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Who Most Old-School Here?
I can't really claim to being particularly Old-School, I used to play Quake in 1997 on a P133 with 16mb RAM and Windows 95. I think. It was a long time ago. Err, it WAS a long time ago! I have only one map which I managed to salvage from some floppys, which I will never post, it's got three rooms and a corridor, and loads of trigger_once messages which make me laugh!

But really I only entered into this community last year! And my only other experience of mapping was for Witchaven 2, using the Duke Nukem Build engine.

(Gratuatous shots)

Hehe - I actually bought my copy of Quake and Witchaven 2 at the same time, from Cash Converters. I remember at the time pretty much all of the mods and tools I had came from PC game magazine CDs. And to think I downloaded the Bioshock demo the other day, just to see how my PC handled it (!)

Hehe - Anyhoo, I know some of you guys must have some pretty cool more public old-school tie-ins n' stuff. Reminisce / fight about it here!

Also somebody should be eventually humiliated / named as the most old school Quaker here!

(a true old school person would never post on a thread like this ?)
Frib is the most oldschool
Vondur is the oldest (58)
Shambler is the oldest female (13) 
Oh Yeah 
The Witchaven 2 shots are not my maps. My maps sucked! It was just meant to remind people of the olden days, when dinosaurs ruled the earth and my dad was a young boy.... 
The Oldest Of The Old School 
are all working in german IT now 
Duke Nukem - to much fucking time ago...

Doom2 - to much fucking time ago...

Quake Dm from fev.1997 untill 2002
Quake Single Player 2002/2008 
You can just about claim to be nu-skool, lol.

CZG is probably right (apart from the female bit....he's been after my ring too many times). I think Bal is pretty old skool too.

(Old skool for the community that is, rather than gaming). 
Ah, summer again... 
What am I, chopped liver? YOU SAID YOU LOVED ME! 
OK, Well What Would You Say Comprises Old School 
Are there two categories here? Or more? (refering to being old-school that is, not age) 
I am definitely not the MOST old-school person here, I have been a regular to different QMap/Qboard/etc iterations and #terrafusion since 1998. 
I would you are only old-school if your mind is..... It is like music, if you find it "too loud", it's because you're too old...

Anyway, I played Doom, Doom2, and Quake on its release in the 90ies, so am I old school ? I don't know, maybe mapping for Quake make me old school, though... I don't think I am old-school, and clearly I don't care: I just want a have fun in mapping and playing other mappers' maps ! 
I go back as far as Quake/Quake2. I didn't really start playing games until a year before Quake 2 was released. I sort of considered gamers as socially retarded losers, until I started playing games myself - that was when it dawned on me that I was also a socially retarded loser.

Even then, it was many years after that before I bothered having a go at mapping. 
Fairly old school because I still play and make maps for Quake 1. 
What czg and Lun said (Sleep still posts occaisionally tho, but he works with headshot iirc)

I thought Sham was fairly old timey tho, I'm sure you were reviewing before I discovered worldcraft.

Scampie is surprisingly old timey too, damn shrimp has been around forever. (And iirc was the one who posted the QBoard is dying thread ;)

Anyway, this thread is somewhat pointless epeening (and given I think it spawned from a post I made, I'm very, very sorry), the only useful thing I can think of is; does anyone have archives of QBoard/PnF/QMap lying around? I know that the QBoard archive was uploaded by headshot a while back, but then it disappeared again :(

Oh, and Willem = Taskmaster? 
Yeah, Taskmaster. 
That was too fast a reply man, go work on Gears2 and send me a copy kthxbai. Completed the first one too many times to replay now :(

(Oh, and less caves pls ;)

But yeh, in that case Willem is scarily old school too. 
Frib and Shambler have been 'here' the longest.

And yes, I did post that thread. I also did this: 
kek, think I missed that at the time, genius.

From that screen tho, does the QMap cafe press store still exist? I still want a mug 
Well Old... 
...programming my first game on a Sinclair ZX81 with 1K of RAM: vertical scroller using letters of the alphabet as falling 'spaceships'

...using Prestel 
Quake Didn't Start Mapping 
until '03. Mapped for Thief in '01. Did some machinima for Deus Ex (thanks Willem, UnrealEd 2 was very helpful for that) in between. Before that, back in the 80's when I had an Amiga and an Atari ST, there were few commercially available games, but there were magazines available at the time with pages of game code. I would type in the code only to find that most games ran too slow to be fun. With that problem in hand I taught myself assembly to eek out some speed in that shit. One game was a Time Bandits clone. Quite amusing. 
Also, I Recall 
when Wolfenstein came out, I was heavily into fantasy RPG's like Ultima 4&5&6. I had an elitist attitude towards shooters at the time, and regarded them as being too simplistic. 


Was a tie between that and the standard logo mug, but I like the idea of getting a mug with a domain that is now camped by a sales page 
Ahh, Qmap 
it brings a tear to the eye! :)

I got my 1st pc in 1996 and got connected to the net in 97' ish I think.

I think duke nukem 3d was the first thing I ever installed on my pc, then Quake of course, and only in that order because I had the duke 3d disks on me at the time the pc arrived :)

Yeah, floppy disks, I am old-skool! 
Scampie you fucking legend, I've been wanting a replacement Electric Fish mousepad for ages and I couldn't remember where the hell that site was...

And look at that "who's who" shirt! (Go for the larger image option, choose the back and then go ZOOM IN... !) 
Oh God That's Creepy. That Is So Creepy. 
I made a couple crappy Q1SP maps in 1997, but soon gave up. I didn't go back to Quake until after Heretic II died. I still remember when Shambler refused to review my first version of Phantasmal Garrison back in 1999. heh. I can see why too. 

That Fish Thing 
Frib gets the prize for The Most Old School, because he made the Electric Fish board.

That lead on to Qboard, which turned to Qmap, which (after a few versions) eventually lead to func. You can see Frib's board as the first iteration of the current community.

Even before the Fish board though, I think the community was mostly centered around review sites (and actual Quake servers), including crash, Matt Sefton and Talon.

And I don't see how Willem counts, seeing as he changed his nick and all. Yeah. 
vigil you forget peej n frib which was our site before qmap 
But it wasn't a forum as such. 
Frib, you are a fucking legend. I mean, seriously... 100+ hours in TF2 as an engineer? 
Vigil, you forgot Ramshackle. 
No love for MPQ? I hate you all! 
my first released map was in 97, so i guess that makes me pretty old school. Though i didn't really join the qboard/qmap community until it was hosted at, which makes me kind of late to this group. Before that I was part of the THRED mailing list, which was basically an email version of the type of community we have here (mapping help, beta testing, general bullshit, etc.) 
My First Maps Were For Loderunner (1983), Bitches 
(I'm old.) 
Was great. Regenerating bricks - says it all.

What were the bad guys supposed to be again? Cyborgs? I think it was either that or Dr Who Cybermen where I first heard the concept. 
You are only as old as the youngest woman who lets you bang her which makes me about 26 at the present time :) 
And I don't see how Willem counts, seeing as he changed his nick and all. Yeah.


Started posting at the Electric Fish messageboard and then followed the discussions through their various iterations to here.

I'm always surprised by how many of the same names are still in #terrafusion 
Lets See 
i was downloading stuff off SPQ (matt sefton's site) and talon's after quake came out. Then once spq sort of closed down after q2 and unreal came out I left. Then came back after somehow stumbling onto shambler's site and basically downloading a few years worth of levels :)

still here. 
Ya Bro 
haha yeah i remember spq, talons, crash. awoq and awoq2 were my favs. still have all those website archived on my comp :D

lol tronyn, yeah shambler refused to review my first release too, he said he was offended i even suggested he'd review it. i held a grudge ever since, lol, even though looking back now it was a piece of shit episode. i can't believe some guys put out such good first releases - it took me a good dozen or so maps before i actually started doing anything good.

that was way back in 98, though i do remember playing carmen sandiago and spear of destiny :D 
Did you get my mail? If not please send me one so I can send to the right address (tried that one[Kona]
What's with Ethereal Hell? 
Yeah Aye 
negke: i know mate, where the bloody hell is my website? i just clicked it today and it's gone! it could have been like this for the last 6 months for all i know. i better email telefragged...

spirit: um, yeah, that's one of my email addys. it should work aye. maybe send it again?

hmmm i just logged in for the first time since 2004, hehe. 
now go make a speedmap [Kona] :)to the Quake aniversary!!! 
Im a fan of your work. Carved in flesh and Guncotton are my faves!!! Thanks for the inspiration!!! :P

PS What Trinca said... 
pjw was literally mapping before I was born. -_-;; 
Is your father. 
Holy Shit 
and Zwiffle is my bitch!!! 
Zwiffle, you can destroy the Emperor. He has foreseen this. It is your destiny. Join me, and together we can rule the galaxy as father and son. 
cheers ricky.

actually i just remembered i did some maps for doom2... that must be going back a ways!

i've long forgotten how to use worldcraft, lol. haven't touched it since the end of 2003, 4.5 years ago! the only thing that sparked my interest was the possible involvement in mindcrime's big project after nehahra. i guess that will never see the light of day though :o 
I'm So Old School... 
We didnt even have editors, we just wrote .map files with notepad! 
Now That Is Hardcore 
I remember playing 1 or 2 maps that were made with a text editor (some maps by DaBug I think), and I was really impressed. It must have taken a fair bit of brain power and dedication to produce a playable map of any sort, let alone a half-decent one, without a graphical editor. 
I remember that whole phase happening before real editors appeared. I took one look at that and said, "No thanks". :) 
Anyone Know What Tools Id Used To Make Quake? 
I doubt they used a text editor to make the maps, although I guess it's possible....

I remember reading they used p300mhz machines with 64 mb of ram and thinking "oooh!" 
They used QuakeEd which is what QERadient was derived from. 
Speaking Of Old Machines 
I remember having a like 50 meg harddrive, I had just finished a level (aerowalk) and was going to plug in my headset, suddenly there was a static sound *bzzzt* *silence* My harddrive had gone into brick mode :P

Lost everything and had to redo the map from scratch. It improved greatly the second time around though :)

Lesson learned, always do a quick draft first of any dm level to get the basic layout and flow mapped out, throw it away and do it right :) 
They surely had no 300MHz machines for Quake. Rather something from the 75-133MHz range. 
Lesson learned, always do a quick draft first of any dm level to get the basic layout and flow mapped out, throw it away and do it right :)


Plus, if you know you're going to throw it out and redo it right, you can just map in a box and not care about overlap and gaps and all variety of technical ugliness and you can crank out multiple layouts, versions, and changes in a matter of minutes.

It deactivates your inner technician and frees up the artist to throw pigment at the wall as desired...

Also, I'm with Willem--no text editing for me. I wanted to make maps, but was/am way too lazy for that kind of tediousity. :) 
Text Editors 
Do you know, I never believed anybody actually composed whole maps using text editors. Editors were available from the start so I cannot understand anyone doing it willingly, Utter massok... mascichi... massuc... nutters! 
Yeah, the 'ol map-in-a-box is a really good technique.

I would add though that it might be a good idea to do a room or two (perhaps separately ) early on to flesh out the style of the map both texture wise and architectually since it can inspire stuff in the general layout (even though you're not filling out all the details in the beginning)

Stuff like trim's doorways, general theme etc 
You Could 
argue that the theme makes you think in certain directions, thus making your layout a tiny bit worse than if you would be free to think in all directions ;-)

It helps a lot with detailing later though :( 
Editors were available from the start

Not from what I can remember or maybe I'm wrong. I know that id released the tools after a few weeks and then people starting releasing editors some time after that but it wasn't from the start at all. id's editor only ran on NextStep at the time (written in Objective-C) so it certainly wasn't a simple matter of recompiling it on Windows.

argue that the theme makes you think in certain directions, thus making your layout a tiny bit worse than if you would be free to think in all directions ;-)

It helps a lot with detailing later though :(

I like this discussion. :) I think you're right. Theme can be somewhat limiting but I'm a sucker for graphics. I can't really work on a level unless I know what it's going to look like. I need to lay down at least a medium level of detail so I can envision what's going on and see how it fits together.

I'm learning to do the rough shelling stuff first as a result of how we work on Gears of War, but it's harder in Quake for me since the simple shell is generally the final architecture as well. :) 
i dunno, is there such a thing as layout in abstraction? In general having a theme like "city like level" "mountain-level", "underwater base" etc will need to be tightly integrated with the layout and architecture and isnt something you simply "paint" on in the end

Another thing I can recommend btw, is mapping out a couple of "trick" areas separately. In general layout should be done as whole but these areas tend to give a level it's character so they're worth getting right first and then connecting them with the rest of the layout 
That's true but I think the point is that once you have a basic understanding of how wide your hallways are, how large your door frames are, etc. you shouldn't get hung up on visuals and just lay out areas quickly so you can iterate the gameplay with minimal hassles. 
After A Few Weeks... close enough to the start for me.

But there's an ineresting point, which was the first freely available Quake editor? The first BspEditor that I have is dated 12/96 (v0.67)and that was not the first editor I had been playing with. I remember Thred, Stone, QuArK, The Forge (09/96).

Who can place the earliest i.e. closest to the June 96 release of Quake? Shambler, you must have been a spotty oik around that time, you must know. 
A few weeks is forever when you're a Doom level designer wanting to make Quake maps. Believe me, every day was torture. 
Spotty oik, haha. I was relatively late to Quake itself, 1997-98. 
Only DM Layouts 
a theme like "city like level" "mountain-level", "underwater base" etc will need to be tightly integrated with the layout

in dm you simply can't apply such a strong theme to good success, unless the gameplay is made to play great in the kind of architecture the theme implies anyways.

I wasted years trying to detail my maps within such a nice theme always getting stuck at one point or the other ;-) 
preacher_ where is waterwalk? :) 
Sorry, but that shows what effect you have had on the community - it's like you've been here forever :-) 
Re: Waterwalk 
>preacher_ where is waterwalk? :)

the layout sucked, unfortunately, and had to be scrapped 
Man, I remember reviewing Aerowalk for MPQ back in the day. Great memories! 
;) you will make something much better soon for sure :) 
Hehe, I'm working on it :) Then again, people seem to redo aerowalk for me on every platform imagineable so perhaps it's not necessary ;) Quake Live soon, wanna bet? :))

Willem: was it a good review? can't find it 
Aerowalk from you and Skull from Zaka are my favorit duel that arent id maps! 
"Willem: was it a good review? can't find it"

I believe it was 5/5. I'm talking about the old, old MPQ when I first started it up as Taskmaster. I don't think those archives survived the many ownership changes of that site once I handed it off. 
Aerowalk from you and Skull from Zaka are my favorit duel that arent id maps! there are many classic none id duel dm maps, especially from such dm guru mappers as frib and headshot, pkeg/fribdev my favorite forever 
zed from vondur is pretty sic also 
spy of course there are a lot of excelent maps... but those two are the ones i played more online! 
i'd like to watch your dm demos, i'm sure its somethin' spectacular 
when i get home i will sent you one ;) 
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