the new monsters are nice, though i'm still not sure about the gug - it looks kind of strange (maybe it's the head...), but i like the earthquake when it falls to the floor. knight variations are good, too. i can't comment on the base monsters so much, atm.
the chapters monsters rule anyway.
the plasma gun model (or rather its skin) doesn't fit.

necros: deadcity was okay, but i got stuck in one corner behind the stargate teleporter ring and had to noclip out.
marb was great - the doom textures look good, very detailed and all, even though i had the impression they make the map look a little like candy or something?! nice to see some decent rotation again; the lift before the end was nice, too.
one 'monster can't find target' error once.

kell: cool testmaps.
red777 rules! so big and detailed, and soo many clever secrets (of which i only found 5 at first :/)! i wished for more monsters, though.
i can't think of anything else to say - likely this map is just prefect in many ways.

kellcros: in most of your maps 'wallmonster in wall' warnings appear when monsters are spawned. it doesn't affect the gameplay afaik, but still the messages suck. is this related to the spawn code? 

monster can't find target
wallmonster in wall

never got those errors when playing. i assume you're using an engine besides fitz/dp/gl/software. i only tested in fitz, dp and the normal engines.

it's worth looking into, but since non of the engines i have give those errors, i don't know if i can do anything.

if you tell me what engine you were using, i'll d/l it and take a look 

fitzquake, developer mode 

i never used that o.o

guess i should develope, in.. you know... developer mode. :P

still though, why are you playing a mod in dev mode? o.0

you should expect to see extra text in dev mode. if it bugs you, stop playing with it on. 

i added the command to my fitzq shortcut, so i don't have to type it everytime i run the game, for i am contantly developing (errm, well..)
you're right, i could have turned it off, but how would you have learned about the warnings then? :) 

touch� ;) 

When my brain leaks out I usually just wait for the drugs to wear off. My brain seems to be much more docile in this state, and pushing it back in is less of a chore. Still hurts like a bitch, though.
Thanks for the commitment and hard work from both of you guys. 

tis done, I've checked the entities appear in WC, though I haven't actually built a map with it. The hipnotic rotatings are in a separate .fgd, cos it was easier to just do a c'n'p from the hipnotic.fgd
Just waiting for necros so they can be uploaded. I'll email them directly to interested mappers today if it's quicker. 

http://www.planetquake.com/necros/quoth/quoth_FGD.zip
here's the fgd file.

Kell also fixed a few typos on the tutorial... ;)
http://www.planetquake.com/necros/quoth/quoth_tutorial.zip 

I realy enjoyed fighting against the base monsters. Bob is my favorite here. The model and skin are great, also the behavior and final explosion. The Rocketeer and Defender are also cool to fight against. But I wouldn't use them in packs of more then 2 monsters.
The Gug is really well done and again fighting against this monster rocks. The earthquake attack is ok. Somehow I didn't like how the projectiles look like. Maybe it's the color.
Can't say much about the Knights.
The Night Gaunt is a bit boring to fight, but since you can kill it fast it is no problem.
And now to the monsters I don't like.
First the Flying Polyp. This one is realy annoying. It hurts you constantly, takes much time and ammo to kill, it always spots you first (this was my impression) and you can't kill it by surprise. The invisibility is unfair somehow. And I also don't like the skin. The only thing I liked about the Polyp was how it dies. When Lost Chapters pack was released I was reading about this monster and everything sounded cool and interesting, but in-game it is terrible in my opinon. I liked the classic quake Spawn much better.
The Drole - I don't like him. He looks strange, and dies strange. The projectiles are really hard to avoid and do lots of damage. In close combat you don't realy have a chance to survive. Again, when I was reading about this monster first time it looked very interesting with those special triggers and stuff, but in-game it is frustraiting.
The Voreling - I liked Kinns spiders better. 

I completly forget where to download the knave texture set... Could somebody give me the link please ? 

It seems the .zip with all the .defs has been replaced with only the tutorial. Is there anyway I could get the .defs for this, as Spog has told me to put all the files in the gtkr folder, which sounds fishy but I would like to try anyway? Hmm? Please? 

that was me screwing up-- i repackaged the tutorial file, but forgot the def files.

anyway, i reuploaded it with all the files again. 

No one could help me til RPG came along and happily converted the file to a .ent using GomJabbar's handy tool (although I couldn't get it to work) and then placed it in q1.game/id1/ AND BEHOLD THE QUOTH MAPPAGE!

In conclusion, RPG is cool. 

...aye 

if I came out too negative when overviewing the whole quoth thing. I just wanted to say that the whole feeling of good and considered consistent design and art is the feeling that I have about it. 

New stuff.

Bob - total shit, looks out of place, easy but very boring to fight.

New Grunts / Enforcers - fine, skins a bit gay but fun to fight.

Gaunts - nice, detailed model, good to have another flying creature, more fun than scrags.

Polyp - better than old polyp, attack is less annoying. Does very little damage so it's okay you get hit a bit. I like they way they just float around and often don't see you (Ankh you are wrong). Good fun to fight really as the disappearing keeps things tense but not too tough or dangerous.

New Deathknight 1 - fine, decent style and stuff.

New Deathknight 2 - only seen him once, particle effect is neat, can't remember rest.

Gug - pretty good, nice to have another tougher monster. Attack looks a bit crappy but good fun to play against. Earthquake rarely happens but seemed interesting. Model looks is okay, well done, and the head is good, but it looks a bit ape-like. I'd say it's close to being very good if it had been tweaked.

Hammer - whatever.

Triple nail - fine.

Cross - only used it once and did little.

(Nice models BTW).

Plasma - not got it yet. 

Red777 - very fun map, nicely balanced gameplay, good combination of sometimes quiet and sometimes hectic. Very nice that you start in a relatively plain area and then see the cool areas later. Nice sky in AGquake. Layout nice and secrets excellent. Lots of variety and even trick-jumping to get secrets sooner. I got 12/14 - no silver key :(. Lots of great little details, especially looking up in all the secret areas and alcoves. Only complaint is teleporting into the final arena seemed out of place in the layout. Otherwise, r0x0r. Good name too.


Vongug.dem - best demo evar. 1337 falling in lava skills. 

First off, I'd like to compliment Kell and Necros on yet another cool release.

I'm curious though, any plans on releasing the QC source code? 

necros to map in Quark what do i need??? 

-i haven't mapped in quark for like 3 years or something
-i never really knew how to add custom entities then either
-i only used the old 4.07 version of quark, never the new ones. 

:) i will ask in Quark forum maby they can help me out... thks :) 

This is the only map of Quoth that I've played but I really enjoyed its visuals and the copious secrets (found 12/14 on first play through, will go back and look for the other two.) I played on Hard and it was tough but doable except for the end battle. The Gug splash damage did me in before I could get off enough rounds, even with the help of the second MH and RA. I like the Gug; it looks like a Xorn from Dungeons and Dragons but the high splash damage in a cramped arena felt unfair. It was too easy to get cornered and the 'open' area was too small for fighting two at a time.

The Guants are interesting and a good alternate flying enemy. They are deadly in packs.

Red777 had a layout that was a bit confusing but it is a great map and so multi-leveled and intricate. Very 3D and you had to look everywhere for attacks. Nice map, Kell. The supply balance felt good (but not generous) but I did find lots of secrets. I don't know how survivable the map is on hard without hidden goodies to help.

My general impression of the enemies and extras of Quoth is that they are very professional in quality. If anything could be improved, I think the Gug skin could look more refined and menacing if it had that bloody and dirty look that the Quake ogres and shambler have.

A bug that I noticed was that I saved a game before the Gug finale with the RL in my hands. If I changed weapons, the RL was gone for good. Weird and dissapointing.

Quoth is a great package and I hope the user maps start rolling in. 

Only with respect to monsters. Alot of gameplay can be added via the simpler teleportation techniques.

I think you guys should put trees into your next version of Quoth. And func_breakables.
I love everything about this package, by the way. Red 777 and Ne_marb are the shit. Ne_deadcity was pretty good too. Nice old skool theme.
We need a Quoth icon! ... and a quake 4 one, I suppose. 

Wow, this is some top-notch custom content. I've just finished playing through all the maps and playing around with the new entities, so here's a heap of feedback on the new stuff. Monsters:

- Bobs felt kind of irritating at first, but once you get the hang of keeping a lock on them they seem really good fun to fight against. Probably encourage high-speed continual strafing / aiming more than any other Q1 monster, and therefore seem most fun to encounter in places when the player *can* constantly strafe around; the second half of ne_basetest used them really well, I thought. Skin blends well with idbase greens and the explosion when it dies is satisfyingly crunchy, though I was surprised the explosion doesn't hurt you at all; maybe a very small amount of splash damage (e.g. like the Polyp death) would have been fitting there.

- Rocketeers add some nice variety to the base lineup, and the fact that they fire weak homing rockets instead of just rockets makes them decently interesting to fight against. The modified skin is nice, though the red colour does look a bit garish against the standard Quake base texture sets. I guess it's preferable that they look distinctly different from normal Grunts even at a distance, though...

- Defenders seemed like the least exciting of the new monsters aesthetics-wise, but being a base Ogre they fill a nice gap in the standard monster lineup and seem pretty solid. Having them use the DBS as a sort-of-melee attack was a nice design idea.

- Vorelings rock. They play a role that no other Q1 monster really does and play it very well.

- Flying Polyps are in more or less the same boat as Bobs: they seem really irritating to fight against at first because they require you to do so much more moving and aiming than the standard Q1 beasties, but are quite fine when you get the hang of them.

- Death Guards were probably my least favourite out of the new guys, mainly because they didn't seem that much different from standard Death Knights in how the player has to tackle them. They became more fun when I realised that you could just jump over their projectile attacks while running straight towards them, which gives the carnage some nice flow.

- Death Lords, on the other hand, seemed generally more interesting: they've got decently hard to avoid attacks, but not so much health that killing them becomes a chore. Good job.

- Nightgaunts have a shockingly nice model / skin and sound effects, and the fact that they don't try and get up close to molest you gives Nightgaunt combat a different enough feel from other combats. I thought they'd possibly have been better with less health than they've got though, because although killing them with any weapon without being hit is usually easy, it invariably takes a while if you don't want to waste your high-end ammo, and can get slightly dull when there's more than one of them. Still a top-notch monster, though.

- Droles rock. They're sort of like Shamblers would be if Shamblers were always threatening and not unfair when placed in wide-open areas with no cover. Like Death Guards, it's also nice that you can jump over their projectile attack.

- Gugs seem generally great too, and they're filling up a nice "sub-boss" role that no other single monster quite does at the moment. Not sure I like all the Gug-then-double-Gug action in the maps and test maps though, as double-Gug seems like it can end up as instant death quite easily if the player doesn't handle it very skilfully. Like the other harder-than-your-average-monster monsters in Quoth they seem much more agreeable when you've encountered them a few times and worked out how to deal with them best, though. The earthquake attack has a great OH SHIT factor, especially the first time it hits you.

- Vermis I'm not so fond of. Model / animations / sounds are nice and professional, but actually fighting a Vermis seems kind of dull; in all the Vermis combats I've seen so far you just end up ducking back and forth behind cover / out of the way of the spore attack, systematically unloading your most powerful weapons into it until it drops - which makes it feel kind of like a normal enemy with a huge amount of health, rather than a boss in the true sense. If it had more variety - e.g. if its tactics / attacks changed halfway through the battle, like a boss in an old-school shoot-'em-up or something - it'd probably interest me more. Still looks the nuts, though.