height layer. 
Unless if you actually create map that doesn't have different heights* 
Finding Unkilled Monsters 
Recently I had to track down some un-killed monsters. Here is a hacky way of doing that (maybe there is an easier way?):

1. make a save when you've killed 298/300 monsters or whatever.
2. open the save in a text editor, I used VS Code
3. go to edit->find, and paste this in as the search query, and enable regular expression mode (the .* icon in VS Code):

classname" "monster_[^}]*\n"health" "[1-9]

That searches for monsters with positive health. The [^}]* bit skips 0 or more characters that are not the closing brace. Not exactly sure why the \n is needed. 
first map - a week
second map - a month
third map - three months
fourth map - half year
fifh map - a year
last map - three years
next map - god, I love it! 
I've been trying to compile my quake map, made with Trenchbroom 1, and for some reason it's full-bright, and there's an error that says "Processing hull 1...
WARNING: No entities in empty space -- no filling performed
Processing hull 2...
WARNING: No entities in empty space -- no filling performed"

It's starting to piss me off because upon reading about it people say an entity might be too close to a wall or something, so I deleted all entities besides the spawn, and I moved that around, etc. Then I started a new map just to test things, and still the same result. But now instead of just that error the map's full bright for no real reason.

Does anyone know what would cause this?
The tools I'm using are Txqbsp.exe, Wvis.exe, light.exe. All just default params from neqsp1compiling gui. 
Any Reason Why You're Not Using Trenchbroom 2? 
Im actually working on something to help new mappers compile maps with relative ease. Should be useful to advanced mappers once I do more work to it. Its batch file, so this is for Windows.

sorry for 7zip. shouldve used rar or zip.

"v0.25" is up on Quaketastic if you wish to try it out. Ill have a more in depth version soon.

This is designed to work with, but will support other compilers in the future.

Im working on it as we speak so it might be the updated version by the time you get back here. 
Create small repo with it :D

v0.50 is up.

It'll show the settings for each compiling process(qbsp,vis,light) and let you set them.

Im trying to figure out how to have the user either write simple configs by hand or have the batch file save them.

I feel like if I can figure out how to use handwritten configs, its relatively close to figuring out how to have it save them. 
Hey that's a nifty tool.
The map compiles but it's fully bright. There are no leaks and it's only pretty much a square room.
This didn't used to happen. 
Do you have any light entities in your map?

also, are you using the tools it links to in the readme? 
yea I am.
And putting a light in the map fixed it.
I just wasted hours waving my fist at the sun, wondering wtf was going on lol. 
Awesome! Happy the tool could help! 
Texture WAD Tools 
I'm having no luck when googling for a solution to this:

I've got a folder with several images in 32-bit color PNG format, to turn into textures. Batch converting them into TGAs isn't a problem, but I'm finding no way to automate the process of converting each TGA image into a MIP texture and packing the resulting MIP files into a WAD file. Fimg helps a lot when it comes to individual textures, but it doesn't perform batch operations and has a few usability quirks that doesn't make things easier when creating dozens of textures.

Is there no tool for this? 
No idea about a batch tool (Wally is supposed to do that but it doesn't seem to work), but you'd better convert your images to 8-bit indexed to Quake palette before mipping or your submips can suffer some color corruption. It happened to me when working on my SinCity wad. 
Re: Texture Wad Tools Mankrip

Would something like that help at all? And I'm sure you are familiar with texmex / wally. 
I've had some success using gfxgale and xnconvert

I know the GIMP has a scriptable plugin for batch stuff too. 
Qompiler V0.75 
My little compiler is almost done.

You are now able to create and load configs that will save the values you set for qbsp, vis, and light.

Simply Extract the zip into a folder called "Qompiler". Put any .maps you wish to compile in the Qompiler folder and double click Qompiler.bat. 
foogs: Holy crap, texture2quake seems exactly like what I need.
I had actually forgotten about TexMex and Wally...

Mugwump: Corrupted submips aren't a problem for my specific case. Retroquad recreates all submips, and my need for WADs is mostly for map editor support, because the game itself is going to use external textures. 
Bsp -> Map Conversion 
Hi all,

For some reasons I'd like to convert a bsp file into map file. Is there any tool being able to do that ?

Thanks a lot in advance

The Aptly Named Bsp2map? 

/me gonna check this, and re-post if not working ;) 
Qompiler V0.80

You can now choose what compiling tools(QBSP, VIS, LIGHT) you wish to run and these, along with the settings you choose for the tools, will be saved to a config that you can load on the next run.

Still some small hiccups in the script but everything goes fine. Ill spend the next couple days cleaning and reorganizing the structure of the script.

What compilers do you guys use?

Currently its set to run with tyrutil-ercw, but I'd like to put the descriptions/settings for a couple other tools as well.

Thinking of adding a feature to choose where you dump the compiled maps. Definitely want to add one to show the config names in a list. 
that forced me to turn RTworld off - this is becoming a trend among new maps lately

Any suggestion on how you preserve "RT lighting" on DarkPlaces? Is there a specific light setting that causes overbrights? 
Dunno. Even if I have RTworld on without specific .rtlights files, I never encounter this problem with older maps.

Idea: I seem to remember having read that Tyrutils-ericw can generate .rtlights. Since some of you guys already provide .lits with your maps, I guess it wouldn't be too much of a hassle to also provide the .rtlights for us DP enthusiasts. 
If you can do some research/testing on how to provide .rtlights or what makes the overbright issue occur I would have no issue supplying/compensating one with my next release.

My only quibble is that if it turns out RT lights require certain light settings to not be used then I will not include it. 
I'll look into it. Right now I'm focusing on my noir jazzy-industrial theme music for the Map Jam 8 repack, but as soon as I'm done with it I'll try to find some answers. 
I just made a quick verification in Gotshun's new map and it would appear that these overbrights are caused by whacked out RGB values. Run the map in DP with RTworld on (you might need to adjust the lightmaps setting) and type r_editlights 1 in the console. You'll be able to see each light entity. You can select one by pointing the crosshair towards it and read its info in the upper right corner of the screen. Check normal-looking lights, they have relatively low color values like 1.54 1.35 1.19, for example. But the overbright ones are ramped up to 2 or 3 digits before the decimal point. 
That may explain why my retrojam did not have too much issue with RTlights considering I did not use colored lights at all.

I'll definitely make an attempt to compensate but no promises ;)

Thanks for looking. 
Another Overbright Scenario 
I was playing Gotshun's (again!) "lost" levels (the secret level of episode 1, to be specific) when I encountered another cause for overbrights: several spotlights concentrated in a small corridor with normal RGB values but a high radius (350).

Thank YOU for willing to make your maps playable with RT lighting. 
Is there a specific light setting that causes overbrights?

Overbrights are not a bug that is "caused" by any setting. It is a feature of the original WinQuake that was restored in FitzQuake. 
Yes, but we're talking about extreme overbrights here, that drown the surfaces in light to the point of annihilating details and even colors of the textures. I'm on my phone right now so I can't post a screenshot to show you what I mean. 
The only way maps will look good when run under RTLights is if mappers restrict themselves to the subset of light features understood by both the classic light.exe and RTLights, and test maps with both baked lighting and RTLights.

If I understand right, Darkplaces parses the light entities out of the bsp, ignores the lightmap baked by light.exe entirely, and then renders the lights at runtime, so you can get sharp, high resolution shadows (and shadows from moving objects) 
And it allows for overbright areas. 
if someone provides an foo.rtlights file to override the mapper's lights then the mapper is free to ignore rtlights in their map. they can then provide that extra file if they care (which of course is extra work for an engine other than their beloved quakespasm, using tools that are poorly integrated and rather clunky).
and if they don't then yes, people who insist on using rtlights will get shitty lighting.
no bouncy light so it'll have dark corners. no ambient occlusion. etc. it'll probably look terrible. on the plus side, the parts that are still lit will look a little bumpier. because that's what matters, right?... *cough*
(rtlightless-bumps is what the .lux files thing was meant to be a solution for, though for DP they have to be renamed to .dlit or something, with these there shouldn't be quite the same 'need' for rtlights)

overbrights are a specific term around here that describes how the lightmap stores up to a logical cap of 2 rather than 1. what you're trying to describe would be better referred to as over-saturation.

realtime lighting has no such cap, which means it is MUCH easier to oversaturate thanks to each light's contribution being additive.
this can happen from either scaling a single light's colour multipliers up, or just placing a hundred lights in a smallish area, which happens a lot if a mapper wants to avoid dark corners.
Ultimately if a map doesn't have lights placed with consideration for rtlights then its just going to look bad, and you're probably better off without... its just a shame that its such a pain to reconfigure that stuff on a per-map basis. Sadly the dice have already been rolled in that regard. 
Ah thanks for explaining it so well Spike. I knew the actual overbright was not the correct term but couldn't think of anything else to call it. Over-saturation is definitely what we are discussing here.

It basically looks like how I thought it would go...probably not going to happen from me. :) 
Help For Mapping In General? 
I have been wondering, is there any tutorials or guides how to make 3d geometry, topology, architecture in Quake.. that works also in Darkplaces. Is there some principles or important facts about making rooms and such I have to keep in mind?

Does every vertex point needs to be connected to an another vertex point or what is causing these weird "I didn't know there was a brush and simple ignores drawing them". Time to time it works flawlessly and I don't experience any rendering issues, but sometimes it is something I can't even solve, even if I remake the whole area. I try to look everything in a vertex mode and spot every red triangles and try to do something to fix those spots.. but what am I exactly looking for. What is the actual core of my problems, that is something I would like to know.

In sake of not spending too much time fixing things afterwards, I want make maps that works right away. Simple saying don't do complex geometry doesn't mean anything, unless it is explained what is complex and what is not but still looks complex. Since people seems to make "complex looking" geometry, but that is not called complex? Is anyone else having problems with Darkplaces in general, so is the problem in our maps only or just in Darkplaces. 
Show Pictures Of What You're Doing And What's Not Working. 
What you're describing sound like something that shouldn't be happening at all. 
Will This Help? 
Same thing happened in my jam 8, and I'm sure I made it really poorly or something. I thought this one was much cleaner when it comes to placing brushes etc. But Still there was moments when I saw some faces disappearing, when looking from different angle or staying in different position.

This time I didn't got any portal errors, but I'm still having these weird issues. 
Darkplaces Lightmap Bug 
What you are experiencing is the Darkplaces lightmap scaling bug that occurs when any one textured surface in your map has a scale other than 1.00 in either x or y. Darkplaces goofs up the lightmap in this case.

See here:

Post number 466 is where it starts then ericw responds with a download.

This bug however should be fixed in ericw's tools after version 0.15.5. 
Full Vis? -Level4 -fast 
Does it normally take very long time to calculate "full vis"? I use -Level4 and no -fast.. should should I use them both?

Yes, I'm using ericW tools* 
If VIS takes extremely long, it means you have some leaks or weird geometry. 
Faces disappearing still sounds like the r_useportalculling 1 bug. Any DP user feel like reporting that? 
If map is boxed with skyboxes, can there really be leaks at all? I understand if it is not, then it is possible that one corner might not be connected correctly.. using developer 1 in console doesn't give me any errors about leaks.. is there different commands to find those if there is any? 
Bsp2map / WinBSPC 
None of them are working for what I want to decompile...

Igot nothing but an error message claiming it has a problem and that Windows will find a solution.. and that the program has to stop... my ass...

Anyone already tried such tool ? Any idea of what could be the cause ? Note that I tested that with simple maps, and it didn't fail, so it may come from the map I'd like to decompile... :( 
Quake is happiest with rooms and corridors. If you have large open areas vis can take a while. 
I'm bizzy right now with an old map fron the Startrek Quake mod I recompiled it with winqbsp.
I end up with a load of useless poly's, but I can make a decent map of it by extruding the usefull ones.

I use winqbsp a lot for maps, it needs a bit tweaking to work well, but mostly lead to an effective result.

@JPL: - What goes wrong when you use winqbsp?
You can lead the map to convert, extract and script. Using convert brings up a map file, or breaks when the map has to complex geometrie.
I hardly had any case that it didn't work, only when tha author had scrambled the file.

Case is I still work with winXp. 
What Rick said.
...and maybe don't do a box around the map. It will VIS all geometry inside, extremely increasing VIS time. Just place brushes like you'll do with normal sky. Skybox should work just fine. 
Do Not Just Box Your Maps. 
Thats horribly wrong, bad practice and lazy too. 
Ahem! Never said I would let it be boxed forever* I was more interested of these weird not drawing faces etc. I started layouting from the scratch, since I think it has something to do with how I made the castle's main hall area. BTW mfx how is your super professional non-lazy map project coming along. 
Box Along 
i dont care about you. 
It was sarcasm, and you don't need to like me. 
Unless it's a coagula map then boxing it up is fine, but yes. Ahh many a day spent plugging up leaks to be saved by the box only to lose many more days waiting for compile time. Good times. 
Y'all need to put some elbow grease into it. Don't build leaky shit and consider having the patience to fix it if you do. Maybe I'm just not architecturally adventurous enough, but I rarely get leaks in what I build because I pay attention as I go. And when I finish working on an area, I seal up the loose ends and find all the little nooks and crannies and plug them up.
Much, much better than waiting 'till the whole map's done. And not that hard to do! 
Thanks Spike for the detailed explanation and the vocabulary correction. 
The thing is simple. I start playtesting right away. I am precise when it comes to finishing up areas, like you all what you would expext, sometimes I seal them right away and sometimes not, because I focus on gameplay and mood. Since I don't know what works and what not if I don't test it first.

If you are familiar with Unity/Unreal level design, you most likely do the same practice and it is the right way to it. So you ask why skyboxes? I don't seem to need them anymore it seems, but back then some older versions of those engines didn't liked to draw void and made testing out barebone layouts frustrating to look at plus it gave a lot of errors.

Now that I am more familiar with mapping, I can plan ahead a lot more, but I am not genious if you think I can create something just purely thinking about it and that works right away with testing. So sorry if I triggered mfx this time, but I will not change the way I test out things, since it is faster and wiser in the end. Only thing is, I need to be even more precise. 
Quake Texture Tool Works Great! 
This tool will batch-convert any PNG files in the current working dir to the Quake color palette and create a WAD2 file containing all converted textures. 
For some reasons I lost the source file of one of my map, hence I'd like to recover the map file by decompiling the bsp file.

I tried WinBspC 1.4, and it failed. It is working with some other map, but no with the one I am trying to recover.

So even though I am on Win7, I set executable properties to execute the file as in winXP (one of the possible options in the properties of any executable file), so that is not the problem.

I am just wondering whether the bsp file has to much complex geometry for the tool, and in this case what are the options to recover.
Is there any other available tool with better capabilities, etc.. ? 
Try and older version maybe. :shrug:

V1.2 is on Quaddicted.

Open up WinBSPC and go to Help > Help.

Read through the Help section. Namely Section 1. I believe No CSG would help if the issue is complex geometry. 
also, what error are you getting when you decompile?

I just tried to decompile ad_swampy and got an error for the map being in BSP29 mode. 
Me Too 
Got this message also.. tool is expecting a bsp v30, while the map is v29....

Need to retry in anyway. 
is there a way to find leaks in hte map? or do i just have to manually find them? 
In TrenchBroom 
When a leak is encountered from a compile, you can go to File > Load Point file and select your map.

Here a line will display and if you follow that line it should lead you to the leak. Of course a leak can happen for other reasons. 
First thing you want to do is to load point file. You can do this in editor or in game. It will show you where the leak come from. 
Thanks Bloughsburgh! i would have never found that leak on my own. 
Finally some good answers* 
Hey, Can i compile 2 maps at the same time?

Im compiling my main practice project at the moment and it will take me another 3 hours to compile.(i've been compiling for 4 hours now) 
Send the bsp to me, I can easily decompile it in seconds,
if the map is a clear bsp.

Use winbspc12 on winXP! 
The huge one? 
ups sorry 
Thanks, but it is not needed anymore: I found by luck an old CD-ROM archive on which I put the complete QuArK project of the map I have been trying to decompile... :) 
Thanks to someone how send me this link first time :
(btw one of the hardest things to google) 
Last evening i tried to compile my map and woke up this morning and it had compiled the map. it took 10 hours. I opened the map and at one point there seemed to be an invisible line that would push me into the void letting me see the whole map from a distance. Why did this happen? 
What tools are you using to compile?

It really shouldnt be taking hours to compile. 
ericw's compiler 
Do you have a very large open area of your map? Is the map entirely boxed in by a large cube brush?

Another thing to try is to select detail brushes (Like decorative columns, wall detailing, decorations in general) and make them into func_detail brushes.

This might help compiler time as well as 10 hours is very abnormal for what I presume to be a normal sized map. 
i have a huge outdoor area, i dont box my map and i do have some detail.

what about the void bug? 
It really shouldnt be taking hours to compile.
If his computer is antediluvian, it might. What system are you working on, Naite? 
I am not sure about your issue with the void but that outdoor area may be the cause or at least a large factor of your compile times. Try to find more non-essential brushes to make into func_detail brushes. Depending on how huge, you may have to consider closing in that outdoor section or deal with the large compile. 
I have a 2013 imac 2.9 ghz with 8gb ram.
Os is Windows 8.

i have to make my outdoor area smaller. :/
its too bad that big areas affect the compiling time so dramatically. 
Func Details? 
Since I'm bad at using words when asking something: 
Are you using -level 4 for your VIS? You could try just a normal VIS just to see.

You could also share your .map file for others to analyze and see what could be done.

That's entirely up to you though! 
Or if you can cope with long compiling times, you might want to consider going with it: it's not often that we can enjoy large outdoors in Quake. I sure would like to see more of these. 

Yes that is a good example of using func_details.

Another way to see is if you select all of your func_details and hide your map still able to fully VIS? 
It's just ignored by VIS, but other than that it behaves as a normal brush, so collision etc. works the same.
Important thing is to not use them as main walls closing your map - VIS will get rekt this way. 
Thank You* Another Question About Func_Illusionary 
To be honest this would be interesting way to show secrets.. but I guess it is not intended or have something to do with how engine draws them? I'm using Quakespasm in this case. 
well that's uh.... not an intended feature. 
I remember when GL Quake was new, if you played a map that hadn't been vised specifically with transparent water, you would see a similar effect. Looking through water, doors and other entities were visible when they shouldn't be. 
Hmm.. it should be fully vised, no leaks etc. I use -level4. 
Is Your QuakeSpasm Up-to-date? 
If it is 0.92.1 then it is up to date.

I tried to run it on Darkplaces too, and it worked just fine. In Quakespasm and Mark V (tested so far), I had these drawing issues. 
yes i use test level 4. How can i change the level? how will it affect the compile? i have not used detail entitys since im still a beginner. thanks for that tip!

im taking a small break from my main project because its getting too large and there are so many areas im not happy with. there will still be large outdoor areas but i will make them smaller. 


easiest way, less calculate time.


Calculate extra samples (2x2) and average the results for smoother shadows.


Calculate even more samples (4x4) and average the results for smoother shadows. 
I ment vis.exe
Quick question, i downloaded some skyboxes and renamed them from .pk3 to .tga

i placed the skybos in id1/gfx/env

in trenchbroom i gave world entity "sky" "sky-dragonheart_"

and nothing happened. What went wrong? 
Verify the name of the actual skybox files. Is it "sky-dragonheart_" or just "dragonheart_" 
I think there should be the 6 cube sides for the skybox files.

Like sky-dragonheartup_

Can you open the pak and see if those files are contained? 
i dont know how to extract pk3.
can you send me a skybox file that i can test? 
i downloaded the skyboxes from quaddicted

i think they should be 6 sided 
is there a texture that i have to give to a brush so i can see the skybox? like sky4 
#17683 - You should be able to open it with any zip extractor, if I remember correctly;

#17684 - Due to the inordinate amount of work to compose 49 separate downloads, these skyboxes are currently only available in a single download as The Kothic Skybox Compilation
===> The Kothic Skybox Compilation

#17685 - you have to use sky texture; 
That's probably caused by a lack of sorting by distance for entities with transparency.

FitzQuake 0.85 draws entities sequentially. DarkPlaces likely sorts everything by distance.

I might rewire transparent entities to draw by distance in Mark V, but I've more focused on a mirrors on func_illusionary request for pulsar ..

And tuning some optional effects video and updating the Mac build. 
The only important VIS options are -fast for a quick and inaccurate test compile, and -level 4 for a slow(er) and accurate final compile. 
you have to use sky texture;

What is a sky texture? i used both sk1 and sky4 and both of them wont display the skybox 
i got it to work now! :)
I copied a skybox from my Arcane dimensions folder and placed in my id1/gf/env folder and it doesnt matter what sky texture i use! im happy with the result now :)))) 
Can Someone Explain Sun A Little! 
I created a square room, I placed a pillar directly in the center, I set sunlight mangle to 270 -45 0

This way the sun in relation to my Top view in JACK is at the top(centered). I placed the player start in relation to the Top view at the bottom(centered).

Now when I load the map the pillar casts a shadow directly towards me, correct. Looking right, the wall has a shadow at a 45 degree angle down, correct.

But looking left the wall is completely dark. It doesn't match the right side wall which I thought it would.

What is going on?

If there is a sunlight basics link(besides ericw's descriptions) please post it, thanks. 
Reading This...

It states "�_sun_mangle� - This has the same format as �mangle� on spot lights, �Direction, Pitch, x�, which way the sun is shining. (Not the position the sun is in)"

So my question is, how do I know where the position of the sun is? 
The sun doesn't have a position like a regular light entity, it's a "distant light source" so wherever you are in the map, the direction vector to the sun is the same.

So what happens is from each lightmap sample in the map, the tool traces a line in the direction to the sun, and checks if it hits a sky face.

With the "yaw" component of mangle at 270 I would expect 3 walls to be lit up.. but with light coming in perpendicular to two of the walls, the value of "anglescale" will determine whether they receive any light, if "anglescale" is 1, those walls perpendicular to the sunlight direction will be dark.

There's also the possiblity of a bug of course. mind posting a screenshot?

And yes, the "back" wall I clipped thru is fully lit as well.

Oddly, the pillar gets lit the same way. Sorry it's not in the image.

Thanks for the reply 
The Pillar 
Argh, that does look like a bug.. I'll look into it 
Using "2016-11-20 TyrUtils-ericw 0.15.9 Release" 
I forgot to mention that. 
Sorry This Must Be Asked Multiple Times 
I have tried to google and read guides, but couldn't figure out or make work some lighting techniques: 
1. Classic light tools allowed regular light entities to shine through world sky faces, but my tool doesn't. One option: make the "Q" a func_illusionary with "_shadow" "1" and texture it with the "skip" texture. Omit the sky brush in the middle of your diagram.

2. yeah, this is something I just added in the latest version of my light tool 0.15.9. Just set "_shadow" "1" and "alpha" "0.5" on the func_illusionary window entity, for example.. tweak the alpha as needed.

3. spotlight or normal light will both work. A spotlight will only shine in the direction of the bars, whereas a regular light will iluminate behind / to the sides of the light entity as well. You'll want to make sure the light is bright enough, could try "delay" "2", and "light" "500" or "1000". 
Thank You For Your Quick Answers* 
This might be stupid question, but is it possible to make brushes receive less brightness or less light. And in case 3) still having strong shadows but the light between bars is mild. 
is it possible to make brushes receive less brightness or less light?

Yes, make the brushes a func_wall and give it the _lightignore 1 key.
Add minlight to have low light on those brushes. 
Thank You~ 
Depending on what you want.. you might want to just reduce the "wait" key (default=1). So 0.5 = the light reaches twice as far, 0.25 = reaches 4x as far, etc. This way you can have a light that is only medium brightness, but it still reaches far enough to cast long shadows 
Just Testing* 
This Link 
yeah, you might be able to use project textures to get a ground effect for those stained glass windows. 
Who Has A Long Memory? 
I remember using a texture tool ages ago that had a "remove fullbrights" function. It would map those colours to their closest non-fullbright colour.

Does anybody know what tool this is? 
Texmex Misses A Color (a Red?), IIRC. 
You could always open the palette in your editor of choice (photoshop, gimp) and remove the fullbrights and palettize the image that way. 
You Know What... 
I feel like an idiot, I looked through texmex last night and couldn't find it.

of course it was in the adjust brightness dialogue. 
Light Color Selector In JACK, Missing W/ad_quake.fgd 
Anyone know why that happens when I switch to the AD .fgd?

Happened with 1.42 and stayed with 1.5

If I switch back to ericw's .fgd it magically comes back. I looked thruogh both files to see if there was something I needed to add/remove but I didn't see what needs to be done. 
@Shamblernaut #17707 
Thanks, I forgot how it was called.. so what I'm looking for is "project textures"? 
On Your Light Entity 
_project_texture texturename

I know the quoth fgd has this property. You might be able to copy the relevant lines from there into the the ad / vanilla / other fgds that you want. 
Texture Path Or Just Texture Name? 
I tried but couldn't get it project window01_3 texture, just normal light. I added _project_texture to my light entity that has target, it is spotlight. Also tried it for not spotlight, but didn't do what it should do. 
I tried delay 0 and 2, value 300 - 600 
_project_texture will only work if the texture is also used in the map somewhere. It takes a name like "window01_3".

Alternatively, try what I suggested in #17699 - set _shadow 1 and _alpha < 1 on the window with a light source behind it. Don't expect too much though, you'll just get a colored blur since quake's lightmap resolution is low. 
Yes, I Tried Exactly That 
And there seems to be little changes in light map. Wasn't sure about the result, thanks for your help. 
yeah, lightmap resolutions mean that any sort of projections will just result in a blur unless you can scale up the projected image at least 8-fold or so, which means it only really looks okay if the surface accepting the light is a long way away from the source. projections through skylights or something would work, but windows right next to the floor much less so.

if you're thinking of that screenshot I took ages ago now then that was using a map-wide lightmap scale of 4:1 (instead of 16:1).

if only lit2 was a real thing that was supported by more than one engine...
/me glares at qss omitting it... 
Non-Linear Level Design In Quake? 
I have struggling a lot while doing non-linear layouts, since I don't seem to figure out right way to do it without confusing the player. How enemy placement is often made in non-linear maps, what are the best examples of good use of non-linear nature?

Does non-linear means you have alternative path to the same main main goals, or even side missions?, or entirely different paths to end? Can map be non-linear because of secrets or shortcuts that opens connections between areas, or is that kind a like "hidden" non-linearity that people don't see as an non-linear level design.

In socks maps if I remember correctly, he used multiple silver key paths, how did he managed with the enemy placement/spawning, is it possible to get 100% kills if choosing the one path over the other. Since I thought Quake players cares about completing the map 100%, that must be hard to make work in non-linear maps? 
Metal Monstrosity (or arcane) is a good example. If you choose to not look around and explore all of the various ledges, you can make out a pretty clear virtual path up the stairs to the gold key. Without exploring all of the nooks and optional sections however, you weaken yourself for the final battle. Player's choice.

Swampy has the main goal to get to the exit, but you can also hunt for secret tomes. Once you reach the exit, the entire level is up to you to freely explore. Even when the exit is reachable there could still be fights, rooms, weapons to collect. The Blood and Purple key doors are a good example of non-essential secrets. I love the ability to have custom keys in AD!

Interconnection also helps because one can approach a room from another angle...and from that angle reach a secret place that they saw from an opposing place. Just look at your current map and say to yourself: "What would you like to see in the map?" 
@Bloughsburgh, Thanks~ 
Custom keys?

Do they even have own unique models?
You mentioned "The Blood and Purple key", are those actually red and purple colored?

"Interconnection also helps because one can approach a room from another angle"

That also might create the situation, where you face enemies that are way too hard to beat with the current ammo/weapon situation. I'm planning having a couple secrets where you can get "Early Access Weapons", so in that sense maybe even having "Secret Paths for Early Access Weapons". At least that sounds nice on a paper.

And if you choose not to find secrets, you will use the default path and get weapons much later. But should there be separate path that isn't secret.. maybe that might be hard to create, if you face the same areas from the different directions you have to make fights more flexible closer to that main route. 
Yep, there are numerous skins for different key colors and keycards. You can also make models be keys and have doors acknowledge them as such. Inspect ad_swampy, ad_crucial or ad_magna on their uses. (Although be sure to play through first!)

Your layout plan sounds right to me...that's how a lot of people do it with early access to weapons and such. The dilemma you posed is just another map design challenge! I'm still learning myself, I am doing the: "Main route is clear but you deviate from the path multiple times for goodies/secrets. 
Examine The Following 
The Ivory Tower
One Thousand Cuts
Slave to a Machine
Stark Monstrosity
Well of Wishes
I Don't Mind If Your Hands Are Cold (jam1_skacky)

And, of course:

The Necropolis
Gloom Keep
The Ogre Citadel
The Palace of Hate 
@otp, Thanks* 
Hi guys, after a weeklong break from making my map im back at it again.

I feel like there are not that many textures in the vanilla quake. How do I add new textures in trenchbroom? what is the best resource to find new textures? What are the best regarded texturepacks out there. Daz talks about IK white and IK blue in his videos, where can i find those?
and last but not least how do i create my own textures? 
Lots of textures are at:

Check out the knave texture set, as well.

Download Wally to help you make textures. Download TexMex to extract textures from .bsp files. Both tools do much more than just that, so look into the help sections and such as well. 
How To Add 
In TB2:

Face Tab, click show in the Texture Collections section at the bottom.

Click the + icon and select your chosen wad file(s)

In TB:

It's like Edit > Map Properties > and then select your wad(s).

Which one do you use? 
i use tb2 
Is there a specific folder i have to place the textures into? 
It worked! thanks Mukor and Bloughsburgh 
So ive been doing alot of work on my maps, and im setting func_detail to details in the world, such as arcs and tiles that are broken etc. and it really brings down the vising time. Still I dont actually know what func_detail is.
What is it and when should it be used? 
Detailled Func 
The func_detail entity is excluded from the compiler portalization phase and then becomes structural with collision afterwards. (@Sock)

It is simillar to func_wall, except the viscompiler shut out all func_detail entities you made. It should never be used for outside walls or walls that touch the void.

It could be possible to make a level with only hard core walls and full of func_detail ents.

Func_walls are entities and come with several issues. like OTP said, no shadows. Also, stock engines have limitations on edicts and models present in a bsp, so using lots of them (or in a larger map) can lead to needing to perform balancing acts if you want to stay under those limits.</> Scampie.

Func_details are not actually entities, despite being used like them in an editor. They are world geometry, and cut the world geometry as normal, but are not considered while calculating the PVS. 
Silly Question But I Have My Reasons 
Is there any way I could make the Golem in Arcane Dimensions NOT fire projectiles when attacking the player?

Restrict him to melee attacks only? 
Func_detail Madfox 
Thanks for the reply madfox! :) 
Func_detail are not like func_wall. Func_detail can be used to seal the map. They are normal walls for all intents and purposes except compile time. 
_detail Is Structural? I.e. Can Be Used To Seal? 
are you sure? 
func_detail & void?

I started a map in Valve texture mode. It was just meant to be a little test. Now its...huge and I wanna convert it to this possible?

Even if its hacky as hell and I need to realign textures. 
Scratch the last question...

anyone have any clue why when i do the "sky" cvar in quakespasm it says my sky is "moonrise_" but it doesnt match the one in my ad/gfx/env: 
your should specify the sky name in worldspawn 
It's the same skybox but obscured by fog. 
OTP had it. Not sure why that didnt occur to me, thanks! 
Train Sound At Long Distances 
I have a very long train that acts sort of like a battering ram trap in my current project. Once triggered it travels from one end of a long hall to the other. The goal is for the player to ride atop of the trap. To do this the player must backtrack through a portion of the hall to get aboard. It seems as though the sound of the train emanates from the "front" of the brush. When that portion of the train is down the hall the train is basically silent to the player. Is there I sound setting that will allow the sound of the train to travel farther? It's not the end of the world but as the player is backtracking this giant battering ram is silent. 
Sound cutoff is hardcoded into the engine.

Typically at a distance of 1000. DarkPlaces probably uses 1500.

If you change that number from 1000, some of the mappers get irritated because then you can hear thing you shouldn't be able to hear in some of their maps. 
Thx Baker 
I wonder then if I could put another train underneath or nearby out of view that generates the same sound. I'll have to experiment. 
Dummy trains should work so long as they are hidden inside a func_wall or a hollowed out wall. Are you using a particular mod? Some have support for triggered sounds or loops like hipnotic, AD, rogue, or Quoth to name a few that support it. 
Maybe you could try to put several train sounds, evenly distributed along the length of your train. It would avoid extra brushwork and would sound more realistic. 
Qmaster no mods this time around, sadly I'm in vanilla Quake.

Mugwump - not sure I can do that as the battering ram is triggered by a button. I don't think you can trigger sounds on and off in vanilla Quake. (?) 
Noymthing sad about that. I think that you could have multiple trains, though might be more trouble than its worth since they don't tend to sync well and need more paths. 
Invisible Brushes 
how do I create invisible brushes that can be walked on? Im making some detailing on the ground and the terrain becomes dificult to walk on, so I want to create an invisible ramp so moving would be smoother.
Also I have waterfalls but the waterfall texture isnt liquid so I cant walk threw it, how do I make it so that its liquid or i can walk threw it? 
Apply the "Clip" texture to a brush to make it invisible but has collision.

For waterfalls, make them func_illusionary 
thanks once again Bloughsburgh! :) 
What Is Error Bsp->nummodels Is 0! 
what models is it talking about? I'm just trying to test my map with only neccessary things like walls, ceilings etc. I added armor and one flame there, but I still get this error message, it must mean something else then? 
The first model in a .bsp is the world, subsequent ones are func_ entities like doors, etc.
So the error means there is no world.. it's coming from my light tool right? I don't know but either you have no brushes in the map, or it's a tool bug. 
Do you have an info_player_start? 
Noob Question XD 
Hey, im almost at the end of my map, how do i add an exit? 
dude, i did that and nothing happened! 
You need to point a map with the "map" key, such as start if you want your level exit to send you to start.bsp. 
ok, im now compiling, it will take me 10 minutes to compile, you wanna try it? im gonna tweak some stuff, like adding more monsters and maybe one more arena fight and clipping brushes, and illusionary brushes... but its at a point where its actually playable. 
you wanna try it?

Take a screenshot and upload both the screenshot and the bsp to quaketastic, and post the links in the Screenshots & Betas thread (just underneath the Mapping Help thread): if you look at the top of that thread you'll see:

This is the place to post screenshots of your upcoming masterpiece and get criticism, or just have people implore you to finish it. You should also use this thread to post beta versions of your maps.

Need a place to host your screenshots? Upload them here:
Username: quaketastic
Password: ZigguratVertigoBlewTronynsSocksOff

Then some people are sure to try it. :) 
Shadows Of Our Forgotten Ancestors 
Hi everyone! So im at a point where im ready to take feedback from the community. This is my first map for quake.

My background on level design is minimal, I did 4 levels for Doom 2 and decided the engine was too primitive for what i was aiming for. Once i saw Arcane dimensions i started to watch Custom Gamer on youtube and got insired by all the cool levels. And here I am now.

You will need to place an arcane dimensions skybox into your
ID1/GFX/env folder:


there are custom textures i have used on this map and i hope everything works as it should!


P.S. this is not the final release. 
Total Noobie 
shit sry, I will post it there now. the message came up while i was writing my message. :/ 
@ericw, @dumptruck_ds 
Though I Copied Everything And Made New Map, Then Compiling Worked. 
Map is nice. Visually pleasant, a little bit oldschool vibe, which is not bad of course. I played on nightmare, idk if you have set skill levels.

Problem is it's empty at the beginning. Just running in empty rooms with few enemies. After blue key it's getting much better.

You should mix more enemies though, to get better diversity. Now it's mostly knights and scrags + few ogres. Ambushes are fun, but as I said, mix enemies. Now for example you have ambush of scrags only :D

Pickups need more balance too. I prefer more pickups and more enemies. Now you have areas with small amount of health and areas where you have lots of health. Maybe place some mega health in this empty rooms?

You have a small "leak" near the bolt gun. Just visual bug.
Secret with the red armor can kill you. It has trigger_hurt (or other something) standing out from the ground at the end of the "room".

Quad was a nice touch, but give me more diverse ambushes! Think how enemies can benefit from each other, to make players life harder.

Good Job! 
I Get This Error: 
QUAKE ERROR: Mod_LoadBrushModel: maps/soofa.bsp has wrong version number (1143028768 should be 29)

when trying to load your map. 
I started having again this Corrupt .BSP bsp-<nummodel is zero. I didn't do anything to my map, just placing normal brushes there and there and everything is sealed. I'm using Trenchbroom 2, I started using layers in order to be more efficient with my layouts when getting further.

Here is file, if someone finds something odd about it? 
Sorry about that, it's a qbsp bug (in my tools, at least) - maps where all brushes are func_group/detail cause qbsp to blow up.

Just move one brush from func_group to worldspawn and it should be fine. 
I added now one template brush to default layer, and it compiled fine. Thank you~ 
Thanks for the feedback.
I havent set any difficulty, there should be about 60+ enemies at the moment and 3 shambler. i Should probably add the SSG on top of the blue key door so to allow more action.

The castle area has alot less health because its should feel alot more dangerous than the start, and give the player a feeling that if you could only re-enter the start to get health. Im not sure if this just ends up feeling annoying for the player.

In the lighting gun area I now noticed the leak also, you can see the sky box XD and also the damagebrush at the red armour.

QUAKE ERROR: Mod_LoadBrushModel: maps/soofa.bsp has wrong version number (1143028768 should be 29)

What does this mean? how do i fix this? 
what bsp version are you compiling for? is trenchbroom set to hexen2, or a quake2 or a quake map

which compile tools are you using?

also, khreathor, what engine did you test it in? 

For your first map this is rather impressive. Your brushwork has a very distinct style...I got a mystical/medieval vibe from it. A great detail of filling out the background to make it seem like there is more there is a great thing to have and you do it well.

Lighting is decent enough, nothing overly bright but maybe some more shadow contrast would benefit the nighttime venture! I also like the textures you opted to use.

Gameplay is the weakest point here but that's to be expected as it is a doozy. Like Kreathor said, very vacant early on. Few encounters are fine at the start of the map for the player to get his surroundings but this goes on for a few stretches of rooms. Broken architecture is a great thing, but the broken up floor tiles feel awkward when walking around. Perhaps make them into func_illusionary or lower them by a few units. Additionally, be sure to make your waterfalls not solid brushes as it feels strange as well.

I love the vertically and small interconnection you are introducing and, on a first map that's impressive to attempt! I know on my first handful of maps I did not pay that any mind.

No music, but I am sure you haven't picked a track yet. Even if you don't use the music yourself, just pop a sound track into the worldspawn (2-11)

Another area to work on are the encounters themselves. Lots of times you open a door to a new room and there is a bathtub full of enemies waiting for you. Ambushes are done predictable after grabbing a key or hitting a switch...try to surprise the player. Maybe when you are walking under one of the bridges, a death knight leaps down from a higher level!

Hopefully this helps you fine tune the map. If this is your first offering than I am excited to see what you bring in the future!

I played the map with no issue on the latest QS. 
Its All Good 
the download was corrupted, re-downloaded and it worked fine. 
The Pros:

I like the encounters, perhaps a bit busy at times, and may need to ramp up the quantity of monsters a little slower (consider a timer), but for the most part really tight.

Your level geometry is excellent, it is easy to see that a lot of thought has gone into the layout of the map. I really like ledge-jumping and exploration, so the SSG secret was fun.

Thematically the map is really consistent throughout. I really like the ceilings in your buildings and the detail you've put into the crumbling floors, ceilings, windows, etc.

The Cons:

It's pretty hypocritical of me to criticise this considering a recent map of mine used it, but the sloping geometry in the hallways in the starting area isn't a great idea in such narrow hallways, already it is quite squishy, but those slopes restrict movement even more. This isn't a huge issue because there are no mobs there, but it's something to think about.

As others have mentioned, your brushwork interrupts the player at certain points, consider func_illusionary or some clip brushes to may the player experience smoother.

The texturing is quite good, although the one place I feel like it could use a change is the staircase in the first outdoor area you encounter. I'm not sure if the contrasty blue rock / red wood works too well.

Overall really good job man, well done. 
Demo For Naitelveni 
Skill 3 demo, played with QS.
Nice little map overall, especially for a first Quake map. I really dig the aesthetics, the tree/hedges and the ruined scenery. There's a few texture and brush issues (nothing major though) and encounters/monster placement could need a bit of work in places. See comments in my demo: 
This is nice.

I'm not of the opinion that every room of every map must necessarily be packed with opposition, so the beginning didn't bother me. A decent lead in.

The visuals are coherent and pleasant, they felt fresh. Maybe one texture error - a patch of green grass in a courtyard of dirt.

Didn't have any problems with gameplay or balance - the difficulty is about up my alley. 

I haven't really played the map (don't have much time at the moment); just wandered through it with cheats on to look at the brushwork & texturing, and it's really lovely! A little cramped, perhaps, but very, very nice for a first map, with a really distinctive visual style. Loved the tree!

Broken architecture is a great thing, but the broken up floor tiles feel awkward when walking around. Perhaps make them into func_illusionary or lower them by a few units.

...or cover the recessed parts with a clip brush.

[...] the staircase in the first outdoor area you encounter. I'm not sure if the contrasty blue rock / red wood works too well.

I like it and think it looks good. The texture alignment could be better, though -- specifically, I think the wood texture looks better when it does not follow the slope of the brush, but remains horizontal. Just my opinion, though!

There's some texture alignment weirdness in a few other spots in the map too, but I'm not sure whether that's important...

Are you making this for id1, or for a mod (Quoth/AD)?
If it's for id1, don't forget to include the skybox in your next/final version -- it really adds a lot to the map visually (I saw it when I loaded the map in AD, as I was curious whether some of the brushes were supposed to be breakable).

But again: really lovely work! Sorry for not giving more detailed feedback/no gameplay feedback at all. 
Penumbra Conundrum 
As far as Quake maps go, what value is best suited for which environment? Most maps I see use either 2 or 4.

Looking at ericw's example on his site shows that the shadow blends a bit more the higher you go...I think?

Finally I did a side by side comparison from my own map with 2 and then 4 and I am not entirely sure I see a difference! 
im siing trenchbroom 2 for mapping, for compiling im using EricW's compiler and for the quake client im using quakespasm. 
Thanks everyone for the feedback!

The starting area is still abit ugly, and im changing it as we speak, I added another ogre in the starting area and 2 super knights in the blue key yard.

At the moment of giving you guys this first test version of the map I didnt know about clipping brushes and illusionary. Now i have added it around the diffucult terrain to make the gameplay alot smoother.

I will run thru the map to see about the texture alignment. Thats the type of feedback that helps me to polish the mep! :)

im honored! :)
i will add clipping brushes, illusionary and double check for errors.

Thanks for the feedback!!
I know the hallway is tight, and i will make it wider and bigger. At first i made it small because i was afraid of long compiling times. As you may have read about my 10 hour compiling issue with my first map. XD
now that i know about func_detail im no longer afraid of bigger areas. Soofa took me 9-10 minutes to compile.

Bloughsburgh, thank you!
I will balance out the gameplay more!

Once im finished with my map can I get a youtube playthru!? That would be frikin awesome! 
How Do I Play Demos? 
Where do i place the demo file and what do i write into console when i have the client open? 
Type "playdemo [demoname]" in the console. You put the demofile in id1 or in the relevant mod folder. 
-Place the demo file in your id1 directory.

-playdemo xxx 
No need to repeat what the others have said. I liked the architecture in the green armor/silver key room, also your gateways with the larger part at the top. Torches planted on top of pillars and walls look weird, it would be better to just use a flame, possibly rising from a brasero/cauldron type of brush.
Combat isn't very challenging. It would probably be fine for skill 0 or 1 but I need more difficulty. You also should add a final combat in the exit room. 8 monsters never teleported in and stayed in their boxes outside of the map.

Be mindful of your triggers for secret count: it didn't activate when I first picked up the LG, only when I walked over a specific point in this area (same with the red armor secret). Usually, these triggers cover the entire width of secret rooms or are associated with the goodie.

Speaking of secrets, where is the third one? I couldn't find it, even when noclipping through the map - which, incidentally, oddly caused me a few instadeaths 
It's only a detail but you should make your water pipes deeper, or at least texture the deep end with a black texture instead of a wall texture. And check the orientation of the texture on ALL sides of your water brushes: the little bit at the top of the vertical brush moves laterally while it should go in the direction of the current. 
thanks Mugwump! I'll change the flame, you are right, on top of the pillar the torch looks wierd also on top of the wall. The third secret is near the LG. Where the wooden bridge is over the wall. youll have to do some advanced parcoure to get there.

Im working on a area that you are teleported from the gold key teleporter. first you get alot of pickups and then youll enter the final area.It will take me this weekend to finish this map. 
You got this. 
J.A.C.K + AD & Entity Boundary Box 
Anyone using J.A.C.K with AD mod? I've recently picked up this editor and it's great but I'm having some issues with placing entities. I don't know how well entities follow the grid in editors, but in Jack it feels especially wonky, am I missing something? For instance, candles placed 1-2 units above the floor still end up inside the floor brush.. help! :) 
Candles are to be placed 16 units above the ground. I think its mentioned in the readme or ad_quake.fgd.

Any other problematic entities? 
There Is A Known Boundary Box Bug In J.A.C.K 
But it is supposedly fixed in the latest steam release. Haven't tried it yet. 
Thanks Mukor 
I can't remember putting them 16 above in QuArk but it sure worked in J.A.C.K. Entities just look a little off the grid, is that normal? Hogre box is huge compared to hogremac, what was the bug in J.A.C.K? 
Bounding Box Size 
Bounding box size and handles match the model. Should instead match the fgd definition. 
Noob Vertex Question, Sorry 
Is it okay come compile time if I have vertices that are "off the grid" in the editor? Does that work?

I know editing such brushwork is a nightmare, I'm just asking if the map compiles/renders/displays fine in Quake. 
Warnings Typically Aren't Too Bad 
but sometimes you get things that will make the player drop through the floor or similar.

If you need to go way off grid for your geometry, make sure that it is on detail brushes or unimportant shit that the player won't interract with. 
Your indications for the last secret seem to match the RED ARMOR secret, which I've already mentioned, so I thought it was obvious I wasn't talking about this one. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. The two secrets I've found are the LG and RA. 
sry, i read your comments hastely. XP
The last then is near the goldkey door, if you make 180 dgree turn (at the gold door) you'll see the super shotgun.
then you have to manuver your self carefully to the edge of a rock and jump to the weapon, if you mess it up you'll drop into the void and die. 
Shadows Of Our Forgotten Ancestors 
Hi guys,
I took all the feedback, and made changes to the gameplay, also fixed floors with clipping brushes, and water with illusionary, checked for texture alignment(as well as i can), and changed the torches into flames in some areas where i thought it was necesary.

I watched Skaky's demo and it had some really solid feedback, and fixed the things he pointed out. (couldnt fix the first hallway texture alignment, i even tried rebuilding parts of it but couldnt make it work)

Now im giving you guys another version of soofa for nitpicking. Demos are excelent ways to point out mistakes in the map. If possible send me a demo where you pointout mistakes and fixes. This will be the last test version, after this ill fix everything you guys will point out and then I'll publish the map.

P.s. If i missed some fixes in the first round, I'm sorry. There was alot of feedback and i didnt write them down, but this time ill try be more precise. :) 
Some feedback:

1) Still loving this map, and excited to see it developing further.

2) I've played the previous version (properly) in the mean time and watched Skacky's demo, which has excellent advice. But maybe tone things down a bit for skills 0 and 1, once you implement skill settings. The map seems calibrated for skills 2/3 or for really skilled players at the moment. I usually play on skill 1, and at the moment I find this a little too hard/frustrating.

3) Texturing/texture alignment: are you talking about the hallway with the grey bricks on sloped surfaces, where Skacky suggested rotating the texture? It looks a LOT better now, but you could improve things further by decreasing the scale of the texture on the sloped parts slightly, until it more or less matches up with the rest. The angle looks right, though.

I still think the wooden texture on the staircase leading up to the SK door should be completely horizontal all over (as opposed to having one sloped piece, as it does at the moment) -- but maybe others would disagree...

4) Brushwork: I can't tell if you've changed this at all, but as I think others have pointed out too, the brushes on the edges of the map are cut off a little abruptly. It would look better/more convincing if you moved your sky brushes a bit further out and made your rock and wall brushes around the edges of the map a bit thicker/rounded/three-dimensional.

5) The new area towards the beginning is a nice addition, but it feels a little pointless at the moment, as there is nothing really there. Perhaps add a secret to this area?

6) Speaking of which, I feel that the cells in the little underwater alcove should count as a secret. Or if that's too obvious, maybe hide a secret door behind the cells.

7) I don't know if it's still incomplete, but I couldn't figure out how to complete the final arena and get the bars in front of the exit to lower. I couldn't trigger the door hiding the Shambler either.

8) The two windows that are on floor level in the final area look a bit weird too, as it looks as if you should be able to jump out, but then you're blocked by a skybrush. If you can't jump out, it shouldn't look as if you can -- so I'd say either make it possible to jump out (with a pain trigger/void if you're feeling sadistic or a teleporter back if you're not) or cover the window with bars or something. 
Naitelveni: Can I Post A Few Screenshots Of Your Map Here? 
I've taken a few screenshots to illustrate some of what I wrote above. I feel weird about uploading screenshots of someone else's WIP onto imgur, so I wanted to ask you first if that would be ok. 
Sure, go ahead. 
i don't know if it's only me, but i get a 'heretic' vibe in the silver key area. or maybe heretic mixed with quake. i like the style.
i can jump and bypass those iron bars and i did just that the first time and it worked. it's not a hard jump. 
Naitelveni: Ok Then 
Texture alignment on stairs: Note the misaligned textures above, and the sloped/horizontal combination beneath. In both instances I'd suggest selecting both adjacent brushes together, and then entering a new texture angle/offset value. so that the two textures have the exact same value (I'm guessing "0" in both instances, but it's been months since I've touched an editor). That will make them correctly aligned.

Textures on sloped bricks: Note the areas marked in black. You can fix or at least decrease this misalignment by changing the scale and offset of the texture on the sloped surface, until it matches up with the surface next to it. If you're using TB and using the arrow keys, I think you might need to set your grid size to 1 or 2 if you want to able to make fine adjustments -- but as I said, it's been a while, so I might be wrong here.

Map edges/rocks & bricks: This is what I meant by saying it'd look better if you pushed your sky brushes outwards a little and made your rocks/bricks on the edges of the map a bit thicker/fuller/more 3D.
Here are two more examples of where the rocks should be thicker.
Same thing here, only horizontal: those "roof" rocks would look better if they were a little thicker (and your sky brush higher).

Here you've done it right. 
In that one picture it's foliage, not rocks. But you know what I mean. :) 
Cool jump! maybe someone will make a speedrun out it! There is a skip i left in the map on purpose at the last area, maybe someone will find it! If not, its ok.

I'll fix those stairs, sloped bricks are a pain, maybe the scaling will be ok.
Map edges, skaky had the same comment, so ill fix that also. I think ill add a void behind the brickwall so you can fall off.
"two" is actually supposed to be like that. Its a hedge wall.
the SK-Area rocks I will still fix. Thanks for your help!

Shamblernaut, watched your demo, i agree with the comments! I will add a void in the last area! good texture stuff. YOu got the secrets "correctly" ;)
the shootable buttons, ill change the texture! Thanks for the comments!

Tomorrow I'll publish my map and start working on a new one. 
Re #17807 
sloped bricks are a pain, maybe the scaling will be ok.

Don't forget to play with "offset" too -- that'll let you move the texture up and down and side to side, until it lines up.

Did you use standard Quake format or Valve format for your map? Because using Valve format can make things a lot easier with sloped surfaces ... so it might be something to keep in mind for future projects (I don't think it's currently possible to convert an existing map from standard to Valve. But I'm hoping someone will make a tool to do just that, as I have a few maps I'd love to convert). 
i used the standard quake format in trenchbroom 3 
Mapping For Arcane Dimensions 
Hey, I'm going to do the last fixes to SOOFA, but my fingers are already itching to create a new map. I already have vague concept. I want to use AD 1.5 for this map How do i set Trenchbroom for AD? 
Entity Tab
-Click Show at the bottom
-Browse for More under the External section
-Select the ad_quake.fgd file that's in your ad directory. 
and in map tab
- click at the bottom 'Mods'
- enable ad (it will appear in Available column) 
Noob Question 
probably a stupid question, but is there a unselect button?? 
In TrenchBroom 2? Esc to unselect 
Leaks: Are these a big deal? should I be aiming to have no leaks in a level? can I just copy paste and rotate non-player area detail stuff and not worry too much? are leaks mostly a problem in places where the player can actually go? 
HexenMapper Re: Leaks 
Leaks are pretty bad. You don't want them ever. Your map must be sealed much like a water-tight container.

more here: 
Don't worry, there should be pointfile after compiling your map. When you open your map, typo "pointfile" to your console and after that "developer 1" (1 = on / 0 = off). Then you should see White lines bouncing somewhere in your map. Try locate area where that Line goes ovet your map's intented boundaries and try figure out how to avoid it no go through for example some corners, maybe light is too near some possible leak area etc. Others correct me if I am wrong, but that is how I can visualize it (don't know about technical terminology) 
Some (I know TB2 does, I don't have experience with any others) editors allow you to visualize map leaks in-editor, which is nice since you can fix it while looking at it, decreasing iteration time. Otherwise, what NewHouse said is fine.

With modern computers, speeds in Quake levels are rarely an issue. But not everyone has a modern computer, and some people enjoy being able to play Quake on their older PCs regardless of whether or not they have a "better" machine available, so it's important to avoid leaks or poor sealing.

I'm not sure if it's actually worse than just having a straight-up leak in your level or not, but one thing that people sometimes do to avoid having to seal leaks is to encase their entire map in a giant cube of skybox. This is a very bad idea; yes, you can run .vis on your map, but it will take much, much longer, and besides that, you're still not addressing the root issue, which could end up having significant effects regardless of whether or not your map is "sealed". 
Func_train And Pathcorner Entity Placement 
How do i know how to align my pathcorner entities? At the moment im using trial and error to correctly place my path corners, its time consuming! 
Knowing the orientation of East in Quark it takes the right lower angle
I could swear the path_corner must be at the lower left corner of the bbox on your pic Maddox. 
In that (sensitive) case my east lies downwards. 
Whats the best way to split a brush? I've used the C tool and sometimes it splits a brush, other times it chops part of the brush off. What do I need to do in order to consistently split the brush?

Entlighted Rogues 
when extracting corners the path_corner stays the same!

@-naitelveni: there's a nice trick you can use to enlighten your windows with this func_train.
Use a window as func_train, and add one path_corner some units before it. Give it the same target and targetname, and wait -1.

When starting the game the window has hardly chance to settle and will turn forward.
If you place a light just before it the front will light up, but as it is replaced now it looks as if the light comes from behind.
A little light before the wall will give it a small shine.

it's in the help document
help->Shaping Brushes->Clipping->Clipping Modes 
Check this post by Pritchard for a better understanding of the clipping tool: 
Overlapping Brushes And Leaks 
Thanks topher, I should have checked that help file out, very handy.

I'm wondering about overlapping brushes - do they "plug leaks" say if I copy and past a bunch of brushes and rotate them so they're all intersecting, then drag a sky brush down to their top most point (and say they intersect with the floor brush) would these overlapping brushes cause a leak? are overlapping brushes generally considered a no-no? 
i don't know yet.

and put a screenshot i didn't understand either ,

i will ask the last question as well.
are overlapping brushes generally considered a no-no?

i think that overlapping brushed don't cause leaks, because leaks are holes. i don't know if they affect the lights.

i'm just cutting brushes, resizing them, merging them, etc,, for now. 
You can overlap brushes, some things benefit more from being clean cut but do not be concerned so much with that. Just be aware of z-fighting with textures.

Clipping is the best way to split a brush in TB. You can press CTRL+ENTER to cycle clip modes. 
Leaks are caused by either an exposure to the void or an entity with its origin in the void.
Overlapping brushes aren't very good practice, mostly because of Z-fighting and increased compile time. It's better if you can avoid it. Doesn't really matter if they're made func_detail though since these are ignored during compile. 
Overlapping brushes aren't very good practice, mostly because of Z-fighting

Doesn't z-fighting only happen with moving brushes (doors & plats) that move to the same coordinates as other brushes? Surely the compiled .bsp doesn't "know" if two world brushes have their faces on the same plane, because what texture is displayed gets resolved during the compile process.

Sorry, my terminology is probably all wrong, but hopefully you know what I mean... 
Go place two brush inside one another, each with a different texture. Compile it, run it in game, and report back to us with your findings. 
I've done it countless times with no ill results.

From a post by necros from 2010 (

i don't know why, but overlapping brushes will cause zfighting in newer engines like q3 and d3. in quake, qbsp will manage to remove overlapping WORLD brushes without any issues. (overlapping func_ or other visible bmodels WILL cause zfighting with other bmodels or the world).
afaik, it doesn't cause any problems once the bsp is in the engine.

i'm not sure where we are atm concerning the compiling aspect of overlapping brushes. i don't overlap because i like to work clean, but it's just personal preference.

(emphasis mine) 
Now go do it in Hammer/Source ;)

Its just a bad habit that you wouldnt want to carry into other game engines. 
Had overlapping brushes for the pillar lights at the end hanging from the ceiling. Other than that it was an excellent map. *nit pick* *nit pick* 
Overlap corners, don't overlap faces.

Also, someone actually referenced something I said as advice! Neat. 
Thanks for all the help all.

I've had an error compiling my current build, not too sure what a "non convex face" is, or how to fix it, but it seems to be the problem:

I tried deleting all the recent brushes I had added, but it still seems to happen. Any idea what I should be looking for so it compiles?

The map is currently wide open, void everywhere - is there a limit to how open a map can be to compile? can I plug gaps / skies later on? or even just make a sky box enclosing the limits of the map? cheers 
Or Read Tooltips 
"CheckFace: Face with too few (a) points at (x y z)"
"CheckFace: Healing degenerate edge at (x y z)"
"CheckFace: Healing point (x y z) off plane by a"

I have no solution for it but maybe readme and check the related polygon in the map file. 
Always Seal Your Map 
The map is currently wide open, void everywhere

with surounding walls, bottom and sky. 
Why would you want to seal your map if you're not running vis? I tend to leave the areas I'm working on open until I'm ready to move on to the next one - I only bother sealing them then.

As to non-convex faces, I'm not sure how you managed to achieve that but an editor shouldn't let you create an invalid brush like that. If you do find the culprit, and you're using a modern editor like J.A.C.K. or TrenchBroom, I'm sure the developers would be interested in seeing it...

Which -options are supported by that compiler? I would see if there's any way to get more information out of it. It's strange that it doesn't provide any coordinates in the error. 
Any of you guys know of an extended runic/metal texture set? I've found a few more in kdmtex.wad but more choice never hurts. I'd especially like to find all the different runic tiles in both glowing red and "switched off" versions (id1 is missing some in each variant). 
I always build fully sealed and error free as I go. I only run a full vis every so often, but I like to know the map will compile properly without errors before putting too much more work into it. Fixing problems is the least fun part of mapping and I wouldn't want them to pile up. 

rmq mqade some runic addons. there are more, idk where to look atm.

rick does it right. 
Thanks Mfx 
Also yeah, so far I've done just like Rick. 
Sealed Map 
provide leaks in early stage.

@mugwump: Might not be the same wad but why not try Runewad
How Often Do You Save As/compile? 
A workflow discussion: I can't nail down a specific time frame but a general estimate is every 10 minutes or so I do a full compile. Yes I vis everything and light everything dozens of times per mapping session. Reason being is my current map is probably about the size of one of the large id levels. Vis'ing takes well under a minute maybe a tad longer. But I work on everything in a map at once. Geometry comes first, then game play and then tweaks to lighting and texturing, then back to gameplay. It's very chaotic way to work. (I know.) I ask this here because I'd like to hear other people's workflow in the hope of getting my act together. I'm not looking to get faster per se but I have a lot of room for improvement and I am always open to new ways of working. As far as saving... I save as much less often. It seems that each new area becomes a save point and if I don something risky that could cause a leak or break logic or expose a bug in the editor, I will do a new version of the map. 
Well I managed to fund the culprit - a single brush seemed to be preventing compiling. I'm not really sure why though. I'll just keep test compiling as I go to make sure I'm staying on track.

Interestingly the non-convex face error comes up even when the map compiles and runs fine... not too sure what the issue is there but it doesn't seem to be "structural" 
If you open the map with a text editor,
you can view the structure of the map file.
A rough trade is looking at the warnings
and see if the brush consists of six sides.

If I want to make really sure why a polygon keeps "troubling"
I change all texture names behind the six polygons with a white texture.
When opening the map in an editor I can see which brush in particulary is causing the error.

Of course I use ericw compilers. 
My workflow changes as I learn more mapping techniques but to answer some of your questions:

I compile whenever I want to test something I just set up. This could be a few monster spawn triggers, to a new lighting placement, or even a single brush I want to see in action! When working with lighting, I often always do -extra4 and -soft to ensure I can see what the final product will look like but sometimes just -soft if a minor change was made.

If I do not have a leak, then I always compile with the -fast VIS just to save time. When I want to do a full playtest (Start to finish) I will do -level 4.

If by save you mean physically save the map file then I do that probably every time I add something that I know will stay for the time being. Ctrl+S is muscle memory and TB handles autosaving for the grievous mistakes.

As I stated above, my workflow changes but I am starting to see grey boxing out large sections is the way to go. Like G1ftmacher said before, if you can get through the basic layout then you can get to the more personal mapping phase.

So my workflow would be at this time:

-Brainstorming, mind layouts, inspiration.
-Basic layout of large sections
-Basic texturing of said sections
-First pass detailing
-First pass lighting
-First pass gameplay
-Detailed texturing
-Major detailing and lighting
-Then it gets to a hodgepodge of all of the above but fine tuning.

I am always curious to see what other people do. 
This method is not everyone, but so far I have liked breaking map into multiple pieces, sealing then right away, layering everything and startjJust testing and make it fun. Naming goes something like this: mapname_areaname_version. Then slowly starting to combine these already tested areas together and make compromises Just then if need to be made.

The biggest problem for me personally has been that, even if you just prototype areas, Quake is not really good at that. Everything basically has to be in certain state, before knowing will it work or not. That is why I find working with separate files more efficient. Normally when I do simple layout (ideas) on paper, I don't know about values what they are going to be at the end. Also if making a hud of your map where many paths connects. You suddenly realize you have gone too far, when focusing on something, you thought was important atm (I like to assume everyone does that at some point), it is impossible to go back and visualize everything again, if there is no backups been made.

So my current method is not to think too much about trying to connect everything right away. I am sure everyone has their own way, it would be interesting to hear more like how people layout their maps? 
So Glad I Asked 
So Bloughsburgh, you have a very structured workflow compared to me. Funny how I work on game play and lighting very close together per section and interchangeably but you segment those out in steps. I am all over the place! Also I meant "Save as" - like a new version of the map - I guess with TB and other modern editors auto save makes this less of a concern. I am used to the old days when one CGS operation could scrap hours of work.

Newhouse, very interesting that you break the map into smaller more manageable chucks. I am a professional video editor and I often use the same technique on an edit. If I am working on a 60 second TV spot with a 5 second montage - I bust that montage out into a separate piece so I can really focus on each frame in the editing program. This might work for me.

This is all fascinating - I hope others will jump in a share their workflow. 
Dunno anything about workflow but my method so far has pretty much been make-it-as-I-go: I work on one room until I think it looks good then I move to the next room. I'm just not the kind of guy to plan ahead, I'm better at improvising. 
Looks like I'm not the only one then. As I think about it, I'm realizing all the issues I am having in my map are because I grey-boxed and planned ahead. 
Sometimes planning ahead is impossible, when working in a situation you're not familiar yet. Maybe after, planning ahead becomes more effective. 
To be clear, there are certain global end goals that I do define beforehand, but the way to achieve them remains purposefully improvisational. This is how I work as an artist, in music as well, as I have found with experience that it allows my creativity to take me to unexpected places. I never made anything good with a very defined plan. 
Vinetexture In AD And Transparency 
theres a vine texture in AD that I want to use in my map. and I also want to try transparency with brushes, like in sock's metal monstrocity. How do I achieve this? 
Set the brush as a func_illusionary. This allows players/monsters to walk through the brush. You can use the flag "alpha" to set transparency. Honestly, just open up the metmon map and check it out yourself! :) all the authors .maps are included with AD. 
I haven't completely greyboxed a map either...but I have a significant visual plan in my mind of how the layout will be. Ultimately I go room by room and wing it to achieve said layout. It almost always deviates from the original. ;) 
Vines in AD are a combination of a texture with palette colour 255 and func_illusionary. They do not use brushes with the alpha key set to achieve that.

Engine support can be a bit of a hangup - mostly DarkPlaces, since the first download offered on the site is from 2014 or so and doesn't have support. Other modern engines and newer versions of DP support transparent textures just fine though. 
I mention "alpha" in conjunction with "func_illusionary" because he asked about transparency, not because I think its required for func_illusionary to work.

I typed my initial response while still in bed. I should've spaced out both ideas. 
The alpha value will not have the desired effect - the entire brush will be transparent. The vines in AD are entirely non-transparent, but the rest of their texture is. That's completely separate from the alpha value of the brush. 
The vine feature is called "fence textures" or "alpha-mask textures".. the texture name also needs to start with a "{" character.

(sidenote: it's possible to make them work in the 2014 build of DarkPlaces, AD does this by supplying .tga files. There is a "fixtrans" command in DP that helps prepare the .tga's) 
Most of the techniques I employ are derived directly from "top tier" maps.

Func_illusionary + alpha is in use in ad_necrokeep to good effect. 
sidenote: it's possible to make them work in the 2014 build of DarkPlaces, AD does this by supplying .tga files. There is a "fixtrans" command in DP that helps prepare the .tga's
I didn't know that. The September 2016 and newer builds, however, do support alpha-masked textures from the get-go and don't need this command.

@Pritchard The DP site at icculus doesn't seem to be maintained these days. The new builds are not in the /download subfolder but in /files (which is, of course, not accessible via the on-screen menus). 
Water Brushes 
i have 15 water brushes. there aren't gaps or intersections between brushes.
i tested the map in quakespasm and i can swim without problem of any kind.
can i expect problems or bugs with what i did?
weird bugs, problem with other engines, something like that.

(i put this message in the QUMP thread, but here is better. i can't erase the other message) 
Compile Problems 
i'm having problems compiling a map, i have everything set in a profile but i keep getting a error "execution of command 'C:(the path of the .bsp compiler)" andt1.bsp' failed (error 267: the directory name is invalid.)" what do i do??? 
Make sure all your directories have names without spaces. 
none of them have spaces :p 
also, when i try to launch it, this "W_LoadWadFile:couldn't load gfx.wad" appears, the engine is Quakespasm 
I assume you are compiling in Trenchbroom. I am willing to bet you have a small typo or hard to find syntax error in the setup. I am pretty experienced and that interface is too much for my tiny brain. I would suggest downloading and using Necros' compiling utility. Just keep it running and pointed to your map and alt-tab to it when you save. It works beautifully and is very easy to use. After you have it setup all you will have to change is the mapname when you Save As... or start a new map. Download it here: 
i don't know what i'm doing wrong. it seems like i've set up everything correctly, it even compiles(it seems), but the .bsp file doesn't appear in the output folder(and in any other folder).

uuuuuh...dumb question of the day..why are surfaces multicolored? 
Ignore That. 
Solved thanks to scampie via twitter.

My .lit file wasnt updated 
i post my config: 
Did your map used to compile? or are you trying to compile it for the first time?
If is did compile, perhaps try deleting some of the more recently added brushes (save a new version first!), particularly any that overlap.
I've had a similair problem where the map wont compile, and each time it was due to a single brush that must have overlapped in a strange way. 
"W_LoadWadFile:couldn't Load Gfx.wad" 
this message is caused by the working directory.
launch the game from a .cmd or a .bat

this line ensures the correct working directory, which is the directory in which the binary file is located.
pushd "%~dp0"

and '%*' pass all the arguments to quakespasm.
quakespasm.exe %*

so, a .cmd script with this two lines
pushd "%~dp0"
quakespasm.exe %* 
i forgot this:

the .cmd file has to be located in the binary folder. quakespasm.exe in my example. 
Yay, Saturday Quake Fever!!! Ah, ah, ah, ah stayin' aliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive!